 Governors hit back, say federal governments responsible for rising poverty and avoid emotion that can destroy or Bassenger urges Nigerians. This is PlusPolitics. My name is Nyam Gul Aghaji. Thanks for joining us. The Nigeria Governors Forum, NGF, has described the claim by the federal government that governors are responsible for the rising poverty and economic hardship in the country as baseless. The forum, which consists of the 36 state governors, attributed high level of poverty to the federal government's failure to provide adequate security for lives and property. The NGF reacted to the federal government's claim that governors are responsible for rising poverty and economic hardship in the country through a statement by the director of media and public affairs, Abdul Razak Belu Barkindo, on Saturday, December 3. Reacting to the federal government's claims, the governor said they were not to blame for the high rate of poverty in the country. Joining us to discuss this is the Governor's Chief Candidate of ADC in Aqaibom State and Opponabor Inko Taria, civil rights advocate. We're glad to have Opponabor join us at this moment. Hello and welcome to PlusPolitics. Good evening, Aghaji. Good evening, Nigeria. Okay, so let's just begin. How does this allegation sound to you? True or false? The federal government is placing the blame squarely on the shoulders of the governors. It's fallacious, so I mean not true at all, it's completely membership. First and foremost, I think when it comes to poverty and the land, the blame squarely rests at the duster of the president. This is a president that promised that they were going to turn around the refineries and that it would be failed to do. And if you also consider how much has been spent on exploration of good, exportation and importation, which is rationally inexplicable, you realize that so much has been spent on the crew. And that is as a result of the cabal involved in this oil, excuse me, cabal involved in the oil business. You have the cabal that the federal government is also complicit. And that is why in seven years, despite his promise that within months he's going to turn around the refineries, it has failed to soar. Then if you also talk of banditry, I mean the federal government is in charge of security. Yes, we do agree that the state have rules to play in terms of security. After all, the state governors also get their security votes, no doubt about that, which is also not accounted for, and I'm also quite against that, because security votes should be accounted for. Because security votes are not accounted for, the governors give any amount of life for security votes, something as much as five billion, some as much as six billion, to see what is in the credit. But the security, squarely lies at the hands of Mr. President, and that is also part of it, because it also affects food production. Most of the farm loans are resulted as a result of the security because of the adoption and heat mapping and feelings that have been going on. And we also talk of the refineries, like I said earlier, most of the companies are divestment, and we all know the consequences of divestment. When you talk of divestment, you find out that you have lots of jobs, and we all know the domino effect of lots of jobs. So the federal government is to be blamed. Not that the states are going to be insulated from any blame, not at all, but the majority of the blame should go to the federal government. So because you have the giant triplet of one insecurity, which is the case of banditry, the failure to turn around, the maintenance, and the inertia of the part of government to diversify their economy. So when you encapsulate all this, I encapsulate all this, in terms of political leadership, it's your complete failure on the part of the Sonia government to address the Nigerian problem. And when you have this problem, state it or not, no nation with such problems will survive it. And so the poverty rate has moved from almost double, from about 80 something or there about to about 100 something, 100, 30 something, 130 million. And the state governors, like I said, not that they would be completely submitted, but the federal government is a larger share of the blame. Okay, let me go to the second guest we have here, Ezekiel Nyaituk. You've just joined us. The federal government, let me pose the same question to you. The federal government has said that the state government is responsible for the level of poverty that we have in Nigeria right now. We'd like to also have your opinion, what your take is on that. Yeah, thanks for having me and my brother again. They are two sides to this coin, I will tell you. And each of them has a point. The very first thing is that when you talk in terms of poverty, it has to do with affecting people at the lowest level. And we have three tiers of government. You have the national or the federal government. You have the state government. The last tier being the local government. Unfortunately, the local government exists on paper. Effectively, the state government has handled the local government. Sorry, something has happened that is... Yeah, just go ahead. Go ahead. So just assume that, what do you call it? Assume that it's a phone call, okay? So the federal government, the state government has completely removed the local government from any form of relevance. And to that extent, that level of government that relates with the people is ineffective. So there's a disconnect. But then the state government will tell you that the federal government is responsible for the insecurity that has made the people unable to go to their farms, unable to do anything as a result. That insecurity is controlled by the federal government because they control the apparatus of the policing of the state. And to that extent, yes, the federal government is held liable. But all said, it's about passing the buck. The reality is that the two of them have failed. And I always bring up this. Let me end on this note. I always bring this up at all times. People, you know, my brother just told you that our poverty rates were effectively about 113 million out of a little over 200 million that are in abject poverty. Now these governments do not have an understanding of the essence of government and governance. I could never quote this enough. Chapter 2, section 14, subsection 2B states without any ambiguity