 Hi everyone, I am back with Shahid Boutar running in the 12th congressional district in California against Nancy Pelosi as many of you saw on Friday We released a video detailing some of the accusations Against Shahid Boutar and he is here to basically clarify and set the record straight Shahid. Thank you so much for coming back on Thanks for having me on figure. It was great to be with you Yeah, I so basically I do want to update the viewers So where we left off in that video was that I examined the two sets of allegations one Made by Elizabeth Croydon and the other made against staffers now for an update since I published that video I have heard from four different staffers who either are currently employed by Shahid's campaign or have been And they're speaking out in defense of Shahid the first one who I won't name because I'm not sure if she wants to be named has Said that she thinks that you're a good boss Another one pandemidium post that I can link to down below saying that this is um an unfair allegation Another actually commented on the YouTube video saying that she does not believe the accusations that you are a misogynist Another had responded saying that they left the campaign also when others had left but not necessarily because of you but because of the campaign manager who left and is who The one who's basically making these allegations about misogyny and staff mistreatment or whatnot So there's so much to unpack right now and first and foremost I just want the viewers to know that I am not an endorsing shahid batar. I still am supporting his campaign So i'm laying out my bias right there So you know the position that i'm coming from and I I don't plan on grilling you during this interview What I want to give you is the opportunity to respond because a lot of really big claims have been made against you Um, and you haven't been given the platform to respond to this So basically what I want here is clarification because what I see is a lot of internal Campaign dynamics and drama going on and as an outsider. I have no idea What's going on? You know, you have a group of people alleging one thing another group defending you and it's a lot to unpack So just from the standpoint of you Can you respond to the staff mistreatment allegations? Yeah, the very first thing I'll say is that I was surprised To read the stories that emerged a few weeks ago I'd never heard from anyone that they had experienced me in a gendered way in the workplace. I'd never heard from anybody that they'd um, you know had that uh reflection on on on my Showing up on the campaign or in my previous work over the last 20 years The former staff who've shared their experiences recently never shared that Reflection with me when they worked with me and I hadn't heard it when they left And so when I saw it in the press I was alarmed and I take it really seriously because I am not A misogynist. I am very committed to including all people and However, I intended to treat everyone equally and I have always intended to treat people Equally on the basis of all of our characteristics. I also recognize that their experience Is their experience and I can't refute it, you know, I have to own it It's uh, if they felt that they experienced gendered mistreatment in the workplace I have to accept that responsibility the buck stops with me and I acknowledge that experience and I I'm so very gravely. Sorry that anybody Experienced me and as a boss in that way and uh, I'm I again I'm I've done a lot of soul searching and a lot of reflecting and a lot of checking in With current colleagues with former colleagues with people I've worked with for a long time And going back decades to check in and explore what there is for me to learn here And uh, among the things I've learned is that my intentions and my impacts might diverge Did also learn that people in my longer standing past did not have any experiences that align with what I've read about In the press and and I was affirmed by the vast majority of the people I've worked with To to do what I can to learn from the situation And also to just give thanks that I work with the team I work with now that is aligned with my vision And very supportive of the campaign What we're kind of seeing uh, based on the intercept article published by or written by Akila Lacy One of the criticisms that I've seen brought to me by your current staffers who reached out to me after I published the video Was that Akila Lacy interviewed a lot of former and current staffers But didn't actually share the positive experiences that they had shared During that article and so at this point in time we have you know Some people saying one thing and other people saying another thing But we do know that there is some type of kerfuffle that occurred after the March 3rd primary To where um, there was a spat between you and emily jones She had apparently given the email where you apologized to her and there was an exodus of some sort and i've been hearing differing numbers About how many people left the campaign? Can you talk through that incident whatever it was because we don't necessarily like to me this this whole Situation is really amorphous and it's difficult to grasp what happened. So from your perspective Can you kind of detail what exact exactly that was all about because that's kind of what as an outsider? It's difficult to to pin down Absolutely and thanks for raising attention to that episode. So the March 3rd primary I took second place and maybe the first democrat to challenge Pelosi in a generation and I asked for a strategy meeting the next morning And so the strategy meeting