 physical therapy for a better life. I'm your host, Christine Lenders, physical therapist and board certified orthopedic clinical specialist. I am here today with holistic esthetician, Ivy Delane, who's gonna tell us all about the microbiome of our skin. Welcome Ivy. Nice to see you. Thanks for having me. Nice to see you too. I'm so excited. You've been such a wealth of information for myself, for my patients, and for my viewers on how to have glowing skin at home on a dime, you know, just doing it yourself. And we've all been having so much fun with that. So, so thank you. So yeah, you in December, you mentioned something else besides the lymphatic drainage that piqued my interest in that was the microbiome. And a lot of my patients are talking about, I want to know about that. And I never heard of it until you mentioned it. And tell us all, what is the microbiome of the skin? What does that, what does that mean? Okay, so it starts in utero that we start gaining like microbiome in our gut, right? So as just like our guts, we have microbiome on our skin. So through birth, typically starts like getting the healthy but microbiome. So that's why they say vaginal birth is the best because you're getting all of that healthy flora onto your skin in the beginning of your life. So that's kind of where it starts and begins. So on our skin and in our gut, in our self as a being, we have the trillions of microbiome and they make up of different microorganisms such as like fungi, viruses, bacteria. And basically what we want to do in our throughout our lifetime is keep the diversity of these microbiomes on our skin so that everything is pretty much equal. And that's where you have glowing and healthy skin. So that's just kind of the start of it. So through the- Yeah, healthy skin. Yeah, so like even the acne bacteria, that's on our skin and we need that there, right? And then you have the dude, I can never say this word, dead mix might, I believe it is. And a lot of people say that those causerous asia in big balances, in big, if there's too many of them. So the two of them together kind of keep the everything is almost balanced. So the point of it is keeping everything in balance. It's very, very important and just keeping everything first. That makes a- So when you- Yeah. Like good guys and bad guys need the equal amount. My friend, Michelle was talking about some bone broth and gut healing and broth, you know, and that kind of stuff too. And she explains to her kids when she wants to give them something that maybe they don't want to have. She's like, listen, like there's the good guys and there's the bad guys and you need the balance of good guys and bad guys to be complete and healthy. And so we are good guys right now because you're not feeling well and that's interesting. We also need it on our skin. Wow. Yes, yes, yes. So when I see a lot of times in skincare, well, I've become more of the holistic side of estheticians probably about five or six years ago and I used to do peels and, you know, kind of what people wanted, the peels, the microdermabrasion, you know, the train of thought, you know, in school and still to this day is, you know, get those layers off and get that, you know, your skin glowing. The problem with that is that you take away, yes, you can take away some sunspots, but you're also taking away the microbiome that is actually there to protect you. So that microbiome helps to hold in water in your skin. So once it's gone, now you all of a sudden have hydrated skin that starts sagging. The microbiome helps to heal the skin. So like let's say you get a little cut and I'm not, I'm talking about my face because I'm an esthetician but it could be anywhere on your hand. If you are using a foaming hand wash, you know, like that just says antibacterial, which we've all been told to use the past couple years, right? So, and you get a cut and it's gonna take a lot longer to heal because that microbiome is not there. So it all of that stuff together works together to heal the skin. And so these, I call them pretty aggressive treatments for the skin, I believe that they do a little bit more harm than good because initially you can like look in the mirror and be like, wow, this looks amazing. Like look at my glow. I looked a little dull before but what has happened is you've just taken off such important part of our ecosystem off of your face and it takes a while to come back. Wow, so that's really eye-opening for all of us who's ever done any kind of glycolic, that's the word I was trying to think of before, a glycolic something, which is like a little bit of an acid that they rub on that's supposed to like help dead skin stuff, right? And you take off your healthy, whatever virus is back here, all those healthy bugs. So for people, myself included in the past, I haven't done it in a really long time but I do know what you're talking about. You get it done. You're like, wow, look at this glow. It's really amazing how I know how to glow otherwise but what do you do? Like is there like theorems or things that you can eat or put on your face, your