 Welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today I am joined by a special guest I like to call him the godfather of vintage drum interviews a Huge inspiration to me mr. Jim Messina Jim. How are you? That would be me? Hello Bart. I want to thank you For inviting me that you know, hey, did you know this is the first time I've ever been interviewed myself This is very unusual for me to be on the receive again. I'm used to being where you're at exactly I did not know that and I'll tell people that Jim is just an absolute icon in the vintage drum community he has and runs vintage drums talk comm and is just kind of a legend on YouTube and Full disclosure he is absolutely one of the main reasons why I'm doing what I'm doing today because I Sat there on my couch and watched all of his videos and said to myself. Wow. I absolutely love this How can I get involved? I want to learn and I want to kind of do what Jim does and Look at us today. I'm talking to you and interviewing the man himself. I'm turning red here Bart I'm very flattered, but you know what? you are an example of The the type of person I was trying to Communicate with all these years because I understand you're still in your 20s. Aren't you I am 29 exactly and that's the you know when I would be doing these These videos I'd be talking to you Someone just like you out there Your age group because somebody's got to take over and put some value on these drums and I I'm so glad that you've created this podcast and That you exist because really the community has to live on somebody's gotta Educate themselves though from the younger Aspect and I'm so glad you're doing that and thanks for the compliments. Oh my pleasure and I think it's um It's amazing how many topics come up that you I had no idea they existed that I've learned in the process of making this show and today's topic of Painted bass drum heads from the 20s and 30s Which we're going to talk about and the reason I'm talking to you is because you have a great video on youtube Which I will link to in the show notes where people can find it, but um jumping into today's topic now Go ahead and treat this like like I think a lot of people don't know anything about this Subject, maybe they've seen them Maybe like honestly like we were talking about before we hopped into the interview here People think of like a printed logo on a bass drum head All that stuff so take us to the very beginning of painted drum heads. Why are they painted? What's the point? Here's how it actually goes. Here's how it goes. You have to start off with calfskin heads in general at first because You know back in the 20s the teens 30s and into the 40s you know Remo Belly had not Come along yet with mylar heads Plastic mylar heads that we know of today and all the variations that exist And you see, you know a lot of graphics and really well done Graphics for everybody now everybody on stage has you know a cool looking You know some kind of logo bass drum head But back in those days It's all because of the need to maintain calfskin heads calfskin heads They're animal skin. All right. Yeah, and they react to humidity All right, so you could tune up your first of all you had to stretch your own heads You had to tuck them. That's what they called it tucking a calfskin head. You would you know the the aluminum rings you see around conventional Contemporary drum heads That the mylar is wrapped up. Okay. Well, that was called a flesh hoop Back in the day 20s, you know the calfskin head era They were usually made of wood Maybe a maple ring. They had it had a scarf joint in it And they were sometimes they were rounded Sometimes they were had a flat side to them but drummers were very familiar With tucking their own calfskin heads with a tucking tool You can use They suggest if you don't have an actual tucking tool you can use a wide Spoon the handle of a spoon or something like that to do the actual tucking what you would do is you would buy a round Of calfskin. That's what they used to sell. You could get them pre-tucked if you wanted to of course If you had to pay a little more for that But they came pre-tucked and some guys would carry around maybe four or five six pre-tucked heads The batter head and they had The snare head what we call the snare head now for the bottom side But then in calfskin terms it was called a slunk head to use on the bottom for The snare side and they were usually a thinner shaved type of head okay, where's the top thicker white they usually irish calfskin was considered the best but my whole point for mentioning calfskin getting into it at all is that calfskin once again reacts to humidity And what happens is you'll tune up the guys would tuck their heads put them on their drums tune them up Get them where they want them And then it would be raining out Or foggy out or just they are just a hot sticky humid day What happens to the head it starts to loosen it starts to sag Because it reacts to the moisture in the air And your drums would just literally sound just they just go splat So the so these drummers would quickly take their drum key and they're you know constantly throughout the whole set Turning this one turning that log turning this log We too it was just a big big pain I don't know how they got through that era to tell you the truth, and I'm glad That I was born at a time where You know remote belly came along and here we've got mylar heads, but yeah So you had these sagging