 Hi, welcome to CCTV, Channel 17, live at 525, the Preservation Burlington Show. Preservation Burlington is a not-for-profit 501C3 organization, and our mission is to preserve and protect the historic architecture and livability of Burlington through education and advocacy, and I think we do a really great job. I'm full of myself tonight. I think we do too. I think we do too. And thanks everybody for tuning in. We've decided, Lisa and I have decided that we are going to just do the show by ourselves. The heck with guests? Yes, yes, absolutely. I mean, we fill a half an hour pretty easily. Yes, we do. And everybody loves our banter, right? No, but we did actually come up with sort of like a new little topic or series of show topics that I think will be of interest to people. I mean, they're interesting to us, so they must be interesting to everybody else. But no, one of our newer board members asked me a really good question when she came on board, and she said, I don't really know Burlington that well. Which buildings should I know? And so it's like, oh, there's so many. It's such a great question. We all know them, right? But we've got to share the knowledge. Even when you put that out there, and then she said that, and we started just kicking around buildings and ideas, and then topics and buildings. We talked about John Roberts. We talked about, you know, all the districts. Immediately I wanted to talk about the Five Sisters, because it never became a district, but it's on the cusp. The work is done and ready, you know, and just convincing people that it's an important thing, you know. And I think we do, we can do housekeeping at the end right now. We have the annual meeting coming up. Yeah, let's do it right now, since you launched right into it. That's right, so. Awards. And the annual meeting and the awards ceremony is going to be the 18th of October. October. Thank you. It's a Wednesday night. Wednesday night. Catered event. We're doing it Main Street Landing again. I think the Black Box Theater or the other theater. I can't remember which exactly, but it's on the website. I think it's the bigger one. Yeah. We have a speaker. Who's the speaker? You should know. Oh, no, no, no. You invited him. Well, Devin sent it around. Oh, we have Bob Blanchard. Bob Blanchard, because he just did the book on Lost Burlington. My father-in-law read it. He loves it. I don't want to read it, because I don't want to be sad about things we don't have anymore. But he said there's a lot of, the examples of architecture back to tonight's topic is huge in Burlington. And through sheer luck, I think, we've mostly saved so much of it. We have, aside from urban renewal, and we know what that did, and we know the City Place project right now, and Champlain College's project about urban renewal is coming to fruition, and that's going to be in November. We're going to have another event. All this stuff is all coming together right now. So yeah, it'll be really interesting to hear Bob's talk, and then immediately go to Champlain College and see what the students have put together to talk about that neighborhood. 100%. And I just hope that we have some buildings that are endangered in Burlington right now that they don't go as an addendum or an appendix in Lost Burlington in a couple of years. I know. It's frustrating to see the nation and the buildings they're saving, and obviously the first one that comes to mind for me is the cathedral, you know, a modernist gem in the heart of the city with a park-like atmosphere, and yeah. So well, fingers crossed. I know we're doing... A cemetery tour? Yep, yep. Lakeview. Yes. Are you going to dress up again? I don't know. It's up to Bob Deveno whether I dress up or not. I don't know. It was fun. It was nice being in character, but yeah, I'll be there too and we'll be... Oh, I'll be there because you made me be there. Yep, yep. I've already told you. You said you wouldn't do it unless I did it too. Yes. 100%. It's a team effort. It's all going to be so much fun, and it's going to be warm, and it's not going to be raining. Right. And we'll have hot cider. It's going to be great. Yeah. Yeah. All this is on the website, right? And our Facebook page, I think. And there's going to be more and more coming up about it as we go, and then we're coming into Art Hop and those walking tours coming up real soon, so there's a lot that's going on. Fall. Pumpkins-wise coffee at one hand and a tour at the other. I think back to the spring, I mean, obviously, well, not spring so much. The year is pushing for the home store. Everything is home store, home store, home store. And then that happens, and everybody breathes a sigh of relief. We take a month off. Mm-hmm. Don't have a meeting. And then immediately it's the education committee just trying to pull together all the big ideas we've had that were sort of pushed around by the home store, you know? And I love