 Hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always as he has every day every Wednesday for the past six years is my co-host Tyler How you doing buddy? Good to have you back on good to be here. Good to be here as always Never missed a day Joining us for the first time Our first time he's been a guest on the show Tom Lyons you may not have heard of him, but he's a little-known player out of Kentucky. He's done pretty well He's almost won several adepticons. So he's a great competitive player, but he keeps losing it in the clutch What's up Tom? I I'm so honored to be on this show I've you know, I've always wanted to guest on the show and it's just something that like I feel like man my my Warhammer age of Sigma our career has been complete because of this experience now So thank you all for the opportunity to be here. Hey, absolutely when I thought what are we gonna do with 3.0? There was nobody better Than I wanted to have than you Tom so there you go Okay So today guess what we're throwing out the normal format. It's gone the normal format is gone What's your normal format? Oh Well, you see normally I prepare a whole bunch of news stuff and then some jackhole shows up and like reads it three seconds Yeah, yeah, I can confirm that I I had stopped caring basically on my third show wasn't prepared at all Almost completely spaced on the events list. So yeah, it's yeah, it's weird. It goes away quick I Did he rate so yes There's only we'll just cover a couple very quick news items just to quickly get these out of the way Which is one all the core rules we're going to talk about are downloadable free Okay, so which kudos to GW. Thank you a plus keep it up That's what one of the things seriously. It's one of the things that makes this game great I really do truly love that they still make the AOS rules free the core rules free It's with a with a game in a business model like they have lower the barrier of entry on the rules get everybody out Get the rules in everybody's hands so they can play awesome thumbs up appreciated. Okay, so you can download that I'll throw the link down below if you want to download them. You can Second news item just very quickly. This is on a personal note unrelated if you were looking for the book for rain and hell If you were wanting to purchase the actual book and not just the PDF The new book is now back in stock. That's linked down below as well So you can check that out. I apologize that it was unavailable and book format for a little while But guess what it's back now so you too can go to hell. All right With those quick news items out of the way We're just gonna get straight into it. Okay, we're going we're driving straight ahead ages sigma 3.0 We're gonna talk a lot about the changes. What's there? What's not there? We're gonna get into All the nuances and the implications that's the goal readers are not you're gonna wrote read you the book We're gonna talk about what we see as important things. We're gonna try to cover every single change But also talk about what we see as the winners and losers out of that and we're gonna try to do it all In a relatively reasonable amount of time so get ready for that. Won't that be a fun challenge? But before we get into the specifics, I do want to start at a high level Tom since you're the guest you can go first which is Overall, well, how do you feel about? About 3.0 you excited you think this overall is good like, you know, you understand 40,000 with you where you live in I Think that it's I think that it's good. I think that it's gonna be bumpy in the first Month or two Until we get the clarifications around some of the like old worst rules because we're adopting in Rules that have been written for prior things Yeah, and so I think the biggest hangout that we're gonna have is just making sure everything gets updated in a way that is Clear yeah, but until then like other than that like I love the core system I think that there's gonna be my biggest concern like so let me just say I love it I love a lot of what's happened here. Yeah, my biggest concern is the mental Load that's gonna come on for a lot of armies because of all the decision points that are being made every turn Yeah, and so getting through five rounds of a game It's gonna be tough because people are doing things both people are doing things in almost every face. Yeah totally fair Tyler, where's your worry where you live in right now? Yeah Looks like it's the best addition so far I mean not to get into the memes, but you know, they they should be proud of what they've done It was clearly a tremendous amount of work by a tremendous number of people it's really good on the whole and There's absolutely as Tom said there's gonna be some bumps. There's some issues not everything is watertight. There's potentially standout Challenges depending we'll we'll see we need to really see everything to get a sense of unleash hell Obviously is one that's been on the minds of a lot of us. Yeah, how that's going to how that's gonna play out I got a little bit of a initial experience with it yesterday I wish I can talk about later, but yeah I mean, I think they should be really proud and we should all generally be really happy with where we are right now Yeah, I would say I'm in the 90% I really love this addition and think they did a great job and 10% there are some things that are deeply concerning to me And and we'll see exactly where we end up I will say and You know, we'll talk about it later I do think you're going to need a game aid at your side to do this Fortunately, I have prepared such a document which I will share with everybody Later on to help you move through your decisions quickly. I do think that this is effectively a third of the picture Okay, the core rules are a third The next third is the GHB and the associated points Yeah, all of that nonsense, which I expect will probably have this weekend because it's going to go Pre-order that would mean I assume the NDA left people who get that gets that book Like I assume we'll get man who reads book reading that book and then we'll all be staring at fuzzy PDFs or images sorry of of the of The points pages trying to interpret what's going on And then the other third is I assume like like a day one PDF FAQ launch Like there's gonna be a day one PDF FAQ something that goes through and updates existing books scrolls text stuff right to Make it compliant with the the current rules So we have to always keep that in mind that we're only looking at a third of the puzzle here, right? Yeah, yeah, and and you know, so if there are things we're concerned about that's fine, right? We can mark them as a concern Okay, but we don't say the sky is falling yet because let's give an easy example unleash help Yep, okay. I agree with you. I think it's a highly concerning thing. We'll get there. We're gonna talk about it. Don't worry but Let's imagine this isn't gonna happen But let's just imagine a scenario where the price on every unit that could reasonably get to a large number of shots Sure everything from bow snakes to sentinels to iron drakes. Okay, all of the things you're really scared about charging with unleash hell Let's imagine their price all went up 50% Yep, okay. All of a sudden I'd be like never mind. I'm not concerned anymore Because suddenly the investment into shooting that you would have to make would be so high Yeah, and so Contourable by the smallest chat unit getting into those things that it would suddenly be like not a problem now Yeah, I hear that but then it raises questions for factions like Okay, yeah, I that's what I'm saying That's not going to happen. My point was simply to use a like Extreme example to point out that you can't really judge the impact until we do see that second and third Absolutely, we can flag concerns and say if this doesn't get fixed in some way It will be a problem. That's all or exciting depending on what army you're playing also true my friend also true That's right. Okay. I mean, I'm already thinking about playing Siege with pink horrors and putting them back on the table I'm sixes. Oh, we're gonna talk about that. Don't worry. All right. Yeah So here we go. Let's get into it. All right. So I got a time stamp all this. I apologize everybody So we begin with our summary. So here's my summary for everybody Still the same game Right. Ultimately, this is still the same game. Like we did not alter the fundamentals of the game Years no like we didn't suddenly add like a strength and toughness comparison like 40k for What you need to wound a chart or something, right? We didn't fundamentally change the the implications of the game phases didn't move around what you do in the phases Didn't really move around me some phases you have more to do in right but like the stuff You're used to doing before is the stuff you're gonna do again in the timing. You were gonna do it, right? But there are some very large changes to what I feel is like army construction and really how the game is gonna feel And I think you said it best Tom at the right the rip Which is there are going to be more decisions made in both players turns, right? You are now an active participant in both of your turn like even in your opponent's turn I'm sad about that. That was usually my time to go away out of the venue hole when Tom was doing his very discreet movement Maybe get some vape on maybe get a drink or a sandwich I could I had a lot of time when it was Tom's turn and sadly That's not gonna be and now you have to stay for the whole thing torture torture But anyways, I saw I've dedicated or I've split the changes is what I see big changes Obviously, yes, we're gonna deep dive into all these War scroll battalions gone. They're narrative only we can finally put that That horse to rest it's been talking about it for weeks of a telling you it's happening. Everybody's been like, but maybe They're gone. They're out of match play Yeah, or battalions new command abilities the pile in rules, which I think is so big we'll get there so big Coherency CP generation usage reinforcement grand strategies and battle tactics objective control enhancements Those are my big changes my smaller changes are wizard and priest changes invocations Formalized into a thing run in retreat changes ten wound limit on everything strike first strike last clarification terrain and objective control again Because it's actually that splits into a couple categories some which are small some which are big Anyways, what do you think about my list anything you'd move around there? Tom I'm thinking sure All right Yeah, it seems pretty good. I mean this to me really signifies We're obviously Looking at a much bigger change Netwise than we have from 2.1 point out of 2.0. I mean you mentioned it's still the same game But yeah, certainly felt it in the initial test last night There's yeah, we're really going to wait until we see everything to get a sense on where we are in the ecosystem the landscape Yeah, there's so much that's going on here. Yeah Yeah, I Think that the only thing that I would Suggest is I think that the wizard priest changes are going to be a lot bigger than what you've acknowledged here All right, I think that the fact like did like Did you pay attention to the changes to arcane bolt for example? Oh, I paid attention to changes to everything Tom If you knew the amount of time I spent Every small change this is Ungodly add number hours of prep for the show. I hope I got everything. I really tried because I mean what I would say is this The first thing that really caught my attention with those changes and it seems small, but it's big is That did you notice or ranges on all of the default wizard spells? Right, they're all 12 inches. Okay, one of them. Yeah and It like that combined with like the unbinding rules Or the ability that you can dismiss invitations at 45 inches 48 or 48. Sorry Sure, but by the table horizontally, yes, right right for a smaller table Which I want to note. I don't see anything about a smaller table on here I didn't because it was just we've been talking about it forever, but yeah, it's there I actually like I don't I think in the end it's a wash I think I would put it in the smaller changes my honest answer Really? Yeah. Oh Because of the way that some armies play I think it's gonna be a big change like KO will really feel the smaller table Sure. Yeah, I to me. It's more of like it depends on how they said here's why I say I say that The board says being smaller might be it might be a smaller change because it also depends on how Much how the starting zones look right in the three sample scenarios. They got it's all 18 inch across bigger deployment Zones like that kind of thing if what we get out of the GHB looks very different if they have you know Bigger if they maintain 24 inches between have smaller deployment zones or or like split corners a lot I don't like that then things become very different because it becomes a lot harder to grab board control, right? So again, that's why I kind of didn't even know where to put it because it could end up being big It could end up being almost nothing That's fair, that's right So one thing that Tom mentioned and remind me we'll get into it later is the fact that as Thomas pointed out on Twitter today that you can Stack saves, but there's an overall cap in terms of the overall modifier I think there's a real chance that that Generally could mean the value of mortal wounds has gone up even further already obviously really high value And that in certain situations the value of rent has gone down particularly when we're dealing with hero monsters That are say starting out at three up save because you're now looking at their finest hour mystic shields All out defense. We've got a five-up ward now with the artifact arm of destiny across the entire landscape We've got maybe a little more healing arguably now in the game It's looking like and who the hell knows what else we're gonna be looking at So, you know, if you're having these hero monsters in particular that You know can cancel out minus two rents in particular and still be looking at say a two up save I I think that could be really significant might cut down on some of the rent shooting that I'm at least worried about On the contrary does that mean rents more important because Everybody's just running around on a one up One better than ever there ever is yeah, right you have to have your own rent to punch through those defenses Yeah, absolutely. Yeah in general. Yeah, I'm thinking more about like when you have say a cabbage and it is I mean, we'll see what it looks like with a new book But it's incredibly destructive and if you don't have a way to get it off the table quickly You know that could have a huge impact on games more so than previously Kind of thinking about those kind of pieces those central lunchpin pieces. Yeah Somebody had asked in the comments. Isn't there a plus one cap? There's a there's a there's a maximum bonus of plus one, but there's no maximum minus and you and you That plus one is on the total not on the comparative And so let's say you have like a plus four bonus to save and you're at minus three rent You're only now at plus one say right, right, but so that Stacking bonuses can still help negate rent. Yeah, so and we'll get there. Don't worry We're gonna dive into each of these in detail in gory Awful ugly detail if you want the deets You came to the right place Okay All right, so with that being said gentlemen, let's get into the meat of this thing Let's start with our core rules and command points because boy. Oh boy. Are there some fun items here? core rules and CP okay 20 minutes in We're doing good. This is better than what even an hour and 20 had we done the other segments, right? All right, so in my mind the core rules. These are some of the biggest changes that will impact the way the game plays So I've got a lot of it on screen here I'm not gonna read you what's on my screen beat for beat, but we're gonna talk about some of this stuff, right? So the coherency change unit coherency big change Change Right, we talked about this last time two weeks ago. I guess one week ago I don't know when we did the coherency presentation was it was it last week last week I know yeah, it feels like two weeks. I don't know. I don't know. I don't want to show It feels like it was a But we did a whole presentation on coherency, so I'm not gonna deep dive into that except to say it should have been either six models You could have or ten models that that's what should have kept the coherency. They made the wrong choice I'm hoping for worse for all updates that takes all the 40 and 50 millimeter infantry With one inch reaches and updates them to two inch reach. So there we go Um Yeah, I I'm still a holdout. I mean for what it's worth still a hold on on that I mean, I'm like number one. I'm guessing One thing they were probably thinking about is these not quote-unquote death star not really death star But you know, you're very your six bearing guard your six pigs Although, I guess technically your six bearing guard nights and empty throne. You could still do that since it's a hero But yeah, it would still make the coherency thing. So yeah, I Don't know. I'm still holding out on whether it should have been two to six But it it does seem like there's a pretty good case for two to six. Yeah, it just feels like it would have been correct There's so many three units in this game that even with only four reinforcement points, which we'll get to later You would still go. Yeah, I'll spend one of those four points to take it up to six, right? Right. Yes, I would like to do that. That would be fun You know In the article today around FEC, they showed you you did a six Crip players and I was like, yeah, that's why that's how I run him, too But that's very annoying in this world. Yeah So at any rate, it was instantly obviously immediately last night So I was playing at 1.3 K just worked out. That's what we played and it was 15 flamers 9 6 2 by 10 brems But basically, you know the fake master change casters that are to turn on all those flamers So you had two little screens. It worked out that pigs rolled like Seven on their charge so they couldn't wrap around and maintain coherency, right? So they had yeah, so I re-rolled it with a triumph got a four so they had to go into the brand So like right there immediately. Yeah, I mean it that was just a first impression But I could see a lot of instances where you like the thought is well, maybe I could just have one pig die And I'll be fine. Well, if it doesn't die And then you go in when you got a charge you don't get where you need to go Or you go and you kill a stupid screen and then your entire unit dies like what happened last night It's like I probably should have three pigs Side 915 says I'm surprised. There's no 164 on that list. Oh, don't worry side 915. There is a whole slide Dedicated to 1.6.4 That's why it's not on this slide Okay, so just some fun just some fun clarifications that I think are important One endless spell or invocation per wizard or priest So you can't just take one wizard and take multiple endless spells Not something that most armies generally break anyways, but good to be aware of 165 a unit may never fight or shoot more than twice in a phase ever That's just a hard cap a hard rule that can't be violated Fantastic That's great. I also love the numbers by the way. Thank you on the numbers. Yep a plus More of that. I love that then you get to the match play section and they were just like nah Like they just left the idea behind like we couldn't use the match We couldn't use m 1.0 and start over or something And then narrative could have been np. You know, I don't know whatever I'm just for the 165 they don't have a qualification in there that says this is an exception that specific rules override Uh, like the language that makes it in violet. Is that what you're asking? Right. I don't think they have that language in there So if you have an ability that lets you activate or shoot or fight multiple times That can be violated Uh It does have the language tom this is an exception to the principle that the effects of abilities take precedents over the core rules So what tom is referencing there is that in some In some language in here, they have that additional thing. I just said which basically says this is in violet We the specific rules cannot break this and that's one of them Good good good. So there you go Yeah 3.1 was really just a nice clarification that units start in in your starting army off board or reserve Whereas units you summon during the battle that aren't in your list are called summoned units They basically key worded those things out they game termed them out And said at the start of the fourth bout around units in reserve are destroyed So that's just now a rule. They don't have to write that into every scroll perfectly fine I liked the the game termification of these two things. It's a change, but it's a welcome change It's really just smoothing things out. Most stuff already worked this way. Most of us already conceived it this way fine Uh four dot one a big misconception going around And I want to we're gonna put this to bed right now. So hey, hey, hey, hey Pay attention. This is important. Okay In the core rules you roll off for determining priority every turn including the first And drops only matter if you tie however In the matched play conquest of contest of generals, whatever the words are Battlepack, which is what we're all probably playing at a tournament or when you're playing a standard 2k game or something Drops determine the priority round one as they always have if you don't believe me It's under stealing the initiative page 339 So There we go I've seen a lot of confusion over this over the past couple days because The free thing they released didn't have the matched play addendums in it. I don't think so But it's there. Yep. I promise you it's there Okay Just so we're all understand. All right Okay, so, uh Can we talk about the biggest change in this page guys? Can we talk about this for a minute? All right, they tripped at the starting gate here with this book They didn't even get past the first page of the rules and I saw that it went. Oh no, correct. All right guys I love you. This edition's written so well. It's so clean. Okay. It really is like I'm amazed by how clean this is But We got a little problem Got a little problem 1.0 a faction but it's just like like literally 1.0. This is the first thing Okay A faction they introduced this game term called a faction And then they don't actually then define that game term directly Okay Now if you look at 1.4, it says your army consists of factions If you look at 25 point. Oh Jesus. I don't remember 25.3. I think Sorry, I'm gonna go there real quick 25.1 There is a header called faction Which is just an explanation of the visualizations And it says pitched battle profiles are organized into tables each of which contains the pitched battle profiles for one faction See 1.1 If you go back to 1.1 There is no definition in 1.1 of what a faction is It doesn't ever say like what is the exact thing that makes you part of a faction other than You own a battle tome and apparently a list on a page Where it says like your name at the top and then a list beneath it And under matched play rules all units. This is where the thing this is where the kit comes in everybody get ready Okay In matched play all units must be from one faction What that would mean is that as of right now Everything in your army has to come from a single book Well, not only that factions aren't defined by keywords anymore. Correct. That's the change So what that says is archion chaos warriors chaos knights You want to be in a sladash's inch? Nurgle or corn army too bad. You're not in that faction get out of here You don't fit anymore Right, right. Skaven stuff in a normal army like Skaven pestle and stuff. Yeah Yeah The battle tome Where does it say one? I know it says it but where does it say one faction? Uh in matched play rules. It's in the match play rules. Okay. Okay All all units must be from one faction and factions have battle tomes And so it raises all kinds of questions because by default then Everything in broken realms is illegal Well Not necessarily by 25 one Okay, because 25.1 Then says faction is also this thing that occurs at the top of a pitched battle profile And in broken realms they reprint the pitched battle profiles to still say that name at the top So you could you can but it's not in the whole faction reprinted Or is it just like Like a unit or a couple units No, but they could claim that that's an addendum to the battle tome because it has the faction label at the top Okay, like 25.1 says this thing it points at is a faction The problem is chaos knights archion. He doesn't show up on any list or table That says slinish Right, right at the time or in any but and that also means there's no grand alliance order. Correct. They're well. Yeah grand alliances are gone Yes, grand alliance armies are dead. Yes, that's gone correct So and