 This is Think Tech Hawaii, Community Matters here. Aloha and welcome to Hawaii Together. I'm Kayleigh Akina and we're here on the Think Tech Hawaii broadcast network. In Hawaii we have the lowest voter turnout in registration in the nation. And we wonder why is that the case? Is it the surf is so beautiful, the sky is so lovely that we're not interested at all in politics? Well, I'm not sure, but somebody here has kind of changed the impression of what a typical citizen in Hawaii is all about. She's somebody who's decided to go beyond her private life and get involved in the public world and her name is Natalie Iwasa. I admire this lady. I first saw her at a few hearings and I said, you know, that's an ordinary person in one sense, but an extraordinary citizen in another sense. And so I asked her to join us on the program today and I'd like you to get to know her. And welcome to the program. Thank you so much, Kayleigh. Well, you know, when I first learned of you, I learned of you through a nickname called Bike Mom. And that told me there was something about you that took you from being a mom into a public figure to some extent. Want to tell us a little bit about that? Sure. I started attending neighborhood board meetings and there was a police officer there who knew that I rode my bike. And he called me the bike lady and I said, well, you know, really I'm the bike mom because I have two children and I'm really concerned about them riding bikes and riding bikes together in general. So your concerns started in your own family. You had children and you were concerned about their safety, their welfare, their opportunity to ride their bikes and so forth. What issues came to mind that drove you to get involved publicly on that issue? Well, and at that time it was a lack of facilities for bicyclists. And I think we needed more education about what bicyclists should be doing and is allowed to do. Well, you've come a long way since then because I've seen you in pretty high places. Just testifying in front of government commissions, testifying down at the city and county and at the state and you've been involved in some pretty hotly contested issues. Before we get to them, can you tell us a little bit about what you think citizens should be doing? Because you see, most of us are trying to make a living here in Hawaii. Most of us who have families have an extraordinary amount of work to do ourselves, sometimes two or three jobs per family. And yet you found it was necessary to get out of being just a private citizen. Why is that? Well, you know, first of all I want to say that it's a little challenging. I have a family as well and I'm the breadwinner and so it's not like I just have all this amount of time that I can go out and testify. But it gradually grew for me and I would say that it's just important if you have a passion to get out there and that's kind of how it started for me. You know, living here in Hawaii, there aren't a lot of people who do get engaged. As I mentioned in my introductory comments, we have one of the lower voter turnouts in the nation. Why do you think that is here in Hawaii? I think part of it goes to the fact that people think that they're not being heard. They do try to testify and then they get cut off or the bill doesn't go the way that they expect or they just feel like they're not being heard. Well, what I hear you saying is that it's not just complacency. It's not laziness. It's a sense of discouragement to some extent. When you say not being heard, there is some sense that public officials just don't really pay attention to the public. I think in a lot of cases that's the case, that people do try and they just give up after a while. You started with the issue of bikes and bike lanes and all of that. I remember once seeing you actually ride your bike down the Kalaniana Ole Highway, a lot has changed in the last few years. What are some of the accomplishments you can take pride in in terms of your advocacy? Well, not to focus so much on bicycling, but the first thing that I feel really proud about is that there was a guardrail on Kalaniana Ole Highway. It was very narrow for bicyclists and pedestrians and I brought it to the DOT's attention. They came out and looked at it and said, you're right, we can move this over. That really was an enlightening moment for me that I could actually have an impact on something in my community. That may sound small to some extent, but that's incredible because we often talk about the fact that government seems unresponsive, but here you got involved and government responded to you. What issues have followed since then? What's one that has taught you a lot in the process of getting involved? Sometimes it's not just a matter of what is actually done, but maybe what isn't done. For example, I testified one time on a bill at City Council where they wanted to expand the area for noise. It's currently 30 feet. If a car drives by and they have a loud stereo, it's 30 feet and they can be sited. This bill, they wanted to expand it to 100 feet and I said, well, wait a minute, you know, if you're talking about pedestrians and bicyclists who aren't inside a vehicle and you're going to allow a vehicle to have more noise, you know, that's not a good thing and the bill was shelved. So sometimes it's just stopping the things that are not good. You have a passion for keeping Hawaii beautiful and keeping open spaces beautiful and allowing our population to continue traditional practices like farming and so forth. That's an issue you got involved in quite heavily in your own neighborhood once. Right. So some people might be aware of Kami-Linui Valley, where the farmers are. It's back past the post office and I used to take my son through there on the bike and the grass was really tall and it was hard to get through. There was a petition going around for the cemetery back there and actually at that point I felt, oh, you know, somebody