 Are you about ready? Maybe they didn't have the sales. Have they seen Crowley? Ladies, are you about ready? Yes. Ladies, what's up? Yes. OK? Yes. It's off, though. Welcome to the Essex Junction trustee meeting. Please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance. Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Welcome, everybody. And if you haven't signed in, please do so. And first order of business, agenda additions, subtractions? I wish, sir. There are five additions. It's never a subtraction. No, there isn't. I'm sorry. First order is agenda item 5A. It's a correction to the recreation bond payment memo that you received in your electronic packet. And new business item 6C, it's correspondence from Alex McEwing regarding the two hour limit for parking in front of 34 Park Street. Agenda addition to the reading file, 8i. It's from Brenda Bennett, who has nice things to say about the work that was done recently in our paving. Top quality, efficient, smooth, and remarkable were four words that came to her immediately. Which is good to know. And then reading file 8J, it's from Susan McNamara Hill. And she is stepping away from the SXRXU Community Advisory Board. And then lastly, the memo should you need to use executive session for personnel, the recommended motions approved by Dave Barra. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Do I have a motion? Is that as amended? Second. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Great. Agenda is amended as directed. So first order of business. Public comments, anyone in the public? Raj Dilling, you both good. So first order of business is Lieutenant Robert Kissinger, Essex Police. And we're going to be discussing traffic safety at five corners. Welcome. Thanks for coming here this evening. I appreciate you taking the time off. Do you want to come up here and join us? And I'll probably do my best to reintroduce the subject. And it's timely because some of them are from the Bike Walk Committee here too, because I think what we were talking about is traffic safety at five corners. And is there something we could be doing differently? Maybe not just in terms of enforcement, but in terms of other things, other infrastructure, lights, signs of pavement marking, something like that. We're trying to find a solution. We've had an increase of people running red lights. And we've tried reworking signs with AOTs and now the pedestrian crossing comes after the Pearl Street traffic instead of the Maple Street traffic. Route 15 is the main corridor, so anyone trying to go in and out of Chittin County has got to come through Essex, if they're not taking the interstate. That's part of the problem that we have. The traffic is split between the Susie Wilson Road bypass and the five corners. Then you have all the traffic coming from Willis, and this is kind of a congestion hotspot. We're trying to work with AOT further to have all the lights be in sync on Park Street. They're not quite always in sync. And once you have the light trip out here at Koi, that backs things up to the five corners. So there's pretty much a gridlock at the five corners. And I think everybody's been victim of that. So we're trying to tweak things here and there best we can to try and alleviate the problems that we're having. Did it seem to get worse because of the paving? We were kind of thinking that maybe the smooth, since there are so many routes in the road, people can go faster. What? Yeah, I don't see an increase of speed. The traffic picks up always when the school comes back in session, whether it be college or local schools. You have double-enough traffic trying to get through to drop kids off. The school are going to work. Yes, please. Take over. Next question. How about non-structural things? So more along the lines of education or public service announcement or signs, do you, from your experience, think anything we could do in that regard and not just five corners, but all over the community? There seems to be a lot of speeding, running, stop signs. Public service announcements would definitely help, I think. Signs, you get to the point where you have too many signs which become oblivious. We've tried using speed centuries to help be proactive, using speed centuries, helps validate people's claim to speeding and helps us use resources wisely as far as putting officers there at specific times instead of a general complaint of speeding in the neighborhood. So we try to use that to be proactive for the speed complaints as best we can. And after a while, you see people get oblivious to the signs, even though flash is the speed, they just, you know, they tune that after a while. So I don't think signage is going to be our best measure of preventive maintenance on speeding and red light violations. How about what is the, I don't know if there's a general policy or a practice on enforcement? So ticketing versus warnings versus, you know, just having a conversation. Do you think if there was, and I don't know what it is, so general question, if there were more tickets being given out, would that settle things down? I don't think it would because people get ticket for speeding and they still speed. They don't pay attention. Currently it's the officer discretion where the people get a warning or a ticket. Most officers will take into the individual's past history. If they have a clean driving record, they'll probably get a warning. If they've had a very colorful traffic history, then more than likely they'll probably get a ticket for that violation. Does the warning go into the system so that the next time they're stopped, do you know that there's been a warning given or is, does that not even go into the system? Everything goes in the system. We do not give verbal warnings on occasion. That might warn it, but most are things written. So there it is something. There's two different systems going on. Right now, Chittin County, there's two different systems going on. We use the one that the state police used to operate. Burlington has one that they operate with all the other agencies in Chittin County, Valcor. So sharing of the information is not as fluent as one would hope. But we can find out if they have a history that takes a little more to get into that system. So why are we operating two different systems? I can't answer that question. I have an idea. It's because they wanted certain aspects to their system and the current system didn't do that. Our now new system has caught up to Valcor. With changes in there. Other questions? Is there anything that we can do in terms of striping or other, not even infrastructure related, but actually just painting on the streets to sort of focus people and slow them down? Everything has to be standardized by highway safety guidelines, so adding additional markings I don't think is going to be permissible in the federal guidelines for road markings and lane markings. What if we put a big sign in the corner of five, in the middle of five corners? I'm serious. It'll make people slow down. What would the sign say? Slow down. Okay. Follow the rules, I don't know, but it would get people's attention for a day. Is it speeding or is it people going through the red light? That's kind of what I've heard, it's not so much speeding, it's that people get up there and they're going through. They're flying through the light. And then I do want to reiterate, my concern isn't just the five corners. I walk a lot in the community, when the high school gets out, those kids are flying down North Street, Grove Street, Educational Drive, Old Cultist Road, and they don't care who's in the way. So for me, it's not just five corners, I thought that's what we're focused on tonight. Sounds like the high school should have some. Do you work with high school? Is there any, I know there's a safety coordinator in the high school, right? There is. Okay. The lower. And is there any coordination between PD and that person? We usually talk with him weekly on other issues, but it's pretty much whatever is needed to be discussed is brought up with Mr. LaWare. In