 I guess we're good huh yes I just started recording and we're live okay good evening everyone good evening working group good evening to those of you who are already joined with us if you are here to welcome you and hope everyone had a. A safe and healthy happy holiday season. We're looking forward to certainly a brighter new year. And with the work ahead of us. I think we are going to serve Amherst well in terms of what we're doing our meeting is starting. Officially at 535 it appears we have a quorum. So I would like to go ahead and do a roll call by voice of the membership. Miss pat. Yes. Welcome. Mr Bernie Jones. Here. Miss Owen. Here. Miss forever. Here. And this Alicia. Yeah, I'm not sure why my name is yeah I just I just said miss Alicia because I wanted to know I sort of oh and I said oh. Got a name change between meetings here. And. And Mr cage. Here. Welcome. Everyone. So. I'm going to do a very quick agenda review. We've got a lot of work ahead of us this evening and we did we've been meeting weekly. And because of the holiday and the need for some vacation time certainly deserved. We took last Wednesday off but we're back in business now and we have a full agenda this evening and a full. List of tasks we need to accomplish in the coming weeks. So we're going to get right to it. In this evening we're going to be. After public comment. Absolutely after approval the minutes and after public comment. I will check in with the members to see if they have some. Some thoughts. Some new things they may be doing or considering as it relates to the work of the working group. And then beyond that we'll move right to the action and discussion items. And we're going to be looking first at what is our current focus alternative ways of providing service or. Our policies and trainings and that's an important piece because this is also it defines the ongoing work of the committee of the working group. We're going to take a look as deeply as we can at the status of the Amherst police department outreach and next steps. Followed by community and citizen outreach and hearing form planning this I want to preface. The discussion by saying this is a key piece of our work because we want to be in conversation. And be responsive to and with our community. And these are the community, especially around policing in this particular situation. We're going to go to the overview of what we hope to have accomplished by mid February. And then we're going to look at our resources. We're going to look at our resources. We're collecting resources. We're collecting resources for resource support. We had talked in previous meetings about. The depth and intensity of the work. Before us and the town has been very willing. And able to support us in that work. And we have taken responsibility to come up with a proposal for consideration and discussion tonight about what we need. We're going to look at our resources. We receive a lot of input from people in the town. Certainly. We receive input from members. In the group about different things that we've seen as potential resources that inform our work. So we'll be talking about that and get an update. We'll review any upcoming events. We'll set our next meeting date. And then we'll move to adjourn. So. Given that. I'd like to please Ms. Moisten if we could move to the. The minutes of the December 23rd meeting. I will give. Everyone a minute or so to take a look at this, especially if there are any. People in the community viewing tonight. But certainly our own working group. If you're second to review. And then we'll check in to see if there are any. Corrections. At its comments. Someone might have to tell me when you guys are ready for me to scroll down. Okay. I think scroll down to maybe. Three. Yeah, right there. See where we are there. I'll kill you, Ms. Moisten. Thank you. And let me just check in with the, with the working group right now, rather than wait till the end of this stream. Anyone see anything. So far that they want to comment on or. Correct. Okay, Ms. Moisten, you can move forward, please. The next meeting. If you can get on the screen there. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Excuse me. Any comments from the working group. If you move down to. The next. Level CD. Okay. Move forward, please. Okay. I want to, I want to thank Ms. Moisten again for. Putting this effort in to take. Okay. Thank you, Ms. Moisten again for. Putting this effort in to take minutes for our meetings. Each time we meet. And also appreciate here for the thoroughness of. What we're able to. Record. In these meetings. Any. Any comments. Okay. Not hearing any, I'd like to move the, that we accept the minutes. Thank you. Thank you. Any comments from the working group? Of the. So 2320. Community safety working group. So move. Mr. Vernon Jones. Thank you for that motion. The second. Seconded. Who's that Ms. For Error. Thank you, Ms. For Error. And I'll. All those in favor of very quick role. Call here. Ms. Are you there? Yes, I can hear you now. Yeah, thank you. Oh, I'm sorry. It's okay. Mr. Vernon Jones. Aye. Ms. Walker. Ms. Owen. Mr. Cage. Aye. Pereira, did I get you? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Motion has been moved second in the past. Thank you. The minutes have been approved. I'd like to open the conversation up to the public for comment as a reminder to all of those who may be entering for the first time. We, as part of the open meeting policy, we open this part of the meeting up for public comment. Our role here is to listen and take in what you say. This is not a time for us to interact with you, but certainly a time for you to express your opinions, thoughts and comments and contributions. So if you would like to make a comment, please acknowledge yourself and Ms. Moisten able to patch you into the group. No one's hands raised as of yet. Okay. We'll wait a few minutes to see if anyone raises a hand. Okay. Okay. Seeing no hands. By the way, Ms. Moisten, this might be a good time to remind folks that if you do have comments, and we're gonna talk a little bit about the website later, but if you do have comments, thoughts that you wanna share with the working group, that you can access the website and our site on the website to have that conversation with us. Again, we'll talk about this a little bit later, but I just wanna remind people that that's another source of connection for us right now. So Ms. Moisten, we can go back to the agenda. Thank you. And so our first order of business is what is our current focus? Alternative ways of providing service or policies and trainings. I'd like to just open that up to the group. And before I do that, I wanna say that policies, service, I might even add procedures and practices are all very important with respect to providing support for the community and certainly for the people in our town who work here, certainly. And the training aspect is gonna be an important piece going forward. So this particular piece of our agenda is as important if not more important in some ways than even some of the others we've had in the past. So I'd like to open this up for comment from the working group and we'll move forward. Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, my impression was that our charge was broken into two parts and that our first report was due more about alternative service. And then the later in the year was the focus on policies and potential citizen oversight. But I wanted to check is that correct and is that what we're doing? And maybe we could ask the town manager to clarify what his understanding of our charge. Would you like me to pull up the charge? Yeah, I think that would be helpful. Okay. So in the meantime, I just wanted to kind of second what Russ said, that was my understanding too unless we have any other clarity. Mr. Bachman, you had your hand raised. Yeah, so I think, excuse me, if you go down to reports a little bit more, Jen, it is broken into two and the reason for that is that to look at alternative options for public safety services, because this is the time when we are building our budget for FY22 and it would be good for us to have a sense of where we think the town should be going for alternative services because that's something we would have to budget for. And we didn't wanna miss the opportunity for that because that's in my estimation, that was what was going to be the thing that would cost money and that we would have to figure out how to pay for. The oversight and policy reforms were something that were not budget related necessarily. It may be, but unlikely. And that was something that was a secondary that could be done at a different time. It's not that one was a higher priority than the other. It was just the timing of when we're building the budget and felt it was more important to talk about alternative services sooner than later. Thank you. Does that get to where you're going, Mr. Vernon Jones? It does, but I noticed as I looked at some of the answers from the police department, I could feel my attention being pulled to policy or to training or other things. And it feels like it's gonna take some discipline on our part if we're actually gonna stay focused on the alternative service piece now and put off the other pieces to a longer discussion when we've got a little more time during the spring. Okay. Thank you. Other comments from the group? Well, if I may, in response to Mr. Vernon Jones is that also, I think we're in a place now where January looks like we're going to be processing, collecting and processing lots of information. And some of that interaction and conversation with our community may impact this in some ways as well. So I think that your introduction to that comment is important at this time. Comments? I actually do. Can you hear me? Yes. I actually do. So I actually, I read everything in the packet that was sent by Ms. Marston, I believe yesterday or something like that. And in reading the questionnaire that was sent to the APD, although some of the responses were revealing, I was not surprised that some of the questions were not answered. So that's kind of frustrating for me if we're going to be talking about alternative ways of providing services. It's just my quick read on the questionnaire that was returned back. The status of the APD outreach and their response to the next steps is coming up next, but I'd certainly like to stay with that. If people have other comments in response to what Ms. Pat has offered. Mr. Cage, if you have your hand raised, we won't be able to see it. Just so our community and all of you who are supporting this work as the working group, Mr. Cage is revealing his commitment to the town of Amherst, he is on his way back from out of state. And I think you're doing this on your phone. Is that correct, Mr. Cage? Yeah, on my phone. So yeah, just let people know you are here. And so please chime in. Don't worry about hand raising if you have something to say, given the situation you're in. Appreciate you being here. Other comments to Ms. Pat? Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, I think I shared some of your disappointment at the, when I went through the questions from the APD, but then some of the material that Jennifer sent later has more charts with racial data and types of calls. I don't think we have everything we've asked for yet, but there seem to be more of it in some of the later appendices or additional documents. But I hope that the police chief is gonna be completing the task and trying to give us everything. I think as I remember from conversations we had earlier that we anticipated there might be a bit of a holiday lag around some of the, our ability to connect with folks. Certainly in to get responses. So to whatever degree we're considering that, I'd like to thank the police department for what they did send. I got it only a window into the response today for some technical issues I had on my end, but certainly the issues Ms. Pat you're bringing up and Mr. Vernon Jones are real. And I wanna be sure that if these are gaps that need to be filled in terms of information and those gaps when they're filled are gonna be essential for helping us move forward, then I would hope that we'd pursue those. And speaking directly to Ms. Pat in this way, if there's something that was not there that you really needed us to see, I hope we can recalibrate and make sure that happens as well as Mr. Vernon Jones. And I think Ms. Ferrero you've had your hand up so I don't wanna. Yeah, I mean, I think I had some of the same technical difficulties that you had because I was trying to review it last night and I couldn't open the zip drive. And then today, obviously I'm at work until, actually I was at work until 520. So I didn't have any chance to look at the agenda with the information on the police. So for me, I'd like to really, we need to delve into this information. I mean, it can be a cursory look, we need to delve into this information and kind of see, okay, what did they provide? What didn't they provide? And what do we need to ask them for more? You know what I'm saying? If we need to ask them for clarifications or more information. So I really would like to kind of have some time to actually look through it, because I didn't, because I couldn't. And then two, by when should we look at it? And then so that we can send them a response because I think that that's the way we need to address it, so that we can really kind of pin it down as opposed to kind of being very general. Well, go ahead, Mr. Vernon Jones and then Ms. Owen. Oh, I was only nodding my head in agreement with Deborah. Oh, I thought I heard your voice. That was my voice. I was going to say, I kind of want to say something that Ms. Debra just said in terms of, when do we get the report? And I know Ms. Marston have a lot on her plate, but there are some people who may not have access to printer. Some of us do, and was wondering if it's possible to even send hard copies of the documents to us before the next meeting, so that for some people who may not be able to do that, it might cost them money trying to print it somewhere else, something for us to think about. And then we'll be prepared to come to meetings. I mean, I happened to read it, I was able to open the zip, I was able to find another way to download the documents, but it wasn't easy for everybody. Just want to put that out. Yeah. Okay, so they- Marston, if I may, I'm sorry, but I think Ms. Owen had her hand up. Oh, I was just going to bring up, I was wondering if we would maybe be able to have a chance to meet with the police, because I did start looking through the zip and some of the information that was on the third attachment specifically, I found it kind of contradicting to like what I see online and what I actually see in the community. So I think it would be helpful to actually meet with them once we have maybe like questions of concern that weren't answered in the zip drive. Okay, let me come back to that Ms. Owen, if you don't mind. I think that's an important question. I think we're, as this conversation's unfolding, it looks like we're trying to hone in on what is essential here for us to know and have access to in terms of information. So if I could just hang on to that for just a minute, I will come back to it. Ms. Moisten. So the chief sent the information yesterday and so I forwarded it as soon as I could get it into the zip drive to you guys. If there are folks who need stuff printed, then I should probably, if they could reach out and send me an email and then I can print it out and find a way to get it to you other than the United States Postal Service because I don't wanna have to send it through the mail because that would take up too much time. But if you need stuff printed, we can do that and you just have to let me know. Okay. And I will try not to send stuff in zip files. It wouldn't let me send the file. I don't know why it was emailed to me but it wouldn't let me email it to you all in the way that it was. It said that it was too big. Actually, I'm gonna go back to what Ms. Ferrera said. I had a double whammy, Ms. Ferrera, this afternoon. I was starting around noon time. I was not receiving emails. I realized since Monday night, you know, you look in your email, excuse me for personalizing this a little bit but just to put it in context, you look in your emails and for somebody who gets like a lot of emails every day, get any for like 36 hours, you know something. Wow. You know there's a problem. I could send as everything I wanted to send, I couldn't receive it. So here's a double whammy, Ms. Ferrera. I finally got it. I told Ms. Moisten this this afternoon, two and a half hours on the phone with Microsoft. Oh, wow. And then I got it and I could hardly, I could just barely open it. So I kind of just, okay, I went and just had a cup of tea. I will read it, but I just, I got a little bit of it. But so yeah, getting back to a couple of things. Ms. Pat's comment about needing more time. Ms. Owen, I wanna come back to your comment about meeting with the police department. I'd like to maybe deal with those two topics since we just received this information and it's this substantial amount of information. It sounds like we do need to look at it. And I guess my question would be, what lens do we need to look at it through? How long do we wanna take looking at it? And maybe I would like to introduce the question Ms. Owen is asking is after we do that and in some way can we collate that information if it's, if we decide to go that way and have a conversation with the Amherst Police Department. I know there are a lot of other things on our agenda. So I'm just putting that out there to recognize those two points being made and see what the group has to say about that. I mean, I don't wanna, can you see me? Yes. I can see you. And sometimes when your hand raises it goes off the screen. So I don't see you. Oh it does, okay. I mean, I don't wanna take up all the time tonight, but having looked at the material myself I felt a little bit overwhelmed and seriously given the timeframe that we have I'm almost thinking maybe this is the time to discuss resources. I think that would be where to start first because if we are going to be looking at all the data we got from the Amherst Police by ourselves it's been to take us two months. If we're meeting weekly, two hours every week it's not sustainable. I mean, I am with Ms. Owen that for us to meet with the APD, the analyzing and decoding the material that we have I think we should have some resources to help us do that. That does a lot. I mean, I looked at the racial profiling it's one of the areas I have keen interest. When you look at that, they will say what is this group doing? Blacks were not stopped as much compared to the census. I met census in 2010, for example. So why are you complaining about? So I looked at some of the data from a parent of color lens and it just didn't add up for me. For example, when I look at the data but I know some of you haven't read it but I just feel we need somebody who has professional skills in analyzing data to put the thing to make sense to us. If I may respond and certainly others may respond to this too Ms. Pat I think that one of the things is we did just receive it. It's a substantial amount of information and I'm getting the sense at least from a couple of the members of the group that we'd like some more time to absorb it and reflect upon it. It was really important in my opinion to have the working group as a whole very familiar with this information. And maybe, we are talking about, I know Ms. Ferrera developed a resource proposal which is in our agenda today and that document was sent to us and we wanna get to that. But I think it's important for us to have a good working knowledge of what the police department is saying to us where the gaps are and where they have to be filled how we're gonna fill them, who's gonna fill them? And I think that's the resource piece that you're talking about. But I think the first step is for us to be familiar with it so that we have first access basically. We have first, that's our responsibility to look at this information that we asked them for. So if we get that information we're able to figure it out in terms of what it is. Then the question is, you're adding a different question but it's going back to Ms. Owens question do we wanna go back to the police department and say, hey, here's what we've gotten from this report. Thank you very much. Here's what we acknowledge that we've got. Thank you. We could use that. Here's where the gaps are. We need to find out why they're there possibly or are they able to fill those gaps? Certainly. And it's a soft merge but how to merge that with the resources you're talking about Ms. Pat because I think at that point, if there's more to be gathered maybe that falls into line with what Ms. Ferrer was talking about in terms of resources. But I would want us to have full knowledge of what that information is ourselves as a working group before going any further than that. Let me go back to Ms. Owens and then Ms. Ferrer about the meeting with the police department. Have your thoughts still solid on that? They're not concrete. I just started reading like thoroughly through everything. I didn't get through all of it but what I got from what I did read that there aren't gaps so far. So like for example, in the third attachment there's a section where they talk about sector-based policing and sector-based policing is when you allocate different resources as a proactive way to stop crime. And they talked about being connected to different organizations. But then for example, when I went on their social media pages the only organizations that I saw that they were attached to were the senior center and something for animals. So it just, I don't know. It didn't, it just felt like something didn't add up there. And I didn't finish all of the attachment so maybe I could be wrong but just reading it so far it just kind of felt like maybe they think that there are no gaps or that's what this report is telling us. Cause they briefly scanned over the racial profiling one as well. And that's kind of what I got. Okay. I missed the hand also that was raised the same time I was calling on you. Ms. Ferrara, thank you. Oh, yeah. So I definitely, I agree with Ms. Owen that we need to meet with the police but my question is when, right? Because one, like I said, we still need to kind of pour over this information. And I agree as a committee, I was the working group we need to kind of at least read through it even though maybe some analysis or kind of comparisons may need to be done by someone that hopefully will end up hiring as a consultant but at least we need to kind of read through this but like quickly, obviously like I said I didn't get a chance to read it but of course it says here that like they in their response with their questions the read and writing they said they need more time to research or need more specifics to answer. So I think first we need to read through it see what the gaps are and kind of say, hey, you know you didn't answer XYZ PDQ. So we need more information and also give them more information in terms of like all right, you know how much time do you need to research? We need this information by this, you know what more specifics do you need in order to answer the questions? You see what I'm saying? I think we need to get into a dialogue with them first to kind of see if they'll clarify what they sent. And then for me, I'd like to talk to them after we've had that kind of a little bit of a back and forth, right? Then talk to them hopefully they provide us more information then talk to them and also I'd like to hear from the community where we're about to have two forums, you know I like to hear from the community and then talk to them, you know what I'm saying and be like, okay, listen we've heard from the community we've gotten some back and forth from you all in terms of, you know some responses, but we still feel there's some gaps. All right, this is what we need some answers for, you know and kind of engage so that we're more knowledgeable, I guess and we've given them an opportunity to really kind of give us information. That's what I would think, that's my opinion. My response and then I have a question for the group and specifically to a couple of people but I think it's our responsibility to all be well versed in what they gave us. We asked them for it. We all should have the opportunity make the opportunity I should say to read it thoroughly analyze it thoroughly. I don't know how long that has to be a quick turnaround certainly but we have to honor the request and so I think honoring the question needs to be us be all informed about that and I think this is feeding into what what you're saying is for error and so on. And then I don't know, I saw a couple of head nods but yeah, it would be great to have a conversation with them about this that would further inform the process going forward. That and the fact that I think we were talking about if we're having a forum on next Wednesday then it would be important for us to let the community know too that we're actively engaged with the Amherst Police Department. This is not just something like we're doing these sort of technical surveys and things that we're having we're in conversation with the Amherst Police Department as much as we are in conversational will be with the community. And I think we're weak and we can interface that. I didn't want to ask because I want to be sure I'm hearing all the voices here. Mr. Cage, I hope you're driving. If you're driving, I hope you're paying attention. No, he's not driving. He's not driving. Okay, Mr. Cage. Oh yeah, it's just a little, it's a little sad to keep it I'm hearing it and I agree. Okay, I wanted to just make sure I heard from you and certainly anyone else, certainly Ms. Walker I want to be sure all the voices are in this conversation because we're going to make a decision on what we do next soon. Yeah, I agree with Ms. Ferrara. And I think that we obviously should go over everything decide what it is that we need more information on. And I think that the forums will also help to inform us as to what else we would want to know from the police department. So I think it might be helpful to wait till we heard from them to go back in another formal conversation with the police department. Thank you, Ms. Walker. Mr. Cage. Yeah, I agree with what Ms. Walker had to say. I feel like before we, like if we just hear the police police aside, we wouldn't get a full understanding. And I feel like we would get like much more clarity if we hear from the forum and what the people actually have to say. Okay. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Cage. Any other comments from the group? Okay, it sounds like we're moving toward a couple of things. One is... Mr. Vernon Jones had his hand. Oh, I'm sorry. I was switching screens back to the voice. I'm sorry, Mr. Vernon Jones. My proposal would be we give ourselves, I don't know, 10 days to read everything, write down what we think we still need to know either because we asked for it and they didn't answer it or their answer isn't clear or we think of new questions and get those in writing to somebody, the Jennifer or you or me, whatever and submit that to the police and get another written response from them and then invite them to come talk to us. I like that suggestion. I think that gives us, certainly gives us time to study it. I think it promotes the seriousness of what we're trying to do, certainly. And I think a conversation with them is important. I think we're connecting with them electronically. And I think we wanna engage this process a little more deeply and a little more personally and professionally. So this would give us an opportunity to have that. Mr. Vernon Jones, in terms of what you're suggesting, I don't know if you wanna turn that into a motion, but if there's no objection, I'd like to request a motion to follow that path because I think it's consistent with what we're doing, where we're trying to go. If there's any, if people see that differently than I do, then please let me know. But if we could see there's a motion we can move on, then that would move this agenda item forward for us and we can get to the police department. So I guess I just have a point of clarity in terms of what Mr. Vernon Jones said. So in terms of the time, right? For us to review it and then kind of create any of the questions that we have or gaps, that we have in terms of what they submitted. I guess my thing would be, okay, we're going to make sure that it includes kind of like these two forums, like the time span includes those two forums so that then we kind of send up our next set of either questions or issues or whatever to them. I guess that would be my point of clarity to kind of ask about that in terms of the timing. Or are we going to do it before then and then ask them again, because I can foresee more questions coming out of us having those two forums. Definitely. Mr. Vernon Jones, you want to respond to that in light of what you were suggesting in terms of the timeframe? Well, I mean, my only thought is, we got a lot of work coming up and maybe if we could do as much as we can on their responses so far, then have the two forums and add additional questions. And maybe then is when we send it to them a second time. So as we're talking about, would it be silly to think that we could review this and get responses from the working group to their initial, to the police department's original response and submit that to maybe a couple of members of the group by, I don't know. I'm pushing this a bit, but even Monday to say, let's look at this, let's get some feedback. And as I'm saying this, I'm not putting myself out there. I would be happy to be the person, receiving some of this information. And I would welcome the support of someone else to work with me on that, to collate that feedback from the group so that maybe by Tuesday, we have it before the forum that we're having on the 13th. And then we can set up a meeting with the police department at whatever time we can do that. I don't know if that's pushing too much between that forum and setting up a meeting and then having another forum on Saturday. But I think there's a bit of an urgency around getting to this report that they've gotten back to us. So I welcome your comments and thoughts on that. Well, I wanna be clear. I'm suggesting that we get additional written responses from them before we actually meet with them. So the written responses, okay. Yeah. I agree with that too. We should get like additional written responses from them before we meet with them. Mr. Bachman. So I'm just looking at a calendar and if you are doing your forums on the 13th and the 16th and by then you should be getting, if you're able to follow the timeframe you laid out, which was to detail additional information you want, you can schedule the police department in say on the 27th of January, for instance, and then maybe use the 20th to talk to other groups that you might wanna invite. And I think it sounds like in January, you're doing sort of listening to public before you start to really, you wanna hear what the issues are that you really want to address. So that could be one path that you could do is, you know, your public sessions on the 13th and 16th, the 20th, you could invite, who choose who you would like to invite in terms of service providers or things like that that may not show up unless they are invited. And then the 27th, you go to the police because that will give them time to get information to you in advance of the meeting on the 27th. So you have time to digest it. You'll want that by the 20th, I would guess. That's it. Okay. And that changes what I said because I think I've misfired on that. Mr. Vernon-Jones, when you said written response, I, you know, so yeah. Comments from the group. Ms. Walker. I like Mr. Baldwin's suggestion for the timeline for inviting the police department and then having another form where we invite other groups to come speak with us. But I think that if we also wanted to get more written responses from the police department before we met with them, that we could still go with Mr. Wiley's suggestion of having, if everyone can review the documents and get additional questions or gaps outlined by that next, by the Monday coming. Cause that would still give us time to send them out and receive them before the 27th when we would meet with them. Thank you, Ms. Walker. Other comments, Ms. Forever. Yeah. I mean, I just want to be realistic though in terms of that, you know? I mean, obviously if everyone's fine with Monday, you know, I'll do what I can to get it in by then. But I want us to make sure we have enough time to really review that information and review it well. I would say like, you know, get everything to, you know, get any feedback by like the 13th to whomever if it's to you, Mr. Wiley and whomever else get any other questions or gaps and things like that. And then like I said, for me, I would rather hear the two forms and then make sure we finalize any questions or whatever that we have to them by the 19th or something like that and then send it out to them. You know, like the 19th or whatever. And then give them until the 20th, you know, give them until like a week or whatever, you know, the 25th or something or a couple of days because then that will be just, you know, kind of asking them for responses back, couple of days for them to respond back and then meet with them, I guess, on the 27th, something like that, you know? I just want us to have a little bit more time to review that information than to like rush through it. Exactly, exactly. And I think originally I said Tuesday, but, you know, I'm not a lot of other people, other people have lots of things to do. I don't have that much to do. So I can just read that. That's not true. But let me, and I hope this isn't, I hope this is feeding, we're trying to come to a decision on this because it's an important piece. So now we're, you know, we're in agreement, certainly that we all need to review and digest this information. We're all in agreement that we need to look at it through a lens of saying, you know, what do we have? What's missing? And define those as gaps in the information coming to us from the Amherst Police Department. Any other questions we might want to raise at that particular point. I think we have to agree on if we're going to do that and I think we should do that, certainly. But we should talk about when is that stuff going to be expected? And I'm going to put myself up there. When can I expect to get that information from you? And again, I'd encourage someone to work with me on that, certainly. And when can we make it available to Ms. Moyston so that, you know, we can all see it before it takes the next step? Ms. Owen. I just want to throw out there. I'm more than happy to help you with the questions for this. Okay. Anyone else like to join in the fray? What fray? I just want to say that the Monday that you suggested is fine. Okay, I said Tuesday. I said Monday, right? I said Tuesday. Tuesday, okay. Someone else said Wednesday. Ms. Owen. Can I make a suggestion also for Wednesday too, just because like when I first started reading it, like for example, like the sector-based policing, it was something I had to like research into to like understand the terms. So I think Wednesday would give us enough time to like thoroughly read through everything. Okay. Okay, I would, I'd like to maybe put that forward and I appreciate Ms. Pat about the Monday thing. I mean, I think that expresses the urgency that we have, so not to dismiss that certainly, but if we're feeling that it might be Wednesday that we need, I'd like to propose that. And let me just go ahead and say like, if I propose that Ms. Owen and I receive your comments in response to the report from the Amherst Police Department, your comments and questions by, let me just say Wednesday noon, possibly, if that's okay, that she and I will get together and collate that information and compile it and get it to Ms. Moisten. I want to say maybe reasonably Ms. Moisten by Thursday, because maybe Thursday afternoon, because it would take a little time to sort of sift through that ourselves. And then we get it back out to the working group. Does that sound reasonable to folks? Yeah, and I think it'll be helpful to Mr. Wiley and Ms. Owen that, you know, like what you were saying, Ms. Pat, if you're able to get it done early, I think whoever can get it done before then, get it done before then. Earlier, the better. Because that will have them out too, so. Mr. Vernon Jones had his hand up and then Ms. Pat. I totally support that idea and would also suggest that where the information we want is, was originally requested in our list of questions that we send our questions to you, referencing how they fit to the original list of questions and the police chief's memo. I mean, there may be additional ones, but the ones that are already there someplace, if we would make it clear where it fits in, it will be, it would be much easier, I think for you all to put it together. Thank you. Appreciate that. I like the emphasis on the word easier. I heard that in your voice. Other comments. I mean, yeah. Yes, Ms. Pat. And for me, I like group process. And I'm in, I tried to keep open mind. But because of the, my previous experience with a different group, racial profiling group, and having read some of the, most of the document. Yeah, let's go through the process. But just preparing everybody. That we're not going to get. What we're looking for. Unfortunately. And I'm trying to be, to keep open mind that. Looking at the racial profiling data. For example. I mean, it's just the faith. Our purpose of even meeting when people read that. Oh, there's no racism in Amherst. It's what that document will tell you. So. That's a lot. And maybe I think that defines a very serious gap for you. It does. I mean, I'm listening. I want to. Yeah. Support our process. We'll see where it takes up to. And I'm a very positive person. But. Yeah. It seems like this. Second round for me. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I, and I think this is again, this is our charge and our responsibility. One of the words that I saw in our, in our. Run our charge was examined. And I think when we examine things, we go deeper than what we've done before. So, you know, a gap. That you may have mispacked. Maybe 40 feet wide where somebody else's gap might be 20 feet wide. That's right. And I think we ought to be very candid and very open and very transparent with our police department because if we're not. Then it doesn't help them. And vice versa. And I think that's what we're trying to arrive at that. That. That. Medium. So I certainly, you know, take that into account as well as the other committee members. I'm sure Ms. Yeah. And I just want to like, you know, kind of agree with you, Miss Pat. I mean, you know, obviously some of this can be very frustrating. I know that obviously in terms of doing work like this, it's always, you know, the uphill, you know, kind of battle about it. But I think that's why for me, I want to really, you know, kind of take the time to review everything and where we have. And I think what's going to be important is that where we as a group have questions, however little it is, I think we want to bring it up. You know, we really want to look at that information with a fine tooth comb and really be inquisitive about everything that they sent there. And if you, and those kinds of questions, Miss Pat, that you're bringing up, we want to ask that, right? So where did you come up with these figures? Where did, you know, how did you get that? How, you know, really be picky because this is our opportunity, right? We've been charged by the time to do this. So we need to kind of really hone in and ask them those detailed questions for this second round. And then let's, let, let, let them, you know, come back and say, hey, I don't have it because then when we meet with them, we're going to be like, oh, why don't you have it? Okay. What's going on? And because for me, that's the thing. My whole thing is being inquisitive and keep pressing. Right? We have to keep pressing and there's going to, it's going to be a process. It's going to be some steps. But if they're, if they're not forthcoming, if we keep pressing and they're not forthcoming, that's going to be telling in and of itself. And if I may, it may add to that too. And that's well taken. You know, certainly by me and others, again, I saw some of our head nods there. But certainly some of the questions we may ask might be opening up a window to the police department that they never even considered. And I think that's an important thing to feature to because, you know, that, that, that question that we ask, it's, it's the gap that Ms. Ms. Pat's talking about. It's the information that you're talking about, but they say, you know, oh, we don't have it because we never even thought about it. Okay. And so that's going to be a, you know, or we weren't required to have it, one of those kind of responses. But so then that informs the process going forward. I think this whole idea of being inquisitive. You know, certainly like that, that word inquisitive and being, you know, in an examining mode, then I think it just opens up a lot of things. So let me move forward with this because we've got a few other things. So are we in agreement that folks will submit some things, some information to us. So we've got a response to the report taking into account Mr. Vernon Jones comment about being, and maybe you can articulate this better than me, Mr. Vernon Jones, but referencing exactly where your, your, your gap questions or whatever it may be are related to a particular section or item. I may not be articulating that right, but I'm going to be very specific about where you're, you're focusing your, your, your comments so that it helps them focus on their response. And it helps us to, to collate information. I guess that's a, that's a question I guess. I wanted, I didn't want to misspeak on your suggestion. Okay. So if we could all do that. I'm going to submit them please by to, and now again, Ms. Moise, these have to go through you. They're going to send them to you. Okay. And then you're going to send them to me. Okay. So everybody will send them individually, right? It's not that they're sending them as a group. Can they, can the folks send them to Ms. Oh, and me. You're okay with that. That sounds okay. Correct, Paul. You're on mute. Just for open meeting law, probably best to be sent to Jen and then she can distribute that. It's a weird little quirk that you're not supposed to communicate with each other outside the balance of the meeting. I just want to be clear. I want to do it the right way. I don't want to backfire on us. So, so we should submit these items to you, Ms. Moisten. Submit to me and that date is Wednesday, the 13th. Yes, by noon time. I will forward. And then you guys will give it back to me. Correct. I'll send it to you. I'll send it to you. I'll send it to you. I'll send it to you. I'll send it to you. I'll send it to you. I'm understanding it and I'll resend it out. So you'll get it. You'll send it to me. And Ms. Oh, and Ms. Oh, and here. I don't know how many people you can send it to at one time here. Yes. And Ms. Oh, both of us would be preferable. That'd be great. Perfect. And then we'll do a quick turnaround. I guess to, you know, Ms. Moisten. And we'll get that to the committee. And then we'll do a quick turnaround. And then we'll do a quick turnaround. And then we'll do a quick turnaround. Accurate to the working group. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Mr. Cage. Does that sound good to you as well? And will someone fill in Ms. Bowman about it so that she knows. Definitely. Yeah. I just thank you, Ms. For I just made a note of that about that on my, on my pad here. So Mr. Cage, I, I, I, I, we didn't hear you. I think you're. I'll let him know. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. I appreciate it. Okay. So we're good with that, everybody. I think if I'm not mistaken, we, we might be down to the, although we did talk a little bit about it here and there, we might be down to the. Hearing slash forum planning. Just before we leave that discussion, can we tentatively agree on the timeline that. Mr. Bowman proposed. That the 20th might be a time we would meet with some other groups and we would alert the police. We would be looking to meet with them on the 27th. I had written. That's fine with me. I think that's, that's a, that's a good suggestion. Others want to comment on that before we go forward with that decision as well. Ms. Ms. Moisten and Ms. Farera. Do you guys know which groups you would like to invite? Because then you don't meet on the 13th. It's a forum. Right. So I just. Yeah, I don't know right now. I thought we agreed to invite. People of color first. No. Well, it was. I think by BIPOC was our focus. But we'd have to, we have to. Put some frame around that. Like what? What is that? You know, and how is it coming from organizations and or people? I thought we made it less. That was compiled. No. I have a list. Mm hmm. Of. Sorry, Pat. Go ahead. I'm sorry. No, I'm done. So I, I've been contemplating. I spoke with both Paul's about this. There is a long running list of. Programs, organizations, individuals, um, but I'm hesitant to put it on the web or to send it to you individually. Cause once I send it to you guys, then I have to put it on the web, but there's lots of also individuals on that list. Who I don't know necessarily want to be subjected to the open meeting law. So there's some children, not children, but there are some young adults and there are some, you know, still high school age students on that list. So I have one compiled. I don't mind taking their addresses off, but I'm a little hesitant to put the, some of the individuals on, on the list, because it's then an open public document, which was part of when I was going to speak about resources, what I was going to talk about. Okay. That makes sense. Okay. But if anyone individually would like to know about the list, then please feel free to call me and we can have a conversation. And if there's people that you would like to see on it, then I can, if they're not already on that list, I can make sure they're on the list. Well, isn't that partly a list of people we're inviting to come and potentially speak at the forums on the 13th and the 16th. It could very well be if that's what you would like, but I, and I can send out invitations, but so the list has still has these names on it of people. Who I don't know if you've talked to any of them to say, are you okay with your name being as a part of a public record? If you send them an invitation, does that have to be a public record? No, no. So sending them an invitation and then sharing the list of, of people that you guys might want to speak to are, are separate things because it's not going to you. I'm, I'm doing that piece of it. So if we have, we have to say, we have 10 community members in Amherst that we collectively want to invite on the 20th, let's say, we give you their information, you can send them an invitation. And before doing that, we were also asking them if they might, were they be willing to, I don't know what the question is now, would they be willing to have their, their information available to the public? I would, I will redact their phone number, their contact info, their addresses and stuff like that. Okay. With the redaction, would they be willing to have their name made public? So getting back to the BIPOC question, in terms of the list that we have, how representative is that list of BIPOC organizations and individuals in our community? And I don't know if that's a fair question at the moment, but I can't, I don't have a list in front of me right now, but. So the individuals are, the majority are from the BIPOC community. I think there's about one or two people who fall outside of the BIPOC community on the individuals list. On the organizational list that it's probably a quarter, but so there's like an NAACP and then the organizations that the schools have and a few other organizations, but the rest of them are places like the Amherst survival center or safe passages or just different organizations that have been sent. I can pull the list up. So why, why this question is saying that so that everybody knows, we don't have NWSCP currently. We don't want Ms. Pan. I'm sorry. There is no NWSCP currently. We don't have enough membership. Didn't know that. Yeah. Can I just plug in something? If people really want NWSCP to be active in our mess, I will encourage you guys to, you know, become a member. Thank you. Just a quick question about that. So Ms. Pan, is Kathleen Anderson still running it though? The NWSCP? So the way it works, you have to have certain number of membership. I actually have a discussion with her before we even made the first time I contacted her. And because we don't have enough members with legally not, we don't exist in our mess. Yeah. But she is still the president before our membership depth down. So if we have more members, then we can, you know, go from there. Thanks. Yep. So the point I'm trying to make Ms. Moistiness, you know, we will not be able to have NWSCP for sale to come and present to us. Thank you. Ms. Pat is, so Ms. Moistiness, were you working on putting up a list we could look at? Or not? Oh, so it's all in combined into one long list. So like I have it separated by programs. And then I have the individuals underneath it. So I can, if you would like, you know, cut it in half later tomorrow and send it to you guys tomorrow of the organizations. I just won't send you the individuals. I just don't feel like that's the, I don't like that. Okay. That sounds reasonable. I can read them if you would like me to. Go ahead. Okay. So it starts off with the school. So we have the Amherst regional high school and middle school guidance department. Minority student achievement network. The Amherst, the Poku. There's a bridge for resilient youth and transition coordinate coordinator over at the high school. Diego Sharon, the principal at arms, Evelyn