that I asked for that weekend Uh ended up being something much more like a sort of organized intervention In which uh, you know, my staff was promoting a particular vision That they had been committed to and that they organized several of my close supporters around And uh, it was a very sharp pivot back to what we were trying to grow beyond And I had uh, you know, it was an unfortunate meeting. Um, it was a meeting that I think reinforced some divisions It was a meeting that I think for me just exposed all the more the need for me to find a staff that was willing to effectuate the campaign that I promised my supporters and It was it was frankly the the beginning of the process that led me to the team I now have which is uh, The when you referred to the exodus. So this there was a lot of wild misrepresentation about that So half a dozen full-time employees left that was it and they left over the course of three months so there was no even an exodus is frankly a Overrepresentation of what was ultimately a trickle I had a slow departure of a series of people And at each point when someone found their way off the team to pursue another opportunity It was a great opportunity for us because the people that we brought in to fill the shoes of the folks who moved on the new folks just had experiences and capacities and Opportunities that the folks who left the campaign weren't able to bring to bear And that's not a criticism of anyone I would just note that when you Are a grassroots candidate challenging the most powerful corporate politician on the planet you don't get the most experienced campaign operatives beating down your door and so I hired folks Into roles that they hadn't had a chance to play before I hope there'd be a lot of collaborative opportunities there that was less available And as I got to that point after the primary where we did very clearly established that we had just fundamentally different Visions for what the campaign would look like and what we'd be doing You know it's and to sum it up It's sort of the difference between a school board race and the kind of race that would beat the speaker of the house And I'm very eager to do the latter and what my team understood how to do you know the nails that they had been hammers Pounding for years and other campaigns As canvassing directors and my campaign manager's case and in the case of my other staff You know they'd been like volunteers on other previous campaigns So on the previous campaigns that they ran there were all local campaigns That didn't have the the reach or the need to Secure support from beyond the district in the way that the campaign that we're running has And you know to some extent the subsequent events Kind of bore out that narrative as we brought in a new team The campaign accelerated it expanded and until these hit pieces ran, you know, that was a pretty One-way trajectory and while it has created a headwind I'm grateful for the chance Now and at other points to respond to these accusations When I hear that there is just Factually speaking a high turn of array that to me usually It is a red flag, but when you get a little bit more of you know, the puzzle pieces come together It's it's a little bit more complex than that. So I'm curious. So you say six people leave as of after that March 3rd Intervention nor debacle Yeah, one of them had been with us for about six weeks Two of them had been with us for a couple months And another one had had barely joined the team So the only person who'd been with us for any length of time when they left was my campaign manager And she'd been with me for about nine months So my question is did they leave specifically because they were Disagreeing with you or had issues with you Or did they leave because the campaign manager was leaving and they were kind of like following it was like a mutiny Um, did anyone else leave because they had disagreements with the campaign manager because I I do know that based on the one person That I heard from they left because they Like you had disagreements with the campaign manager. So can you talk to like Why those six people left in particular? Yeah, the six full-time staff who I'm referring to a bunch of contractors who That worked with my campaign manager when she left they left with her So that was when the intercept misrepresented the number as something over a dozen They were including a bunch of contractors who you know, they were like five 10 hours a week on the campaign So far from full-time employees the other folks who left I think in each case it was People discovering maybe that the fit wasn't as good and finding other opportunities You know my finance director the former finance director emily mentioned, you know, she was with us for about six weeks And uh, unfortunately, we had a hard time working together And as soon as she found her way to other opportunities within two months our fundraising doubled Uh, and it wasn't work that she'd put in place This was work that we were able to do once we had the team clear of the challenges that we had Internally, you know, I I experienced some of my colleagues as unfortunately rowing in other directions and you know, that was true and everything from strategy conversations to Frankly just work product, you know It's challenging as a candidate. You're very reliant on your staff And you know when just to give an example, you know, you mentioned one of my colleagues like to get a set of postcards Ready to for me to send two supporters with the stamps on them and everything and they've been sent to the printers And a whole design process and all I'm supposed to