the past, we've had residents complain about speed, and we've actually put this monitors on, on the surrounding streets, Mansfield, to try and get an idea of what speeds are being achieved on those streets. The speed bumps have helped a little bit, but yeah, they still. I know they want to get out of school, but thank you. Just to follow up on Mr. LaWare was contacted by yours truly to come here tonight, but he had planned a two week vacation in the wilds of Canada for hunting. Good for him. So he was unable to join. But we could maybe get him some other time? Again, another time. He said he'd be available. Well, it sounds to me like other than alleviating the congestion is not a whole lot we can do. We can try some public outreach, but I'm gonna guess that probably a lot of the people aren't from around here. We're not gonna, we can try to reach them, but they're not, they're beyond our reach. Yeah, I'd say, and I have some traffic, so I'll commute your traffic. Wow, that much. So along those lines though, with what you're saying before about the database and how there's two different ones, we're the only ones that don't have what like Burlington is using. They all left, so it's a web-based program. We currently use Spillman, which was brought on by the state 20 something years ago. And the improvements to Spillman was limited by funds. That has since changed, and they've made all the improvements that needed. Valkor has its own issues and problems. That's why we have not moved out Spillman to go to that system. But for those drivers who have a colorful record that's in one system, you pull them over and there's nothing in our system. Is it then that the officer, if they don't check the other system or take that extra step, could then go on without being taken care of in the way that they maybe need to? No, when we run a license check, we would see that through Department of Motor Vehicles. We wouldn't necessarily see the warnings, but we would see all the tickets that they've gotten previously. So they wouldn't necessarily go away without any type of enforcement. There was a hand up. Raj, do you want to ask a question? Yeah, it's just the other day being one of those people who tries not to have to drop his kid at PDL as much as humanly possible. I had to the other day. Called PD because there was a, why did I do this in here? Oh, a white truck that basically went in the left lane from Elm Street all the way to Five Corners at quite great speed. Two kids had to come back up off the street when they were crossing. And this isn't a new occurrence. I realized the pylon's gone, although that creeps up all year long because people move it or hit it. And I know the crossing connector's coming in, but there's a lot of, I think there actually is a lot the community can do over the next four or five years. There's a lot of structural road and sidewalk altering and buffers that can be produced. And I really encourage you guys to look into some of that over the next four or five years, especially after the crossing connector's built. Narrowing streets, narrowing intersections, making it difficult for people to go fast. We'll do a lot just to slow people down. And we heard from the bicycle officers that you guys have, the students, that do the summers really, that we have a lot of problems with students popping out of Maple Street and the street and their bikes riding the wrong way. That whole corridor down there is really dangerous. And I would say, you guys had to put anybody anywhere, anytime. It's in the morning. I noticed the two officers riding plates down in the morning. I don't know if they follow up or not, but they do seem interested in, they're paying attention. But having another officer on one of those side streets, just kind of watching people be idiots. Yeah. Yeah. And there's, I mean, there's, it's, it's a miracle we haven't had a kid taking out a week here in just a marathon. The part, the property of talking with Maple Street, people cutting into the oncoming traffic to make the, to get across the tracks so they can take the left-hand turn. And off educational drive, when they come out and they come up to the intersection, that's a weird intersection by the tracks and divvy up into the neighborhood. They're flying through there. Yeah. You know, and to Raj's point, so if, if signs lose their effectiveness and enforcement loses their effectiveness and 90% of the traffic is outside of S6, so public service announcements are gonna lose their effectiveness, then, then we do need to start looking at structural things to slow traffic down. And, you know, I'm sorry to say, because that would be a public outcry as well that was slowing traffic down, but we are walking and biking community. And I think it's really important that the village maintain that designation because there's few of them in Vermont left and it brings people here and it also gives the village some vibrancy to it. And I don't, I don't know, you know, who's out and about, but a lot more people are walking in this community now. And it's great. And we need to make sure we're doing everything we can to help protect that. My great point. That's a good point. That's a good point. No, I was just gonna say, I agree with Lori. You know, the bone, whatever the ball bout or whatever ball bouts on the road down here by the railroad tracks, maybe about 10 years ago they put those and they pushed it out. It does slow the traffic down, but it's also, it's a double-edged story. We're biking and walking community. We're also the major thoroughfare for, like Lieutenant is saying, for commuter traffic coming out of Hunter Hill Jericho, Cambridge, and Westford and other towns. And short of a circumvential highway that would relieve a boat load of that traffic made especially the big trucks were stuck with what we've got. And we do have to be kind of some of the fact that we are a major throughway for other communities. But my first priority is to people of Essex Junction and to the kids that are out on streets. Oh, I agree with you. I agree with you. And I'm just saying that it's, but there's no clear-cutting until you try the best you can and it's not gonna get any better because the amount of people is increasing or the traffic has increased over the 30 years that I've been in law enforcement and the 20 some odd he's been in law enforcement. I just, I just wish, I'm sorry Pat, I just wish, sorry. I just, we go to St, I go to St. Albans, I go to Montpelier. People stop. I think you see that when you're there, but I think, I grew up in Montpelier. Well. I'm from Montpelier, I'm from the state and I'm telling you right now, I see the same things go on everywhere. And I've traveled the state but controlled the state. It happens, maybe you don't see it when you're there but it does happen. I guarantee you. But I don't think it happens at the frequency that it happens. But I think the thing you've got to, I'm not, I'm not disagreeing with it. And I think we need to do a shotgun approach, try anything. But the thing that's different here is that if you, if you're going to like St. Albans, then you're going to St. Albans. People here are going from Williston and they're going up to Jericho and we're just in the way. And they have a different mindset. To change that perspective. I would encourage you to remember though that our scheme of it is 25. Yep. Most of the way through the village in all directions. Yep. We're just asking people to slow down with that. Yep. So by narrowing roads and doing all that, you're basically not slowing them down beyond 25. You're telling them they have to be more alert. And you're telling them they have to be more careful because they're driving in a narrower space. Yeah. So they should only expect to get a certain throughput through a village that has a 25 mile an hour speed in over two months. I agree with you guys. So, you know, if we're slowing them down, great, we're getting them back to where they should be. And maybe we'll find another way to get them through. But for now, you know, that's, and we're also not talking