 IDF says Hamas was working on long-range cruise missiles and had help from Iran. I'm Albert Lewitton at the I-24 news desk in Tel Aviv. Welcome to our viewers around the world. It is Sunday, January the 7th, day 93 of the war. Within the past hour, the IDF says troops operating deep in Gaza City have discovered technological equipment, including components used by Hamas to build long-range missiles, the rocket and engine warhead of a cruise missile, in fact. The thing is, until now, no one thought Hamas could do this, and the IDF says what else was found? Iranian guidebooks. It's still unclear at what stage these weapons were being developed and whether they were operational. In Gaza City right now, in Gaza, heavy battles between IDF forces and Hamas' elite Nukbak death squads, the Golanian combat infantry, are fighting a series of battles. Targeted airstrikes have been eliminating the Hamas fighters. And now moving on to the West Bank. A police officer was killed when Border Patrol police entered Genine to conduct a counter-terror raid. The funeral for 19-year-old policewoman Shai Gamai is being held right now with full military honors. She was killed and three of her fellow officers were wounded when a roadside bomb was detonated as their vehicle passed. It was an ambush. The soldiers attempting to rescue the injured were then attacked by Palestinian Islamic Jihad gunmen who threw explosives at the Israeli troops. An attack helicopter eliminated those terrorists. Six of them were killed. In Qatar right now, American Secretary of State Antony Blinken is meeting with Qatari Emir Sheikh Tamim al-Tahani. This is part of the tour trying to calm things down in the region. But things remain tense on the northern border. Actor Hezbollah shot 60-plus missiles across to Israel yesterday and the Israeli Air Force responded with lethal action. Well now it seems the US Defense Intelligence Agency has leaked an assessment saying that Israel would be stretched too thin across too many fronts, some of them in fact, that this is what will happen now that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel though can handle all of it. I suggest that Hezbollah learn what Hamas has already learned in recent months. No terrorist is immune and we are determined to protect our citizens and return the residents of the north safely to their homes. It is a national goal shared by all of us and we act responsibly to achieve it. If we can, we will do it in diplomatic ways. And if not, we will act in other ways. We have team coverage of every angle of the story. First let me come into studio now with Avi Paz and the former Israeli Ambassador to France and to Italy. Thanks so much for joining us. Your Excellency, let me ask you a question about Secretary of State Blinken coming to Qatar. It's an important move for him. What do you think he's expecting the Qataris to do? First of all, I must stress that there are very close ties between US and Qatar. We know that the US has a military base, the biggest military base of the United States in the Middle East is in Qatar, confronting Iran. So then there is a Qatari role in trying to liberate our hostages, which is very important. Now it is very complicated because at the same time Qatar is one of the strongest supporters of the Hamas. So it's a very delicate situation for everybody. For Blinken, there is no problem. As I told you, United States, Qatar, good relation. The problem is us. How do we deal with Qatar? How do we see Qatar? It's a hostile country, first of all. Today it's a hostile country. You know there were times in the 19th when we had the diplomatic representation in Qatar. After the Oslo agreement, we did have, or the Madrid agreement, better say, we did have a diplomatic representation there. Then things soured and Qatar went the other way. Qatar now is very close to the Muslim brothers everywhere. This is why their ties with Egypt are not good because the Egyptians don't like the Muslim brother. We have a problem with Qatar because of their support of Hamas. At the same time, we need them. We need now the Qataris in order to negotiate the release of our hostages. You actually see one of the things that was important is that the families of the hostages went to go meet with the Emir of Qatar. That's a really important moment. Yes. The fact that the Emir of Qatar is ready to see the family of the hostages is important and indicates the seriousness of Qatar in trying to negotiate. It's unusual. I mean, I don't know if everybody in Qatar or in the Arab world liked the scene of the family of the hostages meeting with the Emir of Qatar. But Qatar wanted to signal we are serious. We are trying our best. By the way, they tell us now that after the death of Erdogan in Lebanon attributed by foreign sources to Israel, there is now difficulties, more difficulties in the negotiation to liberate the hostages. And they find the Hamas very, very sour on the idea. So we add one more thing for the agenda for Secretary of State Blinken to do when he meets with the Emir right now, I imagine. But the Secretary of State is also in a very difficult position having gone to trying to get some things to calm down at the northern frontier with Lebanon. Yes. This, of course, one of the main subject, but he's not, by the way, he's not going to Lebanon. Right. Blinken will not be going to Lebanon. It is Amos Orstein, another who is making the shuttle between Jerusalem and Beirut trying to calm the things down. But tensions are very high, are very, very high. And there is no doubt in my mind that Blinken tries also to tell the Qataris to do every effort possible in order of the situation, not to worsen, not to escalate on the border between Israel and Lebanon. Blinken has a lot of work on its plate in this visit. But does he hold power with the Lebanese? Does he hold power with, I mean, that seems to be the simmering front is the north right now. Does he hold enough power where he can say to everyone in Lebanon, whether it's the Hezbollah, the proxies, whether, and this is more for Hashir to do more than anything, but he will report up to Blinken. Is there enough for the Americans to have that sway up there? You know, Lebanese is a very divided country. And the Americans don't talk to the Hezbollah. There's no, absolutely no ties, no contact between American and Hezbollah. They talk to shadow Lebanese government because also there's no government in Lebanon. So it's very difficult for the Americans. So I would say that their influence in Lebanon is limited. But there's no other country. Maybe France has some, not much, but some influence in Lebanon. It's very difficult in Lebanon because actually it's the Hezbollah today who rules Lebanon, not officially. Officially, you should have a president. You don't have a president. You should have a government. You don't have a government. So to say that somebody yield some influence in Lebanon, very difficult to say. Ambassador Averhaes, I'm going to have you hold on for one second because there's things moving on in the southern front of Israel right now. We have team coverage of every angle of the war. Let's first begin with the I-24 news correspondent, Pia Stachowak. She's got the latest from the southern front. It is a tense come after an eventful day yesterday on Saturday, Hezbollah fired at least 40 rockets onto different areas in northern Israel. Hezbollah claims to have targeted an Israeli army base in the Mehron region, saying that it was targeting specifically its aerial surveillance systems. The Israeli army has not commented on that incident, but this is a new level of escalation that was reached. Hezbollah is saying that this is the initial response to the assassination, alleged Israeli assassination of Hamas leader Salah al-Aroori in Beirut last week, and that there is more to come. Israel is on very high level of alert. The Israeli military has been striking Hezbollah positions in southern Lebanon, such as infrastructure and weapons depots also this morning. Now the question is, how will the situation here in the northern front develop? We're three months into the war with Gaza, but also the northern front has been very much uneasy. Not only is there rocket fire, but also on a very daily and regular basis, the anti-tank missiles and motor shells that are targeting the Israeli communities. Now in a range of five kilometers away from the border, the communities are evacuated. Also those communities that you can see behind me, many of them are not even accessible for civilian movement because there's an imminent threat of those motor shells and anti-tank missiles being sent over this mountain range from southern Lebanon. Now it seems as to the region does not have any interest in a wider escalation. We've been hearing over the weekend from the caretaker Lebanese prime minister Najib Mikati saying that he is not interested in a renewed war with Israel. Also Israel is not interested in having a two-front war. However, we do know and this is also what we're hearing from the Israeli defense establishment that Hezbollah needs to be pushed away from the border to enable the residents, the thousands of evacuees, to return to their homes because many of them are demanding a substantial solution to push Hezbollah substantially away from the border and to eliminate the threat that Hezbollah has been posing even before this war and is expected to continue to pose if the situation is not treated the way that residents especially are demanding. Now after yesterday's escalation and after Hezbollah leader Hassan Asrallah vowing that there is more to follow in terms of attacks on Israel, residents and also obviously the Israeli military and defense establishment are viewing the developments here in the north with great concern. This is P.H. Dekalbach reporting for I-24 News from the Israel-Lebanon border. I'm rejoined back in studio without the positive, the former ambassador to Italy and to France. As Pia mentioned, Pia was on the southern, on the northern front with South Lebanon, the southern Lebanon. I tripped up because I wanted to ask you a question specifically about that. It's because of UN resolution 1701. Can you explain to our viewers exactly what that resolution is? Yes. The resolution 1701 was voted by the Security Council of the United Nations in 2006 after the Second Lebanese War and it stipulated that the Hezbollah will be deployed north of the Litani River. The Litani River is a river that runs parallel to the Israeli border, about 27 kilometers from the border. And that in southern Lebanon, there would be no Hezbollah presence. This is a stipulation by that. And there would be an international force, UNIFIL, which would enforce this. So for some years, this worked. This 1701 worked this resolution. And the UNIFIL was filled with peacekeeping. They wore helmets. They had berets. Yes, absolutely. Peacekeeping force of the United Nations. There were about eight or nine countries taking part, including European countries. I mean, it was a force, but they are very ineffective because you cannot expect them to fight for us. For some years, Hezbollah maintained that, followed that. In the last two, three years, we saw a slow infiltration of Hezbollah. I mean, they were not armed at least not, you could not see that they're armed. A slow infiltration of the Radawan force of the Hezbollah. What is the Radawan force? It's their commander force. And they were threatening to do exactly what the Hamas did to us on the 7th of October, meaning that the Radawan force would cross into Israel, would destroy villages, would occupy land, would take prisoners. This is what they said. And just as our viewers know, there wasn't a fence or a wall built the same way that it's built along the West Bank or built along Gaza. Not even a fence, in fact, there were blue barrels. And the blue barrels and a blue line, you could basically write it like a graffiti line. And that was considered the border. