 Sean O'Donohue from the Kelly Beggs Fisherman's Organization Commissioner. I think we know each other pretty well Also a chairman of the Federation of Irish Fishermen I think you you you may be surprised to hear but the number one priority for us in the fishing industry is sustainability So we we fully we fully agree with you in relation to that and we can't have business as usual However, we do we would say to you that Unfortunately the the proposals to back up your sustainability don't match that We don't see that you can deliver the sustainability with the proposals you have at the moment particularly when you when you look at the way you have The devil is in the detail here in relation to this and the proposals don't actually match the principles That's that's really what we're saying So I would ask you in relation to that How do you see the that we can apply maximum sustainable yield to all stocks at the same time? Knowing as you do commissioner, and you're very passionate about this that we do have makes fisheries So it's going to have to be choices made here There is no fisherman I know in the in Europe are indeed in the world that doesn't want to fish at a maximum yield But that's going to have to be choices made here Is it going to be card or is it going to be hurry? But your proposals at the moment saying we must do them all at maximum sustainable sustainable yield so Your principle of sustainability 100% I think we we shouldn't forget as well This is the fourth generation CFP. So we we've had we've had problems in the past and we need to learn from those mistakes The the other thing that I'm disappointed when I would ask you about if you could just ask me Central the decentralization issue. Yes, I think the again This has been a number one priority for us, but unfortunately the text doesn't match the principle and Similarly, and we have to mention this your your Individual transferable concessions. We have a major problem with that in our and I understand What you have said about the safeguards, but unfortunately, we do have Treaties in the European Union and we have gone through European court cases on this and we have We need to learn from our lessons here that if you go down this road It is inevitable there will be there will be a major conglomerates coming here and take over the Irish industry And you can't protect them. So I would ask you how how you hope to reconcile that Thank you very much Do you want to answer that directly or will we take some other questions at the same time or? What do you think it's up to you? Okay, well, maybe if you could just go through those points because I think it gets to the heart of the Yeah, okay, and then Those those two gentlemen over there. Yeah, okay, let me try to give you some short answers because It raised everything. I mean In a very short time I have to admit so a maximum sustainable yield Until 2015. Well, I would like to say that the European Union has committed itself to this This is not my choice. We have signed Johannesburg That we have to reach maximum sustainable yield until 2015 And of course we have to discuss how how we are going to this target And here what I can say is that I'm very very Willing to discuss with you if you need A gradual approach. What do you think has to be done first here? I'm very willing to discuss But we have to have this target We can discuss about how to go there, but we have to have this target and also I think that We have to here to To stick on some positive stories. We have already this year. We are we are going to decide about our Next year's fishing opportunities and we'll have some progress So it can be done in some stocks. We are going with bigger quotas So this means that if we try we can deliver. This is what I can say. I don't want to say more decentralization I would like to here to be absolutely sincere with you I have to respect the treaties The treaties give us a legal framework In which we have To commit ourselves so to make a long story short if you have any any proposal for decentralization That is compatible with the treaties and goes further with my proposal. I will accept it tomorrow Everything you bring to me for further decentralization But with a legal advice saying that this is compatible with the treats. I'll accept immediately Because I have tried a lot and I have exhausted the margins. I think so, but perhaps we are not good You have some ideas. So please come with ideas. I'm going to accept them This is I would like to say it clearly period everything I'm going to accept But under one condition to be legally compatible with the treats About the concessions Well, this is a very difficult point I know I we can we need to discuss further and further about it But I would like to say to you that there are a lot of countries That have already implemented the system and it Doesn't go to concentration anywhere as you have said we have positive examples. Denmark United States Australia, New Zealand, well, we can have safeguards and if you present me legal advice proving That we cannot have safeguards, then I'll accept it But I think that there are safeguards our legal service And you always say that the legal service of the commission is the most forcing at the best I'm a little bit afraid of these lawyers. I have to say So they have done our best and they have given me clear advice. We can have safeguards So let's go and don't think that the worst will happen Of course, I cannot persuade you I I can understand but we have to work together a total denim department of foreign affairs Oh, do you get August or fall to road by our clear welcome to Dublin I have a very simple question. It's about the discards A few months ago. I watched a British television documentary A high-profile personality