heads they couldn't take it they had to fix this somehow So what they did was they started installing heaters inside of bass drums and snare drums I've never actually seen them inside a tom But I imagine they could have done that also But you mostly see them bass drums snare drums and it was just a heated element that would warm up And you had to kind of be careful because you know You know what your drums they catch on fire But they would plug it in the thing would heat up and it would help their sagging calfskin head It would keep the heads keep the tensions where they want them So that was one way to do it Then the other way to do it Was by using simply a light bulb Or two light bulbs two and three okay And the heat generated by the light bulb was just enough to take out the humidity in from the air within the bass drum and Keep these heads You know intact where you tuned them At least for the gig, you know, then you turn off then you turn off the lights or the heater Take the trolley home pack up your stuff. You don't take the trolley and they'd go flat again So They noticed that hey wait a minute That really looks elegant and cool when when I turn that light on like that inside the bass drum Then they started putting in a red red one and a blue one You know colored ones Then they started putting in they started they figured a way To make them blink Oh, wow So you'd have you know, I have some of the some of these bass drums that I've taken apart You know when cleaning them and restoring them. There's this, you know Pretty dangerous looking Frayed wiring and all this stuff and ceramics, you know ceramic stuff to screw the bulbs in But there would be a red bulb and a blue bulb And they would literally be painted because the paint would be cracked all, you know Checked from the heat of the light bulb. The bulb would be painted on there. You're saying Literally hand painted. Oh geez lead paint on a bulb. Yeah Exactly. So that's what I would find But then they started adding You know something to make them blink in sequence back and forth back and forth and then They said that really looks elegant and classy and the orchestra leaders, you know, the band leaders loved them And uh, you know, they'd be playing a huge supper club and There the drummer has with this this moody looking bass drum That, you know, it was lit up and little did the people know that The lid the lid up bass drum was Serving a purpose other than aesthetic, you know So they thought wait a minute What if we did like a Silhouette type painting on the bass drum and that's the birth of Painted drum hats they started, you know when well, maybe Just Their initials, maybe I don't know which came first initials or these really cool paintings, but I believe that, you know The drummers started doing it themselves before the companies the actual American companies started actually Putting these out themselves, you know offering them in catalogs drummers would, you know Make some pretty crude renditions Of painted drum heads, you know, they're initials the band leader the name of the band whatever all kinds of things and I'm gonna come across many drums From pre and most of them are pre 20s That will have these crude attempts At making the drums look good or painting them And they eventually figured that using a certain blend Of oil paints worked Whether they were thinned out or whatever, but The drum companies then Realized hey There's a need for these and they They started putting them out they hired artists and If you search on the internet, there's only one that I know of Is a picture of a guy actually an artist in the factory surrounded by paintings and Drum heads waiting to be painted and to me it looks like the lady factory because one of the drums And these that they and he would mount these The drum heads on The same type of apparatus that they used You know to tuck the heads and store them Remember, I told you the drummers would buy pre-tucked heads Well, there was a rack system that was used just wooden slats and long screws and wing nuts to Keep these drum heads In shape and it would just it looked like a stack of pancakes to tell you the truth Yeah, and I'll I'll share that That photo is unbelievable of the guys sitting there painting it. Um, you've seen it. Yeah, it's yeah And it's funny because I always remember it because he has such an odd haircut where he has no sideburns and his hair Is shaved up you guys listening will look it up and and see that it's funny See now back when I was doing this No internet really to speak of that had a lot of images But now if you google, you know with the help of google And you go google images painted, you know 1920s painted drum heads You'll see just a billion and they're great. Uh rob cook also includes them in some of his books, but This these are great because they're you know, these are people that own these Uh, you know, Dave brown has some of his up there Mark cooper, but if you go way back to the rob cook days and his Publications which to me are like the bible. Yeah, you have some renditions in there and you actually have You know the names of the head they gave names to these heads these paintings whatever scene it was And I've got some right here The ones that I had in the video If you haven't seen that video yet It's an old one. One of my older ones, but There's a there's a silhouette That uh is very early. Yeah now that's funny because some of the ones you see Nobody