 And artists follow her label Secret Hit Songwriting Formula just to show the label that it doesn't work. Jokes on her, it became her biggest song to date during millions of streams. Let's hear her talk about that. Oh, but we do have to mention my song, You Plus Me. Yes. My biggest song. So what happened? I was so tired of them ignoring me and saying, yeah, just keep writing, just keep writing. I was like, what are you looking for me to write? And I literally said this. I called Aton and I was like, what are you looking for me to write? Tell me exactly what to do and I will do it. And he sends me this recording that he's not supposed to send me of Mike Karen talking about the exact formula of how to write a hit song. So I listened to it for 30 minutes and I sat down for 30 minutes and I wrote You Plus Me and I sent it to the label. As in like, suck me off. This is the worst song ever. Fuck you. They're like, this is the best song. Michael's like, congratulations. You wrote a really good song. And unfortunately he was right. That shit gives me hundreds of thousands of streams per month. I don't know what it is. I do love it. I do. It's a great song, but I would have never, ever wrote it unless I had been trying to follow this formula that Mike made. All right, let's stop it here first and foremost. Right? Obviously, like everybody. I would love to hear this formula as well. Why? Because she just said, I listened to it for 30 minutes and then I spent 30 minutes writing a song and then basically I came up with a poppin' song, right? 30 minutes. That's a YouTube video. Yeah, that's what. This would be the greatest YouTube video of all time if we could put this, if we find this recording and if we leak it. Yeah, that's why I thought she was talking about it, bro. I thought maybe she found like a Ted talk or something that Mike did and she picked it up and that. I would have just pieced together that she actually talked to him. She actually listened to the recording. It was given to her by somebody that was relate, Anton, apparently, which is kind of like smithing low key because she said he wasn't supposed to give it to her but I don't know, right? But, all right, let's get into the details. One, formulas. Artists hate formulas. They do. She herself said, I was not even really trying to create a hit. I thought this was gonna be horrible. And then, oh boy, this is a great song, right? People loved it. Not just the label, but the audience. And more importantly, and this is the part that we can get deep in. She said, it is a good song. She wrote it from a place of angst, kind of. Right? A little hate, you know what I'm saying? A place of hate, you know? But then, I guess as she listened to it over time, I'm like, dang, you know what? That is a good song. I can't be, I can't hit on myself. Yeah, and to your point, we don't know what the formula is but I'm willing to bet you a part of that is like, hey, let's put something simple in it that can get so ingrained in your inner psyche that you will eventually grow to like it whether or not you don't like it. I'm willing to bet money that's in there. That's definitely part of it because we have listened to the song You Plus Me and I've said, I've sang You Plus Me multiple times. Yeah, that's all you need. You plus me. What's the rest of it? Well. Exactly, that's what I'm saying, but that's the point. Equals you plus me equals, and then she'll say one thing then the second time she said something different. So equals something different every single time. That's catchy. That's something that I can plug and play. We should listen to the song and really try to break down and guess the formula. We'll like end the video with that. But there's some other elements that we need to talk about here because again, what I think a lot of artists miss is the same thing that got missed the last time we did a video on a formula because it's not just one formula for success. So let's be clear about that. We don't believe there's just one formula for success. However, there are formulas that improve success and there's formulas that exist where you can at least learn something from this formula. It's like, if I'm not a violinist or I don't wanna be a violinist, me learning how to play violin is gonna teach me things that I could apply to something else and still improve my overall artistry. And I wanna play real quick. The last time from Ranch 1500 where he talks about the controversial formula that went viral last time. Every time when I work with artists, I'll challenge them and say, hey, let's write a song with 40 or 50 words or less. I did it with Coyla Ray, I just did it with Sweet. I did it with everybody. Like it's a challenge. Write a song with 40 words or less. More importantly, people missed this part. He said, it's a challenge. People took it so literally like a song has to be 40 words or less just to be a hit. He didn't say that. It was more so the challenge of simplifying and refining and