went out on a fishing trawler from Lois Doft They had to throw away. It was almost 50 percent of their catch back into the sea They estimated that would have fed 2000 people that was in one trawl I was glad to hear you say that that discard is Morally and environmentally unacceptable. I would say it's a criminal act and I'd say it's something that gives the European Union a very bad name Why my question is a simple one. Why Why In addressing that as you've said must be done gradually rather than at once Should I answer? Yes, please. I don't have a lot to say to this It's us to say that we cannot do it immediately We need a gradual approach because we have to solve technical problems In cooperation with the governments and our industry. Let me give you an example mixed fisheries Mix fisheries is a special problem. We have mixed fisheries. So we have to Go to our fishermen and say to him look you have to land everything you catch Okay, so we'll say okay. So what will happen with the fish I land Some of this fish can be sold easily. What about the undersized fish? What about the fish they cannot sell? We have to find solutions for all this That's why we need a gradual approach. So our idea is the following We'll give money to the producers organizations a lot of money We have money for that. We have earmarked the money to build storage mechanisms To find ways to get advantage of all the fish they land to solve the practical problems And then they can stop They can stop discarding So we are going to start to start from clean fisheries as we call them Because it's easier and it it can be Adopted immediately. So for some stocks for some fish stocks, we'll have it adopted After one year for some others, which is more complicated after two years and so on and so on The timeline has to be negotiated and discussed and agreed By ourselves the parliament the council the industry everybody But we need the end of the line. So we'll say that until 2015 for example We'll stop discarding anything that has to do with code in code fishers after five years We'll stop discard everything in general. So this is the way we're going to do We need to solve the technical problems and also we need To persuade the fisheries industry to cooperate with us. We cannot have Control everywhere. We cannot we need their cooperation if they are not persuaded that this is a good idea They are not going for it. Also, we have to organize this fish For poor program That means that if the fishermen cannot sell the if for example, we have a producer organization They gather the fish they catch and some of this fish cannot be sold We have to persuade of course the consumers to eat all kinds of fish And this is something that's going very well to the united kingdom where the consumption of magrims raised up 30 percent in one year But if something is left then what we are going to do with this So we organize a program to give this fish to the poor people because they also need to eat this good food So we have technical problems We're beginning to run short. I'm going to get take two questions at a time So if I could ask you and then then there and then there and then there Okay, but I'll take these two questions together first. Okay. I'm Peter wheel and see if fish is protection authority You're very welcome commissioner. Um, just two short questions I'm just wondering. Um, I'm aware of the court of auditors report where they did inspections in six countries and found and With very bleak findings very poor findings of the controls I'm just wondering what features you feel in the revised common fisheries policy will lead to a better a more level playing field Um, and secondly we've got to regionalization or decentralization And you talk about a boat leaving hoax that might have a particular mesh size Within Ireland we're in a unique position where we have french, spanish, uk vessels We have a lot of non-artic vessels that the seafish protection authority have to control and in regards to a level playing field They can't all be using different mesh sizes out there So we would have to sit with our uk or spanish and our french counterparts and agree the mesh size The problem with that is when they leave to fish their prawns in the iris sea We don't have any legislation. It'll be a regional agreement So if somebody breaches that we can't use irish law to enforce that control and we'll have no european legislation So how do we enforce control in that circumstance? Thank you. Uh, the gentleman here. Yeah apart from Larkano, canada from the irish fish producers organization commissioner. You're very well We'll be seeing you later on at a more intimate meeting of course In relation to your your proposals on transferable concessions you talk about essentially the maintenance of Basically the limitation of this nationally We It's not that we have an We would have an objection in principle We have but we have large practical Issues with your proposal in so far as In so far as of the analysis we have done of the treaties And the experience that we have seen the from Issues such as for example the fact or tain case in the uk which is very drenching That there was a very strong danger that Countries which have maybe a shortage of quota and larger fleets than ours which have greater access to capital We we simply Can't see at present, but obviously We would hope to see them developed in your proposal A system whereby that The transfers could be limited nationally that any spanish or french or uk or Danish citizen can come in here Establish themselves as a resident of here and i see no mechanism There may well be mechanisms, but i don't see them the same applies to the establishment of limited companies in this country so that whereas you could have nominal