 Welcome to Tough Love with Loretta Chan, where Hawaii's changemakers talk tough on the islands they love. And today's esteemed guest is a professor of accountancy and a director of the Pacific Asian Management Institute, or PAMI, in the Scheitler College of Business Administration at the University of Hawaii. And since joining UH in 1986, Dr. Daniel has served in a number of leadership positions and has generated over 25 million in sponsored research and training programs. She's also a licensed CPA and a past president of the Hawaii Society of CPAs and the Hawaii Chapter of Women Corporate Directives. She currently serves on the board of directors of American Savings Bank and was also recently featured in the book Inspiring Women of Hawaii, where 24 of Hawaii's leaders were profiled. So this is where I pluck the book that I wrote, and I have the privilege and honor of interviewing Dr. Daniel. So, of course, I had to take the opportunity to invite her to the studios, so please welcome Professor Shirley Daniel. Hello, everyone. Welcome, welcome, welcome. You know, I am such a huge fangal of you. I mean, I had the honor of meeting you years ago in Singapore. It was a women in business conference at a Singapore Management University, and that was where we met. And we had no idea that years on we'd become firm friends. In fact, I really consider you a mentor of mine. But share with our audience, how did you end up in Hawaii in 1986? Well, I first came to Hawaii as a professor at the College of Business. But I came out as a tourist. I visited a friend of mine who I'd gone to college with, and she was working for an accounting firm at the time. And so in the course of visiting her, I met some other people, and I started thinking about Hawaii, but actually it was more of a personal reason that I ended up coming. And so six years later, after getting a PhD and changing my entire life, I ended up coming as a new green assistant professor at the University of Hawaii. And then you very quickly made segues, and from accounting you actually made headway into international business. How was that like in the 90s? Well, you know, again in the late 80s, it was the Japanese bubble, really. I mean, there was a lot of focus on what was going wrong with U.S. manufacturing and what was going right with the Japanese manufacturing. And so there was a lot of interest in academia about what management tools, what business accounting and management needed to be changed in the U.S. to compete in the global economy. And so even though I hadn't really had much experience with that growing up in Oklahoma, when I came to Hawaii, there were a lot of international business experts at the College of Business. And that's one of the wonderful things about the University of Hawaii, is that we have such a strong focus on Pacific Asia and Asian culture, language, business, law. And so when I came to the university, I began to see this as a real opportunity for me to learn more about Asia. And of course as a professor, the way you learn is you do research. That's right. And in fact now, I mean, you're so involved in the Asian community now, you are actually, you serve as the director of the Pacific Asian Management Institute of PAMI. So you travel a lot to Asia. Tell us about one of your recent trips. Because you're recently in one of my, because I'm from Singapore, and you just went to my neighboring country, Kuala Lumpur. That was your last trip to Asia? Is that right? I think so. Yeah, last summer, I was very lucky to be appointed in 1995 as the director of the Pacific Asian Management Institute, which was actually a center within the College of Business that was started back in the late 70s by Dr. Paul Chung. And in the late 80s, before I was the leader of PAMI, we had a consortium of business schools from around the Asia-Pacific region and several from North America. Right. And so Oceania, North and East, North and South East Asia as well as North America. And so we meet once a year. Right. And so in that process, we learn not only about business in Asia, but education in Asia. And so all the university deans and international business center directors can meet once a year and we share a lot of information about what's working in our programs, best practices, business changes. And it's a very good consortium for us to be able to be involved in. And it's been a privilege of mine to lead the organization. Yeah, so what do you think has been some of the key, I mean, I know this is a very short program and this probably leads to a way longer conversation, but what do you think are some of the key differences between, I was going to say we, but then I kind of feel like I'm from Singapore and I'm halfway in Singapore and I'm here in Hawaii. So how do you think we are different in the United States and in Asia? I mean, obviously I sort of kind of know the difference, but then what do you think? Tell our audience what do you think are some of the observations that you've met that you've seen? Well, obviously things have changed a lot over the 30 years that I've been looking at these issues. In the 50 years ago, the higher education in the U.S. was the model. I would say now that the Asians are catching up very fast and so there's as much of a two-way learning process now much more than there was perhaps when I first started looking at it in terms of higher education. I think that the population demographics are different in each country. So when you go to a place like Malaysia it's a very young country and so also still on the lower end of development in terms of developing countries, so they have an education need in a business climate that takes advantage of and tries to meet the needs of this young population. So as opposed to if you go to a place like Japan or Korea, it's a much older population. So the difference in the competition and the types of programs and the class sizes and things are changing a lot. So again, in the Southeast Asian countries you have a different educational focus than perhaps in China or Japan. I also saw that you went to the Petronas