the home store. It's amazing. It's like the party at the end when it's finally happened, and everybody's happy. It's just really amazing. But then I feel like the fall is when we're cramming in all the last fun stuff we could do. One or two cemetery tours or this or that, you know, Art Hop and, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it's kind of like when people come alive, they come back from vacation and there's an interest, and it's actually warm, not warm enough, cool enough to walk around and not like melt into a puddle. But yeah, so we thought we'd start today this little series with Burlington's firehouses. We've got a really, really rich history of firefighting in Vermont right here in Burlington and the buildings that we have to illustrate have all different styles, and they're all over town, and they have some really great histories. So. I've got a couple of favorites. Yes. I'm just sorry we couldn't get the person who wrote the book on historic fire. Oh, so we're not even going to talk about it because it's a horrible book. The department's here. But yeah, it's good. The reason I fell in love with firehouses and Burlington's firehouses in the beginning or altogether is from a grad school project, you know, like in Bob's class. It was actually a tax credit project, and we had a bunch of different buildings to look at. And then my team had the fire station number three up on Mansfield Avenue, which is Burlington's long and probably Vermont's oldest running firehouse, like still operating. Yeah, still functioning as a firehouse. Right, right. It's been through some changes, but you know, and so I was, it was a long story, but I was, I drew the card to go down the hill to central to do a bunch of research because that's where the fire department historian was and ended up dating him, and that's how I love fire. That's cheating. That was the fire I know, but it was awesome. That's so cheating. It's all good. So, let's look at a couple of them. So the first one that we have up here is the, what used to be the Ethan Allen engine house and then became fire station number one. This was built in 1889, and I don't have any really good historic pictures with me. The left is what it looks like now, or I think that was like 2006. Everybody recognizes it. Yeah, and on the right is, in its early days, so it was built in 1889, when central firehouse, which is down on Lower Winooski, near the library, right, when that was built, that became sort of the hub, the fire station number one, and this went to the police department, the police department moved in, and I can't tell whether that's the police department or the fire department over there. They moved into the, into that fire department. Into the Ethan Allen engine house, yes. And that's right next to City Hall. Yes. Yep. Just up on the same side. They, and look at those old, gorgeous doors that they had, the engine, the bay doors. The fire, now the police had it until 1969 when they moved out, and then it came into disrepair, and I didn't really realize this, or remember this until I was looking up this history again for today, but in 1973, it was in such crap condition, it was slated for demolition. Really? Yep. And then, you know, citizens and all kinds of groups got together and advocated for it, what does that sound like? And there was a big restoration, went underway. Shelburne Museum actually had the bell for years and years and years, and when it was restored, when the building was restored, the bell went back. So it was up there back in the, in the host tower, so if you're feeling cheeky and you want to climb up and ring the bell, apparently, I don't know if it's still functioning if it has it. What is it called? The clapper in the middle? The clapper. Yep. So that is the history of this building. It does have a host tower. It's just not in this picture. See. Right. So it's Burlington City Arts now, and it's constantly, I mean, they're always doing some interesting stuff. They've got programming at the back now. You know, so that's a real thing. And if you go inside too, and like some of this stuff has been changed, there's drop ceilings in there and, you know, modern stuff, but they've kept some really beautiful features, like the fireplace is still there and you can still sort of get that sense. Get in those rooms and the trim package is basically intact, and yeah, you can see what it was, basically, what it was like then. And of course, the footprint and the fenestration is the same. So it still reads as this firehouse, you know, and they don't call it the firehouse gallery anymore. I think they did for a little while. They don't. I don't know. I think it's Burlington City Arts now, because that's where their headquarters is. I'm always, it's kind of like the Sheraton's always going to be the Sheraton to me. I know. Right. So next we have, this is fire station number three up on Mansfield