 ar y ddwylo cyfnod o'r prydyniad ar gyfer y gweithreithiau prymysg y Llywodraeth Cymru yn unedig. Yn ymgyrchwyr, wedi'i gweithio'r problem yw'r corff hon yn ymgyrchwyr yng nghaerffordd yng Nghymru ynghylch gan ysgolol ym Llywodraethau yn ymdilladau yn Llywodraethau yn ymdilladau yn Ymdilladau ynghylch, lle mae'r cyfrifetiau ynghylch yn ymdilladau yn ymdilladau yn ymdilladau'u cyfrifetau'u yn ymdilladau'u cyfrifetau. he said, the party's chairman is using President Mohammed al-Bahari as a cover-up for the former's inability to make a headway regarding the screening of presidential aspirants. Now, Lukman said that despite the multitude of challenges affecting the party, Adaml has remained largely inaccessible. The APC had shifted its primary originally, stated for May 30 to June 6th and 7th following the decision of the Independent National Electrical Commission to extend the deadline for the conduct of the primary's bi-polisical parties to June 9. What's running us to discuss this and more is that Dr Da Cuckoo Adol Petiside, he is a former director general of the Nigerian Maritime Administration and Safety Agency in Massa. It's always a pleasure to have you join us in the studio. Great. Several reports of the allegations about what's happening within the APC, I beg your pardon. So my first question is, is the APC in crisis? The APC is not in crisis. There are no indicators to that effect. I just listened to you talk about the opinion of Lukman, one of the six national vice-chairmen of the party. He's entitled to his opinion and he complained about leadership style of the chairman. Now mind you have 140 members in the National Executive Committee of the party and one person is complaining about the leadership style, you know. The way we are, you know, we have people of different genetic make up, different experiences, different perspective, different level of education and enlightenment. We are likely not going to see things from the same perspective. A very good thing about the APC is that the APC has a father figure in the president, the APC has a leader and so if there is a thorny issue, if there is an issue that requires consideration from outside the National Working Committee, you have a president that can intervene, step in and correct things. So APC is not in crisis. Is it the same president that we're talking about because Mr President has tried as much as possible in the past years to stay aloof when it comes to party politics, especially the APC, being that we've seen several issues come up, whether it be with the former leadership of the party and now. So really, does the president get involved in these issues because he seems to be more aloof when it comes to internal party politics? Typicaly, the president should not delve into internal party politics, but from time to time, as leader of the party, as a man who is elected on the platform of the party, he's expected to intervene if only for corrective purposes and stability of the party. Interesting. Now, let's take a look at the number of presidential hopefuls within the party. It's a record number this time around. We see very interesting people in the run up. But then, when you look at the political weight and structure, the prowess of the people who have put their hats in the ring and say they want to run, what should be the deciding factor for choosing a flag bearer in the PDP? For you, who's been a member of the party for this long? I mean, if it comes to that, if it comes down to delegate systems, because we're not certain what the APC is going to go by, whether you're going to do a consensus or you're going to have to use the delegate system, but if it comes down to the delegate system, what should be, because I just asked the same question to my former guest, what should be the consideration of these delegates being that they're the ones who decide who we, the voters, get to vote for at the end of the day? All right, thank you very much. If it comes down to delegate selection or what you call indirect primaries, and I know it will definitely be indirect primaries for the APC, I think that there will be five top most considerations. The first one is capacity or competence to govern the country. That's one. The second one is that you need to win an election before governing the country. So, APC will look after a candidate that appeals to the Nigerian people, that has mass appeal. That's second. Third, the party will look after a candidate, and it relates to the number one, the candidate that can't implement the manifesto of the party. Now, a party runs on a thread that will have a clear vision, a clear vision of what we want to do in the country, how we want to change the country. And a presidential candidate that will ultimately be elected as president of the country should be the chief driver of the implementation of the manifesto of the party. So, the party will watch out for that. Then the fourth thing a party will watch out for is somebody who is able to unify the diverse interests in the party. There are usually multiple interests in the party, whereas there may be some ideological bonding, even in other advanced democracies. If you have Democrats, you have those who are far to the left and those at the center. If you have Republicans, you have those far right and those at the center. So, you must watch out for that candidate that's able to unify divergent interests in such a way that it doesn't affect the implementation of the party manifesto and ultimately deliverance, the delivery of services to the Nigerian people. Then the party will also watch out for whose personal qualities will help the party win the elections. Charisma, integrity, experience, background, totality of all of that will stand a candidate out or an aspirant out so that the party can elect a candidate. I'll start with the last thing that you said. Integrity, trust, charisma, experience. Yes. These are some of the qualities that were sold to us as Nigerians when President Bohari first came. A lot of Nigerians cast their votes based on these qualities that you have listed. You also talked about other things about being able to govern, bring change to Nigerians. Can you really say that Nigerians