 Aloha, my name is Mark Shklav, I am the host of Law Across the Sea program. Law Across the Sea program talks about lawyers going across the sea basically and also laws and lawyers bring a lot of things with them across the sea, not only their intellect and their scholastic achievements but they bring their culture, they bring their family background, especially to Hawaii where much of the lawyers come from across the sea or their culture or their family background comes from across the sea. As it did with me, I was born in Canada, my mother's family from Scotland, my father's family from Belarus and I continue to draw on parts of that culture and family background even today as a lawyer. Today we have a great guest, Justice Sabrina McKenna of the Hawaii Supreme Court. She's had an interesting trip across the sea with the law to Hawaii and I'd like to welcome her. Thank you Mark, thanks for having me. Well thank you for being here, it's great and I've really been looking forward to us getting together and talking and I have to ask you right off the bat, Justice McKenna, what can I ask justices of the Hawaii Supreme Court, what questions can I ask you? Well you're free to ask me anything as long as it doesn't concern a pending or impending case. As well as things that might constitute confidential deliberations within the court. So that's good for all of us to know, it's good for anybody that may want to ask you questions, you can refer them to this program and say, hey, follow that and you'll be okay. Well let me ask you first, I want to ask you a little bit about your trip across the sea, but first what do you do now, what is your job now as Supreme Court Justice, what kind of work do you do, what's that like? Well of course our primary function is to decide issues of law on appeal, we are the court of last resort, we determine issues of Hawaii law under the Hawaii Constitution or Hawaii statutes or county ordinances and of course we have the Hawaii common law. We also have additional functions that people may not be aware of, we are the rule making body, rules of practice and procedure pursuant to the constitution which have the force and effective law, the court makes the final decisions on what should be rules. Rules for? Rules of practice and procedure in the court. For lawyers? Lawyers and of course the public also, it obviously affects, we have so many people that don't come to court without lawyers so that these rules affect them also. In addition we are responsible for disciplining attorneys, of course we're also responsible for admissions to the bar, we decide what the criteria will be in terms of admissions, so we also are responsible for overseeing the bar and we also oversee judicial discipline also. Wow so that's quite a bit more than just sitting up in court. Oh and I should mention we also do some cases on original jurisdiction, extraordinary rits of mandamus or prohibition, as well as there are certain categories of cases that we have original jurisdiction, the main one being right voting issues, election issues. Which is pertinent. Yes. Right. By the way, any other types of cases that are? Well we also, we have a special procedure called the transfer procedure in which our intermediate court of appeals is, you have a right to appeal to the intermediate court of appeals. Appeals to our court are considered discretionary but in order to expedite matters and or if there are issues of first impression important public issues or constitutional issues, parties can petition to have the case automatically initially heard by our court and actually transferred to our court and not go through the intermediate court of appeals first. Okay. So we also do federal, we also do certified questions from the federal courts on hawaii law issues and there's a lot of stuff here. There's a lot of stuff out there. More than I thought, more than I knew about. I'm, you know, I know about appeals. Right. Right. Because I've had a few appeals. Right. And in the past and so I know that's the way but I didn't know but I guess in my back of my mind I kind of knew about all these other things but I didn't really realize that's your job description. That's a lot. There is. There's a lot of stuff that we deal with and it's really interesting. Okay. All right. I'm going to come back to that in a minute but I want to find out how you got to hawaii. Where were you born and what's your background? Sure. Well, I was born and raised in Japan, spent first grade in the Philippines. My father was in the civil service. My mother is civil service of the United States. Civil service of the United States. He met my mother in Hokkaido during the Korean conflict. He was an army officer at that time. And my mother was a friend of the provost Marshall whom she worked for. And so there was an introduction. There was an introduction and they started dating and the rest is history. But after the war, after