 Let's get into the big topic of open source, something that we actually have in front of us. This is so awesome. We are an open culture that is actually a big city center. What is that process that they developed, or let's say... How is the Kubernetes ecosystem really doing that? I had my mic muted. Sorry, we are live, right? This is already starting off swimmingly. We are live. Thank you, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Get Off Sky to the Galaxy. Christian Hernandez here, captain, co-captain here, Hillary. How are you, Hillary? Hey, I'm well. How are you? I'm doing well. Another exciting day here in California. Actually, all three of us are in California. We have a special guest today. We have Dave Nielsen from Harness. Looks like he just dropped off. Maybe he's shy. He's a senior director community and developer advocate. He's a director there at Harness. Come to talk about Get Ops on Harness. But before we go there, while we're trying to figure him out... There he is. Before we get started on that, a couple things I want to talk about. I want to talk about ArgoCon. ArgoCon. CFP is still open. So I will put that on chat. CFP is still open on ArgoCon. So this will be in the Bay Area. I don't know if we have the... I'm looking at the... Let's see. We haven't announced where it's going to be. No, not yet. Okay. So I still need to keep hush-hush on that. I'm part of the program committee there. So if you guys are doing anything cool with Argo, want to talk about Argo, be connected with other people there. It will be in Mountain View. So it's actually down the street from where data is out right now. ArgoCon there. Submit to speak, register now. Early bird registering. I believe it's still open. You may have to check the link. And that'll be in September. And also what's coming up, which will be fun. There's going to be a lot of fun is Get OpsCon. We're in the Europe area. Somewhere in Europe. Get OpsCon will be a DayZero event from KubeCon. So it'll be co-located with KubeCon. So if you're in Valencia area, or if you can get to it and you want, and you're going to KubeCon, make sure to join Get OpsCon there. Check out the schedule. Hillary and I will be there. We'll be speaking. It'll be awesome. We should probably work on our presentation. And so yesterday was May the 4th, right? And we actually, Hillary and I had a conversation of what is, what is the best Star Wars movie, right? Hillary and I are both nerds, Star Wars nerds. We had a conversation of what is, what is your favorite Star Wars movie? For those of you watching, if you have a favorite Star Wars movie, drop it in the chat. We can start a flame war. We don't know. But I think, I think we're both in agreement, but what's your, what's your favorite Star Wars movie? Rogue One is by far my favorite Star Wars movie. And I have a laundry list of reasons for why I think that is. Spoiler alert, everybody dies, right? I love that. There's not an over-engineered happy ending, right? The plot's not over-engineered. The special effects are not over-engineered. From everything, from like the writing to the cinematography, that movie just like flowed and it worked. And that's why it is, in my opinion, the best of the movies. And I was actually doing some research on this movie the other day, you know, making sure that I had all my arguments for this movie. And it's funny because some of the things I liked best about, like the way the plot developed, were not the original writing from what some of the reading I was doing. It just was stuff that evolved as the movie was happening, which that kind of, I'm going to go with agility. Agile, do agile, agile writing. I think that's why it's like probably the best movie. And it's an awesome origin story. It answers that big question about where did this schematic come from that kicked off the entirety of, you know, the episodes four, five and six. Yeah, I think it's a good bridge movie, right? Like it's a good, I think, like everyone said, like where do you start watching Star Wars? And I always say, well, now that Rogue One's out, you start with Rogue One. You definitely have to start with Rogue One. And then from there you can watch it in whatever, I mean, I guess you would want to watch episode four right after Rogue One ends just because it ties it all so well together. But it was almost, it's not even just like a good Star Wars movie. It's a good, like just movie in general, right? Just like, just how everything's written. And anyways, as Hillary says, we could probably do the whole hour just talking about like why this, why this is, we were actually, you know, we're having our planning meeting and we're talking about Star Wars. And they're like, well, what's your favorite movie? And like we just happened to agree that it was Rogue One. So Dave, do you have a favorite Star Wars movie? I do. Well, I wouldn't say favorite, but I'd say the one that sort of surprised me the most was actually Solo. I think a lot of people sort of panned it. I don't think they necessarily felt there was consistency between the Han Solo characters. But I liked it. I liked the character itself just for its own, his own personality. Sort of, I thought he was kind of quirky and fun. And I thought the movie had some really interesting characters. So it was more from a surprising perspective. I just didn't expect anything from it. And it made me happy. Oh, okay. See, that's awesome. Let's see here. Someone said, all the ones made in the 80s. So I guess what that would be, what said? A new hope? Yeah, that's only a new hope. I think it was made in the 80s because you have Star Wars episode 4. Oh, a new hope was 77 or something like that. 77, yeah. 77 is the first one. So that is a new hope. Sorry, God. It's the other one. It's Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, right? Yeah. I am just old enough to actually have seen a new hope when it came out in theaters. And the theaters, wow, really? Yeah, I was pretty young then. But I still remember in our kitchen, we're like, what are we going to see tonight? And you open up the newspaper. That's how you found movies back then. And I remember we're flipping through. And it got to that iconic ad with, you know, with Prince of Leia with the pistol. And I immediately just went, that one. I put my finger right on the page. That's what we're going to see tonight. Yeah. And actually, I remember looking up. So like, I