being a creative challenge. It's like, oh boy, use your creativity. Why is that a hard thing for artists to swallow sometimes? It's like, he's not saying don't be creative. This actually forces you to be more creative. How do you write a great song in less than 40? And it's an exercise, it's a challenge. That's what he was saying, right? Which I think of any formula you try to copy will force you to do that. Yeah, I mean, and to his point, it's not even a sentiment that's only echoed in music. Like I've taken business classes and public speaking classes where like, hey if you have something that you can say in 100 words, cool, cut it down to 50, you know what I'm saying? Because you need to be more concise. You only have so much time to get people's attention and a lot of people aren't gonna stick around to hear word number 98, you know what I'm saying? Sometimes that's the case. And what I, I think that video taught me a lot about what I think the disconnect between artists and the formulas are. I think artists hurt themselves because they want people to be way more complicated than they really are, right? It's like, we're used to thinking artists are complicated. That's kind of, that's kind of y'all whole stick, you know what I'm saying? Being overly complicated in the video. They're not as complicated as they are. Yeah, y'all definitely are. Yeah, definitely not. They complicate things, but they're not as complicated. 100% not. And then it's like, you get mad at the receiver of the art for not being as complex as you are. It's like, bro, we're not thinking about it as deeply as you are. I like the song, I don't like the song, I like the melody, I don't like the melody. I like this one bar you said, I don't like this one bar. You said, that's about as deep as the average music consumer gets into it. Right. And so what's crazy about the formulas is I feel like we replace it with a different word. They will understand it. The word. Recipe. That's all it is, bro. Formula is a recipe. If you give me a chili recipe and you're like, hey, bro, I got this fire chili, the kids love it, the wife love it. Every time I serve it for guests, they just go crazy. And I go, all right, cool, but Sean, you don't put jalapenos in your chili. I like jalapenos in my chili. Like me adding jalapenos doesn't necessarily take away from the formula, the recipe. The core recipe. Yeah, the core recipe, right? I can still add my little sauce to it, but it'll be crazy of me to say that, hey Sean, your chili recipe, nah, it ain't for me. I want to make my own chili. It's like, why bro? I just gave you the sauce for the great chili, bro. Like do your thing, you know what I'm saying? Like add your jalapenos in, but follow this recipe. And I thought that's what she did. Cause like I said, to your point, I wish we could know what the formula was or get deeper into it, but I'm looking the best. She probably didn't follow it a hundred percent of the way. Maybe like 98% and she added a little bit of her flare into it, but she's still following a formula, still following a recipe and finding a way to add herself into it and, you know, look at what she got. And for those who don't know, who is Mike Karen, the guy behind this formula? Oh yeah. Cause I've heard this for years actually about Mike Karen, that he has these formulas. He has a black Joe button. One time I was like, say he had like a book or something that you go into and you'll put some artists in the studio and create these hits, right? So he knows how to create a hit factory and Mike Karen is not an artist, you know, maybe traditionally, right? He might be an artist in background, but his role in the industry is not an artist, which is just a reminder, artists, the people who creating them or creating music aren't the only ones who have a say or understand how to create great music, right? So let's put that out there. One, who is Mike Karen though? Mike Karen is the CEO of the music publishing company, artist publishing company. APG. All right, APG huge. It's funny when I hear artist publishing company, it doesn't connect as big as APG cause I always hear APGs. He also is a A&R at Warner. He is the co-president of Atlantic Records, produced beyond saying Kanye. I don't know, are those producer credits? What kind of producer credits that are? I think he does have a producer background. I'm pretty sure that that might be where he got his start. Which I wouldn't be surprised, I wouldn't be surprised. I still have not done my Mike Karen deep dive, to be honest, but he's in a rock and roll hall of fame. This man's done some stuff, right? Mike Karen, definitely a music industry OG, man, I go. Savant. You know what I'm saying, yeah. He's a Savant. Had him, I love him, man. The man on put some points on the board. And there's a formula that exists. So this person right here said, yo, I never listened to her before this. They just heard this clip and they said, let me go check her out. I was missing out. Super