skin to promote flourishing of that flora? Okay, I just want to back up. I will answer that question but there was something you said that I wanted to comment on. As you said, something about taking off the dead skin cells. So, so many people say this and so many people believe that, even estheticians. There's no dead skin cells on your body until it hits the floor. So anything that's on your skin is still alive until it's not under, it's until it hits the floor, right? So those dead skin cells that people are trying to take away, it is the very, very last layer. They are ready to go but there is some form of protection and by just really blasting them away is you're bringing now like baby skin cells that don't have a microbiome there, that don't have the protective layer up and are going, okay, like I guess I'm ready even though I'm not. And then you cause all kinds of risk, more sun damage, more hyperpigmentation, more of all that. So that's just part of that. Because that's a myth that I hear so often. I mean, all the time, you know, I'll get those dead skin cells in there, right? Yeah. So they're not really dead until they're off of you. And yes, there are ways to bring your microbiome back. So first of all, there's some culprits of, it's not just over-exfoliation, like it can be painkillers, it can be processed foods, antibiotics, certain things like that can also disrupt the microbiome of your skin. Some things you can't get away from, but from my side, just as an ascetician in skincare, that's what I focus mostly on. Staying away from, I can't tell you how many people are using the wrong skin product. They're using foaming cleansers. So if you have a cleanser that foams up and you're like, oh yeah, you're washing your face and you're like wanting that squeaky clean feeling and then you dry up your face and then it feels so squeaky clean, that's not good. A lot of people really want that and especially people I find that have had skin issues in the past, they really want that feeling. But that's not the way that our skin is naturally. And then also over exfoliation, in my opinion, I exfoliate with a very gentle exfoliator once a month, maybe if I feel like I need it. Sometimes people say, oh, well, how often should I exfoliate? Should it be once a month, once a week, every other day? And I say, first of all, feel your skin. If it feels like a lot of roughness, start with a wash cloth, just start lightly there. So, and also I don't always recommend people to wash their face twice a day, because I mean, unless you really feel like you have to, but you always want to use a very, very gentle cleanser, either gel-based or just like any kind of a creamy base, nothing that foams up at all, because typically those have surfactants in them and that's like washing your dishes. You want to get the grease off, right? So you use Dawn and you just get that grease off and then your dishes are clean. And that's not what we want for our face. So, that's like so much information. It's great information. I'm thinking in my head of everything I've used in the past, like you said, people use all the wrong cleansers, they use so many different things. And I've used foaming cleansers when I was in Connecticut because my skin was so dry and I felt like it was like dead skin that needed to come up. And then somebody told me I should exfoliate. So I went and got like an exfoliator and it says like do it twice a week. So I was like, okay, let me get rid of this dull, dry, winter skin and I was using a foaming cleanser and then exfoliating and it's crazy. I've also used like some oil stuff too because I felt like I needed to put the oils on after because I was dry, but I was doing all the wrong things. Sorry. Yeah, well oils are good. I'm definitely about oils. The problem with certain oils is like if you're using, let's just say at a cheap brand or something that isn't sourced the right way or they're using cheap oils, a lot of times the oils can go rancid, right? So then you're putting rancid oil on your face with the foaming cleanser. So it's really all about, I mean, in my opinion, finding someone that you can trust in skincare, not quite believing the mass marketing that's going on, which is all over all the time, even subliminally, I believe. And I'm totally down for like my clients or people just to even start small. Like let's get you on one or two things today that I think that you could use. So things that bring the microbiome back to that question. So just a gentle cleanser if needed. I really like to, one thing that I think is overlooked is hydrosols or elixirs. They're usually water-based what we call, or what people call toners back in the day and probably still now, I think it's a little less, but toners used to, people used to think of them as, oh, you tone your skin. Usually they would have some alcohol in it and get the rest of your makeup off and you could actually look at the cotton ball and see, oh, look, this is actually really working. A lot of that is just oils that you're really seeing. So you're just stripping your face. So in the line that