think Hillary and I were part of a generation where like, we're in this weird gap where like, things were in the newspaper and also online. So I remember using both to look up movies. So that's very interesting, right? Like kind of just looking in. Or you call that movie guy, remember? Oh, yeah. Movie thing. That was a thing. Yeah. Movie phone or something. Yeah, the movie phone or something like that. Something like that. Yeah. Oh, so far people, someone chose Rogue. Rogue one is another good one. Someone guess we need to give props to Yoda. I think there needs to be more of a Yoda focus in the new one. So. Cool. Cool. So anyways, again, we can talk about this probably like the whole hour. So just to recap, remember Argo con member, getups con if you're in Europe, come say hi. I'll be there. Hillary will be there. We'll actually doing a presentation together. So it'll be kind of like on the road, getups kind of the galaxy. And then Argo con CFPs are still there. So if any of you guys are doing something cool. So anyway. Yeah. We harness. We're going to throw a happy hour on Tuesday after was it? Is that. Is that getups con? Getups. Yes. Yeah. We were going to throw a happy hour then, but we noticed that there's actually kind of a happy hour as a part of that event. So we moved hours to Monday night. So if you show up. And on Monday, we're actually listed on the cube con schedule. So you'll find it there. And it's actually on the beach. So it's, it's. Of course. Yeah. It's worth it. Really nice place. So. Go check that out. Join us. Awesome. There you go. Awesome. So check. Yeah. So there's plenty of do. So if you're there at cube con, there's plenty to do all of us are there. So cool. So. So yeah. So harness. Right. So I've been, you know, I reached out to Dave because I've heard about harness doing some things with around get ops. Going. Doing some things around Argo city. So I figured, hey, let's let's bring on. Let's share the love this, you know, all the Argo love. We know we love the Argo here at red hat. And so, yeah. So Dave. Talk to a little bit about like just harness in general, where you guys are. So, you know, you know, I know it's a, it's a SAS offering, but kind of just, you know, let's, let's explain it to me like I'm five sort of sort of situation for at least for my benefit. Maybe others out there will benefit from as, as well. Yeah. Well, first of all, if you've read the news recently, you may have seen that we just raised a monstrous round of funding. Something like $200 million at a 3.6 million. So, we just, just went big. And what's, what's really interesting and we'll get to this later, but it's really interesting is that we started off as a, a CD company. So like we, we start off with CD first and, you know, now we're providing this, you know, platform. And so we're kind of coming back full circle with, with our code, providing that, you know, you know, platform. And so we're kind of coming back full circle with, with our code, providing that as a service. It's kind of coming back to our roots. So, but that's, that's sort of the interesting news as of late, but I guess just going back a ways. And by the way, I had a community and developer advocacy. So that's, that's my role here. I've been doing that for quite a few years. I was at Redis for five years before this. And done stints at other companies like PayPal, et cetera, in the early days. But the kind of like the origin story, I should say for harness is that Joti, our founder, he was the founder of app dynamics. And before that he was a developer, you know, a programmer, a software engineer. And he was one of the early folks working on monitoring and agents for monitoring that kind of stuff. And there was this kind of new wave of innovation around monitoring. And, and he left his, his previous company to go found company called app dynamics, which you may have heard of. And app dynamics was kind of app dynamics and Dynatrace were like the two big fast growing sort of monitoring companies. And, and so that company just grew and grew and they were about ready to go public. They got acquired by Cisco for coincidentally $3.7 billion. That's kind of a coincidence, but maybe not. And he didn't go with the acquisition. Instead, he decided to take the money he earned and double down and go into funding startups, including his own, which harness was one of them. And harness was started basically from the idea that, okay, you're monitoring, but what's the thing that's causing you the most pain? And he went and talked to his customers and said, okay, I'm, you know, looking to solve some of the problems here, that's causing you the most pain. And they said, well, CI seems to be working CD not so much. And so they said, he said, well, if I go solve the CD problem, that means you pay for that. And they said, yes. And so he went all in on it. He went all in and just like, we're just going to go solve the CD problem. And we did harness has an awesome CD solution. It's got a lot of AI based in it, you know, analyzing logs and other metrics to use machine learning essentially to identify how can we tell if this actually deployed successfully. And if it didn't, if it didn't meet certain criteria, let's roll it back. And so that's what we start off doing. We're fantastic. We're the best in the business at it. And that's how we got our start. And that's probably what half of our valuation is, is the fact that we do that incredibly well. So fast forward, you know, once we got to a point where that was had a certain level of maturity started growing beyond that. Again, Jyoti asking his customers, you know, what else do you want? And it just made sense to offer CI, you know, to go with our CD. So we added CI as a product. And while what's kind of interesting about that part of the story is we were in the process of building our CI offering when Jyoti got the opportunity to acquire drone. So you might be familiar with drone.io. What's really interesting about drone is that people really underestimate how popular it is because Brad, the creator of drone really built it with the community but with very little marketing. So you don't really see anything marketing it, but it is massively popular. And mostly on the low end where people really want a free and easy to use product. But just because it's free and easy to use doesn't mean it doesn't have a lot of the enterprise features, which it does. So it's sort