again So cragnos and that kind of stuff could still be used in match play because you can because by the exception created on 25 One where it suddenly jacks in this pitched battle profile item And says this thing Is now also part of your faction, right? It's it's effectively 25.1 is creating an exception. It's effectively jacking them into your battle tone Well, not only that like what about What about everything that adds keywords? To your fat like because the wording isn't this way and like any of the city of sigmar stuff Well, the city of sigmar stuff they say also these are part of your faction. They occur in your battle tone So they would be fine Right, like because city of sigmar says specifically you may include this stuff There's you can look through the whole slinish tone nothing in the slinish tone says you can include casuers That was those were jacked in by the keyword Right, right So now, okay now that I've raised this huge controversy All right Let me just say I highly expect this to be FAQ'd sure and in the chp to be fixed I am just pointing out that I have no idea why they used this text here and didn't just use a cleaner version of this It's just madness to me I've finally found it just for anybody who's interested It's yeah, I think the first page of match play contest of generals battle pack under faction at the bottom Yeah, all of the units in your army must be from a single faction Now, I thought I remember seeing somewhere where they referenced grand alliances. Do you guys remember seeing that? Anywhere yeah, it's in the rules where they say It's in the army construction where they say it can be drawn from multiple factions You have to be in one grand alliance, but again, that's non match play rules. Sure. Okay. Gotcha. Okay Yep, now again, I expect this to be fixed I am not trying to say this is a problem right now or it will be going forward I fully expect this to be corrected whenever we get Whatever the ghp is that probably will have the new faction Explanation and break out the actual factions and points and all that Fine I just want to complain for a moment that I really don't like that in the 1.0 in literally the first thing They introduced a new term that is critical to the entire conception of the game And then didn't bother to define it in a coherent way That isn't like one to 1.1 to 1.4 to 25 one back to one one in a circular fashion And it's still never defined right now again Obviously they're going to allow you to make armies Sure like sure. Okay. We all know it's gonna get fixed cool beans So my complaint here is We just we we tripped that we tripped out of the gate. They fired the starting pistol You're like, oh now we caught up right they came back strong. Yeah came back strong But it was a little trip out of the gate Okay, it's pretty funny. I'm not gonna Fun stuff Uh, all right, so everybody good with this. I think we can move on Okay now one six four here we go Let's talk about triggered effects. Okay Multiple triggered effects cannot happen from the same trigger the controlling player chooses which to apply The easy examples for this would be on a hit of six an unmodified roll of six You get both two hits and you get a mortal wound lots of times where these kinds of things can overlap right only one can apply So now the question becomes and when you when you think about it in that example, that's super clean super tight You know occurs in multiple places right where it's like six two six generates a double tap an explosion And six generates a mortal wound great. You have to pick which one you want to apply. You're the player great good stuff Yeah, easy peasy The challenge here comes in when you start then putting together stuff like the wither stave or archaeon or things like that that your opponent is doing Right. So your opponent says well, I've got archaeon and the eye of edge here and says you have to reroll Sixes to hit me. Okay And my rule says six is to hit explode And so I'm going to go ahead and choose for my rule to apply and not yours Okay, so I don't have to reroll any sixes. I can ignore the eye of edge here All right. I don't think that is actually correct okay My argument is that based on one five five, this is going to get super techie for a minute guys. I apologize Okay, and and let me just state at the onset. This will need to be an FAQ Yes. Yes. Yeah, GW has to answer this. Yeah Yeah Okay One five five says modifiers are applied after rerolls Rules that refer to an unmodified roll are referring to dice after rerolls have been made But before modifiers are applied What that would then generate is the five step sequence below You roll the dice and generate some number That's the trigger For the eye of edge here in or the wither stave or whatever right the dice have been rolled But we have not yet arrived at an unmodified roll the dice can have three states Roll unmodified roll modified roll Okay so The trigger you can't but there the reason this they both still apply is because they're separate triggers I roll the dice whatever sixes I have I have not yet generated an unmodified roll Because I haven't reached that state of play yet because we have not gone through rerolls yet So the eye of edge here and triggers off the roll like specifically archon's rule says on a hit roll of a six He does not say unmodified Some I think do and that will be problematic, but right so those would need to be corrected to conflate with this, right? Yep Okay, so then I would reroll all the dice fine all the sixes Now I've arrived at an unmodified roll because I've passed all necessary rerolls Now all of my remaining sixes Then explode As per normal by the way, basically this is the way we always played this Right, right like all I'm saying is that the rule works the same way you think it does Yeah, like as it always has as it always has Like we always played like this if you were playing slanesh as I have many times and fought archon as I have many times This is the crappy world you lived in Right. All I'm saying is that one six four doesn't get you out of this Okay, it's just status quo game works the same So don't read one six four Like it suddenly means you get to ignore your enemy penalties, right? Right, right Okay Now I'm not saying there aren't some that are going to still be problematic in this interpretation because if something does Refer to an unmodified roll of six then gets re-rolled that can't happen anymore Because you can't arrive in an un you can't reroll an unmodified roll. That's impossible Unmodified is after rerolls. So those will need like worst role changes or FAQ updates and stuff like that I can't think of I'm trying to senior trying to think of anything that has to unmodified Are you thinking of anything specific tom or just kind of there's I'm pretty sure there are some stuff in Nerval I'd have to look at the book. Okay, that's the age of the book itself. Sure. Yeah Yeah, okay Yeah, and I can and I can do a deep dive at some point and in far, you know and And dig up all of these occurrences because sure there Yeah, but the point is I can I would assume that basically what this means just so like I'm really putting this out there to say Don't worry. Like I had to go through this complicated explanation To actually arrive at the conclusion It's fine Right like it will play the way you've always played Yeah In that you will roll your dice You will reroll your dice if something's forcing you to reroll and then once you're done rerolling You will then hit any unmodified triggers. Right. So basically the way we've done So to be clear All of the on a six You know force your enemy to reroll so with or stave arch on stuff like that are happening at stage two of this process Right here, right moving from stage one to stage two but like the uh Exploding six is on a hit Exploding six is on a hit or the mortal wounds from Perth guard berserk and all that are basically happening on stage three After unmod the unmodified roll has been happened. And so at any one of these stages You can't have the same thing happening Hmm Okay, but you can't have multiple things happening and so Uh, you can't be triggering in effect and be forcing reroll Because they're not happening at the same stage of the sequence Yeah Okay, no, I know this stuff is techie and scary to people. Okay I my answer is there isn't a lot of situations where these kinds of clashes will come up Most of the time what's going to happen is one six four will simply mean you can't trigger multiple benefits off of the same roll Yes, yep, that's the the vast modal outcome of this and most times you experience it will just be like Oh, I had both exploding sixes and mortal wounds on sixes. I don't get to do both. I picked the one I want That is where you will encounter this rule the vast majority of the time Okay, so again, I know there's a lot of contention around this I expect there will be an FAQ my ultimate answer is I don't think it's a problem because of the sequencing In some very weird situations. You'll you'll it'll play like we've always played Okay, now I was trying to I was trying to figure out what you're saying, tom But I was too too much enjoying those first three words that came out of your mouth, which I've really missed I know we all enjoyed the two be clear as as kathy pointed out. Okay. Yes, so Uh, gg said at this point to make it a break a question for me Will be if I can can include std models in my he notes Army like I said, I fully expect that to be changed like it's too classic There's so much stuff that refers to mortals and things like that in all these books They're not gonna suddenly forget how chaos armies work, right? Like they'll they'll fix it. So I'm I'm not worried. Okay um The Let's talk about implications in armies though because this is going to be fun for the 164 So let's get rid of the techie. Let's get rid of that nonsense. Get that you get out of here Get out of here get out of here techie problems Let's talk about who's just actually impacted by this Uh, this example Okay, of like you triggering multiple benes like the standard wording of how we'd read this, right? Yeah, uh Gristlebore is a good example like the the um The big bite the big chompy chomp bite Right because he triggered both double. He triggered both explosions and six mortal wounds On his six to hit now, obviously you can only pick the six mortal wounds. He doesn't also get explosion explosions Right Uh, so that was one that I thought of um What other what other ones uh came up to your mind anything else? I don't know yet. I have to go back and look uh, did serif on have anything like this on skinks? Usually skinks skinks. Yeah, whatever whatever nonsense six triggers. Yes skinks are affected. Yep. They're docked it Because they could um, they could trigger mortal wounds and do their multi hit. Oh, yeah if they had the prayer Yeah, yeah, all right. Oh Uh Which prayer the the uh, the double double hit on sixes catechism of murder. Oh sure, right. Yep. Yep Right So yeah, there's some interesting implications to this now a good note Is that this does not for some reason have the inviolate clause on it? Hmm Okay So like then we're going to get into the situation of wait. So can I then do it because my scroll says I can um Yeah, we're going to need some explanation on that one one six four is going to be a real fun one a real fun one Got some good examples coming in here in the chat, right? Uh, uh, uh slanesh marked chaos chosen Oh, but that's not real. That's not real. That's not real side 915 chaos chosen aren't real. I've never seen him in a game I don't believe they exist Uh reliance said the vermin lord corruptor with sword. Yep. Oh gosh. Yeah, that's a great one. Yeah I hate that. Oh, yeah, that's so disgusting. Uh, I look he doesn't need the other trigger He can just keep the d3 mortal wounds. That's all he needs. Yeah That's all he needs, right? That's what he's got to do the dirty business So he's good five plus d3 mortals. He gets in there and does it That one's got the four up mortal wound spell roll a die per model What's that? Yeah, uh, yes. Yes. Yes, super plague. Yes, correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, he has the horde. He has the horde ender. Yes the half your horde is dead spell, right? Too many games of him teleporting into my face and yeah with with kairos as his friend to get that Oh Stonks on vermin lord, they're going up on all the vermin lords not just the corruptor. They're all Way way up by now before the price skyrockets. Let me tell you what vermin lords is stonks Okay So, yeah, I don't know what to make of bone slitters because everybody because like bone slitter specifically has a designer's note That says actually in this case do that Violate the normal thing. So I guess that just rides. So there we go All right, gentlemen, let's talk about command points. Shall we because here's a bit this is obviously a big change Uh, so barring the heroic action and army special abilities, which we'll get to heroic actions in a moment Players get three or four cp per round That's the general number So let's break down how we get there Okay 411 The player who takes the first turn Receives one command point the player who goes second in the round receives two command points These are awarded at the top of the battle round So when the priority decision is made And then turns are allocated by the person who has priority cp are immediately awarded Okay, so somebody has one somebody has two Yep, okay So at the start of the game you cannot start the game without command points We're all with that which is a great change by the way great change Mm-hmm. Okay Now then at the start of the hero phase the not your the hero phase If your general is on the battlefield you gain one cp You do not gain more cp for more generals. Stop it That's literally what I have written there Okay At the end of the battle round any cp that has not been used are lost So what that means is in the first turn So I'm I'm going first. I'm at one my opponent's at two my hero phase triggers Our generals are still alive now. We're at two and three We get to the bottom of one. Let's assume both of our generals are still alive We go to three and four In this in the player two's hero phase Okay, again, I was assuming nobody spends anything because I'm somehow magically right Yeah, that's not that's not true. But yeah, right and then bottom of the round happens We go to zero Yep, it does Okay, so we discussed there's a bit of a question although hopefully it's clear what the answer will be on What can count as a general on the battlefield? Because of course now we have quite a few examples of counts as generals ratty cane the gash, etc so let's say You have the melasai iron scale who was your declared general She is either dead or off the battlefield, but you have ratty cane alive slash on the battlefields Do you qualify for getting your plus one cp? In this case with your general on the battlefields Yeah, and your general is only one model You have to designate what that what your general is at the beginning it counts as a general but not your general and that's unsurpassed Yeah, I disagree. I think it's 6.0. It's clear that if any of your generals are alive you get the one cp And the reason I say that is because it says if you're general and later on in other places it says chosen general Right like it uses that terminology pretty distinctly in later places Which seems to be creating the space to say there's a difference between a chosen general and just a general And also a lot of the articles laws not general also talked about like it being an advantage that you had other counts as generals And pointing kind of to this Yeah, so, uh, it'll need clarification. Sure. It's the at the end of the day. Yeah Uh, yeah, so my answer is uh, I think that you know, there's This just means any of your general so people like veercose or invaders or Uh, yeah, you mentioned marathi kane or a laurel. I'm trying to think of who else You know counts as a general to me. It's just it's pretty obvious that they're all there guaranteeing you the extra cp as long as they're alive Mm-hmm Because I I don't know how they'd lever it apart. I mean it's interesting that in invaders you do have three chosen generals Yeah, because you actually do desert. You actually do make the choice of three generals as opposed to just accounts as Yeah, isn't there something funky going on with ravagers as well and slaves and darkness Uh, they can rotate around. Yeah, ravagers rotate it around so they can summon. Yes. Yeah Yeah, that's interesting Okay, and then the other big changes in 6.1 and this is really important Like it's going to seem not important, but this is actually super important So they clarified now that when you use a command point to issue a command ability One model issues an order And something receives an order by the way, you can issue an order to yourself Right, like you could be the issuing the order to yourself like let's go me like that's okay. That's all right. That's all right Right Absolutely But the point is the unit has to be valid to receive and the unit has to be valid to Order to issue. Sorry. Okay Uh Yes, hot spur pointed out a really hilarious thing about scragrod's command ability moves the bad moon The bad moon moves before priority is determined and command points are generated after priority is determined So technically right now scragrod's command ability cannot be used because there's it's impossible to actually own command points in that time period Where he moves it again, that's fine. One assumes that's a day one FAQ, right? That'll be in the pdf update for it I'm pretty sure they they cotton to that Because I've seen it mentioned several times. One hopes. Yeah. So no big deal Uh, all right, so So issue issue and receive and you there are things in this game that can shut off The ability to issue or receive Okay, and you will probably see more of that being explored in the design space of future rules My guess is you will see stuff that says like this unit cannot receive orders like a bebop. Let's put on them, right Okay So uh and the obvious important change here is now they've unified all of the command abilities in this book If you have different ranges in your own book, you still use those But to use a cp Like the unit champion can issue commands their unit heroes holy within 12 generals holy within 18 totems holy within 18 boob The age of totems is upon us as I have foreseen in 2017 or whatever when I wrote the original Schemes for nash con and I focused with a great card all about totems and everybody was like totem The glorious age of totems has come We will all be searching for all of our totems to bring them to the table Get ready nash get ready nash con players. You're gonna suffer For for events to feed to just to feed this ego I don't even I don't even know I I'm nothing. I'm gonna leave it there Like who are the big winners here for totems Who are the big winners here for totems uh the um Yeah, the calf worshiping Okay, that's working. Uh corn corn has another uh, it the bloods a crater Because they're regularly gonna have bloods a crater gain on foot He's a totem Yeah, he's not a winner. Um the I love that totems. I love that your avatar king can now issue commands though That makes isn't that amazing? He can issue commutability Functionally a hero That thing's amazing at Hagnar, incidentally. I play I wonder I I need to reread him. I wonder if he is can technically do that even if he's inert um Yeah, I don't know it might not close it off honestly because it might say like may not attack or do this or that It doesn't seem right. It's just something that he's just like he's he's a command ability. He's like go over there. Yeah Uh, hey go over there. Did that statue just talk to me not to worry about a dog It's cool. Um the metal smith in the orc or chanter your man. You mentioned the bloods crater already Um new venari banner bearer guy the the standard bearer He's a he's a totem. Yeah, the battle smith will be a huge win for uh fire slayers the dreadsorian Yep No Yeah, but he's not gonna be around for a long. I understand. You can ignore him The cruel gas cruciator that did that that knight haunt dude. They released Uh With a thing on his back alongside gartist. He's actually a totem Interesting So there you go and then the knight vexler in um Yeah, uh, and right, right. So yeah, I just I I just wonder like it may be worth paying attention to just because They get the same range on command abilities as as uh general Oh as an aside, let me just also say, um, this is this is explains Do you remember the observation I made when we did the review of the um Of the lumenath the new lumenath and I said it's really interesting There's no ranges on any of these command abilities. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah The reason why is because everything is tied to your role Sure hero general or totem now. Yeah, and so that's why they're not including ranges on command abilities because it Like it doesn't matter what's in the command ability. Yeah, I honestly wonder how many of the existing ones They're gonna rewrite I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of them rewritten to just adhere to the standard profile, right? Yeah, yeah Um, but we'll see we'll see what they do, uh Matt said you guys believe obr will get a rewording in the worst world that their ability won't be command abilities anymore So you'd be able to activate more than one shield wall per combat phase My answer is I don't know exactly what's gonna happen with obr, but I can guarantee you they're going to get a huge rewrite Like like they've said many times like people from gw said it on twitter like don't worry obr people We know there's some challenges Trust me. You're gonna be cool. We're gonna take area So I'm sure obr is gonna get the love and attention with a they'll have a significant sort of day one update No doubt Yeah Yep So real quickly on the slide We've got an example of at the start of the hero phase. So previously we could choose the order of sequencing Do we have I didn't see anything in the core roles that clarifies whether that's what we're still doing It is it's in there if there are multiple. It's right. I think it's like 162 Okay, if you trigger multiple simultaneous ability if multiple if a single thing is triggering multiple simultaneous Actions or abilities you you as the controlling player get to determine the priority of them and so on and so forth I think it's either 162 or 163. It's somewhere there. Yep. Okay, cool So, yeah, basically again as always you just get to you can stack your things now There will be an interesting exception later in combat. That's pretty cool that I actually really like But we'll get there But now to the big change big news. Oh my gosh, we didn't even get to the biggest news on here yet guys one a First A unit cannot issue more than one command in the same phase two B a unit cannot receive more than one command in the same phase three C The same command cannot be issued more than once in any phase Even across units Yep Yeah, that's a biggie. That's a big one. So the stonks on battle shock immune just went way up Yep Yeah, this is going to keep rearing its head across Everything we talk about for the rest of tonight Right. Yeah, because all these powerful new command abilities. You want to unleash hell You want to rally you want to give plus one attack You can only do it once in the phase. You want to make somebody immune to battle shock? But you got two units of suffered losses pick your unit wisely. You'll only get to do it once Yeah, this is a this is a super subtle Fix on things even like hearthguard berserkers Yeah, because what that means is if if they always strike first they don't get any other commandability effect, right? Hmm Hold on. I need to press f in it to to pay additional respects for the keeper of secrets Who's only use in the Slinash army was basically as an engine for making multiple other units fight twice and now she can't even do that anymore She can pick one unit and let them fight twice. That is not herself Yeah, wonderful use of a greater demon Am I We got one But subtle is the key word. Yeah, I love this change. This is one of many examples of a nice nuance addition that they've made to Yeah, kind of strike at the heart of a number of things. I've got a simple answer This is one of the rules should have been there from the beginning. This should have been a 1.0 day one rule here. Yeah. Yeah, right Now The question is like there's a lot of questions in the chats of butt events. How do sort of aoe Command abilities work, right where it's like they issue the order They receive the order Right because it's actually the general who's receiving the order technically or whatever that the hero and then they're broadcasting this aura That's affecting multiple units. So can those units then receive a second command and my answer is I don't know I would I can see them ruling either way. My guess is probably not They're probably gonna they're probably gonna f aq