do is sign them and drop in the mail and they all have a typo on them That's really frustrating And that's far short of any acceptable professional standard And that's kind of what I was dealing with the whole time And you know, I think people got frustrated with following short of my expectations and my responses I will say that uh, I was disappointed a lot. I wouldn't describe my feedback to my team from my perspective as gender But I also recognize that again, everybody has their own experience and and and I have to acknowledge the validity of the experience that they've shared Even if it wasn't one that I heard at the time And even if it wasn't one, you know, when each of those people left the team we checked in And in each case my understanding of it was we Had amically decided to part ways because I wanted to do something in our campaign that they weren't necessarily supportive of And I think that that reveals itself In the recent accusations, but I don't think that necessarily roots itself in misogyny I think that roots itself in a campaign disagreement that seems to be Lends itself to other terms. Sure. Sure Um, I'm still trying to pin down the amount of people who left so with regard to the high turnover rate That's kind of what I want to establish. So I've heard So many different numbers. I've heard 17 people left. I've heard 12 people left I've heard six people left So is it that in total like over the course of a short period of time a lot of people left or was the only Main campaign exodus after march 3rd. Has there been any other instances where there's been a large number of people collectively leave? Can you give us a general sense of the turnover? How frequently people leave because like people, you know with campaigns, they're fluid like people come and go all the All of the time what we're trying to pinpoint is if there's anything irregular with respect to your campaign Right and I would say there have been two ways There was a wave when we retooled after the primary when my former colleagues found their way to other opportunities And we brought in particularly veterans from bernie's campaign So we bought a bunch of people in to the campaign this spring after I won the primary Who had experience running a campaign at the scale that we're going to need to grow to to be the speaker of the house There was another wave as we were complying with uh, there was a law passed in california ab 5 Which changes the designation of contractors to employees And so we had to basically let some out-of-state contractors go people who are like making phone paid phone calls for us So that was another Wave but that was that had nothing to do with the campaign Or you know reflections on it. That was just compliance issue basically So there was a wave and when I say a wave after the primary it was about three months That the half dozen full-time employees left and we we didn't lose any more than that There were a number of contractors And you know the numbers that you were citing. I don't know. I've never heard 17 I don't even know if we've I guess we have had that many people if you count all the part-time folks But the the people who left after the primary were ultimately a handful And then it was not many more than that The the contractors who left included the intercept for instance included in their number Everyone who worked at the pr agency who worked on our campaign Including people who barely worked on our campaign They included people who'd spent like five hours a week writing emails They included people who you know a whole bunch of contractors who'd done like very specific pieces of work And the critical thing I'd say here in terms of that turnover one reason I was so glad for it to happen is because when the former staff ran the campaign there was a frustration for me in terms of encouraging those paid campaign staff To accept the help from skilled volunteers who had come out of the woodwork to support me And as a candidate part of my job is to secure support and any number of people with skills from writing to graphic design Organizing events came forward to help and reported to me a consistent challenge in my staff not letting them participate And so we were limited by the staff's insistence on settering themselves At the middle of the campaign and and the essence of our disagreement was my insistence that we let volunteers do the work ideally in a campaign that grows to scale the staff coordinates And coaches and hold space for volunteers to do the work because frankly I can't pay enough people to win the campaign But I have that much support if the people I paid would support those people And create structures and processes and teams But that was not the interest for my previous campaign staff And that's why we butted heads a lot and one reason we accelerated so much is that Each of those people found their way off in many cases We filled their shoes with volunteers And frankly, I have so many more people on the team now precisely because my current campaign staff recognizes the role as one to facilitate volunteer engagement To engage volunteers as opposed to perceive them as a threat or unreliable or flaky or all the things I heard from my former colleagues, you know a lot of this story has been presented in the press As workers concerned about their boss and at the end of the day I'm accountable to my volunteers and my donors and I have to deliver the campaign that they wanted and you know one that was being Claimed and limited by a staff that was unwilling to effectuate the vision You know, I wouldn't be doing right by my Supporters if I conceded