of like the dark horse out there in the CI world. But it's the number two most downloaded, or I should say docker polled, CI product behind Jenkins with about 160 million docker poles So it's pretty significant. To me, that's the most interesting story as a part of this whole history of Harness. And go check it out because it's just wildly popular. Yeah, for those who don't know what drone is. So drone is a CI solution, right? Is that okay? Yeah. Yeah, there seems to be and I kind of want to get your opinion on this. It seems to be I guess now with Kubernetes or now that Kubernetes has matured a lot. A lot of these like CI solutions based on I don't want to say serverless, but kind of like that serverless idea of like hey, you don't need that monolith, right? You just kind of spin up a container, do your build or do whatever you need to do and it spins down, right? There's things like tecton, there's things like Argo workflows. There's Jenkins X, right? That tries to do some of that. And I guess drone is one of those as well, right? I just find it interesting that all these like, I guess as it shows you the maturity of Kubernetes, right? It kind of just as I think we're at a point where Kubernetes has matured so much. All these like, oh hey, I want to do CI now with containers, right? I want to do my builds in this instead of having like a monolith, right? You kind of had like this serverless idea. Yeah, and drone, oh sorry, go ahead. Oh, I mean, I was going to chime in there, right? So having come from, you know, I'm a site reliability engineer, having come from a quality engineering background and spent like tons of time figuring out how do we make, you know, builds and releases reliable and automated, right? And the stride that has achieved over the years. Once Kubernetes hit a level of maturity where you have that like that abstraction layer and you can pretty much guarantee sameness across environments, I think you really saw it take off as like not just a community of practice but as an industry, the CI CD realm. And I think that's been very pivotal. And now it's almost like, well, if this CI engine isn't cloud native, I don't even want it. That's right. And drone was the first to recognize that containers were a game changer. So it actually launched right after Docker did. It was the first CI product to take advantage of Docker and really benefited from that tremendously. The timing was excellent. So it's interesting, go take a look at it. It scales out horizontally, incredibly well. It's very, very lightweight, very, very thin. I came from Redis, which is very similar story. You know, Salvatore built Redis just obsessed with making people happy, focused on keeping it simple. And drone has a very similar path that it's taken to become successful. Brad was not a marketer. He was just a geek and he just loved solving people's problems, responding to people's questions and the chat rooms and all that and just made a great product. So we're really lucky to have it as an influence here inside of Harness. It's definitely like dramatically influencing our Harness CI product. And in fact, we're in the process of actually emerging the two, which sounds difficult, but drone was acquired early enough in the Harness CI development that it already impacted the development quite a bit. So there's not as much to... It's still difficult, but there's not as much as if we took two completely different products and tried to merge them. So that's the drone story. And then from there, it was, again, just listening to customers. We started adding more features. One feature I thought was really interesting is called cloud cost management. I am a huge fan of Heroku from early days. I thought that it was... I still to this day think it was the most influential cloud technology ever. And by the way, I was there in the very, very infinitesimal stage of OpenShift when... I bet you guys don't even know what OpenShift was originally called. CoreOS! No, I said... Yeah, that's it. So OpenShift, so there's a long story, right? So the OpenShift was developed internally or Red Hat, but they actually acquired a company called Makara, I think it is. That's one name, yeah. Makara that did a lot of... And I agree with you. I think Heroku doesn't get enough credit to what they did, especially with the end use. User experience, very important, right? Basically, I just run a few commands and I can see my application up and running. At that time, that was like, right? Mind blown. Exactly. Which is why OpenShift will try to... Internally, we'll try to write something that modeled that. So I think internally the project name was Libra. And then we Red Hat acquired Makara that did a lot of that same functionality of Heroku. So that's my background. You're probably more accurate as far as influenced than I am, but there is a side story to this that at the very beginning, June 24th, 2008, we ran something called Cloud Camp, and Cloud Camp was a super early event in the cloud space. And there was a guy, two guys, Isaac Roth and... I don't know what I'm blank right now. I don't know what I'm blank on his name. Oh, you'll come to me in just a second. He's a good friend of mine, actually. But anyway, so Isaac Roth and... They had a company that they had just raised some money for and they didn't have a name yet. So of all things, they said, we want to sponsor your event and they didn't have a name for their company. So I'm like, well, you got to come up with a name. And they're like, oh, Kobayashi Kun, there you go. That's his other guy's name. And so they came up with a name right there on the spot just so they would have a name to sponsor and they purposely chose a name that was absolutely terrible so they knew they would change it. And it was OSS-1701. Oh, there you go. Yeah. So anyway, they... Glad they changed it. Exactly. But that's, you know, talking about like Star Wars versus Star Trek, 1701 was the USS Enterprise, right? So it was OSS, it was OSS. OSS. 1701. Yeah, there you go. There's another tidbit. I like that. Yeah. So anyway, I'm sidetracked here, but there's this feature that we... that I've always admired that Heroku came out with very early, which is if you want to use their... the only way they could afford to give you a free cloud or a free instance was that if you weren't using it, they would shut it down. And I love that because that's how everyone got to have free, right? And