talent and great music, right? The first song they probably started with was you plus me, because that's the first song, it's at the top, right? That's why Mike is Mike. Two of my faves, Lincoln, I love this. Yeah, Mike definitely knows what he's talking about. And Billen is another person, looks like they're in the industry. I need that 30 minute talk. You see all these different clips. You hate to interrupt your regularly scheduled podcast, but my man, Brady Manson, I got something. He's just been dying to save you all. Go ahead, Brian. We're looking for a hundred of y'all, a hundred artists who could be at our next event on October 15th. We're doing another one. Those of y'all who know that we did this one other time, we have helped artists go from zero to millions of streams in 90 days. And we have artists who are at the first event who are already getting millions of streams. We're looking to help more artists. We wanna hear your music. We wanna meet you in person. We wanna commune. This isn't something just get some education and keep moving. We wanna chop it up, tap it up, take some pictures and hopefully build a relationship with you in the long term. But the last few details to Corey, you go ahead and let them know where it is, time, all that good stuff. Yeah, I got you, I got you. So if you wanna commune, you wanna learn, then meet us in Washington, DC on October 15th at 1230. But once again, we'll be meeting with a hundred of you. You know what I'm saying? You gotta be real strict on that, a hundred people. Not one or one, not one or two. If you wanna make sure it's your one of those hundred people, click the link in the description or go to knowlabelsnecessary.com slash DC to get your ticket. And yeah, hopefully we see you there and we see you from a certain state. www.knowlabelsnecessary.com. Remember we sold out real fast last time. We'll probably do it again. See you there. Let's play the John Mayer clip that actually alludes to a lot of what she went through process-wise in following a formula and again, the value artist of following these formulas, even if it's not what you're gonna do for every single song. Now I'm actually at the point where I'm going, why do I need to like what I'm writing? What if I can write things that I don't even like at the moment, but that I'm compelled to write? But then what would be the point? If you don't like it, it's because it just exists a little bit beyond your own tastes for that moment. But if you don't like it and it's a hit, then you're gonna be stuck singing on it. No, you begin to like it. Oh, okay. Like that's what happens as a writer. You write something and go, I bet this isn't any good, but your tastes catch up to it. So now I'm going, I know it's a very complex kind of twisted thought, but why does my liking my idea have to stop me from writing the idea? Right, right. Maybe what you like and don't like right now is not essential. It's a lot of things actually that are clicking now that I didn't think about when we first saw this clip because one, he's alluding to what Kill Boy went through in terms of I'm writing this idea, I'm executing it and I'm just performing an exercise. That's what he said basically, right? Like, why do I have to like it to write it? So let me play it one more time. I'm actually at the point where I'm going, why do I need to like what I'm writing? What if I can write things that I don't even like it? What if I can write things that I don't even like at the moment and it might be ahead of my taste, basically. If my taste catches up to it, that means two things. Artists, y'all don't just have the ability to be ahead of other people and their taste. You have the ability to be ahead of your own taste. You have the ability to be ahead of yourself. Right? That's crazy. And sometimes you might actually hinder your own progress as an artist by liking it as you in the current moment. And that's probably where writer's block comes a lot of times. I'm trying to only write things that I currently love the taste of instead of just writing. And a lot of times if you're writing a paper, if you're writing a song and you just write, they'll say like, no, just go down and write. It doesn't have to be perfect. Just start writing because it prevents that writer's block in that sense of perfection that can stop that growth. So when you combine that with the fact that there's some formulas that kind of get you out your own head, you file a formula to find new spaces. And the fact that you do not have to like it in the moment, you likely will catch up. Cause it's coming from you still too, right? It's probably hard to write songs that you completely hate that it come from you. If you do, then there's probably some therapy or something needed. You know what I mean? It's like, so all of these are really connected. And these have just popped up between Rantz 1500 killed boy and John Mayer. This thing is starting to develop over our last, what three or five