 Order. Public hearing is for the Community Center Feasibility Study Application to the Vermont Development Community Program. And I'll read a paragraph that Barb just handed to me in reference to that. The Town of Waterbury notice of public hearing. The Town of Waterbury is considering making application to the state of Vermont for a planning grant under the Vermont Community Development Program. A public hearing will be held at the Waterbury Municipal Center 28 North Main Street Steel Community Room on April 2nd, 2018 at 6.45 p.m. to obtain the views of citizens on community development to furnish information concerning the amount of funds available and the range of community development activities that may be undertaken under this program. The impact of any historical or archaeological resources that may be affected by the proposed project and to give effective affected citizens the opportunity to examine the proposed statement for projected use of these funds. The proposal is to apply for a 45,000 in VCDP funds which will be used to accomplish the following activities. The Town of Waterbury will be applying for planning funds to conduct a feasibility study for a new community center that would provide opportunities for an intra-general, generalation, multifunctional facility, a recent Waterbury Visioning Summit sponsored by revitalizing Waterbury in January 2018 indicated a desire to have space and programs available for seniors, children, teens, adults, and families. Revitalizing Waterbury and Waterbury Senior Center are active partners in this application. The feasibility study would include priorities for types of services and activities, other potential partners, estimated costs of programs, estimated scope, and costs of a facility. Potential suitable locations with a priority for existing municipal property, a cash flow analysis, and possible sources of grant funds to help implement the project. And with that, I'm going to turn it over to Barb. Thank you for the opportunity to talk about the potential for the community center project. This is something that came up a number of, actually it came up a few years ago and as a concept and as a result of some additional input from our recreation committee, we've been working with revitalizing Waterbury on a potential new senior or expanded senior center and the children's room is an existing organization that's been looking for a home for a while. There are other groups, there's one that's represented here tonight, an arts community group, looking for space in the community. The overriding and overarching intent to be looked into the feasibility study, the keywords are intergenerational and multifunctional. So it would be something that could be used by all ages, all sorts of different programs, and different times of the day and weekends. Right now there's an overloading on summer camps. Kids that are trying to get into the summer camp program are limited to the number of kids to 80 that can fit on the site down at the recreation fields. The building can only hold 30 people in the building, but in the summer they have outdoor space. The senior center also does meals on wheels. They are squeezed for space and looking for different facilities. And as I mentioned, the children's room and then the arts center. So this is just a feasibility study. We're looking for 80% funding from the Vermont Community Development Program. The public hearing is a part of the process that you have to have a public hearing if you're applying for these funds. They're actually federal funds that come to the state and the state issues them out. This project came to the select board a few months ago to ask to consider applying for the grant. And the answer was yes to consider applying for the grant. This public hearing is a part of that process and as well tonight should you one of the other required things that we need to do is assign a resolution on behalf of the select board and authorizing bill to sign it as well as part of the application. We've been working with Steve and Steve's been working with the planning commission to identify needs in the community. I don't know if you want to speak to that. Yeah, I'll just speak briefly to that. The planning commission discussed the project at their last meeting at the end of March and they authorized Ken to sign a letter. The letter deals with both conformance to the municipal plan and also to their support for the project. And we have a copy of the letter here in the file and they did take that action. They feel that all of these programs specifically are summer recreation program, other recreation programs support for the senior center and the children's room are all in the municipal plan and so they endorse that. I'll just talk briefly about this program. The application is to the Vermont community development program. They are the program that administers the federal community development block grants. We used significant amount of that funding in our flood recovery as I think you're aware of. And the match also for this grant, we're requesting a $45,000 grant of the community development block grant funds for this planning grant or feasibility study. And I would be matched with 6,000, this is what's proposed, $6,250 in revolving loan funds, approximately that amount. These are also community development block grant funds that are in a town account and a village account right now. And then the additional match of 5,000 would be in kind staff time. Chris? Yes, sir. So just to follow up on what Barb and Steve just said, the in kind time is the only taxpayer contribution to this portion of the project. If we decide to go ahead with it, it will mainly be Steve's time and Barb's time as they work with the consultant member is hired to do this feasibility study. We have capacity in the department to do that, the work plan that Steve have can be adjusted and Barb can fit this time into her schedule. So nobody's suggesting that there's no cost to the municipality, but we're not going to pay staff anymore. It's just that they will have some of their time directed to this if we go forward with it. The match of the CDBG money that we have, the $6,250, I think we have about $9,500 in that account right now. That the genesis of that fund was a loan that a CDBG grant that was made initially to the town and village jointly for a pilgrim partnership, I believe, and we're in several generations down the line of using that money. We've used that same CDBG fund to partly fund the seminary building project in Waterbury Center, and then right after the flood we had the town had about 70, the village had 74,000, the town had $151,000 of that money just sitting. There are strings on that money. You can't use it for anything except housing economic development or community development projects where there's at least 50% of the beneficiaries will be low and moderate income folks. So it's been hard for us to get that money out into the community, and after the flood, the select board and the trustees both used all of the CDBG funds that the town had in its coffers to lend to the Lad Hall project down on Main Street to build that housing project. How many units there? I think 20. So the town and the village both lent their full CDBG money back to Lad Hall. The seminary building project has been, they've had two different loans, an $80,000 loan and a $20,000 loan. They've paid off both now? They've paid off all of it about, I think, $5,000 approximately from the $80,000. Right. So the money that the town now has in its coffers has been being paid back by the seminary building loan. As we just indicated, that's close to being paid off. One of the loans is completely paid off. The other one has a little bit of way to go. Neither of the loans from Lad Hall have started to pay back yet. Lad Hall borrowed some money from the village's UDAG fund as well. That amortization schedule has started. There may be some payback from the Lad Hall project to the two CDBG loans beginning this year, but there's a complicated formula about looking at the financial position of that Lad Hall project after their audit is done for the 2017 years. So there's not very many opportunities that we have to actually circulate this money. One of the requirements of the CDBG is if you have CDBG revolving loan fund money in your coffers, they're reluctant to grant you any additional money unless you use a component of that. So we thought that the $6,250 that we talked about was a reasonable amount based on what we had in our coffers, and that's how we'll pay for the 20% local share. Okay. Yeah, I was just going to say, seeing as how this is a public meeting, the public's welcome to speak. Carol, could you come up to the mic please? I know. It's okay. It's a question about the Waterbury money, the revolving loan fund. With these other projects like Lad Hall and the Seminary Building, some other entity is paying back the loan. But who's going to pay back this loan? This would not be, this would not be this would not be a loan. This would be the municipality using it for an eligible municipal function towards this project. You can't use this type of money to build a facility, you know, we couldn't use this money when we were going to build a fire station. But doing planning and feasibility studies is an eligible project cost. So this would not be a loan back to the municipality. It's not a loan to the project. This would be an expenditure of those CDBG funds. Okay. Anybody else? Karen? I'll blend around. Karen Miller, Waterbury Center. So I'm really curious about some aspects of this. You know, when we did the fire station, when we did the physical complex here, one thing we really focused on was a big push for meeting space for people and space for people in the library. They were very adamant about having enough space for programming and that the community could use this space. So I find it a little hard when I was on the board and we had these discussions, why we're coming back to the community now and say we need more space. We need more community space because that was a really big selling point when we got those bonds through. So I have some concern about the legitimacy of that. And I'm hopeful that, you know, I think it's one thing to say that we're not putting any money in, which I had not realized that when we came here tonight because we have public beans like this, that the town's not putting any in. But then the bottom line is, is even if you go through this whole feasibility study, you put all this effort into this, it's going to be a huge project. And how much more as a community can we absorb, all right? So this municipal complex was a huge project and it was an effort to get it done. And again, one of the selling points was space. I mean, we have this really nice space. So that's my concern. One is we already have meeting space. Why aren't we utilizing the space that we have? And then two is how much more can we absorb as a community, particularly if people are really interested in doing something with police. It's going to become overwhelming as far as taxes go. Speaking for staff and then Barb can chime in. I think all your points, Karen, are spot on. They're very reasonable and it's clearly something that, you know, not only have I heard that from the board and from members of the public, but also have communicated that to staff. So just so you know from our perspective, the space that we have in this building is well used. This room has, you know, we have meetings in here many days during the week outside agencies, outside organizations come in and use this space. We have had concerts in this space. The sal room in the library is well used. The recreation program has used that space. Obviously library programs have used that space. The space that we're talking about now is a little bit different type of space in that, you know, we really can't run a summer recreation program out of this room. It's an office building. It's not intended for, you know, children of school age to be in here during the day. Going back long before you were on the board, even to when Carol was on the board, you know, the issue that we had with the scout hall is that it holds 80 people. We used to squeeze over 100 in there. That's a little bit more problematic to do now with some of the requirements that we have. And then we have other requests for space in the community. And this is not, you know, I'm not suggesting that it's the town's obligation to figure out how to provide this space. But in recent years, we've had conversations with visits from the senior citizen center. They're looking for space. We just talked about the recreation space. And then going back to when we recovered from Irene, the community arts space was something that we looked at. And, you know, part of the spin off of that was what Monica Callan and has done there with the grain space. But there are people in the community who are looking for different space. So when a number of weeks ago, back in January, I think it was, I actually called Karen Nevin from Revitalizing Waterbury and Deb Fowler, our rec director, in to meet with me. And I just said, I'm hearing a lot of talk about community centers, senior centers, recreation centers. I said, there's no way that everybody can have one of their own thing. The only way this could happen, if it can happen at all, is to combine forces and find out if you can use one space. And I had read an article about a community in Massachusetts and the senior citizen center went to the city council there and said, you know, the senior center is old and it's really in need of an upgrade. We need a new one. And the city council just said, you know, we just passed a bond issue for a new school. There's no money to do this. And one of the counselors said, well, why can't we put the senior citizen center in the school? And, you know, they can share the cafeteria. They can share the auditorium space. You can have seniors in with kids. So I just had that kind of thought in my head that can it be a multi-generational, multi-purpose space? And told Karen and Deb that the only way this could happen, if it was going to be considered at all, would be to combine forces. And then, you know, after that, revitalizing Waterbury held its community forum. And many of you in this room were at that. I was at it for a few minutes and it came out. That was a recommendation. And there's, you know, we looked into it. There's an opportunity. But this is a feasibility study. And I need to emphasize that. And from my position, and I'm just speaking for myself here, using as a local match the CDBG funds that we have a