instead of having those containers always running, and so they would shut it down, which is great for demos and students and all that kind of stuff, startups, you know. So we have a feature in cloud cost management, which if you are managing your instances and an instance is not being used, maybe it's something that you don't really care if it shuts down when it's not being used. We'll automatically shut it down for you based on whatever time constraints you have. And it saves people so much money. It's amazing. You know, Amazon says that 40% of all of their instances are not being used. That's crazy. That's rough. That tells you the size of the market that our product can go after, right? Like there's that much waste out there. So I love that feature. And then we came out with feature flags and then we acquired companies to help us create... let's see what's called... service resource management. So like there's our service reliability management and other ones, the security testing orchestration. And then we acquired another company called Chaos Native, which is actually a CNCF company. They have an open source project in the CNCF called Litmus Chaos. We just recently acquired them. So it's been kind of like this build and acquire to growth. And we have now this full platform, but, you know, along comes Argo CD. Actually along comes GitOps, I should say, right? So along comes GitOps, which that cloud camp event that I ran back in June, 2008, one of the co-founders of cloud camp is a guy named Alexis Richardson. Oh, okay. So yeah. So Alexis has gone through many lives since then. You know, he founded RabbitMQ. And of course, then we've works and was one of the key people behind GitOps. And so he's always had this sort of very creative career and I've watched what he's been doing. So I've been watching GitOps for a while. You know, I had at the 10-year anniversary of cloud camp, which was in 2018, had one of their engineers come and talk about GitOps and Flux. And so I've been following it, but it hasn't really been a part of my life. I run Silicon Valley DevOps. So I've, you know, I've heard it, you know, GitOps a lot and Flux and now Argo CD, but it wasn't really a part of my career. And then all of a sudden, Harness is seeing the community organize itself around GitOps and Argo CD. And we look at it as a solution that we think customers want. And it's different than what we do. And even though what we do is very successful for us, we definitely think GitOps is going to be successful too. So we decided to create a GitOps offering. So that's a long convoluted way of telling you the history here, but we have come back full circle and now we're looking at CD again and reinventing ourselves with it. Yeah, I think also, and I had this conversation actually with a coworker today and I'm just going to bring it on here to hear Hillary, your thoughts and Dave, your thoughts here. It's very interesting how I think a lot of people are rethinking CD, right? Because like if you think like with Red Hat, right? Our CI solution on OpenShift is Tecton, right? But a lot of people don't know that Tecton is CI CD, right? Like Tecton, like, you know, Soup2Nuts, CI CD offering, right? That you can do CI CD, but it's missing that last component, right? To do the continuous reconciliation from, you know, whatever your source of truth is, right? And so I think there's like a reimagining of like, okay, like how can I fully get that full automation, right? Of, you know, not just delivering software, but as soon as everything's done and tested, it gets delivered and deployed, right? And, you know, that's that whole, and then there's the whole auto healing, self healing, you know, reconciliation. There is, you know, a lot of people try to glom together like, you know, oh, what, you know, why do I need, you know, getups if I'm already doing CI CD? It's like, well, it's that extra last step. It's the other CD, right? As you know, that Atlassian talking about like CI CD, continuous delivery versus continuous deployment. There's that last mile of like automatically going to production that I think getups solves really, really well, amongst other things, right? Yeah, and that's really what happened. Like all the CI companies decided they wanted to do CD, but they did the first CD. They did, you know, continuous deployment, which basically means I've created this stuff and it will run in a production like environment, but they didn't actually do all the testing and all that kind of stuff, right? So you're, you've got the resources and the assets and they're ready to go, but you still have to go put them over there and make sure it works. And what I like about our CD is, and just the whole getups concept is, it's like we're saying, okay, you know, we used to have to go through and have all of these ops people, you know, go through all of this process, right? Of making sure that all of the checklists, you know, the release automation checklist and orchestration checklist, all that was done correctly and there was like a manual process for that. And now with this concept, you're kind of saying, well, we got our own like roadway now to get this thing into production. And so we're just going to yellow like deploy you only live once, woo-hoo, you know, and just get it out there. But I like it because it's like a forcing function for ops to say, wait, wait, wait, no, you can't do that. And then you say, why not, right? And then ops will say, but, but, but, and then the reality is that they have a legitimate concern. You know, there's definitely times when you don't want to just yolo into production, but they need to explain themselves, right? They need to come to the table and say, here are the things that we need to be a part of this deployment process. And then that can go into, you know, the get ops process that could be, that can become a part of it, right? Some of the checks and balances that you need. So I love it as a forcing function. Yeah, it's, it's interesting, right? Christian referenced the Atlassian definition of CITD, which is one of my like long-term favorite go-to definitions. And the, yeah, the yellow deployment on the screen just told me. I'm just laughing at that. Serious minute, guys. Geez. I'm trying to be, I'm trying to be serious. I'm trying to be so serious. Failed. Anyway. So, right. So, you know, CICD for a long time, it actually, I would say as a community of