it maybe to be like that That if they're affected by an aura in a phase that counts as them having received a command in that phase So again, I don't know man You're asking questions that clearly we need the f aq to answer and there are a good number of these in the game Right that are like put it up and then everybody around you get some kind of benny What does that count as I do not know I don't know and then it's not in the rules So either those things are all going to get changed or two. They're going to clarify how it works or but yeah, yeah, yeah right, so like Sis fest even I there's no way I can say that name, buddy But he said how does this work with nefaradas or a ca right like her her neg one to hit aura again Don't know like because if so she could hedge The enemy players out of being able to receive commands He gets her command ability affects enemy units With neg one to hit. Oh, right, right. So if she counts as issuing orders to the enemy And they're receiving it, right? What does that mean for them to suddenly like? Yeah, I don't know I don't know I And I think anybody who tells you they know is just guessing Unless they work for gw or one of the playtests might have seen a potential f aq, right? Sure, right oof Yeah, it'll be interesting to see Oh, yeah Yeah, so who knows Who knows For all the like single target command abilities. It's Fine, right like clear as a bell Great. Know how it works Easy peasy, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Fantastic Uh, so Yeah, jump too fast things that are gone. I used my press f to pay respects joke twice. I forgot I had it on this slide Okay So things that are gone grand alliance allegiance abilities at least for now They could come back in the general's handbook for now. They're gone. They were in the core rules before they're not now Uh new general selection when one dies in non-matched play. That's just a small thing But you know like in non-matched play you know to select a new general if yours died That's not true anymore. So that you actually like you can't just get that command point ever And uh Yeah, crazy or said it's per phase. Yes, I know it's per phase. They can't issue the command more than once per phase So like with all with the please talk about the previous command thing. So like with Uh, all out attack you can issue it once in the shooting phase and once in the Combat phase, right? You should issue it to two units in the shoot in the combat phase I think I said in one phase at the end of everything. I hope I did Yeah, and that's course ways that you can stack across phases. So you can do something here A phase the last two or an extra phase and do something in the combat phase. Yeah, yep, exactly Like if you have somebody who's like in the hero phase like pick a unit that unit gets plus one to hit until the next phase right and then in the Combat phase you've got pick a unit during this combat phase that unit gets plus one to wound Right cool. They can receive both those orders because they happen in different phases. Yes And the bravery bonus for every 10 models during battle shock except scabon Yeah, scabon keep their hyper version of it theoretically because of the way it's written Where it just says scabon get two per 10 Uh, that's fascinating to say easier bookkeeping Sure, and and again more potential hit to incentive to large hordes and the ability to protect large hordes from battle shock, right? Like a lot of things that they want there are Uh, seeming to say like now we're going to bring this we're going to bring it down Yeah, and it really pushes us towards more msu At the end of the day, that's what's going on here Absolutely That's all things should be tom Yeah, it's like and it just raises all kinds of questions It raises all kinds of all kinds of questions For various units, especially with the reinforcements and stuff like that as we're going to talk about. Yeah because Yeah, it's Yeah So steven says What about command abilities that affect a unit there until their next hero phase? Um, yes, those would still work you can you can't use it twice in the same hero phase, right? So like the example I always think of is the castle lord and the castle lord on on sorry on on demonic mountain carcadrec Who gives cast knights and chariots? Uh Plus one to hit and reroll charges That sounds right off the top of my head Now he does that in the hero phase and it lasts until the next hero phase, right? So you could then in the actual hero phase Or sorry in the actual combat phase. I apologize combat phase Issue them a lot of attack again to give them plus two it would cap it plus one But if you were fighting a unit that was giving neg one to hit you could push yourself back up Still being a plus one, right? All right, so yeah So interesting there we go Uh, okay So those are the things that are gone. We all know we all we had many f's in chat to pay respects. Okay by the way as we transition from the core items to the Uh from the core items into the hero phase Why don't you be a hero and hit the like button or subscribe if you haven't already hitting like is so easy It's just moving your mouse right over there and clicking that little button And it helps other people find the show and we really appreciate it. So hero phase Let's do it Okay Mostly the same in the hero phase Exempting some things that we'll cover later like spell casting and casters But there is some really big there's a really big new command ability and really big new heroic actions But I mean like the basic function of the hero phase is mostly the same right what you're doing, right? You're casting spells. You're you're you're dispelling spells. You're stuff like that All right, I'm not going to talk too much everybody's seen heroic actions at this point And everybody's seen rally at this point. Uh, I don't know how that picture of pink horrors got on there. That's completely unrelated You spent the command point for rally and they just popped up. They just appeared I don't know what happened. They're like what? Huh me? You notice that they're all raising their hand. They're like over here I'm in Uh, but I want to hear from both of you guys. So, uh Tom I want to start with you Heroic actions. Obviously you get one hero in each hero phase. So you do it in yours and your opponents What are you thinking about heroic actions? What do you think about them? What do you like and what do you dislike and if anything It's gonna be as annoying as all piss why so Just just to remember like just uh, just to stay on top of this And then like I'm gonna have to create put like a token down For every hero that I use finest hour over the 10 hero phases that I'm gonna get Um I don't know man. I You know what Tom? This is a perfect moment to mention. We already have some really amazing gaming aides From none other than andy long So if you want to see those yeah, they are did you add into the notes? They are linked in the description so you can go there is core rule printouts and game aides Uh ready to go Uh, I mean what I'll say is this I'm excited. Uh, I think the their finest hour could be really exciting For some heroes, uh, I'm terrified of stuff like Marathi when she's running around with that. Yeah Uh, I think uh heroic willpower is probably going to be a trap Um, unless you need to get rid of an endless spell um I think that a lot of people are going to be using heroic leadership a whole lot I think the one we'll see the least of is heroic recovery and it'll be completely Heroic recovery or heroic willpower, but I think heroic recovery will literally be that last The last ditch effort to keep somebody alive when they need to be but so like Yeah, so real quick. I so I too got one game of 3.0 in and let me just say Hard disagree now probably depends on the the the individual army and stuff like that I think there's going to be a lot of variance here as to what you find appealing, right? Yeah, yeah But I really found this to be So compelling Because first of all, like I said, we're going to have a game mate I'll I'm going to print it out to a pdf upload it to drive and share with everybody and basically I'll bring it up right now It looks like this. It has all the little notes Just by phases. It has a little picture for the heroes and heroic actions So you can just read by phase and remember everything here It also has the grand strategies and the battle tactics If somebody wants to take my little document and make it look actually pretty Please do mine is ugly as sin, but I just I was going for functionality If somebody wants to make a fun looking game mate Great, okay that lets you choose your strategies battle tactics and reminds you of command abilities heroic actions monstrous rampages Now like I said after the show I will put that in a format that people can download and stuff like that So you can have it for your games Now I found these really easy to remember because you're right if you have nothing else to do Heroic leadership becomes the default Sure If you have no one to heal and you don't need to have a finest hour You don't need to dispel a spell. You just like your leadership. It's sort of the like flowchart end state right But honestly what I found myself using So very much was heroic recovery. It was amazing Reliance in the chats that he did as well. What's that? Reliant in the chat says he does use it most firms anyways as well. Yeah, I was using like vermin lords with bravery 10 You're healing every turn because you got to roll under your under your bravery, right? And so The fact that all of a sudden my vermin lords like and I was using uh, honestly, I used finest hour as a defensive move Yeah, I was gonna make that point as well. But yeah, yeah good. Yeah, like I when it was their turn and I had a hero in position Yes, right where I knew he could be reprised on Yep, finest hour come get me. Yep, right. I'm ready to go This was the thing I missed last night So I had a little chat with lori on twitter and I was giving some feedback on my Initial experience when we were deliberately testing out on leech hell So I wasn't playing the game normally Looking back on a normal way to play would just be to focus on scoring and holding on as long as possible While 15 flamers shot me and I did not give them free shots Although I did not charge them or charge their screens did not get within nine inches of them But yeah, I missed their finest hour because that would have allowed the cabbage to be All out defense in the shooting phase Stacking with their finest hour in the top of two when he won priority and math wise I probably would I don't know it would have been close, but I would have had a shot at least against Uh nine flamers the other six were tied up. Anyhow, yeah, I think that that's stacking on Yeah, hero monsters in particular that are at a base three of save could be huge Yeah, the it's so fascinating that all of a sudden the bravery on heroes really matters Yeah Like suddenly it's a score I'm like really caring about and all the demon heroes like again stonks on vermin lords Like vermin lords are already really tough And the the warps here who's got like a four up re-rolling save five up after save And suddenly he can be healing 2d3 every battle round that dude is hard as a coffin nail Okay and Just loved it Loved it. He was just like he would get a little wounded and he'd just keep ticking back up Yeah, and they just couldn't bring him down as he just kept cutting through things. Yeah, right Uh, so at any rate, I really think the the one that's sort of like that Whatever for me is heroic willpower But it's fun if you need to I agree with you It's fun if you need to get rid of an endless spell and you're playing like um An army that doesn't do you just don't want to take wizards with worse sons of them on Uh, iron jobs things. We don't normally take wizards. Yeah, exactly. Yeah So, oh, yeah heroic recovery on sigbold is actually really amazing too because he's quite brave He's quite sure of himself. I mean, don't get me wrong Heroic recovery on go track. Uh, it has me a little bit excited Yeah, yep. Yeah. Yeah, sure weird weird Uh, I do love how tomb king tristan says tomb king on exalted chariot stealth buff. Sure, man. Absolutely Yes, look anything that affects all heroes. He's back. He's back in business Uh, oh and smash bats ready to go with this You bet your you bet your you bet your bottom dollar that when smash bats going in on the turn smash bats going in to Do a smash bat thing. He's kicking off his finest hour. Like it is only offense for him Absolutely Okay, uh, and then yeah, I mean rally is rally the the important part about rally to understand is yes, it is Gross on some Units like pink horrors. It's also really funny to use it on like a unit of three giants You'll need to roll two dice, but if you get a six you get a whole 12 loom giant amazing You know the the trick with it obviously is the unit that receives the command can't be in combat That's the trick with rally Right, so if you have anything tying up that unit if you've got one guy in combat with that pink horror unit They can't rally it back Right. Yeah, yeah Uh now rally does work in both hero phases as well just like the heroic actions You can rally in the enemy hero phase Like rallying on pigs makes me a little bit excited. I'm not oh, yeah, man. Absolutely like I'm in for six pigs still I am still stonking on six pigs Or I'm gonna get more tries in but yeah, we'll see you're uh, you're Bly kings on on your blight lords sure. Yeah, I was thinking yeah three wounds four wounds that are that are big size Even like range two three. Well, you know snake bows. They're eight winds The The blight lord plus Yeah, because they're they're now counting as Uh They're now counting as two wounds Or two two models each right for captain injectives. Yeah, we'll talk about that later. Yeah Hmm. Yeah, I'm staying rally and says I definitely have never rallied a pig in all of my attempts To shave Okay, uh I also shout out to re-rolling ones jack who said i'm taking the vast reduction of re-rolling ones across the game personally That seems fair Although it is interesting that ko which are just like riddled with re-rolling ones Suddenly the value of that ability shot through the roof because it's almost impossible to get your hands on re-rolling ones now Yeah Okay, that ily out the twinsies is looking hot tom Yeah, I love the twinsies. I think we were all pretty like interested in the twins before much more interested now. Yeah Yeah, all right. So that was the hero phase. Let's talk movement gentlemen. Some of these are are shorter the core had like You know some big stuff in it, right? Yeah All right, movie move I like to be a little bit way down with our show continue Movement phase All right smaller changes, but now well defined in less confusing terms I really like a lot of the cleanup that happened here 8.0 movement is split and split into three types of movement. You choose one I apologize. I ended a sentence there weirdly with a preposition. That's my fault Uh the you either normal move Or you retreat or you run? Okay You don't do multiples you can no longer run retreat Okay, no This also settles the recent blood knight debate as we all knew it would clearly they were written with 3.0 in mind So as we said blood knights can now normal move out of combat instead of retreating Which means they can recharge which is cool So that's sweet love it And movement phase command abilities at the double that's the Same one we've always had but there is a big change here You now have to decide to use the cp before you make the run roll. So if you want to run six You got to say i'm going to spend the cp at the double if you roll the die The die has been cast cannot use the cp You also have the new command ability redeploy Which is which has been probably seen by most folks There's a lot of questions around this one and how impactful this is going to be on the game It's either going to be really really big or not at all Uh, so you can use this command ability in the enemy movement phase enemy movement phase only After an enemy unit finishes a normal move run or retreat The unit that receives the command must be within nine inches of that enemy unit and more than three inches from all enemy units You can make a d six inch move with the unit that receives the command But it must finish the move more than three inches from enemy units so Hi Yes, multiple visitors. Okay enough. Hey, hey, hey It wouldn't be bad if that one didn't bark. All right, so Hello, dear Hi, Kathy What's Tom? How is Tom a guest a guest? He's okay average your best I would say who's our who's our best guest Do we have one Tyler? Well done. All right. I'm your dog hit like and subscribe There you go. That's right. Okay. Thank you. Hi All right, at any rate hit like for dogs. There you go. Okay, uh, so let's talk redeploy gentlemen. What do you think about redeploy? Tom I'm really mixed on it. Okay I think that it's going to be really useful in some instances and really not useful in others. Yeah Like I would love to be able to redeploy when somebody sets up nine inches from me, which can't happen Which you cannot you cannot read away away from a setup. Yeah, right And so and on top of that like almost all setups are nine inches or farther anyways Yeah, they're outside of no, like not only does it not say setup Right in there because it's only normal. We've run her a tree. Remember the new stormcast can set up in seven with their lord Imperator, right? Yeah, but one the text doesn't allow for redeploying away from a setup and two you must be outside of nine on most Uh, teleports or setups so it wouldn't trigger twice. So yeah, right, right the two reasons why wouldn't trigger So I I think that redeploy will be really interesting sometimes and really useless other times Yeah It's interesting because long weird shaft lines are actually really hard to redeploy and do anything with Because you're only getting like a d6 inches and to move your whole unit like imagine you have kind of a hooked You know Chaff line like took and somebody moves into the pocket here to get them with only a d6 inches away from still having An easy charge is often hard Because there's going to be other units in the mix, right a lot of times when I see people talking about this It's like somebody moves up to six inches away And then I can just roll the d6 and I get a five and I boom I shoot back a full five inches Now i'm 11 inches away and I I screw your your um Your charge right because you went from a six to an 11 like Sure Sometimes that'll happen What I found though is especially early in the game because I tried to use redeploy Was that you know you're in like a tight formation. I didn't have five inches to go backwards Right, right before I hit other units Yeah, right like I would rather them. I'd rather not redeploy let them charge that chap unit and then and then um, yeah Yeah Yes, because you cannot redeploy and unleash hell because it shoots off shooting later. It's right turns off shooting later in the turn Right Now I will say the biggest use of redeploy in my mind isn't actually to screw enemy charges It's to ruin cheating six inch pile in garbage Because those people will often move up to like basically at six inches six. Yeah, and all I need to do then is get one inch away Yeah, like any number on the die removes your ability to pile in six. That's really good. That's a good point I can't wait to use redeploy to steal objectives. Sure. Sure Because I can see them like moving near me and I'll be like cool or roll d6. I'll move it out objective Like I don't care like and move more models within the range of capping the objective Um, because I think that's going to be the most dangerous consequence of this is that if somebody is inched up to an objective and then you move a unit near them They're like cool cool story bro. I'm going to move more things into range 100% agree That's the real use of redeploy if somebody gets near your somebody tries to take the objective They can get three models on you've only got two models on but there's other people in the unit You just couldn't get more models onto the objective. How many times we've been in that situation, right? You run Okay, I got two models on I claimed the objective somebody comes over three Somebody comes over they get three models on you're like cool. I'll redeploy Right, and then I get I sneak two more dudes on I still hold the objective right that kind of objective protection, right? Yes redeploy redeploy is going to let you It like it will be for objective play and I can tell you right now It is what will win and lose like it will be a determining factor between good and bad Oh, absolutely. I see this as the most technical Yes, uh, it's like skill based command ability that like when People who use it poorly will just like try to retreat from every charge Right, right Right, and like often that's just not going to get you where you need to go It'll be a waste of your command points, which are a super precious resource now, right even with more of them Whereas the people who are using this really tactically are going to be using it to like hump objectives prevent you from stealing it from them Steal it from them. They thought they had it Create a pocket create a pocket that minimizes engagement um Like there are a lot of things like that that you like Using terrain creatively to really screw people over um all of that Are going to be the effects of redeploy and it's going to be like It's going to be really frustrating for some players who just who aren't who aren't Aren't able to see kind of the web or the weave of what's happening And then they're going to get caught out and they're going to lose games because redeploy It's also interesting on the flip side If you're the person with a six inch pilot and somebody retreats away from you more than six inches to stop Unit from fighting you can then redeploy up to them Right, and then you'll be able to jump back on them that turn Yeah, I see. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah another thing. So I mean with the range. I mean this could let's say Fulminators with what 12 inch shot with their Lightning that they do mortal wounds come in, you know where you could potentially impact at least short shooting range Sneak outside of it But of course, it's not quite, you know that they fulminators come in They're within nine because they want to charge you and they want to hit you with your with their lightning So not only get a little maybe a little bit more benefit from that But it's obviously not really long enough to really impact, you know, like an 18 inch range It's it's obviously not going to impact So you got to be with the nine and they're not going to get that close to you Anyway, in most cases with like flamers or whatever. Yeah, but that was one thing. Yeah, I was I was thinking of Yeah, like this is only one it's just going to require some playing around with and uh It feels like it could be impactful if you really get good at get good at it But the other thing I'll say is if you have a good anvil unit And you want to protect your castle Another like this can be another interesting use of redeploy where somebody finishes, you know, like Let's say not three inches away from you, right? Like they're they're lining up for like a six and charger seven and chargers like that Instead of redeploying away with your anvil you redeploy toward them Oh, sure. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So you actually push their ability to come into your line Like you kind of redeploy up if you're kind of If you're gardening an objective Yes, if you're gardening an objective you can actually push your line forward and limit how much they can actually put in Yes Yeah, that's a really cool play. Yeah, I like that. Yeah Yeah, as Nico pointed out the redeploy is in the enemy movement phase only we mentioned that at the beginning Nico But yes, it's it's I don't know if all of our examples adhere to that. But yes We might have violated that at some point Right That's that's a good one. Yeah, I could see that being a nice potential bait and switch that maybe your opponent doesn't see but you're planning to where you bait them in with It appears like they have a chance to get on that objective But then yeah, you're playing the averages and you zone it out. Right. That's push out to them. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, effectively you you kind of you can hold them to where their their ranges, right? That's where they can get into you. Yeah, right. That's cool. Yeah. I so I think it's interesting Um, there's a couple other just quick notes Um 9.1 you must be coherent after a move or you cannot move It's worth mentioning and That is because that and they do clarify in there that that means any kind of movement that happens pile ins charges Anything if you cannot end that move coherent You can't move. You can't move Period. Absolutely. Okay Uh And then the 9.4 was a weird one because they talk about flying units landing on terrain And they talk about how they measure diagonally Yeah Which is very different Right, because normally you just measured horizontally and then you just like and then you just set it on top And now you have to actually measure that diagonal. Yeah That is actually a big change for flying units Yeah So not to be underestimated. So that's a big big big Difference in the impact of a flying units can achieve, right? So kind of a They have to actually measure distance to fly now, right? Yep, they have to go diagonally. They don't just suddenly like ignore all A warning for anybody doing the holy tables at holy ward or holy havoc because now you're Like flying units not as good as they used to be. Sure. Yeah, some of those things are pretty tall Yeah, you don't have the 20 inches of movement to get up there. Sorry Yeah I think we didn't we didn't see like the 40k 9th rule book They've got a little sidebar on wobbly model syndrome. Yeah answer to that. We didn't get anything like that in this Yeah, I mean it appears that you unless Then you can still stick to the sides of buildings and nonsense like that. Yeah, exactly But did you notice a really interesting change super fascinating Is that your your base is always considered to be perpendicular is always considered to be flat horizontal Yes, we're at every place place your movement. And so that means that you measure this way You measure this way you have to measure the whole length of your base to get across even like a quarter inch wall And then you have to measure the whole way down Uh Yeah, there's some exemption there for how you can because you do you measure a straight line Is how you actually do the move like they show the guy walking and he can like He doesn't have to weave around this thing. Anyways, yes, there's there's a slight There's a slight like way that that's played that we would all naturally played intuitively to where that you can sound Like shake his hips around, but yes, right? Yeah, it's a super fascinating change. Yeah Uh, okay. Yeah. Getley said so much precise movement and extra thinking time. He said i'm concerned the games will take too long I mean, I can't speak to everything. I played one game at 3.0. It was honestly faster And that's without the points changes that are probably coming that will make everything in the game more expensive Uh, and so we'll have less things on the table, but it was faster. That's what i'll say now I had made my cheat sheet for me. So I was just referencing my cheat sheet down and going I picked this thing. I picked this thing. I picked this thing, right? I wasn't flipping through a book Right Um, so, you know, my answer is have a cheat sheet And and the game will probably go pretty fast. I need to flip through pages. You're asking for trouble. So All right, whoops charge phase Okay Let's do some charging Let us charge into the charge phase. And yes, I know I didn't talk about shooting. Don't worry. It's gonna come later Okay, because it's part of attacking and stuff like that Charge phase. Okay. Is this the home of the scariest command ability spoiler? Yes Uh 11.2 charge phase command abilities forward the victory still the same allows you to re-roll a charge works the same But remember You can only use a command ability once per phase So if you fail two charges yet ain't re-roll in the second one Okay, at least Forward to victory right now other abilities that allow for like Re-roll charge like there's a lot of command traits and stuff like that that says units within 12 inches this general may re-roll all charges Stonks on those Yeah, going up bloodthirsty triumph. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, yes the bloodthirsty triumph another great call out. Yeah, absolutely We're going to get to them triumphs Uh, and then 11.0 there is no coherency restriction on the charge or is there 9.0 It doesn't mention it in the section But I don't want anybody to think it doesn't apply if you go back to 9.0 You'll see it mentions all the different types of movement and says it does apply I put this here because that did trip me up originally. I was looking for that coherency exception again And I had to flip back and read when tyler pointed it out to me. So thank you tyler Uh, got him. I got him. That's some collaborative effort Okay Boy, oh boy unleash hell. Let's get into it So you can use this command ability and after an enemy unit finishes a charge move The unit that receives the command must be within nine inches of that enemy unit And more than three inches from all other enemy units The unit that receives the command Can shoot in that phase But when it does so you must subtract one from the hit rolls for its attacks and it can only oh my god How long is my airbrush going to run? That is the most annoying thing in the universe. Thank you When it does so you must subtract one from hit rolls for attacks and it can only target the unit that made the charge move All right gentlemen Let's talk about implications of this there are many One I'll list a few and then I want you guys to dig into this one Units that can pile in from six inches like zombies never get targeted by this Now you might redeploy away from them as we mentioned earlier Yep, right But they don't get unleashed hell upon Because they don't ever charge They just Jump on in Right. Yep Uh, so in most cases you will not be able to uh To you to unleash hell against zombies For some reason Okay Second thing units that don't roll to hit But have decent auto hitting shots Are scary as all get out So if you charge a uh Medusa In daughters of cane With 31 wound dudes You have 21 wound dudes mathematically by the time you finish that charge Leave thank wall alone If you charge thank wall with any number of troops They're dead They're just dead Assuming he has his spray guns on him, right? Yes, because he will just be like here's 80 mortal wounds to the unit I don't know you do with that what you want Okay, yeah, and clearly the move here is in that other unit They can't be within three inches from other enemy units. So clearly the play here, right is Cheap silly chaff That you move in and then make them make the bad decision Do you want to shoot my silly chap and waste your unleash hell for the turn? Or Do you want to uh Or do you want to like let me get into combat with something that's not going to actually do any damage? And now all of a sudden you can't unleash hell anymore, right? Because there's now an enemy model within three Yeah, right So That's Pretty great It's a powerful ability people who have cheap flying chaff Have a great ability to stop unleash hell because you don't need to charge the shooter The shooter can be behind the unit you're charging So like a flying chaff unit that can hop the line run over and charge the shooters behind is obviously very potent Yeah Felbats suddenly you got a use again welcome back felbats 100 all right. What do you guys got hit me? What if I let's go first? I'm I'm trying to even process the consequences with ko sure What that means Oh, no while you're thinking there is an FAQ here it lists this as a as a charge phase command ability But nowhere in the command ability text does it say it's only in the charge phase Right So if people charge out of sequence hero phase charging like corner iron jaws or people like that Can you shoot in both phases? Or could you do it in both phases? Yeah, exactly. Do you get to unleash hell in them in that phase? My answer is I don't know It's clearly labeled as a charge phase command ability, but it doesn't in the text restrict it to something in the same way that like Uh, uh redeploy does right where it's like enemy movement phase, right? Finishes a charge move in the charge phase. Right. Yeah Doesn't say that. Yeah, I know that's a good catch. Yeah So I I don't know what the answer is there it says You can use the following command abilities in the charge phase. That's the text above Okay, it's pretty like that's pretty Straight text, but it's not in the rules text of the command ability My feeling is you will not be able to use it So like iron jaws and corner people that can charge off phase is another way to dodge unleash hell But I wouldn't bank all my stonks on that until I saw an FB answer, right? Right. Agreed Okay, so I've got some thoughts tom. Let's keep thinking so Yeah, I mean, obviously this is the one that's when you first when you first look through the core roles Or really the articles that we've been getting I mean, it stood out like from a first principle standpoint get wonky It begs the question of my mind. Why, you know, we've been I mean, that's the obvious first question Why because we've been this game has generally been range damage oriented for the most part It's had a skew in that direction. I would say since early 2020 seraphon zinge ko luminesce, etc Dude, how does this make aos? How is this having a net positive on the aos landscape? So that's number one. That's unclear to me But we need to see everything it it may be the case that There's more durability. There's less less screening The objective scoring the mission design all I mean a huge number of variables point values taking unleash hell into account That it'll all work out and it'll be fine It generally playing it yesterday for the first time We were deliberately letting it do its thing not necessarily playing the game the right way But just letting it do its thing with 15 flamers It felt like maybe this should be within three inches So that it's the essentially we would be standardizing the handgunner stand and shoot And uh, let loose until the last by sisters of the watch just standard I could see standardizing that in the game, but the nine inches is very worrisome It sucks because you can the the unit shooting can be very far away and very protected. Yes, right Now, you know, I made the joke about the the um The Medusa in a unit and like I went to the doctor. I said doctor hurts when I go like this He said don't go like that. Right the sort of smooth brain answer No, if it's a rally instance. He said don't do this earlier. I'm not I'm not directly answering you buddy. I love you Um, but you know is don't charge that don't do that charge. Yeah, I mean duh, right? Of course in general, you're going to avoid that But let me also tell you a story of the 3.0 game I played Where I had 30 storm vermin. I needed to take an objective Not only was it my battle tactic for that round. It's a worth two points but it was also That objective I needed to win like the lvp because that would have given me more Objectives than my opponent, right? And it was what I needed to get back ahead in scoring and the only unit I had Anywhere near that objective because of how the game had worked out Yes, right through wacky wacky stuff was a unit of storm vermin Yeah, okay, and I had like 30 storm vermin and I was like well I either win the game or try to right and eat this in the face All right Or I don't so I made the charge and sure enough 20 storm vermin or something like I think was like 19 It was a pretty good role like 19 storm vermin completed the charge out of the 30 that went in Yeah, right now to be fair. They did cut her down. It was just a madousa on foot, right? Sure, sure But yeah, it that that's the main piece with this thing that really stands out It's the zoning impact particularly when you can get your 20. What's the max on sentinels? Is it 20? I hope it's 20. Whatever it is Unknown, okay. Yeah. Well, that's fair. Yeah, so let's say it's 20 sentinels the fact that you can get them in place It's not that hard to get 20 sentinels get get two of them in different spots on the board. It's just that zoning um You know impact oven leash hell near objectives in particular that I think is going to be a potential nightmare with this thing But we'll see. Yeah, I mean the the fact that all the people who have unmodified Mortal wounds on a roll of six or whatever, you know, like sentinels and now the new shooty Oh, cool boys the swamp bogglers. Yeah They are officially swamp bogglers. By the way, like kb would be the abbreviation cruel boys Swamp bogglers is their idiosyncratic name. So let's get that trending everybody swamp bogglers is the name for the new works They're swamp bogglers So the You know like there's a lot of mortal wounds on sixes in the game Like a lot obviously I could name a lot more, but I'm not going to That's that's scary because they don't care about that neg went ahead. That's not what they're doing Right there. They're just like trying to mortal wound you into the ground on the charge. Yeah It also means that like heroes that would try to charge and pin a unit It's like, oh, that's a rough time for them. Right, right Yeah, yeah, I mean there's gonna be some play around it certainly uh peter adkinson plastic rake He's working on an article. So yeah, I mean you can find peter adkinson sigmar He's also working on some articles for gunhammer.com right now. He's gonna cover this and yeah try to lay out some thoughts But uh tom any any thoughts on this one? Awesome people are gonna die By the way, this is one of those things that actually kind of makes the game faster because you go to charge And then half your unit dies. It's like Yeah, and there's just so many command points that are gonna be floating around sure Like I'm thinking about in a army like ko where it's like sure you can pin one unit But how many do I have within range that you've just triggered that I can choose Sure. Yeah. Yeah, you're saying like there's always another unit of shooters, right? If it's not like ours, it's the ironclad if it's not the ironclad I will have somebody within nine inches that can continue to shoot right And that's what I'm like I would be more concerned. I'm not as concerned with like Like yes things like lumenet they're gonna be terrible But they're not gonna have multiple overlapping shooters sure they have a unit of shooters that you can theoretically chat about through the At some point. Yes. What I would be concerned about are things like tempest I Are things like ko Um, you know a funny one here are gonna be things like fire slayers You're gonna throw axes at them I I have 30 hand axes I I encourage you to throw 30 hand axes at me on sixes and fives. I'm just going to sixes. Yeah But but like if you trigger the right rune, right for the empowered hand like The problem here or re-rolls because you can get that like those are going to be unintended Consequences that I don't think people are thinking about and there will be shooting kill boxes. Sure Um, where you're going to come in and suddenly it's going to be really really scary. Yeah Yeah, and I don't think that people will see it until they experience it Um Uh And it's going to catch some people out Sure Because that's a command put you're like, yeah, go ahead and throw all those eight axes Okay, I have 30 hand axes that I just throw to you And that's on average five wounds that are coming on you Like that's five That's that's fine, but that's one command point that like Like I didn't have anything else to spend that command point on in the charge phase. Yeah And so that's five free wounds on those that you're coming in on the volkites. Sure No, like again people don't think it's a big deal until it is sure Yeah, well if that's a problem then there are countless better units and examples Sure, like if they are really The problem is those guys are actually still scary once you get to melee, right? Like, yes, if I charge You know, whatever Angkor Raiders, whatever unit of Angkor Raiders is allowed Sure, that's a lot of shots on fives and fours right rerolling ones and twos or whatever, right? But, right Um, but at the same time, it's like, okay, once I get there though, there's a lot of dead Angkor's Right like that's that's the end of that Right, because I'm afraid of like, you know, uh Flamers or salamanders or Yeah, whatever, you know, like a jailboat or a hero nearby or or 20 thunders Are even terrifying Because they're going to be guarding heroes. You're not normally going to go in on them right away And there are two shots on threes and three or fours and threes um neg one rend Especially if it's a and if it's a monster coming in they're doing two damage pop that's Yeah, yeah, so, um sporadicus asked will after charge move effects like the deep mare horns, which I don't I don't know exactly what that is. I assume it's like a charge two plus you do d three mortal wounds probably Uh, assuming you're the charger trigger before the unleash hell since it's your turn the answer is yes Because those would both have the same trigger Uh, and they would in this case it doesn't hit up against one six four It happens up against the just different non conflicting abilities happening off of the same trigger, right? To the different units are activating So yes, you would do your impact hits because you have priority And then then the enemy would do their their unleash hell Like likewise night haunt should be able to pile in an attack before the trigger the shot Yeah, if if night haunt keep their their slot machine. I get to fight in the charge phase that would happen First yeah, yeah Yeah, I guess like personally my acid test for 3.0. I mean it comes down to is the system the ecosystem going to be rebalanced to Even out range damage oriented list relative to melee oriented slash control oriented And this again, I don't really understand why we need this why it's in that positive on the game If it turns out like there's it makes sense great It doesn't I don't think it really makes sense right now Yeah, it's it's interesting. I think this is my biggest wait and see that i'm kind of worried about Um hot spur said it only it's is it only shooting attacks? You can use not abilities like rock guts throwing builders correct or the rock controls. That's correct It has to have a shooting missile profile to use it But if it has a shooting missile profile, you can use it You can just only target the unit that made the charge move. So Yeah, but I mean like uh, the like I know we're not afraid of magma drops, you know, obviously keep going towards but like they their their breath weapon is a shooting attack It's a missile weapon. Okay Yeah, yeah, which those kinds of things can work, right? I mean if that's the same reason thank-well is like You're all dead works. Yeah, right So there you go, which by the way, I want to have like thank-well and a warplighting cannon Just like three inches 3.1 inches back from my infantry lines all the time as I'm moving And I'm just like let's go man charge me. I will never charge you I'm just gonna move forward until you're forced to charge as I surround you And then they come in and I'm just like 12 or whatever All right Good times. It's good times. And then the thing blows up and kills itself, but it was worth it That's why you play scaven so you can do a lot of damage and then blow up and kill yourself. That's the fun of it All right shooting and combat Here we go Okay 20. All right shoot and combat All right, here we go Attacking Uh shooting remains just as powerful pending points adjustments as I say here Now we already talked about shooting a little with unleash hell, but it's you know, this is actually where we get into it Uh 13 3 gives us the attack sequence and some important changes Hit and wound rules are capped at plus and minus one and this cannot be changed by any other rule This does have the inviolate text on it as does the save roll cannot be modified by more than plus one Negatives apply as normal I have bolded here math. We'll get to that in a second Okay, yeah get to the math You have your attacking command abilities. These are uh shooting or combat which is all out of attack and all out defense Very simple plus one to hit use when you choose a unit to shoot or fight Thank you games workshop for changing the timing on this this command ability Which is I go to use the unit to attack I use the command ability the dumbest thing in the world was You would have to use the old version at the start of the combat phase And so many times people would be like, oh crap. I meant to use a lot of tactics. Okay if I use it I'm like, yeah, of course. I don't care because I always thought it was dumb that you had to like Pressing it your way into knowing which one you you know are like that It's just so easy to move past the start of the turn and start rolling dice when because you're so excited to fight Right like yay. This is the thing. I've been looking forward to I get to roll dice and kill the enemy And it's like, oh, no, you roll to die now. You can't Well, not only that it's interesting because it lets you not waste a command point right in defense if Yeah, they don't get targeted right 100. So these are used when they're targeted or when they're chosen to fight Which is a great change Yeah, uh small note here on 10.1.2 Look out sir does not apply to enemy heroes that are 10 wounds plus remember that number if you're a 10 wound hero you're a chump Yeah, welcome to the first wounds in the game. I'm looking at you kill a boss on Uh, great snarl tooth or whatever his name is whatever the new swamp boggler mounted guy is he's 10 The dex sessa the slanesh twin. She's 10 wounds Uh, so yeah, uh the cauldrons the cauldrons all just got bad Yep, all all chariots and all the nonsense things like gludos and the chariots and the screaming bell All of those previous heroes that used to be able to claim lookouts, sir right Basically, here's I say it. So like here's my side. So yeah, take the idle on Uh, yeah idle on getting a cover save nonsense, right? I love it. Okay, so They released excess and and senessa right the two twins. Yes. I'm talking about so I should again get off my back They're a perfect example here One of them is 10 wounds one of them is nine wounds the 10 wound one is pointed higher than the nine wound one Wrong wrong listen gw. Let me let you know a secret if you took the same war scroll exactly the same Copied war scrolls But this one had 10 wounds and this one had nine wounds The nine wound one should be like 40 points more than the 10 wound one Because this guy over here that's nine wounds gets access to so many things in the game That this dude does not Okay, so Please understand the nature of what happens when you make a cut point like this That's suddenly living on the cut point sucks You're the worst. This is the worst. You are of wounds to have in the game. You're bad period. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah Okay So There are many examples of this 10 wound thing by the way. This isn't the only one This is one of far from the only one and as manzak said Selton rime slips right in under there at not at eight. Oh, it's it's amazing. Yeah Yin drasta the other at the opposing enemy hero is also fine. She's good. She's good to go Yeah, nice. Okay, so some prime time mortal wound platforms on there you go with the body with the bodyguard Okay, now let's talk about real quick. Here we go Uh You total up all negatives and positives and discard anything over plus or minus one to hit or wound The same thing for saves you total up all the positives and negatives You can go any number into the negative But you cannot go more than one into the positive You're capped at one save better than printed on the war scroll And scrolls with built-in plus ones because the shield or other can't benefit from the command ability Unless the scroll is rewritten or whatever, right? So if you have a shield that says if you have the shield your save characteristic becomes X That's good. If you have a shield that says when you have the shield your save you get plus one to your saves. That's bad right Okay, so The important part here is let's go through an example when I say this math. Here's where the math comes in Okay I have a shield that says I have plus one to save. Sure. Why not? And I've been by finest hour on plus two And I use all out defense. I'm at plus three Yep, okay Now I can only increase the save printed on my scroll by one. Let's say I'm at a four up save normally Okay So the max I can actually achieve is three in the end If someone rolls into me and hits me with neg three rend It counters my positive three. I'm on a four up Okay, if someone rolls into me and hits me with no rend I'm on a three up Right because I can only benefit from one of those pluses Yep Everybody understand the the math there. So you have to like you just you do the math. How many plus ones? How many minus ones? What's the total now? Yeah, this is exactly what they did in 40k ninth Yep So There you go. All right gentlemen any thoughts on on attack? Yeah, I mean that's it's a huge deal I'm generally glad that they did it this way. I didn't Realize this initially when first reading the core rules. Yeah Yeah, it's big. It's Um, but I'm a fan. Yeah, I did anyway. I already said my thoughts on this I I feel like when you've got that critical unit You need to keep alive You now have Many more opportunities to do that in the game, particularly if it's a hero monster with a great base save And I I feel like we're gonna see that have a sizable impact in a lot of games Generals will be hunted Because generals are gonna killing a general is going to reduce their command points by two per turn It's also all over the grand strategies and the battle tactics to kill generals. Yeah. Yeah, so I like the option to be able to turn up defense just a little bit if I need. Yep. Yep Yeah, I mean, I think in general heroes are more survivable now. Like that's yeah, that is true. Yeah Yep Okay Yeah All right, cool. Uh, that was uh, it was it was bold. It's like the five up award armor of destiny just across the game I like we got real artifacts back after a sword. So first the great feather charm came back into the game and then this so there you go Uh, okay Combat uh, mostly just clarifications on order of operations though. There is one thing that's super important to point out here Uh okay, so, um The 12.0 combat phase clarification a unit that is not within three inches of an enemy at the start of the combat phase Is still allowed to fight if they end up within three inches of the enemy later in that phase That was always true like they could always get pulled You could get pulled into combat But the important part is actually in the clarification on this page That says this means that a unit was units with strike first, which we'll get to in a moment on the new order If x can still fight later in the phase Even if there were no enemies at the start of the phase Because it used to be that you could like here's a person who has Fight at the start of combat like has fight first, right? Here's another unit standing beside them Right. I would charge right here to 3.1 inches outside of that unit Let the start of combat pass and then pile Point two into them an attack or whatever, right? Yep. Yep. Okay That doesn't like yes, you can still get around them going first that will still happen You can still beat them going first Like that. Yeah, right, but it used to be you're gonna stop them from fighting at all because they've missed their chance Now they still do get to hit you back. Yeah, okay and normal activation sequencing. Yeah, yes yes, uh So that's a huge change Strike first strike last has all been codified Units of strike first fight before all others units of strike last strike after all others if both apply neither apply The order goes like this and this is really important. It's so important. It's so important It's awesome. Like another one of those little new ones that they caught. I love this Okay So You fight you go start of combat phase abilities are used all of them both players Yep, units of strike first attack units without either fight units of strike less fight end of combat phase abilities are used It's so important What that means is it used to be if you could strike first and you charge an enemy or whatever is your turn You could hit them before they could use their start of combat protective abilities before I can put up my plus one to save Before I can put up my whatever I can do right you can like good And and the abilities that are start of combat like the the frost the stone horn like frost aura that Fight last it actually works now, right Right Yes, like that's that's really that's a big deal. Yeah Something that stomps ground shaking stomps. Yeah, I'm not gonna turn it over is By the way, if you want to read the funniest example in this whole book I don't know if it's actually and I've got reprinted the corals or not I think it did in the free download Look at the example right here on page what's page 259 of the normal look I don't know what it is in the the core rules, but it's next to the strike first strike last effects thing It is the worst example ever It's like you try to follow it and it's like because it's trying to explain like five different units with various strike first and strike Last effects and you're like, thanks. I don't understand anything now Just read this it's clear. That's how it works. Just look at the table You're good. Don't read the example This is a great change Yes, 100% Um So much clarity. It's good. Yeah, and so you know, I should say you now that makes me angry There you go. You now resolve all these things fight. Um, it removed all concept of sub phases Right, this is something that that Nico used to talk about a lot. Those are gone. There's no more sub phases It's all one phase Um, in addition units now alternate fighting throughout the combat phase So if you both of you have strike first or strike last you alternate just like, uh, just like normal Okay, brilliant Like how it always should have been. Yes Okay, thank you. Uh, I have here written take that idk Don't know why that got in there And I have a little note here on the side that said dice rolls can now go below one So bestilladon math is dead What's that? So I saw that what's what's that about? Talk that out. All right. Sure. So in the old in 2.0 rules The the trick with saves and these kinds of things is that they couldn't get modified below one There was this weird exception That the roll couldn't be modified below a one. I'm remembering that now and so because of that you could have rend 7 million Yeah, but because it's one Yes, you couldn't the bestilladon would still successfully save on a modified roll of one Right getting flashbacks to bestilladon week. Right that we had. Yeah, but that's not the case anymore. All right Um, just randomly They pulled this out. It's gone. It's dead hallelujah Okay, and now the bestilladon can be rendered as normal. He's just a really tough dude great Perfect. It was just like great change. The math works like you think it does He's the one plus. I have rend three now. He's in a four up great like yay Uh Surcon flexes says our grand alliance is still a thing to make armies with and matched at the moment No, uh, they are not in the core rules. My guesses will see some appeal to that in some way in the grand Or in the general's handbook. It would be my guess. So I'm sure they'll re-instantiate somewhere there They probably took it out of the core rules because and put it into a ghp or something because it was pretty locked in there So I don't I don't know just thoughts. I don't I don't know. I don't know what they're gonna do or not do I have not seen that book. I don't have that book. I know nothing about that book So I'm the wrong guy. I hope they do But there you go Okay, so then oh the other thing to mention on this page is on pylon Um, pylon is now toward the nearest unit Not model Oh my god greatest change in the history of the game I now don't have to watch tom play his little dumb Konga game where he's taking a 30 man unit. I know you're doing this little Worst original writing of a rule ever should have been killed Five minutes into this game existing Okay Now you simply pile into the closest unit now remember Coherency does still restrict that because you got to have like two guys working their way around in two ranks Yeah, but honestly when people talk about the game slowing down Here's my honest answer stuff like those decisions of those command points and remembering that stuff Okay, isn't actually the thing that slows the game down Fiddly piling in And movement of models like really go and measure one of your games Okay Yeah, like sit there with a watch and record the time you're spending doing things or watch somebody else do it It's really the way to do it because you'll you'll have to stop to write stuff down Like clock time someone else do a time in motion study And I guarantee you That doing fiddly movement and piling in is where the vast majority of time went The other fiddly thing was in re-rolls Yeah Right and both of those have been cut Because there are much less re-rolls in the game now in the core right obviously And much less and now the piling in is so smooth And I will say in my in I I In my test game. I took Skaven out. I took a big old horde army Right maxed out all my units by the reinforcement points as to what I could do So I had like 40 40 30, which is the the legal max, right? This clan let's go from 20 to 40 with one reinforcement point, right? So fast I was piling in like I was like take two take two take two take two take two take two take two good done fight. Nice. It was so fast Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fantastic Loved it. Thank you. It took six years, but we got there. We got there Uh, I hate to uh be this guy, but I'm gonna have to set up folks. It's fine I understand. I knew we were about to hit your time. Tom appreciate you here with us Thank you for coming back. Ty and are gonna keep pressing ahead Tom much appreciated brother. We hope to see you back sometime soon But I know you're dealing with some stuff. Everybody send Tom some uh some some love He's got a lot of life stuff going on, but uh, he's our hero for showing back up here and making time Yep. Uh, good luck everybody. Thanks for having me. Thanks for letting me be a guest Absolutely. See you dude. See you guys Uh, okay so that uh, then our last combat item here is Uh, just some slain model stuff Uh, 14 to you don't remove models that are slain until all the wounds caused by its units Caused to its unit by an attack have been allocated. That's not actually that different That just means like that's how we all tended to do it anyways We didn't actually pull one at a time We'd like all of those attacks are resolved now. I pull off this number of units basically Play it like you've always played it and you're playing it correctly again This was a change to where the rules changed to how people actually played Right 100% So no big deal there Uh, 14 to 1 returning slain models all have to be set up within one inch of a model that was not returned earlier in that phase Fantastic. So now you can't string out really in any way. You really have to be tight This is effectively sort of a implementation of a FAQ that had been around earlier And then ward saves, they're no longer feel no pains or after saves or just whatever Their ward saves and you get a limit of one Anything else on this one Tyler, I think this is all pretty straightforward. Yeah, very straightforward. Yep. Love it Yep. Yeah, just so many of these great cleanups that they've standardized across the system. That's great I agree Okay, but did we did you catch we had a sidebar? I don't know this would be the moment where they answer the zombies question In terms of there's you can't go over. Oh, yeah, whatever your starting size Yeah In case anybody missed it because there was some debate in the community about yeah, I can you know on two ups Can I go over the size blah blah blah? Great. Yeah, great clarification. Yes There's a sidebar that mentions that a limit that a unit can never be Restored above its starting size. So zombies can't go over their starting size So if you have 20 zombies and then they they munch people to bigger to they munch people into zombies They still cap it 20. Yes. Yep. Yep And we'll get into those they clarify the skellies as well in terms of how they work and getting back models And for purposes of battle shock things like that we can do that later Swab lion any idea if you can pile in if you are base to base with a model and slide around the model's base Yeah, 100% man because you're still you have to end at least as close To the unit. So if you're touching you just move slide to the left Slide to the right right you just slide. That's all it is Double lock is gone. I mean you could be potentially surrounded, but yeah Yeah, because you're in the unit you can pull yourself out of fighting one guy and just swing around that unit Just so easy breezy beautiful. We're living in a wonderful world. Oh god, and I'm excited about it All right. Yes. Thank you, Tyler. Great note. I appreciate you mentioning that 202 All right, let's talk battle shock Speaking of skellies. Here we go. Nice. Absolutely Uh, okay battle shock not big at first but actually done done Uh 15.0 if a model is returned to a unit in the same round it was slain it still counts as a slain model for battle shock Ouch new skeletons That's gonna hurt. Yeah, that's gonna leave a little that's gonna leave a little sting Uh 15.3 inspiring presence as it was but remember you can't use it more than once a phase So inspiring presence like all command abilities limited to once per phase Big deal Big big deal. So those things that prevent that that provide battle shock bubbles Said vermin lord with the re-rollable saves and all of that who also puts out a 26 inch battle shock immune bubble Or the the the two towers Uh, yep Yep, that's all good I didn't this meant nothing to me by the way in my test game has meant nothing. I used inspiring presence Zero times. Right. Right. Yeah, zero I'm excited to live in the world. Well, hopefully. Yeah, I'm very very battle shock. It's gonna matter more now. Yeah We maybe we finally got there Uh one one saying I believe raw rules is written right now fled models Do not count. Let's see. What was I gonna say? Uh, the models returned to unit in the same round it was slain Yeah, so there's this kind of distinction they make between being slain and fleeing or being removed or whatever, right? Yeah, and so like what counts as what I didn't include that in there because I don't think they meant to create a rule Distinction. Yeah, okay between that. I think they were just identifying like they were just game terming The various things, right? Right. So I imagine like that was such a gamey interpretation I kind of left it out because it was he was even two was techier than the one five five discussion. Right Okay So To me, I think that's just gonna be clear like cleared up very fast by an FAQ because it's like not look dead is dead Yeah, exactly, right Right. Um, Cripp shadow a question for that word rule. Does that mean you can only ward off one wound? No, no, no It just means you can only take one ward save, right? So let's say imagine you are but you have both a five up and a six up Ward save Which could be like the vermin lord I have mentioned just mentioned on mystical terrain You can only choose to one of them. So obviously you're only going to take the five up. I'm sorry. Go ahead Yeah, uh, I started talking about thinking what I was getting at which was rally that that that's the issue at play in terms of the question Do Models that flee to battle shot count for purposes of rally, right the command. Yeah, so but it's in 1. 2.2 remove from play sometimes models we remove from play most commonly if they're slain or flee Or to make their unit coherent and then it goes on but yeah, so Do you think we'll prop for purposes of rally? Do you think they're just gonna it's all the same thing or yeah, they're not Going to make us make three piles Yeah, like just in an addition where we're trying to smooth things out and and remove problems like that I think that was just I think that's people overreading into into trying to create clean game terms, right? That's all Yeah, the next sense Uh, let's see Hawkeye says vince, do you think that an sob list with three megas will still be viable in the new ghp? I mean, yeah, I hope so Probably like my my guess is sons of badminton's points won't move very much because they can't they can't yeah If they put them up even like 15 points, you can't build a vine army anymore Just like It just falls apart So it's like it's you basically can't adjust the points The the the right answer is they should just like if they just made them all 500 or something like if all the The big guys are just 500 We'd be like, yeah, then then the math would still work, but that's kind of the cap, right? They came up of that I was wondering about that I never sat down and looked at it in terms of the options, you know Like one mega and the rest smalls two megas the rest smalls three megas the rest in terms of like You know is there a range in there in terms of where we could end up If they do raise the points or is it generally like they can't Increase the points hardly at all a little bit of wackiness around singles when you start taking singles and not units Okay, okay, and now with reinforcement points like the one and then you can only take two units to three And then you've got to go three singles so like Yes, there are there is weirdness that will suddenly happen if they screw with the points at all a lot of weirdness Okay I mean I I remember one of the statements that was made was like sons of them it has to be correct because they can't change the points later Hmm Right on right like it's just the nature of the army. It's kind of locked to where it is. Sure You know, I'm not saying somebody couldn't be 485 or something and that would still work Like if you move the stomp up to like 485 like those kind of little things work But then I don't know what you're you're not you cannot change the points in a fundamental way to change the army Right right right makes sense All right, so terrain and objectives battle shocks a quick one Okay, terrain and objectives Can you clarify the maximum size equals starting size for model return? Yes, I can there is a sidebar in the Rules that says a unit can never be restored above its starting number of models So you cannot heal a unit to or add models to a unit above its starting size So like zombies can't chew brains enough to go larger than whatever they started that they can restore models up to their starting size again But they cannot go beyond that Yeah That is the clear I can't remember where it was but yeah, it's it's a sidebar somewhere Uh terrain Uh, my answer here is not the changes we were hoping for No, but some minor improvements. Yeah Uh Couple quick notes. You now have the concept of 17.0 point two of behind terrain Right, uh, so you can be behind terrain, which can also grant you cover Which is still plus one to save which obviously doesn't stack with all the other plus one to saves But can be a way to get plus one to save if you have no other way to do it models with 10 plus wounds can't get cover My notes here on defensible terrain and large and very large terrain is like it's garrisoning just like it is Don't worry about it. It's a lot of stuff. Yeah, I haven't seen many tables with garrisonal stuff Maybe that'll change. Maybe we'll all start garrisoning and then I'll do a whole show about garrisoning But for now I'm just going to jump beside it Wild woods, uh, which I put in print here all forests. Nice try gw. I'm not buying your woods Yeah Do block visibility if a straight line one millimeter wide between the two models passes across more than three inches Of the wildwood including the space inside Again doesn't apply to 10 wounds um If three inches is three inches pretty significant because of course now well, yeah, I guess it would depend on Well, I'm thinking of the awakened wild woods, which has now won with three pieces not one to not three to six pieces Right. So presumably it's just going to be the same thing one to three pieces of smaller. Yeah footprints. Yeah I mean three inches is significant. It's usually like if you're actually in the woods, you kind of got to be on the back of it Yeah, you're not going to feel like a huge unit in there and block line of sight But if you're on the other side of it, then it's easy to block it, right? So yeah, absolutely. Yeah um Demolish removes the ability to garrison everyone inside a slain on a 1 on a 1d6 Have to then be set up within six inches Of the destroyed terrain more than three inches from the enemy. This is actually a gap right now The book is silent as to what happens if you can't do that Like if that's impossible Oh, sure, right. Like imagine the enemy surrounding the the garrisonable building. Yeah, and then it gets demolished What cannot and that suddenly we got like there is no place to be to do that Yeah, right. What happens? Is it clear? Do you remember offhand in terms of choosing to leave a garrison? whether You what happens if you can't do I mean, I guess presumably you just you just don't do it Yeah, I think in that case it says like you just you know, you can't leave a garrison, right? Right that makes sense, but yeah demolish it forces you. Yeah, you're out unintentionally you didn't you know, right? So I mean like I don't know what happens there It's literally silent. It needs to be an FAQ. They just they just missed that. It's one of the few times in the book where I actually read it and went Legitimately, they just didn't answer something. It's not that it was confusing or that we needed a perhaps a refinement This was just like, oh, they just didn't think of that scenario, right? Yep Sammy says when will the sole blight FAQ come out? Assumingly probably at the same time all the rest of these are released. I don't think we're gonna get the FAQ Why would they do an FAQ now when they're gonna bid all the FAQs like that? It'll come out at the same time. They do the updated PDFs for everything. I was yeah So and then 28.1.3 I went ahead and slid that in here because mysterious terrain If you're using that mysterious terrain table, there are some changes. I always use mysterious terrain I like it. I hope they bring back the other six. They only have the basics in here I would bring back the other six because I have d12s for my uh dice to roll and put on my table um Dammed is now plus one to hit instead of re-roll ones. That's the one where you can take uh damage Yep Deadly is now set up run retreat move charge Basically anything you do with deadly terrain triggers the roll of a one you take mortal winds And then mystical Oh, I've been listening to a lot of mystical lately And mystical is plus one to chanting and banishment rolls for priests and a six plus ward So yes arcane still exists. It's still plus ones wizards in every way But now priests have a terrain they can get plus one to their chanting for Love it. That's good. That's real good. Yeah So yeah, that's big. Yeah inspiring is still the same at one of the braver characteristic of units Arcane inspiring and sinister are all still the same and inspiring sinister remain dumb It is holy within one inch. I don't think it used to be holy within but yeah Holy within one inch to get that. Yep. So Yep, and yeah, sinister. I think is the same way but on the other side minus one I believe holy within one inch there as well. I'd have to double check on that, but yeah um Hawkeye says haven't we all been garrisoning for the last year because of kovat. That's a great I mean one thing that I mean may go without saying these are not of course keywords. These are game terms Yeah behind terrain covered principal terrain. So yeah, we We haven't yet gotten a keyword terrain system like 40k ninth. Did you guys of course did a show with rob? Or really really good show kind of going through Why I think generally we probably need a terrain keyword system and we need it in 2.0 We're probably going to need it in 3.0. Yep. So wool this feels like I mean, maybe we might get a future supplement We know it's not looking like it's going to be in the ghp 21 Yep, because we saw the table of content. There was no like hey It does it's not underwhelming Yeah, because you know in terms of range damage Weirdness with verticality like a ko boat hanging out high up and you can't charge it Let's say or it's what you know, like it's You just put a dice there and put it up to the side because there's no like clarity in the way that you guys have It's like rain and hell. It's really clear on all what you can and can't do in terms of model placement. Yeah Terrain as you guys thought, you know, you can make things impossible or you know, whatever There is a small important change to defensible terrain, which is it is actually impossible Oh, right. Okay, which is a nice change So you either must garrison it in which case you're kind of taken off the table and assumed to be in the building Yeah, or the or you can't go you can't be on it Yeah, that isn't so they they they like they clearly concepted impassable terrain because they said these buildings can't be landed Like you can fly over top of them. Yeah, like you can ignore the terrain in your movements If you're a flying model, you can just like zip across and that's fine, right? but um But they but they didn't create the the system I wanted to see like in my mind There should have been an obscuring that's just like blocks line of sight not silly wildwood nonsense, right? There should have been an impassable and then sure garrisonable and couple of right that should have been the keywords We only need four. It's what I said during the terrain show. I stand behind it Is that what you guys I know you guys had three. Did you have garrisonable? Was that your fourth? Okay, yeah, yeah, I looked at 40k's system after that show Just incidentally and it they had a lot more and half of them seemed unnecessary to be honest And so yeah, it seemed like we could potentially have a simpler number smaller number Yeah, and and probably you know make it work, but yeah, we'll see We'll see what we get Okay, somebody said the volume difference is pretty big and that I'm quieter than you that's interesting I don't know why that would be but that's fine. I turned myself awesome because