what the matching order of government is. It states that the security and welfare of the people shall be the primary purpose of government. If you look at one, two, three words in that place, security and welfare of who? The people. When you talk of the people, you talk of the generality of the people and who are the generality of the poor? They are the poor. They are the physically challenged. They are the most vulnerable. They are the children. They are the women. They are the students. If the security and welfare of this group of people is the primary purpose of government and when you talk of primary, primary is an English word, foundational, the fundamental, the principal essence of government. Then you realize that we are running governance that really does not understand the matching order. Let me stop there for now. Yeah, but let me remain with you. Yes. You are going to become the governor of Aquabomb State under ADC and we're talking about the issue of security and governors always say that because security is a, what concerns the federal government, that's why they are not able to control. If you personally go into office as the governor of Aquabomb State, if you are lucky enough to get the votes of the people, will you also blame the federal government for the security or insecurity of your land or there's something you can do with whatever you have to improve security? This is an amazing question. I'll come with a very practical answer as to what I am doing in Aquabomb State. At the risk of sounding immodest, I think I'm one of the few Nigerians dead or alive that has come up with a political ideology. This political ideology is what I call social governance ideology which has seven fundamentals. Fundamental one says that social governance is a bottom to top approach to governance and development with the primary objective of bringing the citizens out of poverty. Now that clearly defines the matching order of governance that I just brought out, which is fundamental seven. It says that social governance is therefore the effective actualization of the common date of government as clearly stated in the Constitution that the security and welfare of the people shall be the primary purpose of government. Now this is the part I want to bring out. Fundamental six says that social governance believe in massive investments in the rural areas for their development and transformation. So in line with that, what am I doing? I am investing, investing $500,000 every month in every village for their development and transformation. Let me give you what the nexus is. Somebody will say, how bad, how are you going to do that? Number one, we have 2,226 villages in Akwaibom. And let me blow your mind. By the time you invest $500,000 in every village you have spent just about $1.1 billion. And guess what? This is about half of what the government takes in Akwaibom State as security vote. I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from now. Yeah, I'm listening. I'm listening. Yes, this is what I am using less than half or about half of what they call security vote. Imagine in your village that somebody invests $500,000 every month for four years. Now, it is not just investing. It's a well thought out and cut out plan. Number one, you have to open up all the village roads. Just grading. It costs next to nothing. Number two, you have to do a maintenance of that road through the families where the women maintain the roads and they are on stipends. Number three, there are old women in that village. There are widows. They cannot move out. They are very old. You put them on social security service even if it means paying them $5,000 per month. So what have I done? I've brought in $500,000 to stimulate the local economy. On account of that, there is going to be peace because people are now having a means of livelihood and don't have to do the rural urban migration. If anything, somebody that has been driving KK in Uyo is going to say, why don't I go back to my village? Why don't I go into farming? Because the roads are opened up and there's KK, what they call KK in each of those places. They can carry my cassava to the market and then I'll be able to have something doing because we have a marketing board that picks up all the produce. At the end of the day, I'm bringing very practical, very, very practical solution because when I say $500,000 per month in every village, everybody's like, oh, come on, it's not possible. But now when I broke it down, people are like, wow. You mean governors have been collecting so much money and cannot use half to invest this much? We are starting to have what we call celebrity governance that is coming into play. And I think that every governor should start thinking outside the box instead of saying, oh, I can't do anything. And yet you collect security votes every month. What do you do with the security votes, I ask? Well, that means what you have said is that it is still within... It's doable. Yeah, let me use that word. It's doable by the governors. They can do something about security and not trade games with the federal government. If you can't do something about security, why are you collecting security votes every month? Let me go to... Well, let's look at this. You said that, well, in fairness to you as well, you said that both of them are going to share the blame for this. But federal government is not as close to the people as the state government. You said that yourself. And like they say, every general is as good as his lieutenants because the people that are around him are the ones that are supposed to make him look good. Do you think the federal government has filled in any of the responsibility that is due to the state that is making the state to complain? Because we see the state going to the federal government every now and then and getting what we see as the need to put their states in order. But they still fail. Do you think that some things that the federal government should have done that they are not doing? Well, there is complicity and dereliction of duty on the part of the federal government. There is a complicity in the sense that when you talk of bandaging, when you talk of oil tests and when you talk of the refineries that are now working, these are responsibilities of the federal government because the federal government is inside the security if we have to go by the Constitution. Nevertheless, on