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, you know that the fence didn't help much in Gaza, by the way, and in parenthesis. But we, our security was based 2006. It's now 17, 18 years. I mean, it was based on that resolution 1701. And the reason I bring this question up, Mr. Baster is because I don't know to whom do you enforce this with the 1701? A lot of people are saying, oh, it needs to be enforced. It needs to be enforced. You don't have a Lebanese government, you don't have a Lebanese government to speak of. It's controlled by Hezbollah. Hezbollah is not a state, it's not a country, so they are not party to this resolution. It's just paper, it seems like. Am I correct? You are very correct. And this is why there must be also in Lebanon a government. And there must be a president. And this is a package deal. When we say that we want everybody to act according to 1701, there must be a Lebanon. There must be a government in Lebanon. This is also one of the worries of Blinken, of the Americans, of the Europeans, that there is no government. This is why we may be forced to employ other means to assure our security, because maybe we cannot return to 1701. As an ambassador, that's a very diplomatic way of saying that other means meaning military. Absolutely, absolutely. Military, by the way, military pressure is also necessary in order to get, if we get 1701 back. But we must be ready to apply, I'm now speaking not in diplomatic words, we must be ready to apply military pressure on the Hezbollah to force the Hezbollah behind the Littani River. But these are much stronger, these are, this is a much stronger force than Hamas. Stronger than Hamas, yes. I would say about twice or three times Hamas. And what is especially worrying about the Hezbollah is the enormous amount of rockets and missiles that they have. It is said that they have about 150,000 missiles. Some of them can reach every point in Israel. Some of them are even precision missiles. I mean, I am sure that Israeli has answers also to that. But Hezbollah is something guys. But you see, look, take the Hamas. We are now three months in a war and we still have not finished with Gaza. We knew it would take time. We knew that. Because these terrorist organizations are so entrenched. Everything is under the earth. Everything is in tunnels. Everything is mined. Everything is booby trapped. Same with Hezbollah. If we go to a military confrontation with Hezbollah, we will win the war. But it won't be easy. The idea first is to do diplomatic. Exhaust all diplomatic beliefs first. Let me point out that as we've been reporting American Secretary of State Anthony Blinken is doing shuttle diplomacy through the Middle East. If I can tell our viewers he visited Jordan, Crete. He's going to be here in Israel in the West Bank on Tuesday and Wednesday. He has a very full agenda. I want to bring a report now by senior diplomatic correspondent Owen Alterman. If it's Sunday, this must be Jordan. As US Secretary of State, Anthony Blinken jets through Amman on his tour of the Middle East here, meeting with Jordan's King Abdullah. This after stops in Turkey and Greece and before stops in Qatar, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Israel, the West Bank and Egypt. These are not necessarily easy conversations. There are different perspectives, different needs, different requirements, but it is vital that we engage in this diplomacy now. Blinken is juggling at least three balls. The first one, preventing all out war in Israel's North, doing what he can to incentivize Hezbollah to get to yes on a diplomatic agreement that allows Israelis to return to Northern communities feeling safe. Here, Blinken is part of a larger Western push. It is imperative to avoid the regional escalation in the Middle East. It's absolutely necessary to avoid Lebanon being dragged into a regional conflict. And the second juggling ball, the war in Gaza itself, where Blinken will continue to push Israel to lower civilian casualties, up the flow of aid and move on to the next phase of the war. And then the third ball, Gaza's day after, where Blinken has now laid out some of the clearest American thinking yet. And we also talked about the role that Turkey can play, both in the day after for Gaza in terms of the challenging questions of governance, Palestinian life governance, security, rebuilding. So the United States is moving to bring in Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to help Rangaza. How does Israel feel about that? Blinken will presumably find out. Israel is stop seven on his tour. I'm joined back in studio again with Ambassador Avi Paz and the former ambassador to France and to Italy. They mentioned the idea that the Turks would somehow get involved in Gaza is a new part of the equation here. How? Why? The Turks have not exactly been so warm and friendly to anybody in the area. If you ask me if I were the Israeli government, I would not accept the idea. Never ever. And the Erdogan, I mean, there can be another Turkey once. There was another Turkey. There will be another Turkey. Turkey and the Erdogan, a role in Gaza. God forbid. God forbid. No. You know, Erdogan is the man who compared Netanyahu to Hitler four days ago. How can he have a role in Gaza? That's an enemy of Israel. He himself, not Turkey. Turkey is a country with whom we can have good ties. We had good ties. We can have good ties. We will have good ties, I hope. And the Erdogan, I would never allow any Turk in Gaza or anywhere else in our conflict. They are on the side of Hamas. Completely, 100%. More than any other Arab. They are not an Arab country, first of all. They are a Muslim country. They are not. There is no Arab country who is so much engaged with the Hamas, a part of Qatar, but something else. They're Turkey. How can I don't understand that proposal? I tell you, if I would advise the Israeli government and say no. But isn't the whole idea of negotiation is that you have two parties who want to get to some sort of common ground? So if you have to negotiate with someone you don't like, it's the only way you're going to get anywhere. But you have to have a minimum of trust with somebody, even if you don't like him. Can we trust Erdogan? I mean, how many times did we negotiate with Erdogan in the last, take the last 13 years, three times he broke of diplomatic relations, recalled ambassadors, throw any insult possible at Israel. Then suddenly, ah, yeah, yeah, you are my good friend, Mr. Bennett, you are my good friend, Netanyahu, I meet you at the UN. And then, yeah, Netanyahu is no better than Hitler. You cannot do business with a man like that. You cannot do business. I wouldn't advise. When you have negotiation, you have to have a minimum of understanding and to credibility on the other side. Here, you don't have. I mean, you have other countries that can play a role in Gaza. All right, let's talk about the other countries. What are the other countries? Who would you go to? If you're in this position, you've dealt with almost every country in the region yourself personally. Who do you go to first? First, I would take Arab countries, you would be surprised. I would take Arab countries who do have diplomatic relations with Israel or who are ready to have diplomatic relations with Israel and give them a role in Gaza. Yes, Arab countries like Egypt, Jordan, the Emirates, Bahrain, maybe Saudi Arabia. I trust more Saudi Arabia today than I trust Turkey even though we don't have relations with them. So I could imagine another configuration of Arab states having a role in Gaza. Security, I think, would be assured by Israel. But having a civilian role in Gaza, I could imagine that very well. There was a report today that actually Egypt was somehow looking to get involved in a post-conflict Gaza of some sort. But for years, if anybody, they never opened the gates, they told everyone, we're not accepting the Palestinians, what you're smiling at. No, but I was in David in the negotiation with Sadat, begging Sadat negotiation. You know that begging offered Sadat a role in Gaza, not a role to rule Gaza. Sadat, that was back in 78, 79. Didn't want to touch it with a 10-feet pole. So that's why I'm laughing that today the Egyptian would be ready to play a role in Gaza. I think Israel would welcome that very much. Really? But do you think Al-Sisi would actually go for something like this? I don't know. Look, I cannot speak on his behalf. I don't know. I read the same report that you did. There are rumors. I don't know. To tell you the truth, if I would be Al-Sisi, I would be very hesitant to touch this zone. He has enough with his own Muslim brothers in Egypt also to have to deal with those in Gaza. But maybe there is American pressure on Egypt. But it doesn't play well on the streets. It doesn't play well on the streets of Turkey. It doesn't play well on the streets of Egypt. It doesn't play well on the streets of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. I mean, you know, as you said yourself, you know, when you negotiate, you have to reach a compromise and you have to reach the best compromise possible. And I know it doesn't play well. A lot of Israeli will oppose. You know, you have Israeli who want to re-establish a settlement in Gaza. And look at Ben Gviren's hatred. They say the day after, when you ask them, what are you going to do the day after, they say, we are going to resettle Jews in the Gaza Strip. So the Israeli would don't like the idea to see an Arab force, any Arab force in Gaza. And the Arabs were very hesitant to play a role. But somebody will have to be there. And it won't be the Hamas because the Hamas will lose its grip on Gaza when the war is over. Is there a way, Mr. Ambassador, that the Israelis or maybe even the U.S. can basically say to the Arab forces, whether it's UAE or Saudi Arabia or any of the other ones, when this is over, there's a place for you to rebuild, to help rebuild. From a business perspective, you can have Dubai on the Mediterranean if you'd come in and help fix it and clean it up. Yes, I do think so. You know, there was a time that people were speaking about Gaza as a Singapore of the Middle East. You know, why not? I mean, look at small countries, look, okay, Dubai and Qatar and Abu Dhabi, they have oil, they have gas, they have, that's different. They have the money. But Gaza, look at what they've been able to do. I mean, you know, it's quite incredible. Build 500 kilometers of tunnels. I mean, those are people that are able to do things. You understand what I mean? Believe me, there's a joke in this sense that they could build tunnels like this. Imagine what they could have built with the concrete use of the tunnels. Exactly, exactly. I mean, instead of building tunnels, instead of engaging terror, take all this energy you have there. And you do have the energies in Gaza. And put it to work in something which brings you dividends, dividends of peace, dividends of a good economy, of a fruitful industry. You can do that. But again, first condition, take the Hamas out of Gaza. Well, first condition is get the Israeli hostages back home. Let's talk about that. Of course. Then you do rule number two, take care of militarily, take care of Hamas so that that doesn't become a threat anymore. And then I guess this is where my question has to do with, in terms of what the American pressure is to have a plan. And it seems as though, in the one minute that we have left, it seems as though there was not necessarily a book in the back of the room, the Kariyat that says, okay, when this is over, here's what happens. We still, Israel still doesn't have an idea on the day after, twice. There would have been a discussion in the government. And twice it was postponed, once because it had to be dealt with first in the war cabinet and then to go to the full cabinet. And when they went to the full cabinet, there was a discussion about guns. But yes, we have to think and to present our ideas for the day after, because you know what? If we don't present our ideas, others will do it for us. Very great point. Avi Pazzo, the former Israeli ambassador to France and to Italy. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much. You can get the very latest Thon I-24 on TV, online streaming and get push alerts on your phone when things break. I'm Albert Lewitsim reporting from Tel Aviv. The news continues. Israel is in a state of war. Families completely done down in their beds. We have no idea where is she. As our soldiers are fighting on the front line, but the general perception is something that certainly needs to to be fought as well. Dozens of correspondents throughout the world brings the truth from Israel to hundreds of millions of people in scores of countries. Completely done down in their beds. Bringing Israel's story to the world on 24 news channels, now on Hot. IDF says Hamas was working on long-range cruise missiles and had help from Iran. I'm Albert Lewitsim at the I-24 news desk in Tel Aviv. Welcome to our viewers around the world. It is Sunday, January the 7th, day 93 of the war. Within the past hour, the IDF says troops operating deep in Gaza City have discovered technological equipment, including components used by Hamas to build long-range missiles, the rocket and engine warhead of a cruise missile, in fact. The thing is, until now, no one thought Hamas could do this. And the IDF says what else was found? Iranian guidebooks. It's still unclear at what stage these weapons were being developed and whether they were operational. In Gaza City right now, in Gaza, heavy battles between IDF forces and Hamas's elite Nukbak death squads, the Golanian combat infantry are fighting a series of battles. Targeted airstrikes have been eliminating the Hamas fighters. And now, moving on to the West Bank. A police officer was killed when border patrol police entered Genine to conduct a counter-terror raid. The funeral for 19-year-old police woman Shai Gamai is being held right now with full military honors. She was killed, and three of her fellow officers were wounded when a roadside bomb was detonated as their vehicle passed. It was an ambush. The soldiers attempting to rescue the injured were then attacked by Palestinian Islamic Jihad gunmen who threw explosives at the Israeli troops. An attack helicopter eliminated those terrorists. Six of them were killed. In Qatar right now, American Secretary of State Antony Blinken is meeting with Qatari Amir Sheikh Tamim al-Tahani. This is part of the tour trying to calm things down in the region. But things remain tense on the northern border. Actor Hezbollah shot 60 plus missiles across to Israel yesterday, and the Israeli Air Force responded with lethal action. Well, now it seems the US Defense Intelligence Agency has leaked an assessment saying that Israel would be stretched too thin across too many fronts. Some of them, in fact, that this is what will happen now that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel, though, can handle all of it. I suggest that Hezbollah learn what Hamas has already learned in recent months. No terrorist is immune, and we are determined to protect our citizens and return the residents of the North safely to their homes. It is a national goal shared by all of us, and we act responsibly to achieve it. If we can, we will do it in diplomatic ways, and if not, we will act in other ways. We have team coverage of every angle of the story. First, let me come into studio now with Avi Pazna, the former Israeli Ambassador to France and to Italy. Thanks so much for joining us. Your Excellency, let me ask you a question about Secretary of State Blinken coming to Qatar. It's an important move for him. What do you think he's expecting the Qataris to do? First of all, I must stress that there are very close ties between the US and Qatar. We know that the US has a military base. The biggest military base of the United States in the Middle East is in Qatar, confronting Iran. So then there is a Qatari role in trying to liberate our hostages, which is very important. Now, it is very complicated, because at the same time, Qatar is one of the strongest supporters of the Hamas. So it's a very delicate situation for everybody. For Blinken, there is no problem. As I told you, United States, Qatar, good relation. The problem is us. How do we deal with Qatar? How do we see Qatar? It's a hostile country, first of all. Today, it's a hostile country. You know there were times in the 19th when we had the diplomatic representation in Qatar. After the Oslo agreement, we did have, or the Madrid agreement, but to say, we did have a diplomatic representation there. Then things soured, and Qatar went the other way. Qatar now is very close to the Muslim brothers everywhere. This is why their ties with Egypt are not good because the Egyptians don't like the Muslim brother. We have a problem with Qatar because of their support of Hamas. At the same time, we need them. We need now the Qataris in order to negotiate the release of our hostages. You actually see one of the things that was important is that the families of the hostages went to go meet with the Emir of Qatar. That's a really important moment. Yes, sir. The fact that the Emir of Qatar is ready to see the family of the hostages is important and indicates the seriousness of Qatar in trying to negotiate. It's unusual. I mean, I don't know if everybody in Qatar or in the Arab world liked the scene of the family of the hostages meeting with the Emir of Qatar. But Qatar wanted to signal we are serious. We are trying our best. By the way, they tell us now that after the death of Al-Hawoui in Lebanon, attributed by foreign sources to Israel, there is now more difficulties in the negotiation to liberate the hostages, and they find the Hamas very, very sour on the idea. So we add one more thing for the agenda for Secretary of State Blinken to do when he meets with the Emir right now, I imagine. But he's also, the Secretary of State is also in a very difficult position having gone to trying to get some things to calm down in the northern frontier with Lebanon. Yes. This is, of course, one of the main subject. But he's not, by the way, he's not going to Lebanon. Blinken will not be going to Lebanon. It is almost Oxtain, another who is making the shuttle between Jerusalem and Beirut trying to calm the things down. But tensions are very high, are very, very high. And there is no doubt in my mind that Blinken tries also to tell the Qataris to do every effort possible in order of the situation, not to worsen, not to escalate on the border between Israel and Lebanon. Blinken has a lot of work on its plate in this visit. But does he hold power, does he hold power with the Lebanese, does he hold power with, I mean that seems to be the simmering front is the north right now. Does he hold enough power where he can say to everyone in Lebanon, whether it's the Hezbollah, the proxies, whether, and this is more for Oxtain to do more than anything. But he will report up to Blinken. Is there enough for the Americans to have that sway up there? You know, Lebanese is a very divided country. And the Americans don't talk to the Hezbollah. There's no, absolutely no ties, no contact between American and Hezbollah. They talk to a shadow Lebanese government because also there's no government in Lebanon. So it's very difficult for the Americans. So I would say that their influence in Lebanon is limited. But there's no other country. Maybe France, France has some, some, not much, but some influence in Lebanon. It's very difficult in Lebanon because actually it's the Hezbollah today who rules Lebanon, not officially. Officially, you have, you should have a president. You don't have a president. You should have a government. You don't have a government. So to say that somebody yield some influence in Lebanon, very difficult to say. And Mr. Abid Haas, I'm going to have you hold on for one second because there's things moving on in the southern front of Israel right now. We have team coverage of every angle of the war. Let's first begin with I-24 news correspondent Pia Stachowak. She's got the latest from the southern front. It is a tense come after an eventful day yesterday on Saturday. Hezbollah fired at least 40 rockets onto different areas in northern Israel. Hezbollah claims to have targeted an Israeli army base in the Mehran region, saying that it was targeting specifically its aerial surveillance systems. The Israeli army has not commented on that incident. But this is a new level of escalation that was reached. Hezbollah saying that this is the initial response to the assassination, alleged Israeli assassination of Hamas leader Salha al-Aroori in Beirut last week and that there is more to come. Israel is on very high level of alert. The Israeli military has been striking Hezbollah positions in southern Lebanon, such as infrastructure and weapons depots also this morning. Now the question is, how will the situation here in the northern front develop? We're three months into the war with Gaza, but also the northern front has been very much uneasy. Not only is there rocket fire, but also on a very daily and regular basis, the anti-tank missiles and motor shells that are targeting the Israeli communities. Now, in a range of five kilometers away from the border, the communities are evacuated. Also, those communities that you can see behind me, many of them are not even accessible for civilian movement because there's an imminent threat of those motor shells and anti-tank missiles being sent over this mountain range from southern Lebanon. Now, it seems as to the region does not have any interest in a wider escalation. We've been hearing over the weekend from the caretaker Lebanese Prime Minister and Najib Mikati saying that he is not interested in a renewed war with Israel. Also, Israel is not interested in having a two-front war. However, we do know and this is also what we're hearing from the Israeli defense establishment that Hezbollah needs to be pushed away from the border to enable the residents, the thousands of evacuees, to return to their homes because many of them are demanding a substantial solution to push Hezbollah substantially away from the border and to eliminate the threat that Hezbollah has been posing even before this war and is expected to continue to pose if this situation is not treated the way that residents especially are demanding. Now, after yesterday's escalation and after Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah vowing that there is more to follow in terms of attacks on Israel, residents and also obviously the Israeli military and defense establishment are viewing the developments here in the north with great concern. This is P.H. Dekalbach reporting for I-24 News from the Israel-Lebanon border. I'm rejoined back in studio with the former ambassador to Italy and to France. As Pia was on the northern front with south Lebanon, the southern Lebanon. I tripped up because I wanted to ask you a question specifically about that. It's because of UN Resolution 1701. Can you explain to our viewers exactly what that resolution is? Yes. The Resolution 1701 was voted by the Security Council of the United Nations in 2006 after the Second Lebanese War. And it stipulated that Hezbollah will be deployed north of the Litani River. The Litani River is a river that runs parallel to the Israeli border, about 27 kilometers from the border. And that in southern Lebanon, there would be no Hezbollah presence. This is a stipulation by that. And there would be an international force, UNIFIL, which would enforce this. So for some years, this worked. This 1701 worked this resolution. And the UNIFIL was filled with peacekeeping. They wore helmets. They had berets. Yes. It's a force. Absolutely. Peacekeeping force of the United Nations. There were about eight or nine countries taking part, including European countries. I mean, it was a force. But they are very ineffective, because you cannot expect them to fight for us. And for some years, Hezbollah maintained that, followed that. In the last two, three years, we saw a slow infiltration of Hezbollah. I mean, they were not armed at least not, you could not see that they're armed. A slow infiltration of the Raduan force of the Hezbollah. What is the Raduan force? It's their commando force. And they were threatening to do exactly what the Hamas did to us on the 7th of October, meaning that the Raduan force would cross into Israel, would destroy villages, would occupy land, would take prisoners. This is what they said. And just to our viewers know, there wasn't a fence or a wall built the same way that it's built along the West Bank or built along Gaza. Not even a fence. In fact, there were blue barrels. And the blue barrels and a blue line, you could basically write it like a graffiti line. And that was considered the border. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, you know, that the fence didn't help much in Gaza, by the way, and in parenthesis. But, you know, but we, our security was based 2006, it's now 17, 18 years. I mean, it was based on that resolution 1701. And the reason I bring this question up, Mr. Ambassador, is because I don't know to whom do you enforce this with the 1701. A lot of people are saying, oh, it needs to be enforced. It needs to be enforced. You don't have a Lebanese government. You don't have a Lebanese government to speak of. It's controlled by Hezbollah. Hezbollah is not a state. It's not a country. So they are not party to this resolution. It's just paper, it seems like. Am I correct? You are very correct. And this is why there must be also in Lebanon a government. And there must be a president. And this is a package deal. When we say that we want everybody to act, according to 1701, there must be a Lebanon. There must be a government in Lebanon. This is also one of the worries of Blinken, of the Americans, of the Europeans, that there is no government. This is why we may be forced to employ other means to assure our security, because maybe we cannot return to 1701. As an ambassador, that's a very diplomatic way of saying that other means meaning military. Absolutely, absolutely. Military, by the way, military pressure is also necessary in order to get if we get 1701 back. But we must be ready to apply. I am now speaking not in diplomatic words. We must be ready to apply military pressure on the Hezbollah to force the Hezbollah behind the Littani River. But these are much stronger. These are, this is a much stronger force than Hamas. Stronger than Hamas, yes. I would say about twice or three times Hamas. And what is especially worrying about the Hezbollah is the enormous amount of rockets and missiles that they have. It is said that they have about 150,000 missiles. Some of them can reach every point in Israel. Some of them are even precision missiles. I mean, I am sure that Israeli has answers also to that. But Hezbollah is something guys. But you see, look, take the Hamas. We are now three months in a war and we still have not finished with Gaza. We knew it would take time. We knew that. Because these terrorist organizations are so entrenched. Everything is under the earth. Everything is in tunnels. Everything is mined. Everything is booby trapped. Same with Hezbollah. If we go to a military confrontation with Hezbollah, we will win the war. But it won't be easy. The idea first is to do diplomatic, is to exhaust all diplomatic beliefs first. Let me point out that as we've been reporting American Secretary of State Anthony Blinken is doing shuttle diplomacy through the Middle East. If I can tell our viewers he visited Jordan, Crete. He's going to be here in Israel in the West Bank on Tuesday and Wednesday. He has a very full agenda. I want to bring a report now by senior diplomatic correspondent Owen Alterman. If it's Sunday, this must be Jordan. As US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken jets through Amman on his tour of the Middle East, here meeting with Jordan's King Abdullah. This after stops in Turkey and Greece. And before stops in Qatar, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Israel, the West Bank and Egypt. These are not necessarily easy conversations. There are different perspectives, different needs, different requirements, but it is vital that we engage in this diplomacy now. Blinken is juggling at least three balls. The first one, preventing all out war in Israel's North. Doing what he can to incentivize Hezbollah to get to yes on a diplomatic agreement that allows Israelis to return to northern communities feeling safe. Here, Blinken is part of a larger Western push. It is imperative to avoid the regional escalation in the Middle East. Absolutely necessary to avoid Lebanon being dragged into a regional conflict. And the second juggling ball, the war in Gaza itself, where Blinken will continue to push Israel to lower civilian casualties up the flow of aid and move on to the next phase of the war. And then the third ball, Gaza's day after, where Blinken has now laid out some of the clearest American thinking yet. And we also talked about the role that Turkey can play, both in the day after for Gaza in terms of the challenging questions of governance, Palestinian life governance, security, rebuilding. So the United States is moving to bring in Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to help run Gaza. How does Israel feel about that? Blinken will presumably find out. Israel is stop seven on his tour. I'm joined back in studio again with Ambassador Avi Paz and the former ambassador to France and to Italy. They mentioned the idea that the Turks would somehow get involved in Gaza is a new part of the equation here. How? Why? The Turks have not exactly been so warm and friendly to anybody in the area. If you ask me if I were the Israeli government, I would not accept the idea, never ever. And Erdogan, I mean, there can be another Turkey, one, there was another Turkey. There will be another Turkey. Turkey and Erdogan, a role in Gaza, God forbid, God forbid. No. You know, Erdogan is the man who compared Netanyahu to Hitler two days, four days ago. How can you have a role in Gaza? That's an enemy of Israel. He himself, not Turkey. Turkey is a country with whom we can have good ties. We had good ties. We can have good ties. We will have good ties, I hope. Under Erdogan, I would never allow any Turk in Gaza or anywhere else in our conflict. They are on the side of Hamas, completely, 100% more than any other Arab. They are not an Arab country, first of all. They are a Muslim country. There is no Arab country who is so much engaged with the Hamas, a part of Qatar, but something else. They're Turkey. How can I don't understand that proposal? I tell you, if I would advise the Israeli government and say no. But isn't the whole idea of negotiation is that you have two parties who want to get to some sort of common ground? So if you have to negotiate with someone you don't like, it's the only way you're going to get anywhere. But you have to have a minimum of trust with somebody, even if you don't like him. Can we trust Erdogan? I mean, how many times did we negotiate with Erdogan in the last, take the last 13 years, three times he broke of diplomatic relations, recalled ambassadors, throw any insult possible at Israel. Then suddenly, ah, yeah, yeah, you are my good friend, Mr. Bennett, you are my good friend, Netanyahu, I meet you at the UN. And then, yeah, Netanyahu is no better than Hitler. You cannot do business with a man like that. You cannot do business. I wouldn't advise. You know, when you have negotiation, you have to have a minimum of understanding and to credibility on the other side. Here you don't have. I mean, you have other countries that can play a role in Gaza. All right, let's talk about the other countries. What are the other countries? Who would you go to? If you're in this position, you've dealt with almost every country in the region yourself, personally. Who do you go to first? First, I would take Arab countries. You would be surprised. I would take Arab countries who do have diplomatic relations with Israel or who are ready to have diplomatic relations with Israel and give them a role in Gaza. Yes, Arab countries like Egypt, Jordan, the Emirates, Bahrain, maybe Saudi Arabia. I trust more Saudi Arabia today than I trust Turkey, even though we don't have relations with them. So I could imagine another configuration of Arab states having a role in Gaza. Security, I think, would be assured by Israel, but having a civilian role in Gaza, I could imagine that very well. There was a report today that actually Egypt was somehow looking to get involved in a post-conflict Gaza of some sort. Sure, why not? But for years, if anybody, they never opened the gates, they told everyone, we're not accepting the Palestinians, what you're smiling at. More than that, Albert. I was at Ken David in the negotiation with Sadat, begging Sadat negotiation, President Karthik. You know that begging offered Sadat a role in Gaza, not a role to rule Gaza. Sadat, that was back in 78, 79. Didn't want to touch it with a 10-feet poll. So that's why I'm laughing that today the Egyptian would be ready to play a role in Gaza. I think Israel would welcome that very much. Really? But do you think Al-Sisi would actually go for something like this? I don't know. Look, I cannot speak on his behalf. I don't know. No, but do you know? I read the same report that you did. There are rumors. I don't know. To tell you the truth, if I would be Al-Sisi, I would be very hesitant to touch this zone, okay? He has enough with his own Muslim brothers in Egypt also to have to deal with those in Gaza. But maybe there is American pressure on Egypt, you know? But it doesn't play well on the streets. It doesn't play well on the streets of Turkey. It doesn't play well on the streets of Egypt. It doesn't play well. I mean, it doesn't play well on the streets of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. I mean, you know, as you said yourself, you know, when you negotiate, you have to reach a compromise, and you have to reach the best compromise possible. And I know it doesn't play well. A lot of Israeli will oppose. You know, you have Israeli who want to reestablish settlement in Gaza. And look at Ben Gvir and Smotric. They say the day after when you ask them, what are you going to do the day after, they say, we are going to resettle truth in the Gaza Strip. So the Israeli would don't like the idea to see an Arab force, any Arab force in Gaza. And the Arabs were very hesitant to play a role. But somebody will have to be there. And it won't be the Hamas because the Hamas will lose its grip on Gaza when the war is over. Is there a way, Mr. Ambassador, that the Israelis or maybe even the U.S. can basically say to the Arab forces, whether it's UAE or Saudi Arabia or any of the other ones, when this is over, there's a place for you to rebuild, to help rebuild. From a business perspective, we can have, you can have Dubai on the Mediterranean, if you'd come in and help fix it and clean it up. Yes, I do think so. You know, there was a time that people were speaking about Gaza as a Singapore of the Middle East. You know, why not? I mean, look at small countries. Okay, Dubai and Qatar and Abu Dhabi, they have oil, they have gas, that's different. They have the money. But Gaza, look at what they've been able to do. I mean, you know, it's quite incredible. Build 500 kilometers of tunnels. I mean, those are people that are able to do things. You understand what I mean? Oh, believe me, there's a joke in this sense that they could build tunnels like this. Imagine what they could have built with the concrete use of the tunnel. Exactly. I mean, instead of building tunnels, instead of engaging terror, take all this energy you have there. And you do have their energies in Gaza. And put it to work in something which brings you dividends, dividends of peace, dividends of a good economy, of a fruitful industry. You can do that. But again, first condition, take the Hamas out of Gaza. Well, first initiative is get the Israeli hostages back home. Let's start with that. Of course. Then you do rule number two, take care of militarily, take care of Hamas so that that doesn't become a threat anymore. And then I guess this is where my question has to do with in terms of what the American pressure is to have a plan. And it seems as though, and in the one minute that we have left, it seems as though there was not necessarily a book in the back of the room that Kariath says, okay, when this is over, here's what happens. No, we still, Israel still doesn't have an idea on the day after. Twice. There would have been a discussion in the government and twice it was postponed. Once because it had to be dealt with first in the war cabinet and then to go to the full cabinet. And when they went to the full cabinet, there was a discussion about guns. But yes, we have to think and to present our ideas for the day after, because you know what, if we don't present our ideas, others will do it for us. Very great point. Avi Pazzo, the former Israeli ambassador to France and to Italy. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. You can get the very latest on I-24 on TV online streaming and get push alerts on your phone when things break. I'm Albert Lewitan reporting from Tel Aviv. The news continues. Is in a state of war, families completely done down in their beds. We have no idea where is she as our soldiers are fighting on the front line. But the general perception is something that certainly needs to to be fought as well. And yet says Hamas was working on long range cruise missiles and had help from Iran. I'm Albert Lewitan at the I-24 news desk in Tel Aviv. Welcome to our viewers around the world. It is Sunday, January the 7th, day 93 of the war. Israeli troops operating deep in Gaza city have uncovered another tunnel and found inside technological equipment, including components used by Hamas to build long range missiles. We're talking a rocket engine and a warhead of a cruise missile. The thing is, until now no one thought Hamas could do this. And the IDF says what else was found? Iranian guidebooks. It's still unclear how far along Hamas was at making these missiles operational. Right now in Gaza, there are heavy battles between IDF forces and Hamas' elite Nukba death squads. The Ghulani combat infantry are fighting a series of battles, not only from the ground, but also from the air with targeted airstrikes. Moving now to the West Bank, 19-year-old policewoman Shai Garmai was killed this morning when border police entered Janine to conduct a counter-terror raid. She's being laid to rest at this hour with full military honors. She was killed and three of her fellow officers were wounded when a roadside bomb was detonated as their vehicle passed. It was an ambush. The soldiers attempting to rescue the injured were attacked by Palestinian Islamic Shahad Gunman who threw explosives at the Israeli troops. An attack helicopter eliminated the terrorist. Six were killed. In Qatar right now, American Secretary of State Antony Blinken is meeting with Qatari Emir Sheikh Tamim al-Tahani. Blinken is going all over the region trying to calm things down, but things remain tense on the northern border after Hezbollah shot 60-plus missiles across Israel yesterday and the Israeli Air Force responded with lethal action. And now it seems the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency has leaked an assessment. It says Israel would be stretched too thin across too many fronts, seven of them in fact, but Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel can handle it. I suggest that Hezbollah learn what Hamas has already learned in recent months. No terrorist is immune and we are determined to protect our citizens and return the residents of the north safely to their homes. It is a national goal shared by all of us and we act responsibly to achieve it. If we can, we will do it in diplomatic ways. And if not, we will act in other ways. We have line-team coverage. Let's go first to Zach Andrews. I'd like to see if we can correspond to the north of Israel. There are air raid sirens going off. I see on the top of the screen. Zach, what can you tell us? Yeah, and I'm hearing more come in as we join you here. It appears that Quresh Ramona as well under an alert as well as Zareed and Matat. So several new alerts here in a day that has just seen just one claimed attack from Hezbollah. Of course, we know these things change very quickly and after a very busy day yesterday. But the attention here on the north is on that visit by Blinken, Secretary Blinken, tomorrow as he attempts to calm things down. And that assessment that it's believed the Israeli Defense Forces would be spread too thin in a conflict with Hezbollah. There has been some discourse and leaked material coming out of the Biden administration suggesting that the entire gravity or shift of focus would come too late to attempt to endure a campaign in the north that the Biden administration has been pressuring Netanyahu and the Israeli camp not to engage in an offensive operation in southern Lebanon, that it would be too costly and put US interests at risk. This leaked report also claims that the IDF fired on LAF, Lebanese Armed Forces positions 34 times since the start of the conflict on October 7th. And the LAF is aligned with the United States, funded in part by the US, seen as a counterbalance to Hezbollah in the south. Part of this agreement to get Hezbollah above the Letani River. Of course, this has been ignored for over a decade, but the US sees the LAF as a strategic partner in attempting to create some calm in the region, a troubling development on their end, they say. So Zach, let me make sure for our viewers to understand what's happening, that the report is that the IDF had struck not Hezbollah targets, but they were Lebanese armed targets. I just want to make sure our viewers get some clarity on that. Yeah, and the clarity is very important that these positions were LAF positions that were nearby where Hezbollah was firing earlier. So bases, think bases, outposts, even LAF soldiers that have been killed since the fighting began. Now, this is again coming from the Defense Department, and this is just a few hours old. So this is a new report again, something the Israelis have yet to comment on. All right, Zach Anders, keep us up to date as to what's happening. We'll check back into you later on today. Now, let's switch over now to the south. As we said at the top of the broadcast, Israeli troops have found a Hamas compound that had components to build long-range cruise missiles. Robert Swift, I-24 News Correspondent is in southern Israel with this. Robert. That's right. So those components that were found, essentially those were bits of equipment that could upgrade a rocket to make it more precise, essentially converting it from a rocket into a missile. These are weapon systems that the Israel's enemy to the north, Hezbollah has, but long-range artillery missiles is not something that Hamas has. They have used rockets throughout this conflict to essentially to try and saturate the air defenses of Israel. They try to launch as many rockets as possible with the hope that this will get through Israel's air defenses. However, if they were to have more accurate weapons such as these missiles, this would make the job of Israel's air defense that much more difficult. Now, the focus of the conflict here has for the last few days been up on the northern border, but it's worth noting that the fighting in Gaza continues. There's been injuries among the IDF in Gaza in recent days, and from where we are, we can see the conflict continuing. There is Israeli jets over our heads as we speak, and there's been a fairly constant low rate of fire coming from an Israeli artillery position just to the east of us. You'll see the smoke that is behind me. That's the Gaza Strip where that fighting is taking place. And so they're still at this point, but talk a little bit about how they found, apparently, these components in underground tunnels. So they're still looking at, they're still finding tunnels no matter where they go, and it seems like. Yeah, and I'm sure the IDF will throw out this. As long as they continue to operate, they're going to find more tunnels. It was clear to everybody before this conflict began that the IDF would have supremacy when it comes to firepower and armour on the surface conflict. So really, the tunnels are one of Hamas's best forms of defenses. They can use them for logistics. They can use them as a place to hide from IDF attacks. And they can also use them for offensive operations to get in behind the IDF and to conduct attacks. And that's what we continue to see in the fighting that continues in the southern and central parts of Gaza. It's small units of Hamas armed with RPGs that are getting up close to the IDF positions, using these tunnels, using the buildings and rubble as cover, and then making attacks. And that appears to be where these components were found again in tunnels. Great. Robert Swift joining us from the southern part of Israel. Thanks so much again for joining us. I'm joined now in studio with Gonom Ben-Nitsak, former Shin Bet agent. Thanks so much again for coming in, Gonom. The reason I've asked Robert about these tunnels is because when somebody wants to build a cruise missile, it's not exactly, it's not the size of a cup. We're talking, it's probably the size of this table. So I imagine everybody knows, everyone could see it if they were planning on doing something with it. It's not as though it's, it was a, it's such a secret. It seems like it was an open secret that this probably occurred. You know, but we're talking about the underground city of the Gaza Strip. And we're talking about hundreds of kilometers of tunnels that they built and also some big holes in, in underneath the town where they can build the missile. I think that when we look at the region and what Iran is doing in the region, Iran is trying to support Hezbollah and give them the, the information to how to build a precise missiles against Israel. Israel in the last few years is fighting all the time. And we hear almost every night that the Israeli Air Force attacked in all the region in the border between Syria and Iraq in Lebanon against the precise missile project. And I'm saying, and now we understand that Iran also tried to build another post somewhere where they can build the missiles in Gaza. So let's talk a little bit about that. Is it surprise you at all that the IDF opens a tunnel and they find cruise missile, cruise missile manuals and a warhead and an engine that's according to them? Does it surprise you at all? It surprises me that we didn't have the intelligence in advance if we didn't. This what bothers me because it's not a big surprise that Iran will try to give Hamas the ability to build the precise missiles. But I would expect that Mossad, Shin Bet, and military intelligence will have the intelligence in advance in order to attack it. And I think that in some cases, maybe we had some intelligence about it. But, you know, the way the Israeli government decided how to deal with the situation is to wait and let this place or this post to be part of the target bank, what they call target bank. And of course, when we look at what happened on October 7th, we understand that the perception of building banks of targets was completely wrong. But also what it does also speak to the fact that along the lines of the intelligence from before October 7th that it was like, well, Hamas doesn't have the capability of doing anything like this. It's impossible. There's no way for them to get the material. How are they going to do it? As opposed to thinking like just think of anything virtually possible for Hamas to do, they would do. So is that where we are in that situation where they were they discounted it thinking like there's no way Hamas could even get that far? But I need to tell you something that I never talked about on media. During the Second Intifada, we found rockets in Ramallah, in the Ramallah area, not far from the settlement of Psagot. One of the rockets was launched against Psagot as a drill to see if it works. A few months later, I found another rocket that was built in the southern town, southern of Ramallah that called Bitunia. So we know that in 2002, Hamas tried to build rockets in the West Bank. So it shouldn't be a surprise to anybody. That 20 years later. 