I use, I use a lot, it has very supportive ingredients in the hydrosols. So there's like herbs and nutrients and it's water-based, but you know, like these herbs are soaked and they're in there and they're there for a specific reason. Whether you have rosacea, whether you need to bring your microbiome back, whether you need, you know, have a little bit of extra oil, they'll, you know, they're formulated that way. So using a good quality hydrosol is awesome and then like going in with your serums and balms or moisturizers. Another thing I wanna mention is using like a hydrosol of water-based product with an oil-based product, the two together really work well. If you're looking to bring your microbiome back or if you're feeling like you have dry skin or if you're aging or if you wanna help soften your wrinkles, the two together work wonders. So it's a hydrosol is something I think that it is always really overlooked. That's so lucky. I have so many questions right now. I remember in Connecticut, I was using, I forgot what it was, I was in Poland of all places. I was looking for my family and I went and got a facial when I was in this very old town and she had this same thing, my dry skin, all that kind of stuff and from the winter, she gave me a cream and I told her I had this oil and I put like a couple of drops of the oil in my, it was like moisturizer or the, she's like, what are you using for moisturizer? And I was like this, she's like, well, that's not really a moisturizer. That's like this. And so I remember putting a drop of oil in with my moisturizer and then putting it on my face and how much more moisture I felt. But the other thing I was thinking of is that at night, now I will spritz my face and I wanna ask you, is this like kind of a hydrosol? It's like a rosewater spritz. So I will spritz my face with that and then I put a couple of drops of, what is it? It's an oil. And then I rub it together and then I put the oil on and then I do my, not like drainage. And I'm telling you, I know I said this to you earlier and I'm sorry, I've said this on the show before too, that I, my landlady, I saw her afterward and she saw me, she's like, oh my gosh, you look really beautiful. Like she's something different. I'm like, I did my like two minute lymphatic drainage with this spray and the oil and I go to bed that way. Cause in the morning, I don't have time. I wish I did, but at night I wash my face with a gel cleanser because I had it and it's now I'm burned over, right? And it's so much better. I totally agree. Like I definitely see the difference in my face. It just feels nice after washing it with a gel cleanser. It doesn't feel dry or squeaky. It feels nice. Yeah, definitely. You don't want, if your face is feeling squeaky or tight after you cleanse your face, you're using the wrong cleanse. And yes, back to that rosewater. Yes, that would be this thing. I think is that the one in the red bottle or pink bottle, rosewater? It's a white, it's plastic. I got like a little sampler of like a hyaluronic, something or other gel cleanser and then one other probably hyaluronic for your eyes when it's brand in New York City. And so I just, I was using, when after I saw you, I'm gonna use this. I've got the gel, I've got the spray. Yeah, I like the sounds of all of that. I do, I do. I mean, I would probably stay away from, I mean, I'm not sure, like I don't know if I trust drugstore brands so much, but that's just me. But yeah, that actually sounds nice. And I know that there is a rosewater that some of my clients use from like Whole Foods or something. They love it. And I say, you know what? Do that, that's fine. You know, like let's put your money maybe somewhere else, maybe into a nice serum or, you know, just something else. But, but yeah, that is kind of the theory of it. I do agree with what you said though, the, you get what you pay for because I remember over the years of being a physical therapist, I've talked to many practitioners from many different realms. And I remember this one was a homeopathic pharmacist and I was asking about the glucosamines. This is in 2002 when everybody's wondering like, do glucosamines can join and does it help you with arthritis? And there was research studies and he came and he's like, listen, he's like the one that they had a Costco, he's actually actually pretty good. He goes, but the thing is, is don't go get the cheapest brand over the counter because the fillers and binders are cheap fillers and binders. You know, if you can't afford the most expensive brand go somewhere in the middle because then the quality of the products they're putting into that are more expensive which is why it's more expensive. And it just helps your body to absorb it. So I fully, I fully agree with what you say. Yeah. And I'd love to get some from you. It is, it's the same, you know they put all the binders and fillers in and maybe a 1% of an orange and call it a vitamin C serum or you know what I mean, that's just how it is regulated. So it is important to be a little bit educated on that kind of stuff too because you can