 Right now. Um, hey, how's it going? And it turns out yeah, we're live and I'm Dazza and I'm calling you from the United States of America Right here in Cambridge at MIT where you were just around the corner mere days ago. Hey, it was It was wonderful. Yeah, I'm glad to I'm sorry. I couldn't join you in person You know Australia for the meetup tonight, but what a great idea we brainstormed about just making a quick video to Say hello, I guess number one and just get those connections going but also did you want me to? What do you want me to? Say something about blockchain or yeah Yeah, exactly. Look, I don't mind whether it's blockchain related legally related a bit of both I know you've got other projects on that are really exciting But this is a blockchain meetup So anything that you could share that's taken your fancy people are talking about what they're reading what they're interested in or any projects they're working on Sure, okay. Well, gosh, there's so much. Okay, so actually I'll show you something that we're doing tonight So nothing better than the present. I suppose and you know what we're doing a meetup. So Here we go Okay, and the meetup is With the most Super fantastic group legal hackers So are these the Cambridge and Boston legal hackers? Massachusetts hackers. Okay. Okay, cool. And here's the here's the screen right now doing a little screen share So this is whoa, that's bouncy. This is Massachusetts legal hackers meetup for tonight Which on Tuesday sometimes we do legal hack night with pizza with pizza You can hack anything and what we'll be hacking is electronic transferable records as part of a project with the MIT digital currency initiative to start to refactor paper where paper-based warehouse receipts and and perhaps some other like bearer instruments into Electronic digital objects and so, you know, they've got lots of you know business people and technology people There but got to talking and realized, you know, some of what matters here Is the law which includes, you know, like standards for example for what it takes to have an electronic Here we go an electronic Like, you know transferable record including that it needs to be for example You have to show it like exclusive control and Can we get off screen share here and and you know and a few other things and so and so we're going to get together and basically Oh clicking the wrong button and basically I've got some lawyers I'm calling in and coming on the table a lot of technologies and business people and I'm basically gonna try to facilitate a little and Maybe hand up the ton up and we'll just extract like requirements constraints from the statutes that govern You know What it takes to have a valid and enforceable but digital version of these instruments and then add those to the business and In some other I almost call it like sort of like social Requirements for the for the context in Mexico where the project is happening and then that'll help us brainstorm where the unique capabilities of blockchain might Make a very good fit a good value proposition as part of the design phase So this is an example of attempting if it works to to leverage the law not just as a source of constraint and You know something that you know, it's too bad for the entrepreneurs about the law because now they've got handcuffs and they can't do it They want rather Something enabling you've got it enabling and there's a lot of wisdom in the law I think including like the kind of features that you need for for bear instrument Well, you probably don't want to have indistinguishable copies that everybody has that would be like the double spend problem in a sense But for a different legal instrument, so and there are gonna be gaps aren't there? There's places where the legislation the law has not yet created certain instruments legal instruments or doesn't know of any That can cover everything Like for a gap Um Yeah, sure. Well, you were talking about bearer instruments You know, that's that's the kind of a financial product that has been created where you can the bearer Obviously can use that to transfer value or to vest value But the the law does have some rules about that but there are other things that are Rising and I'm thinking more broadly in relation to the blockchain Where the law doesn't really know what to say about certain things. Yeah, and you know, I suppose also one of the You know, sort of emergent conditions we can expect is new kinds of businesses new kinds of roles and relationships and that will if nothing else give rise for a need for Legal instruments that support and reflect, you know, the the kind of interactions that would be appropriate to conduct there So there will be gaps that emerge just because things keep changing But I have a feeling even if you do a linear extrapolation from the existing set of you know Legal instruments that we have now to blockchain. There's doubtless going to be some, you know, hard to predict set of conflicts gaps Duplications and you know everything in between so we just had kind of had got to get our Mop and bucket and our scrub brush and kind of just power through it You know one thing at a time. Yeah, and when the hackers get together as you will this evening Do you like to imagine that you're doing this as if this? Particular product is going to be released. It's real or is it better to continue to just conceptualize things and keep it quite Hypothetical, what's the best approach to getting the best out of everyone? You know, it depends on the context. So for this group It's absolutely the biases in favor of action and we like it when people have a purpose of actually there are either They have a company and they're trying to do something or a nonprofit and we're hacking right with them We hack with a lot of cities in this group, but we're we sit together with um, sorry, it's really dark here Thanks Okay, so now it's like now it's mood now. It's like mood lighting Yeah, but wait a minute. I'll use my phone for like that. Is that