Aquino, the climate and culture coordinator, Liz Hey, good teacher, Marta Guevara, the director of student and family engagement, Mary custard, the Dean at the high school, the principal at the high school. And I'm sorry. Deborah does. Tim still work at the school. I have him under the school. I just wanted to make sure. Yeah, he still does. Yeah. Okay. I have him at the school as opposed to an individual. Yeah. And then for programs and organizations, I have Amherst community community connections, Amherst family outreach, the League of Women Voters, the survival center, behavioral health net, boys and girls clubs, center for women in community, CHD, chief living stone, chief Nelson, Craig stores. And then we have the fund for one three dial self, the human rights commission, Jesse's house, Julius Ford, Harriet Tubman, healthy living community. But I had a hard time finding contact information for that program because it's underneath another program. So if anybody has contact info, please forward. I will remove that. I won't remove the NAACP, but I'll say not active. New England learning center for women in transition, policing review commission, not bread alone, Pioneer Valley, Casa court appointed special advocates, Pioneer Valley coalition for suicide prevention, race matter found by founder Michael Burkhart, race equity task force reparations for Amherst, safe passage, safe plan, planning the four domestic violence court advocate, school equity task force service net and thrive works. Wow. Just processing some of that list in my head right now. It was a little hard. I know because I was reading it. I'm trying to, trying to make an assessment of whether we may have covered the essential ground with the BIPOC community. I think I'd need to take a minute, you know, quote unquote to look at that. I mean, not in my mind, but in front of me to, to give that some thought. I don't know about other people. Yeah, because from that list, we'd need to really kind of figure out which ones are the BIPOC organization, right? And then invite those first and do the other organizations in our second round. Yeah. And in that second round is fair for me just add to that. And I think that's an extremely good point is that there's some of these, some of these agencies and organizations that actually serve BIPOC community in certain ways that are very supportive, but it's just hard to call that out and just looking at their name necessarily. We don't know who their, the clientele are. We can make some assumptions about it certainly, but we wouldn't want to go that far. I guess my question, Miss Marston. Thank you for reading the names for us. And I guess my question is, do we really need to invite all the organizations? It's my question, you know, can some of them answer our questions? I mean realistically, you know, do we have enough time to invite all these groups? And I don't want to call out specific organizations, organization and matheme thing. Yes. They might be serving some BIPOC population, but I mean, can they answer questions for us instead of them coming to present? I'm just saying, I mean, I am personally feeling urgency of time. I don't know how other people are feeling, but yeah. Yeah. My suggestion would be that we invite the ones that help us get a picture of the experience of BIPOC people in particular and amourst. And that we save inviting the agencies till we're a little further along in our thinking about alternative means of providing services. We're now sort of at the, how do people experience the town and policing here? And there's a later question about, you know, how do we, you know, is there some different way to organize services? But that we hold off on the ones that are sort of social service agencies until we're more focused on that second question. That sounds fairly similar. If I'm not misspeaking Ms. Farera to what you were suggesting. Yeah, I think so. Because, you know, I think, yeah, some of these kind of organizations or even some of the people that are tied to the school system, I think we'd want to hear from them or, you know, who are BIPOC, you know, I think we'd want to kind of get there. Yeah. Yeah. And I respect the work that local organizations do, but if the person in the top is a Caucasian, I don't know about that. So we should do it according to priority, like BIPOC organization first, and then we'll see how, how much time we have for the rest of the organization. So, so given this conversation, I want to just, just reel back a little bit and not, not abandoning this conversation, but we have a forum coming up on the 13th and we have people we're inviting as moist into this. We have people we're inviting to this first forum. I can invite the individuals that I have. That are on the list here. Yeah, I didn't know if we, I don't remember if we had made any decisions about who, because this forum is coming up on the 13th. It's coming pretty quickly. We have another one on the 16th and I'm wondering, you know, after we throw that net out, how many of who's left in terms of agencies in particular that are going to filter down into the 20th, which they may not because if we're going to do BIPOC folks. I would propose that we invite everyone on our list. To come either on the 13th or the 16th. So that they actually have two dates and they can choose the one that works the best for them. And I think there's maybe, maybe we're not prepared to actually plan the 20th yet. I don't think so. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I think it'll be dependent on, you know, what we're going to do. I mean, I don't think it's going to go up to the 13th and 16th. I mean, the only other way that we could do it would be if we were still going to just invite the folks, you know, that we haven't on our list to the 13, 16. And then, you know, if they don't show up also invite them to the 20th. You see what I'm saying, but. I don't know if that's like overkill. Yeah, well, this is going back to a conversation we had earlier about inviting everybody and having them sign up. I mean, I think we're going to be coming back to where we were at some earlier point. And I think Mr. Bernard Jones, you had made that suggestion earlier too. About that way. I've been just inviting folks and. Saying we're going to have it and sign up for it. And we're going to run it. I think the, the work behind that also is. You know what, what are going to be some of the guiding questions or. What are going to be the catalyst for our discussion. That we're going to invite people to, to be. Able to respond in an open transparent and candid way and feel that they're heard. So that's just a sidebar, but Miss Walker. I agree with Mr. Vernon Jones and that I think we should just invite everyone on the list and give them both of the dates. Because there are going to be some people who can't come to the table. We don't know who's coming ahead of time either. So I think it will filter themselves out. But the conflict that I have with that though, is that I also agree with Miss Pat and that we should prioritize. The BIPOC community. And I don't know how exactly we would do that if we don't know who's coming ahead of time. And if we just open invite and wait and see who shows up and how we would facilitate. And how much time we give people to speak and things like that. Good point. Good point. Other comments. Thank you, Miss Walker. Yeah, I think, I think we just need to kind of delve into, okay, what are we doing for the 13th and 16th? Cause time is ticking. And then that could inform whatever else we're going to do on the 20th. You know, I think the only thing that we could say for sure is that I guess we want to invite the police on the 27th. But I think we need to kind of focus on the 13th and 16th. I mean, the MS school system have some BIPOC folks. They raise something down the line racial equity. Also have BIPOC people. So identify some of the organizations that. I'm heavily BIPOC people. So, I have a pretty good list. I mean, a good idea of who those. Yeah. At the school level and the organizational level. Yeah. Yeah, we're going to invite them to the 13th and 16th too. Right. I think we should start from, from there. We should start with BIPOC people and then. Yeah. We should start with BIPOC people. We should start with BIPOC. Organizations. Yeah. Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, I am totally in agreement with hearing from BIPOC people first. At the same time, I think. We have to, we're going to make a public announcement of the 13th and 16th is open forums. Right. So we have to think about what we're going to do once we get there. And we've got a bunch of people. I think we can legitimately make a statement. That we have decided that we want to hear from marginalized. Groups that are often marginalized first. And. Be very explicit about explaining why we're choosing to do that. Call on BIPOC people. That's true. So we have to think about what we're going to do once we get on BIPOC folks first. With an understanding that if we get, if there's time left, we'll invite others to speak as well. But we need to, I think have a kind of explicit statement about that. And we also need to decide, you know, are we going to set some time limit for. Each person's comments. Yeah. Who's going to call on people. Yeah, that was the, the facilitation piece we never really kind of landed on. But. And again, this is a resourcing piece. I think certainly. But I think just going back just to baseline here, I think we do open this up. To the people on the list. I think the process facilitation part, I think Mr. Vernon Jones you're referring to is that, you know, we could do that and be very intentional. About that. And, and, and I think without, and being fair certainly about it, but being very intentional. About the, you know, our intent to, to. You know, allow the voices of marginalized. People to, to be elevated and heard at that moment. And I think it's a facilitation process. It's, it's, it's a very good idea actually. So again, I think that's that invitation is broad. And I think if we will figure out from who responds to the list, who's left. And we have another on Saturday, maybe, maybe it'll, maybe we'll be lucky and we'll get everybody. We'll get everybody. We'll get everybody. We'll get everybody. We'll get people between Wednesday and Saturday, I would hope. But beyond that, if we're going to go to the 20th, we still have another opportunity. To invite people. And I guess this is somewhere, Mr. Bachman related to the, the press release too. I mean, we haven't gotten to that yet, but we, I don't know if you all had a chance to, to see that, but I think it's a good idea. I think it's a good idea. I think it's a good idea. I think it's a good idea to draft for the group. And maybe this would be a good time to look at it to see if we can. Put that out there. We need to get that out there. Like a minute ago. Kind of thing. To make sure we, we get people. And we offered that as our best take on what we think we might do on that day. And we're going to be really, really, really, really happy to have people. Have people had a chance to see it. Just reading quickly. The only thing. That I'm seeing it when. It says in late January that will submit an interim progress report. Is that what we're doing? I thought we were going to be asking for an extension into February. That could be very accurate. And I think we were trying to. Time this in some way. And I guess this is a partial question to you, Mr. Backelman. With the preparation of the budget. I don't know if that's accurate or not. So, so I think the interim report can be. We, I think I need to report to the council and the interim report could be something like there's, they are working. They continue to work very hard. They had, you know, two public forums, but they will need more time. That's the report. That's the final report. I don't know if that's accurate or not. I don't know if that's accurate or not. It doesn't need to be like a conclusive. Request for anything. So. On that piece. And, you know, you know, I'm, I'll be tent. Tending all your means. So I, we're not going to miss any deadlines for the budget or anything like that. Stay in line with where you guys are. Okay. So this, so for clarity, this will be just a progress report. Not like the, I guess the report that we needed to submit. I think the final start there, the concept was to have a, an actual recommendation by the end of January, but that's not going to happen. That's just, there's too much work to do before, between now and then. So. But I think we want to do still focus on the alternative. Delivery of services, you know, like the way it's sort of set up. As you move forward. So, so would it be, be fair to say. Instead of that first sentence in the third paragraph there. Would it be fair to say that. An interim update. On the work of the community service working group. Will be provided by, you know, Paul Backelman. You, you, you say the moment and, you know, we can put it in there. You know, I, I would not want to word it that way. Because there are people in the community who are worried that the town manager is controlling this whole process. And I would rather say in February. The CSWG expects to submit an interim progress report. So that it's. It's our report and expects to give us them latitude. And that would be the first sentence. That makes sense. Yeah. The other change I would recommend in the first sentence. It refers to late November of this year that's now last year. Yeah. And so on and I were ahead of ourselves there. Thank you guys. Thank you. Yeah. So, um, Mr. Backelman is moist and are those changes you can make. As recommended. By the group. And we can go forth and put that. Put that. That release out as soon as possible. You make sure it's done tomorrow. With all the usual social media channels and everything that we use. Thank you. Related to that. If, if I may, if, and I want to also acknowledge. The. Miss Owens work on the flyer. Yeah. This is maybe a good time to look at that as well. I think this was in our packet. A big packet, a lot of stuff in it this time. So. If we could look at that. This morning. Oh, that's nice. You have it right side up. Right. I rotated it. Yes. So. Oh, is it sideways in the. Email. Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't, I didn't catch that piece. No problem. So, um, I'll get a chance to look at that if you haven't seen it. Um, so my only, I would only just suggest to kind of put the end time. In there, because, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, if folks think it's open ended, they might come in like, you know, you know, call in the like six. I mean, eight o'clock and then be like, you all went on. You didn't put the end time. I would suggest putting the end time 537 30. Three to five. So that we're very clear that this is the time. That you have. Okay. So comment. I can definitely change that. Okay. Okay. Okay. So we'll go from five 30 to seven 30 and then from three to five. Yeah, that's what I remember is discussing. Yes, we did. We did. I want to stop. Yes. I was so busy reading there. Yeah. Go ahead. No, no, no, not me. The time manager. So one thing is, uh, Mr. Wiley, your camera slipped down a little bit. So we just see the top of your head. Um, you don't like the looks in the top of my head. I like your looks. But the other on the press release, if there is two things on that one is, is there usually sort of contact name and information. So if the press, you know, the, because that wants to do an article about it, who would you like them to speak with? And we should, you should probably choose a member of the committee who would respond to those kinds of inquiries. And the other thing is that we do a, um, We do a, a, a, a thing called, we, we'd call community chats on Thursdays at noon, which lasts to 30 minutes. And, uh, we get a few people show up at then they get recorded and they go on our website and people can watch them. We get like maybe 50 to 100. Uh, uh, hits. And I think this would be a nice topic for the community chat on the 14th. If someone from the one or two of you from the committee would like to join and it would just be questions about how are you doing on your work. I'm not sure if you're prepared to do that, but it would be an opportunity to advertise the, the Saturday public forum as well. So that's an opportunity for you. If you want to choose to do that. Well, on the first question you're asking, uh, Mr. Boppelman, um, I feel, you know, in terms of, you know, my experience with the group, um, certainly any one of us. Are both versed enough to respond to the pressure. They have any questions. If, um, People feel more comfortable that the. Chair or vice chair maybe be the ones that respond. Or we could designate someone else. I don't want to put myself in the way of someone who wants to step up and be responsible for that. Um, so. So, if someone would like to be, to do that, fine, if not, I will do it. Ms. Owen may do it. Ms. Moisten. I just wanted to ask Breonna, could you possibly put the phone number that's associated with the zoom meetings. I don't know if there's room for that, but for those who don't have a computer who might or if you're traveling and then you can use your phone to listen in. Definitely, I can edit that and send it to you tonight. Okay, and then I will take this and post it as a news and announcement for tomorrow. While people are contemplating, did you have your hand up Ms. Brewer. No, I mean, just quickly to say again to Miss Owen, what a great job. Yes, right. Yeah, good job. Thank you guys. Very good. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, we asked the right person. Certainly. Well, you're contemplating who responds to the press. I want to ask Ms. Moisten and Mr. Bachman in terms of other town committees and working groups such as ours. Who's typically the contact. So, typically it would be, you know, a town official, you know, a town employee, but I think in this situation, it's more important. I would put both the chair and the vice chair on just as a matter of that you've already chosen them as your leadership. So, and if it's okay. Yeah, I think that's a great idea. I like the co-response piece of it in particular. So, okay. So we will do that with the blessing of the group. Thank you again, Miss Owen for that. Beautiful flyer. That's just really going to help us. So let's see, let me sort of circle back here. I got like multiple notes going here. So we're going to send invitation. How to everyone on list. To the forums 13th and the 16th. Yep. With that flyer. Probably okay. Maybe put on the, we're going to certainly do the press release. Mr. Bachman said he'd release that tomorrow. And perhaps we could mention that Miss moison on the website. I will link that. I'll put it on the news and announcement so when you're on the first page of the town website. It shows up as of any event that's happening. And then it can be also, it'll link it to the CSWG webpage. Okay. And looking at the days and you know we're not totally clear on the 20th yet. But we're planning on having that conversation as well as a conversation with the image police department. We're going to have a meeting on the 27th. And people are going to get information. To miss moisten. With respect to the. Amherst police department. Respond to our request by Wednesday. I'm just trying to call it as much as this information as possible. So agreed on all of that. Thank you. So I guess for me, it would be like. So once we send information to you and miss Owens to miss the wire miss Miss Owens, then I know you all are going to get us that the questions right the ones for the police, you guys, you all are going to get the information back to us. Then we're going to review that I guess since we have, you know, next meeting is not going to be meeting is going to be the right forum. I guess when are we going to talk about it so that then we can send the information, the request back to them about the gaps and questions and concerns. Because that's my thing is like, okay, when are we going to do that. And there's going to be enough time before we meet with them on the 27th. Because that's why it's kind of like, so if we end up doing another forum on the 20th, we lose another meeting unless we're going to meet twice that week. We're going to have another meeting because now we're losing. Two meetings on the 13th and on the 20th and then we're going to meet with the police on the 27. Thank you. Very important, very important questions. As far as logistics he understood very much on. Well, I would propose that we not meet and look at the additional questions together that we just send our questions and let our chair and vice chair assemble them and send them to the police department. With one thing. Of response. I would think. I don't know, I'd recommend six business days. I mean, this will be a shorter list. They've already done a lot of it. Most of these questions they've had. So if it's six business days, we'd be saying like the 25th for them to get it back to us. I would say like the 22nd, so that then if they got it back to us by the 22nd, then we'd have a little bit of time to look at their additional response. Okay, I like that. I would go with that. And I actually think maybe we need a meeting on the 20th. Maybe we shouldn't think of that as a, I mean, we could take a piece of it if we have some group we want to hear from, but I think we need some meeting time on the 20th. Hi, Edwin. Ms. Moisten. Oh, I'm not on mute. So I just, I'm thinking that perhaps I either need to talk with some people about logistics about how the forum is going to be run before we have the forum on the 13th. So I don't know if you guys want to meet on Monday or if just two people want to be, you know, make some decisions with me about how to go forward with the forum, but I'm not feeling ready to go into the forum as of 7.15 right now. I agree. We're not ready. I mean, the facilitation and the mechanics of that meeting would be very important for us to understand as a group. Also, we do need to set up a framework for how that is going to work for people so they're not just coming in blind. We have to be able to introduce this forum in some way, including some of the comments we've heard this evening about making sure that voices are heard and we are clearly listening and we are listening, you know, at that point as a group and we have to make that really clear. I think the two things that are big for me and I'd welcome certainly comments from people, certainly in a group here too is what are going to be the questions, what are going to be the prompts that we're going to present to people to solicit their individual comments and opinions and ideas. That's one thing. And two, the other part is who's going to facilitate that? I did say to my, in the last meeting, I felt I'd like to be a listener, not a facilitator of that as part of this whole group. So again, this gets back again and this sort of circles back to a thing we didn't get to yet, but Ms. Carrera's work on resourcing, do we, I think we do certainly need a facilitator to help us operationalize that so that we can be free as a committee to listen and take notes. So I think the work that Ms. Carrera did should be a segue, let's discuss that. And then maybe we can then discuss the question we're going to ask people. Did people hear me? Yeah. Oh, okay. Mr. Wally, do you want me to just say what I did? Yeah, let me just switch my window here. Yes, go ahead and I have to come back to this because I think we have to come to a decision on this pretty quickly. Yes, Ms. Carrera, and thank you, by the way, for doing that and I hope people had a chance to read it. Yes, go right ahead, Ms. Carrera. I'll just say what I did and then obviously people need more time to read it. So obviously this is a draft and really what I did was just kind of like got everyone's feedback that they sent to me. Can you all hear me? Because it's in my end table. Okay, I kind of like formatted it, set it out into different sections, added kind of my own thoughts in regards to it and kind of split it up like that in terms of, okay, what our needs were qualifications and then some of the tasks that, because obviously there might be things that we're missing here, right? That we might not think about now, but it might become relevant as this person could do their work. So they need them to do other things as the time progresses. But these were some of the kind of important things and the important areas were the data collection, writing reports, research, outreach initiatives and other technical supports. And then like I said, I added the other duties as assigned depending on whatever our needs might be in the future. Okay, so let me take comments from folks. I want to acknowledge again, thanks for doing this, Ms. Rarer. I wanna see, I'm looking again here if any of the resourcing has to do with this more immediate need about facilitating, getting someone to facilitate the forums. Yes. Yeah. Under all that technical support, number three. Yeah, I'm losing something here. Yeah, facilitation and no taking support for CDNs. Yeah, CSWG meetings, including emailing minutes and also hearings, public forums. Yeah, thank you. Yes. Lost something there, I'm sorry, yeah. So we said something, you know, I mean, there's a couple of things here that I'm, this is the timing of this, it's, this forum is, the first one is a week away. It's, if we're to have someone facilitate this, they have to be familiar with what, you know, what we wanna present as sort of the prompts for this. They have to be familiar with where we wanna go. They have to be familiar with one of the suggestions we heard this evening about ensuring that BIPOC people, for example, and marginalized folks, for example, who are present are being featured, if you will, in this conversation to make sure their voices are heard. So the timing is not just, it's getting the prompts ready. It's getting the person, but also affirmating the person to our work if they're not part of this immediate work. Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, I don't see any way that it's realistic to hire somebody between now and next week. I think what we talked about last time was that the Jennifer would do the work of calling on people. And I think the questions we've already developed, they're the ones that we worked on earlier that we most recently submitted to be part of online form. I mean, it'd be great if we had some highly trained experience consultant who was familiar with all of this, but between now and the 13th, I don't think there's any chance of that. Well, yeah, I'm just putting that out there to make sure we're clear about what we can and can do. Ms. Pat. My question to the top manager, is there an employee who can help us out to facilitate the public forum? Sure. I mean, Ms. Moyson clearly is qualified to do that. And I think, but if she was facilitating it, we would want to have someone in addition from IT or something to help with the technical pieces of, because it's a two-person job to, will be just to make sure that there's someone actively managing the audience and questions that mean asked and things like that. I would propose we do it that way. I agree. But I think we should probably still kind of come up with whatever statement we want to be read there by Ms. Moyson or any other directions, because I don't think it would be fair to her to kind of be the one to have that all laid upon. So we need to know how much time she's gonna be giving to people, the statement, any other specifications that we would need. I agree with that. And I think it's just a map picturing, opening up that forum. And what's gonna be our opening salvo there? What are we saying to the community? What we're gonna have to remind people of what we're doing, first of all, we're gonna have to also let them know that this is part of our ongoing engagement with the community to facilitate a meaningful and deep conversation about policing. So we have to come up with some kind of statement either if Ms. Moyson has it, she can read it on behalf of the group, for example. And then we can go from there with the questions. Ms. Moyson? Oh, yeah. So I typically will open up with my own way of opening up a workshop or a forum, but that general statement of hi, we are the community safety working group. And so I would say who you are and highlight you, but I would actually expect either Mr. Wiley or Ms. Owen or another member to do that actual, we are the community safety working group. This is that and that's that. And that could be all that that is said. And then I can go into the questions or we can lead into something else. But that initial hi, we're here should come from one of the members of the group. Yeah, actually, as I was hearing you talk, that's what I was thinking too, that someone, one of us should kind of say that hi, we're the group, this is what we're about. And... I don't know if you can hear us, Ms. Ferreira, but I don't see you on the screen or hear you. Sorry, I'm having internet issues. I don't know what's going on. Can you hear me? Yes, now I can hear you. Yeah, sorry, I'm just having internet issues. I gotta figure it out afterwards. But no, I was saying, as I was hearing Mr. Wiley speak before that... Every time she asks, we can hear her. Yeah, we can't. Yeah. Boy, you can't hear me? No, it sounded like you agreed with us. No, true, I did agree, but... I wonder if you took your video off for a few moments. Sometimes that helps. Okay, can you hear me? No? Oh, good. All right, no, I was saying, I was agreeing with that. I think someone from our group should say who we are, why we're doing this work, why we decided to have the forum and the statement about the BIPOC. I think one of us should say that. One of us should say it. Yeah, as opposed to having Ms. Moison say, and then Ms. Moison can go into facilitating, saying what the questions are and calling on different people. And how much time, you can say how much time each person has. Well, I'd like to suggest just to move this forward too, that it's similar to how Ms. Owen and I worked on the press release together. I'd be happy to work with someone on the group to maybe someone who hasn't been active in that way to draft a script that we could send to Ms. Moisten on behalf of the group. And then someone of us could just use that to open the meeting on next Wednesday. And you don't see me looking at you, but I'm looking at you, Ms. Walker. And I'm looking at you, Mr. Cage, even though you're, you can't, you probably can see me, I don't know where you are, but I wanna invite your participation too in this. And I'd be happy to work with you and get something to Ms. Moisten that we can all use to be willing to do it, either one of you. I would be happy to work on that with you. Okay, great. So we can connect and I'll throw some language your way. And then I'll start the ball rolling on that and we can work with Ms. Moisten to get that to her. Mr. Wiley, if you all want, I can also help out with that too. Definitely, you're more than welcome. Yeah. Okay, so we'll do that. And we'll try Ms. Moisten, yes. I'm just curious to a couple of things or is it possible that we can meet for a short amount of time on like Monday or something, but I just feel like there's certain things, logistical things that need to be done. So the questions that are being asked are the questions that are on the survey. I think so. Yeah, that's right. Is that what I'm asking? Let's do that. Okay, and then per question, so if there's 25 people plus, how much time does everybody get to speak? And if there's under 25 plus, then how many people get to speak? Like, I mean, how much time? Can you bring up the questions, Ms. Moisten? Were they were in a packet, correct? Yeah, well, it was the questionnaire that you sent. Oh, I have it right here. Can you see that? Yeah. Not yet. No, we can't see it. Okay, just one second. I mean, you could just, we could lead in with what you've got written here. Yeah, we can use some of that for the script, but we'll work on the script. And so I changed the survey, so it reflects exactly everything word per word that was asked of. So I did have to break up the things that were two questions and make them, that was one question with like a sub question underneath it and make it two different questions. Can you see that? I'm not. Yes. Yes, I can, yeah. I think like, I think the question number five and question number six would probably be five, six, and seven will probably be like some of the main ones that we would want, right? I'm just, you know, that's kind of heavy to lead right into, so I'm just trying to figure, think of a way to engage. But number five is kind of general. Can you scroll up again? Number five starts to pretty general. What experiences have you or your relative or friend had with the Amherst Police Department? So it's not saying positive or negative. So that's a pretty good kind of general lead-in question. So in our script, when we talk, we'll have to say that the focus of this is primarily on the Amherst Police Department. You see what I'm saying? So that when you lead in with that question, it's already expected. So you're saying five, six, and seven? Well, five, six, seven, and eight. And eight. You scroll down a little bit. Yeah, I think those will be like the primary ones because if we're only gonna have, we have two hours. If we have like Ms. Moisten was saying, 25 people, we're gonna have to kind of really be focused on what questions we wanna ask and for how much time, like five to 10 minutes or if we wanna do five minutes and then people are gonna go a little bit longer, give them the most 10 minutes, so we cut them off at 10. Well, if we have four questions, maybe we can divide it up into the segments of the quiz. I'm sorry, let me go to Ms. Walker first, you have your hand up. Are we only gonna be allowing participants to answer the questions or will we just allow them to? Because I think my idea is that some people will enter the forum with a specific idea of what they want to share with us, not necessarily having that fall underneath any specific question. John, any one of those questions they might do that? Yeah, Mr. Vernon Jones. I mean, I agree with Alicia. I would not divide the forum up, so we have this question and then this question and then this question. I would give all the questions at the beginning as a statement of what we're interested in and then say, what would you like to tell us and then give people however many minutes it is and not try to structure what they do beyond having given them the questions as what we're interested in. Ms. Moisten. So either a member after reading the, you know, we're either community safety working group could say, you know, we are in need, we wanna know what your experience have been, we wanna know if you feel like because you're a person from the BIPOC community that you were treated different, like those are the questions and you can kind of lead it in in that way and then we can say, please tell us about your experiences. Is that how we're, is that what you're suggesting? Yes. So then it can either go into the community safety working group dialogue that is done by the members or a combination of that and myself. Yes. Yep. Yeah. Okay, that sounds good. So getting back to what you were asking, Ms. Moisten, Monday, would it be necessary in your mind for the whole group to meet or do you need to meet with some of us I mean, I will meet with anybody who wants to have some type of input and how the structure of this is gonna flow. So I have to leave that to you guys. But I do wanna acknowledge that Debra and Ms. Farera, sorry, and Ms. Pat had their hands up before you, before we switch. I'm sorry, go right ahead. So I'm assuming, Go ahead Ms. Pat. So I'm assuming we'll have a different question for Caucasian groups when they come to present, correct? Organizations. Do people hear my question? Yeah, I'm thinking about your question. I did hear it. Say more, what are you thinking about the question? So I'm looking at number eight. Yeah. That wouldn't apply to some organization that is headed by Caucasian leadership. Even though they serve, they may be serving some BIPOC community because they can't speak for us. They don't have our experience. So we just have to be strategic in questions that we ask our allies. Just in response to that, would not the open-ended nature of the questions as we talked about introducing it, allow them to respond as a person who's not a BIPOC person, they would respond from their own experience. So we wouldn't have to have a question specifically for Caucasian people, specifically for BIPOC people necessarily. But if we do it in such a way that opens it up, would that allow them to speak from their own experience and maybe from their own racial, ethnic, or socioeconomic place, Ms. Moistner? Yeah, for organizations though, I think you need a little bit of a different structure because I mean, I guess what you're trying to figure out what you want from the organizations would be the first question, right? So if you'd invited, I'm not only saying this theoretically, the Amherst Survival Center, then do you want to know how many people who from the BIPOC community go and get food and then what are the barriers from preventing them that cause them to have to go to the center or whatever the cases? So I think you just have to figure out what it is that you want from the organizations that are not from the BIPOC community organizations in order to form the questions for them. They're really two different things, I would think. I think maybe we need one more meeting, like Ms. Moistner is suggesting on Monday because now I'm