hard time getting out of the bank into the community. If that's what our investment has to be, to see whether this is indeed feasible or not. I mean, we don't have a lot of land. We don't have, you know, a lot of money to do this. And I just want to be clear that signing up to do the feasibility study doesn't mean that the project is going to be coming next year or five years from now. It's really meant to tell us whether it's even feasible to consider going any further than that. I think one thing I'll add is part of the study is going to be a public process. So this is just an initial conversation with the public in this public hearing. So, you know, we intend to engage both different organizations in the community, formal and informal, including the senior center, children's room, our own recreation department program and the general public. So I just wanted to reassure people that that is a requirement of these grants, just like other feasibility studies that we've done. And so we would really seek input and, you know, at all levels to help see if the project is feasible. And it will be a holistic study as well, not only, you know, identifying who would use the space, how much space would be needed, how much it would cost to build that space. The bigger question for me is how much does it cost to operate that space and who's going to pay for it? Because, you know, there's little appetite, even from staff, to say that the operation of such a facility will be the public's responsibility. So. Well, can I just address us a little bit? The feasibility studies exactly as we've all heard, a huge component of it is figuring out what are the program needs, what are the program costs, who are the program users, and how much is it going to cost in doing the business plan for the entire project. So if it, I mean, if it comes down to the community to shoulder that cost, it's going to be a non-starter right out of the gate, unless Chris Viennes wins the lottery. And then we heard that you might do some nice things. Just missed the last one, so. But I mean, that's got to be a solution and how is it going to be self-sustaining? And if I can just expand on that a little bit, so that's what I'm at concerns is who's going to pay for these programs. Another concern is, are we now going to have yet another staff position to be the director of this whole thing? Because it's going to be a little complicated. Number three is if you look in the context of the other things we got coming down the pike, including a desire on part of some people in this community to have a full-blown police department, which is going to cost. I mean, oh, it's going to be over a million easily, if not more, the kind of center you're talking about. I mean, my goodness, we're not going to build that for a million dollars, that's for sure. No, but if we have a plan that looks feasible and five years, 10 years down the road, it lines up and somebody's a huge benefactor, you never know, another grant. Well, yeah, that's why I'm not going to stand here and say, let's not do the study. But I also know from experience that if people don't start to voice their concerns from the get-go, then when the bond comes down the pike, they said, well, we had all these public meetings and nobody said anything. So that's why after is to let you know that there is concern and I've certainly talked to people and there's a lot of concern about this. Everybody else? Everett? Everett Coffey, Wunewski Street. We keep looking at the feasibility of doing this or that or whatever, and the amount of money that has gone into various projects in Waterbury, the revitalizing Waterbury with the pushes on it or whether they weren't, have been some very good projects. However, my thoughts at the present time, and I've talked to a number of people over the last week as I get the agenda, and I spoke with someone tonight about 5.30, who is about 73, 4 years old, a very professional individual, retired, and I've talked about sidewalks, I've talked about roads. Unfortunately, yesterday morning about 5 o'clock, he fell on the sidewalk in Waterbury Village and he didn't come tonight because he's got skinned hands and other parts of his body. But he said, I'll tell you one thing, it might not be there tonight, but I definitely will be there when there's a vote to either totally go ahead with this thing or not, and I will be voting no. We've got roads in this community that are in extremely poor unsafe conditions. We've got sidewalks that go even beyond that. In fact, I had someone who heavily looked to get tonight but said he was really concerned and had hoped at town meeting I would bring up the Winooski Street sidewalks because of my wife's fall, etc. But I firmly believe that it sounds nice for Bob and Steve and Bill or whoever to polish this apple and it's such a big unknown that until we get our roads and sidewalks, debt load down. I'm not questioning Bill's skills and ability, but we owe X. I think it would be inappropriate and unacceptable at this time to move forward with the feasibility study, and that was for $45,000. A grant application. Grant application, and that would be just for the study. And as the fellow girls had said, and I was pleased and a little surprised if you have concerns, thank you. We've disagreed before. I just think that the art programs are fine. You ask the seniors would like more space, but on front porch forum, you look on there and there's an advertisement that'll probably once a week or more for the YMCA camp in Waterbury. I don't know what it costs or who can get into it. And the other thing, as far as the preschoolers or the kids that come from Duxbury, Moretown, and other places swimming pool wise and other activities, some of them pay and some of them don't pay. And as I said in an email which I sent to Karen at revitalizing Waterbury, why are we so excited about building bike paths and walking paths? For example, from here to Little River, and people come here Friday night and they may ride a walk on the sidewalk or drive on the road a little bit, but they leave on Sunday night, go back to the state they came from, really doesn't cost them a dime. Now local taxpayers are paying a fee. And yes, I don't disagree. The reservoir, probation pig, alzium, bluestone, etc. Make money, which is what you're in business for. I was and made a little. But anyway, I'm still surviving getting three meals a day to sleep, place to sleep. But I really strongly recommend that you think long and hard on this as a slight board before you put your standard approval on it. And if you don't, I think you're going to see people coming out and surprising you people that are opposed to it. So with that said, being on a slight board being a chair is not something that's a project that you're going to be making everybody happy. It's not a priority to be popular. It's a it's a popularity to be and make and do the right decisions. And I hope you do that. Thank you. I apologize for being a little bit late. Is there a match on this? This is a $45,000 grant. Yeah, it's actually a 25% match. I was thinking of 20% of the revolving loan fronts, but it's 25% match in front of you. Yeah, there should be a hand out there. Okay, thank you. I see it here. Yeah, I just want any other rest of the public interested in speaking at this time? Yeah, go ahead. I was just curious about, you know, does this opportunity come up? I'm John Boyer. And what I'm wondering about is does this is an opportunity that's come up in terms of being able to apply to this grant specifically? Yep. Is it an opportunity? Yeah, in other words, you know, like as other issues and concerns get expressed, there sits this opportunity to look at this one thing that doesn't necessarily address how maybe the city is working with sidewalks or other things. Is that right? There are a number of different grants out there in the community, in the state, and in the federal world. And they typically go on scheduled rounds. So the twice a year, three times a year, four times a year. You might have an opportunity to apply for something. This particular one, they have four different times of the year that you can apply for these funds. It is a competitive application. You know, they can be applied for in the future, but you never know if it's going to be timely or not with other applications that are out there. As far as sidewalks go, this is not a sidewalk or transportation related grant. There's other ones for that. There's just about a grant for everything you can think about there. But this one is for really community type issues and the focus is on serving low to moderate income individuals. Not all of them, but a percentage of them. If the town was successful in getting this grant moving forward, does it diminish the town's capacity to continue to work with these other issues of transportation and so forth? In fact, we have transportation grants, another sidewalk grant, up towards the intersection with Blush Elstow Street and Route 100. You've got a planning grant up there. We've got other grants, so it does not diminish that. Does the community stand to benefit from the process of the feasibility study, even if it does not congeal a actual brick and mortar building? Yes, it's huge because if down the road, if it doesn't turn out into anything, we can't afford it. It's not going to work. There's not a leader for it. We don't want a higher additional staff. There is a plan in place. It's a feasibility study that results in a basis for going forward. So, five years down the road, 10 years down the road, assuming this building is paid for or other things are paid for and other opportunities come up, there may be large grants out there that sometimes come available, and you can say, hey, we've already, we're going to dust it off. This is what we've got as a basis. We'd like to then update it and go from there, if the time is right. So, it's something that's documentation that gets you one step further in a direction, whether that direction is to go forward or that direction is to not go forward. And it also is learning as well. I mean, so don't you learn about maybe some of those other opportunities that may be out there or better utilization of spaces that exist for the groups interested? Yep, absolutely. Or even bringing the relationships of those entities closer together, even if it doesn't. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so. Yeah. Absolutely. I'll just add, we've done feasibility studies like this for the railroad station, which is now owned and partially operated by Revolising Waterbury and along with Currie Green Mountain. So, there are examples, the Stipson Graves building was funded in large part by Community Development Block Grant, where the senior center currently is. So, over the years, over the 25 years I've been here, we've done numerous feasibility studies and it doesn't mean that the municipality takes on those projects. They're often ones that we may initiate and other organizations help out. Sometimes we do, in all honesty. Sometimes it's oriented towards business development such as with Currie Green Mountain, but it definitely is about partnerships and trying to build capacity in the community, not just municipal capacity, but other capacity. That actually covered what I was looking for. You know, we heard from Deb a few months ago, not very long ago, the recreation director about how the successful and the rec programs have been and how they've grown in the last couple of years since she's been there. It's not very long, but I mean, the question that we had was, you know, can we grow them anymore with the capacity of the facilities that we have, the pool and they're trying to make do with using other locations for kids programs in the summer. And she said, no, we're really maxed out. The only way you can really grow these programs is to get more space, a more appropriate facility. We're kind of making do with a lot of bits and pieces. In doing well, we're lucky to have the pool, you know, for all of its problems. It's an aging facility. It's terrific. It's really the center of recreation in the summertime. So we're maxed out and we are like a town that has a growing elementary school population where all the other ones around are shrinking. So this is a town with young parents, young children, young families, and people are very recreation minded in our population. So I think I understand what you're saying about the concerns. And I appreciate the point about that this study could be a way to point to some kind of solution or some feasibility of bringing other people together that it's not run by the town. Maybe there's some other entity that would step forward or could be formed by interest groups. Who knows what that is, but... I think that given what we heard from Deb, I think we need this study. Because I think we need these programs and they can't just stay static for kids, I think. Yeah, in referencing that same, I think, meeting that Deb was here for, the question was, is there a model that doesn't have the costs without the income that we're currently seeing was something like the pool where the pool is very much in the red and if that was a 365 day facility that didn't have the cost to turn it on and off, is there a model that once you do the upfront investment, you actually save over where we are currently. So that's something the study could hopefully tell us. I also have concerns that when we don't have enough space for summer recreation programs for kids and the families that don't get into those programs, what kind of costs they see for childcare, and are we currently providing when you get into the program, a very affordable childcare option in the summer. So I would like to understand something like that in this as well. So I mean, for me, the small investment for education and understanding what this could look like and how it would look from a P&L perspective, I think, is an important education process. So maybe I could just interject. I think once we get through the public looking for... Oh, we have some more comments. I was just going to talk about the resolution, but go ahead. My name is Whitney. I'm a resident and a small business owner. I'm here with three of our 12 steering committee members that are trying to get a collaborative space in town to help people meet, learn new skills, and to make things. It's not necessarily an arts center. I just want to clarify that, but people can make art there if they want. I just want to ask the committee if they could add some points into the feasibility study, because we do definitely support this, that was directly related to creating space