practice, codified test-driven development, codified the, the automation of testing and the automation of reporting on testing and so forth. And it really built that into the process of delivering code. But the, the CD, right? That part there's not like, now, now we basically said there's a second CD, right? And that's like a really great way of putting it. Cause there was not cohesion in the industry around what CD really meant. Is it that you're continuously deploying or that you're continuously delivering that code to end users. And tools like Argo CD and just like GitOps in general, kind of helped solve some of the most technical challenges to doing that. One is what is your consistency of operations? That's really important. I don't know about other people, but I've actually had that stuff not kept anywhere in like a Git repository. And then it actually caused production failures because it turns out there were resource differences between the environments that were not, that were not recorded anywhere and GitOps solves that. And that's very nice because you're guaranteed to know that what you're testing is the right things. So from a quality perspective and from a reliability engineering perspective, I can, I can take a look at what's in there and say, okay, yeah, this is, this makes sense. This looks good based on everything we know about these workloads. This is going to be sustainable and resilient. And so the last part, one of the hardest parts that I like the most about how a Christian can speak to this way better is the like codification of like tagging and cutting and naming releases. I remember several years ago working in a company where like, okay, we can do all this stuff. And this is the way we want to like, you know, name our releases and how we want to change and how we want to do the versioning. And like, well, under these conditions we're going to change like, you know, the versioning in this way and so forth. And there was no way for us to like, like take that policy and turn it into automation, like not a good way. And so that, that kind of like the CD tools that have come out that kind of help you do those things have bridged that gap. And it really, it just makes the life of, you know, the engineers who have to do the release engineering, the CI CD engineering, it makes it our lives easier because we can say this is how it's all going to work. And here it lives in get. Yeah. It's like, what's in production? Well, whatever's in get. Right. Cause then you, now you have, now you have like an enforcer, right? Yeah. Which is a get ops controller, right? For us, it'll be our Argo CD, right? A lot of people use flux, whatever you're using, it doesn't matter. It's, it's your, you have that reflection, right? And it's like, well, what's, what's in get, especially if you're using things like, cause you can like use tags to deploy, right? With Argo CD, not just like, you don't just point to a branch. I mean, you can, but you can also like point to a tag. So a specific tag. So like, which I think is better because you have like an actual, you know, the tags, the tag, right? And the, right? Like in the only way, you know, to update that is to change that tag reference somewhere in, in the configuration. So, um, so we do have a question. Don't understand the question, but maybe it'll push the conversation along. Um, the conversation is, does the solution have any intellectual use cases? And then they corrected saying intellectual property. Um, use cases. Yeah. So, um, Good question. Not sure. Um, I think, I think Dave was, um, just about to talk about how the get ops, um, solution works at hardness. Um, but, uh, Boil's info, Infosys, if you can clarify a little bit what you mean about the intellectual property use cases. Um, clarify that. That'd be good. I'm just wondering maybe he's talking about like, you know, if it's in get, then there may be, there's some in compression that it's publicly available. And therefore, you know, your intellectual property might be shared or something, but you can certainly use it with your, a private get repo and, you know, deploy or build, uh, software that's, that's not publicly available. So I think it should be able to be used with your own intellectual property software. Yeah. Yeah. Get just, get doesn't necessarily mean get hub, right? It could just be, right? You can, you can have it behind the firewall. It's, it's, or you can have just a regular standard get instance, right? Just regular open source get. Yeah. And, um, and by the way, uh, shout out to get tea. I don't know if anybody's ever used. Oh, I love get tea. I, I deploy it for all my demos. So it's, it's just super simple. Nice and easy. I love that. And, uh, it kind of defaults to drone, which I like. Um, but then drone kind of defaults to get tea. There's a little nice relationship there. But anyway, um, yeah. So let's see. I had a couple of things I was going to share. Let me just think for a second here. Um, so, yeah. So just kind of getting back to that story where harness is looking at, at get ops and, and Argo CD and, and, you know, flux the whole kind of get ops movement and saying, well, you know, as a company, we've been really successful deploying for our customers. Right. And, and, but we're until recently, we've been a very top down sales oriented company. And we've been very successful at that. You know, hey customers, you've got some problems. Let me show you how you can solve it. And we're very, very good at that. And, but there's a, you know, the way that our product works, it's, it's kind of like a pipeline. Like you, you got your code in a get repo or any repo really. And we take it through a little bit of a process to get it ready to be deployed. You know, you can specify in our pipeline in our user interface, you know, here are the resources you want that kind of stuff. So we can, you know, it's a little bit prescriptive. Like you're going to go through and tell it what to do. And the get ops methodology is like, you don't have to do that because it's all set up and get already. Right. Like you've configured it with your helm chart or your customized file, et cetera. And that is all you need. The rest is going to go into production. And so that's a different way of doing things. And while for a while we were thinking, you know, we like the way we do it because it gives you a little bit of extra control and customization. And, you