episodes? Yeah, I like it cause it keeps enforcing the point that I love hearing, I want artists to take it in. And there's that sometimes, a lot of times even you're wrong and it's okay. You can be wrong and still be wrong on your way to a hit. You know, and I think to your point earlier right when you mentioned Mike, we know Mike has a creative background, but we don't know if he actively stays in that world, but it's like, I think sometimes artists see only themselves as the people that are able to put these things together, right? Put these bodies of work together that people would like, but what I don't think they often think about is like, a lot of artists are selfish, man. Like they tend to create what they enjoy, they pay attention to what they enjoy, what they're like, if you're on a label or even have a team around you, there are all these people that are paying a lot more attention to what people think and people enjoy than you might be paying attention to. So even though you can make the argument that you don't create, you don't know, it's like, that's not true. Like I'm the one that, you know, maybe to Mike's I've been in thousands of songwriting sessions. I've literally been able to see what this formula can create for hundreds, if not thousands of views. You know, you take it to a market and like, hey bro, I'm literally the one reading the comments and what the people are saying. I'm the one looking at the data. Like I'm the one engaging the feedback on these things. You're just going to create. I am working on systematizing and creating a formula for what you create, right? You know what I'm saying? Which going back to the earlier point, artists hate formulas. They feel like it puts them in a box. But formulas exist for a reason. You know what I'm saying? It's the same reason. McDonald's make the same double cheeseburger formula at every McDonald's across the nation, man. Say, no, this shit eight times out of 10 gonna hit. No matter who come in this bitch. That's why you have your very perfect example that I like to use over and over again. There's one artist that signifies so many of the things that artists fight against even though that artist is held up high on a pedestal by artists at the same time. Lil Yachty. Kanye West, sir. Oh, okay, got you. Kanye West, sir. I was in the same ballpark. I thought we was talking to this Lil Yachty, bro. We gotta get a Lil Yachty. Any time we talk about a song, right, man, we gotta get a Lil Yachty as well. Kanye West. Let me tell you about Kanye West, bro. Do not us bump us do music artists and other artists not hold Kanye West on a pedestal in terms of his ability as an artist, right? All right. People hold Kanye in high regard as an artist. I know he's going with this. Yeah, he's consistently known for taking formulas for lack of better words. He will go learn something somewhere else and he is an avid student which is what makes him a great artist. As big as EO is, he does go through student work over and over again. Learn as those formulas, ways of thinking, collects those frameworks, puts it in his own work and then comes out with something greater over and over again. As a matter of fact, Kanye is like Captain Planet, bro. Okay, I think I might see where you're going with that and go walk me through it. Your powers combined. I am Captain Planet. I take the earth, the water, whatever. I'm taking all these elements. I got Virgil up under me. I got all these other people that I can learn from and I want the best from all of y'all and y'all create of me. Okay, yeah. That's what he does. I agree with that. Over and over again. And that's the hero version of it. If it was a supervillain, he would be the one who sucks up all your powers and then just becomes the bigger and bigger. He'd be one for all. An awful one. Now, see, the way you're responding to me lets me know you don't know what I'm talking about. Oh, I responded to you specifically because I knew that was not exactly what you wanted. I know what it alludes to. But it's funny because there's an awful one in what I'm talking about. So that makes it even funnier actually, yeah? Because they were trolling when they created it, bro. You know? Shit. But I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. They were trolling just like they do in Disney movies. You see adult jokes? They're like, no way. They're like, eat this stupid shit up, bro. That's crazy, bro. That's crazy. Oh my God. I didn't expect the disrespect to coming up a friendly reference. But you do make a good point. A lot of the best artists, you know, you thank your Michaels, your Kanye, your Beyoncé, your Quincy. These are all people that were, to your point, perfectly fine with altering formulas. Let me learn the formula first and then figure out how to add my own spin on top of it. And we're perfectly fine with listening to advisors around them who may have been telling them like, hey, I know you the creator. You Michael, you sing, you