 in order for Monday, November 2nd, 2020, and start by approving the agenda. All the board members that've seen the agenda and find with it, take a motion to approve it, please. Chris, I would like to make an amendment to the agenda. I was at a meeting this afternoon and I was requested to put on the agenda a meeting agenda item about health officer as more and more restaurants and stuff are getting issues about who can be in their restaurant and how to do that. Should we be advertising for a full, you know, not a full, but a health officer? Rarer legal, temporarily full-time officer. Right. Take care of that after the manager's items. That'd be fine. I'd also like to add an item on education for the board for sensitivity and anti-racism that I think Bill might have some insight on. Okay. Do that immediately after Mark's or Mike's addition. Okay, with that, somebody wants to prove the agenda with those changes, we can move forward. I make a motion to approve the agenda as amended. Somebody second it, please. Second. Which has been made and seconded to approve the agenda. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Defended agenda items. Simply the minutes of October 19th meeting, liquor license for the farmhouse, flowers LLC operating at two zero zero seven got the road. Appoint a DRB member, Andrew. Trentus, I don't know if that's probably not right, but as an alternate term ending April 30th, 2021. And move a DRB meeting alternate Harry Shepard to a member's position term ending April 30th, 2022. Somebody wants to approve that consent agenda. I make a motion to approve the consent agenda. They're second. I'll second. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Motion approved. Okay. Obviously night is going to be perhaps a little bit lengthy before we move into the public conversation. I'd like to address the viewers that are here tonight. I'd like to read a little letter that I put together. And if you allow me the time you get through it, I will, when I finish, I will turn the meeting over to Mark and let him take it from there. No, I'll begin. And I had to put it on paper because it's going to be tough for me to get it through, get through it. So first I want to let you know my wife and I have been overwhelmed by all the support from our neighbors and even people that don't know us. We have received hundreds of kind and understanding emails, messages, texts, phone calls and posts. We apologize that we have not responded to all of them but no, they have kept us all going the last couple of weeks. As you can imagine, my wife, Leanne, did not want me to ever run for office any time except for the first year as a select board. Why? As she figured something would happen like this and I guess she was right. Of course, neither of us ever thought some of our neighbors would ever become the kind of bullies you'd see in other places but I guess we should have. It was kind of obvious from that infamous meeting about the banner and again, a bad choice of words on my part but you kind of get distracted when there is someone at the meeting that is bouncing around in his chair with anger and shouting. There was clearly no room for any discussion. So now that I have the floor, I will tell you in simple words what I was not able to say then. Knowing how things are going everywhere else and knowing this town fairly well, I thought maybe it might be better to try to include everyone to avoid possible graffiti, destruction, and division that has erupted everywhere else. Why can't this be the town that does not point at differences and we instead include everyone equally? If I'm not mistaken, there was graffiti. Something happened to the banner and now there is big division in our community. Imagine that the three things that I was hoping to avoid which is why I tried to make a couple of suggestions. I really find it interesting that when the news report about the vandalism came out, there was no mention about the how the select board chair had expressed concerns that this could happen and made suggestions about somehow including everyone equally to avoid it. It makes me worry that perhaps unrest was the goal. Well, all I will say is that unrest was not caused by me and maybe it could have been avoided. I know that you have made up your mind about me and I am, and I get the feeling about who I am and I get the feeling that was already cast in stone before the banner meeting, but I want to share something with you. Yes, I can build a house from the excavation of the ground up to the roof. I can come exceptionally close on triggering what it will cost for the construction project, but I can't read very good. Clearly don't express myself well. My spelling is not perfect and sometimes my handwriting is a little rough, but why would somebody who probably if they went to school now would have been classified as having a learning disability think that they would ever be able to run for any kind of public office? The answer is I really do care about people of this town and this state. And I think if I stick my neck out, I can do something good for those who don't seem to have a voice. Any other time, even if even only a few years ago, I probably could have made these same mistakes and people, especially people from this community would have understood or would have simply asked me, is that what you really meant to say? We would have a discussion and we would have all moved on with our lives whether we agreed or not. I'm sorry that you think that the fact that my wife and I were raised in this area and taught by our families that we should treat everyone equally no matter who they are makes us a racist and ignorant. That really is the case. Thank you for your input, but we prefer to stay that way because we would never want to act as judgmental, hurtful or cruel to any other person just because they didn't completely agree or understand us no matter who they are. I hope it is worth it because Leanne and I can carry on either way. If this, either way after this, knowing full well it is not us that did this to the community. We also will feel quite comfortable walking the straight line down the middle and believing that every person no matter who they are, there is no, believing that every person matters no matter who they are. There is no need to carry signs, hold rallies, paint things, hang banners, preach or fight with your neighbors if you just simply practice being a good person to everyone again no matter who they are. I will not step down from my position as a select board member. I have had overwhelming support and been told don't give up, don't give in and don't step down. Which has shown me that my work while serving on this board has been valued by those who understandably don't dare to speak out. I feel it is only right to let you know, let you all know there are a lot of them out there and they are also watching and hearing what is going on. Those people are the ones I am working for and I have no intention of letting them down. Someone must be their voice and not be afraid to speak for them even if I have to be the one taking the beating for it. The people behind this movement to get this dangerous Viennese guy out are and have been well represented. And it is obvious they know who to use, they know how to use their own voices and they don't need me. I spent a lot of time thinking about my options, talking and listening to family, friends and my other supporters out there. I obviously have also listened to you out there that don't support me but there have never been any talking with you. It is obvious you have no interest in that. I have thought about all the hours I have put in at these meetings, thought about the times I had driven back from Viennese to attend a meeting because it was about an important issue that the town needed to resolve. I thought about all the things that I have accomplished during my time on the board. I sure hope that someday someone could take the time to put those things in headlines so that my grandkids, when my grandkids Google grandpa's name, they won't think all I am is an ignorant racist. Maybe they will understand that grandpa is an old fashioned redneck that accomplish things. After thinking about how this is affecting the community, this board, my family, my friends and myself I have decided to step down as chair. Don't take this step lightly. I hope my supporters out there understand and I hope my non-supporters will try in the future to be a little kinder to their neighbors. Take time to ask if you don't understand what someone is saying. Don't just think us people who talk like rednecks are always against you. We just have our own way of talking too. And for those who will be quick to judge my words again, the word redneck here means working class person from a rural area and doesn't mean anything else. And I want to make sure that this letter is attached to the minutes so that my words aren't twisted again. I'll send you a copy. Thank you. Oh, with that, I appreciate everybody's patience and I'll now turn the meeting over to Mara. Thank you, Chris. As vice chair, I'm gonna make a slight modification. I'm gonna extend the public portion of the meeting to 25 minutes. I think there's quite a few people that would like to talk. I asked that we try to keep this organized. Karen, I think you're gonna try to help with that. There is a feature in Zoom that allows you to raise your hand. Otherwise, I think just put your name in the chat and if anyone wishes to speak, if you could limit it to one to two minutes so everyone has an opportunity. And we do have items on the agenda tonight that we do need to get to. So I would appreciate if you don't find time tonight to speak that you reach out to the select board or bill with any additional comments that you didn't feel were expressed this evening so we can review them, but we do have an agenda that we need to get through. So with that, Karen, I'll pass it over to you for the first public comment. Well, I think the first question is being asked is whether you have to be a Waterbury resident to comment. I believe that's up to the board, Bill. If that's correct, I think you're muted. You're muted, Bill. I didn't hear what Karen said. It was a little garbled, I'm sorry. Someone's asking if public comment needs to be limited to Waterbury residents. This is a select board meeting. So it's really the select board's decision. I would say the chair could use his discretion and if another member doesn't think so, I would like to suppose you could put it to a vote, but it's not a town meeting. So the rest of the people on Zoom don't have a say about it. Yeah, I would like to at least start with public comment from town residents. And if we find time, we can extend it. To non-residents. Okay, so I think Maroni Minter then would be the first to speak. And Mark, are you limiting folks to two minutes? Yeah, I think so, because I think there are quite a few people that would like to speak. Okay, so with that in mind, if we get towards that two-minute mark, I'll warn you and then I'll mute you, okay? For those that are speaking. So Maroni, if you'd like to take the floor. Everybody, can you all hear me? I can. Thank you all so much for making your time. And thank you for giving the time to speak. My name is Maroni and I'm gonna try to keep this under two minutes. My name is Maroni and I'm a resident of Waterbury since 2003, when I moved here from Gabon, which is a very small country on the west coast of Africa. I am a proud black man who calls Waterbury home. Waterbury is a community committed to diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice. We need leaders in place who uphold and advance these values. We are a better community when everyone has the chance to meet their full potential, to work for all of us. Leaders of our community must be resolute