know, some enterprise customers are absolutely not ready to just take stuff from a get repo and put it into production. So like having some extra steps that require intervention, or at least some checks and balances, you know, throughout the deployment process is really what they feel comfortable with. But there's just a ton of use cases out there where a helm chart is good enough, you know, the get ops process will work perfectly well. And so recognizing that we feel that like let's not miss the boat. Like this, this ship is often, you know, heading off to see like, you know, we better take off now. Otherwise we're never going to catch it. So, you know, we still see the boat and we think we can catch it. And that's what we're doing with, you know, while we have our, well, basically we have two offerings now. Right. And we think that some people will be attracted to get ops for the reason that get ops was created. We think some other people will be attracted to get ops because it's catching on. And they think that it's going to solve their problem. And then once they get into it, they realize they have some intricacies that get ops hasn't solved yet. And so we'll have a solution for them as well. So, you know, we, that's what we think. And I think that's going to work out well for us. I'm part of the more of the get ops process. Like I'm working with the community. That's what we do in our community side of harness. We're just getting started. So it's sort of a new community, but we're using our existing drone community to sort of kickstart that. And so we'll be putting together, you know, drone plus Argo sort of processes and educating people about that. Both are open source. And then if you want sort of like the enterprise offering that harness offers as a service, then of course you can use that from us as well. And we also recently, very recently offered our CD product, which is not the get ops product, but our regular CD product as software. It's not open source, but it's source available. It's very similar to open source, but it's, you can't use it to like go offer your own offering to other customers, but you can certainly use it for whatever you want for yourself, you know, and offer it to customers inside your company. So that's called harness CD community edition, but that is not get ops. That is, that's our traditional pipeline product. And I think in the future, you know, we'll see how it goes, but I can imagine that we might have a harness get ops community edition as well. So anyway, that's kind of the starting point for the whole thing. And you know, beyond that, if you want, I can go into more detail, but that kind of gives you the, the background of where, like why would a company who's already doing CD really well, very successful, want to then take on a new type of CD, which the get ops methodology, and that's just because of customer demand. Yeah. And it also shows, I think, like you said, customer demand and it shows, I think more, again, the maturity, right? The maturity of, of Kubernetes, right? And maturity of cloud native software, right? It's no longer, you know, it's no longer things that people are testing on. It's things people are deploying on, like in product. I mean, Hillary can tell you, Hillary deals with this all, all day every day, right? I don't know if she, she might even be on call right now. I'm not, I'm about to go on call soon, but I'm okay. There you go. There you go. Yeah. And on call. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just remember the slash retest, right? Always. Slash cancel. Slash cancel. Yeah. Just slash cancel. But I think it does show the maturity and, and also I think it shows the, it's, it's like some of the things I always like, I don't know if you heard Alexis Richardson's like story about, like him coining the phrase of get ops, right? And it really comes down to like the history of the SRE and what like the SRE provided and like all the tools that they built to try to make their lives a little easier. And it shows that, you know, that maturity into like, oh, okay. Now, like, you know, turning it around and packaging that up and kind of just selling that solution. You know, you have the, you know, I always, people, people always talk about get ops as a new thing. And it's not necessarily a new thing. It just has a new name to it, right? It just, you know, we're just kind of putting a name to something. And we're kind of just packaging it up now as a, like a solution now versus where it's like, Oh, these were just kind of stuff that the SREs were doing. At least if you hear Alexis, he tells us obviously the story better than I, because he lived it, but it kind of like, Hey, you know, this is the kind of stuff that my SREs were doing. Let's do that for everyone, right? Like not just internally. It reminds me a little bit going back, way back to the, like, again, like 2008, when we were starting up cloud camp, there was another person you might recognize. You should know him named John Willis, who was running around as a part of that early gang. And, and he loved to tell the story about how he was an IT person. And, you know, the IT people kind of come out of, they're like cicadas. They kind of go underground and like work on things for years and years and years and, you know, just kind of keep, keep everything running. But then all of a sudden, you know, all hell breaks loose and they got to come out and fix things for us again. So like the cloud came and all of a sudden we needed them to come out and like, you know, help us solve this cloud problem because, but he was talking about early, early days where the way that you deployed software was, I don't know if you guys remember this, but like you literally just FTP right into production. I'm actually talking about exactly that in our upcoming get-offs con talk. I actually, I have a slide about this. Like, I'll be posing like, who's deployed production code by hand, right? And I got one of my old make files, which is still like very modern compared to how we did it at times, right? Which would, would go do like, okay, if I want this to build here, I have to do these, these, you know, bash things. If I want this to do, go over here and in production, it's better got to do these bash things. And like, right? Like that's how we did. We FTP some stuff and ran make. Yeah. You had make, like make was like big deal. Right. Right. It was pretty