to allow the campaign staff to limit the operation in that way So ultimately, you know that meeting after the primary the ensuing Trickle of departures and the people that we recruited to fill those the slots All of that I would describe as a growing pain It was certainly challenging at times But I did never experience that and nobody told me that they experienced it at the time or any time since until a few weeks ago as gender gender didn't seem to have any Role to play in the dynamic that was unfolding and and again, I'm So apologetic to the extent anybody experienced gender in this process and I was just very surprised to learn of it When it when it did come forward You know, I mean one of the things that was also challenging as the stories emerged was to hear from all the other volunteers who emerged With back stories claiming to have been approached by my former colleagues to participate in There uh, I I don't Even know what to call it. Uh, the volunteers had words of their own You know, one of them shared some texts that were very alarming to me to read texts between a campaign volunteer and my former staff And uh, you know, I those haven't been publicly reported to the extent You know, you have anything to say about them as a journalist. I'd be curious Yeah, I'm just getting them, um, right before this interview. I got them. So I got a chance to glance over them I will put them up on the screen But it's a red flag for me in the sense that It looks as if they're trying to rally people to a particular position For me, like I'm sensitive to the power imbalance between employers and employees Which is why, you know, we always want to really vet the claims of of People that are making, you know, when there's this this organizational hierarchy But in terms of like that type of Interpersonal relationships and drama that can occur organically I don't want to rule that out as well too because as I mentioned in the video I was a boss, um, shortly, you know, at blockbuster before it all closed down So for a couple of months, you know, I was in that position And you know, even though I'm still friends with everyone who were my co-workers today None of them accused me of being a bad boss, but when I look back to particular, uh, conversations that I had I think that I handled it completely inappropriate in the sense that I was really rude Like I was, um, a little bit too demanding. Um, just trying to fulfill the corporate goals So I wouldn't have to put in more time when I was already underpaid myself. So like, you know, it's We're trying to balance multiple things here and trying to get to the bottom of this and figure out like where the truth lies And whose experiences are, you know, are not just valid, but like Who really feels that they were wronged? Um Now on that note in terms of like The turnover and whatnot one of the individuals who had left is jasper willed She penned a medium post where um, she broadens the claim of misogyny And what she basically alleges is that she had helped you plan your sex schedule Now after speaking with one of your current campaign staffers They say what she referred to as a sex schedule was something as simple as a vacation between you and your girlfriend So can you respond to that because that to me is what caught me a little bit off off guard It's caught me off guard I it was uh alarming it It felt violating, uh, you know, my former campaign manager basically outed my relationship paradigm And you know, that wasn't something that I'd chosen to be public about And you know among my partners one of them in particular felt quite aggrieved by feels quite aggrieved by this Characterization of ultimately like us having you know, I'd work seven days a week and I'd work six nights a week and Usually campaign managers manage a candidate schedule. And so when someone would ask me when we could have dinner I wouldn't necessarily know and on at least, you know, a couple occasions Jasper is the person who said when I'd be available to have a night off work And then the idea that that's presumed To be about sex and then that it's published, you know, it just certainly felt I mean, I don't know what to say about it really. I'm just I'm just I'm just running a campaign Yeah, when I initially read the workplace Story, I was a little bit conflicted because I didn't have all of the details Having said that I'm I'm moving closer to This just being like a big question mark because again, I wasn't there and I'm an outsider And I just I see competing claims against people but I think that we're We're still going to always have that open question And you know, you you kind of admit or alluded to the fact that you're a little bit of a tough boss Um, and we're all human beings. So I mean, what can you say to people? Just right there. I I wouldn't say that I'm a tough boss. I just insist on quality you know, I I'm I hold myself to a high standard and I want my team to make sure that we're meeting professional standards You know typos and printed material are not acceptable blocking volunteers from participating and extending the campaign That's not acceptable. I don't think it's being a tough boss To simply maintain basic standards on a campaign. I I don't think that is Makes me a tough boss and I don't think that my current colleagues would perceive me as a tough boss You know, I but I would someone listening would say well, that's something a tough boss would say I insist on quality. Well, what's your standards? Are they up here? Are they like acceptable? So that's why I'm just curious like in terms of you as as an individual because people are going to