Korea, my father took a job back in the Far East. He was an educator so he taught for the University of Maryland overseas. What was your father's name? Frederick James McKenna Jr. Very strong name. What was her name? My mother's maiden name was Tsuruha Shizue or Shizue Tsuruha American style. Okay. All right. So you were born in Tokyo? Yes, I was born in Tokyo and I grew up in my childhood in Tokyo and Yokohama. We lived in Yamate by the Minatonga Mirokakoen and the Horner Cemetery. Give us some idea. Where is that with respect to Tokyo and Yokohama? I love both cities. Yes. Yokohama is very close to Tokyo. It's like a port town. And the U.S. Navy had a presence there. Now everything got transferred to Yokosuka. But my father was an educator so he would go to different education centers at different bases, American military posts to teach psychology to American soldiers. And then he became the administrator of the education centers. And that's what he was doing when I was, my mother became a stay-at-home mom, a homemaker. And then my father died when I was nine of a heart attack. And then my mother went to work for the U.S. government as a local hire civil service. And she initially worked for the U.S. military hotel in Yokota Air Force Base. That's near Tokyo. Yes, it's west Tokyo. It's actually part of the Tokyo broader metropolis. And I graduated from high school there. Okay. Now, so your dad decided to stay in Japan. Yes. Something about Japan caught him. Well, I think he really liked Japan, but I think he liked my mother more. So I think it had a lot to do with my mother's happy wife. Very nice. And so I'm sorry that he passed away at a tender age for you, nine years old, but you decided to stay. Your mom decided to stay in Tokyo and that's where you grew up. Right. In fact, because my father's government benefits, she could have been transported to the United States, but of course, she had no family or home. And of course, she decided to stay and started working so that I could continue to attend U.S. military schools, DOD schools overseas. I see. And where was she from in Japan? She's from Hokkaido. Hokkaido. Okay. So she was from Hokkaido. That's why she was up there when they met and the introduction. I see. But then you've stayed in Tokyo. Yes. And then they ended up, well, we stayed in Tokyo. I graduated from Yokota Air Force Base High School and then I came to University of Hawaii. So that's how I came to UH. What was, okay. So you're in a foreign country. Yes. You're a young lady. So you're a foreigner. Yes. And are you treated as a foreigner? Do you feel like you're a foreigner? What's your life like in Tokyo? I mean, you have a Japanese mom. Yes. I understand your dad from the United States, but your mom is obviously having cultural input to your life. Of course. Of course. What was that like? Well, of course, especially after my father died. When I was very small, when I was a toddler, my father, he was an educated man. So I think he understood the importance and he understood that when I started attending American schools, I would pick up English. So that was not an issue. So he insisted that my mother speak Japanese at home. So Japanese was the language at home with my mother. Did he, I'm sorry, excuse me, did he speak Japanese? No, he didn't. But he, you know, when I was small, he was a hard worker and he spent a lot of hours at the office and a lot of hours at home working. And he was kind of a quiet man, not the most talkative of people. But what he would do is take me to all the sports games. He was really into sports. Okay. And we'd go to, we'd go to sporting events and we'd go to movies together. But my mother spoke Japanese to me at home. And so, yeah, I grew up totally bicultural. Did you learn both languages at the same time then, kind of simultaneously? Oh, no, no. English, Japanese was my first language. I did not learn English until I started school. I see. And when was that? Well, preschool, four years old, or something like that. I see. Okay. And so what, what, what, what was school like for you? I mean, well, I went to U.S. military schools. I don't remember when I started preschool, but my mother says the first day she was really worried because I didn't speak English. So she watched me from outside the window and she, the first thing that classed was sing a song and all the kids got up and were singing it. And she said, I was going, I had no idea. I didn't know the song, but I pretended like I knew the song. But you knew Japanese songs, right? Yes, yes, yes. And you knew cultural. But they were singing American songs in school. I see. Right. What type of things did, did you learn from, on the, the cultural side from your mom before you got involved with America and American culture? And continued to learn from my mother until she passed away in 97. But my mother was a very hard, she was a person that believed in hard