nuts. And so, and then from there it evolved to like somebody with a script that was on their hard drive, you know, it'd be like Bob's script or Barbara's script, right? Like, and it was sitting on their computer, you know, and if you're lucky, they put it on like a network drive or something like that so that if, you know, anything ever happened to them that you can never get in and deploy your application again. So there was like some script somewhere. And then all of a sudden people were like, you know, maybe there's a better way. And let's take that script and put it into a get repo or, you know, and that was kind of like back in the CF engine or puppet or chef days, right? But at least your script was shared in some sort of source code repository or something like that. So like that back then was best practices, right? And so that was like a, that was like IT came out and said, you know, let us solve this problem for you. Here you go, right? And then they went away for a while and then, you know, then they came back again and did, you know, here's get ops, right? So it does remind me of like, they'll just come out every once in a while and drop a little pearl of wisdom. And then boom, we're off and running again. Jenkins, right? Even, even outside of chef and puppet, you can't skip Jenkins, right? Jenkins is like the industry standard. But, you know, remember, like now we have these beautiful pipelines and they're like one cohesive workflow. We had to daisy chain the Jenkins jobs together, right? That was like a feature that got added, like, oh, you can trigger another job from this first job, right? It was, we had to do all of this, you had jobs running on like, oh, well, this will take roughly this amount of time and we want to do it this often. So we're going to have this other job that runs like every three hours to do this, right? You try to scatter them so they, yeah. And at the end of the day, right, what are we really doing at the end of the day? At the end of the day, we're just running a bunch of bash commands. That's really what we're doing. We just orchestrated our bash commands now. Now it's orchestrated. Right, and I think, you know, from a harness perspective, we have a conference in September 14th that we just announced a call for papers for. It's called Unscripted. And the whole reason for Unscripted is that like writing all of those scripts was great, you know, 10 years ago, that was like cutting edge. But do you really want to create a whole bunch of scripts these days? Like there's been enough evolution where the platform keeps rising and eating up more of your scripts. And so like there's just not as much need to write scripts anymore. Cause, you know, we've got Kubernetes and all that, solve a lot of those problems just out of the box. And so, you know, we think it's time to target having no scripts. You know, it might not be a reality today, but it's certainly something that we think should be a goal. It's just going to be YAML. All YAML. That's right. We're replacing everything with YAML. Then we'll be talking someday in the future about like no YAML. I don't know what that looks like, but. I don't know. I never thought YAML was going to be a standard. I really like, I didn't. I was in web to print working with XML all day, every day. And I was like, I don't, I don't understand how this YAML thing is going to go. It's going to take off. Man, I like, if I could go back to my past self and be like, you better like pay more attention here. I would. Yeah. Awesome. So anyway, that's, that's kind of what I got for you. But if you want, I do have like a slide. I can talk a little bit about it if you want. Yeah. We have time for that. Yeah. Yeah. I know we have, we have, we have some time here and a while, while Dave is doing that. If you have any questions, feel free to drop that into the chat here. People talking about, not even SFTP, but FTP. That's, that's, that's all old school. Some people have done their deployments. FTP put. I've written a lot of, a lot of SSH. Loops in my, in my time. So all right, cool. Got pictures, pretty pictures. Yeah. This is just a simple diagram to give you a simple architectural overview. It's, it's not like anything rocket science here, but honestly, thanks to Argo CD being a little bit more, more well known, you don't have to get into all the details. So, you know, from our perspective, we have a very nice, sort of like dashboard where you can go in and deploy your application through a UI experience. And so that's what we're bringing to, you know, the Argo CD is our, a similar experience that people are used to. And so what that means is we have, you know, from your browser, you're going to log into Harness and you, you access our Harness application. And within that is the GitOps application. And then what we're doing is we have, you know, a, we've basically taken the, the Argo CD, what do you call it? Well, we call it agent. I forget what it's called in Argo CD, but we've taken that, the functionality that does the work of Argo CD. And, you know, like, the different controllers. So yeah, it's, it's, I think they just call it Argo CD in general. But yeah, I know what you're talking about the GitOps. I guess GitOps, there's also a GitOps engine that sits inside of, of Argo CD. Yeah. So I apologize for not knowing exactly which components, but we've taken those components within Argo CD and we've basically just wrapped it up. Right. Cause we don't want to change Argo CD. We want to be able to evolve with Argo CD. So basically it's a very simple process. Well, it's simple on the outside. It's hard inside, right? Cause we've got to match up the Argo CD functionality to our UI, right? So our existing users will find it familiar. And also we want Argo CD users who want to use UI to find it familiar. So it's, it's kind of actually magic from that perspective. And I don't have a screenshot of that to show you, but you know, that's what you'll see from within the harness application. And then from there on out, you're basically falling out, you know, forms and not too many thankfully, but you'll fill out a few forms, you're specifying, you know, the repo, the cluster, you're authenticating, you know, all that kind of stuff that helps. And from a visual interface inside of our application, provide the content or the, the attributes and the data that you need, the metadata that you need in order to let Argo