knows how many Really came out of the factories all we can go by are what we see in the catalogs and you know rob has published many of them in his books I showed what I had There were even some more that I have that are some of those early early ones that Came out of nowhere, you know no catalog no company just some guy did it himself but in the in the catalogs there are some Just like drums that are more sought after than others because of their rarity And it's usually usually the theme is like the uglier they are The more rare and valuable they are now Yeah, but back in those days back in those days just like the vintage drums themselves They weren't made to be collectible we 70 years later 80 years We are the ones that are valuing them But they weren't produced to be you know nowadays, you know, they make the social such anniversary Uh version of this and that you know and the lar's all rich model. I just The way That's a vintage but I but I've got to be level-headed about it and say even someone your age Might say, yeah, you got a lar's all rich damn That's great. Yeah, you know that vintage vintage drum. Okay I'll allow you that but to me Mark Cooper and I have laughed about that a lot in fact I think that's where I even got that from him the lar's All rich model as though that's some super collectible drum Yeah, but it could be just to someone who's younger all the guys you've been talking to are You know the diehard They're the old regime, you know, they're into Like I am 1920s 30s 40s And I've said that before in my videos, you know, and then I'll say Why do I own this? Why do I have this if you saw that little video? What am I doing with a set of north drums and and these mardi gras rogers? Collectible just because they're collectible. That's why I would snatch them up. But anyways back to the the paintings Some of them like I said are more valuable more rare more desirable than others and I have my version of a holy grail Okay, and that particular one is called the balloon dancer Okay Ludwig or Ludwig and Ludwig and it was basically made from 1935 to 1940 I've never seen one And the only one I've seen is in black and white in a picture. I don't know what the color configuration is but I don't know there but the most common ones you see Every company put out, you know a mountain lake scene Yes And they're slightly different Some of the companies would even have two different versions. I'm looking at it right now the Ludwig Mountain Lake version they had in 1927 and in 1930 slightly different but You know experts could point that out and I've seen many more of the 1930s than the 1927 version But if you're a collector, I mean it's cool to have both of them Then there's a Niagara Falls 1924 to 34 I've seen that but they're they're they're kind of rare the clipper ship is simply a silhouette of a You know like a Christopher Columbus type sailing ship But it's it's done all in a in a silhouette That one I have seen at the Chicago show and I just You know next time you see me. I'll allow you to kick me. I should have got I should have gotten that one Should have bought it Well, it's neat to see because obviously if we if we kind of back up and we remember that this is a backlit there's Uh, there's heating element and or there's light bulbs inside of the drum and it's being lit So that's why there are these silhouettes and the one that I see a lot online Or on pictures of people's collections is the spider web girl that you'll see absolutely that to me Is another one of my you know, you'll see you'll see that at the show Yeah, I think Dave has one Dave Brown But I have seen him at the show and it's just so cool to see him in person because Everyone is different Yeah, um, yeah, even with these mountain lake paintings I look at them and I'll look at you know the leady version Even even I'll look at two or three of the 1930 version Ludwig Version and I'll see hey wait a minute a little different because you've got the human element involved they were literally Hand painted and you know, we all use that term painted but There was little brushwork involved because the problem was Just as you say being backlit and I found this out the hardware because I tried to do it myself I tried to make my own Cool painting using oil paints regular grumbacher oil paints Did it was just horrible you could see every brush stroke And the oil in the paint starts being absorbed Into the head so you have this big Outline around what you're painting of Oil that is now being backlit backlit by the light bulbs. It shows up So what they had to do was they had to cut the paint A certain way thin it out and make it work so that you didn't get that oil spreading Just like I did and They had to really watch it with the brush strokes So instead they utilized a different method called the stipple Method you've heard of a stipple gold snare drum, right? Yep. I don't know if you have okay I have yeah the finish is basically, you know a plaster looking finish But when you take a sponge And if you look at the trees And all that you can see and you've and this method is used a lot by Some of those quick artists that you see like at a fair or street fair or In a mall they'll they'll have a way of making You know either an Elvis picture or a waterfall picture or a galaxy picture. They're doing a show Themselves working real fast and they you know make one and then make another one and they make another one exact same method exact