dance, you do. But yo, I'm Quincy, bro. I'm gonna get a different vision out here. You know what I'm saying? Listen to me. Let's do some good shit together. So it's 2000, right? Smart enough to follow the formula until they need to anymore. Smart enough to listen to people pitching them formulas to try to follow. Individually, like artists create this perception of the individual artists in a room alone, creating an expression that's only of them not affected by the outside world. But all of the greatest artists, you mentioned the Kanye and those that you also talked about, they are taking these respective absorbing from others, taking these formulas that do exist. And then they create a higher vision that connects more people. And then we hold it in a high regard. Anybody, all the masters have gone through a process of learning the formulas like a Picasso, right? We regard him better than somebody outside of marketing. We regard them and then recognize their talent greater than like a maybe five year old that might make a similar looking image because we knew they went through the process of learning technique first. And then at some point after having techniques in the formulas, now you can say, well, I know he can do this. So the fact that he made it look like this must be intentional versus a third grader. It's like, it was just done like that, right? So now you can't even create any idea of value from it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, I get what you're saying. So like artists again, bro, if one of your goats is Captain Planet, there's just nothing wrong with that. You know what I mean? I wonder how many don't even know who Captain Planet is. That's true. Bruh, I just talked to an artist recently. I hope you're watching. And I was trying to make a reference to the music and I compared what Afro Beats is doing now to like the Caribbean Invasion what happened with reggae music in early 2000s. I'm like, you know what I'm talking about, right? He was like, nah. I'm like, you know, like Sean Paul? He was like, who that? Baby man? Then I was like, all right, bro. Let me, let me just play a song. You don't know the music. I give it a ride, 10-bitch or nah, I don't know that. Just give me that ride. I'm like, God, leave, bro. This moment in my life has arrived because he was somebody that you would think would know it. That's the worst part about it. You know what I mean? Like you would almost just look at it like, oh, this is my little brother, like we from the, no, we not, man. So anyway, outside of us being older than we thought. Let's try to break down this formula. We're going to listen, take a moment and then we're going to give y'all our thoughts of what we think makes this formula. Make the chili. All right, so we broke down the formula and there's a lot of different elements that we took note of. And we're going to have to do a whole another video on that sometime, but I just want to talk about five of the elements that we noticed that we think actually apply. All right? We think that it's something there and we want to know what y'all think, but the first element, which is actually a glaring, strong, maybe smoking gun, that this has to be a part of the formula is the hook is actually most of the song. Like half of it. It has more emphasis, basically half of the song. So this, the hook is 28 seconds long and there's three hooks that play, which is 84 seconds, right? Almost a minute and a half. The entire song itself is two minute and 43 seconds long. Two minutes and 43 seconds. All right, so just about half the song is left after you get rid of hook. But guess what? All of that is in verse. The other half isn't just verse. You have 13 seconds that play of just beat. All right, there's a couple of like mini bridges in it. So when you're talking about the amount of time spent on verse, what was it? I think we got 53 seconds total on verse of a two minute and 43 seconds song. Yeah, man, to the ranch's point earlier, man, most of the focus is on the part of the song with the least amount of words, you know? Most of the focus. Even if the whole song doesn't only have 40 words, that's interesting. Most of the focus still being on the part that has the least words and simplicity. There might be something to that there. There might be something to that there. Let's just get a sheer percentage too. So numbers-wise, verse is only 23% of the song. 23%, chorus almost 50%. Yeah, makes sense. It's a big gap there, all right? So we touched on basically too, the hook being the majority and verse being the minority within the remainder of the song. That's an interesting note. Now, another thing is breaking the monotony. All right, because if you're gonna have a song that has so much chorus, so much repetition, which is technically another sub-element. So if a song has so much repetition and it's gonna introduce this chorus over and over again, something that was really cool in this song is they didn't just say the