for making things in, because that is definitely a multi-generational support function. We've done a lot of work in the three years that we've been trying to get this off the ground, and we'd certainly share some data that we've collected. We've got over 100 community members that really want to use the space. We're in the conundrum of finding the space. That's what we're missing. We're eager to help support this group as much as we'll just want to let you know that and ask if you could add a component in to talk about it. I want to get language to put in here, because instead of making things, absolutely. We can meet later about that too. Is it clear that this study could include adaptive reuse of existing buildings? Sure. It's part of it, to look at spaces on where it might be feasible options. Yes, Steve started to talk about resolution. I handed that resolution form to you, Chris, in advance, and should you decide to go forward as a board, a resolution would need to be approved and signed and bill would sign it. I want to hear from many of the other board members, and then I'll speak there briefly if we could. You're all set? So I'm going to be the bad guy, I guess, tonight. Make it a habit of that, lately. We're talking about feasibility studies and what not. Carol brought up earlier, and Karen both, the issues, and I think the board all knows from our budget go around this year of the things that we're going to be faced with coming down next few years here in front of us. I'd like to see the feasibility study on how we're going to pay for the millions, and I mean millions of dollars behind on infrastructure costs that we are currently at. If we throw the ambulance service in with this, the police department in with this, 51 South Main Street, I'll just go over them again. Equipment replacements that are part of our CIP that we put into every year, at some point our pool is going to need some bend needing, and eventually is going to come to fruition that it's going to need some major replacement or reconstructive process. It seems, I understand that this is a feasibility study. But my fear is that it's going to end up in the lap of the taxpayers. Now, if there was some way that we could put an amendment to this contract that would take the responsibility of the municipality, the taxpayers, putting the bill on this thing if it comes to fruition, then I would sign it wholeheartedly. But at this time, I just, I can't see how with everything we've got coming, I'm in fear that it's going to get thrown in our laps. And I don't understand how anybody could, we can't continue to just walk away from the responsibilities that we have in paying for them to take on something else. And I understand, Barb, it's a feasibility study. My concern is just opening that door. And what's going to happen? I mean, I'd like to have more information as to how, and probably that's part of the study, how it's going to get paid for outside of taxpayers' dollars. You know, I have these facilities for the things I do, and I pay dearly in taxes for them every year to the town of Waterbury. And I just wish there was an ability for, you know, maybe all these people that you're talking about to get together and pool the money to the table and say, we've got this, can you help us in a direction rather than working it the other way around? So unless somebody can guarantee me that the taxpayers of the town of Waterbury won't be on the hook for this, I'm probably not going to sign it. So a couple of things. In the grant application, it would not be appropriate because nobody's asking the taxpayers to pay anything. It's just a feasibility study where it would be appropriate to include something like that would be in the RFP that will go to out, will put requests for proposals out to firms that can do a feasibility study. And in that feasibility study requirement and the request for proposals put in there that this will not, whatever comes out of this, will not involve any taxpayer dollars, municipal taxpayer dollars. That would be the place to put it. And if it comes out at the end of the feasibility study that this can't be done without taxpayer dollars, it's the end of the feasibility study. If it comes out and says it can be done without taxpayer dollars, but you'd have to do a big capital campaign, like the library did, and they contributed over a million dollars to this building, a capital campaign, other grant funding out there, other opportunities, then potentially this would move forward. But that would be the place to put that language in that request for proposals to be specific, that it not include taxpayer dollars. All right. Well, having said that, and I'm going to ask the public that's here tonight, are you comfortable with that being said that those conditions get put in at that time? Like I said, I'm not really totally opposed to this. I do worry that it is opening the door and it seems like once the study gets done, then the train is on the tracks and headed out the station. But I can appreciate that. In reality, it's a study to see if it's possible and see what the possibilities are. And there's a lot that could be gained from it. I do have a little concern about saying there are no taxpayer dollars involved because there are. We have Steve's time and we pay for his time. We have Barb's time. We pay. I don't know about this community grant thing. I mean, that is it is taxpayer dollars money from the federal government. Yeah, so it's federal money. So none of us paying federal taxes. So I guess we're okay with that, right? So so I would just like the record to be corrected as we talk about this to not say there's no taxpayer dollars involved. That bothers me. I'll have to work on some creative language for that. I'm basically looking for a no increase in municipal tax rate to go towards this thing. But that's my big concern. I'm a member of the public too. And I'm not. I understand and I hear what you're saying. I think that you should either allow the feasibility study to go forward and let the chips fall where they may and get as much information as you can, as opposed to restricting the information. Because ultimately, none of these projects, including this building and the fire station is done without the public's approval. And, you know, we had a hit with the tropical storm in our tax rate went up. But for the last three years, we've kept the tax rate level. We're paying for this building. We're paying for the fire stations. We're paying for the wreck director that we've added. So I think to to for this board to say to the public, well, we're only going to consider things that we're not going to have to bring to you is really not fair to the public's process. The public gets to decide how much they want to pay in taxes. And, you know, your concerns, Chris, are reasonable. And, you know, back long before you were on the board, we had a lot of discussions about the fact that our society is pluralistic. And some people like want to spend every cent that they have on the road system. Other people want to spend a lot of money on a library. Other people want to spend a lot of money on recreation. And we have to balance and and cobble something together that we all ultimately can support. I think it's unlikely that such a project could happen without the town being involved. And given what I know about the police and a lot of the infrastructure things, it would be a big hill to climb. But I don't think there's any harm in giving the public information so that they can use their brains and decide, well, this is important to me. And that isn't. And I think it's more important for the community to have this. And that's not as important. And they vote with their heads in their their pocketbooks. But but saying to we're going to go ahead with a feasibility study and then take something off the table before we even do it. I think that's very short sighted. Well, to your point about, you know, people's priorities, some people want to put money into this, some people want to put money into that or put money into roads. I don't want to put money into roads, but our roads are at the point where they're just total disrepair. And you know as well as I do. They're not total disrepair, Chris. There's we have we've had this discussion before total disrepair. Not close to total disrepair. All right, I think I've heard enough of the discussion going around here. It sounds like none of this money is stealing money from anything else. It's a little use pot that has very limited utilization. This is an appropriate use for it. The match to your point with regard to the staff time is long as you are comfortable that that amount of staff time is manageable given the current workload. I would make the motion that we approve the municipal manager to sign the application resolution for the feasibility study. And the rest of the select board would sign it too. Except for the the time that staff will have to put into it. If they put the time in it, that's one thing. As long as you ain't spending money for something that we don't need yet. I don't disagree with that. Okay motion been made. Is there a second? Second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Aye. Thank you. Could I get you to pass the resolution to those? I don't know. It passes so I would assume all five of you would sign it or just Chris not sign it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. So then now you close out the public hearing. Okay. This portion of it of the meeting. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. So close out the public hearing and I'll to order the select board meeting for Monday, April 2nd, 2018. 738. First thing on the agenda is to approve the agenda. If everybody has looked through it and is in agreement with what's there, I take a motion to approve it please. I'll make the motion to approve the agenda as presented. I'll second. Okay. Motion's been made and seconded to approve the agenda. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Consent agenda consists of minutes of March 19th meeting, liquor license for Butler street pizza, craft beer, cellar, old stagecoach in, outside consumption permits for cold hollow cider mill, Thatcher hill, LLC, and country club of Vermont. Oh, it's just for the old stagecoach. Okay. That wasn't clear on that. Okay. So with that clarification, somebody make a motion to approve the consent agenda. I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda. I'll second that. Motion's been made and seconded. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Joint business, public. I'll call the meeting of the Watery Village Trustees to order for Monday, April 2nd, 2018. Now, public doesn't look like anybody interested in speaking yet. Consider 708. We're well past that. Consider the adoption of local energy operations plan. Emergency. Okay. Sorry about that. Emergency. Yeah. Okay. So this is my other hat, emergency management. Every year, there is an update of the local emergency operations plan that goes on file with the state. This has important phone numbers in here for the first person to contact in a community. Bill had been listed as number one. Bill Woodruff had been listed as number two. We had an occasion with potential flooding. I reversed the numbers. So Bill Woodruff, who was the official local emergency management director, gets called first in the event of an emergency. Even though I took the action. Even though you did take action, I didn't send pictures. I was impressed. Ice gym. So anyway, what happens is this goes on file with the state. If a disaster or some kind of an emergency situation occurs, it means that the town is eligible for a share for the emergency relief assistance funding. If you don't have a local emergency management plan in place, you get a smaller share of that funding. It also means that you're eligible for a number of other grants that may come down the road like the generator grant, which is being considered now. So with that, I think everybody received a copy of the local emergency management plan dated 2018 with some updates. I found out today on one of the ones that listed three mobile home parks. Bill Woodruff informed me that the mobile home park that's up off of high street area, most of the homes, if not all, are out of there now. So I made a notation on my copy here that that is closed or almost closed. So there are only two mobile home parks. The school information's been updated. We now only, it used to be Bridget Goodnow and Stephanie Hudak. Stephanie's gone, so just updates. So with that, if you, it's a town and village emergency operations plan, and it would need to be approved independently or by both boards. I just had one other little update. On page five, you did reference the village police. So you might want to do that. And I'm sorry, I overlooked that. And on page six, you talked about law enforcement, so that was okay. But and then you had state police referenced periodically. So that was all appropriate. Oh, in the narrative. Yep. Okay. I will clarify that. Thank you. So is it inclusive town and village under one contract or they have to be separate? It's one plan, but both adopted. So we just need to make separate motions. For now. So next year, one, the next one. Yeah. Right. On behalf of the select board, I'll move to adopt the local emergency operations plan with the edits as noted during this discussion. I'll second. Further discussion. Hearing none, all those in favor of the local emergency operations plan, please say aye. Aye. I'll make a similar motion on behalf of the village. I'll second. Motion's been made and seconded to adopt the emergency operations plan for the town and village of Waterbury. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Pass it. Thank you very much. Okay. Next thing on the list, consider authorization to borrow in anticipation of taxes. Yeah. This is just a pro former request. Maybe a little bit of new information from that. The village and town both are on a calendar fiscal year and our major source of revenue firing away is property taxes, which we're not able to send bills until July and we don't collect until August and November. So the cash flow is very heavily weighted to the end of the year. We get quarterly payments annual quarterly payments from the state for aid to highways, but in the fact that the total is only about $110,000 a year, it's, you know, not even $30,000 a quarter and we have to pay bills all the way through the year. In the old days, we used to typically borrow around this time of year upwards of a million dollars from the bank. We would borrow say at 2% and then we could turn around and put the money back into the bank at 2.5% and would earn a little bit of float for a while and that quarter of a percent or a half of a percent would reduce our interest expense. You couldn't ever make money doing it, but you'd be able to reduce your interest expense. We're in a very different situation now, both in the town of the village, the town, mainly because we put aside so much money into our capital improvement funds and we typically don't spend those until later in the year. We have reasonable fund balances in those funds and it just kind of has evolved over the past several years that we typically have been starting the year with close to a million dollars in the bank. This year, we were actually further ahead than normal in terms of our cash at the beginning of the year because many accountants advised their clients to prepay their taxes because of the federal tax law change and the restrictions on deductibility going forward. We don't have to borrow anywhere near as often as we used to and in fact when the last time we borrowed from the bank rather than borrow big slug of money and then pay it back at the end of the year and have that big interest expense, we just would negotiate a line of credit and draw down on it when we needed it. Now, the last three years I've recommended to the boards just to pass motions to authorize staff, myself and the treasurer to borrow money inter municipally so the village right now has more than a million dollars in its coffers. It's unlikely they're going to be able or need to spend that money. The town is still in the $700,000 range so it's going to be a while before the town really needs any money either but when we do need to borrow, if the occasion presents itself that we have to borrow, my recommendation is to allow the borrowing to happen between the municipalities so if the town has to borrow $50,000, use the village as a line of credit and when we pay the interest which gets paid it stays in the community rather than going to a bank. So I would ask both boards simply to pass a motion allowing borrowing and anticipation of taxes and allowing staff to borrow from one municipality to borrow from the other if that's possible. Your motion would allow me to go to a bank if I had to if for some reason borrowing requirements were so high that the other entity didn't have enough money to lend you but that's very unlikely. I'll make a motion to authorize borrowing and anticipation of taxes as you described. Second. I'll second that. Motion has been made and seconded to allow Bill to borrow and in anticipation of taxes either through the bank or through other sources within our town. All those in favor please say aye. Aye. Waterbury Arts Fest. Wait a minute. Oh, village has to be. I'm sorry. Sorry Skip. We're getting the money from them. Just I move we make some of the motion for the village. Seconded. Seconded. The motion has been made and seconded to authorize the municipal manager to borrow funds and anticipation of the village taxes. Any further discussion? If not, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Motion passes. Okay, I guess I'm just trying to catch up to the clock here and it ain't gonna work so I need to slow down. Karen. I'll be quick. Hi, I'm Karen Nevin from Revitalizing Waterbury and this is my annual request from the select board in the town for the road closure for the Waterbury Arts Fest weekend of July 13th and July 14th. We have been running this event. This is our 17th year. Well, the event 17th year Revitalizing Waterbury is about seven or eight years. We've been running this event. We closed Stow Street and Bidwell Lane and for a great party and arts fest, this is a primary fundraiser for Revitalizing Waterbury. We raised about $20,000 to $25,000 at this event towards our operating dollars and of course the more operating dollars we can raise elsewhere, the more likely I'm going to be able to ask you for less money in the future. Not yet though. A couple of things just to identify from last year. We are learning from we have some growing pains. We have some learning experiences. I just wanted to highlight for you. Last year we had larger numbers than we've ever experienced before. The town experienced some real parking and parking issues that weekend. It wasn't purely our problem. We had lacrosse tournament and traffic just came to a stop going up into Stow but because of that we've identified a few things we want to do including creating some real parking signage. I want to talk work with Dina to put up a day of parking signage, directing people to municipal lots, for example the lots here and telling them to walk down to Stow Street so that we don't have people double parking on Railroad Street, which I know that happened last year where literally it was impassable at one point. Not something I was I'm happy about at all and it was identified to us. We're working on some parking issues to solve that problem we've also identified a number of organizations that run events at the same time trying really sort of getting on the bandwagon of all the people coming into town for the arts and we've created an event partnership with those different organizations. A classic one is Jeremy and Georgia Heirs and their artist designer event. They had 500 people come to Elm Street. We've talked to Georgia and Jeremy and we're talking about okay we need to work together so parking doesn't become a problem on Randall Street and traffic and all those kinds of things so I want you to be aware that we are very very aware of some of the sort of issues that came up during the Arts Fest last year. We, yeah I think that's everything. Do you have any questions? Well I wonder if you considered the elementary school for parking too? We would. I mean we're going to look at all the different kind of the other location that would be ideal would be the Green Mountain coffee lots that are basically empty during the weekend and what I would really love to do is put signs at either end of town as you're getting off the interstate that say Waf parking, Waf parking literally direct them right in here, direct them from different locations to these spots and then signs in the parking lots that say walk three minutes, walk two minutes and tend them out that way. So it means a great deal of signs for 24 hours. We'd probably you know we'd put them up probably around three o'clock or you know midday on Friday take them down at 6 p.m. on Saturday but really work to get people who are coming into town. We saw up two to three thousand people on Friday night and another two to three thousand on Saturday. So with that many of people and cars they've placed this. So outside of the standard permit for what you're asking for the sign issue and I could care less either way because it wouldn't I wouldn't bother me either way but is there a permit issue for I mean how does that get handled? Well you know Karen's idea this is the first that I'm hearing of it I'm sure it's being talked about and we'll have conversations with Dina. I'm not here to say we can do it or should do it or shouldn't do it it's we're going to have to think about it a little bit. We've had discussions here about signage you know off-premise advertising and you know I know it's a one-day event and I'd like to be accommodating as best as possible but if you allow that then when somebody wants to put up the sign for the flea market well it only happens once a week why can't we put our signs out. So the sign issue is is a little bit of a nuanced thing and we'll have to work together to see if there's a way we can make it work. I would say that what I'm saying is we've know that there's a problem and we are actively want to solve it and it's not going to be solved tonight it's going to be solved by me talking to the people and figuring it out but I want you to know that we are very aware that this is a problem we also have a trash problem but I've got that one solved. I wonder if you could put a map on your website too. That's part of it but we do put maps on websites. With parking locations no one pays attention to them they really need it as they're walking into town so and we can hand out maps but they're already parked in this location. Are there any more questions? Somebody would like to make a motion to approve the Waterbury Arts Fest over the dates again Karen? It's July 13th and 14th is for the closure of the streets and actually now that I look at it because I didn't highlight it on my piece we are looking for an extension uh one hour extension for the noise ordinance on Friday night for the party. That didn't you guys ask for one? Not that I again. We've always asked for it you've always given it to us and so it's the same thing it's exactly the same and I'll tell you last year at five of ten they were begging me for two or three more songs and the band knows they un-pulled they pull the plug at ten o'clock and we will not go beyond that it's very very important to me to respect the residents in town. I'm going to recuse myself from the boat. Sounds like a booth. I will make the motion that we approve the request by the Waterbury Arts Fest for street closure and other related incidentals for the time period July 13th and 14th. I'll second that. First O Street in Bidwell Lane. Okay. Any further discussion? Hearing none all those in favor say aye. Aye. Thank you very much and put it on your calendar. This is a question for Bill. If all goes well and the village goes out of existence is the entertainment permit and the decibel does the town have that in place or I don't think so. You'll have to hire a lefty it is a sound device to police it so that's something they would eventually need to adopt that they it's we'll have to see whether they do or not. I guess I would ask the trustees on a preemptive measure to approve this request in case for some reason the Charter Amendment doesn't pass. We should do this now? Yeah I think that just in case that village doesn't really go away on June 30th that you're on record supporting it. You want to do that lefty? Yeah I move we approve the amendment as proposed. We're expressed on July 13th and 14th. Okay I'll second that. The motion has been made seconded to approve Barts Fest as requested for July 13th and 14th. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Good luck. Thank you very much. Because previously all those closures went. Okay let's have a little discussion about the municipal manager's salary adjustment. Okay before you do that exactly let me let me pass this out this is not anything to do with my salary necessarily. Again for Nats benefit this is the time of year that annual raises typically go into effect if there are any for municipal employees. We have a 30 day appeal period for the budget after town meeting that appeal period will be the 6th or 7th this later this week. So salary adjustments typically take place the pay period right after that 30 day period ends and from time to time I present this information to the board I think it'd be important or interesting for you to have it. The state statute is clear that the municipal manager has the hiring authority and the ability to set the compensation for municipal staff. The request on the on the agenda tonight is for my salary adjustment if there's going to be one and I'm just I'm not comfortable setting my own salary. So the staffing and the pay ranges that are on this list are kind of updated for inflation. These are just for most part their salary or wage ranges. There are a couple of positions where we only have one of so even though it's a range there's only one person there. Nobody's actual salary is listed on this page except for mine. There's a couple more here. So as I said the municipal manager's authority to set compensation levels and staffing levels is limited of course by the budget all of this that's on this page is within the budget and there's not significant changes in any one of these particular line items. So with that I'll stop talking and I did Jane you sent me an email earlier today on January 21st when I included a packet in the budget notes I did talk about the fact that that the CPI inflation rate increased 2.1 percent for the period ending 1231 17 and that for the most part that two and a half percent was assumed as a wage increase for for the in in general not an across the board raise as this says there'll be employees that will get little to no raise there'll be a you know a couple that get raises that look high but when you compare where they are on the wage scale with other people in the organization and typically what I've tended to try to do when raises are put into effect do employee evaluations that's we try to make that part of the process every year but I also recognize the fact that the people at the high end of the wage scale if you simply gave an across the board percentage increase you know somebody who makes 25 dollars an hour is going to get a higher raised than somebody who's making 20 dollars an hour even if they're doing the exact same job and you know part of that spread is seniority but over time if you're really doing what you need to do as an employee and you're moving up the the learning curve if you will you know the the the premium between a more seasoned employee and and somebody who's a more of a less experienced person should narrow over time you know so if you're in a position for you know 20 years and then somebody's in a position for two years well there's probably a big difference in your skill sets but if it's 20 years and then the next person is you know 12 years that that gap in learning has changed so I try to usually give a bigger raise to people who are making lower wage rates otherwise they continue to get further apart over time so that's that you can have ask questions tonight about it you can ask questions of me at any time about it and as I think I've expressed in the past you know I'm I'm happy with how I'm being treated personally by the town and the village in terms of my compensation I hope I'm performing satisfactorily at least to the boards you know in the board's opinion I'm not in a position where I was two years ago when I came to the board and said you know I haven't I've had a four cent raise in the last four years and you know I was feeling a little bit neglected I guess I don't feel that way now so this is not intended to be a big demand it's just I have to sign the paperwork to put these put raises into effect and I'd rather not be the one deciding what I'm going to be paid so the five percent you said the range here is from one to five percent contemplated as the five percent contemplated for the