really creepy? Yeah, that is So these these people it's um it's action and and so those are the people we invite to hack with us and But there's something happening in April That's a really good example of that that would almost kill kill it for some people and so We're going to Vanderbilt Law School in April to do a legal hackathon with music city legal hackers It's terrific professor Larry Bridge Smith is hosting it with with folks and the access to justice oriented We have a day of blockchain and on Friday and Saturday is a hackathon But in addition hackathon, I'll be helping to run an unconference and so that's the idea of the unconference track is that people The bias is for talking. It's for analysis. It's for discussion design It's basically dialogue and you're like, you know, like maybe drawing on the board It could be as close we get to doing anything that I would regard as Engineering or you know like something that happened in time in space. I mean unless it's incredibly valuable And there's a number of people who've never not ready to hack basically I mean, it's just not culture. They're not tools yet But my hope is in the organizers hope is that we'll get a lot out of the unconference People will mix and mingle in in a variety of sessions learn a lot and they'll sort of see the people at tables just over yonder That are hacking and at the end of the day. Well, everyone will hear You know the magical things that people present at the end of a hackathon and I imagine like all of us They've been to one for the first time think oh my gosh Like we'll look at what they did and they'll consider that these people are not so unlike them and maybe they could do that Perhaps they'll come to another another thing and then they'll get big to hack as well as talk And I guess the idea there is you take all of these people who are high level sort of either interested Intelligent well researched Say to them don't be too strategic in your thinking try to be a little more natural It's a bit like playing theater sports, you know, if somebody tells you you're a bear be a bear You just play the game of thinking thinking out loud and then trying not to be too focused And that creates a space where people can be more liberal about what they talk about or what they think about Precisely, yeah, also like I first learned that I Was not suited to it coming out of law school and like a fairly stuffy kind of practice background Prosecuting and things but I first came to it at doing teaching some e-commerce classes in like mid 90s at MIT And it was in a design-oriented part of MIT where the media lab is and the process that People were taking us through a call surettes. Have you heard of a surettes before? No So it's a design process where it's like all the way what you're just getting at and the idea is you kind of brainstorm anything and just keep the brainstorms coming and It's almost sort of like an improv like When people you always say yes and kind of go with it no matter how dumb That's what I meant about theater sports. That's that's the whole idea with theater sports You don't block an idea you go with it. Exactly. Yeah, so yeah precisely that and so like kind of modulate back a little bit at At the unconference, but the idea is very much Yes, and and kind of noting things and then Sometimes at a good on conference like there's some great ones on online identity in California IW internet identity workshops from going for more than ten years and some of those will go when they're on a roll for Two three four hours sometimes when they're really doing things o off came from one of those on conferences And so did open ID and some other you know standards, which are really And so a bunch of things of you know standard contracts and other stuff and what you'll see there is after people have Been sort of undisciplined and brainstorm Sometimes a theme will occur that people want to Coher around and some people might not be into it. They use the law of two feet And they just walk to another session. No problem Yeah, and sometimes there's a transformation that occurs and people get kind of hacky or at least they get very focused But when I run them typically it's more like a cocktail party or something and like we have kind of interesting topic Everybody gets to talk, you know, we draw a few things and have a good time and kind of keep it moving Yeah, that sounds great. I'm thinking that that would be a really good format for our next meetup We've got one this evening, and I'm thinking something like that might be really good for next time Because we've all got to know each other quite well through our two face group groups But speaking of cocktails, I actually have to go and get the Refreshments for the evening. You better start talking now We could have talked for hours This is amazing and next time we must meet up and talk and create this kind of content with a bit of advanced notice So I could have a list of questions or we can go through mind you This has been this has been an un-conference of our own desert. Yeah, right. It has hasn't it? Yeah, and I guess when you know And and I just as we hope with these things I'm so much good has emerged from it So including an intention of maybe you'll try a format in your meetup and let me know how it goes I have never tried that format in a meetup before actually if it works Well, you know, maybe we could propagate it here a little bit too and hone it and and and most especially the the intention and the you know the shared interest in talking more and Maybe a little bit more organized way so we can get down into some of the topics that we that we that we share So I look forward to that pretty much and until next time I want to wish everybody at that at your hangout meet up You know hold down a terrific time tonight. I wish I was there with you in person But I'm glad we have this little spark of presence. You have been with us Dazza. You're the glue right in the middle. It's wonderful Go to bed it's late Thanks, bye now