and their commitment to equal treatment of all, not stereotypes or bias. I'm a member of the Waterbury Anti-Raising Coalition. And part of our mission at work is to call our races more we see it. We want to help make changes necessary to make Waterbury area a welcoming place for all of us. So we don't hear horrific stories of racism on our community members, such as the ones we heard at Russia racial justice rallies this summer. I'm also speaking tonight as one of the community members who authored the petition calling for Mr. Vien to resign from the select board. I stand by that position tonight. And I want to share with you all that 464 people, Waterbury residents have signed that petition so far demanding that Mr. Vien resigns from the select board. This is not just about the banner or the banner meetings, as Mr. Vien just said. Back in June, Mr. Vien suggested that if black and brown people like myself didn't move to Vermont, we would not be having a conversation about racism. When asked about policing during a candidate forum recently, Mr. Vien said, and I put, I'd rather see segregated police. When calls come that are minority related, those police officers that are minority will address those issues. That way it would resolve, I hope, one thing, if there is a tragic shooting, the whole racism issue might be put to bed. Mr. Vien went on even saying, when asked, how would the dispatcher be able to tell the name of the caller? Mr. Vien said, pretty much, if the person's name is Mohamed, you could pretty much guarantee that's not white person. Maroney, Maroney, I'm gonna have to interrupt you and ask if there's anyone else that would like an opportunity to speak. Okay, well, let me just, I just wanna finish. In conclusion, I, with 464, residents of Waterbury are calling for Mr. Vien to resign. In response to Mr. Shepulak, I agree 100% that we need a more active citizen willing to run for office. Mr. Vien is running on a pause, terms after term is problematic. If Mr. Vien does not resign, I can assure you that next term, he will not enjoy the privilege of running on a pause. At the same time, this is no excuse for his very public, very unsuitable comments, which warrants at least some response from town officials, not deflection. Thank you. Okay, not seeing anyone else in the queue to speak. Danny. Hi, so I wrote something before the meeting, which I might alter or would have altered after hearing Mr. Vien's letter, but for time's sake, I will just read what I prepared. I'm Danny, I work and live here in Waterbury and I am thankful for the chance to speak to my elected officials. This topic of racial injustice in particular is extremely important. I wanna address you, Mr. Vien, so I don't know you personally. I feel that you represent me as a Waterbury resident. Specifically, I wanna say that while it might seem that many are angry at you, they know you said you felt bullied, I'm here to tell you that many of us are not angry, that I hope the message becomes clearer tonight from me and others, that we are only here to make change. Nobody wants to hurt many of us. I'll take it back. Don't wanna hurt you. We don't wanna hurt anyone else. It's the opposite of what we aim to do. Our goal is to create a future that has less hate and less anger and more love, acceptance and equity. My goal in speaking tonight is to ask that, as a community member, to ask you that you listen when people tell you that your words hurt them. It may not be your intention, but intention is not always the same thing as outcome. I ask that you put ego or pride aside as we all have to do, not just you, to learn how to become a better citizen and a better leader for this growing community. Change and growth are difficult and scary, but none of us is perfect and none of us have all the answers no matter how much experience we have. I ask that you be willing to open your mind to new ideas, to listen to a group of people who have been oppressed for centuries and to accept the offers of education and training so that you might gain some new perspective. You said that you felt no one was interested in talking, but I can speak for myself and I wrote you an email and asked for you to talk with me and I know at least a dozen others did the same. I'm sure you were inundated with messages and it might have been overwhelming, but please don't say that no one extended a hand to speak because I did. I at first was angry enough to want your resignation, but I believe it's important you stay on the select board to go through whatever education and training is offered to you or mandated to the group. I promise to do the same to learn and grow alongside you and everyone in this community. I know the work is challenging, but if we're to make real change in the world, we have to step up and do the work. So thanks for listening. Thank you, Danny. Dana Allen would like to speak. Thank you, Karen. And Danny, I think you put that very eloquently. Chris, I think that you've served the community very, very well for a very long time. You've put in a lot of hours and I think that you deserve recognition for that. Recent events and recent statements just don't align with where a community is growing and going. I think it's an opportunity for all of us to work together. And so I hope that going forward, you will continue to work with the community. You will take these suggestions constructively because public service is hard and no one is perfect, but we all make mistakes. And I really think that there's a great opportunity here. And I think there are a lot of people in this room now, virtual room, who are willing and able to help. So that is all I have to say. Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. Meg and Tom wanted an opportunity to speak. Meg, you're still muted. Sorry about that. All right, thank you, Karen. I have a few things that I'd like to say. First off, I really appreciate that we have the Anti-Racism Coalition in town now. And I feel passionately and vehemently that we need to bring the work forward and we certainly need to extend into education and to our young people. And I feel that as a community, we really want to do that. And I think we're poised to do that. So that's a good thing. Secondly though, this whole process with this petition, I have to say has been so damaging in ways. I know that certain things were said at certain times. And I have to say that trying to go back to the primary source of these meetings and these videos and articles, I've been unable to substantiate all of the things that was raised in that petition. So having known Chris Viennes for many years and appreciating him and his family as people in our community and all the work that he's done, I felt that it was important to try to substantiate what was being put in the petition. And one of the items was able to be, and that was the one with the town meeting and the select board person. And that happened. And we actually followed that through and found out that that was resolved to that person's satisfaction, if you will. It could have been handled better. But frankly, the other things in the petition were not substantiated. At least I was not able to find them. Went back and looked at the videos, listened to the audios. And I just have to say that the way that this change.org petition came out, and I support the work of the coalition. So I have multiple things that are true. I want this work to go forward, but the change.org petition was thrown out there with a lot of things that were very, very vague. Trying to follow up on it was not able to get any sort of primary source support from the people who put it out there. So I look forward to working with everyone, but I think that this was a really, really unnecessary exercise in trying to force Chris Vianne's off of being the select board chair. It could have been done in a much nicer way. I mean, if anybody who's sitting here, if our fee... Sorry, Meg, the two minutes was up, I apologize. So Erin Hurley would like to speak. Hi, thank you very much. I just want to say to the select board, I do appreciate how you all, you all, all, all give, have given over the years, you, Chris, I know probably in the thousands and thousands, I have been thinking a lot about the Waterbury area anti-racism coalition and our role in the community for a very new organization. And we just had a meeting this past Tuesday. It was, in fact, the first meeting we have had since Chris Vianne's made his comments two Mondays ago, two weeks ago now. And it was interesting that that group of people who've been meeting since June, they were very interested in the education piece and to like reach out to our community and use this as an education opportunity and we've been working on an op-ed as WARK that lists a bunch of different resources that we hope to put out to the community soon. So I want to just say that I think that that space exists. I don't think this isn't us versus them. I grew up in Vermont. I around a lot of rednecks and with rednecks, if you to use your word, Chris. And I think that Vermont or native Vermonters, whoever, you know, what you mean by that, those folks really, truly are people who can understand implicit bias, who can understand racism. Like I understand that I've learned and worked hard to understand why your comments were wrong to say. And I would love to hear an apology from you, Chris, because they were really hurtful and scary. And there are kids of color in our town who heard those comments, I'm sure, and thought, oh, I get my own separate police force now. Oh, we're back to the time where it's, you know, separate but equal. Now we're segregated. Like those comments were real and they were dangerous and you're running for public office and you have a position of leadership in our town. We weren't, no part of WARK was out to get you, but those comments obviously blew up across the state because they really hit a spot with people who were trying to combat racism as being really, deeply scary. And so I just wanna say that I'm sorry that our community has, you know, felt so much pain around this conversation, but I do think it's really important. And I'm sorry that people's families have been so stressed out. And I think that at the time now where we can really heal and learn together and come out of this more informed. And I think I hope that you can take the time, Chris, to understand why this was a dangerous idea and take, you know, appropriate action. And I've sent emails to the select board and I've... Okay, sorry, Erin. I apologize, it's been over two minutes. Sorry about that. Life, Lee Gross would like to speak. Is it possible to just wait to all Waterbury residents have spoken? I see a note from Moroni requesting to speak again. You're asking on behalf of Moroni if he can speak again? No, it's because he's asking because he's not a resident of Waterbury. Oh, I see, okay. All right, Mark, I leave that up to you. I think Moroni's asking if he can respond. I think that's fine with me if everyone else is okay with that. No problem. Go ahead, Moroni, if you could again, sorry for limiting on time, but give you another two minutes and then we'll move on if there's anyone else who'd like to speak after you. Yeah, so just really quick, Meg, to what you said that you've gone and watched or listened to June meeting and you didn't hear the comment that Mr. Gaines around if Black and brown people didn't move here, we wouldn't have any conversations about racism. I'm happy to actually go back to listen to it and send it to you specifically because everybody who was on that meeting heard those comment clearly. Now, in response to what many have said, yes, many here have known Mr. Gaines and his family for years, and he is well-known and well-respected men who has contributed greatly to our community and we all appreciate his service. I'm