that note, the federal government has been blamed it is also complicitous in terms of the insecurity that is going on in the country. I mean, I can give an example. For example, the former service chiefs where their successors came out to say they could not even account for their money and looked into the pockets of arms and ammunition. And these services we are not punished. They were not penalized. Rather, they were promoted and made ambassadors. So, which is an endorsement on the part of the federal government for their I would like to put it inefficient to keep the state. Now, if you also talk of the refineries it is necessary for the federal government to turn around those refineries and do a very large extent ensure that it creates an environment for oil companies rather than diverse for more oil companies to come into the country and that will also create employment. But then, just like my brother rightly said the states cannot completely be isolated from this place. Why I say that is because like I also said earlier you have the security votes. A government that is sensitive a government that is responsible and responsive a government that is solicitous for the welfare of these people will do things like my brother rightly said let's say for example you can't completely eliminate crime anywhere in the world even in the United States or America in Russia and so on you cannot completely eliminate it but you can abate it. Now, how do you abate it? There is so much hunger in the land and when a man is hungry I am not trying to justify it when a man is hungry it is such a various experience including crime to survive and that is what is going on. Security votes. Governors always have this bad understanding of security votes, you know and that is why a lot of them for men crisis, they stimulate the crisis as well with their security aid they see that security officers their agencies and so on because it has become a great victory. Now, they believe that whenever there is crisis that is when you now have need for security votes. Not at all. The security vote can also save up crisis. If, for example, you now take care use that security vote just like you write with them use that security vote to provide an enabling environment for the people in your state to go and to do businesses it will definitely reduce crime rates in that case. But most of the governments believe that the security vote is meant to purchase arms is meant to fight crime is that they want to understand what security vote is all about. It is called security vote in other words to combat crime and also prevent crime. That is why it is called security vote. But these governments today use that to feather or line their pockets they don't stand it on security. That is it. But like I rightly said both the federal government and the state government share in this belief. But majority stops at the door post of the federal government because it is the federal government that is in charge of security. You state are just titular security officer. A state governor can call on the permission of police to do it and if the commissioner for his life he will if it doesn't like he will not. The state governor has no powers, no virus no server to compel the CP to do whatever he wants to do. The army is not under his control. So he has excuse me his rights are circumscribed but if not even a right is more or less a privilege. So that is why it stops at the door step specifically at the federal government. But the state cannot be submitted permanently. The major things you highlighted both of you actually the functions of the federal government, things that they should have put in place like the refineries and also the fact that they own the security apparatus so the state government cannot do that. But the states or the ordinary man, let me not say the governors because I haven't heard them say that much are fighting for restructuring and part of the restructuring, the call for restructuring is the fact that everybody is talking about that every state should be able to control their own wealth as it were and doing so they will develop faster. But now we've seen a situation where for instance in the south south or the oil producing states we've heard that the Buhari administration gave the 13% derivation fund to all of them and for a lot of states we did not even see one thing that was being done to show that they collected the money. Do you think that states are strong enough, are ripe enough are mature enough to stand on their own if we should advocate for this restructuring and it really comes to pass. Do you think they can survive? Definitely. Oh, definitely. The states will survive. I said the parasitic states, you know but fortunately not in this country every state is blessed with one resource or the other. So the states will survive, well they need to do harness their resources and that is why we talk of restructuring, we talk of restructuring it has to start with from the legal aspect of where states will be allowed to explore and harness their resources until because every state is blessed with one major resource or the other. Now, I haven't said this, you see when you say the states have their monies yes, you might have the money you might not invest the money in the social, in the human capital development and what have you but you are now in charge of security and that is why we talk of restructuring now when you talk of restructuring that is where you have a central full gas system of government against a central system of government where the states, to a very large extent just like when you have the regions, to a very large extent will have the state police although the fear is that there are some tyrants who are governors and will abuse them but fine these are democratic princes here and there is nothing you can do about it gradually will also have very strong institutions that will ensure that the governors don't abuse the power. When you talk of restructuring for example now you have the regions if you realize where we have the regions the developers we are faster because there are some faster autonomy. Now the issue of the derivation we are talking about the reverse could have been the case it would have been the states having their monies and paying taxes to the center that could have been the case but most importantly I need to highlight this, most