exact same chorus over and over again. They spiced it up a little bit. Chakor, you wanna drop the bars of the verse? You plus me equals movies in my head and in my dreams, it's the free show. And then she switches it up, right? Second time when she repeats it. Oh, you plus me equals, I don't know what it's about to lead. It's a free throw, right? So she lets us know what it leads in both times. It's a bar, actually. It is a bar, yeah. It's definitely a bar. And I didn't do it justice in my poetic reading, but if you listen to it, she's switching the tonality up of the lyrics. There's points where like different ad-libs drop in. There's different effects that kinda come in. On top of her switching the words up. So to your point, right? It's like, hey, we're gonna focus on half of the song being just these lines. And we gotta make this specific session not boring pretty much. Gotta make sure that something that kinda breaks their listening pattern. Reminds them that they're listening to some shit. If you're gonna repeat something that you do again, or I guess I think about it like this, if we know to have a hit song, we're gonna have to repeat the same elements. You wanna repeat, but don't be repetitive. Yeah, exactly. It's like, how can we make this thing that they're gonna hear a hundred times over sound different when they hear it. There goes tone, maybe change up a word or two, and maybe what? Energy. Change to beat or energy. Yeah. Yep. All right, there we go. Now, that's just some of the switch up. We're breaking the monotony. Again, there's many ways you can break the monotony. You don't even have to use all of those different elements that we just mentioned. Maybe you just switched to beat drastically, and that's enough. You don't have to change lyrics, but breaking the monotony, pretty sure that's probably a part of this. All right? And then another thing is the classic build up with a beat drop. Yep. All right? It's already low, came in, bam, a beat drop. That's always gonna, it's gonna do something. Yeah. All right? Now, it doesn't mean a song's gonna work just because you do these things. You could probably find songs that are duds that have some of these elements in it. Yeah, but it's nice. You know, it lets us, the audience, know that something is coming, man. This is building up to something. Right, but it's nice to have that build up, for sure. And then a big thing for me was the song starting quickly. We'll get deeper when we break this whole thing down in a separate video because I think we should definitely do that. But like literally three, four seconds in, she's like starting, it's her verse, but it starts so quickly that you feel, you feel like the song, no, you automatically can begin to be hooked by the words in the verse. Yeah, I was gonna say that. It's almost like a, like a TikTok hook, right? Yes. I mean, I'm giving you, you don't have time to scroll away. You know what I'm saying? I'm not giving you enough time to scroll away. That's a perfect way to think about it. Cause it's all attention. Whether you keep playing the song, they say, all right, a song doesn't count as a stream until it plays for 30 seconds, right? Yeah. All right? Yeah. Well, why don't they count it to 30 seconds? Cause people could just be clicking around. Somebody could click your song by mistake. They might not have really been streaming it. But once they made a long enough decision to continue to give you attention, now we can cut it in a stream and now you can get paid. So how do you keep them hooked for at least 30 seconds? Maybe that back half of that song is trash, but could you at least keep them for 30? At least give them the 31 seconds. All right. You know, maybe that guy that you owe a verse, you know what I'm saying? It's like, Hey, bro, be the second verse. You know what I'm saying? I owe you a verse, but you really ain't that good. You know, that's how they position some of this. And then as a bonus, cause again, we're going to break down some of these other elements later. And there's a special video I want to play that we're going to play in real time of somebody else talking about this exact same formula from Mike Karen, but I think another element, at least topically that he might've mentioned is, no, but I think there's probably a topic element in this breakdown of this formula. He probably has like five different topics, a part of it because I was thinking about the relationship theme here. All right. And I know relationship stuff goes viral even early before like I was as deep in the music as I was now and things first started to move. I was like, man, at some point when I get to where I want to music, I'm going to start a relationship channel. I wasn't going to be in it. It was just going to now mitigate those topics, have people talk about it, meet up and that. And now so many pages exist that have exactly that. Why? Cause it's so easy to say, Hey, talk about women or talk about man and get everybody