sure Mr. Gaines, he's a good man. We are not saying everything about him is horrible. We are just calling out pattern of views and ideas that don't conform to the way a community leader should represent our members. It is much bigger than one person and I'm proud of the work that work is doing. We are developing anti-racism coalition to undo the systemic racism at all level within our community. Mr. Gaines is just one example of a much bigger problem. We're just using his views as an example to have a much bigger conversation while continue to hold him accountable. That's all I just wanted to add. I need an answer. Thank you, Maroney. Rachel has asked to speak. Thank you. And thanks for giving Maroney more time. So I am a proud member of the anti-racism coalition as well. I moved to Waterbury about a year ago and grew up in South Burlington. And I just wanna say that this really feels like a profound opportunity to demonstrate your care for the whole of this community that you serve and to model the importance of the learning and reflection that's been described. Racism is especially confusing and mysterious for those of us who experience life with white privilege. And it's not our fault that we don't understand it since that's how the system was designed. Yet it is very much our responsibility to learn how to ensure that our actions and words do not cause harm to other people. This is increasingly important when we hold positions of power. You're on the select board because you care about this town and community as you articulated so well. I assume that you have regret for having used racist language and promoted racist ideas. And I hope that you can and will please apologize so that we can move forward into learning and reflection on how our community can be one in which all people can feel safe, supported and that they belong like you say you intend. Right now it has been made clear whether intentionally or not that our white community matter more than our community members of color. That is not the town that I moved to the community in which I belong and therefore I deeply hope that we can find a path forward together. Thank you. Thank you, Rachel. I don't have any other specifically requests for anyone to speak. Meg would like to speak again. Hi, yes, thank you. I just wanted to- Meg, just remember two minutes. Okay, I'm gonna make it much shorter. I just wanted to say thank you to Maroney in terms of sending where that statement was made. I couldn't hear it or find it and I listened multiple times. Second, I did want to just note that I also saw on change.org that there were multiple people who actually aren't Waterbury residents. I followed through the link and saw multiple posts. So I have to assume that probably there's more. Again, I'm just saying because everybody is trying to, I think people are trying to reset and go forward. I think it's okay to be forthright and transparent on all fronts. So as far as that goes, but yeah. I guess just in wrapping, Chris, I'm really glad that you're gonna stay on the select board and I wanna say that there's many, many, many people in this community who have expressed that. It sounds like directly to you but it sounds like this whole group hopefully can go forward in the direction that people want to. And I'm really sorry for living in this community for 30 years and having to endure the two weeks of what we just had in terms of how this was rolled out. Truly, I'm sorry. I don't think it's a proud moment. While the work is valuable, the process was not proud. So thank you. Thanks. Brenda would like to speak. Hi, I'm a Duxbury resident, Brenda Hartstorn. And Chris, I wanna thank you for spending a long time talking with me the other night. I know it's been a rough time and I appreciate the courage that it's taken for you to come forward and the letter that you read. I think that stepping down as chair is a good move. You and I had a pretty long heart to heart talk and I'm still on my journey of learning about my actions as a racist, a white privileged woman and I welcome any time to learn with you if you would like that. I appreciate your honesty. I think there are people that need an apology and I would ask you to consider that. But I think in sharing, when you talked about your grandparents, I mean your grandchildren and the headlines they might read that really stuck to me. And I think that actually you have a chance to make the headline you want and the memory that your grandchildren will remember you by. So thank you and thanks for all your work. Thanks Brenda. So life has been very patient. I think it's his turn. Thank you. I'm a duck spray resident as well and a member of work. And I just wanna clarify that the petition was not on behalf of work. So just that was kind of mentioned earlier. I did sign the petition even though I'm not a water spray resident and I still think Chris the best move would be to step off all together. Meg noted the process was not proud and I'll just say that, and somebody else said people are not mad and I was mad when I read your comments and to ask people to sort of tamp down their anger and their emotionality is something called tone policing. And this is really important stuff and there was harm done but that doesn't mean that you're a bad person. I think as you mentioned, whatever your education, your background those things influence and I feel that too. I mean, I'm a white male. I've had a lot of limitations to try to overcome to try to learn this stuff and I still mess up. I still do racist stuff. We live in a white dominated society. So that we're constantly being brainwashed. That's just something we all have to deal with. What I appreciate tonight is it seemed like you recognize that and even stepping down from the chair that you're looking to learn and to grow. And I think that's awesome. And the kind of vulnerability and the humility you showed in that letter like if you could keep that going this could be something really powerful for our community. It's not just harm to adults but the children like your grandchildren and others they're watching. So I would say if you could, my suggestion would be to do a very public learning process and to help us see what it looks like for a self-described redneck to kind of see what this anti-racism is all about because there's so many wonderful things about redneck culture. It doesn't have to be associated with racism at all. And I would love to see an anti-racist redneck movement coming right out of Waterbury and joining with work and moving forward that way. And I still do think the most powerful way to do that would be for you to step away completely and say I need to go focus on learning right now. This is not about me keeping my power and doing a show for it but I'm actually gonna go learn some stuff and I'll be ready to share publicly and I'm sure the community would be ready to listen and to support you in your journey. So I wrote to you on the board and I offer anything I can support you with. I'd love to talk to you and I have resources and other people that I could connect you with but either way it looks like you're taking some steps in that direction. I think it's much appreciated. Thank you, Mike. Thanks for hearing me out. Maureen has asked for time. Maureen McCracken. And then Mark, I don't know, we're nearing that 25-minute mark so you wanna say one more or two more? Okay. Okay, hi, I'm actually Kate Maureen's daughter. I just wanna say something really quickly. I do wanna say that I hear both Meg and Chris expressed that they have been uncomfortable in the last few weeks and that they felt they have been bullied. First, I wanna say that many of us did reach out to you privately as a couple of people have said before to have less public confrontation but it didn't seem that you listened to us or responded to any of our emails. So it kinda hurts to hear you say that you would like us to be nicer to you because we did try many, many times. I also wanna address that people of color have felt discomfort their entire lives, their ancestors have felt discomfort. And so maybe this week is a good example for you to understand just the taste of what people of color experience in our country. And I really do hope that you can eventually come to understand how making yourself out to be a victim is really hurtful to people who are affected by your statements. Thank you, that's all I have to say. At the moment, no one else has asked for time to speak. So, Mark, do you wanna call? I would like to speak, sorry. Who is this? This is Meredith Kelty. Oh, I'm sorry, all right, Meredith. That's okay, I put it in the chat but I think I sent it to somebody. They may not have overlooked, I apologize. That's okay. So hi, Chris, I just wanted to talk to you for a few minutes. I'm a ninth generation Vermonter. I have two black children who live in this community. They were very hurt by your comments. I think you need to step down and I think you need to do some learning like Leif suggested. I think you should learn about racism. I think you should learn about how your comments impacted people. My boys were really hurt by what you said. They love this community. We've been welcomed in this community. People know my kids in this community. I'm sure you've seen them walking down the street. They're very amashed in this community and they were hurt by your comments. So I hope at least that you're going to apologize and do some learning. And as a ninth generation Vermonter, I love Vermont and I don't think just having an excuse that I'm a redneck is enough. I think you really need to do some learning and think about the statements you've made. That's all I have. Thank you, Meredith. Mark, we have Danny asking to say one more quick thing. I'm going to leave that up to you. Do you want to call this the last public speaker? Yeah, well, I see that in the chat. Danny, if you could keep it under a minute, please. Thanks. Absolutely. I guess I worked really hard on trying to be empathic and compassionate in my approach to Chris that I think that I'm regretting leaving out the empathy and compassion to the black and brown folks in our community. It would be really regretful if I got off this video without remedying that. So with what I said, I just want to express the sorrow and apology and empathy towards everyone in our community who were deeply hurt by the statements that Chris made. And I think there's room for both, but I can't leave that out knowing how many people were affected and were seriously hurt. So I just needed to say it out loud before we go. So thank you so much. Thank you. Is there anyone else that didn't get a chance to speak? We're going to move away from the public comment. Just so everyone understands what happened tonight, Chris has stepped down as chair. I'm vice chair. It does not make me chair, but I'm going to continue the meeting forward. I think this is an extremely important conversation we had tonight and it will only start to the education process for the board and for our community as we start to address these issues more and more. So I appreciate everyone coming out. We struggle sometimes to get participation in select board meetings and it's unfortunate maybe how this came about, but I think these are extremely important conversations that I look forward to learning. And I assume the other board members do as well. So I thank you for that. I don't know if any board members want to speak before we enter into the rest of the meeting. We do have quite a few things on the agenda, but I don't know if any of the other board members want to speak to this or Chris, I didn't know if you wanted to respond at all before we move forward. It doesn't look like anyone would like to speak. So we're going to move on to manager's items. Is Bill still with us? Bill is with us. Yes, I'm here. I'm just