on the main, all of always the main thoroughfares. All the main societies as well. That whole neighborhood between there. It's kind of street and all that. It's street to go the wrong way. It's just, you know, I hear what you're saying now. I just think that, you know, getting them to where they should be is still a challenge. Yeah. Your question about the lieutenant. Are there automated ways to detect speed violations running up red lights, running those stop lights that are then forced off sign that are then enforceable and that can then be ticketable at the beginning of race? There are systems that are available. There are none currently in Vermont. We'd have to see if the traffic bureau would entertain that because you'd be writing tickets based on automated visual pictures of license plate and drivers. If you cannot visually see that driver, you would not be able to essentially mail a ticket out. So that's something that would have to be looked into to see if the traffic bureau would even entertain that type of proportion. But that technology is available. I got a ticket that way. Someone's got to be interested. In another state. Yeah. And I'm putting myself out here and I'm only one experience that when I was in my early 20s, I did speed and I did get a lot of tickets and I did lose my license and I don't speed and I wear my seatbelt. And I'm much more cognizant of what's going around me because of that experience. So I don't want people to lose their license, but I do feel enforcement for some are going to make a difference, you know. Well, people, where do you want to take? Oh, sorry, Pat. Just like to add one more dimension to this discussion that is the human dimension. We are sorely in need of additional patrol officers. And I'm going to adjust that in part with a multi-year approach. And following up on Raj's multi-year approach for the infrastructure solution, I think we need more, I know we need more people as to matter how many we can afford and how to incrementally push that through. So hold on to these great thoughts and time meeting time when it comes time to look for them. Yeah, I think it's a good point to make and probably it's good message to get up to people at town meeting time. If you, we do need more enforcement and if you want to address this one of the ways, it's not going to solve everything, but one of the ways is to support. It's just one more piece to the puzzle to try to Yeah, okay. Good point. Save some current with the problem. So other thoughts, where do you want to take this guys? Do you want to continue this discussion and talk about some infrastructure things as well? And now that we have some enforcement perspective. I think if we're going to talk about the kids in the school, I think getting a former lieutenant from Burlington police bill aware who works there as a resource officer, the safety officer would be great to have an impact there. And any, the public forums, when we do, when we have town meeting, village meetings, bring this up to the people that show up, keep hammering at home, you know? It's, it's, it will always be there. You know, speeding, I was on a traffic safety team for the state for many, many years. And we'd hit an area and we'd have an effect on that area. But then, you know, it's, it's, it's like weeds growing up and you, you pull the weeds and they come back and you just keep, it's something that just continues. Right, yeah, I agree with you. And there's no one solution. Right. And, and we're going to have to, we're going to keep having this conversation, but. Yes. I would love to see Bill, Bill come in and do to us as well. Okay. And let's, you know, let's maybe at some point have Rick Hamlin come in and see if he's got some innovative ideas about something. Yeah. That'd be good. In terms of new, new infrastructure projects as they occur around five corners and other parts of the village that there's some little thing that can be, that can happen, that would help. Well, and to that point, I'm wondering if there's any data on, besides five corners, any data that the police can provide on areas that seem to attract more problems than others. So that we're not, you know, we're trying to tackle some of the, the major areas, not do the whole village. I don't know if that's. Are you looking for speed complaints? We'll type both. Speed and running of red lights and. Stop signs. Stop signs and going the wrong way on one way streets and I mean, anything that you might have just to help us narrow our focus. So that we have, if we can target some high stress areas, we could maybe make some more immediate progress and then move on to other areas. Right off my head, South Street, West Street is another big one because of traffic over global boundaries and subsequent people trying to mistify corners. We'll also take that route and that's usually heavily enforced for, for speed. So I'm not sure what we can do as far as enforcement. Maybe we'll slow down on that one. What if you could honestly. Just going to say the, the, the radar units that are set up there to post speed as people approach. I think those Lieutenant have had a big impact. I travel that road all the time because I live right off of South Street and go up to West Street and it has had impact I believe on the speed. Just like. They're great tools. Yeah. I mean, I'm flashing and it really does people to look and slow down. Yeah, they do. And I just go back to the automated piece where if you're able to get the same number of citations with an automated system that can then free up officers to do all these things. It's true. Then that's two birds with one stone because you're able to then free you guys to do things. Another person to take care of that, you would safely say probably writing in excess of 50 tickets or more a day from an automated system. I'm sorry, can you say that again? You'd have to hire another person to be able to take its full time to write them and issue them if the traffic bureau doesn't. But if you were to put those out at different locations where there are traffic control signals, you would probably get 50 a day. Wow. I don't know what the cost is. Is that even something that comes out to close to a wash or? For a person? But the other thing, it's probably something that has to be approved by the state of Vermont to allow for that just because of the laws, like the Lieutenant's saying with traffic enforcement and how you can testify in court and can use that. There's a lot of hoops that have to be gone through before you can even see that. I know what you're talking about. It happens actually on the interstate system in Florida and other states where they've done away with the tolls. So now it takes a picture of the vehicle as you're going through and they send the ticket to you. So it's done in other places, but... So the hoops have been jumped through? It's just someone in Vermont. And Vermont hasn't, yeah. They've got to prove it at the state level. Only our state legislators were here today. And we're the passengers of the video. And passengers. See what I can do. Okay. Any other questions for...? Thank you for all that you're doing. We appreciate it. I know it's not an easy job. Thank you very much for coming. I appreciate it. Thanks. We'll continue this conversation with this other discussion. Okay. Report to report from Vermont. Okay, so we are now on to old business. I think that was it right for, yes, the presentations around the old business acknowledgment of the assumption of debt. Lauren. Yes. So when we took on, me, the Recreation Department, part of the Village Municipality, we also budgeted for their pool debt. But the Vermont Municipal Bond Bank would like an official acknowledgement of the fact that we are going to be taking responsibility for that pool debt. And that's what this memo is about, is for us to assume this debt. And you just need to sign on it. Yeah. Accept it. Okay. And Pat, you told me that this is not the, this has already been into, this is not going to represent a bump. This is, the bump has already happened It's already been