National transfers under your system what the net effectiveness would be international and that we would actually We run the risk especially as as you mentioned with the pressures we're under of being spectators of a fishing industry Rather than participants in it and that is that's a genuine worry that we do have No, no, sorry. I'll let us commissioner to answer those two and then we come back to that right About the level playing field issue. This is very very difficult. I have to admit it. I can understand the concerns. I'm trying I cannot say that I have the Best solutions for everybody, but i'm trying and i'm here to hear from you If we have any proposals because we really need a level playing field if we want to Go for control and enforcement. I agree with you. So Level playing field between the vessels european vessels and other countries vessels Other countries outside european union. This is your first problem Referring to this i can say that the only way To control the situation here is to have a very good look at our imports What we import is this fished sustainably Is it fished with the rules we have agreed with third countries? Is it fished in a good way? So we have common rules everywhere If we do this, I don't want to go further in this issue because this is a sensitive issue But we can understand perhaps that if we do this We can really really give advantage to our fishing I have this experience from the Mediterranean where where a lot of other nations come and fish So if we import only what is fished in a sustainable way, this will be the solution About the level playing field between our member states. This is another issue And I think that this is your main concern and also your concern So what can I do for this and what guarantees can I give you that it will be a level playing field between our Member states I can say to you very openly that Last year We had some very very Heavy sanctions against Spanish fleet And they informed me that this is the first time We have gone the commission has gone this way and this will be the rule Every member state is going to be treated in An equal and fair way So they have come they have Overfished mackerel. They have overfished also what else? heck There will be a great deduction of their quotas and it has been already and they have implemented this So I think that of course Implementation of the rules control and enforcement is a technical issue, but also it's an issue of political willing If they take the message that everybody here have to respect the rules, it will be the case So they have to pay a lot and I have we have gone for strong deductions of their quotas So I hope that this will be the case for now on but So what we have to do is to have this regionalization procedure at the sea basin approach This is the best way In advisory councils all of them are there. So we have to Go there and try to find an agreement So if at the regional level at the sea basin level, there is an agreement and I'm referring to your concerns about regionalization now Then we the commission we will be obliged to accept it And this is something new For example Baltic sea we have the Baltic states all around with Russia and other guys If they accept something I will be obliged to go for it So here I give them powers But this is the only Thing I can do to be compatible with the treaties because the treaty says that I have to decide So I'm transferring the power but in a smart way I'll keep the control afterwards to do something and this is the best we could find. This is what we have done So about the concessions Well, I can understand your concerns. We are here. My services are here. I would like to to see if you have any legal Arguments about this case. We have mentioned that all your experience And we are trying to find the best way to go for safeguards So what can I say if there is no way to be sure about the safeguards? We are going to discuss it again But I'm persuaded that we can get safe But if you come to us with legal arguments and show in a very concrete way that they will it will be European level Trade Then we can discuss it again. This is the only thing I know But I am I'm willing to hear But we don't go I want it to be at the European level. We really don't want it. We are not trying to fool you We really don't want Because we have to respect the relative stability. I have promised that I have to respect. It's a it's the rules We're running out of time and I have four hands up. So I'm afraid I'm going to close the door on the four And I would be all right if I took all four together. Yeah Um, you were first at the back you and you Yeah, I've uh, so I'd ask you to keep it quick too. Yeah, okay. Yeah Dennis of laherty and the Irish fisherman's organization Yeah, look and I have a very simple question And I look here to my left and I see this here reform of the common fishery policy Yeah And I've been in fishing for many years But when he got involved the organization in the last couple of years and you said commissioners you were shocked Well, when I got involved, I'm absolutely shocked I just uh Last night. I just went through a few figures. It's an injustice. Can I a question please? Yeah, okay It was an injustice done in the 1970s regarding the sharehold In particularly of the whitefish sector For Ireland and I read through it very simply and look we've all these waters Waters and we have this little bit of coda You know in particular take some of our valuable stocks like monkfish 7% commissioner 7% of the coda of the tac the tac is approximately 32 000 tons In area seven, which is primarily Irish waters. Okay, England and and France also bothers it, right? And we have we have 2000 tons which equates to 8% we take another fish like hake the same 7% we