be, you know people I think sometimes they take my advice and then they go and go and buy, you know this stuff at a more reasonable price and then they come back to like well it's not really working, you know and I'm like well, you know it's there's like sciences about it, you know it's not just, yeah. So a couple of things like you mentioned that so I think too like the times that I bought the stuff from someone like you and like that, I feel like they always say like don't use too much and I'm like really? And I put a little and the little goes a long way whereas when I buy stuff from the store not to knock the stuff in the store because I've used that plenty of times. Right. I feel like I need to use more or I put it on and like I need to have a little more and so maybe the cost actually balances out because the high quality product is very potent and you don't need much to cover your whole face whereas the other stuff low quality you feel like you gotta put more on to get the same feel of your skin or look or look maybe. Yeah, no I agree. It's like sometimes like when I'm in certain stores I like to look at the, I mean products in there I don't feel are very cheap sometimes I'm like really? Like for this like, I mean I don't know the line that I carry is not very much more expensive than that. I mean it is, but you know what I mean? So it's kind of shocking to me that they can get away with that but I know that some people that's what they can do. And so that's fine do what you can but just to be I guess my point would be just to be as aware of as possible of what you're actually using. Look at ingredients and you know try to figure out what they are if possible. Yeah, so would something that has fewer ingredients be better for kind of like the keeping your microbiome balanced and healthy? I would think so, yeah, yeah. The more ingredients you see in something and I'm not gonna say like even ingredients that you can't read. Like there are some things that I know are good for you that I still can't read and they're in, you know what I mean? They're not particularly in my line but like in good lines and I would like have to be like what was that again? You know, so it's not just about that but I would say definitely the smaller amount of ingredients and at least the first you know, few things that are in them that you understand what they are. You know. Okay, I know that's good. So me being like anyone watching the show so now, because we're all kind of like oh yeah I've done that, oh yeah I've done that. So now we have kind of off balanced our microbiome and our skin and we just wanna kind of get it back to healthy. We're noticing more wrinkles, we're noticing with like more tire, we're noticing the skin just isn't very like nice and we wanna know why. Like where do we start? Like what do we do? I know we need a gel cleanser to start washing our face like maybe one day at the end, right? To get all this stuff off. Maybe use a washcloth because I've done that before and seen a huge glow in my skin. Maybe use a washcloth as an exfoliator instead of a pretty thing because it's more gentle and then it gets rid of your non-dead skin that's ready to jump off your face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Helps you to walk your face. Yep. But then, then what? Yeah, no tell me, tell me. What else? Okay, one tip that I love to give people it's a mask. It's super easy and great for you. It's a like a raw organic honey mask, okay? So honey has enzymes in it so it's a little bit exfoliating, right? But it's gonna give you the good kind of exfoliation. It's just gonna kind of eat away what might be ready to go. It's a humactant so it's also hydrating and it's also antibacterial. So it's fine for people with blemishes or anything like that. And so if you put, and I recommend it to be raw and organic you could put that on your face. There's no time limit. It can sit there for 20 minutes, five minutes, 30 minutes. It does kind of start to melt on your face especially in this climate to be aware of what you're wearing or maybe have a little towel here. And fun, as funny as it sounds a lot of people are like, isn't it hard to get off? And it's not hard to get off at all. Like I just go to the sink. I have my little washcloth. I put it by my sink. I rinse my, it rinses off really nice and gives a great glow. And that brings the microbiome back. So that's a really fun tip. And I've been using that one for years. Oh my gosh, so I'm gonna do that tonight. I'm gonna go get some raw organic honey. And then I, how often can you do that one? I think, well, maybe not every day only because of the exfoliating part but I would say you could probably do that once a week. Okay, all right. I wanna know because I don't wanna like, I don't want anybody to like overdo it. I also am like, oh, I'm looking kind of tired lately. Let me do this a few more times. Yeah, and you know, like it can be a little, like some people, if you have super sensitive skin which a lot of times it has to do with the microbiome. So be a little careful because it can bring a little bit of