absorbed. Yes. Which wasn't really a bump because shifted from one to the other. It all took place in July of, it's going to be here. It's going to be paid off in short fashion too. And then we'll, yeah, we'll be done in F-4-20. Yeah. Which would be a good thing. Yeah. Okay. Do I hear a motion, or I can make the motion. I will move that we, the trustees formally resolve to acknowledge assumption of the VMVB indebtedness evidenced by the 1999 series one slash 2009 series two refunded bond and to the fullest extent permitted by law unconditionally and irrevocably pledged the full faith and credit of the village for the payment of the same in accordance with the terms thereof. I hope everyone knows exactly what that means. I'll second it. Dan seconded. Any further discussion or questions? All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Great. Thank you. Thank you. Now he has to sign it now too. So we, now do we have another old business? We're all in new business now in a general business. Let's see, let's see, let's see. There's no old business on the editions. So we are on to new business and item number one is discussed the recent front porch forum posting and I'll do that. That was my, I put that in here and what I was initially gonna just put this in the reading file. If you read the, is everyone familiar with the posting that occurred because it was very disturbing. I mean, it's fine for people to get angry. I thought about people's comments and ideas and plans and dreams and so forth but when the comments get personal and derisive and verbally abusive, they should not be published or they at least shouldn't be published by an online newsletter that we financially contribute to. We can't be inviting people to come to our public meetings and as part of the public meeting process they get made fun of in a medium that we support. So I wrote a letter to front porch forum and I think Nina Chill wrote back and she did apologize and slipped through the cracks. They should not have allowed that comment to have been published because the person in question was a private citizen and you can't say stuff like that about private citizens and they acknowledged the error. So I was, and I appreciated their apology and I told Nina, I appreciated it and I was then gonna just put it all in the reading file but I wanted to just read about it and just have a little bit of discussion so that we're on record because I am concerned with the volume that goes through front porch forum and that's something that's gonna happen again and if it were to happen again or to keep happening I think we'd really need to think about some additional action. So I don't know, Elaine did you have some thoughts about this? No, I'm really happy that from porch forum stepped up and acknowledged the situation because generally they're very hands off about comments. So that's a really good thing and I agree that we should keep an eye out and this is just something that isn't really supportable. No, it wasn't, it wasn't supportable at all. Can I just make one comment? Yes, please. So I agree, the postings should not have been allowed and I'm thankful that you reached out and talked to them about it and we do need to monitor it but I firmly believe that Mr. Handy in this regard is not a private citizen. He's coming to build a development. He could also take action on this as well and so my concern is that we just remember that. He's a public citizen on this. That's my first low opinion. And maybe when you're in a public hearing everything that you say and do is part of the public record so I get that but there was no need for the comments. There was absolutely no need for the comments, no. But I want to make sure that we're focusing on the fact that the comment should not have been personal and should not have been posted that people are not thinking we are trying to protect Mr. Handy. I am, I have absolutely no problem with anyone. Anyone's ideas, comments, statements, words being treated completely disrespectfully. It doesn't really matter. I don't care, that's fine. When we start attacking someone's appearance and to take it to the extreme if someone came and if someone with a disability came and they were made fun of them. That's the extreme example. This isn't quite that bad but it's still in that vein. You just don't go there. And I would just say, if I could just say, our planning commission process we're requiring applicants to come or their representatives. So we can't say you must come and go to run the gauntlet of being made fun of. Right, no, exactly. And I absolutely agree with you. But I just, and I think what you're saying is correct and I just wanted to make sure that we have that distinction for the people who are watching. Well, I wouldn't limit it to personal appearance. I don't, I'm not being, Right, I mean, you can criticize the ideas that are brought forward. Absolutely. And you can be unhappy with them but there's no call for being disrespectful to anybody for any reason. Right, right. Sometimes lively public debate gets disrespectful about people's comments but not personal. Yes. And that's, I think that's the key thing. Can I ask Lori a question? Yes. Did I understand you to be saying that if I'm a private citizen developer and I come before a planning board or the RV or zoning board I've lost my private status in that meeting. So. Well, you're on public record. But I haven't lost my private status. You would not be able to lost your private status. So, if somebody says something to me either from the board or from the audience that was slander or libelous. I mean, I can pursue that. That's an actionable thing. I don't lose that. And my point was Mr. Handy could pursue it if he wanted to. Okay, I just want to be. Absolutely. My thing is perception. We are not protecting Mr. Handy. We are saying the comment that was made will not be tolerated and that we need it from Courtsborne to make sure they understood that. But we as a trustee board I'm not protecting Mr. Handy. Thank you, Mike. And let me add. We are as elected officials they can make phone of us as much as they can. And they do. And they do. And they do. And that's fine. It's just fine. But non people who haven't been elected on for office, they need a certain amount of shielding. Okay, I didn't want to beat this to death. I just wanted to raise that. Anyone else have any? There's no decision here. Any other comments? So we can move on. And we are moving on to an amendment to personnel regulations holiday schedule. Susan McNamara, Hillpat, do you want to speak to this? I think Lauren is volunteer. Lauren is going to speak to this. Yeah. To the recreation department. Is there a little juice? It's very popular. I'll be there. Phone calls. Maybe my roof is gone. I don't know. Is that your stock broker? It's my roof. So the recreation department functions a little differently than the rest of the village. And so we're finding this out as time goes on. And the first time we found out was Bennington Battle Day when they all needed to work and we were going to take it off. So Brad contacted Susan and asked her if she could work on a way around this and he made actually suggestions to the language for the personnel rags that you've got before you. So he would like it changed. I don't know if you want me to read this? Yes, well, yes, please. It is recommended that Section 303 of the personnel regulations be amended to contain the following language. The Essex Junction Recreation and Parks will not close on President's Day, Bennington Battle Day, Columbus Day, and Veterans Day unless these days align with the day that the Essex Westford School District is scheduled to be off. In lieu of these holidays, Essex Junction Recreation and Parks shall close when the school district is closed due to inclement weather. If by May 1, there have not been foreclosed days employees will be given the remaining days as personal holidays. Employees shall work or use paid leave for any additional days beyond four that schools are closed. So we would like to have this language in