take another fish Like I have four species here written down here question coming Okay When is the real reform going to come and when is that going to change because that is the fundamental problem of the Irish industry We can think around little things regarding how Stop this card, but we don't have the coda We don't have the sharehold and that must change And that's what Irish fishmen want to see Of course, you want sustainability Thank you very much. Thank you Dan at the back. You know the second gentleman. Yeah I'm taking you in order of Presentation, please. Thanks very much. Thomas Pringle. I'm a member of the parliament representing all southwest Just and just two quick points or questions. First one is that That I welcome the fact that the commissioner said that the Irish fish stocks will become iron Irish resource from now That's that's certainly a change within the European Union But given that we only that other countries control 83 percent of our stocks How is that going to be reversed if the if the union now recognizes that their stocks are a national resource for us And the other question is on the international tradeable quotas Obviously the EU looks on a very long time scale And the introduction of transferable quotas now is the thin end of the wedge And in 10 years time after the first after we get through the first or second review of this new policy We will see the complete liberalization of the the fish Quota system and the decimation and wipeout of the Irish fishing industry And I think those are the failures of the common fishes policy and I think The the commissioner has outlined her proposals to the commission and that's the basis for the final agreement So all we're left with now is to tinker around at the edges and I think that that's going to be for the detriment of of Ireland At this lady here and then I Thank you. Uh, chivalry Negan from bird watch Ireland. We're also a member of the ocean 2012 coalition. I believe you know um, I have two specific questions if I may um firstly to do with um transferable concessions, um This appears to be the the silver bullet. Um, and uh, what I wanted to ask was what your feeling was on having a more a principle and incorporated in your proposal about socially and environmentally acceptable fishing Um and access to resources on that basis And that would maybe apply to a small small boat sizes as well as large or be across the board type of criteria As opposed to depending on a silver bullet type approach, which seems to be quite a specific measure and would be mandatory Uh, secondly, then I was wondering what your um, what your message to the minister was Certainly a council he agrees with the broad objectives and many of the principles in the proposal But when it comes to specifics and time scales and when things might happen Um, he's kind of saying well, maybe maybe not now. Maybe we're not ready yet What's your message given the urgency that you've already presented to us? What's your message to him? And finally if I may very quickly And Are we welcome the fact that there's more specific wording about paying heed to scientific advice? Um, this is the crux of the issue of course because when it comes to December council meetings What ministers decide to do by way of quota? Is very important, but also scientific advice when it comes to reaching sustainability type targets The wording is there, but what specific measures do you see going into place to make sure that scientific advice is actually listened to In these two important components Thank you very much. I just the last question just that gentleman corner in glasses. Thank you. Thank you Pat kill a member of the institute Um, my question really follows on what Peter wheelins question over here and gentlemen here beside me The facts are that 80 percent of the fish Around Ireland is caught is caught by other member states and there's probably At any one time six member states catching those fish And apart from the technical measures The reality is the quotas of those members are managed are managed separately by the individual member states In france and uk and elsewhere So i'm not i haven't heard from the commissioner yet what proposals she's going to bring forward To ensure In the enforcement of rules and regulations Are you going to transfer powers to the regional advisory councils or otherwise? I haven't heard how you're going to do it and I have to say that The slowness on part of the commission in responding to the problem on the macro stock vis-a-vis Where Iceland and ferros have allocated themselves autonomously huge quotas Over the past two years You know, it does not give me great great heart because I see yet that there has been no effect of action taken by the commission Against ferros in Iceland to ensure that they cannot that they will not continue to go on allocating themselves and fishing Hundreds of thousands of tons of a stock that will very soon be endangered. Thank you Okay, let's try to I can understand a lot of arguments because it's not some Real arguments very Very serious political arguments, but I would like to be very honest and say to you that These arguments are coming to an issue. Which is beyond my competences. Let me put it very openly I have to implement the treaties I'm here. I'm a commissioner for fisheries. I have to implement the treaties the treaties say in a very clear way That the fish stocks are EU stocks. We don't have irish stocks. We don't have spanish stocks. We don't have Whatever stocks So I cannot accept this logical because I cannot work with it I can understand what you are saying. I have to be clear But being in the european union means that we have accepted that there are no irish stocks This is a problem. I cannot solve It's beyond