make mistakes everyone is a human being like In terms of you like I'm I this is difficult because I'm kind of asking you to critique yourself as a leader You know in this organization not like as a leader in terms of like the congressional level But just as a leader of this group of people. I don't know how many are there a hundred, you know a few dozen Um, you know, is there anywhere where you think that you could make some improvements particularly after hearing these criticisms Some of which you don't agree with some of which are, you know puzzling to you Such as the misogyny claim like just in terms of yourself if you could be introspective and critique yourself Um, what do you think you could you could do better to assure people that you know, this isn't going to be an issue if there was an issue So one of them in terms of the opportunities for me to learn and grow from all this that I've taken very seriously Is the need to be very cautious with my feedback and particularly to include in critical feedback positive encouragement to Noting the areas where people are getting it right, you know to make sure that I've heard this described as the feedback sandwich And just making sure that critical feedback is couched in terms that reinforce the overarching You know Goal of the working relationship. So that's a concrete opportunity. I've you know learned That opportunity another one that for me has been really critical is the need to when proposing opportunities to my staff to Suggest them as invitations as distinct from directives And you know that begets just a very different opportunity for people to own and co-own those ideas And you know, that's just an organizing principle and I apply it to my volunteers You know the opportunity to apply that across the team Is one that's proven opportune And that's one frankly that I've long done with folks on the team who align with the vision and when we heads around the strategic vision It's very difficult to find tactical alignment And so that's really where a lot of these tensions. I think adhered I've learned a lot about hiring processes and what to vet for when hiring folks around not just a willingness to take on a target But a shared fidelity to a vision and a movement You know, I hired professional campaign operatives for what is a movement grassroots campaign And the grassroots and the movement orientations were not ones that the professional campaign operatives shared So I now have new campaign operatives who share that vision And that's a really important a more important thing for me to have tested for originally Then simply skill set plus willingness to take on Pelosi You know, those are some of the Things I've learned in this process You know, I've also learned about the distinction between intent and impact and whatever my intent to treat people Equally on the basis of all characteristics I've also learned about How impacts can be internalized differently I've also learned what it's like to be, you know, this is the first time For me as a man of color that I've been falsely accused And I've learned a lot about what racism looks like in practice And how a race to judgment and an unwillingness to consider facts You know, there's there are groups that have endorsed me dis endorsed me recently rescinded their endorsements After affirmatively declining to consider any facts and rejecting evidence rejecting witnesses racing to judgment And you know, all I can say here is that I'm really grateful that it's not any worse for me I'm far from the first man of color to be falsely accused of a sexual impropriety by white women And and I'm glad that It hasn't been any worse for me It's been a lot worse for some of those other people who had to deal with that experience in the past And I think that for a city as progressive As san francisco and you know bodies that include socialists To have effectively embraced A racist willingness to privilege accusation before fact and process and truth For me, it's been very disappointing to witness so many people fall prey to that Allure and you know, we have processed for a reason and and and I certainly am inclined to Let people's truth be heard. I think that's different than Raced to judgment on the basis of everything that one hears Yeah, and I'm actually glad that you touched on that because I watched an interview with alex morris who is another congressional candidate who is basically Being criticized by college democrats in his state and he touches on this point That I think is really important that you just touched on about implicit biases when vetting these types of claims And how we have to ensure due process, especially for historically marginalized communities Because in his instance, he brought up the point something that I can identify with personally of gay men kind of being perceived to be like You know predatory, you know and promiscuous and the same is attributed to people of color So I think that when you made this initial claim The way that you responded immediately and you know asked for due process I think that was commendable because what we kind of see With other leaders in this country when they're accused of something like this, especially ones with privilege like joe biden, for example Which are far more serious, but just you know as an example They just pretend like it doesn't exist whereas people of color. They don't have that luxury, you know So i'm glad that you're bringing this up because I think it's an important component That's crucial and it's something that we have to consider when we are vetting these types of claims Another thing that you