redness. It's not, nothing bad is gonna happen but when your microbiome is not intact you're going to be sensitive. A lot of people come to me and they're like, I have the most sensitive skin ever. And I start looking at them asking what they use and I'm realizing that they're, I don't think that they were born with sensitive skin. I don't think that I think it's because their microbiome is gone and so stripped that anything that they put on their skin is like, they're almost to a point where they can't use anything because they can't use anything that they would think that they could use. There are certain things that they can they just have to start really slow and it has to be very specialized, I would say because it's so stripped that anything that, any product that you put on your skin is just gonna make a blur. So it's definitely, it's baby skin that like really just needs like it's almost like raw, you know? And it needs like some very slow nourishing. And so like in that kind of situation I would tell someone, you know, don't even, I mean, you can wash, rinse your face maybe with a washcloth, you can get a nice hydrosodot. I would only probably give them a hydrosol. Start with, and maybe a gentle cleanser and then just start there. And then as their microbiome comes back then you start adding more. But part of the thing, another thing I wanna mention is that a lot of people come to me and they're like, I think I have acne or I have rosacea. I have sensitive, I have melasma. I want my melasma guns, all these issues that I hear all the time. But I would say, I am going to say probably 79% of my clients have a strip microbiome when I first see them. And there's really nothing we can do to help that melasma to help the acne, to help, you know, the rosacea without bringing the microbiome back first because we can't go in with any kind of, you know sometimes I use certain things, not super harsh, but like, you know, I do have like a nice vitamin C mass that helps lighten things and certain things like that. But I can't do that unless their skin is intact. So it's always the first thing that has to happen to move forward into these other conditions. Wow, that's very enlightening. Very enlightening. I have so many questions and we have like one minute left. So what I do want to touch on though, briefly if you can is so like, what about serums? So you're like, you know, you're gel cleansing, you're hydrosoling, then maybe putting a SPF or something afterward, but is there like a serum that you put on after the hydrosol to, I don't know, do something? I always recommend a serum. Yep, I always recommend a serum if your microbiome is not in a great place, there's, you want to use something super gentle, vitamin C might be too much. I always tell people to be on vitamin C serum unless they have a stripped microbiome because then it's just a little too harsh for them. But serums are very, yeah, they're very beneficial to your skin, it usually has smaller molecule that goes in and then the moisturizer kind of just sits and holds everything together. So that's kind of the series as it goes. But yeah, a nice quality, very gentle, something with like chamomile or calendula or yeah, like certain, even, oh, you know, another thing you could do is like chamomile tea cooled, like you boil it, but then cool it and use packs on your face, like maybe squeeze it in a washcloth, put it in the fridge and push it into your skin just to help soothe it and bring that, bring everything back is another good tip. That's blowing me away. Yeah, it's fun. It's so fun, I love it, I love it. I have a lot of fun with it, yeah. Gosh, I mean, I have fun with it now too. I know we gotta wrap it up, but I remember in Connecticut with my dry skin and I was neglecting to wash my face so much because it was so dry and I felt like I was like harming it that I remember telling one of my patients that like that day, like, you're right, I need to wash my face, I can't wait to go home and wash my face and I washed it and I put like a serum on and I put like a moisturizer and it was very fun. I felt like I was having fun and I looked better afterward too, you know, but so that only took me a few minutes. Eliza, anything else you wanna say to wrap up? No, I mean, I'm always here. If anyone has questions, I'm Hawaii Holistic Skin and you can DM me and I love helping people with this because I feel like there's so much misinformation out there and it's hard to find someone that kind of is authentic and true and knows what they're doing. So I'm always here for questions. You can DM me on Instagram and I'm also at Satori Salon and Kailua. If you wanna make an appointment, I would love to have you in. So thank you for having me, Christine. That's so nice to see you, yeah. It's great to see you, yeah. So everybody go and get on Ivy's Instagram and see how you can see her at Satori. So many of my patients have gone and my mom, my mom, we love it and thanks to everyone for being here. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. Okay. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.