or the President, the Bohari administration has lived up to those things that you've numbered out this evening? It's almost similar to the things that we heard when the President was vying for this position. So I would really want to hear what these candidates will say because if they're saying they want a better Nigeria, will that be saying that the President didn't give us the better Nigeria that we were hoping for? And does this not make his presidency look bad? In absence of a survey, we cannot say that this is a unified position of Nigerians. The position of Nigerians about the Bohari presidency is as divergence as we have diverse ethnic groups or diverse people in the country. You can engage a man. He will tell you that nobody in the history of this country has done well like President Bohari in the era of infrastructure. You can engage another person. He will tell you that if not for the coming of President Bohari, our security situation would have deteriorated to such a point that would have been a failed state by now. That Bohari simply arrested the crumbling of our security architecture. Has he really? I'm telling you that I'm curious to know how the President has. You're not taking the censors to arrive at what you can call a unified position of Nigerians. We see the level of security that we're facing in the country right now as opposed to what it was. How has President Bohari arrested issues? Let's talk about the latest of it all, the train tragedy. I remember when that tragedy happened. Up till now, we've had insecurities over and over, but this one hits really close to home. How has insecurity really been arrested by this government because I would really like for you to explain to every other person who's watching and why we should say that the President has arrested the situation? I thought this now when talking about politics, but I'll quickly take you through that maybe for adventure you have forgotten. Now, I recall that under the Gulogunatan presidency, girls in Chibok were kidnapped till date. Students have been kidnapped under Bohari's administration. Yes, but we've not had a case worse than the Chibok case till date. Really? Chibok is the longest. Really? I'm not saying things are good, but get me wrong. I'm only saying it could have been worse. Nigerians didn't vote, Mr President, because we're talking elections yet, we're talking campaigns, we're talking about the rhetorics. Nigerians didn't vote for it could have been worse. Nigerians voted for a better security situation and the President promised us to put an end to terrorism. Here we are seven years down the line. It brings me back to my question. You've given us the determining factors. A lot of people can come out and give us rhetorics and say the nicest things. We could even have traced the antecedents down to when they won elections, how good they were when they governed. But when it comes to 2022 or let's say 2023, Nigeria has changed. Is that person going to be capable of running this Nigeria? OK, now if you ask me, there are two things that Nigerians will prioritize in electing a President. And I can say that with some sense of responsibility. Two, a key. One, the issue of security. The second is job creation. If there's a time that we are facing the challenge of insecurity, it is now. And I believe it can be fixed. When the fireworks of campaigns starts, we like to hear from the different presidential candidates how they intend to fix security in our country. Nigerians would love to know, would love to hear. It's not about rhetorics. We say in six months, I will ensure that there's no insecurity. The next question is how? Please can you give us details of your plan to deal with insecurity? Enough of rhetorics. Now the other thing is job creation. There's a challenge we face today is the fact that unemployment fits insecurity and they are correlated. Now unemployment is a catalyst for the insecurity we're facing today. Nigerians would like to know how you intend to fix the economy and by extension fix jobs for people. So I don't think there's any dispute about that at all. OK. Let me bring you back to the APC primaries. There have been so many speculations about former president Goodluck Jonathan picking a ticket, being a member of the party, not being a member of the party. A group of people buying him the form, you know. And then over the weekend we saw reports on the pages of national dailies of persons within the political party saying he will not be imposed on the party. These are all speculations but you are a member of the party and would like to hear. Share your thoughts on the president, former president Goodluck Jonathan's situation. Is he going to be on the screen list? Is he a member of your party? What's the situation? All right. I will rather say let me affirm the position of the National Working Committee of the party and the presidency. They are very clear that former president Goodluck Jonathan is not a member, is not a carry member of the All Progressive Congress. But the biostate APC had said that he has been a member of the party. Never did the biostate APC say so. It was reported. It was a creation of social media. They never said so. Interesting. That's one. Two. He did not purchase the APC presidential nomination form. He did not submit same. He has not presented himself for screening. And so there is no way that those foundational things are not in place. You expect him to emerge as candidate of the APC. That would be the greatest, I don't want to call it of the century. I don't want to call it 419 or that would be the seventh or ninth wonder of the world in the world of politics. So I don't expect that President Goodluck Jonathan will emerge as candidate of the APC. The likelihood is remote. Now let's go back to the member of the party that had spoken about. I'm not going to be wrong. He's a good man. He's a great man. That's not in doubt. But let's stick to party politics here. Let's go back to the reports that the party chairman is under fire and has not necessarily implemented the agreement of the National Working Committee as to the party and is hiding under President Bohairi's name to run away from responsibilities in