20 years later. And Iran is putting lots of pressure, efforts, money in making Hamas stronger against Israel as one of the organizations that can attack Israel as part of the idea of building a belt around Israel in the North, in the South. So if Israel is trying to attack Iran because of the nuclear project, then Hamas and Hezbollah and other organizations in Syria can attack and Yemen, of course. Let's talk about Yemen. And they can attack Israel. So it's not a surprise. But the fact that we find it now and we didn't stop it in advance, this is something that is disturbing. It's also disturbing that we didn't find it now. It's 93 days into the war. So it would presume that there's many more others. There are many others, many other cruise missile potentials there. I'm sure that this was not model number one. This is maybe model number 15 that we, that the Israelis somehow got in hold of. I agree. But I think that IDF now is working in a very delinear way to go and get all the tunnels, all the entrances to the tunnels. So it takes time. And I think, you know, in the situation, in a very complex situation of the battlefield of Gaza, Chaneunas and Rafah, this is something that I can understand why it takes time to find and destroy now those areas. And yet, you know, we had a gap, a big gap in our intelligence about what's going on in Gaza and in Hamas. And this is something that Israel should think about, not just about what happened, why we failed before, and also how to build the intelligence and not to forget the human intelligence. Let's talk about human intelligence for one second, because as the IDF goes door to door, building the building street by street, they're looking, they're finding things. So let's go back a second. First, let's go about the tunnels. They built a series of tunnels that the New York City subway system would be, they would wish they could have such extensive tunnels and well built tunnels, right? We say about Tel Aviv. So you would imagine that they're planned somewhere. Somebody knows where the map is. Everybody must, there must be a map. There must be an app. There must be some sort of way that somebody knows where all the tunnels are and where they all lead to, right? Yes. And, you know, in 97, I was still in training in the Shin Bet. And I was visiting the southern area, headquarters of the Shin Bet. And I remember that someone showed me the project of getting the intelligence about the tunnels in 1997. And then I asked them, how come we collect this intelligence? Because from my point of view, when someone starts to dig the tunnel, this is a terror attack. Terror attack is not when the, you know, when you have missiles in the tunnel or when they use the tunnel and some terrorists go out in one of the kibbutzim. From my point of view, the terror attack started when they start to dig the tunnel. But in Israel, there was something different that went. Why? Because again, it goes back to the idea of like, oh, they'll never use, they can't, it's almost like a discounting for thinking of, for intelligence. They're not smart enough to figure out what to do with it. I don't think this was a reason. I think the reason was that all the time there was a reason why not to start a war. Because we have international pressure. Because we don't want missiles on Tel Aviv. Because politically, it's not the right time. Because we want to buy some quiet time. There was always something that made Israel not to go and attack Gaza. And now, now on October 7th, we paid a very, very high price for this policy. Let's talk about human intelligence on the next part, the hostages. Because last night, there were tens of thousands who had went in front of the Ministry of Defense. I happened to watch them from the sidelines. I saw they were there. And one of the things they just wanted answers. Where are my relatives? Where are my children? Where are my grandparents? Where are the elderly, the frail, the babies, all of that? Where's the human intelligence trying to find out where those people are? If I compare to the West Bank, during the Secondary Fada, we had a range of assets in the West Bank to get intelligence. But once you start a war, it's very hard to get the intelligence. Because the assets can't call you. The situation doesn't allow them to go around and watch what's going on. Now, if we think about Gaza, in Gaza, we had a problem with human intelligence. From the beginning, even before? Even before. And I'm saying it because you see what happened. You see that we didn't know about what they are going to do, about their plan, and the fact that they are going to attack Israel on October 7th, early in the morning. So we had a problem in advance with human intelligence. And now, even those assets that are in Gaza somewhere, maybe some of them went to the South because they need to save their lives and the lives of their families. It's very hard to communicate. Well, why don't you think that... Forgive me, because it's an important point, I think, that a lot of people around the world can't understand. Why can't we find out where they are? Even if they're being held someplace. If the IDF has the ability to track down a phone and a certain building before it blows up, why can't they call and say, hey, if you have a hostage, we will find who we want to know and we will give you, I don't know, a million dollars for each person, let's say it'll go to your paypal account, but I'm just making it up, right? Yeah. The ability to go to that level of pinpoint accuracy. I guess that Hamas managed to collect most of the hostages and take them underneath to the tunnels. I guess that most of them now are used as a belt, a safety belt for the leaders of Hamas that are still underneath in the tunnels. And we don't know what Israel knows or doesn't know about the hostages, but let's say we have the intelligence and we know that they are in the tunnels with the Icheh Sinouar. Right now, the only option Icheh Sinouar has, if the IDF is coming close to this tunnel, is to kill everybody. So even if we have the intelligence, it will be very hard to get them alive out of the tunnels. So this is a big dilemma, and I think, and this is why I think that Israel should give Icheh Sinouar another option, because right now he lacks options. The only option is to die and kill all the hostages. We don't give him any other option to solve this situation. So now maybe in the communication, the diplomacy that is going around, maybe they tell him something. But as much as we know right now, he has no option. We need to give him this option. And I don't see how military operation will give, will bring back the hostages. I want to thank you very much for being in studio with us today. Thank you for having me. You know, now I want to bring the unbelievable story of Daniel Aloni, who happened to be spending the weekend of October the 7th in the south of Israel. And then what he lived was an absolute horror movie, more in this report. She wasn't supposed to be there at all. But the family insisted that she come for the holiday. And so on that black Sabbath, Danielle Aloni found herself in a safe room in Kibbutz, Niroz, together with her six-year-old daughter, Amelia, and her sister, Sharon Aloni Cunio, and her husband, David, and their two twins, Yuli and Emma. When the terrorists closed in on their house and set it on fire, David escaped through the window together with little Yuli. Danielle, Sharon, and the two girls remained in the smoke in the safe room. In the safe room, we realized that the house was being burned down. My sister left a message that we were being burned, and we probably wouldn't make it out. We accepted our fate that we would die here by inhaling smoke or fire, depending on which came first. Just an understanding? Understanding, fear, there are no words. What can you do? Will you be scared you'll be dead in a second? You won't feel anything anymore? After I covered my daughter with a blanket, I don't even know why. Maybe the smoke wouldn't penetrate or penetrate it more slowly, and they hugged her tightly and I told her, I'm sorry, we're going to die. We no longer had much strength in our bodies. We had been in the safe room for six hours. My sister helped me open the window. There were a number of terrorists standing in front of us with guns drawn. I closed my eyes waiting for the barrage. We heard shots outside. Then I opened my eyes because they weren't shooting, and they just pointed at us, told us like that, and signaled we should get out. And we're already exhausted. They literally pulled us out. It was a relief when you suddenly realized that you weren't being shot at, that after all you were being taken somewhere, or that it would be a lie to say otherwise. Yes, yes, because we were waiting for it. And you realized at that moment, that from that point you have to live moment by moment. Absolutely. At this point we were being taken and I didn't know anything. This cart they were waiting for arrived. They picked us up, started driving. What's going on here? It's a horror that cannot be explained in words. I think there are still no words in Hebrew that can describe this horror, that new words need to be invented to describe what happened there that day. I was sure it was a lynching. They just kept giving me blows from behind, the head and the back. We arrived in Gaza. They told me to get up and they took the girl from my hands, Emma. They took the girl from her mother's hands. It's that they didn't know that I'm not her mother. I'm just her mother for there. Do they just physically take her from you? Yes. And that was the moment I managed to open my mouth and start shouting, no, no, my daughter, my daughter, no. He made out like this and here a curtain fell over my eyes. There's some mechanism at work, a mechanism that represses what I saw, because I don't remember who the girl was handed over to. I don't know which direction they went in. I failed to protect my daughter. She's like my daughter. She's my girl. I don't wish for any mother to have to go through this test. You said it was a horror movie. Imprisonment. They took us down the tunnels. They took you straight down to the tunnels. Yes. A prison anyone can understand. Imagine. You saw in the movie, you saw articles in Israel about people sitting inside prison facilities. But if I were to ask you how you imagine tunnels, first of all, it's total darkness. They have infrastructure, electricity, water in places meant to house people. The passages are total darkness. What, it's hot? It's humid? No air? It's not hot. It's insanely humid. The clothes, wet all the time, smelly. No air, no air. What, is it hard to breathe? Yes. We got to the first tunnel, which was probably some sort of stopover, where I saw people. There I saw adults, ties, a handcuffed boy. I think I saw a few more handcuffs there. What did you see on their faces? Shock, fear, this unknown, this situation that this reality that we were thrown into from one moment to the next. When we entered the next tunnel and I saw the injuries, people who were so bruised with open wounds, with bruised faces, people who had already seen their loved ones murdered outside were there. And all these things my daughter also saw. There was someone who came once that I saw to collect a list of medicines. Real medical treatment? Never. The situation is not good there. The situation is that there are, especially when many people are crammed together. What do you mean crammed together? Take me to this room. Imagine a room, roughly this width, mattresses like for refugees, one next to the other, close together. That means everyone with their own breasts and their injuries and everyone is crammed next to each other. And the snoring and the voices and the diseases. What did you do there, all the time? You are the mother of a six-year-old girl. What did you do? First of all, lots of dead hours, telling stories. It beautifies the painful reality. I told her that we are here, but why are we here? I told her because they took all the most special children and put them in this place to protect them from these booms outside. You see, booms happen outside, but they don't happen here. We're safe here. I would tell her that every day we are here brings us closer to getting out. We would choose a gift for each day we were there. 