Tower. You spent some time in Kuala Lumpur so that was your last PAMI conference. So how was that experience like for you? Because I think a lot of people have a misconception now of Malaysia especially with regards to Muslim countries etc. I mean how was your experience like being Malaysia in Kuala Lumpur? Well, you know we have a partner school there that hosted the meeting, the University of Kobangsan in Malaysia and they really rolled out the red carpet. We got our special VIP tour of the Petronas Tower. But they also took us to a lot of the special economic development zones that are right there in Kuala Lumpur where we were able to learn about the halal food regulatory system. And one of the goals of Malaysia is to become the leader in terms of certifying halal food that comes in and out of Muslim countries. And so they try to educate importers who want to import different types of food products, even bottled water. You know, you can get halal certification, bottled water. And other kind of beauty products, things like shampoos and things like that. There are certain regulations if you want your product to be certified as halal, they have a set of criteria. So these are things that are very important for if an American business wants to sell to this growing market in Malaysia they may think, oh, this is a way that I can get my product into the country. That's right. I think someone said, if you're not doing business in Asia, you're not doing business, period. On that note, I recently went to Big Island and I had a conversation with a local in Big Island who actually said that we have so many opportunities here in Big Island to process food and all that. But I just want to take it back to your expertise, which is an international business and enterprise. A CEO friend of mine said that, you know, many people aren't really keen on establishing businesses in Hawaii, only to the high risk of government intervention. And in fact, she cited that potential investors hear horror stories, right? Of permits being stopped or canceled, like the termination of super ferry or the ongoing TMT protest. In fact, she was saying that some U.S. mainland investors even regard Hawaii as an international location and park Hawaii under the Pacific Rim International Fund, right? So my question to you is, do you think Hawaii today is a hub of international business? I mean, do you truly believe that? Do you think we have a long ways to go? And if so, what can we do? Well, I think Hawaii is different and that's okay. It's a special place. It's an island. We have a unique cultural heritage and it's very important to maintain that. And if there are certain regulations that are required to keep Hawaii environmentally strong and maintain the culture and our social values, that's okay. That's something that businesses can deal with. I think the main thing is that we are transparent about them and that the rules and procedures are fair and transparent to everyone. I mean, every state has their regulations and one of the cases that's been made recently is the environmental regulations and some of the things in California have been criticized by some industries and some politicians but you cannot deny that the California economy is one of the strongest in the world, not just in the U.S. I think that some of the criticism is just a little bit of whining and that does present opportunities for people in Hawaii who are knowledgeable about these cross-country differences in regulation and in culture and if we can train more people in Hawaii to be the conduit to help explain the people who want to invest here, this is the way things are here. We understand how you do things, we understand how things are done perhaps in the U.S. mainland or in Europe and this is how to navigate things. In my opinion, there's a lot of opportunity for people who are multicultural, know the different legal systems and the languages and customs of both their potential customers and investors from abroad and locally. And speaking of being a conduit and navigating, you have been such a champion for women in business. In fact, you're one of the founders of the Hawaii chapter of Women Corporate Directors International. In fact, you're going upstairs for lunch later on with these women. Tell us what prompted you to start that because you're one of the founding members. Well, I've been interested in corporate governance for quite a while but I have to say that Barbara Tanabe gave me a call and KPMG who's the national sponsor for the Women Corporate Directors was interested in trying to start a chapter here. Barbara's on the Board of Bank of Hawaii and so they actually contacted me and asked me if I'd like to work with them to start the chapter and so I was really privileged to do that and happy to be part of it. What has the climate for women leaders changed me? Obviously it has, right? It is changing. You know, it's slow but steady. What else do you think we can do? Well, I think awareness is part of it but I think the goal of the Women Corporate Directors is to try to help women network with each other so that we can help each other when there's an opening on the boards. We can let other people know, hey, there's a qualified woman here in town that would be a good candidate, why don't you consider this person. That's right. And education, we have, our seminars are all about current events. We want our members to be better board members and we want to have more women assigned to boards. Yeah, absolutely. We're going to go for a short break soon but when we come back we are going to quiz Shirley Moore on obviously how do we get more women involved and we're also going to pick up brains on enterprise as well as education. So stay tuned and we'll be right back. Hi, I'm Rusty Kamori, host of Beyond the Lines. I was the head coach for the Punahou Boys varsity tennis team for 22 years and we're fortunate to win 22 consecutive state championship. This show is based on my book which is also titled Beyond the Lines and it's about leadership, creating a superior culture of excellence, achieving and