brought up that I empathized with was you know Your criticisms of yourself as a boss because as you list these things I kind of like I empathize with that because like there's no Handbook on how to be a good or effective boss And I feel like everyone who is in that position of power in that workplace just face plans immediately I consider myself, you know as someone like that as well. I'm not saying that's the same thing for you But it's it's a learning experience And you know trying to reorient yourself, you know learning about the individuality of each person who you're working with It is a learning process. It's tricky. Um, so like I really appreciate you Speaking to that because I know it's not difficult. It sucks that you're you've been on the defensive now For the majority of this for the entirety of this interview Um when your campaign really is historic so Um in terms of the workplace issue for me, I think that this In my opinion, I feel better about it after hearing from you and from some of your staffers Although there's going to be, you know residual concern about that But I mean, I think people have to make the decision For themselves in that district me as someone who isn't in that state. I won't be able to cast a vote So I think, you know, this is something that voters are going to have to decide for themselves. One, um Area that I want to move on to is the Elizabeth Croydon allegations where in my video I ultimately concluded that there wasn't enough evidence and the credibility, um Was something that I was concerned with because she had also made allegations of other people Uh, she accused them of being a witch. She accused someone of knowingly spreading hiv to people um, so to me, um, I have a couple of questions just to Ask you about with regard to that because this to me It seems like there's a lot of people in that san francisco activist area That's like in the same social circle So I'm curious. So you had a great open letter penned on your behalf by individuals like margaret flowers Like madia benjamin Do they know Elizabeth Croydon personally of your knowledge because they made some pretty serious allegations against her Um, and I'm curious. Can you confirm that they know Elizabeth Croydon or were they just speaking on your behalf? um Tell us about that dynamic there because that's something that I don't know personally Yeah, I don't want to speak to other people's experience. Everybody who wrote that letter does know both me and liz Okay, Liz wrote a set of accusations that Involve social settings and so one might think that the people in those social settings might have seen what she described And so all those people wrote a letter to say This didn't happen. Uh, and when you were describing some of the things, uh, the Uh, there are other journalists that have started exploring the facts that evaded the san francisco chronicle and the intercepts reporting jackville and thompson in particular has Uncovered a great many things and all I knew about liz was my experience with her and which included a series of accusations going back 10 years You know, Liz Croydon has accused me of murdering one of my best friends. She's accused me of human trafficking This was long before the recent harassment Alligation and just to be clear my former staff is why liz Croydon's Story came out. They we know that they coordinated with her to bring her story out Even though Liz Croydon's background as everyone who's known her has attested in public Suggest perhaps that these accusations are grounded in something other than truth, um I Other people have written about this and I'm not going to attack my accuser or impugn them But I would invite you to read any of the things that have been read You know, gloria berry here in san francisco wrote a really important piece about The issues with my former staff jacklin's written a series of really important pieces about liz As we're describing liz. I think the part of the discussion that's gotten lost in the conversation Is how it got presented as related to my staff's concerns in the first place right and I said before that when my staff had moved on to other opportunities I'd never heard anything about gender treatment. My impression is that when my staff became convinced I was a misogynist is when they found Liz Croydon And the idea that Liz's allegations would turn people I'd employed to then think that I am a predator such that they would then spread her false accusations And use them to promote Their own re characterization of their experience with me Uh, you know, all of it is disappointing and and at least reflective of very interesting dynamics and journalism That I think would lend themselves to metastories, you know, how these things came to light Who did the embargoed press releases come from in the first place? How was there such sophistication? Around this, uh, you know, I think those are interesting questions that I'm eager for someone to explore and investigate Yeah, and you alluded to this, but you can confirm that Jacqueline Thompson does in fact know Elizabeth Croydon Jacqueline does not as well. Uh, no, maybe she does. I Jacqueline is the person who penned the six-part medium piece as a journalist as far as I know I am Jacqueline Jacqueline approached me after the stories ran and I think she said that she had either I think she might have her own story with Liz. There's a Los Angeles scene with Liz that I had no nothing about I only know Liz from dc. Okay And I know the other people in dc and myself who she's alleged to various things But the Los Angeles community was entirely new to me uh, and san