our personnel rags and it's, you know, we already do the public works in wastewater and have their presence day is different. They take a day in July and the rest of us take a day in February. So it's not unprecedented. Okay, so thank you. Any questions for Laura about this? I have a few questions. So with it being inclement weather, I get the intent of it given the timeframe that takes happening. Is that any different than if the school closes because of safety issues? This past year was happening a few times. I don't think so. So I guess- You want to have that included in the language? My assumption is- I think it would be applied anyway. Yeah, my assumption is that the schools close for any purpose, then the active school program doesn't have work. If they don't have work, they're not showing up. Is it? Well, the only thing I can see is with the inclement weather, the children wouldn't have gotten to school anyways, whereas an incident you're talking about, there could be, if you're talking about, say a bomb scare or such or like type of end, children will have already been at school and then there probably is a need to keep the rec program open so that some of these young kids, especially can maybe go to a program after or wherever they go, they can turn into that as a place to go. Whereas obviously parents are notified when it's schools canceled due to weather. This, the unanticipated events is a different scenario, I think. So this, my understanding, if my memory is correct, which isn't always, this past year when there was, at least the incident that happened to know when Hiawatha closed, they closed early because of the safety incident that happened at the high school, the district closed in the junction. When that happened, the active school program didn't run. The school closed, kids were all sent home. But that wouldn't be a full day off for the staff at PJMP. Right. Yeah, this is for full day off staff. And for hourly staff. Yeah, but they're full-time. Okay. So it's a planned full day off. It will get holidays, you know. The hard times don't get holidays. So it's, it's. Okay. And then, so my other question, this isn't too much of like a logistical nightmare to try to keep in mind, have to vent four days or not, have we? No, our payroll system is pretty easy to use to track this stuff. And perhaps, optimistically speaking, over time, maybe we can come up with something that's a little more even across the board. And that could be accomplished if these employees become part of the association. Then a lot of this could be managed at the collective bargaining table. So, because you could break down the holiday schedule by departments. So we've already gone through three holidays that the rest of the chat off and the recreation department didn't. So, we need to do something about it. I know, I'm sure they are. When they were within the schools, they followed the school schedule. So this wasn't an issue. It was not an issue. All right, I make a motion that the trustees approve the amendment to section 303 of the General Rules and Personnel Regulations as awarded in the Attached Draft Amendment. Wait here a second. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay, unanimous. Thank you, Lord. Thank you. And now we are on to an amendment to the motor vehicle ordinance. Parking, this is a topic we haven't heard much of. No. So the issue this evening is the trustees to approve an amendment to the motor vehicle ordinance to allow for short-term parking in front of the business on Park Street owned by Dennis Brusso, that's East Coast printers. He's requesting limited time parking in front of his business. It's a problem for him because full-time employees elsewhere park and his customers have a tough time parking close enough to his business. And we all know that customers like to be very close to the store in which they're shopping. Yes. So in order to accomplish this, we need to amend the motor vehicle ordinance chapter eight of our municipal code. Thusly, it's recommended that the trustees amend chapter eight, section 803, regulation of motor vehicles of the S extension municipal code by adding the following. Park Street, colon. There shall be a two-hour parking limit on the east to the side for three parking spaces in front of 34 Park Street, sweet 10. Now, in the letter that he, he, Mr. Brusso has sent to us, he has 11 spaces, two of which are handicapped. And so he's asking for two-hour limits in case people who want to park there all day, park there all day, so our police department could be called and some selected enforcement could be accomplished. We also have a letter that was an addendum to the meeting from Alex, the Q-ing also supporting this request. And the Alex will be coming before us in the year or so, but so it comes to you as that recommendation. Okay, that's Dan. I agree with this. I brought this up at prior meetings before the board. I have a big issue with long-term use of parking spaces. It's one over on Railroad Street where a guy parks a van there. I think he's in real estate business and he parks it there day on day for many hours, all day long. Obviously a troubling issue for people in businesses on Railroad Avenue when you have people going for the bus or for a train and parking their car, we don't have meters, so we don't have a way to enforce it in that way, that wrong. But this, if we were to allow for this, we should have language, clear language on spaces in America such, you are subject to being towed, you are subject to paying for the removal of vehicle or getting your vehicle back. And after a couple of people get hooked and out of there and they pay a hefty towing bill, you'll see, you want to talk about how you can change more vehicle stuff. The behavior? When you start hitting you when you move to your vehicle and you're calling for a record, that changes behavior very quickly. What would be, I would be amenable to just changing the recommended motion to just be that what Mr. McEwing is suggesting? For all the spaces. So all the spaces on the side, so just three. I agree. I just want to ask the question, what about enforcement? What about when someone says, well, yeah, I was here and then I left and now I came back again? I mean, how do you know that someone's only been there too? That's my only question. I'm not saying I'm opposed to this, but I, just as a philosophical. Enforcement will be difficult unless you have a walking bead or you have somebody with the little chalk that you can hit the back of the tires with at a certain time. Whose job would that be? And when do we get more patrol officers? I mean, I just, it's just a thing about passing unenforceable. The other thing is enforcing parking doesn't require a certified law enforcement officer. The issue that we're talking about is parking. The meter maids in Burlington, the people that enforce Burlington parking are not law enforcement officers. So you're not paying, you know, for all the benefits and all the training that you get a regular officer. So it would be less expensive. And I think it would have a proactive, you know, result or effect on the community. I think it'd be a positive thing. I would support the village or the town. Maybe we can mention it's like board, see if they would pursue this with the police department to get some parking enforcement or something. Because no matter where, I think it's important to have that. I would be, I'm in favor of this. I'm just concerned about the towing part because unless you, unless, I'd hate the idea of towing someone's car. And you don't actually know that they were. That's what I'm saying. That's why parking happens in Burlington, George. I see it and I've dealt with it myself. And they know it. And just as much as you get a certain number of violations, they can just start with writing tickets. They write it down, you go into the database. Spillman is the system he's talking about. Boom, it pops up. Then you pull up, you know, Vermont tag X, Y, Z. They've got three parking tickets for this step to our violation. Now you're going to be