trying to toggle back and forth between full screens of 50 people and agendas and everything else. So just bear with me. Okay, the first item that I want to talk about I sent out to the board the other day a memo and in it was a letter from the Capital Fire Mutual Aid System. And this was forwarded to me by Gary Dylan, the fire chief. And it's pretty self-explanatory, I think. We're just getting into the budget process and we pay Capital Fire Mutual Aid for dispatching for both the fire department and for Washington, the ambulance. And we're paying right now in 2020 about $79,600. So about $80,000 for dispatching. And this letter outlines an upgrade to communications facilities and infrastructure that the system is proposing. We paid for over 10 years and each community that is a member of the system will pay about $2,500 a year. So that would be $25,000 for the town. And I just wanted to give the select board an opportunity to understand that before we get into the budgeting process, Gary is here, Sally Dylan, who is Deputy Fire Chief and Assistant Chief was Waterbury's representative on this committee. So they're both here and can speak to this if they would like, but I just wanted to put that out there. And as I said, if we had to do this on our own, just doing the research would probably cost us way more than $2,500. So with that, I'll stop and just let Gary and Sally make a couple of comments and then see if more to ask questions. Yeah. Can you hear me? I'm not used to this. Anyways, the mutual aid systems radio and repeater system is about antiquated. And so there's been a committee, Sally's been on the committee for more than a couple of years and it has done a lot of research into how we can get our system into the 21st century, have a system that works for all the departments and not just a few that are in the more centralized area. So the committee went out, they did a lot of research, requested some bids, there was a movement to become part of the Central Vermont Public Safety Authority that is kind of fizzled out. There was some grant processes that were gone through and one of the bids, if you will, or I won't even say it was a quote, an estimate was hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not, so it was, yeah, the original estimate was about $700,000 more than what we have now. And so the committee looked at this alternate way of doing things and rather than hitting communities, some much smaller than Waterbury and would find it impossible to pay for and paying for this upgrade in one year, that this seems to be the most equitable way and it's fair for all the departments. Everybody needs, doesn't matter if you're a small department that has 50 calls a year, our call volume is down, but it's certainly more than a lot of them but not as much as some others. But everybody needs those towers, everybody needs those dispatchers, everybody needs the radio system. And so that is the fairest way to approach this and it's spread out over 10 years so that it doesn't hurt communities in a pocketbook in one year. And that's really what they were trying to do is not impact these departments that truly cannot afford, thousands and thousands of dollars in one year. I or Sal, who's been on the committee and done a lot of the work with public safety authority and our mutual aid communications committee can probably answer any specific questions that you have but this is gonna make everybody's communications a lot better that we're moving the tower that's in Waterbury from the location that it's currently at up to Blush Hill. There's some little things that have got to be worked out nothing insurmountable, but that will help not only Waterbury but down through the Watesfield, Mortown and Warren Valley as well. So it's all part of it but that's the easiest part, quite honestly. Yeah, I think this seems to make sense. Any board members have any comments, Bill? Do you have any comments? Mark, I have no problems with this at all. Communications in our society is such a critical thing and especially with our first responders, this is just a small cost and it's a cost of doing business for our community. We need the communication and I think the cost is gonna, it's just a small price to pay. So I'm definitely in favor of this. Thank you. Bill, do we need to make a motion on this? It wouldn't hurt. I think just having the board acknowledge receipt of the information from Capital Fire Mutual A then indicating to the chiefs that we're on board with this is fine and they can communicate that back. I think that's good enough for now. Would anyone like to make a motion? I make a motion to approve borrowing to finance capital spending for, not saying the right thing, Bill? No, we're not at capital spending now, we're on. Well, dispatching equipment. Looking at the wrong thing on my screen. I think all you need to do is save the board acknowledges receipt of this information and directs the chiefs to communicate that to Capital Fire Mutual Aid and then we'll incorporate it in the budget. I think that's good enough for now. So moved. Is there a second? A second. Any further discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Thank you. Borrowing to finance capital purchases. Okay, I sent out three different spreadsheets here that kind of walk us through this. If you look at the one that's entitled October funds 70 through 73 and 75 and 76. I think that's the one that, of course, my computer is giving me problems. Hang on a second, I gotta find that now. So that first spreadsheet is really the budget for the capital funds, paving fund, infrastructure, CIP, highway vehicles, fire vehicles and recreation. And, you know, back in the winter, last winter we put together a budget and made that proposed budget available at the found meeting. And we incorporated into that the borrowing necessary to finance the fire truck that we actually had approved back last November at the special town meeting. And at that same town meeting in November a year ago the roadside moor was approved. And the authorization was to borrow up to $950,000 for two fire trucks and $125,000 for the roadside moor. In the spring, when we were putting the budget together the select board had some reservations about borrowing all of it. They asked, you know, what can we do to maybe reduce the borrowing a little bit? So for the two fire trucks, although we were authorized to borrow $950,000 the budget called for borrowing $902,500 which in effect was shading one year's life off of the debt service over 20 years. And the fact that we weren't gonna be getting the second truck until well into the second year we just got it a couple of weeks ago that that borrowing would even be less over time. So we put that together and then in April when COVID in about, we made some other decisions to try to save money in order to basically keep some cash on hand because we didn't know what was gonna be happening with our reminisce during this year. So several of the CIPs we reduced the transfers from the operating funds. So if you look at the paving fund, we decided to keep the paving fund basically, we held that harmless. We had proposed $447,655 in the transfer from the highway fund and we proposed $100,000 from the pilot payment. And we proposed spending about $557,000 including the debt service. It does look like we will be paid a full pilot payment this year. We received information from the state over the weekend. So that $100,000 pilot payment will be available this year. We didn't quite spend the $500,000 in the paving fund that we had available but pretty close about $107,000. Bill, while you're on that topic, did they mention anything about next year's pilot payment and in that being at risk at all? Not yet, they have not. My suspicion, and we'll have to wait a little bit, but I'll be in contact with our state representatives fairly soon to ask them to keep us apprised as soon as possible about what next year will look like. I expect next year's pilot payment will go down because the revenue source, which is the meal stack that clearly has taken a hit since COVID came into play. So anyway, in the infrastructure CIP, we're proposing to transfer over a little less money. Proposing borrowing a little less money than we had originally proposed and so on and so forth down the line. So up at the top of the page, to the right of the budget columns, I put some notes in there. So we budgeted to transfer for operating funds $1,065,155. What we proposed to do and what I've shown here is to transfer $972,705, which is about $92,450 less than we had originally proposed that money will be saved in the general fund. We'll stay there and we'll not be transferred to the CIPs. We had authority from the voters between last fall's meeting and this spring's meeting to borrow $1,375,000, $950 for the two fire trucks, $125,000 for the roadside mower and $300,000 that was authorized in March to finance the two million plus CIP expenditures that we were proposing for this year. What we would be able to borrow would be the $1,366,880. The roadside mower didn't cost $125, it cost $160,880. So that's the most we could borrow there. So authorized was $1,375,000,000, we would be able to borrow $1,366,880. I think that's what I would recommend that we borrow, but this budget, those things that are highlighted in blue background, $175,000 in the infrastructure CIP, the 185 in the vehicle CIP and so forth, those highlighted in blue add up to 1,262,500, which is about $50,000 less than we showed in the budget last year. So I think it would be better for us if we can make the case to a bank to lend us the full $1,366,880 that I think I would recommend doing that. I think you're gonna get as low an interest rate this year as you're ever gonna be able to get and getting some cash into our coffers that we can carry forward into next year, knowing that we're likely gonna have a reduction in pilot payments. I think that you should borrow as much as the bank will allow you to borrow. Now, it's possible the bank might come back and say, well, the budget that was proposed for capital expenses authorized borrowing $1,312,890. If that's what they say we can borrow, I would borrow that. But in the spring, we had talked about hedging even the borrow a little bit. So in the spring back in April or May when we talked about this, the board kind of talked about $1,262 million. So with that, I'm gonna stop for a second. The other spreadsheets that I sent out, really two spreadsheets that just kind of show you what our existing debt looks like right now and what it could be or would be if we went forward and borrowed the $1,366,880. And I don't wanna walk us all through that until you get to ask some questions maybe about the budget first. But I think if you look at those two spreadsheets, it contemplates refunding the $1,366 million next year converting that into a bond that goes out for 20 years. And I think especially for the fire trucks that is what we should do because they have 20 year lives. We don't have to make a decision on the refunding tonight. The purposes of this, these two spreadsheets is just to show you what our existing debt looks like and what I think it would, how it would be impacted if we borrowed the $1,366 million this year. So I promised to stop two minutes ago so I'll stop talking now. So just so I'm clear, Bill, you're suggesting we borrowed an additional about $50,000 to just as a protection for cash position going into the next year? Yeah, I think after I did the analysis and if you look at this, the spreadsheet that is entitled has an A at the end of it. You know, we have borrowed from ourselves money for infrastructure CIT, for the grader, for the fire rescue truck and for the fire tower truck. You know, we've borrowed significant monies for that. We've reduced the amount that we owe ourselves. And