sustaining success and finding greatness. If you're a student, parent, sports or business person and want to improve your life and the lives of people around you tune in and join me on Mondays at 11 a.m. as we go Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii. Aloha. Aloha. I'm Keisha King, host of At the Crossroads where we have conversations that are real and relevant. We have spoken with community leaders from right here locally in Hawaii and all around the world. Won't you join us on ThinkTechHawaii.com or on YouTube on the Think Tech Hawaii channel. Our conversations are real, relevant and lots of fun. I'll see you at the Crossroads. Aloha. Well welcome back and today we're speaking with Professor Shirley Daniel who is an accountancy professor and a director of the Pacific Asian Management Institute Opame and the Scheichler College. She's also a licensed CPA and a past president of the Hawaii Society of CPAs and the Hawaii Chapter of Women Corporate Directors. She currently serves on the board of directors of American Savings Bank and just before a break I was picking her brains on how we can get more women involved in corporate boards, right? So aside from just getting more women involved in corporate boards how can we inspire more Hawaiians towards enterprise because this is my quick observation, okay? I haven't been here for too long, just about a couple of years. What I've noticed is that I think Hawaiians in general are still pretty risk-averse except when it comes to surfing, I mean, they're like, they go all out. But when it comes to taking risks with business and their money I think they're still pretty risk-averse and that's what I think. Many prefer to actually work with the state or work for other enterprises and when they do take the plunge to set up businesses I've noticed they set up nonprofits or they tend towards network marketing. I'm not a fan, I'll say. But how do you think we can begin to even have this conversation on enterprise and getting people to be more entrepreneurial? Well, I think traditionally in Hawaii we have a lot of influence from the Asia region. And so I think particularly on the Japanese side you know, one of the largest ethnic groups traditionally here are the Japanese Americans. And that's just culturally Japanese, we know our Japanese culture is more risk-averse. And part of it is not, it's the fact that you have an obligation. I think if you start to think about the reason why they may feel this way in some societies and actually even Hawaiian culture is this way you're in a community and you have an obligation to the rest of your community. So just making money on your own is not necessarily what your key to happiness or your role in society. So your role is to be part of the community. Now when you fail you've let down your community. So it's not just your failure. It's a failure that you have sort of created that affects more people. And so there's a reluctance to do something that you might let other people down or let your community down. Yeah, that's just an observation because I remember speaking to Connie Lau because I was thinking like in America and maybe I'm Singaporean and I said, well, how do we encourage people to save? And she says, well, actually you'd be surprised. You know, the highest savings rate, you know, of course the United States. But and so you're so right on that. I mean, so can I just pick your brains then? I mean, I hear you that there's a sense of obligation and duty. So instead of setting up say enterprises or going towards nonprofit, I mean, what about this model of social enterprise? I mean, I'm a huge advocate for social enterprise because I think that it fuses business know-how and being able to seize opportunity. But yet it could also allow for the local Hawaiians to say give back to the community. Right. I feel like this notion of social enterprise hasn't really caught on here in Hawaii. Well, I think it's kind of a funny name. So I think, you know, if we could come up with a simpler name, maybe it would be to explain it. I think that especially in the younger generation that they do want to have an enriching career. Right. So again, just a job that you're moving up the corporate ladder may not be that appealing to the next generation unlike me and my baby boomer counterparts. But so I think, you know, having some sort of a mission where you're adding value to society is desirable. Right. The question of how do you set up the enterprise to do that, you know, that might be an argument or something to look at in terms of different legal formations. So as an educator and a business person to me, what you actually did to us in the 90s, you worked with Dean David McLean to found the Pacific Asian Center for Entrepreneurship. So do you think, and I feel like what you're doing is using education as a platform to guide youths, the millennials and the alpha generations to come, to sort of gear them up towards having the entrepreneurial minds that you're guiding them through these educational platforms. I mean, share with us more on what you have done and what you are doing. Well, in the late 90s, I was able to spend some time and look at other business school activities on the mainland and I saw that many of them had entrepreneurship centers and we had not yet established one. So when I came back from that study trip to these different schools, I said, we should have an entrepreneurship center. Yeah, absolutely. I asked some professors to come out from established programs during the summer and teach some courses and we learned from them and we set up the Pacific Asian Center for Entrepreneurship. Right. And we were very fortunate that we got some donations from investors, local community people and some from California and also at that time the governor also helped to seed our entrepreneurship center. So we got started on a program, we developed a number of courses and an annual business plan activity and the program has grown since then. Wow. And again, the idea is to try to expose students to successful entrepreneurs as role models and to allow