hooked. And after a certain minute, there's language, there's a way to work around it. And I guarantee it'll have a positive effect on this. I'm curious about enforcement. Yeah. I mean, we're putting something in place there. We should have asked Officer Kesson, to come. I would think that the first, I'm sorry. No, go ahead. I would think that the first step would be to put something in place and then we can figure out, when I say we staff people can figure out how best to try to enforce it. The fact that it's there, if we advertise it's there, that may in and of itself cause some behavior. Right. And then, you know, we could put on some of the towing charges, because the police have that because they circulate the business. And they are steep and they are stiff and you don't want to have that happen to you. So, I think this would be a good first step and I think we can work towards enforcement. So, would we be putting a sign in front of each parking spot? We would have to. We would have to come up with something like that. Notice is important. So, now, there was some discussion in here. I think two versus six, what are people thinking here? Do you want to do all of them, or what are you talking about? Well, there's parking on those sides, right? Yeah, so I say the side, they're referencing. We do all of them. East Coast printer side, on the side with the restaurant and... We do all of them. I'd say all non-hidicap. Two-hour parking only. Yeah. And then we talk about enforcement. The hidicap's exempt from the parking, the hidicap, I'm sure it's the hidicap exempt, in my opinion. Okay. Do I hear a motion? We can talk a little bit further about do we have a motion first. How would that sound? Make it up. It would be the recommendation. It's on the recommendation. That's with only the two. We're talking about the three, six, 26. So I recommend the trustees amend chapter eight, section 803, regulation of motor vehicles of the Essex Junction Municipal Code by adding the following. Park Street, there shall be a two-hour parking limit on the easterly side for all parking spaces in front of 34 Park Street. Excluding hidicap. Excluding hidicap spaces. Okay. Second. We've got to second. Lori, Lori, Dan. Okay, Lori got it. Okay, you know what? Here's my prediction. Eventually, we're gonna have meet, they're gonna be a meet or meet. Okay, so I was gonna bring that up. Why don't we? We talk to him, he wants, he's the meet or meet. Why don't we have meet or meet? Lori, I've been saying the same thing. I think it's the aspect of you to have to have meet or meet with somebody, but that's fine. Hopefully we pay for some of it through the meet or meet. We have people that come out and for the school year that stand in intersections and monitor the children. I'm sure there's somebody that's out there maybe that is looking for some part-time work or some work that, you know, it doesn't involve a lot, but just going around monitoring the meters and collecting the currency that's inside. Now, wait a second, wait a second, let me add something here. Maybe there's a metaphysical connection because La Puglia and St. Albans, they have meet or parking. See? That's what I'm saying. Maybe there's somebody who have meet or parking in the first step. Because people are looking for spaces. I don't know. All right, you know what? We're not gonna make this decision tonight, but maybe it's something to look into, okay? That would put a lot of people look more for our public parking lots. Yes. We'll probably also get us booted out of office. Probably. We'll see. Let's have this. I would want to see the inventory of the spaces that would be metered because I'm sure, I don't know that the return on investments. But in certain areas might be a good idea. In some areas. And it would be interesting to see if we would get booted out of office because a lot of people live in the village walk. They want it. So they're not driving in this parking and these parking spaces. Okay. But you are allowing, how can you say? You are allowing a lot of these dwellings to come into the village without having to parking. So you're sending a very big mixed message to people who come here that, come on, there's plenty of on-street parking. That's what we want you to do except now you've got a two hour one. I didn't pay for it. You know, I'm just saying. Yeah, I know you're right. Okay. Well, we have a motion on the table. Any further discussion about the motion that's on the table? Okay. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. unanimous. Thank you guys. And now we are on to FY19 budget request for the Bike Walk Advisory Committee. Mr. Chala. Sure. Hello. So, I'm sure how to begin. We are asking for a modest allocation for next year's budget, $5,000. We've included a brainstorming goal, set of goals that we've come up with. Some of this dates back to was it building healthy communities? The work that was done in 2011 preceded the Bike Walk Committee. Some of this is continuation of work that we've been doing. And so we've broken it down by, and a lot of it's very helpful. This is a very optimistic list. It's kind of a wish list as opposed to a realistic goal list. The, we've had, as a group, we've had some trouble coming up with exactly what dollar amount would go with every goal we have on here. But, you know, we talked earlier about Maple Street. We've talked a lot about kids getting to and from school and what we've noticed, what the police have noticed. Everybody's seen the issues we have. So some of the money we envision going to signs in the bike lanes, striping in the bike lanes. Of course we'd have to talk to Rick about what's legitimate and what's not. Yeah. Rick Hamlin. But, you know, you're going the wrong way. It would involve having either curriculum developed, found, or taught maybe by district phys ed teachers. Maybe getting locomotion or other agencies to come in and do a two day segment in each of the schools. Just to kind of, it may involve paying someone on a rotating basis once a week to go to different places during school times and coach kids into doing the right thing. So that's one aspect of what we see the budget going. In terms of what we were talking about earlier, slowing people down. You know, we thought, we're looking at what, oh, I forgot the name of the, developing a six junction does a lot of, what's that group? Everybody. We've talked about having a speaker come in and talk to our planning commission and our select board and trustees. Someone from another like sized community that has been successful with alternative ways of impacting traffic and increasing pedestrian like usage. To talk to the planning commission, to talk to the boards, to maybe do some training with the police department. This is what's worked. Maybe it's a law enforcement agency. You bring them in, you get them rid of the different agencies in one or two days and invite the public in to do what they have to say as well. You know, and that's more of a long term effort to start thinking about how to implement structural changes that, you know, we've always, in these meetings, we've always come up with ideas and we're kind of like, it's great. No, I can't do that. Well, we can do that, but. So there's a dizzying amount of regulation out there, but other communities are having success with this. So that's where some of the funds would go. Trying to look to other communities and bring experts in for grant-serving sessions. Basically, it's education and some materials. We'd also like to work with the town, EGRP, EPR, the town, Trails Committee, to kind of get a comprehensive walking and biking map, resource map, in digital form and grid form. That's a great idea. Connecting all of the parks to all of the neighborhoods. Connecting out to Colchester, maybe out to Wallaston, just really, and Jericho is really ramping up their efforts with recreation and the recreation department as well. I know that the town of Essex had some mapping done. That was an email I went back and forth a little bit. So building on that and getting that work. And that'll take some effort and some resources. Very good. Thank you. Questions for Raj? This is just a mindy, ignorant question. I don't recall if there was a line item for the committee last year. So this is the first budget request that we've gotten from guys. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's only been the tree committee. The tree committee, right. Speaking of, in terms of equity, they're at 10,000. They don't want to fund trees and like walking at the same level. Fair is not the same. I wouldn't want to have that conversation today, but I'd like to see, have they spent their entire budget in one year? You know, they would have to be worth asking. Yeah, I think, if I could be wrong, or maybe I'm just imagining this, but I think the first year we did it, there was some specific project that they were gonna take on about planting that. They needed, do you recall that? Yeah, there was something to do with the cost of trees and that. We just continued it. Yeah. But I think it's a good question to have during budget day. Yeah, okay. So I would say, I honestly couldn't tell you how the committee would spend $10,000. Yeah, as I said, we had our time putting dollar amounts to these things. So we talked about 10, because the tree committee has 10. I feel like it's always good. Okay! The tree committee is on the same. Is this much trees this much? Yeah, but I don't think that we need to start there. Oh, okay. I'd rather see us spend money on those wrap and reflecting beacons that you see at a couple of our crosswalks that have really been effective. And those are pricey. Yeah. And in this list I provided, we have an ambitious goal of two pair per year on the village, that's pricey. So I think we can take that. Plus we're pretty good at finding grants. Okay, good. With bike safety and crossing intersections, I know over at West Street extension, there was something put into the pavement there, the sensors for bikes as well as marking on the roadway. I'm just curious, I mentioned it to Rick a long time ago or right after at least that sensor was put in, possibly doing it down here on South Street intersection Park Street, where there's a tremendous amount of traffic through there and not only just bicycles, but even motorcycles can't trip, the sensor for the vehicle, the vehicle's trip is not triggered by a motorcycle or a bicycle, I've done it or something there. So just something to think about. Yeah, so I thought they were universal, I didn't realize that they had put, because I came out of the community right after they had done that. They have not. I think there's one at the interesting, the one at Rockies, that's what I remember the story. Oh, there's one there at Uruguay? Because we did like a bike, a community bike, and it was a big deal to go. If that was psych over it, then it'll go. Just something like. Yeah. And that's the kind of thing, right? But yeah, so that's something we've, but I was, my understanding was that all those sensors were universal, I didn't realize that all motorcycles wouldn't do that. One question, I think I'm curious on, I don't know if you know the answer, going through Wooliston from time to time, and you see with their nice new favoring how they have the bright green, and how it works. Yeah, so actually, I actually sent Rick and Rick an email asking about that, and they, they are expensive to maintain and keep painted. Yeah. They use a different paint apparently, then the village has its own way of doing things. Which used to be a theme to it. The village way. So there were a couple reasons like that. And they discussed it and decided not to do it. I was a little disappointed. I thought, especially on Pearl and some other areas, that it would have been helpful. I think it's frustrating that we go from half a bike lane to none. Yeah. To some to none. And all of that has been redone. Right. Federal money, state money, village taxpayer money went to the part in front of the fairgrounds where there are no bike lanes in front of that mall. And that is just a congestion point again. And then it opens up and then it's only down here. If it's building in with the big, giant sidewalk with no bike lane on that side. So yeah, there's a lot of, which is that we could, we might try to push the village to do some suggested pathway marking in five corners. You know, if people like Brownington does the, the baked in cobblestone, you know, if the sidewalks were more in the pathways of three, five corners were more substantial, at least looking. Yeah. People might take them and look at them a little more. I like those. I like that idea. You should, I would be, I think we'd all be interested in hearing more about that. But yeah, I think, I think there's a lot of interesting stuff. Brownington's really pushing a lot of, pushing the envelope on some, some of the stuff works, some of it doesn't. Yeah. An interesting example is I can send you guys the videos in the St. Paul Howard Street area that weird five, it's another five corner. They did an experiment for a while where they, they pushed out with cones and striping and planters the curves and they really narrowed all that down and it slowed people way down. And it made the crossings narrow or something but actually crossed the street. And they did that for six weeks and it was really, really effective. They've done it a couple other spots I believe in the city there. I think it's very effective, I agree with you. And that's the kind of thing I was talking about before, you know, like really experimenting with not narrowing it so they're dangerous narrowing so people have to go 15 miles an hour really making it so you have to pay attention when you're going. Other questions, comments? Okay, do I hear a motion? You make a motion if the village trustees approve a $5,000 fiscal year 2018 budget allocation for the bike walk advisory committee. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Unanimous. Thank you very much. Thank you, thank you. Thank you very much for everything that you have to. Yep. I believe that wraps up the agenda path in life unless I'm leaving something out. For a new business it does. For a new business and so we're onto the manager's report. Well you have your trustee meeting schedule. Yep. And I'll call your attention to one of the dates is December 26th. That turns out to be a holiday for the employees in both the town and the village. It's the day after Christmas so I think your options would be to reschedule that or cancel it or don't make a decision now and wait and see what life looks like for that last week in December. Which is a very quiet week. So. I don't know what to predict. We have a lot of new people and a lot of new places during the budget time so I can tell you right now we're behind our last year's schedule a little bit. Learning curve year so. And. Lauren we'll try to make up the difference and I'll try to make up the difference. But. Good night. Yeah. You know the only thing I'm gonna mention is that we're gonna be meeting with the select board all day December 2nd and that depending on the outcome of that meeting you know so. Also the 12th. Oh. Is that your second? The second and the 12th. Oh sorry Lauren. Yes. Sorry and that's my fault. That was Anthony's fault. No I'm sorry about that. Yeah I forgot about that. It's December 21st. And so we may want to I'm just all I'm saying is we may want to be flexible about that other joint meeting because we may need something to happen before then depending on the outcome of what happens on December 2nd. That's like I'm not trying to change it if I'm just saying. Oh no no. It might get changed because of circumstances. This is not etched in stone it's just a snapshot. I have a family trip. I just booked flights out of town that weekend. Oh well sorry. What weekend is that? The day of the interviews. I mean I just booked them today because I have no idea where we were scheduled anything. When are you leaving town? Friday. The first? The first I think about Sunday. Well we had it was in the original schedule that we were gonna be Thursday or Friday