usually on the problem. Yeah, it's weird I turned myself down purposely so I wasn't uh, so I wasn't trying to like overwhelm you because I'm generally a loud person, but Uh, yeah, tell me if that's better. I apologize if I was quieter than I should have been okay Nobody else mentioned anything uh, all right objectives Some interesting changes to be sure Uh, yes, the sons of behemoth stonks continue to go up They're just rising buddy. They're rising Okay, 18.1.1 After setup is complete But before the first battle round begins each player gains control of all objectives that are within six inches of any friendly models And more than six inches from all enemy models then goes to checking for control as normal Stonks Yeah Really cool change Yeah, so great because it used to be this weird situation where objectives didn't technically get Claimed until the first time they were checked At the end of the first player's turn Right, which meant weird things like the the Cracking eater could kick the objective in round one even if he's standing right next to it Right, unless you were going in the bottom of the turn and then already passed the control check right, right now kicks Kicking hard kicking right away Immediately. Yeah, so there you go Yeah, good change It also does uh, this also increases the stonks on the lore master and his sneaky setups Because he can prevent this from happening Yeah, because he can set up outside like within three inches of enemy units Right, so if you've got an objective buried in your space, he could set up and just block you from actually taking control of your thing Yeah, absolutely That guy's a nightmare Four times and every time there's just something wonky that screws up my game plan. I'm like Yeah, the last one was mighty. You know turning up mighty destroyers. I wasn't thinking about oh, there's just going to be a lore master It's going to hang outside three inches of me. Yeah, wherever he wants I hate him He's going to find yeah My buddy who plays lRL in our club. He showed up, you know, he's really he was really excited about lRL Like he's not a power gamer at all. He just he's just he's a great guy And a good player and I don't mind playing lRL against him. He plays fun armies Yeah, but like he showed up and maybe like the second week he got a lRL He's like, oh, I went to the store. They had this hero. I really liked how this dude looks So I bought him. Is he cool? And it was the lore seeker, of course And I was like, congratulations. You bought the best model in the army, right? Because like he doesn't he doesn't ask for my advice. I'm not gonna give it to him. I'm you know unbidden, right? So Yeah, sure I just thought it was hilarious All right, cool Uh, let me go back to my other screen here. Sorry. Okay. So, uh 18.1.2 if the unit has models within six inches of more than one objective You must pick one of those objectives for the models Models from that unit to contest You can no longer String out and have five models from the unit count toward this objective and these five models over here count toward this objective Nope single unit Uno Objectivo Love it. Yeah going back to 1.0. That's how we used to do it. Yeah. Yeah Sometimes the old ways are the good ways. Yeah, uh, and then perhaps the biggest change that we're all so excited to see Monsters count as five for objective control and models Not heroes though heroes are often the ones who are going to be like this, but not always Yep Models with five plus wounds who are not monsters Count as two So Hello As though they're by the way. Hello mighty skull crushers. Uh continued boo blood crushers I love that blood crushers are always just the worst of the worst every single time They always lose out and now they find another way to be terrible Um, hello piggy pigs. Oh, yeah, pigs um Plus coil blight lords sharks Right, there's lots of models like this in the game 100% Yeah, uh, oh six pigs counting as as uh, 12 models on an objective like Thumbs up. I'm here. I'm here for a big time. Absolutely. Yeah Actually, since you're a list while we're talking here, I'll find that list that I emailed Yeah, I geeked out one night and came up with a comprehensive list of everybody that would qualify for this You did you did it? It was great We got actually make some use of it here while we're talking Actually, I've got it. I've got it up right here. Tyler. I've got it. Actually. I literally had it right next to me Here we go Yes So, uh, you're looking at the uh, your eight nine wound list, right? That's what you're talking about Yeah, and the men's size two to three on the ovals and the circles Yeah So, although not all of these have five wounds right because you were that's her. Yeah, that's certainly that's her. Yeah So on ovals you got paladors Skull crushers. Oh, yeah, you're right. Blood crushers are four Yes, they are my friend. Yeah all your drake offs that are five Uh, drake off stonks I'm in for them because they go to four for one reinforcement point stay with the easy coherency Stonks high on drake offs. That's all I'm saying. I'm ready for a hundred percent. Yeah Poor fiends getting screwed left and right. Sure more fang being another great one, right? Although they're ogres So they were already Doing this but sure The um Uh The morgast harbingers and morgast arach arachai archi archi. Yeah, how do you say that? Kernoth hunters, right? Those two are those are five wound guys, right? Yeah So, yeah, lots of stuff like that lots of good five wound models sneaking around in the game That suddenly get access to this and then you obviously guess in the eight nine wound area Uh avatars of cane alopexes. You started non hero guys in this space The uh, you know the cockatrice is a monster. So he's good to go there Trying to get the other ones that are like that that aren't monsters and are just kind of that range of units Oh, the big chariots in slanesh. Yeah, we're all like six seven eight wounds the seeker and uh, hell Flair and exalted right the non hero versions Uh, yeah, so good stuff. Yeah, what a few absolutely So good times, uh the warp lightning cannon Oh lord, the warp lightning cannon counts is two. He's ready to go Yeah, so great stuff here Uh, okay. Cool. Anything else? I mean like again, this is such a positive change Huge stocks in those armies that can they can use this Final note is it doesn't stack with other similar abilities. You use one or the others So like your giants and your ogres still get to use their better Yeah, yeah, it just feels like they probably nailed the The number here for both monsters and and the models and yeah, just right on point It's perfect. It's perfect. Right. Yes. Smash bat is now two models. That's right He is he's not a monster At least I don't think so I don't believe so I don't have to double check, but yeah, I'm like 90% sure I've played the guy multiple times. I still remember Yeah No, he's not a monster. So I thought yeah Which means he doesn't get to use monstrous rampages, which is a shame, but that's a sure. Yeah All right magic Try try try to understand He's a magic man All right So there's some stuff here tyler There's some stuff here Uh I don't even know where to go with this with man This one's so crazy the miscast came out the very first cast by my friend playing zinch last night He miscast in 3.0. I loved it. Yeah This off changecaster with your nonsense Yep So 1911 miscasts they're back an unmodified casting roll of two So obviously you can re-roll your way out of this because again hence earlier re-roll stuff Just like it always has been if you roll a tube, but you have a re-roll for some reason because you're like a contorted epitome or whatever Then the spell is miscast the spell felt the spell fails Regardless of your modifiers. So even if it would have hit it, right? Like let's say you've got plus three to cast Casting value of five You roll the snakes it fails Yep, didn't used to There's some potential exceptions that we might want to there's a toma vise for example Which maybe we get into I'll pull it up while we're talking I didn't want to change the I had the caster duffers and not sufferers, which is funny The caster stranger things the duffer brothers who uh who Created that obviously d3 mortal wounds and most importantly the caster cannot cast any more spells in that phase Whoa Nelly that's a big little change wild So I have here an arrow that says suck it negash Because at eight spells around he is very likely to at some point in that journey Yeah, uh You know get snakes like it's not incredibly likely. It's a 1 in 36 chance. Obviously the you roll snake eyes on 2d6, right? but Well 1 in 36 times 8 right is is actually significant All right comes not like it becomes a pretty reasonably expected outcome at some point during his casting time Yep Right Is rerolling a modifier? No, it is not rerolling is determined before you reach unmodified dice 1.5.5 tenor Uh Now so that's a sort of suck it negash moment right there, right? However on the other hand All right Let's talk about that arcane bolt and mystic shield So mystic shield space will start with a simple one casting value 5 12 inch range now Holy within 12. Yep, right instead of instead of 18 Yep, plus one save great Okay, so a couple things on this. Yeah, I'm obviously negash You can still spam it which is amazing You know in terms of we talked about this the stacking you can still do and it's just you're worrying about the the cap of plus 1 In the ends if you're getting hit with multiple rins, you know, you can spread the love arounds with negash's mystic shields So that's awesome. Could you actually stack? mystic shield on the same unit multiple times have they ruled that out Oh, you're saying in 3.0 with negash if you're negash you can break the normal rules The trick here is negash can cast mystic shield and arcane bolt any number of times in a turn As opposed to the normal castors who are limited at one spell per turn capped, right? So could he yes Could he so he could do it on the same unit multiple times? Yeah As of right now, like again, I mean that could change right as of this exact moment. Yes, right So, yeah, that's that's amazing. But but yeah, I think mystic shield I mean outside of negash Like one thought of my game last night was so I had the choice to go first or second I gave away the turn one thing I could have potentially done was to take first I deployed my castor outside of 30 inches on bind range Could have cast mystic shields on a five with a plus one so four up on two dice Probably would have got that off on a cabbage boom, it's a base two up Then I could move it up Give my opponent the turn even if they double me. I've still got a mystic shield that protection on that double Right with all out defense that I could stack as well Sure In the so that's kind of like one thought that I had last night in terms of a little bit of play with mystic shield Yep So uh fe x to never said max plus one armor save. Yes, correct But negash could layer multiple mystic shields on somebody at the moment or use it and you combine it with all defense and everything You can run as we mentioned earlier in the calculation You can't ever get better in the final counting than plus one But you can have rend protection by running up the clock effectively, right? Yep, you can just run up the score on your enemy. So like okay. I've got plus four to save And you come in with rend three. I'm still at plus one Yeah Okay, that's how that's working. Yeah. All right. So now let's talk about arcane bolt in this nonsense First of all Arcane bolt was fine. It was Fine It was a perfectly reasonable spell It you rolled a number. It was a relatively normal casting value And you did a mortal wound or maybe a d3 on a good roll. Yeah, fine right okay fantastic all of a sudden They had to completely rewrite this spell for just reasons. I cannot fathom So now arcade bolt is a spell that has a casting value of five and a range of 12 If successfully cast At the start of any one phase Before your next hero phase you can pick one enemy unit within range and visible to the caster That unit suffers one mortal wound If that unit is within three inches the caster it suffers d3 mortal wounds instead of one Hmm. What this means is that for most spell caster people Especially spell caster monsters Okay Hmm Then you can basically like think of it not like you're casting an arcane bolt out there, but instead you're summoning a little bull That's just circling around you and at any point in time before the next hero phase you can go Wap and you can hit him with your ball Right. Okay So if you've got a monster mage a monster wizard hero It's actually a pretty cool move To like cast arcane bolt if you know you're going to charge cast arcane bolt You're going to charge into them. You're going to use the monster reaction maybe for a two up Uh d3 mortals and then you're going to unleash your arcane bolt for another d3 mortals And you're going to be two d3 mortals into that unit before you ever start fighting That's cool ever queens. She's coming just day after day. She's coming back Yep charge impact hits monster whatever d3 arcane bolt Now the exception of course is big pop in a gosh Yep, who at the moment can still spam arcane bolt So if he doesn't miscast Which as the the math wizards have said there's about a 20 chance of miscast when you're casting eight spells So not unlikely But if he doesn't he suddenly has eight balls of potential energy spinning around him Yep Okay And obviously he'll auto cast it if he doesn't miscast like he can't actually fail the cast Other than a miscast right because his bonus is high enough. Yeah, sure right Because like he has to roll at least a three and three plus his bonuses means he hit five. Yep If he then moves in and charges, he's also a monster by the way Hmm So at the end of the charge when he impacts your unit, he unleashes his balls And he hits you for 93 mortal wounds just So that's an all-timer sentence right there. He just he just smacks you with all of his balls. It's ridiculous Uh, so that's interesting. I mean it's funny. Sure. It's a funny trick Yeah, I'm not sure that these two balance though like his that miscast thing is going to be such a hindrance to him. Hmm Yeah, what is he 975 right now 975? Yeah Maybe I mean like if he gets it off and goes into combat. Good god Yeah, like he is a beast Right. Yeah, because I mean obviously he's like starting the charge with 93 mortals Is crazy like I do 18 mortal wounds on the impact. Well, most units in an MSU game are just dead. They exploded They're already dead. He doesn't even need to swing a snap. Sure. Right. Yeah Uh, but like even against a super tough unit. He's like if that doesn't do the job, he's still Nagash like his Uh, you know his um his melee profile isn't exactly nothing. Yeah, it's not bad. Yeah Yeah, but well particularly with the buffs that he's gonna have access to now, of course. Yeah, a lot hit me Yeah, he could all attack he could have finest hour on like all that stuff still in his wheelhouse. Yeah Yeah, a lot of times two or a fair number of times Shoes and twos I had to look and see what he is. But yeah, I know he's around like threes and twos or threes and threes Right. Threes and threes. Yeah, so Yeah, pretty pretty wild Yes I you know when you first explained this we were we were chatting a little bit before the show and you explain this and I mean it Uh, my initial reaction was like why which is what you had on your slide. Why is this like this? I've come around a little bit more on it. You know in terms of some of the the play I mean, it's just like prima fascia if I didn't know anything about the other version And I was just looking at this like in 2.0. It's it's it's interesting, you know, there's some tactical play I don't think we needed to do it But yeah, I don't I don't hate it outright I I think that my my issue here, okay is like Why this the core rules is meant to be the simple spells And isn't just like plus one to save and magic gun goes bang Are those just the simple spells? Right, right, right like shouldn't I just have point click boom Magic missile, right? There's a reason I don't like cast magic missile that they float around me for a little while Like it's classic, you know, there's gonna be so many like oh crap I was supposed to do you know one more to wounds, you know 10 minutes into a combat or something sure Yeah, and I mean remember you could also just save this as you can also use this as a porcupine shield Because it's until your next hero phase, right? So Nagash or somebody you can also put this up and then anybody who charges you You can pop it on him in their turn Right, right. It does those balls float around for a while Yeah Might be in range look for a chance to pop another one off and then at the top of battle shock phase Yeah hitting people in battle shock is very funny to me. Yeah Absolutely Simple it is not that's fair Yes, I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying it's not simple and it doesn't need to work like this Like if you wanted to write a spell like this into the game fine, put it in some army book or something Whatever, maybe even it could have been one of the universal spells Right, and I would have been fine, but I don't understand how magic gun go bang Isn't just the very simple basic spell that everyone knows Right, right. Absolutely. Yeah Yeah, I mean speaking of which one is I was looking at it here the arcane tomes Just make sure I had it right. Yeah, that you know universal artifact You can make in a cabbage a wizard could cast this arcane bolt now He's coming in with d3 arcane bolt d3 On the monster and then the eight dies potentially on the on the rampage, right? Like that's that's pretty tasty. Yeah, and and um wilder. Yes. It's at the start of any one phase You can do it Endless spells Okay Big changes to the way endless spells play. Oh boy. Do we have some stuff to talk about here, buddy? So you can move through endless spells, but not stop on them Oh, hallelujah Uh, no more can you cheat stuck stick people in to uh To spaces by shoving random endless spells at them Now I assume some of these will be rewritten to still block Movement probably like the the grippy grippy chains No shackles shackles. Yeah, exactly like maybe the wall or something. I don't know You know, I mean like some of them seem clearly like their intent is to stop movement So those might actually have like an exception written to the new scroll We know they're all getting new scrolls written that we did see in the table of contents of the ghp Right So I assume that they're going to get new scrolls and some of them will probably turn this ability in 19.3 off Which would make sense. I could say that. Yeah Um But normally you can just walk through them. Thank god Although I love that they made the stupid worthless long shanks on giants even more worthless because now it's like what is it doing? Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah Um, you can summon one endless spell per wizard at the start of phase each wizard at start of phase each wizard and priest Can attempt to dispel an endless spell And then the spell cannot be summoned again in the turn that it was removed from play Big difference Yeah, I'm saying difference there. No more just eating a spell and then throwing it back out there and eating a spell and throwing it back Yeah, kairos get out with your nonsense and so many others so many games with kairos doing that crap. Yeah Plus whatever. Yeah, uh, this spelling still works the same as it always had you still need a lot of sight and it's still 30 inch range And it still takes a cast so if you're a three cast wizard You do it you down to two cast Yep And But yeah, I mean it's that's really interesting play now the fact that we can dispel in the enemy phase So geminis is on the table Top of enemy phase you dispel it. Sorry, you're not getting geminis. Right. You're not moving geminis It's just gone for for the for the enemy. Yeah, I really like that It's great I really like it Yeah, these are all very positive changes in my mind legitimately. These are all this is great stuff Yes, please with a cherry on top wonderful Now the reason we have the wonderful bill and ted over here repping wild stallions is because now we need to talk about predatory endless spells Yep, and the spell's gone wild. Here we go. So predatory endless spells are moved at the end of the hero phase both players both players If you have abilities that are used at the end of the hero phase, they are used after All predatory endless spells have been moved Meaning that if those things are going to move over your heroes and kill them They will not get a chance to use those end of the hero phase abilities that might have done something about it But again, there's not a lot of like at the end of the hero phase stuff, but it's relevant. Sure 19.5.1 you determine which are controlled and which are wild An endless spell that is controlled Or it's sorry it is controlled if it's within 30 inches of the model that summoned it A wizard can control only one endless spell per hero phase anything not controlled is wild After control is determined to the player whose turn is taking place moves all of their controlled endless spells Then the opponent does the same Once all controlled or moved then they alternate picking wild endless spells and moving them starting with the player whose turn is taking place Now a slight a slight irony of this Thing here is that it means you can let On your turn you can let a one endless spell go wild And still know That you're going to get to move it. Yep because you have first pick if it's your turn. Yeah Right, so if you need to get it somebody who's farther than 30 inches away, who cares Mm-hmm, right. You can let that spell go wild in the previous hero phase Right like you start it controlled you move it to where you know, it's going to be wild In your then it goes to your turn And you're like you're you're like, okay, great. It's wild But it's gonna be the only one wild spell I get to move because it's my turn I still move online and the wild one I want to be curious to see how it feels as we get games in in terms of whether that Were more than that positive choice Allowing you to do it or your opponent to move that first wild one Yeah, as a as a trade-off but yeah Yeah, no, this is this is good. Yeah Not too sure what all this saying about it pretty straightforward Again at the end of the hero phase. So presumably this is the same where we choose sequencing In case there's anything else It's your turn you get to choose sequencing. Yes. Yeah. Yeah Yeah Well, I mean if cogs new cogs is an indication I'm half excited to have terrified to see these new in the spells Please just fix warp lightning vortex dark fire demon rift Those are really the two I want to see fixed because those two in this new world I am scared as all get out of Yeah, really. I'm terrified of what those could do if they don't fix them. Absolutely. Well, just of course I mean everybody, you know cogs with lumineath right now. I don't know if they exactly need it You know, I'm not sure I would guess zytrek would still stack where they would get their extra spell from zytrek extra spell from cogs And then their base spell Yes, our our good our good buddy martin orlando put a little scenario on twitter earlier to create 12 inch flying 12 inch move flying five up mortal wounding five up after saving Uh, some other buff. I don't remember warden's right. I'm like, yeah, that's what we needed at the game Of course 30 packs of flying alber ears Or pikemen, I guess right. Yeah Yeah, just insane Uh, but yes as long as they fix those real problem endless spells that just like doubling on the damage is horrendous Who cares fine? No issue, right? Yeah Yeah, so cool cool beans. Yeah Uh, okay Priests I have heard from a very wise man who said you do have to pray Just to make it today and uh, they're now a formal part of the game this thing. We accidentally thought of Uh, you know back somewhere in in 1.0 and never bothered to formalize into the game Finally got formalized. So I'm excited about it So many conversations with you over the years of you saying like why why haven't we done this yet? Right, right? Yeah, we we did it There we go. We got there. Yay We done rolled the mission accomplished banner behind me Uh, each priest can chant one prayer. They know we're all dock now Big change one prayer. Sorry corn Okay, so it's One one prayer. Yeah, you get one Not one plus one right No longer our priest just like ripping off 52 prayers You get one. Yeah, you cannot chant the same prayer or more than once even with a different priest Uh, another good limitation Which is fantastic. This really should be a slide that just says a banner. Sorry corn at the top One boil is limited to one Yeah, one blood boil not multiple blood boils. Yep. Wow. Yeah Uh 20.1.1 if you roll a one when praying you suffer one mortal wound. We're all corn now I don't know how that like my guess is in the multiple triggers thing since it's both off the same trigger You would