else is taking care of it and then about six months later I read it went through and that was really a wake-up call for me because I realized then that I didn't do my part and perhaps if I had, if I had said, you know what, this is really important to us to keep this open, you know, maybe somebody would have changed their mind on the decision making and that. So there was a point you recognize which you said, well, somebody else can do this or somebody else will do it and then you discovered nobody else stood up and did that. So how did that affect you? Well, that's actually when I became quite involved in political, not political, but public meetings attending the neighborhood board and then that led to going to city council and there were measures that came up that were related to that. Well, in that issue in particular we often see people pit against each other on two extreme sides, development and environment. Is it really that simple? Are people really divisible into two categories like that? You know, I don't think so. I think a lot of these issues are really quite complex and what we have to think about is balancing, you know, we need to keep our open spaces but we also have to realize that where our population is growing. People want to keep their families here so we need to make sure that we have the housing available and so it's a question of do we keep those spaces open or do we open them to development? How do we have that conversation, you know, to strike the balance between open spaces and the need for housing and that's especially critical in your part of town, East Oahu. Yeah, well, I think a lot of it starts with paying attention to things like our Oahu general plan or in the case of East Oahu, the East Honolulu Sustainable Communities Plan where it basically outlines the priorities the community has. Where do we want to have our shopping centers? Where do we want to have our parks? What kind of transportation do we want to have available? So those meetings are open to the public. That's our chance to go in there and say, you know what, we really want this over here or we don't really care for that over here. And the DPP, the Department of Planning and Permitting, then puts those comments together and they change the plan and it goes through several different hearings before it gets finalized at the City Council. What I hear you saying is that a lot of good work has already been done in the planning process and goals for the community, this input from the community and so forth has already been collected and gathered, but oftentimes our public officials diverge from that. And you're there kind of as a watchdog, so to speak. Yes, we have to be really very careful about the final product and there's an example actually in Hawaii where the board was presented with a development and, you know, we're given some nice drawings and that kind of thing, pictures. And so the board took a position and then it went to the City Council. Well, in that interim process, we, the board, didn't really pay attention as much as we should have to the final product. So the resolution passed and what happened was the development was not as we had pictured it. And the reason was we missed a little line in the resolution and it allowed something to happen that we hadn't even thought about. So we have to really be careful about that kind of thing. Absolutely. And you mentioned something which is part of your biography. You're a member of your neighborhood board and with that, I'd like to give a little disclaimer to our viewers today, just as Natalie is a member of the neighborhood board and I am a trustee in the Office of Hawaiian Affairs. The views that we express on today's program are purely our own and don't represent any institution or agency. With that said, we can go on now and say interesting things. But I want to ask you, how is it that you got so involved that you ultimately ran for your neighborhood board and won? Well, yeah, I just kept going. It's kind of funny because I would keep going to the meetings and there was a project on Mariners Ridge, again, traffic related. And I had gone up to the ridge and I knocked on every door and I said, you know what, they're doing this petition and they're doing this project and I petitioned and I presented it to the board and there were other issues and I was then called the 16th board member because I just kept going and going and going. So as a non-board member, you were actually doing the work of a board member. You were watching the community. You were advocating for good solutions. You were testifying before your board and so they called you the 16th board member. Yes. Well, congratulations. Now, tell me a little bit about what it took to decide to actually run for the board, the neighborhood board. You know, a lot of times we don't understand what that is. We understand in a sense what a PTA is at the school and what church committees are and so forth. But in a real way, being on the neighborhood board is actually being part of the political process. Yes, it is. And you know, for me actually that part of it wasn't that difficult because I had gone so many times. I knew all of the board members. I talked to them regularly after the meetings and so it was just kind of a natural process. But I know some people are a little hesitant about trying to do that kind of thing. They see something going on. They're not happy with it and want to get involved. And it can be a little challenging and, you know, what do I do here? How do I handle this? But you rose to the challenge and you put your hat into the rink. Yes. Well, that's great. I'm sure that in addition to the satisfaction of seeing things change, you've received some criticism. You've received some opposition from people who may not want those changes. Yeah, that happens too. Sometimes, you know, I mean, it's just like everything. We need to compromise. But some people are very focused