same Waterfall, you know, so they've got it down somebody showed them how to do it And they use sponges And they use a cloth wad it up Dabbing it that's called the stipple method and they'll take their brushes and instead of you know Drawing the brush downward or sideways or whatever they would dab the brush Just point, you know punch into the yeah, sure dab, dab, dab And if you go and look closely at the bushes the trees You can see yeah I can see how that was done by them stabbing at at the drum head And making you know, they were really they really had skills to be able to do that and then When they would make like the calm looking water They would dab at first and then smear it somehow with the cloth Just so you didn't they they mastered the way to not get those brush strokes. It's it's amazing When you when you consider the content As they went along remember they started out with these crude initials Joe blows orchestra Maybe the name of the the nick the nickname of the drummer It could even be like a aotsy-totsy, you know nude woman It was just really amateurish kind of looking but The companies hired artists that mastered this technique And if you ever get to see them, you know real not pictures You can you can you can really look at if in your and if you're allowed to hold them and hold them up to the light It's it's cool Now there are guys out there that are that are really really experts Really experts at the history of this They even know some of the names of the artists You know like that maybe resided it Leedy they may say uh, there were five or six known Employees that that's all they did they worked in the art department and they did the paintings And these guys are so good that they could say oh, that's so and so did that one And this looks like so and so's work Yet it's the mountain lake scene. They both did this same painting that you know Ludwig and Ludwig wanted them to do You know the Ludwig and Ludwig or Leedy or whoever Would choose certain ones Certain paintings and they would that they would include in their catalogs And I don't know if they really did custom work. They probably did But you just probably had to pay more for it. They didn't you know nothing catalog That's why I have one here and if you go watch the video of mine And I think it's right behind me in the video, but it's a ship on the ocean sailing Never I've never seen it in any catalog But the painting has done so well That I believe it to be You know a factory painting There are other ones that you can tell not fact Even though it's done. Well You can just tell And if you study these long enough They become burned into your brain And you'll start to know which ones Are popular just like a set of blue vista lights They're everywhere Yeah, there's certain ones that you you always see and like like You're absolutely right where you you're saying that these guys are like master painters and I'm sure Again, everyone should google it and you can see it almost reminds me In a great way like bob ross, you know the famous like pbs painter Absolutely These beautiful like the reflection on the water But to be able to convey that to someone else like bob ross did He would say you know whisper in that whispery voice just Just grab your number two brush. Yeah, and uh, just dab it like this You know Basically, that's the same thing the guy at the mall in the street fair is doing Only he's doing it lightning fast to make a show out of it And then he'd spin it, you know and rely on the the paint, you know running off this centrifugal force and It's a show in itself But you can tell these guys have painted these These same paintings a million times, sir You know, it's cool. I really I really wonder how many were put on I don't know if there's a record of it somewhere But that would be cool to know or if just the mountain lake scene was the one everybody liked. Yeah Again, my favorite just because i'm from a collector standpoint is the balloon dancer Um, and there's there's another one. I don't know if you have access to this by run out The lug-weed ones are easier to find But then when you look at the slayerland ones They they're a little more rare and I'm looking, you know Rob's book And they are just a horse of a different color. You can tell a slingerland painting I wonder just have a different look It's the difference between using chalks to make your artwork and oil painting with a brush Yeah, they're they're coloring is more vivid Yes, uh The lines are not sharp They're soft lines and But the colors are more vivid They have a clipper ship, but they call it a night at sea You know, imagine how hard it would be To make a night scene In those days. Yeah, and it does, you know, it looks like you know a ship on water And then of course they've got their version of the mountain lake. They call it scotland And it's number 822 they give it a catalog $12. Yeah. Yeah, and there's a lot of these are Winter scenes, you know, there's the cabin in the wood woods the log cabin. That's number 823 Uh, I think I think Ludwig did one too. Yeah, Ludwig did one too Uh in 1930 they call it the winter scene some of them So we're talking about the winter scene and it's kind of funny to me some of them are a little bit Um, I don't want to say depressing, but some of them are like like I'm looking at uh in a catalog Which you guys can find online summit castle scene number 824 It's just kind of um, like the trees are barren and it