them to have some practice to develop a business idea and sort of get it strength tested or stress tested in a business plan competition. And so we, you know, there's a whole process that actually will be starting in January. Oh wow. Every new year we have it in the summer or in the spring semester rather. So they can find it online and in the summer. Yeah, if you look at the Pacific Asian Center for Entrepreneurship in the Shidler College, you'll see information about the business plan competition that's going to be starting. What are some of the biggest success stories from the business plan competition on the off the top of your head? Well, I have to say we've had a number of really great ideas. Some of the best ideas are when our business students pair up with those in the sciences. So you don't have to just be a business student to participate. You just need to have one person on the team be a UH student. And so I guess one that's close to my heart is my friend over in electrical engineering, Maggie Eskindar, who won a couple of years ago with a medical device that he developed to try to detect lung fluid, which is a problem for heart failure patients and actually a number of diseases. Is that already in the market? He's been developing it. He's gotten a couple of NIH grants since then and trying to keep developing the technology on that. Wow, that's amazing. And on that note, again, going back to enterprise and education, you are obviously a huge believer in education. You shared with me that your best investment has been your education. So given the high cost of college, we're just talking that we have all these great competitions, et cetera, in UH. But what do we do if some of these students aren't in UH? Are there ways to help them get access to education? I think you're working on something to initiatives. We have programs that I have been associated with in the past, the gear up program, where we developed ways to go down into the junior highs and try to get people in the junior high to start thinking about college. If your parents never went to college or you don't know someone other than maybe your school teacher, which is not necessarily, you don't think of as your friend, if you don't have a personal relationship with someone who went to college, you may not think of it as something that you could do. So one of the first things is to get students and their parents to realize that college is possible for them. And college doesn't necessarily mean going through a four-year program. It can mean going to one of our excellent community colleges. I know you're teaching it. That's right. Thank you very much. Come to Leroy. There are a variety of skill sets that you can learn through the community college while you try to figure out what your career path is going to be. Some of them are in healthcare, some are in the building trades, some are in other kinds of computer technology. Each of the community colleges has some really unique programs, even things that are focused on Native Hawaiian cultural practices and fishing and farming and things, as well as our excellent culinary programs that train people for all of the world-class hotels and restaurants that are here in Hawaii. I'm actually really interested in that, so I'm going to quiz you a little bit more on your Native Hawaiian initiatives, because obviously I teach out in Leeward, and I also started like a theater program in the Waianai Moku campus, that there is a huge interest now, especially when I go out there to the Waianai Moku site, like these students are actually inspired, like they want to come to school, and it was not a possibility for them, so what we did was we took college to them, and we have now a campus there in Waianai Moku. My question to you is that in 1998, you and your staff led the proposal development for the Native Hawaiian Leadership Program, right? Well, share with us a little bit more about that and where that is now today. Well, the program was a grant opportunity with the U.S. Department of Education, and I worked with a few others, and my very good friend, Manuka Iyama, who became the principal investigator for the program when we got the federal funding, and she ran that program for maybe eight or ten years, I'm not sure how many, but the focus was to try to not only provide scholarships for Native Hawaiians to go to college, but also to develop leaders by funding faculty, Native Hawaiian faculty, so that they can get tenure. We had graduate scholarships, so that you could not just finish undergraduate, which is where a lot of financial aid focuses on undergraduate. Sometimes in certain fields, you need a master's degree or even a Ph.D., and so we funded some graduate work, and so then when that program was sort of rearranged by the Department of Education, she was working with the Kamehameha Schools to try to continue some parts of it, and in this last year, they've gotten a new grant, and so they're funding some more graduate scholarships than some other programs under that new grant. Wow, amazing. You know, my friend Manu is an excellent strong leader within the Hawaiian community. But on that note, I have to congratulate you. You yourself just won a Fulbright Scholarship, or grant, right? Well, I'm in the process of hopefully getting Fulbright. The U.S. phase was successful, so now it's in the hands of the European side to see if they will fund my project. I'm hoping to do some research next fall when I'm on sabbatical on the new restructuring directive that the EU... I know, I was looking at photos on a research project. I'm always so jealous, right? But anyway, on that note, while I dream of spending Christmas in Europe, I thank you so much, Dr. Danil, thank you so much for being here, and for all of you, thank you so much for watching Tough Love with Loretta Chan, because you know, tough times don't last, but tough people, like Shirley, they do. And so will you. Well, join us next year where we'll see you in our brand new studio. Well, till then, season's greetings and meli kaliki marker in advance. See you next time. Bye-bye.