and we were supposed to be Friday, that Friday. So we didn't leave. Well I'm not leaving until 4.30. I can't change it. Yeah well we went through what we went through at our last meeting was Max and I had talked to Don Juffin about having us just sort of observe the professional panel day when they were interviewing the six candidates. And it was unanimously agreed upon by both boards that they didn't want to do that. So we then told Don we're not gonna do that. And so but since Don was amenable to it if you're gonna be there maybe he could make an exception and you alone could observe it. And I don't know. I have a problem with not being at the interview. Well I don't know what we can do. We scheduled this for. I don't think you should have been helpful. Have the. Yeah give me for blurting. I know that 15 people have received the questionnaire to fill out. Have UMX talked to Don? Has he whittled it down? Has he whittled that number down from 15 to an interviewable number yet? I haven't. I don't know. I haven't talked to him about that. Well in the absence of that is. I'm just picking up the ball from Laurie. Yeah I don't know. We've scheduled the rooms. We scheduled everything for those two days. As I said when we initially got the time frame from him. So one I never saw the time frame. Oh okay. And two if this was decided last Wednesday I'm wondering why I'm just hearing about it. I don't know. I just I am I one of the reasons I ran again was to help select the manager and I feel all 10 members should be at that meeting. Yeah. So the candidates we don't have a list of six yet so the date. Is that what you're trying to say? None of the candidates know when they're supposed to come. That's exactly what I'm saying in the event of that it might not be too late to reschedule. And I'm sorry to do this to everyone I know of this but. Well what's the date you're available? They would have to be after that. So I'm back on you know Sunday evening and I'm here the whole rest of December. What's everyone else's thought? Could we try Monday the fourth? Well we could. I'm not a work day is not gonna work for me but I mean that's why it's Saturday. I think Saturday is good for everybody. That's why I think we were seeing that. Is this a ninth? So help me understand there's something happening on Friday and something happening on Saturday? Friday is the all day panel session. That's when the professional panels and the citizen panels and that's again that's that might be tricky because he, I'm guessing he may have already reserved, you know told, a lot of those are working people. They're town managers and they may have already scheduled that time off. Plus to change that date we also would have to meet the select board I'd have to have, you know would have to get the five of them in the room to all agree. They all agreed to that Saturday was okay for them. Well what can we do another doodle? We could. To see if the next weekend is available? We could. And then we can make a decision from there. I'm one person on the board of trustees. You can ask the other three if you want. Well that was it, I mean that was to everyone. We don't seem to have much choice no matter we should just try to reschedule. So I don't mean strong looking, whatever it is. Let me just offer a potential silver lining. There was a big hope that there was going to be a large citizen participation. A lot of the people may be private sector individuals who can't afford to miss a day's work. And that would be a Friday when that panel is going to be convened with the professional panel and the employees panel. And can I be a little selfish? You just heard me say we're a little bit behind. I don't know which employees will be chosen but this is budget time and I would like to make sure I get to keep the key people working on the budgets to get them ready for the meetings. That's just ignore me on that one. I can make do for sure but I'm just saying that if you're looking for more than just one person who can't make it there's some silver linings that could be expressed to your colleagues in the town and to Don. And if it can happen it can happen but I mean it's... Well what I'll do is I'll get in touch with Max tomorrow and he'll have to work the town side and see and get in touch with the select board and I'll work this side but the most important thing is first thing we'll have to do is talk to Don and talk to him about it and see whether that can be changed. I don't know that it can't. I'm not... Okay, no that's all I'm asking. Let's just ask the other trustees right now so just clear up a little bit of it. Anyone have it? If we met the following Saturday would that be okay for the four of you? One, three of you. Thanks, sir. Okay, okay. Good evening. Aren't you faster? Yep. That's good for you? Yep. Okay, so let me talk to Max. He'll have to get in touch with the select board and then I'll be back in touch with you. Okay, thank you. I appreciate it. No problem, no problem. Okay, so, and then the other thing I was gonna just call everyone's attention to is the all day budget session which was another reason we wanted to do it on a Saturday so that we, for those of us who have day jobs, they have to be somewhere it means taking one less day off, I'll say, all day in December. From what we just heard about possible delays is that still gonna work for staff? I'll make it work. I'll make it work. Well, yeah, we'll make it work. We have to hand deliver budgets over the weekend or something, you think we're doing anything? But we promised paper for the select board this year is the farewell swan song to the electronic media. So we have to still put together those three reminders, fill the paper. And I got new people doing it, but it'll be okay, it'll be okay. Don't listen, I should just shut up. Okay. Okay, anything else about the schedule? Everyone good? Should we move on to the reading file? Trust your comments, reading file? Everyone good? And we've got the, we note the, with appreciation, the positive letter regarding the Perl Street construction from Brenda Bennett, we appreciate that. And also Susan McNamara Hill's resignation from the Essex Rescue Committee, Community Advisory Board. Pat, please thank Susan for us. I will do that. Our appreciation and our regrets that she can't continue, but she does so much already. Anything else, reading file? Everyone good? So we're on to the consent agenda. George, there's a question from the audience. Yes, Irene, yes. I'm sorry to interrupt. But a village resident interviewed over the town position on this Community Advisory Board for Essex Rescue a few weeks ago, and we ended up pointing someone from outside the village. So I would just offer that up if you wanted to contact someone from the village who had an interest in doing that exact volunteer position. We have a name. So someone from the village. Applied for that position. And they didn't get it? Right. But now there's another position open, is what you're saying. And now the village seat is open. We've sent to her what she came to us. You know there's a village seat. Okay, sorry, thank you, Irene. That's worth it. Thank you. All right, and does the 20th work for you? The ninth. The ninth, I'm sorry. I don't have a calendar here. I don't put my calendar. It's a Saturday. Oh, you don't have your year. Okay. All right. Thanks. Thank you, Irene. So, okay, so we are on to the consent agenda. And we approve the consent agenda. And I will second it. Okay. Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Aye. So we are on to, I am going to make a motion that we enter executive session at this time. And that, to discuss the personnel matter in accordance with one VSA section 313A3 and invite the village attorney to attend. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? So no staff need to be there? No, just the village attorney. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay, sorry, I didn't mean to say no. So we are on to let's take a 10 little recess. I will read the room. Thank you. So thank you. If you could not decide on that, please.