136 babies, toddlers, children, women, elderly, frail remain kept hostage at gunpoint. I'm Albert Lewerton. L is in a state of war. Families completely done down in their beds. We have no idea where she is. Our soldiers are fighting on the front lines, but the general perception is something that certainly needs to to be fought as well. Right now, the IDF says Hamas was working on long-range cruise missiles and had help from Iran. I'm Albert Lewerton at the I-24 Newsdesk in Tel Aviv. Welcome to our viewers around the world. It is Sunday, January the 7th, day 93 of the war. Israeli troops operating deep in Gaza City have uncovered another tunnel and found inside technological equipment including components used by Hamas to build long-range missiles. We're talking a rocket engine and a warhead of a cruise missile. The thing is, until now no one thought Hamas could do this. And the IDF says what else was found? Iranian guidebooks. It's still unclear at how far along Hamas was at making these missiles operational. Right now in Gaza, there are heavy battles between IDF forces and Hamas' elite Nukba death squads. The Ghulani combat infantry are fighting a series of battles not only from the ground but also from the air with targeted airstrikes. Moving now to the West Bank, 19-year-old policewoman Shai Garmai was killed this morning when border police entered Janine to conduct a counter-terror raid. She's being laid to rest at this hour with full military honors. She was killed and three of her fellow officers were wounded when a roadside bomb was detonated as their vehicle passed. It was an ambush. The soldiers attempting to rescue the injured were attacked by Palestinian Islamic Shahad Gunman who threw explosives at the Israeli troops. An attack helicopter eliminated the terrorist. Six were killed. In Qatar right now, American Secretary of State Antony Blinken is meeting with Qatari Emir Sheikh Tameem al-Tahani. Blinken is going all over the region trying to calm things down. But things remain tense on the northern border after Hezbollah shot 60-plus missiles across Israel yesterday and the Israeli Air Force responded with lethal action. Now it seems the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency has leaked an assessment. It says Israel would be stretched too thin across too many fronts, seven of them in fact, but Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel can handle it. I suggest that Hezbollah learn what Hamas has already learned in recent months. No terrorist is immune and we are determined to protect our citizens and return the residents of the north safely to their homes. It is a national goal shared by all of us and we act responsibly to achieve it. If we can, we will do it in diplomatic ways. And if not, we will act in other ways. We have live to coverage. Let's go first to Zach Andrews. I'd like to respond to the north of Israel. There are air raid signs going off. I see on the top of the screen. Zach, what can you tell us? Yeah, and I'm hearing more come in as we join you here. It appears that Kira Shemona as well under alert as well as Zerit and Matat. So several new alerts here in a day that has just seen just one claimed attack from Hezbollah. Of course, we know these things change very quickly and after a very busy day yesterday, but the attention here on the north is on that visit by Blinken. Secretary Blinken tomorrow as he attempts to calm things down and that assessment that it's believed the Israeli defense forces would be spread too thin in a conflict with Hezbollah. There has been some discourse and leaked material coming out of the Biden administration suggesting that the the entire gravity or shift of focus would come too late to attempt to endure a campaign in the north that the Biden administration has been pressuring Netanyahu and the Israeli camp not to engage in an offensive operation in southern Lebanon, that it would be too costly and put US interests at risk. This leaked report also claims that the IDF fired on LAF, Lebanese Armed Forces positions 34 times since the start of the conflict on October 7th. And the LAF is aligned with the United States, funded in part by the US, seen as a counterbalance to Hezbollah in the south. Part of this agreement to get Hezbollah above the Letani River. Of course, this has been ignored for over a decade, but the US sees the LAF as a strategic partner in attempting to create some calm in the region, troubling development on their end, they say. So, Zach, let me make sure for our viewers to understand what's happening that the that the report is that the IDF had struck not Hezbollah targets, but they were Lebanese armed targets. I just want to make sure our viewers get some clarity on that. Yeah, and the clarity is very important that these positions were LAF positions that were nearby where Hezbollah was firing earlier. So bases think bases outposts even LAF soldiers that have been killed since the fighting began. Now, this is again coming from the Defense Department, and this is just a few hours old. So this is a new report. Again, something the Israelis have yet to comment on. All right, Zach Anders, keep us up to date as to what's happening. We'll check back into you later on today. Now, let's switch over now to the south. As we said at the top of the broadcast, Israeli troops have found a Hamas compound that had components to build long range cruise missiles. Robert Swift, I-24 news correspondent is in southern Israel with this. Robert. That's right. So those components that were found, essentially those were bits of equipment that could upgrade a rocket to make it more precise, essentially converting it from a rocket into a missile. These are weapon systems that the Israel's enemy to the north, Hezbollah has, but long range artillery missiles is not something that Hamas has. They have used rockets throughout this conflict to essentially to try and saturate the air defenses of Israel. They try to launch as many rockets as possible with the hope that this will get through Israel's air defenses. However, if they were to have more accurate weapons such as these missiles, this would make the job of Israel's air defense that much more difficult. Now, the focus of the conflict here has for the last few days been up on the northern border, but it's worth noting that the fighting in Gaza continues. There's been injuries among the IDF in Gaza in recent days. And from where we are, we can see the conflict continuing. There is Israeli jets over our heads as we speak. And there's been fairly constant low rate of fire coming from an Israeli artillery position just to the east of us. You'll see the smoke that is behind me. That's the Gaza strip where that fighting is taking place. And so they're still at this point, but talk a little bit about how they found apparently these components in underground tunnels. So they're still looking at, they're still finding tunnels no matter where they go. It seems like. Yeah. And I'm sure the IDF will throughout this. As long as they continue to operate, they're going to find more tunnels. It was clear to everybody before this conflict began that the IDF would have supremacy when it comes to firepower and armor on the surface conflict. So really the tunnels are one of Hamas' best forms of defenses. They can use them for logistics. They can use them as a place to hide from IDF attacks. And they can also use them for offensive operations to get in behind the IDF and to conduct attacks. And that's what we continue to see in the fighting that continues in the southern and central parts of Gaza. It's small units of Hamas armed with RPGs that are getting up close to the IDF positions using these tunnels, using the buildings and rubble as cover, and then making attacks. And that appears to be where these components were found again in tunnels. Great. Robert's joining us from the southern part of Israel. Thanks so much again for joining us. I'm joined now in studio with Gonen Benenitzaq, former Shin Bet age. And thanks so much again for coming in, Gonen. The reason I've asked Robert about these tunnels is because when somebody wants to build a cruise missile, it's not exactly, it's not the size of a cup. We're talking, it's probably the size of this table. So I imagine everybody knows, everyone can see it, if they were planning on doing something with it, it's not as though it's such a secret. It seems like it was an open secret that this probably occurred. You know, Albert, we're talking about the underground city of the Gaza Strip. And we're talking about hundreds of kilometers of tunnels that they built and also some big holes underneath the town where they can build the missiles. I think that when we look at the region and what Iran is doing in the region, Iran is trying to support Hezbollah and give them the information to how to build a precise missiles against Israel. Israel, in the last few years, is fighting all the time. And we hear almost every night that the Israeli Air Force attacked in all the region in the border between Syria and Iraq in Lebanon against the precise missile project. And I'm saying, and now we understand that Iran also tried to build another post somewhere where they can build missiles in Gaza. So let's talk a little bit about that. Is it surprise you at all that the IDF opens a tunnel and they find cruise missile manuals and a warhead and an engine that's according to them? Does it surprise you at all? It surprises me that we didn't have the intelligence in advance if we didn't. This what bothers me because it's not a big surprise that Iran will try to give Hamas the ability to build the precise missiles. But I would expect that Mossad, Shin Bet, and military intelligence will have the intelligence in advance in order to attack it. And I think that in some cases, maybe we had some intelligence about it. But the way the Israeli government decided how to deal with the situation is to wait and let this place or this post to be part of the target bank, what they call target bank. And of course, when we look at what happened on October 7, we understand that the perception of building banks of targets was completely wrong. But also what it does also speak to the fact that along the lines of the intelligence from before October 7, that it was like, well, Hamas doesn't have the capability of doing anything like this. It's impossible. There's no way for them to get the material. How are they going to do it? As opposed to thinking like, just think of anything virtually possible for Hamas to do, they would do. So is that where we are in that situation where they discounted it thinking like there's no way Hamas could even get that far? But I need to tell you something that I never talked about on media. During the Second Intifada, we found rockets in Ramallah, in the Ramallah area, not far from the settlement of Psegot. One of the rockets was launched against Psegot as a drill to see if it works. A few months later, I found another rocket that was built in the southern town, southern of Ramallah, that called Bitunia. So we know that in 2002, Hamas tried to build rockets in the West Bank. So it shouldn't be a surprise to anybody. That 20 years later? 