employees on the lower end of the pay scale for them there's there's only one or two Jane that would be that high and they're typically younger employees or employees who have been given additional responsibilities I know you mentioned last year that you thought that was important to try to go in that direction because you want to train people you want them to stay obviously you want to keep people right we don't want to have a revolving door and for the most part we are pretty successful in keeping help there's no question I think you know it's a these are good jobs and we have I think competitive pay and we have good benefits and you know so I don't want to make it such that seem such that you know people are just you know demanding pay I'm ready to go down the road but there are other municipalities that we compete with and you know in some of the higher skill levels like water treatment plant sewer treatment plant operators there's demand for those and you know there's we're not the highest on the compensation scale by any stretch the imagination do we normally do it as a percent or a dollar amount you're talking about for me yeah I don't think there's been a normal so you can I think so these were looking at two and a half percent as that would be you know fine about $2,500 clearly I mean ask your make your points and stuff oh no I I had spoken to Bill here a week or so go possibly coming up with some solution to address this for longer than a year so that it something that might benefit him moving forward and and kind of take it off our our list of things to do on a yearly basis but it didn't sound like after researching a little bit of it that there was anything that was going to work well for both the town and for him so at this point we're back to square one and so you're saying skip based on his your current salary that to 2.5 consideration I guess that I would think more along the lines of the inflation rate the inflation rate gets you to 107 989 so it's about 108 2.5 gets to 108 for 12 just about so let's just say difference between 108 and 108 for well that may be so I just read a letter today that state employees had negotiated to try to get 2% and we're told we're getting 1.35% so just for what it's worth they're pushing your back six months for a long time and live with those and lefty and I get social security that doesn't even get the same inflation I think employees are your best asset and things and you need to treat them like they're you know they're really valuable and where would we be without well I think that's across the board in any consideration whether it's municipal or private I have a quick question bill how does your salary work moving forward was it split between the two entities I shouldn't know that but I can't so I'm a for the purpose of payroll I'm a town employee but in the budget there is a there's a transfer from the village to the town so I can't remember exactly it's not just for me so all the office staff in this building except for Bill Woodruff are paid by the town Karen is the tax clerk and she's a utility billing clerk um we help town and village and water and sewer customers and everything else so the village as a whole there's a transfer from the village's general government to the town there's a transfer from the water and sewer to the town and there's a formula in place that we have used it's a little less of a transfer this year because the police department has gone away and it's less administrative work for me to do on on that side of things that was already built in the budget but it's all it's all in the budget so the village people in the village pay a little bit more you know as an individual taxpayer because they're paying the town tax and the village tax so but they don't get it for nothing that's been about 10 years but that's better in fact I believe well the current formula but there's there's been a transfer from the village to the town as at least as long as I've been here for that it's the formula has been tweaked a couple of different times over the years so Jane you stated what now you were interested well I guess I don't want to split hairs but I just I mentioned that maybe a cost of living increase was 2.1 percent maybe skip chatting with some different thoughts on that and mark your point was I was just explaining what that difference really was so it's about a $400 difference between 2.5 and 2.1 yeah it's it's maybe like 450 or something like that my math quick math correctly no I mean between the two options of 2.1 I have to look with that 2.1 is well two on 2232 or something like that or a little something maybe a little less than that and the other ones so talking a little over 2000 and the other ones whatever that difference is almost three I mean I don't think we need to split hairs I'm fine at the 2.5 percent personally I'm still relatively new here but from the work that I've seen bill do over the past year that I've been here as well as understanding the workload demands of this particular position if you were to parse this down to hours worked you might be making minimum wage from 1970 and 1975 I I don't have any objections to the recommendation that the trustees proposed I think the difference between the inflation rate number we were kicking around the other one is is not not worth dallying over I think I'm being able to keep pace with inflation and echo something that skip had mentioned the public sector tends not to be very generous with providing wages and wage increases and certainly over the years that you were foregoing any sort of increase in salary I think it's it's certainly reasonable of us to keep pace with the rate of inflation and recognize the the additional work that you you provide the community so be careful if inflation goes to 10 percent there you go I wouldn't push that on you might be surprised that's why I guess that's why the consideration when I spoke to Bill about possible efforts to maybe jump the gun and provide him something now that would benefit him for a few years to come in anticipation of maybe I mean we're supposedly in a strong economy right now I I beg to differ at times if you want to google in usdeckclock.org it'll surprise the hell out of you what the condition of this country's in but closer to home trying to you know work something out with him that would have been more long term would have would have made me happier but under the circumstances I guess there's no there's no reason to I appreciate your sentiment and I did think about a little bit but in all fairness I mean I don't have an employment agreement I've never had one I'm a old-fashioned traditional municipal manager and you know I serve at the at the will of the board and and you know I certainly wouldn't want to put the town the village in a position of giving me something now and then either I don't live up to it or for whatever reason I end up having to leave so I think this is just an annual right evaluation that's the way the other employees are also so I'll make a motion to prove the 2.5 percent that was discussed I'll second okay okay most students been made to give a little increase for this year of 2.5 percent as recommended and all those in favor say aye hi Christine yeah I move to approve the 2.5 percent raise for the municipal manager the ensuing year I'll second it most has been made in the second to approve a 2.5 percent salary increase for the municipal manager for the ensuing year for the discussion all those in favor say aye no I guess I would just add that Chris's point that if we were gonna do that we probably needed to start before yesterday to kind of work out and I guess I would caution too there you know hopefully if the village goes away there's going to be some changes coming and things that you know could be worked in in the future that we don't necessarily know how they're all gonna shake out there now so yeah well thank you all very much I appreciate it okay still not catching up here but moving forward we have a little discussion on 51 South Main Street Parsons is here tonight I think I may have dropped the ball there last week there when I suggested putting it on the agenda and didn't want to catch you off guard but as we had agreed that the voters at town meeting to include perhaps some more money to the till didn't know if the trustees had had some time to mull that over and maybe discuss it a little bit with mr. Parsons and kind of like to have an update as to whether we're wasting our time or not well the trustees are always happy to talk to you about it and we have had a number of discussions on it of course our village meeting was after your town meeting so by the time we had village meeting we were aware of the the motion and that village meeting you know it we brought it up the the motion as I remember it was 37 five but in order to do that you needed to get a 99 year lease on any parking spaces and in my dealings with you know real estate and things if you have a 99 year lease it amounts to you owning it and you know if we were going to be dealing with 30 or 40 potential parking spaces at 51 and you kicked in your 37 five you had to get a 99 year lease for those parking spaces or a pretty minimal amount that you know we thought that's kind of a non-starter would anybody you know who accepted a you know if we accepted the town's offer of the 37 five out of part of 150 or 200 thousand parcel and you got a 99 year lease that was a really good deal in things and we have since you know I've talked a little bit to Chris Parson who's here and you know we were hoping that kind of if moving forward we're not in a position to say we're ready to what we want to do with the lot at this point anyway we told the village voters that village meeting that we were looking into real costs for removing the hazardous materials that are there which I've done and it's about six thousand dollars we need a couple write-offs to do that we're probably gonna put out an RFP to you know take the building down and fill it in and you know trying to maximize the recyclable of the amount of materials and things at the same time doing it at the least cost and then kind of see where we are in terms of you know maybe adjusted purchase price or something the other thing that is in the back of our mind what's happening to the PD Bank parking lot is it going to continue to be available or not you know Main Street has been put off till next year and we were committed to trying to make sure it was available for you know parking during Main Street reconstruction and it might make a difference if the bank is still available for parking either during daytime or after hours or is that shut off wanting to know kind of what the situation was with that before we maybe reached a decision so we're still weighing those things I don't think it's not our recommendation to take your thirty seven five and and you know go toward the parking Chris is here tonight I mentioned it to him I you know I don't know that he was excited about that and I think long term we were hoping that through the village and negotiating any arrangement that we would get some agreement to get those parking spaces available after hours at no cost to the town or the municipality rather than you know having the town buy it and things another thing that we were looking at was could the lot be subdivided and if the town really wanted spaces and Chris could you know use less than the full lot to do what he wanted to do when there was room for parking could that you know be subdivided and still meet all the zoning permits and if it could see what you know a price you know for that might be if that was something to look at there we got comments at village meeting that they really like the idea of using 51 south main for what had been proposed the multiple uses that Chris had presented to us and have it rebuild for potentially up to 40 parking spaces after hours and things in that they really like the idea of the multiple use I know there has been some people in town that would like the town just to go buy it and use it for parking but there are others that think maybe multiple uses something that's advantageous to so and let me and Natalie can add whatever you want to your thoughts on that or did you get any any information about that subdivision concept only what Steve said was we have to determine what it is that Chris would be actually trying to put in so we know exactly how many parking spaces he would need for whatever project he would have if we wanted to divide it and Chris is here tonight you're welcome to add anything you want to the discussion there you know he expressed an interest that he's still in interest in moving forward as soon as you know possible there and you know we're committed to moving along and you know maybe smaller steps and knowing where we are I think you know we did that parking study and you know they recommended talking getting some arrangements with the potentially TD bank and the Northfield bank I don't think TD bank was really interested in talking to us but I guess I would hope that the select board maybe had a move forward with talking with the Northfield bank about you know after hours parking depths an important piece of space and the sooner that you get some arrangement with them the better we are and that was a recommendation out of the parking space well I think to Karen's point there at town meeting when she said you know 99 year lease I don't believe there was any specifics pertaining to what that meant I mean define define parking it could be any number of things it could be a one hour day parking for 99 years it could be after hours parking for 99 years I don't know that that was specified in the town meetings discussion as to what the 99 years included you know so it would be a 99 year lease that whoever exactly so that's my next it had to be maintained and you couldn't change the use so that's my next point if mr. Parsons was in agreement with that you relinquish the property to him that kind of let you off the hook because then it's his responsibility after that as far as if the negotiations can be made prior to the agreement being settled based on however the 99 year part is constructed if the owner's happy with it I wouldn't see why you guys wouldn't be happy as well but that's just my two cents yeah and I want to follow up too because Chris had called me prior to town meeting to talk about this idea of this amendment to the budget and he has a good point that you know the longer this property sits in the village hands the longer we're not creating income for the grand list and so I think that these opportunities with developers