in the spring, you agreed to cut the borrowing the interest rate on that payment to ourselves to 1.85% for this year. And in the 2020 column for interest for those four loans to ourselves, that interest tax stabilization fund interest for the infrastructure CIT at 14,030 down to the fire vehicle CIT for the tower truck at 3868. Those numbers are all lower than we initially had proposed to pay ourselves. And then going forward, I think what we should do, whether we continue to pay that to ourselves or might borrow from E5, we should match whatever interest rate we get from the bank for those loans. And my guess is, but for those that probably two and a quarter percent. So given the low interest rate environment that we're in Mark and the fact that we are very unsure about non-tax revenues next year, I think borrowing this money now is a worthwhile thing. Is there a cost to it? Of course, there's a cost to borrowing. You know, there's no question that it will cost money over time. But what I try to remember is that on that 1.366 million, for example, if we pay that over 20 years, you know, it's about $68,000 a year that we would have to pay principal and interest. And over 20 years, you know, that would be about 1.8 million. So it's about $500,000 more than if we just paid cash for this, but $68,000 a year, it's less than a penny and it's also, you know, they're discounted dollars as you move forward, the $68,000 that you're gonna be paying in 2034 or 2041, it's gonna be a lot less valuable than the $68,000 that you're paying in the earlier years. So I think it makes sense. I know that some members have a very different philosophy about borrowing than I do, but I can only recommend to you what I think is best given the circumstances. Bill? Yep. Question. I also, I'm kind of like you, I believe in at least authorizing the maximum, so we don't have to go back on the situation, but going back again to Mark's question, what is the likelihood of, you know, we're probably gonna see some sort of reduction in pilot payments. Do you have any kind of intuition from Vermont League of Cities and Towns or something, what we might see as reduction from pilot? I don't yet, Mike. I would hope that maybe by December or January, when we're really in the midst of the budgeting process that we'll know that, I think we're gonna get $344,000 this year, which is, you know, it's a pretty big chunk of change. And, you know, Mark can tell better than I can in terms of, you know, what percentage of business restaurants doing now compared to a year ago. And, you know, the pilot money comes from, I think there's 13 pounds that have local option taxes. And I don't know if business is much better in stone than it is in Waterbury, but stone has a local option tax. There's those Williston, Burlington, and several other communities around here. I don't have the information yet, but my suspicion is it's gonna be off rather informatically. That's kind of my question. I, you know, I didn't think it was gonna be as long as toward the end of next year, but I thought we might, you know, know that within the month or something like that. But it sounds like it's not that imminent. And so we probably need to go forward in one shape, way, shape, or form. We'll probably, I can probably get some information, Mike, that we would have by the end of next month or the beginning of January. I'm not saying we're gonna have to wait a whole year from now to get the answer. But my suspicion based on just my own, you know, going to restaurant habits, which are far produced from what they used to be. And from what I've been hearing, my guess is that these revenues are way down for these establishments that are really pulling up that revenue that the state sends to us. So Mark was gonna say something. He might have some insight. Yeah, I'm on quite a few committees that might build together that information pretty quickly after the end of December, but we could probably even go off the end of October's numbers and start to understand how to budget for next year, which I think is the next agenda item. So I think we need to play it safe there and project down a certain percentage. And if it comes in, we've done that before, and if it comes in higher. So I can try to see if I can find out any information at least through the end of October, which might help us because when we're in January, we're already starting to set, you know, kind of a focus on budget. Okay, well, that would be helpful. Now, as I said in my memo to you, what I would propose is you folks as the select will give me some direction tonight. Tell me how much you want to borrow. And then I would solicit proposals from the banks and likely would, you know, give them some time and probably come back at your first meeting in December and say, okay, this is what the banks propose. Now, you know, I can ask the question of the banks a number of ways, I could say, you know, we want to borrow 1.366 million. What would the interest rate be on that? What if we borrowed 1.262 million? Would the interest rate be higher on that, lower on that? I mean, we don't have to make all these decisions tonight, but I'm just, if you don't have the appetite to borrow the full amount, 1.366, I don't want to ask that question. So that's why we're talking about this now, but my hope is that at the meeting in December, the first meeting in December, I'll have worked out with the banks what the best deal is, they'll come back to the select board that night, get approval and then, you know, have the money dispersed to us at the end of December. And I'd like to make it as, you know, get the disbursement as late in the year as possible because the first payment, or the first payment, is due 12 months after the loan is released and if we're going to potentially refund the note, that gives me a lot of time to work with the loan bank and or the banks that we have that borrow the money by note from to convert that to a longer term. So I'm just trying to get your sense tonight whether you feel comfortable with any of these numbers and let me know. So I'll just talk about it. Mark? Yeah, go ahead. I just want to ask Bill, are you anticipating any other outside of the paving budget that you've proposed? Any other major infrastructure issues, problems, projects? Yeah, so this budget that I'm showing you here, Chris, in these spreadsheets is the 2020 budget. I don't have the 21 budget ready to go. There are certain things that we proposed in 2021 that we're going to do. We had a couple of bridge projects in particular that we set aside. We set aside some of the work on the highway garage to do some upgrades there. We will have a proposal for a 2021 CIP. I think paving and finishing up some of the sidewalk work that is right in the middle of the downtown that isn't part of the main street project will probably be priorities of staff and paving. And then if we can get back to those bridge projects that we had to put on the back corner this year, I still think we probably were not have as fully robust CIP project list as we have in the past, just because we're still on pretty uncertain ground, but we will have proposals there. I would hope, and I will try to work with department heads that whatever we do in 2000, 2021 can be done without any additional borrowing. So I'm kind of looking at 2019 and 20, we took a lot of money out of our tax stabilization fund last year to buy that fire truck that we bought a year ago. And if you remember, I worked with Paul Giuliani and the select board passed a refunding resolution to make sure that we could pay ourselves back in that tax stabilization fund or the CIP fund back, if you will. So we're doing that. And I'm hopeful that between this borrowing and the fact that we have pulled in our spending and crossing fingers that our resources are not going to drop off dramatically. We don't know about taxes because it's coming pretty steadily, but we still have a long way to go before we're going to know how much delinquency we had on taxes. But I'm hoping that in 2021, we won't be going back to the select board or to the voters to ask for any additional borrowers. We might, I might be coming back to the select board to try to refinance the debt to stretch it out over a longer period to reduce the payments and match the life expectancy of these projects a little bit better. But I don't anticipate any bond votes. And I'm hoping that we have any borrowers in addition to this next year. So does it make sense to maximize these infrastructure projects if you think we got them? Others coming? Would it make sense to have them drop off the docket there sooner than later so that freeze up some of the money for anything additional coming? I don't understand what you're saying. Well, when the loan payments are, if you maximize the loan payments, you're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. And the loan payments are, if you maximize, I'm assuming what you're talking about is some of the paving projects. You're thinking about maximizing the life expectancy of the project or by extending the, by extending the note out closer to the, there's really the paving projects. If you look at that budget that, that I showed you, except for inter fund borrowing, there's no additional borrowing towards the paving projects. After the Perry Hill project, which, you know, was, I think we've paid 40 years out of 10 so far, we haven't borrowed anything more for paving. So paving, we're kind of paying as we go. What I'm talking about doing now is borrowing $902,500 towards the two firetrucks that we have just purchased, borrowing money for that roadside mower and borrowing money for the roadside mower and a part of the tandem truck, but we're in the process of buying now. That's where the borrowing that I'm talking about today will go. And some of it will be going toward the infrastructure project, which, you know, you can pick it. I mean, Main Street, it's a good deal for us, but over the two year period, two and a half year period, we're going to pay whatever, $300,000 or so. So this borrowing that I'm talking about now is to pay for things that we purchased last year and this year. I'm not talking about next year right now. No, I understand that, but you had mentioned something about sending out some of the infrastructure projects a little longer towards the closer to the life expected. I was just wondering what you were. So, you know, so in that, that's the, that's the spreadsheet that shows the debt source. And what we'll be asking the bank for right now is whatever amount of money there's select board besides the fund, we'll be asking the bank to issue us that loan on a five year note. And then, so let's just say you choose the, you know, 1,000,000, 366,880. On that spreadsheet that I showed you, going forward, we would take that five year note next year 1,000,000,366,880 and I just, I projected a 3.25% interest rate. It's just a guess, but I'm hoping it will be lower than that, but it's a reasonable guess. Then in 2021, what I would do is work again with Paul Giuliani, refund that note, refinance that and change over that note from a from a five year note to a 20 year note. And in 2021, we would simply pay moving over to the right on that line would pay $44,000 of interest next year on that note. And we would pay any principal and then in the following year, 2022 would make our first principal payment for that 20 year note. Now, when we make that decision a year from now, Chris, maybe the board will say, well, you know, we're okay with refunding the note and turning you know, $900,000 of it into a long-term bond for the two fire trucks. But you know what, let's pay for the let's pay for the roadside mower and for, you know, some of those sidewalks and painting projects. Let's pay for that over five years. So those are things we can decide a