work, honesty, education, of course, getting a good education, the importance of education, the importance of honesty. Her favorite, favorite saying was, which means when you're sitting under someone's pear tree, do not reach up to fix your hat. In other words, they might think you're trying to steal a pair. Appearances are important. Appearances. So it was my first lesson from childhood. Avoid appearances of impropriety. I can tell it stuck with you. Well, I, I try to remember that lesson that my mom taught me from childhood. Yeah. And she was also a very positive person to look on the positive side of thing. She was a little bit, you know, there's all these stereotypes. She was a little bit unusual in terms of being Japanese because she wasn't someone that insisted, you know, that a girl or a woman should be a certain way, although she did try to make me take a tea ceremony and flower arrangement and, and teach me how to sew. And I never got. But she tried to make you do it. She tried to make me do it. Did you, you went to classes? No, I didn't. I didn't. I said, no, I don't want to do this. Yeah. So you went to high school. Yes. And I have a feeling that your dad got you involved in sports. Yes. In high school. Tell us a little bit about that and what that was like being a Japanese howly girl in this military school with sports. What was that experience like? Well, yes. So my first couple years of high school was at a different high school called Johnson. It's since closed and then Yokota was opened my senior year. But well, first of all, remember back then girls couldn't play full court in seventh and eighth grade. We couldn't play full court basketball. My father used to take me to the games and I was one of the kids at half time. I would go shoot, try to shoot. And I really didn't pick up basketball until like eighth grade because, you know, growing up back then this is before title nine. So there was really no girls sports organized sports at all. But I did was able to play in high school. But my team had a couple mixed race Asians and mixed Asian American like me. And we had this is a U.S. military base. So we had many African American players too. So when I played in high school I was point guard. I was five, six still. But I was point guard. I see. Right. Okay. And I have a feeling that basketball may have been a way that you dribbled your way across the Pacific to Hawaii. But but I want to ask you about that. Well, we're going to take a little break. Okay, sounds good. And then I want to ask you a little bit more about how that's how you got here, which I think it was. Actually, it's not how I got here. Okay, we'll be back. Okay. Thanks. Thank you for watching Think Tech. I'm Grace Chang, the new host for Global Connections. You can find me here live every Thursday at 1 p.m., where we'll be talking to people around the islands or visiting the islands who are connected in various aspects of global affairs. So please tune in and Aloha and thanks for watching. Thank you, Hawaii, Asia in reveal. I am Johnson Choi, the host. I'm looking forward to see you next month, December 15, Thursday, 11 o'clock, right here again. Hello, I'm Marianne Sasaki. Welcome to Think Tech, Hawaii, where some of the most interesting conversations in Honolulu go on. I have a show on Wednesdays from one to two called Life in the Law, where we discuss legal issues, politics, governmental topics, and a whole host of issues. I hope you'll join me. We are back with Justice McKenna, and we're talking about sports in a way, and I asked her how she got to Hawaii, and I'd like you to just tell me how you got to Hawaii and what sports played with it or any part of that. Okay, well, one of the reasons I came to Hawaii for college is because my parents used to love it here, visiting, and my father's dream was to retire teaching at the University of Hawaii, and he was buried at Punchbowl, and I knew that my mother would eventually join him, which she did in 97. So I came to UH, and actually I just walked on and tried out for the Wahine basketball team, which was a new team at the time, and I walked on and I made the team, and I was given a scholarship. So it was wonderful. This was, you know, thanks to Patsy Takamoto-Mink and Title IX. You've got to explain that, and what year was this by the way? 74 is when I started at UH, but 72 is when Title IX passed. So you had no preconceived notion about the team? Well, I didn't even know, when I was applying to UH, there was no team, and so, but when I came here, our team had been formed, and so I was informed that there was going to be tryouts, so I did try out, and back then there was no high school girls basketball in Hawaii, and so because I had played, you know, and they hadn't recruited anybody, so I got really lucky. I also think the fact that you played on the base was very helpful from what you said earlier, because it sounds like you had a lot of kids there that