20 years later, and Iran is putting lots of pressure, efforts, money in making Hamas stronger against Israel as one of the organizations that can attack Israel as part of the idea of building a belt around Israel in the north, in the south. So if Israel is trying to attack Iran because of the nuclear project, then Hamas and Hezbollah and other organizations in Syria can attack in Yemen, of course. Let's talk about Yemen. And they can attack Israel. So it's not a surprise. But the fact that we find it now and we didn't stop it in advance, this is something that is disturbing. It's also disturbing that we didn't find it now. It's 93 days into the war. So it would presume that there's many more others. There are many others, many other cruise missile potentials there. I'm sure that this was not model number one. This is maybe model number 15 that the Israelis somehow got a hold of. I agree. But I think that the IDF now is working in a very dangerous way to go and get all the tunnels, all the entrances to the tunnels. So it takes time. And I think, you know, in the situation, in a very complex situation of the battlefield of Fegaza, Chanyones and Rafah, this is something that I can understand why it takes time to find and destroy now those areas. And yet, you know, we had a gap, a big gap, in our intelligence about what's going on in Gaza and in Hamas. And this is something that Israel should think about, not just about what happened, why we failed before, and also how to build the intelligence and not to forget the human intelligence. Let's talk about human intelligence for one second because as the IDF goes door to door, building the building street by street, they're looking, they're finding things. So let's go back a second. First, let's go about the tunnels. They built a series of tunnels that the New York City subway system would be, they would wish they could have such extensive tunnels and well built tunnels, right? What we say about Tel Aviv. So you would imagine that they're planned somewhere. Somebody knows where the map is. Everybody must have, there must be a map, there must be an app, there must be some sort of way that somebody knows where all the tunnels are and where they all lead to, right? Yes. In 97, I was still in training in the Shin Bet and I was visiting the southern area headquarters of the Shin Bet. And I remember that someone showed me the project of getting the intelligence about the tunnels in 1997. And then I asked them, how come we collect this intelligence? Because from my point of view, when someone starts to dig the tunnel, this is a terror attack. Terror attack is not when you have missiles in the tunnel or when they use the tunnel and some terrorists go out in one of the kibbutzim. From my point of view, the terror attack started when they started to dig the tunnel. But in Israel, there was something different that went. Why? Because again, it goes back to the idea of like, oh, they'll never use, they can't use, it's almost like a discounting for thinking of, for intelligence. They're not smart enough to figure out what to do with it. I don't think this was a reason. I think the reason was that all the time there was a reason why not to start the war. Because we have international pressure, because we don't want missiles on Tel Aviv, because politically it's not the right time, because we want to buy some quiet time. There was always something that made Israel not to go and attack Gaza. And now, now on October 7th, we paid a very, very high price for this policy. Let's talk about human intelligence on the next part, the hostages, because last night there were tens of thousands who went in front of the Ministry of Defense. I happened to watch them from the sidelines. I saw they were there. And one of the things they just wanted answers. Where are my relatives? Where are my children? Where are my grandparents? Where are the elderly, the frail, the babies? All of that. Where's the human intelligence trying to find out where those people are? If I compare to the West Bank, during the second into father, we had a range of assets in the West Bank to get intelligence. But once you start a war, it's very hard to get the intelligence, because the assets can't call you. The situation doesn't allow them to go around and watch what's going on. Now, if we think about Gaza, in Gaza, we had a problem with human intelligence. From the beginning, even before? Even before. And I'm saying it because you see what happened. You see that we didn't know about what they are going to do, about their plan, and the fact that they are going to attack Israel on October 7th early in the morning. So we had a problem in advance with human intelligence. And now even those assets that are in Gaza somewhere, maybe some of them went to the South because they need to save their lives and the lives of their families. It's very hard to communicate. Well, wouldn't you think that... Forgive me, because it's an important point, I think, that a lot of people around the world can't understand where... Why can't we find out where they are? Even if they're being held someplace. If the IDF has the ability to track down a phone and a certain building before it blows up, why can't they call and say, hey, if you have a hostage, we will find who we want to know and we will give you, I don't know, a million dollars for each person, let's say. It'll go to your paypal account, but I'm just making it up, right? Yeah. The ability to go to that level of pinpoint accuracy. I guess that Hamas managed to collect most of the hostages and take them underneath to the tunnels. I guess that most of them now are used as a belt, a safety belt, for the leaders of Hamas that are still underneath in the tunnels. And we don't know what Israel knows or doesn't know about the hostages, but let's say we have the intelligence and we know that they are in the tunnels with the Icheh Sinouar. Right now, the only option Icheh Sinouar has, if the IDF is coming close to this tunnel, is to kill everybody. So even if we have the intelligence, it will be very hard to get them alive out of the tunnels. So this is a big dilemma, I think, and this is why I think that Israel should give Icheh Sinouar another option, because right now, he lacks options. Okay, the only option is to die and kill all the hostages. We don't give him any other option to solve this situation. So now maybe in the communication, the diplomacy that is going around, maybe they tell him something, but as much as we know right now, he has no option. We need to give him this option. And I don't see how military operation will give, will bring back the hostages. I want to thank you very much, Gonom Minisai, for being in studio with us tonight. Thank you for having me. You know, now I want to bring the unbelievable story of Daniel Aloni, who happened to be spending the weekend of October the 7th in the south of Israel. And then what he lived was an absolute horror movie, more in this report. She wasn't supposed to be there at all, but the family insisted that she come for the holiday. And so on that black Sabbath, Danielle Aloni found herself in a safe room in Kibbutz, Niroz, together with her six-year-old daughter, Amelia, and her sister, Sharon Aloni Cuneo, and her husband, David, and their two twins, Yuli and Emma. When the terrorists closed in on their house and set it on fire, David escaped through the window together with little Yuli. Danielle, Sharon, and the two girls remained in the smoke in the safe room. In the safe room, we realized that the house was being burned down. My sister left a message that we were being burned, and we probably wouldn't make it out. We accepted our fate that we would die here by inhaling smoke or fire, depending on which came first. Understanding, fear, there are no words. What can you do? Will you be scared you'll be dead in a second? You won't feel anything anymore? After I covered my daughter with a blanket, I don't even know why. Maybe the smoke wouldn't penetrate or penetrate it more slowly. And they hugged her tightly and I told her, I'm sorry, we're going to die. We no longer had much strength in our bodies. We had been in the safe room for six hours. My sister helped me open the window. There were a number of terrorists standing in front of us with guns drawn. I closed my eyes waiting for the barrage. We heard shots outside. Then I opened my eyes because they weren't shooting, and they just pointed at us, told us like that, and signaled we should get out. And we're already exhausted. They literally pulled us out. It was a relief when you suddenly realized that you weren't being shot at, that after all you were being taken somewhere, or that it would be a lie to say otherwise. Yes, yes, because we were waiting for it. And you realized at that moment, that from that point you have to live moment by moment. Absolutely. At this point we were being taken and I didn't know anything. This cart they were waiting for arrived. They picked us up, started driving. What's going on here? It's a horror that cannot be explained in words. I think there are still no words in Hebrew that can describe this horror, that new words need to be invented to describe what happened there that day. I was sure it was a lynching. They just kept giving me blows from behind, the head and the back. We arrived in Gaza, they told me to get up and they took the girl from my hands, Emma. They took the girl from her mother's hands. It's that they didn't know that I'm not her mother. I'm just her mother for there. Do they just physically take her from you? Yes. And that was the moment I managed to open my mouth and start shouting, no, no, my daughter, my daughter, no. He made out like this. And here a curtain fell over my eyes. There's some mechanism at work, a mechanism that represses what I saw because I don't remember who the girl was handed over to. I don't know which direction they went in. I failed to protect my daughter. She's like my daughter. She's my girl. I don't wish for any mother to have to go through this test. You said it was a horror movie, imprisonment. They took us down the tunnels. They took you straight down to the tunnels. Yes, a prison anyone can understand. Imagine, you saw in the movie, you saw articles in Israel about people sitting inside prison facilities. But if I were to ask you how you imagine tunnels, first of all, it's total darkness. They have infrastructure, electricity, water in places meant to house people. The passages are total darkness. What? It's hot. It's humid. No air. It's not hot. It's insanely humid. The clothes wet all the time, smelly. No air. No air. What? Is it hard to breathe? Yes. We got to the first tunnel, which was probably some sort of stopover where I saw people. There I saw adults, ties, a handcuffed boy. I think I saw a few more handcuffs there. What did you see on their faces? Shock, fear, this unknown, this situation that this reality that we were thrown into from one moment to the next. When we entered the next tunnel and I saw the injuries, people who were so bruised with open wounds with bruised faces, people who had already seen their loved ones murdered outside were there. And all these things my daughter also saw. There was someone who came once to collect a list of medicines. Real medical treatment? Never. The situation is not good there. The situation is that there are, especially when many people are crammed together. What do you mean crammed together? Take me to this room. Imagine a room, roughly this width, mattresses like for refugees, one next to the other, close together. That means everyone with their own breasts and their injuries and everyone is crammed next to each other and the snoring and the voices and the diseases. What did you do there all the time? You were the mother of a six-year-old girl. What did you do? First of all, lots of dead hours. Telling stories, it beautifies the painful reality. I told her that we are here, but why are we here? I told her because they took all the most special children and put them in this place to protect them from these booms outside. You see, booms happen outside, but they