else to engage. We know it happens over and over again. So relationship, I'm sure there's other things that he's already marked out that are something that you want to talk about. Yeah. I think we've talked about it before too. I thought it was an old episode where it's at least like four or five things. If you really pay attention to music, it always covers one of those places. Probably love, relationship, heartbreak, money, being up, being down. Yeah. I'm saying. Part of the same things that you see in movies, you know, some kind of draw between the two. So we can definitely add that note from when we do the episode. And yet what's crazy is there is like maybe two subliminals before we leave the whole, the whole subject of this song in particular. So Josh noted, the part that sticks out in the song is you plus me. Yeah. Right. And that might allude to the fact that she's following a formula and remember she hated this in the beginning. So maybe she was low key trying to throw them a sub. She did say she was trying to be funny about it. Right. She was trying to be funny about it. So maybe she alludes to the formula. And then the other sub, you know what the other sub is? I can't get this bitch right on my head. Yes. She's telling you you can't get it out your head while you can't get it out your head. And I thought about that because you were just singing it. Yeah. We ain't got to keep that part in either, you know. Oh, we don't have to, but we may, you know what I mean? We may. I mean, we'll play it literally right here. We'll do it like a nice little repeat. All right, we'll just play that random part to the video. It's looping for 30 minutes straight. All right. So those are the elements and now I want to, like let's get into this video. All right, so I want to give a reminder that being independent, it's not just about not being signed to a label. It's actually making money without being signed to a label, being able to have a sustainable career. And for those of y'all who actually want to be able to make money from your fan base, you're serious about figuring out how to monetize. I have a free video that you can check out. I don't need your email. I don't need your phone number. I don't need any information. All you have to do is go to www.nolabelsnecessary.com slash monetize. And I'm going to show you the lies that artists have been told that have been keeping them, probably you too, from monetizing your fan base and how shifting that perspective has allowed one artist we're working with to be on track to make over $500,000 this year. This is a different era. Don't fall for that trap saying artists can't make money. Artists do not have to be broke. So if you want to escape that trap, go to www.nolabelsnecessary.com slash monetize. You do have to make sure you put the www in the beginning when you type it in your URL and watch this free video again. You're not going to be asked to put in your email. You're not going to be asked for your phone number, but it won't be up forever. Check it out. I actually haven't watched this video yet, but I know I saw it back in a day, but I cannot remember a word from it. But they're talking about this formula. This is Joe Butting and Hitmaker, which is still throwing me off because I still think of him as Youngberg, but they're talking about it on a show called Everyday Struggle, R.I.P. The Everyday Struggle. Let's see what happens in this conversation. Mike Karen. Let me get to the hits with you. Mike Karen has his own ways of making records. I didn't buy by the Mike Karen rules because I'm super duper creative. Like in like, I just don't allow people to tell me what the fuck to do. So this formula does contradict the minds of super creatives because I'm just amazed at how super creative people continue to sit and tell me that there's a formula. Yes, yes, yes. Y'all are not that stupid. Bro, listen, everybody that has been submissive to Mike Karen and does what Mike Karen wants to do is a multi-millionaire. That's not my question. Sure. That is the question at the end of the day. No, my only- That's actually quick. I think I got to make a note. One, this is yet another person basically saying, I'm not going to follow or I want to resist, but he also is acknowledging that it works at the same time. And I think that's when you're going to get the purest, you know, the most credible feedback. You know what I'm saying? Like he said, I don't like this. He's showing resistance, but he's also acknowledging that it works at the same time. Yeah. The only question that involves Mike Karen today is about this hit formula. I like to see where other creatives fall on this. And you telling me that everybody has worked with Mike Karen and has made a s**tload of money. Not really answering my question. Can you tell us anything about this formula? Like this is the real s**t. So Pinky can get a hit from the book. What he's saying is the music works. That's what he's trying to say, not just like