Avenue. It was built in 1896, funnily enough, this firehouse and the conditions around or the circumstances around it's being built and sort of led to Burlington being incorporated as a paid municipal cohesive fire department in 1895. What came first, that or this building? That. Really? Yes. So in the bottom right hand corner, you see a little trim building looks more residential. That's the AC Spear Hose House, and that was in this location. And back in the early 1800s, there was a lot of volunteer fire departments and host companies, as they were called. Right. Competing. Competing against each other. They were independent and they had two models of operation. One was they were just like private, all volunteer companies where they weren't paid, but the men didn't have to pay taxes and they were exempt from military duty, which was kind of cool. I wonder if they volunteers have any perks now. And then the other model was they were sponsored by industry. So, you know, like a industry like the Booth Lumber Mills had their own hose company to protect their interests. Right, like an unretainer or something. Exactly. So they were funding that. So you protected your house first, and you know, if your neighbor's house was burning, mmm, oh well. I know, I know. I've read some stories about the competitions between the different fire companies. Oh, they were like games. It was like the Olympics. That was the fun part. The non-fun part. Yeah, it was letting somebody's house burn down because you were mad at them. Yeah. They were operated with, you know, horse-drawn hose wagons, and they had leather buckets, and that's where the term bucket brigades come from. Yeah. Super cool. So anyway, the AC Spear House burned in 1895. You can see that wagon on the corner of that one at the bottom there, facing us. Yeah. You don't notice it, but you can see the wagon wheels. Yeah. And their uniforms are pretty snazzy. Yeah. I'm probably not there working uniforms, but... I bet you those stripes are all guild-like, right? Yeah, probably. But when that burnt down and the Burlington Fire Department sort of, you know, all the host companies got together, the city said... That building burned down? The Spear House. The original one. Yeah, burned down. And that's kind of speared, was one of the catalysts to the volunteer departments coming together. Becoming... One department. They had municipal chief, but they were still sort of volunteers and separated. And then station three was built in its place. Now you can... And it's still there. So what's the date of that building? 1896. Oh, I see. It's right up there. So it was rebuilt right after that fire. Yeah. Okay. So the other one was probably mid-1800s or something? Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. And you can see that the two windows next to the fire truck peeking out, that was another bay. But in 1940, the then chief wanted to save money and said, okay, let's make it a one-level building so that we don't have to heat the upstairs. So they moved the fireman's quarters downstairs into the old bay and where the stables were. Can we bring that back? I would love to see it brought back. I think the fire department would love to see it brought back too, because it's no fun sleeping next to where the engine is. Right next to the truck. Yeah. Right, right. But it's actually reported to be haunted upstairs. There's been many stories of a wheelchair going across the floor up and back, and the firemen who are awesome, and I love them dearly. But they're like, we're not going upstairs after dark. They will not go upstairs because it's haunted. So yeah, that is station three. It's one of my favorites. Next we have this one you might know. This is the Barnes-Hose House, and this is on North Champlain Street. This was... It's one of my favorites. Residential now, right? It was like a safe house, a community building. It was converted, but they've really kept the integrity of the building. You can still see that bay door in the front. It is Burlington's second longest-serving firehouse, and it used to have a two-horse wagon in there and two horses. A lot of them did. So I like this one. It's really easy to just drive by. You have to go slow down that road, which you should anyway, and then stop and... Yeah, yeah. I pass it all the time. It's right near the paint store down there. Yep, yep. There you go. I love watching that. This is the one I wanted to bring up. I want this one. You do. I want to buy this one. It's near my house now. Just imagine... First of all, obviously, you can see some of the fenestration stuff. It wasn't as successful as the previous example, right, because they sort of put that funky window and door in the front. The windows are all too short now for the openings. Yeah, but that's flexible. The openings haven't been break-in, yeah. It's reversible, and then if you go further behind it, they've been in and