on what they want to see. And so they'll say, you know, you should have done this or, you know, that was wrong. But I think it really behooves us all to remember that we have our own opinions and we are working with other people and other, you know, perspectives, other information. And so we need to consider that there are different ideas. Very good. And as you said earlier, strike a balance. Yes. Well, we're going to take a quick break. But when we come back, I want to talk about how your day job or at least your experience and knowledge from your day job as a CPA accounted influences your ability to do public policy. In particular, you're a certified fraud examiner. I'm going to ask you about our Honolulu Rail, OK? OK, all right, thank you. So don't go away. Natalie has testified on many infrastructure and rail related issues. And you're going to get her insights as a professional as she brings her professional expertise or lens to look at public policy. I'm Kili Akina. We're on the Think Tech Hawaii broadcast network. And we'll be right back after this. We have this crazy thing going on today. I was just walking by. And all these DJs and producers are set up all around the city. I just walked by and I said, what's happening, guys? They told me they were making music. So we do it. Welcome back to Hawaii together on the Think Tech Hawaii broadcast network. I'm Kili Akina and delighted to be with you today. I have a friend, Natalie Iwasa, who has become very much involved in public affairs, political issues, and so forth, both as a member of her neighborhood board and simply as an advocate for what is good and makes common sense. I'm going to ask her a little bit about how her profession gives her insights into her activism work. She's a certified fraud examiner. And as soon as I learned that about her, I thought, oh my goodness, the state and the city and county definitely need her. And this is a time in which perhaps she's got some tools that she can apply when she looks at public policy. Let's welcome back Natalie Iwasa. Natalie, so CFE, certified fraud examiner. What exactly is that? Certified fraud examiner. Well, that's somebody who actually looks at their different types and looks at the details and sees that there are things that are happening that are not right and tries to determine things like what happened, how was money taken if that's the case. Can we recover anything and determine what the losses are if that's the case? There are a lot of different types of services provided by CFE's. Well, you know that in my work with the Grassroot Institute, we've paid close attention to the Honolulu Rail. Not so much to oppose the rail, but to point out that there needs to be a better accounting for the money spent. And I don't need to lecture you on what has taken place in a project that should have cost $2.7 billion at the start. And now we know it will cost well over $10 billion. And we have much more to expect in terms of cost increases and so forth. Just as an accountant, with that general tracking of the money, what does that tell you? Just makes me wonder why and what is really happening behind the scenes to make it increase so much. What are some of the things that you've noticed as you've taken a look at the Honolulu Rail? You know, it's kind of funny because I always thought that the information we were being provided was correct. I just made that assumption, which was grossly wrong. Isn't that interesting? Because in your profession, you're supposed to make the other assumption. Well. And in real life, however, like most of us as citizens, we kind of trust our government. Right. And so I was looking at a resolution. This was for the initial funding of the bond, the approval for a bonding. And I was adding up the numbers, and I'm like, wait a minute. This doesn't add up. And it's such a fundamental thing to have a column of numbers that is off. And it was $140 million off. So from that point forward, I always looked at the numbers and added them up and then checked references and that kind of thing. I found a number of mistakes and errors. What are some of the problems with trying to manage such a big project? A lot of times, the people who are managing it are our own government officials and so forth aren't necessarily accountants. They're not necessarily engineers. They have political interests. How does that affect their ability to manage a project that fundamentally requires a high level of accounting? Well, I think it's challenging for one thing. And you may recall that even Mayor Caldwell hired a consultant to come in and help, because this was the point where it was increasing. I think it had just gone to about $5.6 billion. And he actually had to have somebody come in and help advise him, because it is challenging to keep track of all those numbers. And I think, really, it's incumbent upon us, the people who understand these types of things, to take a look at this and say, hey, wait a minute. You guys need to look at this. What are some of the ways that you have served kind of like a watchdog with the rail or other infrastructure projects? Well, I've gone to the heart meetings on quite a number of occasions. And when I hear them say something that is inconsistent with maybe something that they told the legislature or the city council, I say, I bring it up. And I think that's one of the most important things that I can do. Again, the speaking out. Now, is that because you are naturally an extrovert who wants to stand behind a podium or a microphone and shout and be noticed and known? No, I don't think so. In fact, I was really quite shy coming out of high school. But doing this actually makes me a better person, I think. It goes back to what you and I discussed a little bit in the first segment. And that has to do with what the role of a citizen should be. What do we need to do to be better citizens here in Hawaii? I think one of the things, even though