that are listening to kind of the box we're building them into and if they're really considering with those specifics specific to road construction protecting the parking during that time and then the idea of you know having a significant building with a significant tax role but also would have parking usage at specific high peak hours I'm going to feel like that's a pretty pretty good opportunity for us that I would hate to see we lose if we sit too much longer on this property so I think that I was excited to hear Chris bring that up and I thought it was a pretty good argument for why it would make sense from a town to make that investment anticipating that we would see that return in the grand list income from from it being on the tax roll so I hope that you guys are taking that into account as you you think about this and the time that's passing and that kind of stuff yeah so just so you know any other thing and it's it's none of my concern I'm just trying to put this thing together you know ultimately you'll do what you want but I can tell you right now that I had a contractor from Newport come down to Water Bear here the other day because he's going to be building up a place in my subdivision here on the hill and he was suggesting that prices are starting to skyrocket pretty good and he was throwing out some numbers there as to what it was costing him for in his bidding process and one one of the items just off the top of my head he said two by tens have gone from $1.21 a foot to $1.91 a foot or $1.96 a foot so and I'm seeing it everywhere it's so the longer the longer this the economy is headed in that direction any time you have an economy that is doing better prices start to rise and inflation starts to take place and from a feasibility standpoint being in the business that I'm in I know that if the numbers don't work the project just isn't going to move forward so I know I'm not speaking for Chris himself but I think probably he's got his eye on that ball as well and as time goes on it may just ultimately push him out of the running not that that doesn't mean that there isn't more people that may come along later on but again it's more people who may not be interested in in helping the town out with parking so so when the town made their proposal back when we after RFPs it seemed like it just said you were going to use it for parking it really didn't have a vision for the law and anything that we had asked in our RFPs you know what were you going to do with it so I guess is that your talk here seems like you've changed your mind it's not just parking or no we I think the town hasn't changed their mind we would have you know I was encouraged at town meeting to make a proposal to authorize more money to for the town to go back to the drawing board on this but that wasn't possible based on the laws in place the fact that it wasn't worn that's a significant amount of money so that got kicked to the side and I think at this point I won't speak for the rest of the board but my opinion a project he's proposing is quite attractive to the town and it supplies the town with possibly with ample parking or or at least a significant amount of parking that we don't otherwise have are you pursuing any other options in case this doesn't pay an hour well no it's actually your property to deal with so our earlier discussion and apologies if there was misunderstanding with that the short term was always the agreement about getting through the construction season but the longer vision was to encourage some sort of development there but also trying to reserve the ability to have some level of parking there chris's proposal actually hit those marks and and look great unfortunately we don't have have any say in that matter I think that's what prompted chris to try to encourage that sort of discussion with the with the additional funding um I and I'm not sure how the rest of the board feels my my own perspective is I felt as though that 99 year lease piece was an anchor around the the whole process so given that if you can negotiate with the parameters that to come up with something worthwhile I think as a as a body we're still willing to support that concept yeah I think that's kind of the direction where we were still you know pursuing the you know the offer of the 120 or 125 was less than where you know we were and you know some of the unknowns there you know taking down the building that main street now has kind of stretched out and you know just how many spaces chris has talked about the length of time to get his plans and permits too you're you know and I think back to your question have we changed our position I don't think we necessarily have but we're not in the business of being a landlord so I think we felt like we were a baxter against the wall a little bit to try to get an offer in for the RFP and we presented the offer based on what we felt we could do as a town to make that offer but if if I have the two scenarios put in front of me and I put my business hat on I think the scenario that there's an opportunity to capture parking spaces but also have the income from property tax of a significant building versus us buying and trying to build that parking lot out of town money and then maintaining that parking lot etc etc I think that the scenario of the public-private partnership is a much better scenario that makes a lot more sense for not only I would say the town but also I would hope you would see that as well you would see more income from the utility district I just think that there's there's better opportunity there I do agree that the 99 year thing really did throw a wrench in it you know what we could do moving forward I guess we could call a special meeting to discuss it further we could call a special meeting to see if we could then re propose that we buy it as a town and then put it back out to RFP include Chris's offer but I would hate to see us have to do that but I don't know I guess it's there's a lot of moving parts in that scenario I appreciate what you just said and I agree with what you said very much about if you put the two things side by side with the offer that we made quickly kind of at the you know December, early January, whatever that deadline was and we were just doing that because we wanted to we didn't want to have we wanted to preserve the parking we wanted some offer to be players in this somehow if we needed to be if you got especially if you got no other offers and instead you got this proposal which to me it had all the as someone said it hit all the all the marks and it was an attractive building that looked like it could be multi-use and give the parking to and was willing to be this partnership where you could phase it in and still get through the main street reconstruction so you know the monkey wrench at the town meeting was to somebody proposed put in the 99 year on there and now we're going to start with that I don't know if you could negotiate this without our 37,500 so you don't feel encumbered I can certainly understand you doing that I think I think it'd be a shame to I'm a proponent of I hope you can work something out because I think this looks like a great proposal and I'd like to see it happen sooner rather than later because I think the longer time goes on other things can come in the way to mess it up and maybe you know as lefty said I think you said something you talked to Steve about using trying to get the figures I think from I mean do you have a sense of what the use of the building might be that you could figure out parking and work something out Chris's proposal the square footage we would have to figure out just how many parking spaces he would have to have reserve for the permitting process and the rest of them would be open to negotiate that's the thing so just to let you know the reason I came up with the number that I did was based on the fact that I assumed I guess the cost of tearing down the building that you people would perhaps have to incur and the reason I decided to ask the voters for that additional money was because of the time restraints that I felt based on the economy and the inflation and interest rates and all that that accumulatively over time you know makes these projects less possible that to ultimately perhaps get you at the number that you would be at by the time you got done tearing down that and get him get his foot in the door at perhaps a quicker time period would make both parties happy that was the whole premise of the the reason I came up with a number I did in the philosophy behind it was to expedite the project and get it moving so the quicker it's in place the more beneficial it is to everybody but with with the parking park a rush has so many required for the number of seats and how many there are different office personnel so you'd have to come up with a general total before you would have any way to go forward to the parking right so I don't I don't necessarily think from my opinion that you know the negotiation process should be thrown out the door on this because I think there's a few variables that can be put into this thing to to make both parties happy meaning you guys and them because we're just all we're doing is adding a bit of financial effort here to try to make everybody happy so that's it in a nutshell I guess consider did we say how many parking spaces we wanted to have for 99 years no that was not in the amendment again it's definition you know one really sweet parking space one one small parking space with a nice sign I don't think the board I don't think the select board is going to jump all over that one but probably can I just couldn't remember if it was prescriptive or not the better part would be that the space is landlocked but it's yours for 99 years so Chris do you have anything you'd like to say at all in reference to the conversation he could go to the mic to come up with some sort of language you know about the parking that everybody was happy with because you know obviously from the outset that was you know one of our points was we understood that was a huge deal and that was you know one of the you know major concessions that we were you know wanted to make is that we were you know more than willing to put something together that everybody was happy with as far as the parking was concerned and you know the more that I get into this the more that I see that that's going to be easy to do I was talking to a guy today who was interested in having about two thousand square feet of office space in there you know and he said we really only need you know three or four parking spots until five o'clock in the evening you know so I mean that's a big chunk of the building that doesn't really require much and those people are out of there at five o'clock you know so I think the parking is going to be you know it'll be loose there'll be a lot available and I'm sure that we can put something together and writing that everybody would be comfortable with and happy about with 99 years somewhere so in all fairness yeah I think the board would agree that if we were to sit down and have a discussion about this that we would also take into consideration possible future changing and changes in use or you know any of those number of things there that we wouldn't want to gridlock you into you know a situation where you come up like lefty says you know you'd want the ample and being aware too anything the village says is not restricted by the 99 years deals with them if we don't accept their money right but if we accept their money then that is 99 years and whatever the terms are becomes part of the purchase and sale I mean yeah I guess and back to my point there if you relink the show ownership of it then you know and new new owners totally happy with that I think I'm here to make it try to work it's up you know that's up to you how many parking spaces are you thinking I think you know currently is this initial plan has been laid out I think there's 52 you know total and as the current plan is laid out you know we probably would reserve 12 of those you know every day but the remainder of those could kind of be in the public pool you know for people to use just you know as we're doing with the bank right now so it'd be you know a good portion of the 52 spaces basically that were kind of you know open to everybody so and there would be people using the building during the daytime you know like we were saying and you know obviously the people that show up at seven o'clock in the morning or eight o'clock to go to work in there whatever you know they might be doing they're obviously going to have a empty parking lot to choose from they'll be taken care of you know whatever spots are left over during the day you know people can kind of you know avail themselves up and then you know five o'clock at night when everybody leaves then it kind of opens up again you know so so based on what you've heard here tonight there's not a huge deal breakers standing in front of you as far as you're concerned uh no not really I mean I just you know the the 99 year thing you know like Skip was saying that's you know almost as if ownership is with somebody else of you know that chunk and I don't know how that plays out with they would buy it every other terms yeah I mean how many spaces is that compared to TD or any you know the lot out behind Mansfield I mean what are we talking about the size here I think the Mansfield is about 40 spaces back there and the TD bank they said they had I think more spaces than if you actually go over there and look I think they included almost a few parked through the entire like drive-through I think it was like 12 12.2 about like 35 spaces I would say around there and I have heard that that might be monetized in the near future but not going away but monetized so there's any other comments or questions okay that's in your hands guys thanks for your cheerleaders thank you for coming tonight thank you see one other journal I'll go through a journal second it oh second it 845 840 4 don't know we're off that's okay we enjoyed having you skip anytime yeah hindsight I wish I would have fought that a moment okay select board business town meeting debriefing from mr. Kilgore sure I have a feeling that perhaps there's been a lot said about town meeting and I just wanted to let you know what some of my thoughts were I've thought a lot about town meeting since town meeting day I've read a lot talked to a number of folks and I guess probably one conclusion that I think I feel comfortable in articulating is I think to the extent that there was criticism about the kind of conversation and debate that happened