francisco press reported her accusations as if Yeah, I'm the first person she's ever accused and and and and even people mean one of the things about this I found most alarming you were referring a minute ago I didn't get a chance to respond to your comment about jasper's latest medium piece Where she describes in it. She she she says something about being disappointed that the campaign she worked on Uh, would be embroiled in sexual assault claims and just to be clear No one's ever alleged that of me and the only person who's alleged anything Liz who my former staff brought forward Alleged harassment. So my staff is literally misrepresenting even the allegations that they themselves brought forward and this exaggeration Beyond induendo. There's no actual incident that anybody's been able to point to and so this exaggeration of allegation Beyond even what the accusation was at the first point And none of the accusations are are grounded in fact, certainly with respect to liz again acknowledging that if people Experience misogyny in the workplace. I acknowledge their experience and I apologize for it At least the facts that they're grounding those experiences on are wildly misrepresented and that's true in both parts of the story, unfortunately Um, and and I do find that As a person of color falsely accused standing at the center of it more than a little disappointing That's basically what I wanted to establish with regard to uh, that story because I think there's enough there to where you can say We definitely need more evidence. Um, but there was a lot of people who made allegations against croydon And I just wanted to confirm that these people do know and they're not just like randos You know making these claims to me. What was a red flag? It's alleged anything of liz as far as I know Not that I've seen there's been reporting about other people's Uh being accused by Right, right, right. What I've seen is um, they've Claimed that she's made false accusations and has you know harassed people and whatnot, but we won't get into that I don't want to attack her or smear her Um, but for me, I was trying to establish, you know That these people did in fact know elizabeth croydon's because of what they're saying You know, is there validity validity to that and it does seem like that tends to be the case to me What was the um, you might want to just ask jacklyn about that because I don't know those people sure sure I've just Okay, okay. Yeah, I was I wasn't sure about that. That's where I got the bulk of the information About croydon from was from jackwilliam But then there was also other individuals who were within that dc activist circle and I'm assuming within the la San francisco circle who knew her as well So there's like this huge web that I'm trying to connect and it just gets really confusing after a while So I just wanted to at least that a minimum established that they did have that interpersonal relationship So that way we're not just reporting what some like random person had said on twitter But for me the reason why I wanted to wait was because almost immediately when I found out about the Original allegation that she had brought forward with the article There were tweets that people had screencapped where there's really racially coded language used against you that had really It stood out in my mind now because someone Uses racially coded language that doesn't necessarily mean that it's impossible that they're victims of something but You know, you have to basically allow due process That's that's the entire point and I think that like thoroughly vetting all of this from a journalistic standpoint is important And I should note that I'm not a journalist. I'm a political commentator I just took hours and hours and hours to go through all of these different like posts and tweets And it's it's complicated, right? But you know at the end of the day I as I stated earlier people have to decide for themselves within your district And I just want to kind of give you the final word because we've gone through a bevy of different accusations against you And I think that we owe it to you to kind of Use this platform to say what you need to before we close to anyone who Has heard this about you and you know, just kind of Speak your piece Allow yourself the chance to defend yourself because we have quotes from the intercept from you But you know, that's selectively edited. I don't necessarily know Whether or not you would you would say that they accurately accurately represent your position But just basically take it away Unedited and let us know what you want us to know about this situation overall to kind of put a A bow on this at this point Thank you, Mike And I would say even if you don't consider yourself a journalist or doing a much better job of uncovering the facts than the people who do I'm trying Yeah, I appreciate that You know, again, I was surprised By what I learned and read about in the press and it alarmed me precisely because I'm I'm not Eager to replicate the problems in the world that we're all trying to fight to overcome And and among those frankly or gender discrimination and In the patriarchy, I'm not trying to replicate those things. And so I was very Disturbed by the idea that anyone would have experienced me In those terms and it's one reason why I've spent so much time both reflecting and checking in with people Over, you know, I've worked with her for years to check in and learn from that And that's something I take really seriously and as I've learned more facts Particularly from the campaign volunteers who've come forward to report their own