CD do its job. And then, then we do what Argo CD does. We, we monitor the desired state in the Git repo. We, we pull from that Git repo. We, you know, push it into the target cluster, which one thing that we do, which is kind of interesting is from within harness, it doesn't matter how many get ops agents and clusters you're running. They'll all show up in one screen. So you'll, you'll have like a one dashboard to go and see all of your different deployments. Yeah. Single pane of glass sort of thing. Yeah. It's a single pane. That's what customers want. They don't want to like, you know, bounce around a different, you know, tabs and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, we've done, that's where a lot of our work has been is just really creating like a multi-tenant Argo interface. So that they can quickly and easily see all their different applications. So that's the main thing we've done. And then the rest of it's Argo CD. So, you know, not a lot really to share. I know there's a lot more that goes on behind the scenes and maybe there's something interesting in there that I don't know about yet, but I think the main thing is we're just simply saying, this is what customers want. Well, some customers, again, based on some use cases and, you know, for those use cases, we want to make sure that our customers are getting what they want. And at the end of the day, we know that some of those customers will star off and they'll say, you know what, we thought that Argo CD was going to be enough and, but there's these additional security checks or precautions or whatever that Harness CD offers and we'd rather have that. And someday I'd like to see us offer that to our Harness GitOps offering. So maybe we can add that at the end of the GitOps. Like maybe it goes into production, but it's maybe in like a blue-green environment or something like that. So it did the CD process, or the Argo CD process, but it's still not live as far as to end users yet. And then it goes through those checks. Like then we can add in additional checks and then that's when it gets exposed. I think that might be one way to have the best of both worlds. So one thing about the design that I have a question about what Harness is, is that something that's hosted, meaning that like let's say I have like three Kubernetes clusters, I don't have to install Argo on those clusters, right? I can just use the platform that has Argo in it and it'll deploy the application. Yeah, so I want to be careful not to say more than I know, but what I believe happens is you have to install that what we call the agent, right? And that agent has the Argo CD components in it there and that goes into your cluster. Gotcha, gotcha. And once you've got that in your cluster, then everything else works without having to install anything else. Ah, okay, okay. I was under another impression. All right, cool. Thank you for that clarification. Awesome. And also you said easy on the outside, hard on the inside. I think that's Hillary's life, right? To end users, right? So like end users is just like, it just looks like magic. And then Hillary's out here pulling her hair. It's, you know, 3 a.m. and I'm figuring out that the rate limiting is coming from how fast the bash script can run. Okay, if I add in this weight, suddenly it's fine and that one was a good one. Not at 3 a.m., thankfully, but there have been other interesting ones at 3 a.m. Yeah, I was actually going to invite our product manager to join me today, but he's getting ready to, he's flying out to India to go meet with a lot of the engineers who are building this, you know, because every once in a while, it's just better to be in a room with same people, you know? Yes, finally. And we'll finally get there at Valencia. At least Hillary and I will finally get there. I am meeting so many people that I actually directly work with for the very first time in Valencia. That's awesome. That's awesome. You know, we're SREs. We follow the sun. I don't talk to other people in California, except for right now, like today, but like every day you have to, right? That's amazing. That's a record, by the way. Every single day, right? I'm talking to other members of my team, you know, both like I'm a team lead to the people who, who I'm helping to, you know, do their best work. And then my, my like upline, who's helping me to do my best work. Right? I'm talking to them all over the globe. So to actually like be in the same room with these folks is going to be really exciting. Yeah. I unfortunately will miss it, but I will be in Detroit later this year. Awesome. Awesome. So we'll meet up then. So cool. Cool. So I have Steph, Steph in my ear here. We didn't, I didn't know we had a hard stop. So I apologize in advance here. So check out Harness, right? Harness.io. I put that link. Yeah. And we do have, we do have a, I think you put it here. Sure. You have a beta. Do you want to join the beta? Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. I need to get that link for the beta. We'll get that pretty soon. Come check out. It works. Yeah, let's see here. Oh, there it is. Yeah. Awesome. I'll put that also here. So that's to get up beta. Check that out here. And then we'll be in Argo CD again. We love Argo CD. That's why I wore the shirt. We'll be in Valencia. So we are actually on break. Usually we do it every other Thursday here. But that phone falls under Kubecon and neither Hillary nor I will be in the States at that time. So we're skipping that date. So, and also give me the week off so you can check out everything on Kubecon. I'm pretty sure there's going to be tons of announcements there from everyone. And join our, join us in the happy hour. I just put the URL down there. Okay. Yeah. Oh, awesome. Cool. Yes. I will put that in chat as well. Oh, you already did. Oh, look at that. You're already ahead of me. Awesome. Awesome. Cool. So thank you, Dave. Thank you very much for joining us from harness. And Hillary, have any other parting words, thoughts, concerns, anything you want to tell the people? No. Thank everybody for joining and thank you, Dave. This was a really interesting conversation. Yeah. I enjoyed it myself. Thank you very much for having me. Love the conversation. We love to geek out here. So, Yeah. So everyone, thank you for joining. We'll, we'll see you after Kubecon. And as I always say, unless it's in get, it's only a rumor. Bye everyone. See ya.