year from now, but I'm just showing here that if we refunded the whole thing, you'd be paying basically for the fire truck or the roadside mower and for names, over 20 or 30. Bill, I think your assumptions are right. I think three, even 3.5% we may even be able to do better than that as rates are kind of as, you know, they're almost in a falling mode. So I think your assumptions are good. Again, I would probably err on the side of you know, going for the larger amount, it's kind of edging our bets. And I think it's just a good decision. We don't have to come back, but that's my opinion. I would like to hear. I'm curious what other people think. I'd echo that, Mike. I think that I trust Bill's gut on this and if he feels like we ought to we ought to go for the big amount at the lowest rate right now while we can. I say I say that's the safest bet. I don't have any issues with that either. Can you tell me, Bill when our last payment there on the Main Street project was done as far as our 2% another year? The project is scheduled to run through June of 21, Chris. So probably we've paid this year we paid 160,000 so far. That's probably going to be higher than that. I'm not sure what I projected. Yeah, the 167, 895 that we've paid so far this year includes the water and sewer portion of what the cost is and then at the end of the year when the project is closed up for the winter the water and sewer department from E5 will reimburse us for that so I'm projecting 160 for this year last year it was about 172 so it might be a little higher than the 160 and then next year it's the last 6 months well the last 4 months of the project I hope so we'll be done with that certainly by this time next year I think we'll have made our last tangent Chris. And that's all being paid through the current act rate that we have right now that's all being covered under the yeah I mean that's basically the cost of the machine of the roadside moor one year, boom absolutely right but we did have authority this year to borrow $300,000 towards the $2.1 million or whatever it was of spending that we were going to do this year and of course the mainstream project is part of our spending this year so it just depends on how you slice it it's $300,000 out of $2.1 million so it's about 15% of our spending that we were planning to borrow this year well once the mainstream project is done I mean that frees up that money Bill tell me results that's good Katie do you have anything or I think we can probably move forward Bill I assume this is a motion yeah a motion to authorize me to seek to borrow up to whatever information is the $1,366,000 Katie do you have anything you want to add I would just say I'm on board with Bill's recommendation and also Bill I would love to meet later whenever you're free to go over this point by point with paper that'd be awesome whenever you're available sure the joys of fund accounting yeah thank you Bill for putting this together I think I've stated before that I think it makes sense that we try to amortize some of the spending over at least a good portion of the lifetime of some of these large investments and I think rates are at a great position right now it makes sense to do some borrowing and I think it will create some savings and I think the idea of reconfiguring some debt too is a good one that we should explore further I think we should get a motion then sounds like we're all in agreement of allowing Bill to Bill how do you want the motion to be stated authorize the manager to solicit proposals for borrowing up to $1,366,880 would anyone like to make that motion I get a second second any further discussion all those in favor please say aye aye thank you I have too many screens open I think there's more manager items plus the ones we added yeah so the final manager item is simply to have a brief discussion with you tonight about about borrowing I mean about the 2021 budget and in the memo I sent to you the other day I just said we're still flying a bit blind with regard to revenues I think we've had a little of that cleared up just over the weekend that we will receive the full pilot payment this year it appears we're still waiting on the taxes to do the week or so and we've collected over a million dollars in taxes today I think Karen told me so I just want some input from the board about what you might have told next year I think that it appears COVID at the moment is not a dating it's going in a direction in terms of new cases that none of us wants to see it go and there's more and more talk about potential additional shutdowns as painful as that might appear but right now that seems more likely than just everything is back to normal on January 1st so I just wondered if the board had any direction to give me about next year's budget and as I said it's not necessarily easy to get there because there's a million ways to get to the same point but if the board decides we set a tax rate this year at 51 cents even though the voters authorized 55 cents we want a tax rate no greater than whatever you feel comfortable with that's probably the easiest way for me to have some good direction because if you tell me you want the tax rate you know to increase by no more than 5% well it was 51 cents this year that means it's 53.5 cents next year if I have a municipal tax rate as a target then when we get information about pilot payments and current use payments that we get from the state I can manipulate those numbers and at some point I'll be able to say okay that kind of accounts for the non-tax revenue that we have that leaves us with this amount of money to get to that tax rate and then we can set a spending budget knowing the limit of what we spent quickly you know I go to the department heads I ask them what they want to do they put together a whole proposal we want to go this program or we want to add that program we want to buy this vehicle we want to do this and I work with them and I kind of package it to what I think is palatable and always with an eye on how much cash besides how much we're going to have to raise next year but I'm not sure that it's an easy way to do a budget this year when there's so much uncertainty so I'm just seeing if you have any questions or guidance that you want to share that's all. Phil, I'm leaning toward and I am conservative but especially we still have a lot of people hurting in town I'm leaning to a budget that at least holds the budget line where it is there's so much uncertainty with COVID I think for us to look at a raise this year unless we're absolutely forced to for some reason I would look at some sort of budget cuts you know in certain areas rather than increase the budget the other thing I'm looking at is do we want to consider as we did this year having only one tax payment I don't know if that would and maybe you could comment if that from the taxpayer was a hurtful thing a good thing you know COVID's not going away and I think we're going to have it through a good portion of next year I would like to say that I'm wrong but I don't I think COVID's going to be with us for a while and I'm almost leaning to if we avoid that summertime payment and just go to a one you know November payment that may be better for the majority of taxpayers but tell me if I may be off base well there's a couple of issues there and I think we need to take one at a time I think we can have the discussion on tax payment dates a little bit later so Mike just to clarify what you're saying you said you know you want to kind of hold the budget line there's a couple of different things there so are you saying that you want to maintain a 51 percent tax rate are you saying that you don't want the budget any higher than it was that we proposed meeting in 2020 for spending are you saying that you want the budget to be a care down budget that we came back to the if you decide that I want to keep the tax rate at a certain level right there's a lot of ways to get there and you look at all your information how much cash do we have on hand what the non-tax revenues look like next year and then that leaves us with how much we have to spend if you're just saying I don't want to spend any more than we spent in 2020 you know even after we kind of pull things back that's a very different thing and I would suspect if we put a budget together that captured our year end 2020 spending the tax rate would probably not need to be anywhere above the 51 cents I think we're going to have some cash on hand this year I'm not certain of that but I think because that pilot payment is coming through 100% this year we're going to be ok the taxes is still a question but they're coming in to clarify I was leaning toward a 51 cent tax rate ok other board members conversation just to kick this around a little bit still any idea of any available grants for for structure work like still street roads getting pretty horrible well there are grants out there there are state programs out there what he was talking to me the other day I think with regard to class 2 paving I think he said we're fifth on the list I don't know if that means statewide or in this district but we're in a pretty good position on paving grants for class 2 highways we're not in such good shape when it comes to bridge program grants we're much lower on the priority list there but the big question is you can be at the top of the list but if the legislature doesn't fund the program because of their own problems there's no guarantee so I think I'm going to be putting together a budget that presumes no grant money no big grant money for these infrastructure projects of paving will apply for them certainly and if we get them great but I'm going to try to build a budget that does not contemplate those I guess my real question was were you aware of whether or not the state was going to be able to fund those no not yet I mean obviously there's going to be a new legislature in January there'll be some different people there so they're going to start to scratch Phil while Chris brought it up something like Stow Street you know if we are trying to time grants are we running risk of not being able to do a grinding pave how do we work to make sure that we're not losing an opportunity to do something that might be more affordable than having to do a complete repaving well I think that Stow Street does have some issues and our preference would be to at least do some work on the part of Stow Street between Main Street and the bridge that Stow Street project is touching but not completing you know I think we should put ourselves in a position with the way we use our cash flow is that we probably should do the projects when they need to be done there's we have other class two roads that are in need of assistance in terms of paving so if we decide we're going to do Stow Street and the grant money is not available this year we end up doing it anyway we pay for it we finance it for ourselves and then the next year we program whatever street or whatever class two street that is next in the queue so we kind of got into that trap a number of years ago where we had proposed to do Stow Street but the grant money didn't come through so we pushed it off and waited a year the grant money didn't come through and then the road to the rates gets to be way more costly than we'd like to see I'll say that I also hope that we can try to keep the tax rate flat as a goal because there are going to be a lot of people that are struggling and we don't know what's going to happen on a federal level I think a lot of people were held up by some of the money that came out of Washington but without that maybe going into next year I think there might be some people that are really hurting so I think anything we can do to try to not impact that in terms of grant lists do you know what the percentage growth was this year or that are coming