at the meeting I'm probably as responsible for as anyone else because philosophically I tend to let people speak and I don't interrupt I have always thought that if if something is inappropriate and if you interrupt and mention that something is inappropriate you can you can almost do more damage to calling attention to it than just by letting it go and so as I said I tend to be quite liberal in letting folks talk and I know at one point during the debate on the on the motion to limit debate on the gun resolution Carla looked over at me and Carla said to me you know they're talking about the merits of the motion and I said I know that but I think that people want to talk about it and at that point in time I was quite frankly pretty confident that the motion to sustain the position of the moderator would carry and I felt that it was more important not to alienate the folks that didn't show up at the meeting than it was to alienate the folks that were there so that was probably a little more calculating than I tend to than I tend to be as far as letting people speak so those are those are the thoughts that I have about what happened and I think perhaps I need to change my style as moderator. A lot of people don't understand that unlike radio engineers a moderator does not have a button that can bleep people because like it or not town meetings are live like theater theater is live and one of the things that makes live theater so enjoyable is that it is live and anything can happen and anything did happen at town meeting this year and in part I take the blame for that and so my conclusion is that at subsequent meetings I need to be less tolerant about letting people speak. Now why is that in the end it was wasn't sustained pardon me the in the end about that discussion about the gun policy or gun letter it wasn't sustained or it was it was that's that's the big confusion I think the decision out of that meeting the decision of the moderator was that the resolution was out of order and that that's right so that's why I say that's what past I say and and the result was was that there could not be a vote on the resolution which there was and there was no vote on the resolution so in that regard the decision of the moderator was sustained because I ruled that the resolution was out of order but allowing the I think this is what I kind of struggled with is I understood that the only thing we really should be arguing are the merits of the motion but we got into arguing guns I know I know and I do agree that a lot of people wanted to talk but my fear was continuing to allow the back and forth on guns confused the audience that what we're really talking about is the merits of the motion and you can even see it in the paper asking because now that it was added to the following select board meeting and discussed those discussions didn't really happen as much that night in the select board meeting as in town meeting and then the feeling of the community that no we voted that down in town meeting but we didn't really vote it down in town meeting we voted that we sustained your decision that's right right you're absolutely right that's a that's a confusing thing I think to a lot of people and I don't know if we would it would be at people would be as confused if people would have been halted from conversation on guns because really we should have been discussing the merits of the motion I don't disagree with you I don't disagree at all but I do believe that when it came time to vote the way it was explained it was crystal clear as to what people were voting on I'm wondering yeah and I I do I did feel that way but I'm just wondering then it's maybe it's this telephone game in the community of what was really decided and and and so that that goes into part that goes part of my reasoning why I think if I get elected as moderator at subsequent meetings and because I'm the moderator for sounds like you may have another meeting this year who knows is that I need to be a lot more strict about what people can say and when um I I understand where you're coming from with that I think uh from what I saw and heard I think there was confusion over what sustain meant um sustain has a very specific meaning and I think it it got a little garbled that being said um the crowd was small enough and respectful enough and you gave everybody the opportunity to have their say in the discussion and I thought that was valuable I I do think um there was the opportunity for some folks to be confused over it because it did wander off track but I thought it was a good opportunity for those folks to weigh in on the issue and we heard a pretty good cross-section of of discussion there so I I actually uh want to thank you for providing that opportunity for that crowd um if you had closed off uh the conversations I think uh your observation from earlier in that that would um send a chill through the crowd and it would also not resolve the the issue that needed to be discussed at that point so I think it uh like with any work of art the more you refine it the better it looks um I I don't disagree with the way you handle that um going forward if you feel it's more appropriate to tighten that up um that's fine but don't feel as though uh it was an egregious mistake because I don't think it was and I'm not trying to articulate that but I think the my one comment would be is I didn't speak because I felt like we should only be discussing the merit of the motion and I would have and I'm wondering if that was an opportunity to explain again the merit of the motion and then ask I don't know if it's appropriate to ask the select board to consider it or we say we will put it on the next select board meeting I think that there was I've heard comments of well how dare the select board bring it up again but to me it was this was out of order this is obviously an important thing to discuss in the community let's put it on the next agenda but that wasn't discussed in the town meeting at all of putting it on the agenda at the subsequent meeting so to me that's where I felt like I shouldn't speak in my position on what was asked because we should only be speaking to the merit of the motion I'd like to ask you a question if that referendum had been brought to the select board put on the agenda and brought in front of the select board as timely as the referendum signing that you guys signed to send to the state house how many people do you suppose would have shown up to that meeting is I mean it was clear to me that the public was interested in having more conversation about this whole thing at a maybe perhaps a much better warned meeting than being pulled out of the back pocket of someone at the 11th hour just basically took everybody off guard that's why I signed no on that referendum because in my opinion the public was clear about wanting another stab at this thing even though the the question was called out of order and that's why in my opinion they wanted another crack at this thing in a professional hearing that was done properly and they didn't get that so but I agree with mark I mean I think you handled it well in my opinion and yeah I mean things kind of got a little bit sidetracked there for a bit but I think you gave reasonable time for people to express some of their opinion and it was clear to me that they wanted to have a more solid conversation about this with more people informed well just so that it's clear that wasn't the only thing that happened at the meeting that was not exactly appropriate okay let me just say one thing about the the topic I would agree with mark that I mean in a way I think it was okay I don't think it was just the people who didn't understand the merits of the motion I think in a way they ignored them because they wanted to talk about the they wanted to talk about it and it was a topic it had just it was two weeks after you know the parkland shooting a little more than two weeks and I just think people have felt as it was mentioned they wanted to express themselves well there was there was a lot that was going on a lot was going on and I made the and it was a pretty conscious decision on my part to let them speak and I probably shouldn't have possibly shouldn't have but I did but I did but in the end if it was sustained and I guess I was getting a little confused with the words myself so that um you think that it was wrong because in the end it was sustained anyway no no no I guess what was what was sort of going through my mind was I am a huge supporter of town meeting and some of the best debate we've had at town meeting was the special town meeting we had and then while it was a little bit more rowdy the meeting that we had when the first item on the warning was what to do about the police department I think we had four or five hundred people at the meeting and there was discussion and the people talked about an issue that was important to them and they did so in a reasonably good manner um the special town meeting we had in January was a textbook case in talking about issues and only issues and I thought the folks that were there there are maybe 200 people at that meeting were and and I think I said this to a number of people those were one of the best town meetings I've attended because of the because of the level of debate and because I'm a firm believer in town meeting I do not believe in the philosophy that someone said at the meeting well they weren't here and that's too bad they should have stayed for the entire meeting I don't believe in that because it wasn't warned that we were going to discuss it and there would I think if you had warned that as the last item on the ballot you'd have had 700 people at the meeting and you would have had instead of 35 to 40 people talking you'd have had 300 people talking I see a point and so I'm concerned about town meeting I don't want people to say well look what they talked about and we didn't even know about it so I was more concerned about letting making sure that that resolution was not binding on the select board a lot of people came up to me and said thank you I'm glad you support no gun regulation and I never said how I felt and I'm still not going to say how I feel because I don't believe that that's the role of moderator I'm a firm believer that moderators don't have a right to choose well to that they have to be impartial we probably should have had another meeting to that point to that point in your point if we'd had another official meeting on that particular item and it was the majority ruled that they were in favor of that rest of referendum I would have signed it in the heartbeat but because we'd ever had that opportunity I couldn't I couldn't go along with it well that's what you know everybody has their individual ideas on the way things work and at the time mine was I think it's more important that a small group of people I hate to use this expression but I think this is what would have happened I don't think it was appropriate when we had a couple hundred people that started off at the meeting for less than a quarter of the meeting to impose their will on the town and I don't care which way they were going and I don't care what the issue is and but I think what might be helpful in the future is if a couple of weeks before the deadline for petitions to be filed with the select board for consideration of warning items that you put something in the front page forum and let people know that because maybe I mean granted that date was predated predated the parkland shooting by probably close to a month but I think there are lots of items that people want to bring up and under the I think it's the south burlington decision it's it's entirely within the province of the folks that want to see items on the ballot if the select board agrees with them to put it on the ballot I'm sorry not ballot to put it on the warning of things warned but I guess my question is is we as a select board have to make the decision on what is important enough to call a special meeting to discuss right and the resolution was warned in the last meeting it was on the agenda warned and no one showed up so my question is is we almost call attention we have to make the decision on any topic we we make decisions for the town on a constant basis and what gets a special meeting and what doesn't and I don't I mean I think that if you yeah I mean I guess that's a question we sit here as a jury of our peers to make a decision for not only ourselves but hopefully for what we believe is the correct decision for the town and that's why I was hoping for more attendance in the last meeting for more discussion but no one did show up and it was it was to me a resolution that wasn't asking for much in specifics but just showing that we we recognize that this event happened we certain of us certain members of the select board believe that it is important that Montpelier take it seriously and work on solutions so I don't know you know in terms of timing I think it was the right timing to get something down to Montpelier obviously with the timing of what's happening Montpelier I think it was right I don't know should we have called a special meeting sure I think people would have shown up and we would have discussed it for a long time but I don't think I particularly would have ensuade from how the amendment was stated to do anything differently with it well bear in mind I'm not making any comment whatsoever about what you did at that select board meeting sure no I understand I guess I'm not just necessarily talking about I mean you're looking at me as you're saying this my comments go exclusively to what happened at the town meeting that's all that's all I'm talking about but to mark to your point Mark I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to the question that you posed I you know there'll be some who debate but I think the statements that were made at the select board meeting you're elected by the people of this community and you're elected to use your judgment you're elected to pass public policies or resolutions that you think are beneficial to the community and I think the I think the legislature is capable of understanding the difference between a resolution of the select board when you say we the select board of the town of Waterbury you know there's weight behind that I think if you had the exact same resolution that that you approved and that if it was say it was disapproved by the town meeting I think the legislature would be able to put weight in that to say well we see how the public as a whole feels and we don't have a select one feel so I don't think there was anything wrong with the select