directly tying the money, you know what I mean? So we're not getting these millions unless people are listening to and liking the song. And actually liking it. Yeah. So Pinky can get a hit from the book. No, no, no. This is the real s**t. Let me just be honest. And Mike, don't kill me. To find out the honesty. You put every hot s**t that's gonna come up in one studio. And then you're in A, you're in B, you're in C. You do have the rules. We're all writing to one B. He can take all those ideas and twist it and make it what it wants to be. Like we're all writing to the same B. Every person that is writing to one B to make a hat. Does he pick the hit? Huh? Does he pick the hit then? Yeah, he picks it. Huh. Sit down. And the developed idea, that becomes what goes on the book. Here's another example. When Fast and Furious happened before Torrey Lanes popped off and all that other s**t. Me, T-Pain, Torrey Lanes. Everybody was on a chartered bus to watch the Fast and Furious movie. And it brought us back to the studio. And we all sat in the studio in a room and made the record. I like talking to you. See, I don't understand this though, right? Because this sounds like, yo. Like, one, I'm inspiring y'all. I just put y'all on the bus, watched the movie. While y'all are inspired, go on a high. There's no difference in somebody saying I'm on a walk. I just watched a songwriter or artist say, I go on walks and then I make a music. Actually, it wasn't a songwriter. It was Johnny Cash. He was talking about it. And he said, writing a hit, writing song is like this magical thing, right? I can't just say, I'm going to go write a song. But if I say, I'm going to go on a walk, I'll end up writing a song. It was something like that, right? Like, you have to do something. He was basically eluding that you get an experience and then you get inspired, right? So he gave them an experience of listening to the music. And then, I mean, listen to the movie, watch the movie, and then while y'all are inspired, that's in you. He wants you to write something that directly connects. I don't see that as something crazy, super magical, or like anti-creative. That's the most important part of all this life. Yeah. And what, another part, hold up real quick. It's just competition. Yes. Competition and mitigating your risk of getting to try a song. Just more shots up on the board. All y'all are writing the same song. Yeah. Somebody going to give me a hit. Yeah. Which one of these are better? Like, I think, I know sometimes creators don't like a competitive edge. And I'm sure maybe there's more things that they're not talking about here, but like everything that I'm hearing specifically here is like above board. But which is cool, which is probably why Mike Karen is Mike Karen, you know what I mean? Is we were just talking about what Killboy said that alluded more to how to write a song. She wasn't in this process that Hitmaker's talking about. So that means he has his own formulaic way of writing a hit, right, in terms of like how you can do it individually, the core elements and structuring probably. But he also has ways to execute writing a hit, which is interesting too, right? I'm going to put y'all in the room, then I thought, I mean, to me, Bre sounds like a genius for one. Yeah. I'd leave it at that. I mean, I looked at it more like he has a formula for drawing a hit out of people. Because see, your point about the competitive nature is like, if you're a songwriter and you're pitching songs, you know that you're competing with other songwriters. But it's one thing for you to be in the room and be able to see your competition, right? You dapped your competition. No, y'all had lunch together 10 minutes ago. And then boom, y'all get broken off in sessions. You know, only one of y'all getting picked more than likely. That brings a completely different energy to the landscape. But let's leave the video at this. We've already gone long enough. Hopefully y'all like this video. If y'all have any feedback, let us know. How do y'all think this works? Do you think that there's a specific formula that can at least improve the chances for a hit? Not should you do it or not? Don't give us all that argument. What's good and bad? Whatever. They're going to do it. What are y'all, of course, they're going to do it. Let us know what y'all think in terms of the formula. Have y'all noticed any other formulas or elements and things that you can do? Write it down in your comments. Actually, go listen to the song and tell us what you think the formula to the song is. Other than that, this is yet another video. I'm Brain Man Sean. And I'm Corey. We out. Peace. Wow, what's up? It's Brain Man Sean. And if you like this clip, you can listen to the full episode on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you stream your podcast. But if you want to keep watching, we've placed a video that will be so useful for you conveniently above. Go ahead and click that link and watch it.