online like the hotels we had in the past but overall Mark we're probably seeing an increase in values especially with the in migration of people from out of state you know raising some you know the selling prices of some of the houses on the market so I don't know if we if we're not reappraising I don't know if that comes into effect yet right it doesn't it does a little bit yeah so between 2019 and 2020 our grant list goes not quite nine tenths of one percent you know I would I would hope that maybe would have a percent or a little bit more between 20 and 21 early in the season and you know and Chris would probably speak to it better than us but I know that our zoning office was quite busy and we had a lot of things not necessarily I mean there were there were houses that would build no question about it but people did significant renovations they added decks and apartments over garages and things like that but I and have report back to you at the next meeting I don't have a good handle on it I would probably budget like half I had to one percent increase and just see where that takes us yeah I don't know that it surpasses last year's growth by a whole lot I mean I'm probably as busy as I've ever been some of it's in this town and some of it's in an area but I know from other contractors that everybody is pretty right out straight just seeing what's going on here and down I mean we have a couple bigger projects that are going to come on the tack for all stuff that going on down in the village where the old first bank was there and Mike Bell is at the bell block there that's you know the building there on Stow Street but on the flip side and we have to be careful nothing came of it but you know the the folks who own Children's Park you know they they they appeal there well they wrote a letter suggesting that they were overvalued based on the fact that they've got properties that are vacant having a difficult time finding leases you know the hotels I think are often appraised on an income basis so there could be even though we've had some growth in the residential grand list in particular there could be some losers if you will from the grand list on the commercial side so we've got to be careful so I mean I think that I wouldn't budget for more than a percent just to be safe we didn't even get a percent last year so I think there's question marks out there I guess so I've heard a couple say hold fast at 51 cents is that a consensus of the board for now yeah I'm happy with that you know my biggest concern like I've always expressed to you is not backing off from the amount of that we've been managing here the last couple of years because we're making some headway getting to the goal of having a better cycle of maybe repays rather than costly reclaim and repave so we can continue that and meet that goal I think we'll be saving a lot of money at the end of the day I agree with what Chris says you know we we want to I think hold that tax rate at 51 cents and do what we can to maintain some of the projects that are ongoing I would echo that last meeting where we discussed this I was on board keeping the tax rate the same to help with the financial burden from COVID that our community felt I don't own a house in the community yet but I have heard around the community people's opinions and thoughts and their stresses with it I kind of thought back to that meeting a couple different times kind of kicking myself even if we had just raised a cent maybe a little bit more and you know what we agreed on and still be less than what the taxpayers approved like we wouldn't be going up to the full 55 cents but I'm okay with keeping the same or raising it just a cent because it's still less than what they approved yeah I would go even one further and say that you know with all the uncertainty that we're going through right now I think we're headed for a major ripple effect you know where we're only just we're less than a year into this thing and a lot of people are still trying to figure out their own existence and I think a year from now is when things are really going to start to hit and you know we're going to find out who actually who actually was able to hang on through this whole thing that we call COVID and I think there's going to be a lot of places that are suffering next year financially and there could be a pretty big hit to our bottom line you know I don't want to be a scare tactic but I think that we need to be realistic and say that you know one percent growth might be negated so holding the line on this I think is probably the least we can do to have a very conservative budget and I think the big concern comes as it was kind of mentioned I'm really concerned about commercial real estate you're seeing it may be a positive for business but a lot of businesses are embracing virtual business commercial real estate people are learning to operate remotely and if corporate headquarters and such they could downsize and have their staff you know it may be better for their staff so they don't have to commute you know like we have people who work in Burlington they don't have to commute into Burlington that's going to be a plus if we're moving from the hinterlands into Waterbury you know if they could live up in Belvedere and you know be virtually online that's going to really impact a lot of commercial leasing so it's something that I guess we as I think that says we're probably not going to see what's going to happen for another year so if we could hold the line at least temporarily that's going to be healthy you know you know to speculate that the state complex might come almost obsolete at some point you're right you lose a lot of the pilot right unless it gets sold off to private industry or private investors could become a business incubator who knows what it's going to become nobody's got a crystal ball brave new world Bill do you have everything you need for that to move forward for tonight? I'm sure your challenge of keeping it flat again is always a tough one but we appreciate the work that you do it's just a lot easier to know now and start thinking about that now so we'll work on it keep you apprised and we'll all get there I think thank you no no motion right no no no motion I think next Mike you had added the health officer discussion yes we had a meeting of Waterbury leaders from different sorts and there was a lot of discussion about especially you can relate to this Mark a lot of especially the restaurants were really concerned about what do we do if an employee has a staff member or if they have a customer you know go in and what advice should they give and I think the consensus around the table was it would be really helpful to have a health officer and I know we've kind of been patching that health officer job along through town staff and select board folks they really are urging that we proactively seek someone for the position of health officer and I would like to get people's input on that I'm sure Bill and Chris would be very happy about that well just so everyone knows right now Chris and this will be changing but we don't have a health officer right now Beth Ann Mayer was the last health officer that was recommended to the Department of Health by the select board and she had been looking her term expired a couple of months ago and she asked indicated she had no desire to continue I have been the Deputy Health Officer for a long time now and you know nominated for that position by the select board and I have my appointment from the Commissioner of the Department of Health when Beth Ann Mayer stepped down or did not get re-appointed and the select board did not appoint anyone the law states that the chairperson of the select board is the de facto health officer so I don't know if Chris has received any calls but he's on the list somewhere as health officer the system is not a great system where the health officer and the deputy health officers are agents of the State Department of Health it's a it's a position that's nominated by the select board would sit with the select board as a member of the Board of Health if that situation was ever necessary there's marginal training that's offered by the State from time to time the State Health Department along with BLCT provides a training every once in a while for health officers there's a manual that gets sent out to the health officers and far and away the biggest call for the health officers time in my history has been tenants calling to have the State's rental housing code enforced there is a discussion in the health manual about you know health officers ability to go into restaurants and inspect them but typically full-time people from the Department of Health do that I'm a little skeptical right now simply to say that whether we appointed somebody different or not that we have anybody who's got the qualifications to make decisions especially with regard to COVID so I certainly would not be comfortable doing that you know there's been more circulating around rumors I've been called by the press a couple of times well I've heard there's you know there's an issue with COVID at the American Legion and I've heard that folks from there have been going to such and such restaurants is this true you know you see a post on Fort Forge Form a restaurant seeking a number of wait-staff and cook positions well does that mean that people have quit there I don't know I don't have any qualifications to go into any restaurant or any kitchen and inspect it I could use the health department manual but when it comes to COVID I'm not sure that would be uncomfortable doing any of that totally understand Bill but I think that's where a lot of the restaurant community and some of the other business community is maybe looking at the health officer as being a resource you know maybe not that person but you know we're really in a crazy world right now and people are looking for help these folks community leaders around town are looking is that where can the business community get help and they think it would be somehow via a health officer I'm not saying the health officer is going to be the one but at least maybe being a resource person and I'm not saying at all that Chris I know was appointed via his role as select board chair and I know you've been acting as you know the deputy health officer and basically acting in that role but I guess they're looking at maybe there is someone a doctor in our community who would be willing to step forward and go into that role by advertising I just don't know I figured I would at least bring the subject up I'll jump in my name and restaurants previously you know right now we're following the direction of the ACCT it is it is a gray you know even just the rule book isn't very clear and if you look around I've been to quite a few places I've looked at many places and you know the table space and a bunch of other rules seems like there's quite a bit of room for interpretation I think each of us needs to follow the rules and you know make our own decisions on what we think is safe which you know a lot of the industry was closing down before even the state mandated us to do so which is a tough decision I think finding someone in this position that would actually be a resource I think is going to be the hardest thing right now we're you know we're in touch industry with the governor's office and we're taking a lot of direction from there and you know we have to do contact tracing and if there is anyone who is connected to the business they'll call us to let us know and then you know they try to do the backwards and they let us know whether they think anyone's at risk and if we should close some businesses are making the decision to close and that's simply just a little bit I think is of concern for safety but some of it too is just public perception of their fear