me. It's a political problem high level political problem You have to manage it But being in the european union it means that we have signed the treaties and we have accepted that there is no irish stocks, please understand it I can understand what you are saying about irises. I can and also I can be greek and say the same for my country, but here as a commissioner I cannot Can answer to these questions. Really. I cannot. I have EU stocks I would like for me a spanish vessel an irish vessel a french vessel is the same. I have to do so I have to be To accept everything. So what I really am here to do is to see if we have any If the rules are Implemented in a good way and fair way between the member states and that's why I was referring to what we have done referring to overfishing Of a spanish vessel referring to mackerel and it was the first time I have to apologize Because this didn't happen before I have to apologize, but I really mean that From now on it will be an equal treatment of everybody, but the other issue I cannot solve So I cannot understand your arguments about 80 percent of irish stocks fished by others There is no such a case for me. I have EU stocks And I would like to be fished them to be fished by EU fishermen or all the same. So this is Something with a concession You have to accept Otherwise, there is no european union being in european union give you gives you other possibilities You can export in another way, but this is something you have to decide. I cannot solve this problem Let me be honest. I don't want to fool you. Okay, so Um about What is done here what we have to work together to find the way out is to work at a regional basis So this is something I can accept we have to work more In order to find out solutions and try to be sure that the control and the limitation and Enforcement issues are solved Let's try to work together and find ways to go for it and have a level playing field between all european fishermen About the concessions I can attend the discussion Small scale fisheries can be accepted This is absolutely clear But if you have any other suggestions about it and try to find more safeguards more Stronger We we are going to to ask we are going to ask you and we are going to decide So about the ministers and if they say we are not ready to go for sustainability or whatever I have to cooperate with ministers Um, I the council has to decide I have to be there. I have to give explanations I have to give good proposals, but they are going to decide at the end So I am at their disposal to do my best in order to persuade them that we really need Need sustainability, but it's also their responsibility So they are going to take decisions and so Some people have to persuade them If you really believe that we have to go for avoiding discards or you have also to persuade them About what is going to be in the future referring to the last experience About this issue and the war with Icelanders and Faroese referring to the Michael stock Let me be clear about it. I cannot accept that the commission Was slow or the commission does not react. This is absolutely. This is not true We have done our best Let me explain As since as this problem came out We came with very strict proposals to the council. I have discussed this in the council every council Three or four discussions I have tried to do our best and now I have some good news Really good news I'm preparing a new instrument To block all the imports from Iceland and faroese if they are not going to be sustainable We didn't have such an instrument And I have worked in the commission and we have gone up and we are we are ready now It it was a miracle to have a new legal instrument just in some months So the instrument is ready now. It's inter service consultation. I hope that until the end of the year We will be at a very good position to block the imports of faroese and Icelanders We didn't have the instrument to do so till now. What we could do is to block only The import of fresh fish, but they don't care about fresh fish because they export to us fish meal Fish oil and all the other products So now we have worked and in two months we have prepared the system and so I cannot accept this The others I can accept the arguments against the commission, but on this issue. I think that we have done our best Really Our best the commission we have done our best. Of course the ministers they have to decide if they are going for it This is it. So can I have the last word? Okay, I would like to say to you that My team is here. Maya Kishner is here the deputy head of my cabinet and Ernesto Penyes, who is the general director and the director yes of this exercise and responsible for our reform so the These people are at your disposal and please don't hesitate to come but I what I would like to make to clarify is what we can discuss to be productive I can understand your concerns. There are issues on which I cannot move But if you can give me more proposals about decentralization I'm going to accept if you give me more proposals about safeguards referring To concessions. I'm going to accept. So please don't hesitate to come forward And of course the ministers and the council and the parliament they are going to decide Thank you No, no, I'm sorry the commissioner has to go and I understand this is going to be a long No, no, there is no change referring to your chair. No, sorry. I'm sorry. This is no, this is this I think this is a bit of an abuse position. Wait a minute Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I can understand but please please please try to understand me I have given you very very clear views on this The relative stability has to be respected absolutely So we are not going to change this Please who tells can I say?