played the sport. Oh, we played a league. We played in a league. We played against other US military schools and Japanese schools. That's very interesting, you know, to think that Japan basketball led you to UH. Oh, the Japanese high school girls were really good, and I actually also played on the US military women's team, because back then, dependents could play because they didn't have enough women. But yeah, Title IX was co-sponsored by Patsy Takimoto, meaning Congresswoman from Hawaii, and basically says that any educational institution receiving federal funds cannot discriminate on the grounds of sex, and so up until then, UH didn't have women's sports, so they had to start offering scholarships to women's athletics. But the more important aspect of Title IX is, of course, education, because remember that in 1972, only 9% of US medical school graduates were women, and only 7% of US law school graduates were women. So that was the huge effect in the area of education. Wow. And so that kind of got, your parents liked Hawaii. Yes. Okay, so that's a fact that kind of put that in your mind. When you were in Japan, did they talk about Hawaii? Oh, yes. We visited Hawaii several times when I was a child, and in fact, the summer after the summer, my father died in March, that summer we were scheduled to come back and visit Hawaii again. I see. And then so you decided to come here and go to school? Yes. As part of just the love that your parents had for Hawaii. Yes. Yes. All right. Now, how did you get involved in law, and how did that transpire? From playing basketball, girl from Japan? Well, I didn't think that I wanted, I didn't go to college thinking I was going to be a lawyer. I, toward the end of college, I thought I was going to be an interpreter, Japanese-English interpreter. I did some interpretation and translation while I was in college. But then I decided that I kind of wanted to have more of my own voice. And then my cousin's husband thought that law school would be good for me. He was a 77 law school graduate. Can I ask who that is? Kent Keith. Oh, okay. And also, but Marilyn Moniz Cahol Hanoharo. Kent Keith, I know from high school, by the way. Oh, my God. Roosevelt. Okay. He was, he came, yeah. I met him through high school. Oh, great, great. We didn't go to the same high school, but I met him because he, well, he was a very exceptional student. Oh, yes. Definitely. And Marilyn Moniz Cahol Hanoharo, who was a Broderick Award winner, volleyball player at UH, went to law school. And then what it was, when I really realized that it was Title IX that enabled me to get the scholarship. And I thought about the power of the law. And I thought, you know what, law might be really good for me. So that's when I decided to apply to law school. Okay. And what happened? What happened next? Well, I went to law school. I graduated in 82. I worked for a firm, Goetzel Anderson Quinistiefel, for about five years, civil litigation. But I also started representing some of the Japanese clientele because the firm had merged with Kashiwa Kashiwa and Kato. And I, the Kashiwa's asked, and Rascato asked me to start helping with the Japanese clientele because of my language abilities. And then one of our existing firm clients asked me to go in-house, his name is Yukio Takahashi. And I served for three years during the bubble economy of the late 80s, traveling around the world with the owner of this Japanese company, making different investments worldwide. And it was just a wonderful experience. But after about three years, I just really, really burned out. And at that point, I decided it was time for me to give back to Hawaii. And I thought, how could I use my experiences in a way that would contribute to Hawaii? And then I thought about being a judge, which is something that I had thought of my first year in law school when my adjunct professor was appointed to the bench. And that adjunct professor was Simeon Akoma, who I later got to join on the Hawaii Supreme Court. So what did you think? I mean, what did you think about your background that would help you be a judge? Well, I thought, you know, Hawaii has this, so many different people. Hawaii and the other thing, when I was a basketball player, I had native Hawaiian teammates whose families really took me under their wing and honied me. And just I really came to appreciate Hawaiian culture also. And just the giving and the different mix of people here. And I thought that perhaps with my background, and also I also, having done civil litigation, but also having traveled around the world, I thought that my mix of background and interest and also the way I grew up, knowing what it's like to go from upper middle class to lower middle class suddenly in your life and to see how people are treated differently based on socioeconomic status after my father died and how a single mother struggles, all of those things combined. I thought