pick this instead of the d3 mortal wounds that some of the corn prayers can All right So I guess corn got a little easier on everybody because like I don't remember how it was but it was like the I remember either the the on scroll prayers or the separate prayers you picked One of them caused one mortal wound and one of them caused d3 And if you rolled a one and I don't remember which one was which so I apologize. It's been a while since I played my corn army Each priest knows two prayers base bless and smite Uh, which bless gives a unit Uh, holy within 12 inches a six upwards eight, which is great and smite has a range an answer value of two and 48 range And if answered you get to pick one enemy priest And that priest suffers one more wound if the chanting roll was a six or more And it is six or more because remember mystical terrain is plus one now Uh, that enemy priest suffers d3 mortal wounds instead of one I missed that part initially. Wow. Jeez D3 yeah, 40. Yeah, that's that's as a heck of a rain. Is she good? Yeah Uh, a away short said did I miss the special guest you did tom was our special guest He had to leave unfortunately. He had family stuff that he had to take care. Yeah But yeah, we only got one to be clear. I believe I but we got one. That was the important part. Yeah, absolutely Uh invocations which are endless prayers. Basically is what we had called them colloquially before they're not invocations Priests can attempt to banish them only priests wizards can't banish them Each priest can only attempt uh can only attempt one invocation banish one invocation. I'm sorry At the start of the hero phase each priest can attempt to banish one invocation within 48 inches They roll greater than the answer value of the invocation Answer value has also been formalized as casting value, right? So just what you have to roll on the d6 to do this thing. Yep. Yep Do you remember offhand what like the I was thinking the corn axe whatever that's called I was thinking that's got a high value. It doesn't answer. I think that's like an answer value of five I'm pretty I remember right the corn The corn and the and the sprayers are like three four five. I think okay. Yeah Yes smite can only be cast against enemy priests. Yes, correct. It's it's a battle of the gods Right like it's who's god is stronger so they can get this little smite war with each other on the table Which is funny to me I actually quite like that. It's a lot better than the 40k thing where smite was just became like this mortal wound machine Yeah back at the start of eight, so right So yeah, no, no, yeah all all good stuff Yeah All right That's that's magic. Let's talk about monsters Mm-hmm. All right So Let's do the mash the monster mash, uh, so More ability to impact the game in general um 18.1.2 as we already mentioned monsters count as five towards objectives And monster actions used at the end of the charge phase Uh, you can carry out one monsters rampage per monster you have you cannot duplicate them So hence if you have more than four monsters the other ones can't everybody beyond four cannot use a monstrous rampage Uh, so There you go. Yeah, I mean these these have been around for a while. We've seen these for a couple a little week or so now What do you think about these? I've got a couple notes here on the screen, but but you know, it's relevant Yeah, I mean I feel like the community we've been talking about these for quite some time now Uh, of course roar really stands out in terms of tactical play Yeah, that ability to pick one enemy unit within three inches of this model roll a dice and a three up unit cannot issue or receive commands In the following combat phase Yeah, that that could be significant in games The yeah, truly a fan of these smashed a rubble one little nuance with that It does not remove terrain keywords. It just removes the terrain feature effects So like a 7th wild you know waking wildwood 7th could still teleport to and from you just wouldn't get your What the lookouts are or not the lookouts are the line of sight blocking You wouldn't get the line of sight blocking or the mortal wounds at the end of the mortal wounds because those are both the scenery rules for it Yes, it removes the scenery rules, which is the stuff that's literally printed up top not the keywords Right that is important Only the giant smash Removes the keywords because the giant smash the gate breaker what he does It specifically says remove all keywords and replace them with scenery rubble Right, that's it like all scenery rules are gone and all keywords are gone. So there you go Yeah Yeah, I mean it definitely seems that monsters are going to be a lot more prevalent in this game and just what we've seen so far in terms of the missions Grant strategies battle tactics, you know, I'd fully expect that there's going to be quite a bit of that in ghp 21 oriented around monsters And yeah, so Yep, absolutely big big fan. Yeah. Yeah, the key thing I really want to drill in for everybody here is remember Roar does not prevent battle shock immunity Okay, because it's only in the combat Phase that they can't yes, if you will receive commands and battle shock immunity is in the battle shock phase Yeah, okay, and unleash hell still works. That's in the charge works. That's in the charge phase. Yep. Yep, exactly Yeah Okay, that's it. That's monsters. They were fast It's a lot there, but it's it is what it is. Okay. Yeah Uh, let's talk about army building because boy. Oh boy. Does this one have a big one? Army construction big changes in the way we construct our lists 25.3 Unit size units are now simply have a size. They don't have the min max anymore. They are just a size They can be reinforced which means doubling the size of the unit once Unless they are battle line in which case they can be reinforced twice tripling the size of the unit Units with the single type cannot be reinforced Which is usually like heroes or frankly any other special thing they want to carve out to keep it as as a min size They can force things into being min sized by doing that That's another really cool thing. Yeah Like if they yeah create a particular unit or like a really special unit, but it's not a hero That yeah, this gives them a tool to keep it going going crazy. Yep. Yep, exactly It actually is really interesting because they could make a unit that would be perhaps overtly powerful in Still like like say you've got Three dudes and it's like oh, this would be really powerful if it was in six or way crazy if it was nine Yeah, right But we can steps we can slap single on it and make sure that never happens Sure. Yep. All right 100. Yeah. Yeah, I'm thinking of like Varengar knights of the empty throne maybe one of the main examples we have of this right now You know where it's kind of an elite unit, but yeah, this exception that you can really make it quite scary. Yep uh Said does the remove scenery features role Have the same proviso as severeth only worse girl features removed not the scenery rules from elsewhere. Yeah, correct It's the scenery rules are what's removed Right and the demolish it's not the keywords, right or or other things that aren't scenery rules, right? So yes Yeah, I looked I kind of find anything else other than the giants that are removing the keywords Only the giants change the keywords and like they literally destroy the thing. It's gone. Yeah yes um And then uh, so the important part here is by the way if they're battle line if yes They could still be then triple reinforced because it just says if they're battle line and battle line If is battle line if you've met the conditions Yep, right. So They don't gain some special thing. We use battle line if colloquially Right, but obviously if Then is what it actually is making a statement of so they are battle line Yep, um, and then 25.5.1 conditional battlefield rules if a unit gains a new role under some circumstance of army construction They lose all old types and gain only the new stuff Which just basically is a formalization of what we knew before So, you know steam tanks with a steam tank commander or another battle liner terror geists are now battle line if they're in blah blah blah blah blah blah Yeah, yep Uh, so yeah, there you go. Um, which is relevant by the way in just a moment Um, we'll we'll see where that actually becomes interesting and relevant One thing I have as a note here is expect changes to minimum unit sizes in ghp 2021 Oh, sure. Yeah, that's like for example, I highly believe chaos warriors Might change from five to ten because otherwise they're captive 15 Right Yeah They have one inch. Yeah 40 mils one inch reach. They're on 30. They're they are on 32s. Okay Well that I mean that's yeah But still you think you think we're gonna see quite a bit of changes in terms of minimum size Uh, yeah, yeah, I mean I don't know I define a lot but so let's take Chain wrasse. What are max max chain wrasse size right now 40? Uh 40 right now. They're 10 to 40, right? So all of those like all of those 10 to 40 units I don't know what they're gonna do with it Yeah, because I could see a light to try let's say to try to maintain a semblance of the horde orientation with night haunts They might go 20 men on chain wrasse max 40 So then you're just spending I don't think they're not maxes. They there's nothing here that said anything about maxes Oh So like if you move a unit to min 20 and it has the ability to be battle liner is battle line All of a sudden that unit can shoot to 60 Oh wild, okay Huh, like there's no rules in here that says re and like There's a single says I can't be reinforced, but there's no exception It would let you just reinforce once Sure, I guess I'm thinking about you know the pitch battle profiles. You would usually you know, you have your max limit with Not present in the current pitch battle profiles. That's what I was gonna just oh interesting. Okay. That is gone It is just a unit now. I missed that. All right. Yep So like you've got like the big questions are all of those 10 40 units There was a lot of these free guild guards skeleton giant rats storm vermin like There's a lot of 10 40s in the game. Okay. Yeah And Suddenly that would become impossible. You could either like either they'll keep them at 10 and they'll be 10 30 Right, right And that's just what they'll say and like yep 30s the cap now just you know, you got to deal with that Yeah Because the problem is if they move them to 20 24 60 Yeah, well, yeah If that's true that the New pattern with the pitch battle profiles in the box Is what we're going to see going forward that I would think obviously they're not going to have them in 20s Yeah, it's going to be 10s to 30s max max 30s Right. Yeah, notably almost everything I've so so just said can only battle line can be reinforced twice. Yes, correct Unfortunately, a lot of the like 10 to 40 units are battle line things. That's what they tended to be They tended to be like the baseline troop right So, yeah, I think a lot of them will just stay 10 to 30 and they'll be like, yep, that's just what it is now Yeah That's fascinating. Yeah, I missed I missed that piece about the the cap not being there with the new profiles Yep so There you go. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I mean, you know my bias bud with all this I mean, I haven't shut up about MSU and and all of that over the years. So love a love variety love Yeah, just seeing more units in the game Uh smaller units blah blah blah, but yeah, that that's that's just a personal bias Like a value statement of whether that's better or worse. Yeah Yep Uh, so, you know, we'll see what happens I think there's gonna be changes Like that's for sure So like I I think they'll keep the 10 to 30 I think they'll move a lot of the fives to tens and just let them also be tens to 30s Right and and that's will probably that'll kind of become the standard That's what I think Not all the fives some stuff will still stay in fives. Like I think the really elite Fivers like stormcast stuff. I think we'll probably stay in fives I was gonna say let's talk about maybe can't say fives and it's just like it's 5 to 15 now That's what it is and we can't have these huge bricks of like a million wounds. Yeah Yeah, I have a hard time seeing even though they're in box of 10 I have a hard time seeing liberators and judicators, you know, both box of 10 Going to min size 10 Maybe that that seems unlikely Right, but yeah So, yeah, we'll see Uh, all right Core battalions Oh boy, oh boy 26.3 Uh, so you can include these if your battle pack says you can You cannot use war scroll battalions the existing battalions. We know of in matched play battalions page Uh, 339 Uh, and these do not affect your drops at all. I saw somebody already do this wrong in a battle report Yeah, right Uh, they do not affect your drops unless they are unified. It's the only unified one right now Is the battle regiment, which is this one right here. Yep. Okay And uh Nor do they give you enhancements we'll get there as to what enhancements means right Unless specified So I've I've the blue and orange arrows here mean something Okay And so the blue is the only unified one these little symbols all mean things the little lord celestine on drakeoth or whatever Mm-hmm. That is the leader any leader Okay and that is uh So that is basically any any leader of any type could be a monster could be anything whatever right Yep This little one This guy the little regular lord celestine dude or whatever is the lord imperator. I'm sorry Is any leader of nine wounds or less? Yeah, yeah, so less than 10 wounds again that 10 wound thing coming up Yeah, these are just troops who are not uh behemoths or artillery So anybody works And then the monster guy is behemoth and the shooter thing is an artillery interestingly, uh It's interesting in armies where you loot. This is really relevant if you lose the behemoth keyword and become Battle line Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like interesting things start happening here all of a sudden Okay uh, so because the specific Under under troops is just unit that is not leader artillery or behemoth so in a gristle gore army, for example Like let's say you wanted to do a battle regiment from gristle gore. You're this this your your special leader could be the uh Gull king on terror geist. Yep. She caught right and the uh The um The regular to regular dudes here can be Regular terror geists. Yep, right But then a terror geist can't fit in this spot down here Because he's a behemoth because he lost the behemoth keyword. Yeah, yep But he but you can use these other three spaces for other terror geists, right? Does that make sense? Yeah 100? Yeah, there you go Which so more or less So the the uh, that original five guys list usually had a arch region in there or jitters Yeah, so yeah, you said an arch region. So you can be the little dude You can have like regular arch region little dude regular gull king little dude Yeah, you know three terror geists troops true people and you're you're good, right? You can do that One drop. Yep. Yep. Now. That's if you want to do it as unified, right? Sure. I'm just using this as an example But you could Yeah, whatever right you can go other ways around um We got uh double jinnies more than double jinnies nowadays Double reggie could see that being a thing. Uh, yeah, let's talk about what I see is the drops Yeah, okay, so you can take multiples of these they cost zero points Okay So In my mind What we will often see Is a four drop using the battle regiment and the command entourage Okay Command on uh command. Oh commander. Yep. Okay because it's any leader Remember you can use little leaders in this big spot in the command entourage. It doesn't have to be 10 wounds or more Sure Okay, it can just be any leader So if you've got four heroes In your army Yep, these two and and no more than one monster or one artillery Right. Yep. Sorry one behemoth or one artillery Then battle regiment plus this would give you a four drop Yeah, and you can fit all your battle line in here theoretically all your troops of any kind in here Plus, you know including your battle line, right? right And Then you become four drop because you go one two three four Yep. Yeah, and warlord plus battle regiment is five drop. So one higher Yep, but they give you the exact warlord and command entourage give you the exact same Benny exact same benes. They're both magnificent which gives you a bonus enhancements Uh and strategists so you gain a bonus command point Which is great. There's a few super good abilities once per game. You can pop that off for yeah bonus cp Mm-hmm. Yeah Yeah, I had to caught that. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, it's it's a fair point. It's about the the drop count difference between Warlords relative with battle reg relative to commander or command. Yeah Yeah, absolutely interesting So like four drops becomes sort of the kind of easy to achieve flat Mm-hmm, right um So that's cool. That's nice. I like that Uh, andrew zucker says you have to what is he saying here? You have to choose for command. You don't get both command entourage. You must pick one of them I don't know. I'm not sure what you're saying there She's saying the the two options there the cp and then the artifact Oh, yeah, no, you're right. Thank you. Yes. Okay. I understand the clarification. Yes, that's exactly correct I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I misspoke there. Thank you everybody. Yeah, absolutely, right Yes, thank you everybody for the clarification. I should have been more clear there That's yes, so you don't get both strategists and the magnificent in command entourage. You have to Oh, right the yeah, yeah, I I apologize everyone. I was very in I was very in discreet with my words there Thank you for the correction in warlord you get both Right in command entourage you pick one. Yes. Thank you my point was I was trying to say you have the option The same options and both I apologize everyone. Thank you for the the Thank you Yes, that's good. I do love the 50 people who told me appreciation It's good now. I understand what you're saying. Yes. Yes. Sorry. I was in delicate with my words there Okay, so I still like this like to me. This is the this is the the combo Yeah, like I like being four drop. I'm gonna take the enhancement Okay, there's lots of ways I have to get one bonus command point like one bonus standpoint is good But there's a lot of ways to get extra command points now Okay, the bonus enhancement is what I'm here for like to me You've got to figure out a way to work warlord or command entourage into your your strat In in most cases because that the bonus enhancement is so good as we'll get to when we talk about enhancements, right? Yeah But I love being unified and going to like four or five drops Honestly, I built a couple armies Like skaven is a good example of an army that can just go pure battle regiment and have everything they want Okay, nice So is that what you read in your first test game? Yeah one drop. Yep. One drop skaven I actually think I was two drop Okay, I think I broke this by one. I had one extra hero outside of a battalion. That was two drop, but still Because I had four heroes total So yeah, it's two drop and First of all, I love the idea that I can be one or two drops skaven like, whoa, what a what a change in the world I was living in like 12 drops before right 100 yeah And like battle regiment is so overwhelming like if you can fit The what you need in your army to win Into battle regiment and you don't need the extra enhancement It is powerful To be able to be one or two drops and you will beat the field Right right because most everybody else will be going four or five drops At the double afforded victory just checking on swift once we're battle one unit If this battalion can receive at the double afforded victory command without the command being issued without the command being spent, okay Um, yeah, we can talk about vanguard in a minute. Yeah, so why do you I haven't really sat down yet and started building too Many lists of different factions, you know trying to think through what what we're going to be seeing potentially In terms of drop count blah blah blah. How much how much are we still playing the drop game? You know as a baseline question. Sure. Do you do you have an initial Guess oh, I want to play drop super hard. I want priority I want priority like a million million times more because I want to decide to go second so I get more command points Yeah, yeah Like oh, we're hard in the drop war I'm living in battle regiment, baby. I'm living in it yeah Yeah, and even if you just do one battle regiment, you know, you get but if you need six troops Well, then your two drop or you need four heroes your two drop, right? Yeah, exactly You need a second monster a second artillery. You still just end up two drop Yeah All right So like what you have to weigh is how much is that in that enhancement? I really think magnificently or sorry strategists. I apologize strategists the one bonus command point isn't working I really do lots of rvs have ways to get bonus command points all over the place There's a prayer for it. There are spells and command traits and da da da da da da da da da On and on and on Okay, like in my invader slanesh. I got 50 million ways to get command points I got 99 problems in slanesh but command points ain't one. Okay, absolutely and So like to me I don't care I am concerned though about drops Like I want that priority decision. I want it real bad. Yeah Okay I can say yeah, I can definitely see a lot of lists wanting that one universal that one extra enhancement Yeah, that key artifact etc. Etc seems like yeah, that'll be a sufficient pool for a lot of lists So it's offset a little bit but as you said at if you're doing the the commander It's a commander commander commands. You're still just looking at a four drop. So that's that's still quite attractive It is. I think that's the other valid way to go and I like like being in four means you kind of get around Uh a lot of like it means you get around somebody who's just running warlord Yeah, warlord is a men four drop, but it can't satisfy your army Like because you can't that's not that's not that's missing a lot of battle line Sure, right. So if you include the second troop and then a third troop, it's suddenly a six drop Yeah, so like You know that like everything else is playing out if you're not living in battle regimen you're playing a high drop game Mm-hmm Yeah, hold on hold on pause Derek sabesta It is not Okay, so I thought they did being lower drop as a tiebreaker for the first round. No Match play rules page 339 outside of the core rules in the basic core rules Yes being a tie the drops only determines on a tie in matched play rules lower drops determines priority It is an overwrite on there So it is yeah, like that is drops determine priority in match play. There we go. Sorry I I had I said that earlier in the show My guess is like you joined afterward. No issue. No problem, brother. Glad to have you. Welcome But I just wanted to make sure that we got that out there So everybody knew. Okay, cool. Go ahead. Sorry. No. Yeah, it seems like a pretty good comment Like I was listening to Russ and Byron, you know Russ was really emphasizing the battle wretch plus warlord that he thought that was going to be pretty common And when I first looked at it as well that that did stand out But yeah, I honestly I didn't miss the the value you've been pointing out with that command entourage Even though particularly with all the ways that you have to I feel like I'm just going to regress Say what we already said we can probably move on to vanguard, but it's uh, it's it's a good point that you know Battle wretch. I think a lot of lists are going to be able to fit Five the five, you know five is plenty in terms of troop slots for a lot of lists I would suspect even with three reinforcement rules, but it's in terms of the hero counts Three is pretty is going to be pretty limiting for a lot of lists. So that's where the the command will come into play What do you think about vanguard? Like I don't care about any of the other ones Grand battery line breaker in vanguard are which are all just three variations on a theme, right? Yeah, they're all like Some hero either the little hero or big hero Yeah, plus three of the basic type of some type right artillery or BMS or whatever So I mean vanguard, you like maybe an alpha strike, you know, if you want to stack vanguard to stack the forward of victory and at the double Benefit where presumably when it well, I mean it's pretty clear when it says You can use it without it being issued. That means you could still issue it in the same phase Correct. So yeah, yeah, like the yeah, let's let's do talk about the advantage because this is a super worthwhile and interesting little nuanced point Right, so let's just take swift because you're you're talking vanguard Okay, this is a we're in the swift ability. So we've got to talk about a delicate set of rules as we go Out of the woods