added like one bay or two bay garage down in the back that would make a perfect shop. Mm-hmm. And you could live in a firehouse. Yes. So what's the story with the... The story with this one was built in the late 1800s, and then it was remodeled in 1910 to be station five. Station five is now down off Ferguson Avenue and down that way. But it didn't, and it had a two-horse hose wagon, and if you look around the other side, I think you can still see the short windows up top that showed where the stables were. Yeah, the stables, yeah. But it didn't stay a firehouse very long, I think only about five years, and then Chief Stockwell and his Studebaker moved in. So the horses went and it became residential, and so it's been residential probably since 1925. The cool thing about these buildings is the footprint and their brick, their sturdy built, they're sturdily built, and so they weather changes pretty well. So if someone did want to sort of get back to that traditional, and for me, I'm a big fan of windows, so more light, the better. So I see that, and the first thing I want to do is pull those windows out, send them to the dump, and put some real windows in there. You mean recycle them. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, if they're vinyl, they go right to the dump. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Well, I couldn't find original pictures of this one. I don't know if any exist, you know, if anybody in the audience has an original image before the front was changed like this, it would be great to see, you know, the bay door and how that looked. Yeah, and what that bay window looked like. I think that bay window is close to original. Yeah. It's got some interesting detailing. That's slate up top, yeah. It's a slate roof, and it's sort of got a corbled bottom underneath there that looks like it could be original. I think probably the diamond is new, and they've trimmed out, and the windows, obviously. Yep. Yeah, that's it. I was about to ask about this one when we were looking at the other one, just because the massing is similar, and I know I want this one, so I didn't mean to get over leaps. Do you know who owns it? Have you made friends with them? Not yet, but I'm going to check the grand list as soon as it shows over. That's awesome. And this one, everybody knows, because it's downtown. This is Central Fire Station. This is 1926, and at this point you can see this one didn't have a hose tower. The Howard Hose House didn't either, but this really reflected a change not only in architectural styles and trends and tastes, but evolution of fire department technology as well. So now leather hoses, leather was used for everything. Can you imagine how much leather was used for a hose, a really long hose? The Howard Hose has replaced the leather ones, and so they didn't need these elaborate, drying hose towers, so the hose tower disappeared from firehouse design. And so this one took over from the Ethan Allen engine house on Church Street. The fire department moved in here, upstairs is the living quarters. There's four big bays, down the bottom there's a basement as well. They were administrative offices, so this was really grand and beautiful, and it's also, you know, the city, got a lot of Burlington, but it does not take care of its buildings. And this is one of them that has been paying over the years from deferred maintenance. Yeah, kicking the can down the road. But it's still functioning as the firehouse, and it's still, they live upstairs, still. Yep. Yeah, it's serving its purpose. If you think about 1926, this is, you know, a little bit older than Memorial Auditorium, but it's that massive municipal design, you know, that, like you said, I mean, it's just a lot of pride in the buildings we were building back then. Yes. You know, they served a purpose. We were proud to house our firemen in there, their grand buildings, and yeah, if we could shame the municipal government a little bit, you know, I know the windows are in dire need of restoration. They're still seemingly original, you know, they've got some storm windows on there. The brick needs some repointing, the outside needs some care, but it's a great place, and I think too, it's on a prime piece of land, too. So there's a little bit of contentious controversy over it, but it used to stand opposite, or it stands where it stood, but opposite it used to stand the strong theater, right? Right. Which is now the back of the free press or something. Yeah, the building isn't there. Yeah. That burned in a fire, too. Ironically. Across the street from the fire department. Yeah, but there's so many stories of like, you know, it's of the firemen on shift going over watching a movie, and then the bells, they put bells inside the strong theater, so that if there was a fire, they could get out and go tend to the fire. So I think that's really cool. What else do we have? That might be it. There's also obviously in the south end and then the new north end, there are two other firehouses that are not as historic, but they were built in the fifties. Yeah. Which is potentially remodeled in 1991, pretty much. So I think the one in the south end was like a one-story, it was a one-story, and then it was a new bigger building was built around it in the nineties. Yeah. Yeah. Brick. Not bad. Yeah, 100%. It matches the one in the new north end and then the old north end. What's the one in the new north end called? 