it's challenging for us to keep track of our time, our family balance things out, is to actually pay attention to what's happening. Listen to the news. Read the newspaper. If you have online news, whatever it is, just pay attention to what's going on. Well, you as a citizen figured out that the numbers weren't adding up for the Honolulu Rail. And that's not because you were a public official, not because you were privy to any inside knowledge and so forth. It's simply because you knew how to add and subtract and compare two columns with each other. And that led you to start speaking out. Now, you have an idea that you're advocating now that will empower citizens to be able to voice their concerns, their suspicions, and so forth. It's a hotline, isn't it? Oh, right. So yeah, I've heard a lot of things. Even, I think it was Senator Kim had said, people came to her and their supervisors on rail wanted them to do these things that they felt weren't right. And so I've been trying to get Hart and the city to implement a fraud tip hotline. And it doesn't even have to be called fraud tip hotline. It can just be tip hotline. But something that allows people to anonymously call in, that they can give information, get feedback that somebody's following up on it, and then there can be an investigation if needed. But I think this is really important because there are so many things that people are commenting on the side that things are going on. And people, do you feel, are they afraid if they're working for one of the agencies or working for the government, afraid to come out and actually say, I see something that's wrong? Well, yes. I mean, retaliation, negative consequences. I think that's a very real concern for anybody who might call in. And I think that's why we don't have people saying things more publicly, because they're just really concerned that either they, their livelihoods, their families might be impacted negatively. Now, as we mentioned earlier, you're a certified fraud examiner. There have been many calls for auditing the rail. And sometimes that term audit is so broad, someone can say, sure, I'm all for auditing the rail, but not really agree with somebody else who's saying, no, we really need an audit. Can you tell us a little bit about audits and what kind of audit is needed for the rail? Sure. So there are actually, first of all, different types of audits. There's the management audit, which is like the city auditor did a couple of years ago. There are financial audits, which heart is subject to every year. And then there are just investigations. So with respect to the rail, I think really what we need is an investigation, a forensic investigation, which. Now, when you say forensic investigation, you're using a term forensic that isn't necessarily a technical auditing term, but one that is often used and not really explained. So you being the accountant, help me to understand what would be the substance of a truly forensic audit? Well, basically, if you have a fraud tip hotline, and you have ideas of where there might be some questionable actions going on, whether it be in the contracting side, whether it be something else, then you focus in on those types of areas. And so it doesn't necessarily cover the entire spectrum of what is happening with rail, but focusing in on those areas and then really digging into them and checking things like emails and documents and interviewing people. So it's much broader than a regular financial audit. And then once you find something, then you branch off. I think our state auditor, last year when they passed that law to extend the taxes, they gave the state auditor subpoena powers. And so that's an important component, too, because then people realize, well, I have to comply. I can't just hide back and not be available. You have a nose for fraud, waste, and abuse. What is your nose telling you about the Honolulu Rail project? Well, I have to be a little bit careful. Of course. Because people need to understand that one of the major components of fraud is intent. So while people have suspicions of things going on, until we know that something was deliberately done, it's not just a mistake. We can't or we shouldn't use that term fraud. But there have been a number of things that I've come across that I really question. Things like change orders or even presentations to the board where I say, well, wait a minute. You guys don't have this information here. And then by the time I get it, months have gone by, and they've moved on. So there are just a lot of questions, I think, with respect to the rail project. Well, I hope you get the hotline so if citizens can give more information. And I hope we are able to get an appropriate kind of audit of the rail. We've got a minute left, Natalie. You have a vision for our great city of Honolulu. Could you share just part of that vision? How would you like to see us functioning? Well, I think what we really need to focus on is people being more involved and raising the level of trust in the government. We've had issues with our Honolulu Ethics Commission and the executive director stepping down. So many things have come forward in the last couple of years, our chief of police under investigation. Just lots of different examples of things where people have put faith in government and then had it crumble out behind them or below them. And so if I had an option or a voice in saying what we should focus on, that would be it. Well, I hope your voice grows. You certainly do have a voice and I want to thank you for being an engaged citizen and a leader as well. Thank you, Natalie. Thank you, Kaylee. My guest today, Natalie Iwasa, goes from being the bike mom to being engaged community activist, making a difference here in Honolulu and in the state of Hawaii. I hope you'll get to know her better. I'm Kaylee Iakina on Hawaii Together on the Think Tech Hawaii Broadcast Network. We'll see you next time. Aloha.