board taking the issue and I think that it's impractical to have every question that comes before the public with regard to public policy to have to go to a town meeting that's why there's there's typically one town meeting a year and then there's a provision for special town meetings and I think the legislature entrusts the select board to decide this rises to the level that we think we need a special town meeting for it or you know certainly the public has the the right to petition in special town meeting themselves they can put a petition in anytime so I don't think there was anything wrong with with bringing the issue here and you know there was at least one member of the public here who's who let you know how they how he felt about it and and I you know appreciate Everett's attendance circling back though to to your point about that question and exciting and good town meetings you know I'm not sure any of you are familiar with Frank Bryan who was a professor at UBM he's retired now he co-authored a book 30 years ago and you know he has been a student of town meeting for a long long time and has done a lot of research on it and he sent graduate students out into the field to observe town meetings for years and years and years and has made several statements about it and the one thing that he is consistent about you know he talks about there does seem to be a sweet spot where town meeting works best to the size of the communities and you know my community the size of Burlington or even Essex it's it's not that great but you know when you get smaller it can be very good but the point that he's made often is that town meetings are best when you allow the voters to make real decisions and he in in one sense and I heard him speak a couple of different times he said sometimes you towns who have chosen the manager form of government you've made it too professional and you don't really allow the public as much opportunity to make decisions as you should you said you're a professional manager you're good at budgets and you end up putting everything in the budget so you know we had a budget I forget what the the numbers were you know a big number for the general fund budget a big number for the highway fund budget and then we roll in the next one talks about the capital improvement budgets and it's just a big number that we throw out there and we've had this conversation in the past but one of the things that could be considered is to say well rather than just have one article that says you know here's all the capital improvement projects what we're going to do and they add up to you know 1.5 million dollars maybe you want to take a few of the ones out and have a specific article about a rose or paving and and let the public have some meat to chew on as opposed to just you package everything in such a neat package and you know I I get a lot of personal fulfillment when people do ask questions about the budget but it's a pretty big and complicated document to to really compose a lot of questions and I think we can answer almost all the questions that get answered but maybe we should think about breaking some of it down a little bit and giving the people smaller chunks and they can help us identify what their priorities are as opposed to just saying well your only opportunity is to either make a motion to you know reduce the budget by something because you don't want to spend money for that particular program or well we're going to add money because we want a recreation director or what have you if you split the budget apart a little bit there's some there's some there's some restrictions I mean you can't separate you know the court's been pretty clear your general fund budget is your general fund budget and you know you can't put up the fire department budget as an individual budget and the recreation budget as an individual to budget you've got to put your budget up but when it comes to some of the capital expenditures I think there's an opportunity that you can get more input than we've been having a point so one last comment unless somebody else has got something to say afterwards circling back to your point about the elected officials you know dealing with some of these concerns and questions about what that the public may have I believe for me personally on on this particular one issue that it was such a of such delicate nature that it deserved a bit more due process than what the public were allowed it should have been advertised either in the paper as a special meeting or something other than just so few people look at the agenda that's why we have packed room every Monday night anyway anybody else got any other further comments no I just say I think those what you mentioned is an interesting idea maybe the time to parse that out would be in January doing the budget if there's some or December yeah the budget if you're thinking about breaking up the budget article I'd love to work with you because there are all kinds of different ways that that other communities can do it that passes muster and I'd be more than happy to sit down and show you what some of the other towns again October November kind of discussion probably enjoy having you as moderator thanks it's fun keep coming back thanks try not to step on my time next year okay one other question before we adjourn I've been kind of scratching my head about we had spoken during budget season about issues pertaining to our investment portfolio and whether or not to perhaps skim a little bit more off the top before things change in the market and can you add anything to that right now as to have we lost a fair amount have we gained more are we still doing okay or should we be considering doing something here pretty quiet before you know I wasn't prepared to talk about it tonight nothing is I mean the market went down about 2% today while the Dow Jones went down about 2% today 600 points on $24,000 I mean the 24,000 point average that's out there right now you know I think as you all know the market has been more volatile the the last two months than it has been for a very long time we're still in good shape compared to you know if you look back it's the market has been pretty much going up there's been some fits and starts now you know I do try to look at the portfolio every I keep a close eye on it but I look to you know potentially rebalance in accordance with the investment policy at least a couple times a year try not to you know panic on a particular day where the market goes way up or or maybe you know has it died so I've got really nothing to no specific thing that I'm planning to do based on what's happened in the late I would expect that probably sometime probably in May again to review the investment policies with you it'll be the first chance that Matt gets a chance to even see what that is so okay well I mean my only concern was in where we have our money invested maybe totally I won't say totally different than what the market's been showing its volatility with lately I mean we were at 28 at one point now we're down at 24 and I'm just my thought is whether we should be I hear what you're saying I mean I don't have any better crystal ball than you do I can't sit here today to say the market is going to go down 15 percent or it's going to go up 5 percent we've had a consistent policy and a fairly consistent application of that policy all through the time that we've had an investment portfolio there have been years and the tax stabilization fund is the prime example there have been years where the tax stabilization fund has not performed well enough for us to take anything out of it the next year and you know I don't have the town report with me right now but the fund opened I want to say 1997 or something like that it's probably been five or six years where we haven't been able to take money out of it but over the course of time we've probably taken $250,000 out of that fund and it started at $644,000 and it's worth probably $800,000 now even though we've taken a quarter of a million dollars out over the last 30 years so we'll review it again Chris I think at some point you know there's it's been a long time since then there's been a correction in the market you know a 10 percent decline for a sustained period of time at some point that's going to happen I don't think it's anything that we need to panic about though when the market dropped in 2008 and lost 50 percent you know we lost we lost a lot of money on paper then too but we had put ourselves in a little bit of a defensive position we fared okay and then we wrote it out we didn't panic and sell at the low point you know we let market rebound and we've done okay so I'll look at it I'll report to the board like you say probably in May we can have a discussion about things then okay all right yeah I think I mentioned that that idea of a trailing stop and maybe if that is an option that we could maybe agree that like a 10 percent correction auto goes to cash to stop the risk of a 50 percent downside something like that I don't know if that is an option for us but if those options are available I'd just like to know and maybe we can have a discussion on it yeah I just I didn't know if there was some magical formula there that you could pull out of your hat that would you know my concern was we were going to try to use some of this I thought to help us out there this summer and and with every downturn in the market I don't know how how things are set up as well as you do by any stretch but whether or not we're taking risk of losing losing what we were hoping you know some of what we were hoping to utilize so that's it I mean nope just concern I mean some I mean and and you know that's a reasonable point and maybe maybe that's something that I'll give a little bit of consideration to you know the the money that's in the tax stabilization fund I whatever we decided to move into the general fund will be moved most years if you know if the fund is gained let's say it's gained enough and the formula that we have in place suggests that we can take $50,000 from the fund and and put it into the general fund a lot of years you know I don't make the I don't make the move of the money from the the tax stabilization fund to the general fund until December and you know we didn't need the cash let it stay invested and then at the end of the year you take it out and you know you that way the risk of missing the upside isn't lost now if it goes down well then maybe you've lost an opportunity but typically the way that we've managed the funds we have done okay and I don't see there's any giant risk right now losing a whole lot and you have to remember too and Mark's point is reasonable I can ask about the trailing stock but you know we don't have all of our money right I was going to ask if you knew where I was in fixed fixed income securities that you know unless the bond market or the town itself fails I mean we've lent money to ourselves from that and we're paying interest back to ourselves so I'm not questioning your our typical approach what I'm questioning is issues going on outside of our control this country that are making art you know approximately what that the action you know when you decide to sell there's a 50 50 chance that you sold at the wrong time you know if you sell today and it goes up 15 percent next week well then you don't know when to get back on the market too I guess that is a good question do you know approximately what percentage of that fund plus or minus whatever is is exposed to the just the stock market probably it's less than 50 percent right I missed the I apologize for missing the beginning of the meeting did anyone mention the fire the fire last night I think maybe we should just say something no actually in the butt for let that one go over my head but that was my intent originally you know I give condolences to Rosina in the unfortunate fire that took place at her place actually this was Sunday evening so what I understand I asked my wife there she's been kind of keeping an eye on the on the fundraising efforts here I don't know where the last number was but I have a very sounds like it's at 34,000 right now wow was that seven grand this morning I suspect there'll be more to come so at least people are reaching out and doing what they can and I'd be with her she took a huge loss and I think everybody has that on her on her minds too so all right yes sir just on a quick note on that some people who look here down in the state's which is for the way the sort of Rosina and Kay's properties I sent an email last night they sent an email back and they had gone over and helped the waltzes with days of school buses with kids up to see how Caledon helped et cetera talk to them and uh John and Debbie Thielman the people that lived in particular states he was a firefighter here as well but she said if you can get to Rosina they were thinking about her she's in our prayers and that uh we want you to give each one of them a hug from John and myself so I took admission this morning no it's not a big deal but I did do it and uh big to them I'm sure there was someone the day was there this morning was there last night early on um which had helped a little bit in the initial phase of the fires when she came back up from having Easter dinner got a lot of her neighbors and they had to almost possibly keep her a hell of going into the house which was a good thing yeah a walking construction was there today nothing the rest of the house down and before that happened the firefighters that were there and there were still four trucks there it was I think five firefighters five firefighters stayed there overnight last night and uh it's a very sad thing uh but what we didn't only lose or they didn't only lose the Wallace history but we lost from whatever history too but I think that's the next to the last active fire in the town then break it if I am wrong but there are two more two left two left where is the Davis like I said all you're going to see is that four long that picture on the wall and just because I went up and did what I did just a big deal and all the firefighters are safe and as far as I know it was extremely extremely perfect fire it was huge I saw it from the other side of the valley when I was driving out of it very unfortunate okay so now it's just um I didn't realize he may have not had a town report so on December 31st the fund balance of the youth tax stabilization fund was 935,000 and in equities and bond funds there was 306,000 so about a third of it is in stock market so okay all set that's good to adjourn make a motion I'll second it okay all those in favor of seeing you all right