4. That's station 4. Okay. Ferguson is 5. It's really kind of funky. Central station downtown is 1. Yeah. 2 is on North Avenue, just up from the police department. Yep. 3 is up on Mansfield Avenue, 4 is in the new north end, and 5 is in the south end. And of course they can't change that, they can't go clockwise. Why would they? Everybody knows. So, they know where they're going, and the memory they have in the streets, like how they know what's where and what's connected, it's incredible how they know where they're going. How many firemen do we have about? I don't know anymore. I know they have rotating shifts, and they used to be 24 on, 48 off. Now I believe they're 48 on, 72 hours off. Now it used to be a crew of 80, all told, like with all the shifts, but I don't know what it is anymore. Okay, but probably hovering around there. I'm hoping they stayed up, not like our police department, and honestly these guys, they work their butts off. Yeah. They're really running all night, half the time, especially now. So, mucho respect to them, and give them a raise, Mayor. Yeah, and take care of the buildings. Yes. Which one is on North Avenue in Burlington? That's station two. Station two? Yeah. It doesn't have a fancy name or a back story. It's named, I think, for the chief, which I'm embarrassed that I can't remember it. I can see it almost. I'm driven by it. Yeah. Yeah. It's got one of those more modern, you know, you recognize a name from Burlington. Yeah. It's got, I think, quite a few bays. It's big. Do they live in that one, too? Well, they all do. Each and every one. Each firehouse has living quarters, yeah, because they're there for 24, 48 hours, yeah. Yeah. And this one, Central, is haunted, too. Oh, really? Is it? Yes. Wheelchair again? No. No, I think there's a presence. There's somebody who, as of 10 years ago, anyway, he was still there. His presence was there, and he would walk around. I can't remember the stories. If I remember them, I'll let you know. We'll have to have, what's her name on, haunted Burlington. Oh, I forget her name, too. Thea. Thea. Yes. Thea, come on, and she'll tell us about it. I'm sure it's right at the top of her head, all the ghosts in Burlington. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a great building. And, you know, in the summer, they sit there with the doors open, and they're open to visitors, and they love people coming in and saying hi. Yeah. What kid doesn't love a firetruck? Yeah. Yeah. I love a firetruck. I'm not a kid anymore. Yeah. So, those are Burlington's firehouses, and I think, you know, people sort of just drive by them, but they were designed with specific trends and tastes and, like, essentials. Definitely, you know, had architectural thought into it, and just, like, things like power stations, right? They were built in, like, a grand form so that people would trust them and revere them and embrace the technology. We're so, I mean, again, we, as a society, I think, in general, in Burlington, we are pretty lucky, you know, and I know we're all on the edge of our seat about Memorial Auditorium and stuff, but we have a good amount of grand municipal properties left. And it's, I know it can be challenging to get voters to back referendums, to get money to pay for these, or to bond issues, to pay for the maintenance and the restoration of these buildings, because it's been neglected for so long, you know, but not too distant past. Everything we built was built to last and was built with pride in our community, you know. And this, they, but they don't last on their own, right? Right. Nature will take over everything. And we're asking our guys to live here. I think a hundred years with no people, everything's going to be gone. I think that's the number I saw, you know, 100 years, everything's starting to come. I mean, just, you know, you drive down the street and the little grass is trying to come up in the cracks of the road of asphalt, right? Nature is a powerful force, but... Oh, yeah. Mother Nature's mean. No, she's powerful. She's not mean. So hold up your book, hold up your book so people can see it, because it's definitely, it's one of those groups. I know I have almost all of these. I know I have yours. It's the Burlington Firefighting. You have to hold up for a minute so the camera can see the man on it. Let's see. It's the Burlington Firefighters. It's part of that