experiences Their experiences with my former staff when we work together Their experiences with my former staff since they left the campaign In the weeks preceding in the days preceding these articles coming out those particularly alarmed me You know, you talked about the need for vetting I think these stories not only were not vetted, but how the stories came to light has not been vetted And there is a story there that has not been reported You know to see so many local organizations You know from the tenants union to democratic socialists of america effectively embrace institutional racism by ignoring facts And openly privileging Accusation and relationship over any fidelity or pretense to care about what the truth is Has been especially disappointing. I mean so many people who You know presented themselves to me as allies and supporters Have been willing to effectively just take the first accusation and presume its legitimacy And as a person of color and an immigrant challenging the most powerful white woman on the planet at the moment It is very disturbing to be Presumed guilty without any shred of fact to back it up And I you know for me it's disappointing not just about like those supporters But it is very disappointing for me about what it indicates about our country I fear maybe that we get the democracy we deserve and I hope for it to be better than that It's why i'm running and I'd say that it's very opportune Whatever else one might say for the speaker of the house for two months to be remaining Until ballots are going to draw for the vote by mail month and she's not You know at least I what I'm talking about at the moment is is this set of allegations and not her continuing support for corporate rule and The climate catastrophe that continues to unfold the pandemic with its various racial and economic disparities the coming eviction Crisis that is already unfolding around the country because corporate democrats aren't showing up for our communities And I'd rather frankly be talking about that and the opportunity to get san francisco a voice in congress aligned with our city Instead of you know, just noting the fact that I do in fact I have in fact I will continue to embody the principles I espouse And for people who care enough about the facts to investigate them To care enough about the truth not to race to judgment on the basis of false accusation I think that fidelity will Reveal itself and and I'm grateful for everybody who has to stuck with me through these accusations and and been willing to consider All sides of the story instead of just what was included at the beginning Yeah, yeah, and thank you so much for saying that. Um, I appreciate you choosing to You know come on and actually clarify all of these things You know, usually when I reach out to politicians and I ask for a response and on the record response I don't expect to reply But what I got from you and your team was we'll come on the show Which is something that has never happened. Um, usually when you criticize someone Even if you you try to present yourself in a good faith manner, you know, it's difficult because we're human beings We recoil at, you know people Saying things about us that are Are bad, right? So, you know, I appreciate the fact that you took the time to really explain after I posted a video Where basically I was critical of you, you know, that that means a lot It speaks to you, you know, really caring and committing to You know getting the truth out there and I appreciate the fact that you're still fighting And challenging Nancy Pelosi because what's at stake in the selection? It's just it's so much that we can't overlook that like the amount of people Quite frankly who are going to die because they don't have healthcare who will be evicted That's something that we can't, you know overlook and be distracted by So, you know, I I appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to come in and speak about all of this I know it's uncomfortable And awkward but you know the fact that you're here, I think it speaks a lot That means a lot to me man. I appreciate the forum and I ran for office, you know I expected for there to be uncomfortable moments. I didn't expect this set of circumstances to emerge, right? This is hardly what I Necessarily thought I was signing up for but I will say that, you know, the chance to learn and grow in public Is a welcome one The chance to see the truth emerge After being accused as an especially welcome one. So thank you for being an agent of the truth You know, there's been it's been in short supply in San Francisco over the last few weeks But I'm glad to see it start to emerge Yeah, yeah as as long as we get as close as we possibly can to the objective truth Then I think that I've done my job as like a commentator at informing my audience Um, and I felt the need to speak out because I had endorsed you and not just endorsed you and interviewed you But made videos where you know, I'm promoting you. I felt like I was obligated to speak out Um, but not just you know, because I had to be consistent in terms of like the way I respond to these types of allegations Under this big umbrella, but because I think that you know, seeing this I was concerned that nobody had properly vetted all of this when there's so much counter information out there And to me I felt like this presented an opportunity to maybe like Try to find out what's happening, you know, so um, that's that's my uh, that's my attempt here So I hope that this was illuminating for a lot of people who watched. Um, again Shahid, thank you so much for coming on Thanks for having me Mike