maybe I could bring this background to contribute to the people of Hawaii. And I thought, how could I do that? And I thought maybe judging would be a great way to be able to do that. And so I hear you saying too that differences actually bring us together. And there's lots we have in common through our differences. I know that's the strange thing to say, but that's kind of what I hear you saying in a way. Right, exactly. And I thought that, you know, my background is a way that can bridge these different gaps and bring, you know, different perspectives to the bench. So what has been your experience as a judge? What have been your steps as a judge? Okay. Well, the first time I applied, I didn't make the list. And so, but I was very fortunate to become an assistant professor at the law school. So I did that for two and a half years. But the second time I applied, I made the list. And then Chief Justice Moon appointed me to the district court. A year and a half later, Governor Cayetano appointed me to the circuit court. So on circuit, I did criminal family domestic violence. And then I did civil for 10 years. And then the last a year and a half, I was the senior judge of the family court, helping the move of family court from town to Kapolei. By the way, is there any class to become a judge? I mean, is there any, do you get, all of a sudden just get put down and you're a judge? Well, okay. So the way it works is, you know, under the Hawaii Constitution, and each state is different, as you know, but under the Hawaii Constitution, you have to have five years of experience to be district or family, 10 years of experience as an attorney or a judge to be circuit and above. And, and of course, you have to, those are the constitutional qualifications. But other than that, you apply the Judicial Selection Commission, boil it down to four to six names, more possibly for district court, and then the appointing authority chooses and boom, and boom. And then you are appointed. And then once you start, once you're appointed, I think what almost all of us do is during the time that we're going through confirmation, and hopefully we will be confirmed by the Senate, but during that time we're getting ready, what we will do is go observe, do a lot of reading, talk to different people. We do a lot of our own studying and preparing. And then once you do start, of course, there's, judges will instruct you and help assist you and you get to observe for a while. So there is a help within the, within the system? It's not like you're throwing in on your first day. On your own. But, you know, and then you're assigned a mentor. But of course you have natural mentors that you might call when you have questions. I want to ask you, we're coming to the end, but I want to ask you a couple questions. Do you like being a justice? I love it. It's a true honor, truly honored. And I've noticed, because I've witnessed you with some interaction with Japanese lawyers and students, a couple things. First of all, that you play the ukulele, right? I can't say I really play the ukulele. I grew up playing piano, and then my mom, when I was 10, told me to take guitar lessons, because she said, you can't take a piano with you. So, but the, you know, the first four strings on the guitar, if you can play those chords, then you can play, you can fake ukulele for chords. Like the C chord, the first four strings on a guitar is an F chord on the ukulele. So you can play songs if you can play the guitar. Did you learn Japanese songs? Of course, I, well, yes. I grew up singing Japanese songs as a child. And of course, my mother, my mother had a beautiful voice. She loved to sing. I see. I'm beginning to see now where some of this comes from in your background. Great advice to her. You can't take it with you. I mean, she was thinking, how are you going to relate to people? How are you going to make friends? There, I mean, there's a great saying. I've never heard that before, but it just makes so much sense. Well, it was great. When I first came to Hawaii, there was no karaoke. So it was just a guitar, and I would just jam with all my local friends. Do you have a favorite Japanese song? I do. I do. It was the one that my mother used to sing. It's called Konomichi, This Road. And what, can you give us a little English translation of what it is? This is a road we've traveled before. I think it's siblings. I interpreted it as siblings talking. Ah, that's right. The cashews were in bloom. That hill we've seen before. That's right. Look, it's the white tokei-dai tower. It's in Sapporo, so that was where my parents had their first date. They walked by it. And then the last, the third versus my favorite, this is a road we've traveled before. So that's right. We were riding on mother's carriage. That's beautiful. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for going with us on this little trip across the sea. Thank you very much.