of not getting into the community and what that means for their business and so on so yeah I mean it's and we some of us share employees and that's another challenge that we're trying to navigate and it's flu season and you know how do you navigate a sick employee we always have employees that come down with flu every year it's the right thing to do it's scary and you know luckily testing is becoming a really achievable thing many employees go out and get testing there's those pop-up tests that are all over the state and I've had a few already I think that's really a huge part of the solution is going to be testing but you know if we could find a way to make a health officer really mean we could go to I would be in support of it but right now I think there's enough knowledge at a state level that we're going and using those resources if and when we can and using groups like RW to help us with the communication through the other state groups like the Vermont Chamber yeah so I think that's my quick and dirty of that world I really think if it's something that the board wants to consider it's a lot more complicated than simply advertising and trying to recruit somebody to do this first of all you know you want to make sure you have a really good job description that is backed up by authority if you're going to call the person the health officer it's the appointment it's by the the director of the Vermont Department of Health not by the town manager or by the select board it's a nominated process we would have to work with the health department to make sure that we understood everything that this person would be expected to do and then of course it's the matter of how you compensate them and this is this is a challenge and you know that the rental housing stuff is really it's awful I mean you go into some of these places that people complain about and you wouldn't want your dog to live in that place and then you know you just kind of find yourself caught between a rock and a hard place as you try to mediate between the landlord and the tenant about you know let's try to just move this sort of better situation and it's very very challenging so if it's something the board wants me to look into I can do that with some guidance from the Department of Health but we would have to make sure we're really solid ground before we send anybody out to go and make directives basically in our name I think we don't know if we have qualified candidates until you get the word out there and ask you know we do have a number of doctors within our community they may not be practicing in Waterbury but they're practicing somewhere in Vermont at some level and that's the ask I think we do need a very qualified individual because I know I might you've got to be able to tell them this is what we want you to do this is the authority that you have and you know I can show you the health department handbook and it doesn't say anything about COVID that's for sure well that's where you have to modify things because I think that's the challenge before us and that's where you know RW was the ones there kind of very concerned about that you know they're not as concerned like if you have a business that has an employee who you could send home and they get a sick day when you have a business such as a restaurant and you know someone someone has a you know what could be COVID symptoms you're sending them home and they're probably not they may not be getting paid so it's two different issues and I maybe it's the Vermont Department of Health it's there it's state law the town does not have any health codes we don't have ordinances at the town level that regulate health or safety in restaurants or in apartments it's the state of Vermont through the Department of Health these are all state rules and regulations so I can't we can't just say well you have authority to do this or that it's going to be authority that's granted in the statute so if we want to if we want to look into recruiting a health officer and ask them to be more proactive than we are right now we can do that but it's going to have to be in concert with the health department getting their blessing because it's not our code Mike maybe it would make sense for us to talk after this meeting more about your discussions and touch back with Bill and see if it makes sense to get the board in support but maybe it would make before trying to talk it through tonight I think I understand we are asking for but like Bill is saying I think there's a certain limitations to it we've set ourselves up as a town the only thing we can do is see if we have the board in support for business are valid and the community as a whole maybe we just talk this week and I can reach out to Karen at RW and have a discussion as well and see if there's something that maybe the board can help do through that position maybe we can do it or some other commute Richmond, you know, it's worth, you know, hearing they must have similar issues, but I agree. Let's do that offline. I'm on the board of the story association and we have our big meeting on Wednesday so I can bring it up as a topic of conversation and see what their thoughts are on it as well. Great. Um, and then I think the next item is something I added, which was brought up to me through email and I'm sure others have seen it through front porch forum but it was a request that the board look at education resources for anti racism, and so sensitivity and I know that the state mandates some of this, as Mike had mentioned to me but I reached out to bill and asked him to understand what resources might be available for the board I think educating ourselves as we move the conversation is important and I think education is never risky and I think it's an important thing for us as leaders of the community to look at the resources we have available and the education opportunities you might have and take advantage of those. Um, I think we learned that maybe over the last two weeks that, you know, we all could be more educated on certain topics so I think it's a, it's an opportunity to be better as a board and. Yeah, so I don't know Bill if you had found anything Katie did you want to speak. Quickly, I have an engagement to get to at 930 so I'm just going to add my thoughts in this really quickly. I know I spoke to Mike, and I spoke to Mark about my thoughts on going to trainings and I think that would be awesome I don't think we should go to one I think it should be an ongoing thing where we can learn and go forward with this I also think it would be beneficial for us and the group that Maroney and I believe Aaron is a part of to come in for dialogue and discussion and something you know whenever that works for us at least like you know once a month or once every two months or something just so we can actively engage in meaningful conversation with each other and yeah I'm on board with training together learning and making this process going forward I think it'd be really beneficial for all of us. I agree and I also think that we should get as well as the select board the manager we need to also engage town, you know the town department heads in some way shape or form with sensitivity and diversity training. I think it's good to come through a number through USDA and encourage not even courage we required our staff to take that that training, and I think it's good. There are a number of vendors that we could look at, and, you know, Vermont League of cities and towns, you know, I believe has been a part of that training and I just think it's a great idea, you know, where, you know, you know, sometimes we all can't read people's mind, but sometimes it's the words that you use that can be misconstrued and sometimes we all just be need to be sensitive about the words that we use, and we're all guilty in some way shape or form, whatever, you know. So, but I'm very, very much for going forward with this. So I don't have a whole lot of information right now I think Katie kind of hit the nail on the head reinforced by my, I think we do have the organization in town that has already reached out to us. I'm aware of and know that training is available. We've had experience with the Human Rights Commission here in the past. I think it was Aaron, frankly, back in, in June. I was talking about the Black Lives Matter who suggested that some training would be available through the could be available through the Human Rights Commission I knew that I know they do a training on implicit bias. I have not yet reached out to the League of cities and towns, but that's a good resource that's not suggested, but I see Aaron is still on the call on the zoom meeting. I think they have something that she wants to say, but I think, you know, having, maybe you should designate one or two of you to like board members to reach out to Aaron or, or other members of the committee and and seeing what they have to offer and work with them. We had a couple of staff member employees who come to me and said, you know, if training is going to be offered. I'm very interested. So, you know, I think that including department heads, we still have a line of something we might want to consider as well. So go ahead I see your commenting in the chat. She had posted. I just, yeah, I don't even really say anything I just wanted to say that the Human Rights Commission training I believe is free for public entities and I have some contacts there that I know personally. I'd be happy to, you know, do any research that you guys might need or put you in contact with people but I think that's a good place to to start and I know that they're still doing them through coven throughout coven just via zoom I believe so but bill you and I could connect on that to if you want to I just wanted everybody to know that I'm 100% on board with this effort to willing to be participant in it. With that, I'm going to schedule bill I will reach out to you about connecting. Okay, you're welcome anytime. Like Katie, like Katie, I don't think we need to make a motion but we're going to move forward making sure that we reach out to those groups and work with you continue work with you to figure out what resources are available and present them to the board. Yeah, I've seen a couple of the data just posted and the information that he just sent along the link to the Human Rights Commission I, I have that printed out before he started so we're aware of that but can you literally reach out to me with some of the contacts that you have and we can go from there. Definitely, yeah, I, yeah, I, you know, I'm not an expert on everything that's happening in Vermont, for sure but the work we had a meeting like I mentioned on Tuesday and it was like our first meeting since this community conversation happened, and people were very interested in kind of putting out resources to people, really wanting people to like, you know, understand how they can engage with learning about, you know, racism and anti racism and biases stuff so we have a really good list going so I'm kind of going to tidy that up so I'll share it with you bill and it'll probably be something we kind of put out some way to the whole community. But, again, if you ever have questions bill just email me you have my email and we can, and I can hook you up with resources, kind of that are specific to your needs to. And there's a lot of great people who can do that in town, and who are on this call as well. I guess along the call want to speak to this before I call for a motion to adjourn. Alright, seeing no one I appreciate everyone. I know this wasn't an easy meeting but I think it was an important one and appreciate everyone's time tonight and look forward to where we go from here so I will take a motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. All those in favor please say aye. I, I, I have a good night everyone.