importantly it really really has to do with the character of the person in office. A situation where you have people with distorted perception of life accidentally distorted the political office you find that you are going to have these issues because a lot of them excuse me a lot of them are in office to load it over so it is no longer a situation of the governor it's now a relationship between a law master, an elite master and back of an elite server that is what you have right now you know once you are the governor you believe that okay you do have it. That shouldn't be the case and don't know what kind of life you are going to put into place it has to do with the character that person that is really elected into office he doesn't use up a second of life is different it's slanted and so when he gets into he thinks he is now gone you can imagine something governor is telling you I will do this I will do this you don't care me you can't find that kind of thinking so he believes that even the resources there belong to him and not to the people so he does whatever he wants to do sadly the state houses are selling and I refer to them as ministers of lawmaking because the state houses are selling they will never dare to go if the gt speaker does he will be in peace and remove the next thing any member will be suspended but no that's engineering so that is the problem we have so there is fear that when there is too much there is fear that when there is too much or if there is too much power in the states they could also abuse these bars like I just said it depends on the people that is number one number two the autonomy of the house of assembly is crucial and that's why I like to give us and so on it's evolving because what goes on right now is that the assembly that is supposed to that make them are selling is it right it is the government that will have the members of the assembly it is the government and also a junior the remover let me go to Ezekiel who is aspiring you are free to elect whoever you want and somebody there will be there in your own image and not somebody there will be there to represent the governor let me go to Ezekiel that is aspiring to become a governor we are talking about this autonomy here and it's something that may not happen even if you become the governor of Aquabomb state night may not happen in your tenor but there has to be a difference even when Nigeria was asking for independence some people were not ready so they had to delay it we know all this story you need to show walking before independence can come to you what can you do as a governor and what can your brother govern us if you are elected among others that will be elected and so on in May what can be done to show yes I want to start from restructuring and this might shock my brother a little bit I am not as enthusiastic about restructuring a lot of times as people would expect me to be I want to imagine an Aquabomb where there is no oil and as a result the agriculture that I undertake the federal government is taking nothing from me the ICT that is there and if you handle it well it would become a heavy money spinner it is there for you and the federal government is taking nothing from you so many factors the blue economy that is there within reasonable limits you have control over the setting level of what it is which allows you to explore the blue economy the federal government is not as passionate about it outside of the oil that we all think about and then of course the mineral resources where they are not even being bothered in the north of the day you are talking in terms of control of state police and I ask myself isn't it possible for me to get around I am talking about Aquabomb particularly I tend to think that these silver bullets called restructuring might come as the change that we expected from APC and at the end of the day you want a change when you see change so let's go to what can be done very fast now let's wrap up the very first thing is that we are having dogs that we are expecting to meow or cut that we are expecting to back the problem is not with the dog that cannot meow or the cat that cannot back the problem is with you because you are an individual who has the senses to know that a dog will always back and a cat will always meow and yet you want an ex-opposite why am I saying this you know the people that you are voting for right now is a campaign season you know when Buhari wanted to be president you saw that picture of him with Tosuta and Tai you also saw that picture of him in Igbo Regalia and nobody asked there to ask is this a man that dresses this way no, he dressed for the occasion which is to pick your vote and when he's picked your vote he's going to be who he's been so I think that the time has come when Nigerians should not react for the moment sentiment is as if there's a spell cast over the minds of people go and find out who Niai Tok has been over the past 20 years is he industrious is he somebody that believes in integrity is he an honest person is he somebody that's passionate about the people is he somebody that has been able to contribute to their face of state while he was just an ordinary citizen who Niai Tok has been before election is what who he will be after election and not who he is during election I think we need to open up and make sure that the people that we elect into power are the people who would like to wake up and see when the morning comes okay thank you thank you very much well gentlemen this is how we wrap up on this segment of the program I'd like to thank you for being a part of the program Ezekiel Niai Tok governorship candidate under the ADC for Acquire Bomb State and Mr. Opunabor Incotaria civil rights advocate I'm very very happy that you were able to make it to the program today thank you so much for coming it's a pleasure and thanks for having us okay so ladies and gentlemen thank you for staying with us we'll take a short break now and when we return we'll be taking a look at former president of the Obasanjo statement on emotions especially now that the last speaker just talked about voting with sentiments Obasanjo also said something about Nigerians choosing not to vote due to emotions and what may cause Nigerian political space a lot of stress tomorrow so let's take that break when we return we'll be talking with yet another guest who will be addressing this issue stay with us