reminds me of I talked to mark kuper about it about the one that was like I'm not sure which company, but it was the forest fire, which is a super rare one Where um, it's even hard to google and find an image of it, but where there is literally a Fire like the forest is on fire I'm trying to think Who made that but it's it's a pretty grim scene obviously I know I know it's it's unusual because even uh Lily lake number 825 of the slingolin catalog they show It's supposed to be it's really supposed to be a sunset Or you know dusk But it looks it has that it has that fiery sky look to it It just what what is that? You know why it's so ominous looking? Yes, exactly yet A lot of pirate stuff There's tons of women being depicted here in the era of kind of the jazz the um, almost that great gatsby-ish Absolutely the roaring 20s Exactly, yes What kind of the balloon dancer Comes under that category but I see I've got I'm looking at slingolin and Ludwig and Ludwig next to each other here and They again it seems like every company figured wow, we got to do a mountain lake scene Okay, we got to do a cabin a winter scene with the cabin. Ludwig's got two of them Uh I don't know why they do that why they have two of them, but one is 1927 and then again they change it like up again in 1930 Don't know why they unless that's when the catalogs were put on but they chose then To change the look of the same subject matter Yeah, but then you'll see pirates again in both slingolin and Ludwig and Ludwig And it's like they I don't know if they were dueling it out. Well, of course, there's the infamous windmill scene That they all had leading. I've got two ladies now off One is mounted on a 28 inch base drum And this one blows me away now. I have another one that is in Mint condition now a lot of times when people say mint They don't know what they're talking about but when collectors or any high-profile collector Or person in the drum community vintage drum community says mint they mean mint This came from Dave Brown over in England and I traded the low-boy pedal for it. Yeah, uh, he wanted it that year He was just on jim. Of course have that What do you want for it? I said, gee steve and I you know, I kind of regret that because you know I wish I had that back. But hey, Dave's got it. It's in a great place. But at the time I kind of told him I don't know. I I need a 25 and a half inch painted base drum head of You know the windmill scene and I can't believe it. He's just a ball on a ball on. Yeah, do you want to? What are you doing with first of all? To have a you know a 25 and a half inch Was is is hard to find sure 28th third. That's this This era is you know, everything was 28 inches mostly and then we go down to 26 But to have a 25 and a half You could mess with the 26, but They really did make 25 and a half exactly to fit a 25 and a half inch Shell he had one in mint condition and when Dave says mint I mean, I was shocked when I received it. It was beautiful and You know, it's a it's I think it's the leady version of the windmill scene That's unbelievable. It's just beautiful. I I I gotta send that to you. You're gonna you're gonna be knocked out But because I also have another lady windmill scene, which has a rip at it and there's you know, some other problems with it, but I'm just fascinated with them to tell you the truth and It's funny that the way they came about It was all it was it was a necessity because of the humidity with cap skin heads and the evolution It went through the teens and by about a time the 20s get rolled around the drum companies figured We got to start making these and we're going to catalog them and I'm not sure When the actual first Catalog, you know had painted drum heads and If it was if it was leady if it was Ludwig I mean Ludwig is showing 1927 Even 1924 But I've even seen like 1923 and so I'm not sure when they started. I don't know. Did Mark Cooper ever mention? No, he didn't but I'd also be curious about when did they end So, do you know when they they ran their course and kind of went out of style? Would that be Let's put it this way The balloon dancer Went to 1940 Okay, as late as 1940 That's the latest I've got But again some by that time some people were getting it down with the the painting, you know doing it themselves, especially Band leaders that you know wanted their name Or their initials on the bass drum benny goodman. Yeah, you know, that's a famous head Bg, you know with the with the lines and the shield and all that but by The fifties in the middle of the fifties. They were still doing calfskin because WFL I got a whole set of wfl's with calfskins and by the mid sixties in uh in the late fifties, I think remote belly Really started, you know promoting them. So the way of the painted head Was over with yeah probably In into the early fifties. Okay. That's what I'm gonna say, but Yeah catalog wise I can't I can't pin it down. Yeah, gotcha Well, it's it's such an interesting and unique and really beautiful piece of history where their works of Art and like you said, it's that unique unique kind of style and Yeah, and there's actually something cool. There's you can look on facebook and instagram and all these places There are people who are doing great jobs of reproducing these heads on 28 inch bass drum heads It's it's obviously different than the original, but but if you can't find the original why not have Someone I don't know if there's you know a copyright on