the words of that gentleman. But then is there a disconnect between what the NWC's position is as opposed to the plans that are in the works for the priorities in itself? What I can see is that rumour, intrigues, misunderstanding is part of our political culture. Our political culture is still evolving. At this stage, what I can say, I'm not a member of the National Working Committee. I'm not a member of the National Executive Committee of the party. And so I am not seized of facts and decisions made that has not been implemented. Perhaps he who alleged should come and present more details to Nigerians and say, In the National Working Committee, we agreed on ABC and this has not been implemented. For me, an ordinary member of the party, I can see that things are proceeding at pace. Things are going well. And so we expect that in the next few days, we will go for our party convention. One of the aspirants will be elected as candidate of the party and will go ahead and defeat the PDP as we have always done. And of course continue to reign and do better for the country. I like your optimism. I'm an incredible optimist. I must say something that I've noticed in today's conversation being, whether from the PDP's conversation to this conversation, the PDP obviously thinks the APC is the only opposition. The APC also thinks that the PDP is the only opposition. What about the other political parties? You seem to look at only the PDP. Why is that? Is it that you do not consider the other candidate to the other political party? My latest column dealt with what I call the prospect of the third force. The reality today, the reality is not what we would have desired, is not imagination, is not theoretical. The reality of today is that only two political parties have the national spread, the organizational structure. They have the resources to probably emerge as... According to what statistics, where did you get this? Have you done a recent survey of sorts to make you certain that the Labour Party does not have the spread of the PDP? Neither does any other party on the STP. I can give you additional indicators. I can give you additional indicators as we speak. Now, in the National Assembly, you have two dominant parties. The APC and the PDP. The other party with some presence at the National Assembly is what they call the Young Progressive Party and one other party. So not having someone in the National Assembly, does that also come down to the structure of the party? That assembly is two. The various houses of assembly at the state level. Only five parties have presence. What does that tell you? But the STP used to be a big party in this country. So are you saying that those structures have crumbled? I mean, do they exist to exist because they no longer look at the party that is leading? They no longer look at electoral seats won by these parties. They are two dominant parties. Whether as governors, in any case, for the governors, there are three parties, PDP, APC, and I've got one state. As you measure the strength of a party, one who has measured the strength of a party is by electoral victories. There are many other ways, different models to measure the strength of a party. The number of the state seats, the number of government houses to occupy, their membership strength, they are present in every local government. So visibly, the PDP and the APC are dominant. And it's like that in most mature democracies. Now, if you look at the UK, you have the Conservative Party and the Labour Party. There are these two dominant parties. That does not mean that there are no other parties. In the United States, of course, you have the Democrats and the Republicans. There are other parties. In Kenya, you have two major parties. There are other smaller parties. In South Africa, you have two dominant parties. The ANC and the Democratic Alternative. It doesn't mean that you don't have other parties. And so these parties are called parties on the fringes, on the fringed parties. They have them in Nigeria too. They have what it takes to win the presidency at doubt. Well, that might be a tough call. But then all those things remain to be seen. Finally, before I let you go, because time is not on our side. Is the party going to be considering the southern call for the presidential ticket? Or are they going to dump zoning and throw their ticket open as the People's Democratic Party? Well, to date, the party has not taken a firm position on the issue of zoning. Why is that? Now, but I can tell you this. Now, on the leadership of the party, if you watch what is playing out, the tendency is that you will convince yourself that the party is pro-Sultan candidate. And I don't say anything wrong with that. I support that. What has happened in the past or until now is that Nigerians have a misconception about the not. A monolithic not or a not, a homogeneous not, you know, there's nothing like that. A monolithic just not, where everybody that is in the not is a Muslim, the concept of one not, everybody in the not will vote for a common political party because that party is presenting a not-on candidate. A culturally united not, not likely. Now, in the not, you have multiple ethnic groups. You have at least two major religions there. You have a substantial number of Christians as well as you have Muslims. You have, you know, people of diverse cultures and diverse political persuasion. Now, even the literacy level differs from area to area. And so, the not is not going to vote in bloc or as one bloc. So, if our party presents a Sultan, if APC presents a Sultan candidate, he has equal chance like another candidate. Well, all thing is across. Come June we will be watching to see what happens at the Eagle Square. I think you go square. Okay. Well, the Cuckoo Adolpisticide is the former director general of Nigerian Maritime Administration and Safety Agency, the master. Thank you so much for being part of the conversation. And thank you too. Always a pleasure. All right. Well, thank you all for staying with us. We have come to the end of today's conversation. Always talking for development. We'll be back tomorrow at 7 p.m. with Post Politics. I'm Mary Annacol and have a great evening.