thinking, I do want to have some input as to how we structure the forum. Mr. Burton-Joan, do you have your hand up? Oh, I was- I'm Ms. Pat, by the way, I'm sorry. I read this book. I read this book, yeah. I'm saying that it seems like we might need another meeting to flesh out how we're going to structure the forum on the 13th. I mean, the questions we have are great, but I just want, you know, because it does happen very frequently for people who have not lived experience speaking for us about our experiences is what I'm getting at. And I'm trying to, like, use my words very carefully. This is an open meeting, so. Well, you're very clear to me, I'm going to speak to everybody else about what the matter of concern here is, and I think we want people to be, certainly speak for themselves. Your own experiences, hopefully, you know, like I would not, you know, speak for, you know, Mr. Bachlemann or you, for example, I'd be speaking for my own experience, so we hope that we can get that in place. And I'm hoping we don't start speaking for other people in this case. There may be a way to talk about that, certainly, but anyway, I'm Mr. Burton-Joan, you had your hand up, and I'm being a little conscious of time here, so I want to get to also, too, a couple of things before we leave. Yeah, I just wanted to reinforce, I think, what Jennifer said before, that when we get agencies and organizations, we may have different questions, but that's not the focus of either the 13th or the 16th. And I, it's- Of what? 13th? Mrs. Bach, what was that? You said something. Did you say 13th? Oh, the date, okay, yeah. I was saying, these two forums on the 13th and the 16th, they're really, we're going to hear from individuals. This is not the time when we're going to try to quiz organizations or agencies. But if we need a meeting, I mean, and if some of you are going to get together with Jennifer and you want to post that as a meeting, then we could, anybody who wants to could join in. Well, I would say on the side of preparation that we should have a meeting on Monday. As we're coming down to the close of this meeting, it's late and a lot of questions are being posed at this time. And I think having some kind of connection with Jennifer on Monday at some time, we could choose would be good for us to do as a way of getting some, you know, certainly some more clarity before we enter the work on Wednesday. Yeah, yeah. But just to kind of frame it though, I think in terms of invitations, I thought we had talked about that we were going to invite for this public forum, even though it's public, right? So anyone else can come, but I'm just kind of like for this public forum, it's really focused on kind of our kind of inviting BIPOC individuals and BIPOC organizations, right? As first and we're going to make a statement that that's what we want to hear from first. So I think those questions need to be framed for them. You know what I'm saying? For the folks that we want to hear from, because, you know, the way I'm seeing it is that that's really the focus of these forums for the 13th and 16th. And then, you know, any other organizations would be afterwards. Mm-hmm. I do think if somebody shows up on the 13th or the 16th and we get through all the BIPOC folks who want to speak and we invite a white person to speak, you know, if they turn out to be somebody from the chamber and wants to say something, you know, we need to listen, even if that's not our primary purpose in organizing the forum. No, definitely. We're not going to turn anyone away, but I'm just saying in terms of our question, I think I think we need to focus on that. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, but I don't think we need to be as concerned with, okay, what are like white organizations going to respond to things like that? I agree, yep. But yeah, everyone needs to, as long as we have the time, everyone and anyone needs to be listening to them. I mean, I agree. Yeah, go ahead. Oh, who was speaking there? Ms. Peck? I mean, I agree with what Ms. Peck said and what Mr. Ross Benninger also said. So that's the whole point. Like, are we going to ask the same question if all the BIPOC folks, and we still have time for white folks to, you know, make public, you know, present something to us? Are we going to ask the same question that we asked BIPOC folks? Yeah. And Ms. Pereira, and then Ms. Jones. I think like, because it's getting late, I think that could be something again that we can discuss more on that Monday meeting and just kind of script maybe some general things for anyone that's not BIPOC or non-BIPOC organization. I'd like to propose that we meet on Monday. And I'd like to just maybe get a show of hands on, you know, not putting a time to it necessarily, but how many of us would like to meet on Monday? I know I would too. So- I want to just after five, I can't. After five. Yeah, that's true. I remember that. Yeah. So could we schedule a 530 meeting? Ms. Moisten, Mr. Baucherman, could we post a 530 meeting for this working group on Monday, Mr. Vernon Jones? I'm not available until seven on Monday. You can meet without me if you want, but if after seven worked, I would join you. Is that too late? Is that too late for time employees? Long day. I'm flexible. That was a trick question. I could make seven work. I'm flexible. It's not actually something I would typically do, but I could make seven work. If that works for Mr. Vernon Jones and other people, they can make it work. Yeah, I can make it work too. It's not my typical time either, but I can make it work. Just for an hour, right? We're only meeting for an hour, right? 45 minutes. 45 minutes. Even better, 45. Yes. Folks should come with their, you know- Yeah. A game facility stuff. Yeah, we've got to be really efficient about that. Because, you know, you think about that. We have that meeting. It's Monday night. And Tuesday, we're just, we got to be all ready. So, so could we post that meeting? I will post that meeting tomorrow. So we're saying seven to 745? Yes. Okay. Did you hear Mr. Vernon Jones? Well, just that we were in the middle of this discussion of the piece that Deborah wrote about the resources. Are we going to finish that discussion tonight or is that Monday or does that wait two more weeks? Well, I don't know. I'd like to maybe hear from Ms. Ferrara since you're the document creator. Somehow part of me feels like it's waiting two weeks is a long time. And in the same moment I'm saying, you know, to myself, it's like it's quarter to eight. And maybe we could probably, if we're efficient with our time on Monday, perhaps we can introduce some discussion about that on Monday. I don't know what the group would think about that. Yeah, I think my thing with this is just if people have other things they want to add to it because obviously there could be more that we wanted to add than maybe just to kind of bring that if we do end up discussing it a little bit more on Monday. But I think we should, yeah, we should finalize it by Monday because we need to get this out. We're going to get some help. Mr. Vernon Jones. I think there are some edits we want to make, but also we're headed toward an RFP. And I wonder, can we ask the town manager to take this text and put it in the format of an RFP so that we are actually editing the RFP rather than working from an earlier document? That would be great. A great suggestion. Thank you. And that was an affirmative, Mr. Baucherman. Thumbs up, yeah. Okay. So there's resource support. So we're going to, yeah. So we'll deal with that resource support. We'll hear from Mr. Baucherman based on that, that suggestion from Mr. Vernon Jones. And we'll meet on Monday at seven o'clock, seven to 745 in preparation for the forum on Wednesday. There was a last item on their resources list and web update. And I didn't want to not mention that at all, certainly, but I think Ms. Moyston, you had a comment you wanted to make about that. I know we're collecting resources and sharing resources and perhaps you want to expand upon a bit. So I just wanted to give an update with the website and the resources tabs and what that will actually look like. So we don't necessarily have to do that today. And then perhaps where on the list you wanted to put the actual survey. So this is what your webpage looks like now. You know, and it's just got the charge. And so it's got a lot of stuff. So what IT had suggested that we do is because it already has so much information that we just kind of, let's see, did that version switch over? Clean it up a little bit so that you have a resources tab here and other details like the charge and so forth could go here. And then, you know, we could put like the survey link here but I just wanted to run that, but maybe, you know, it's your page. So. Mr. Vernon Jones. I like that, but I'd also want to have this survey at the top of the page at the link to the survey and a nice green bubble or something at the top that's really attention getting. Okay. Also, is the link, where do we get the link so that we can share it with our folks and stuff? Like folks that we want to get out about the forums. So I will send you the link tomorrow prompt. Like I just, I changed the survey. And so, you know, I wanted everybody to have a chance to look at it and make sure that they were okay. But it is, and like the way that it looks, it is set up in the exact way that it was given to me. So I'm assuming that it's good to go. But, you know, I want to check with you guys folks first. In regard to that, thank you for working on that too. And, you know, it looks good. It looks really accessible. If in terms of making changes to the website like that, you know, from this group, and like for example, the suggestion that Mr. Vernon Jones just made, get those to you anytime. Yes. Weston, okay. Yes, I, you know, do different types of updates as you can see, like I update the next meeting date. Yeah. And so I'm on this page at least once or twice a week. So. Very good. Okay. Well, thank you for doing all that work and thank all of you too. Any other comments, I mean, any upcoming, let me move right forward here because we are in a late hour. Any upcoming events, and I actually skipped over a chance to have the group talk earlier. We just delved right into the agenda. Any other upcoming events you want us to be aware of other than the ones we're involved in, which we are aware of? The Human Rights Commission will be celebrating Martin Luther King Day on Friday the 15th at 5.30. That will consist of a bell ringing ceremony, some singing, community reading of his work, so forth and so forth. I'll send the flyer out. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. So our next meeting date is actually Monday, Monday the 11th at seven o'clock. And followed by, you know, our forum, which will be from 5.30 to 7.30 on Wednesday this week. And then a second forum on Saturday from 3 p.m. to 5 p.m. So those are the meeting activities of the coming week. Any other topics people need to identify, talk about? Just. Yes, Ms. Pat. Just very briefly, I am very impressed that the business community celebrated Kwanzaa and not amused this year. That's really, you know, feel very pleased about it. And also the fact that the town through Ms. Mustin also organized Kwanzaa as well, makes me really happy. However, I think moving forward, it would be very nice to do more coordination with Kwanzaa because there were like different groups that did Kwanzaa, but the fact that the town, you know, sponsored one of them, it's really, thank you. The town manager, thank you, Ms. Mustin. I'm very happy about that. And I hope, and I'm not speaking for anybody, but I hope that the town will also consider helping to sponsor Juneteen. So I don't know. We're on it. We're on it. We're on it, Ms. Pat. I don't wanna be in trouble, but, you know, I just want to let you know. No, don't trouble. I'm on it. I feel proud of our men's. Thank you guys. That's good. I like that. Thank you for those comments. Thank you all for all of your work and ongoing work. And thanks ahead of time for the work ahead. I would like to, so this is a motion for adjournment. So move. Mr. Vernon Jones, a second. Second. All those in favor, maybe just raise your hand. I can see you. Should I, do I really have to take a roll? No, thank you. Okay, so we're adjourning this meeting at 7.56 PM on Wednesday, the 6th of January. Thank you all for all your work and let's stay in touch with each other as we promised and govern ourselves accordingly. Thank you. Have a good night. Thank you. Good night, everybody. Bye, everybody. Thanks, Darius.