series. Yeah. Who, who publishes them? Arcadia. Arcadia, Arcadia. I always get this one wrong. Yeah, yeah. They're fun to collect. Yeah. Because there's lots of really great pictures in there. Arcadia. Interesting histories, right, you know, so you get a whole bunch of them. You can have a show. Yeah. It's a lot of pictures. What was the hardest part about putting the book together? Tell us about that. Honestly, the schedule. There was not an easy publisher to work with. Oh, really? And they were really like pushing, like get it done, get it done, get it done. So I mean, there was a little more research I would have wanted to do, you know, better pictures I wanted to find, but it was like, nope, we got to get this done published out, out, out, out the door. So. And you were a student when you were putting this together, right? I was still in grad school, yes, yes, yes, and a single mom. So it was a lot. But it was a really good experience. It really taught me a lot, and I'm really proud of it, you know, it's, would I do things differently? Yes, would I include different, you know, content? Well, like you said, if you had more time, and you, it wasn't your first one. It was my first one. With all the juggling, all the other, you know, things. But it was, it was great, and I think my favorite part of it really was just unearthing the histories and talking to the, the retired firefighters and going around and just hearing the stories, because they have some great stories. And I don't want them to be lost. And I think that's why we're here in preservation anyway, and saving these buildings. Because the stories matter, they really do. Thank you. I always forget. People go, why do you do this? I'm like, I don't know. I really, I don't. Sometimes I don't know, you know, you beat your head against a wall or something, and you want to save this stuff. But it's true. It's our, you know, it's our built heritage. It's our cultural heritage. The people's story, the actual living people's stories. So every time, you know, we're working on some building, you know, if it's Electrahabermyre Web at the museum, or if it's an 1870 building, and I don't, I find, you know, a piece of lumber with the builder's name on it, you know. And we're like, oh, it's that guy. He did it this way. This is why we're trying to put it back exactly the same way. Not, I don't need to put my footprint on it, you know. Yeah. It's on us to, you know, teach the younger generations, like, they need to hear these stories and to appreciate their surroundings and the context. And, you know, once you tell people what happened here, or why it was built this way, or what that feature is, or what style that building is, then they're like, oh my God, that makes so much sense. I love this. Tell me more. But if we don't, if we just gloss over it, we're going to lose it. Yep. Yep. It's true. So, which reminds me that one last thing I want to mention before we get off the air here. And this is just an exercise in saying it until it becomes a reality. But I've spoken to enough people, and I've just been to, I mentioned Providence, Rhode Island when I was there for the Historic Trade Summit, that Vermont and New England, I know we have Bennett Street School, but New England is desperate for a trade school in the restoration and the preservation trades, traditional trades. You know, we have the Tech Center, and we have things like that for electrical, for plumbing, for some of the things that are, you know, and lots of stuff for data and technology. But we don't have people teaching masonry, plaster, paint, paint analysis, carpentry, timber framing. I'm creating a short list of board of directors, so you'll be getting an invite in the mail. Awesome. I want to get a bunch of brains in a room and sit down and go, how do we try to make this a reality? It makes so much sense with the Historic Preservation Program here, and the Civil Engineering Program at UVM as well that has really developed a historic preservation slash engineering curriculum, so we're really well poised to do that. It'll be awesome. Yeah. So, I'm really looking forward to that, and anyway, we'll be talking more about that on the show, beginning and end, so you'll see what people say. Lisa, thanks. We don't need guests. Yes, we do. We've often said it. Well, next month we have our intern, our buddy who did the UVM thing about, UVM's historic buildings, and they did like a historic structures reports, and that's got to be crazy story. It was two students did the whole thing this summer, and we'll see how that worked out. But I want to thank everybody for tuning in to CCTV Live at 525 in Preservation Burlington. We'll have a guest next month. For more information on Burlington history, our tours and events that we've all talked about, or to get a marker for your historic house, go to preservationburlington.org, and we'll see you next month. Thanks for watching.