them. I really don't know but All I can say is I've seen you know the ones that matt alling Was putting out of ct pro percussion. Believe it or not his mother We're stewing these paintings. Oh, wow adam at the show two or three years ago When he was promote when he when he brought the uh, we call it the cigar band set drum set awesome set if you look up ct pro percussion matt alling or You can probably even put in cigar band drum set, you know google that he Was I can't believe because it's painstaking. He used real cigar bands and Made a wrap Unbelievable isn't that something he wrapped a whole kit So anyways, I guess, you know, they're all artistically talented his mother then was making The drum heads and I think one of my videos where I Did a segment on matt In the background and we talked about there were these he was offering capskin heads because he's He's very big on you know fresh new capskin heads um, he recognizes, you know The older, you know their originals As being collectible But not playable sure big no no. Yeah, I mean he'll say they're like cardboard He'll he'll say they're all drying out. Yeah, I think I even sat down At a set that year and just did a little ditty little demo and the feel of him was pretty cool uh Speaking of you know contemporary painted heads. I think you're going to start seeing more of them Just for the heck of it. I think you're right because Collector and I think it'll be by somebody like Frankie Benale or somebody like that Collectors, I think would would value something like that because anybody else is going to you know go to a computer guy And have them, you know really made up all these satanic figures and all that kind of stuff that they do now Oh, yeah, it's incredible. But as far as real painted heads I think it's going to be collectors that are going to would be interested in something like that and if they ever do uh If they ever are allowed to Reproduce those exact heads because why haven't they done it already? Yeah, they would have they would have already done it. Yeah, and I've seen a few online where I think people just look at it and kind of You're right. It's an interesting thing with copywriting and can you copyright the image of uh, you know The spider lady, I believe has been done because once again You can tell you know how I told you that You know you because like as collectors We may as well be like being kids looking at comic books. You memorize everything on the page So you stare at these examples Forever and ever and your mom comes in and goes what? What do you put that book down? You know, but wait, it's a lady something, you know And I'd just be staring at it. He literally do almost memorize every stroke of that's on there and I've seen the spider lady Or an attempt at the spider lady that just kind of block it blockish crude Uh nice nice try, but you know and I'm glad, you know that you revere this not you but the person That you revere this this painting and recognize it as one of the coolest ones that were made but You know Nothing like the real thing baby as they say but um I do think somebody's going to do that but It's got to be slingling. It's got to be lard wig You know, you got bill lard wig out there with with wfl three I don't know if he would ever put any stock in doing some kind of Painted head actually like they did in the old days or I could see uh one of the newer Companies who's doing the rusted stuff Oh a and f a and f. Yeah, actually That's a great idea because they're they're they're their look Is so vintage even down to the strainer that they chose to use Just because of its vintage look Yeah, the george wade one And and their look is just you know each what he said is different because of what they're doing with the rusted look and I could see them somehow either either commissioning someone that does have the copyright to make to have those made Or get permission somehow, but that's that's a company. I could see doing it There are some other boutique companies that I could see that could use that But i'm telling you there works of art I You know when I see them I have to get them Because you know just like the 60s drums that I do not collect I've got enough to say that people could say oh are you collecting them? No, I don't I just appreciate them for their collectability. I know that somebody else, you know I'll put them out there and try and sell them and all that into the right person Like the north drums. I managed to put those in the right place. I don't want to sell them to just anybody I you know, they've got to be Interested they got to have a knowledge of what they are So anyways the same with the paintings if they ever go They're they're going to go to the right person you talking about the north drums and all that stuff that we're referring to on your youtube page I think as we've wrapped up with the Kind of the history of the painted heads of how they just kind of they went away with The the mylar heads and rimo coming out with that technology Which there was a debate between rimo and evans that was on a previous episode Which I will not open that can of worms again, but um, so uh-huh Why don't you take this opportunity to tell people Where they can find you because like I can speak from personal experience that Mr. Jim Messina here is a Wealth of knowledge and his videos are just unbelievably entertaining just to put on and watch on youtube. So that's a good, you know Bart that's a good way to put it You can find me all over the internet if you just put in vintage drums talk dot com That'll take you to the website Okay, yep, then I'm sure if you look on youtube. I'm still listed as gumpf one two three four that's g you m p H and then the numbers one two three four that'll be my channel and that's Where you'll find a lot of the early videos There's a lot of I mean I think I've done over a couple of hundred videos, okay Yeah, so they're all great a lot of the Thanks a lot Bart on the website it says uh It's all video and it's all vintage, you know and it is because Everything I did was on video and then I started covering the chicago show most of those Are on the website, but everything I've done you can find on youtube also You know separate from my channel And I also have some things on facebook I've been put putting some videos up there lately if you go to drum forum dot org I'm listed you can find some of my chicago drum show coverage in there. I'm not really hard to find And now I'm on the drum history podcast Yes, you are and I think people will find it kind of funny that once they watch your videos and your coverage of the chicago drum show They'll see that pretty much everyone who's been on the show With some exceptions have been In your videos like joe luoma mark cooper joe boom I've been doing it for what 10 years now almost didn't I yeah next year. It'll be 10 years I can't believe the time has flown that fast plus. I was doing it even before that, but I'll tell you It's such an honor here for me Like I said, this is the first time I've ever Like granted an interview just because I I don't know I told bart. I told bart. I said look, you know there's some kind of vibe going on here and Bart you don't know this but I I guess I can close out with this I I do admire you for what you've done with your drum history podcast in such a short amount of time And for your age it fits in perfectly with today's technology When I started doing this it was you know vhs tape There was barely an internet You know things were different back then and I grew a little bit along with it but Kind of got a name for itself a vintage drums talk took a name for itself got rolling and I see that Happening with you Well, yeah, don't thank me. I mean you deserve it. You really do you've got you're on the right track. I feel your voice your demeanor is just Right for the times, you know, uh again Folks, I want you to know out there If all of you are listening that usually listen to be or watch my videos that i'm in my 60s now And bart is in his 20s It's it's cool. So I would like to take this opportunity to invite you bart to co-host this year's Chicago vintage and custom drum show. I feel that you would be a fantastic Partner an addition to what vintage drums talk usually offers. I know. What do you think of that? I love it? Oh my gosh, that is a Honestly, I don't want to put you on the spot or anything I will give you a resounding yes, and that is one of the To to think that I was watching you a year ago Wanting to be there I'm in isn't that funny. It's kind of like my nephew christopher One of my cameraman. Okay guys. Yes one of my cameraman is my nephew And he you know was a little kid when he you know when he started coming to the shows with me But now he has he has gained all the success As a as a technician He's out on the road with lady gaga and madonna and all this stuff. Okay, that's that's making a long story short But but it's kind of the same thing his first job Professional job was with tower of power Okay, my absolute all-time favorite Group man. We used to take him. We used to take christopher to the concert. So Kind of what you're talking about a year ago. You were watching me and now here I'm asking you to join me And I'm glad to have you but I but I know that feeling of just hot You're kidding me. It's It's a blast. Oh my god, you know, you feel like come on. You're kidding, you know, no, I'm not kidding I I see the future in you to tell you the truth You know, I'm not going to go on forever Vintage drums talk may be with you But as far as this year, I could see you and I having a lot of fun At the chicago show and I think the audience would really enjoy Probably two of their favorite people the drum history podcast and vintage drums talk dot com I'm I'm I'm just honored that you're saying yes. I'm glad and there's so much more we can do Okay, so once again as I always say You know once you get bit By the vintage drum bug. It's all over Jim Messina From vintage drums talk dot com Oh, I love it. Jim Bart. Wow. Thank you so much I am absolutely in everyone who's listening can look forward to that and I will keep everyone updated And Jim you and I can talk offline later. Um, that's right I think this is just a perfect way to end the show on such a high note and I am all smiles here. So, um Well, I'm elated myself because you know, I think you know, I had a great time here talking with you, Bart Oh, that's great. I'm excited and I'm honored to have you do it. So everybody out there Watch for us at the chicago vintage and custom drum show this year. Yeah, all right Perfect. I love you, man. Love you too, buddy. I'll talk to you later Thank you so much If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history And please share rate and leave a review and let me know topics that you would like to learn about the future Until next time keep on learning This is a Gwyn sound podcast