here of all this minutiae You have to have a lot of style to know how to use this But don't worry if somebody gets in an alpha's you you can just shake it off Okay, there we go. I mean, I'm sure it's a way to I mean chuck appreciated. He might be the only one That was literally just for chuck At any rate, here we go so, um The with swift says is once per battle one unit from this battalion can receive the at the double or forward to victory command. So that is the Run six automatically or you roll your charge Without the command being issued and without a command point being spent That means you can use it Not only for free like obviously cool neat. I don't have to spend a command point to do it Like that's that's cool and all that's a good thing, right but uh The relevant part of that is since you didn't have to issue the command you can double up right It breaks the normal rule because the the the rule around command points in six point one Let's just return to return to our rules here, right? in six point one is uh You cannot use the same command ability more than once in the same phase even for different units, right? But because you don't have to issue it. I assume what that's letting it do is break that rule I assume now notably in the six point one text. It doesn't say you cannot issue. It literally says you cannot use Okay, so there is some rule for FAQ there But i'm reading it perhaps incorrectly as the advantage here is it lets you double up on the item Six point one what let's see which very last sentence in six point one The very last okay in addition you cannot use the same command ability more than once in the same phase Yes, even for different units you you cannot use. Yeah, they suddenly use the world as opposed to issue Issue I should be saying right. The trick is this thing is saying without it being issued So the question is is issuing a command the same as using it And I feel like the answer is going to be yes Now we'd still have to be two separate units because somebody still got to receive it Right, and the the same prohibition around receiving commands still happens but but I'm The way I'm reading this and again this feels like something that should be FAQed is that I can use this I can issue the command as normal over here to this unit And they run six and then I can use the swift ability Right and this unit can run six Because I didn't issue the command I will wait on the FAQ before I completely back that but let me say this if that's not the case Then I I really think vanguard line breaker and grand battery are worthless Yeah I mean looking at it. Yeah, definitely seems like they're designed to be stacked if you really want to lean into it You know like three three vanguards Etc. I mean not at least with certain lists. I mean maybe not all of them you're stacking But yeah, certainly that one has a lot of potential. Do you have you sent this one in yet? Otherwise, I'll I'll make a note here. I have not sent this in yet. No, okay I'll make a note for us to add it to a list. Okay. Yeah issue versus use. All right, cool Yep, it's a good. It's a good note Again, I read it that way because like my brain can't compute why I would ever take these Yeah, if I don't have that Right Yeah Uh, vacillus, we will we will talk about those because they they they showed two new core battalions in this year's battle pack for ghb Because every year we're going to be playing in a different realm, which is cool. I'm excited about that and this year's cur um, so Uh, so we'll talk about them when we do the ghb review. I think there's some interesting stuff going on there Um These like if I can't if it doesn't let me double up. I literally don't know what the point of these are Sure. Yeah. Yeah, that seems fair. Like they're just traps. They are just a trap a hardcore trap Yeah So one question is whether we're going to be getting core battalions per battle tone like here's the stormcast core battalions. Here's the I mean the initial understanding that I had of these is that these are you know in the way that we don't have that In 40k attachments, it's all like space marines have their own unique attachments That that we will not but that made me wonder this week with that article that we saw Yeah, so hold on. I do I need to I just want to jump in here real quick Uh, stefan said so sons of behemoth can't take a single core battalion. That sucks. No, no, no, they can't they absolutely can Okay, they absolutely can sons of behemoth can take battle regiments Um, yeah, because you would be you can do it as a two drop So you you need two megas Right and then like some number of babies some number of baby giants Because you have assuming that some of them are in units like somebody's got to be in a unit, right? Right because when they're the the the little guys for you are battle line, which means they lose the behemoth keyword Okay, so they can now be your troops in the same way that the terror guys can be the troops for Gristlebore or whatever, right? So this leader is your mega These two are your or or more are your babies in some combination like you could be your two units of three babies Or you could have like one is a three into three and then one two three four, you know, whatever whatever, whatever, right? So that's all fine. And then the other The other mega Right would have to be extraneous because he's a leader because this is the ameth that isn't A leader. So sure But yeah, you can do it in two drop. Yeah And so, um, yeah, so absolutely, um Yes, you could do it. James said, um Uh, stompers are one drop. Sure. If you run the stomper tribe of the one mega and just like tons of babies Yeah, you could fit them all in battle regiment and one drop it Um, I don't know that there's any actual value to that Um So there you go. Uh, cool All right But just come back. Yeah, do you think that we're going to get the storm cast Equivalent of core battalions and the in their battle zone or my honest answer is i'm afraid. Yes, and I don't I know I don't want it. I don't I know like we this is the beauty of this is you made it simple and created even footing I accept these here and in the ghb Right. Okay. I want them nowhere else Yeah, this seems to be defeating the purpose if that's what we're going to be doing Right, then we're just back in the same place we were before with them making unbalanced battalions Please don't like Like you made core battalions you leveled the playing field keep it level. Yeah Why we'll see we'll see So I'm not going to get too angry because I don't know it's going to be the case yet. So let's hope it never happens. Hey, hey gw Hey, listen to me. Listen to me Don't do it. Yeah, don't do it. Okay. All right All righty enhancements. Oh boy Okay, all of our previous ways to customize our forces are now under one group enhancements and I will be honest I have seen little else in the book cause more unbridled confusion Sure in this section. This section is the worst written section in the book Okay, it just is because it is tremendously unclear On on first read how it interacts with existing stuff in the books How it interacts with sub factions necessarily and yes, I know that they have a little note on there It's not enough. I still had to read it like three times to fully lock it into my brain Right, it's unclear exactly what you get when you get how you pick who gets to pick what I just hate That they wrote this so obliquely When what they should have done Is been way more clear about who gets what where and how it interacts with the existing battle tone stuff And then in the sidebar, they literally should have charted out an example or burned a whole page Right just saying like so for example here is a here is a cap and they should have had a little fun cut from This storm cast battle tone or from some battle tone. Yeah, right? And so they have to select this and this because they're in the sub faction They still get to select a spell or a prayer because the army consisted of a priest and a wizard And they always get to pick one Okay, for their one they're going to take the spell or out of the book Okay, there's there's bell or out of the book. That's their one spell or they select they select, right? And so on and so forth, okay And so just All of that needs to be way clarified like this section needs such cleanup in trying to simplify everything into one Thing. Yeah They really made it challenging. It's my honest answer Okay Yeah, reminds me some of our past discussions about sort of an orientation that requires Rolling exception clauses almost or trying, you know, it's like creating a large set of these The specific types as opposed to just doing something more general In terms of like a category or something. I didn't say that very well, but the yeah, I'm like the what do they call the war chanter? Traits are, you know, are not on here. I guess that would you know, like would you still get your war chanter? Whatever that's called The chance that it does because that's not one of these categories Yeah, right. Sure. It's not it's just a thing they get to pick that's on their Their scrolls. I assume they still get it Right, I guess. Yeah, and I there's no way for me to give them an extra one in any way. Right. So there you go right Okay, so like And and there's all sorts of confusion happening here I can I can see the conversation in the comments, right right now Which is around the unique character. So as I said, you always get to pick one enhancement of each type Plus potential battalion bonuses or whatever else like when I say battalion bonuses I mean if you had the magnificent or whatever that gives you a bonus enhancement So for example, you can pick one bonus You're sorry you get not bonus right you get to pick one command trait your sub faction may decide that for you So you don't get to choose if your sub faction decides it you get one artifact of power Your sub faction may decide that for you. It has to be given to a hero You gain a spell lore if you take You can pick one spell for each wizard in your army From any of the spell lores available to that wizard You can pick different spells from different spell lores for different wizards Each wizard knows the spell that you picked for them in addition to the other spells. They know Taking a spell or enhancement allows every wizard in the army to know one spell from a spell lore So crazy complicated way to say like hey like in your book now How you get to pick a lore or you get to pick a spell because that's going to happen Most of the time you're just picking the spell lore from your book No, you don't have to because there's now going to be a universal table We'll talk about and people might start picking that stuff or if they take a bonus They can pick one off that stuff and every wizard in your army would now get to know one spell From that lore from the universal lore Prayer scriptures same thing very powerful for priests as we'll talk about I don't know that. I won't build a scaven army without a plague priest in it from now on like that dude stonks He's up because you get to know one prayer From a prayer scripture And you can also take a triumph Which is you can only use if your army is less It's still less points than that of your enemy Which means effectively if you build a 2k army. It actually doesn't matter what Uh What your triumph you select is because you'll never get to use it because no one you'll never be less if you're at 2k, right? You're playing in two games enhancement restrictions 27 dot 3 dot 1 very important to mention enhancements cannot be given to unique units See or allied units unless noted otherwise And boy oh boy is that last comma sentence Falling under a really important area, right? Where the named characters can still select a spell lore because it's going to be Because either it already says so in your book or it's about to say so Because clearly they're not going to make the named characters all not have access to the spell lore, right? And that would be an unless specified. Otherwise that would be what one of those things Yeah, there's a sidebar Uh page 35 taking a spell lore enhancement allows every they underline every wizard in the army to know one spell from a spell lore yes But it's led to a lot of consternation because that's in a sidebar and I don't even know if it's on the same Yeah, it's not even on the same page So, yeah, it probably needs to be clarified But I mean it seems like a safe assumption That marathi is going to be able to take a spell from doc or whatever Either because the the exception is already there. It is stated otherwise that they gain access to exactly right Um Or which by the way, I think is why all the cragno stuff just said they have the whole spell lore so they could just shortcut this whole thing Oh, sure. Yeah and the And then with the mount traits, that's clearly a unique enhancement And so I assume that that's still specifying otherwise because it's saying everybody that fulfills that criteria gets to do it So that your named characters can still take mount traits but again Uh I would you know, like I'm sure that with this will be FAQed Right. Yeah, I don't have yeah Because it just falls under unique enhancements. There's no called exception for it There's nothing usually that specifically says, you know, gordrack can still take one of the mount traits or whatever, right? Couldn't name characters takes the lore spells in 2.0. Yes, absolutely I mean they have to because most of them are like multicasters, right? Yeah, okay. So yeah, what I was saying about the uh poorly trying to convey earlier Yeah, it does fall is the as you just said is the equivalent of the unique enhancements. So the war chaner Yes, would fall off would be yeah fix and beat whatever. Yeah. All right, cool Now again, look guys, let's use some common sense here. Okay, let's invoke the power of common sense Do we really think that suddenly all named characters are going to be banned from using their own spell lures? Do you really think that all of a sudden it's going to be the case that like techless can't use any of the spells that we can use all of the spells? No, of course not obviously, right, so So that's going on what they're what they're hedging out there is dull. You can't give unique people you can't give unique people Command traits That kind of stuff, right? Yeah a hundred percent. So there we go Okay, cool beans. We can move on past that little non-controversy. All right Let's talk about the universal enhancements. Whoa Yeah, man okay um, there is a Uh, the universal enhancements. So I've just basically written down the ones I liked But I'll let you I'll let you talk about any others you want you want to talk about The ones that I liked was command traits master or magic once around re-roll casting spelling or unbinding I think with the reintroduction of miscasts. This thing is worth its weight in solid gold Okay, yeah, because you roll that too. Oh Nope Let's go ahead and I'd like to keep casting. Please. Thank you And not take d3 mortal wounds not to mention that just re-rolling spell cast is generally really good. Yeah, a hundred percent Uh and re-rolling unbinds is like super powerful because you're just like did I get it? Nope. I'll try again You know, right? artifacts, uh five plus ward save. Whoa Hello Keeper of secrets Uh mega I'm in I'm in like flin baby. Yes My cabbage bad the the the the um Sorry the the uh mega boss on mawcrusher. Oh, yeah, he's back with a five up ward That's what I had last night. Yeah Uh, so many great things happening here My made my made up rolls for derpy that you saw. You don't have to use those anymore He's got access to five up ward now. That's right. That's right Uh excited about the presence of this thing. It's going to be a popular to select Um, like this is the artifact more than anything that makes me want to go for drop in the uh into the like command slash battle Thing. Yeah, just so I can get this artifact Like one out of my book and this good Star drake. Oh, I can't wait to see the new rules on Because I really make star drakes good. Oh, please and then if they can then take a five up ward on top. Yay Well, of course, they were amazing in 2019 It just seemed the the community didn't especially appreciate it. And then we saw what our friend did at nash con and I started playing it and uh They're they're yeah, they're they were pretty good with the four up filipin for the four boards as it were But yeah, I took that away but and then obviously the arcane tome Where you can become a wizard or gain plus one spell just a cool way for armies that don't regularly have Access to wizards or something like that to get them a wizard. It's kind of interesting It's an interesting artifact for reasons we mentioned like for otherwise melee bruisers who want to charge in You could just like take the arcane tome and have arcane bolt So you can just have an extra d3 mortals on the charge Just kind of you know, it's cool. Kind of Things like that'll be a popular one. Yeah It's like the old wizard hat an eighth edition if you remember that Uh It's the spell lore. Um all three of these have some kind of gas in the tank. Honestly Sure. Yeah flaming weapon casting value four plus one damage to one of the casters weapons Right. Not just one Plus one just one. Yeah, just one one weapon Uh, oh somebody said dwarf wizards and was really excited. Yeah, how about corn wizards? Uh, like unless there's something that says corn can't take the arcane tome You can have corn spellcasters now. So there you go Which is cool Levitate casting value eight eight Eight That's rough. Yeah, but you can make a unit fly I am very excited aos after six years finally got flying pigs. Sure the pigs will fly If you want to roll them bones on getting that eight out there, you can do it Yeah I my honest answer is everybody's all excited about levitate. I think it's a junk spell Casting value eight is too high. Yeah Like unless you're somebody who has like plus two and re-rolls. I'm not banking on an eight. Yeah. Yeah, that is a hard cast Yeah Yeah, it'd be nice if that were like just a I don't know, but you had a base six I don't know might be a little too power at least a seven but maybe a six in terms of country I like it being out of range like this because then you can't bank on it as a strat I think that's exactly the right number. Well, I mean, I was gonna say like Not everybody has fell bats or ether wings or blah blah blah in relation to the shell. Sure. Sure. Sure I mean running iron jaws last night. I didn't have any options to fly over. I mean, yeah I mean, I could have tried to do levitate. I guess but yeah on a on an eight flying pigs But then you're trying to land these big oval bases You know, I really screw up. Yeah to the line to get within three inches of some flamers being screened off But sure anyway. Yeah, I was thinking about it in terms of I could I could see an argument for seven if it was Like sure, you know, you kept it really tight But sure And then ghost mist ghost mist is actually the one I'm super excited for Everybody's talking about flaming weapon. Yeah, I love ghost mist Yeah, I've heard a lot of negativity around this one. I mean, it seems pretty solid I mean ghost mist is pretty solid Okay casting value five Six inch range. So yes, it is a short range Okay, but it's just within six and you don't obviously have to fit wholly within because that would be, you know, impossible right because you're targeting a terrain piece and Pick one terrain feature within range and visible to the caster Until your next hero phase visibility between two models is blocked at a straight line one millimeter wide Drawn between the closest points and the two models pass across more than three inches of that terrain feature This effect does not block visibility to or from models with a wounds characteristic of ten or more Mm-hmm. I actually really like the ability to just like take a piece of terrain You've got some folks huddling behind And just be like nope that's obscuring now, but with the way the thing we wanted Yeah, right and it blocks line of sight and your shooters can't see me unless you go way around like this I think that's a strong ability I think it's a strong spell on or on a very reasonable casting value Yeah, yeah, that's another one that you can plan for so you're deploying Yeah, you're deploying you're choosing a nice terrain piece decent size Maybe you've got the option to go first. So you decide to go first You know, it's kind of what we were talking about with mystic shield doing that out of unbind range You're maybe doing this out of unbind range for reliability Five is pretty easy plus one really easy Uh, yeah, no, I dig it. I'm the that's not a bad range within six No, it's not really it's fine. Yeah, especially when you're thinking about how you're using it, right? Like as somebody who's often played to spoilers Okay, which has a very similar ability right like after you move you can touch terrain and make it block line of sight Right, it's within six inches. Um, I've never had a problem being able to be like that Yeah It's fine Like six inches is actually pretty generous on hitting terrain, right? So yeah I mean, it's also it's a spell so potentially if you have a hero phase teleport Teleport and then pop that off. Yep. Yep Um prayers, uh, I like both two prayers I really like curse which has an answer value of four Very short range nine inches, but you can target enemy unit any natural hit of six against that unit Causes a mortal wound in addition to everything else in addition Purse is really good. Whoa Like you got to be up in the business to get that curse on them but, uh Yeah, that's good Yeah, I feel like we've maybe seen a fair amount of that Yeah Heal answer value three range of 12 one friendly model within range d3 heal. So it's okay I didn't write it down, but it's okay. Uh guidance answer value five gain one cp Honestly, that would be my default Yeah, okay, like if I like curse is really good But if I had a priest that I didn't think was sort of capable of being that close to the enemy I would just take guidance and hope for mystical Sure Because every round that's just like a five up I gain a bonus command point or four if there's mystical terrain mystical. Yeah. Yeah Right, like that's worth what like if a plague priest in scaven stays pretty cheap because he's like 80 points now He's cheapest chips Okay, if he stays super cheap Uh, like let's say he only goes up to like 90 points or something And I throw him in all the time throw guidance on him and just be like yep Do your business buddy. Just go nuts All right, all right, just go ham Right Yeah, good thing curse is a range of nine. So it doesn't allow for setups. So that's that's a good catch all those equal I mean, maybe if you have an exception some way, but yeah, absolutely. Yeah Yeah, I still like triumphs I mean the fact that you could play for being under your opponent and then have that as your extra You could take your baseline triumph and then an extra triumph. Oh, and they're good now They're real good re-roll charge, which as we said, you can only do once in the phase with the command point So having a second one is potent immune to battle shock Which you can only do once in the phase through the command ability So having a second one is potent and plus one to wound which is not a super common buff There's plus one to hit all over the place, but plus one to wound not as much so again Yeah, three triumphs all the three triumphs are like potent Yeah Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I see some list definitely leaning into going double triumph and We'll see what the average is in terms of you know, like looking at tournaments What I think our prior was if you were 1970 you are really gets place for getting a triumph. Yeah, sure Yeah, the percentages. Yeah, so it'd be interesting to see what what it becomes in terms of trying to go for double Triumph. Yeah, these are all and and they're infinite range Like there's no They happen you do. Yeah. Yeah, no hero. No trigger. No nothing like that. Yeah. Yeah Yep Connor Armstrong said can a unit that does mortal wounds on sixes to wound i.e. like most of the slanesh range Get the curse benefit to yes because the curse triggers on hits The slanesh thing triggers on wounds So they're too separate like you'd roll your hits out Pull out the sixes. Those are mortals or whatever like that's that's bonus mortals And then you roll your wounds and then those are mortals So yeah, um being able to being able to uh throw it like slanesh doesn't have any priests by default unfortunately, so You'd have to ally in I don't even know what you could ally in Is there a nergal priest? I know I'm thinking you can't ally in the corn priest Not that unless for some reason like sloppy bio piper or Scrivener, I don't think they're by the way in case that he doesn't know on on the war scroll app You can literally type in a keyword and it will show you all instances of that keyword So like just so everybody knows this in the aos app if you just type in totem or a priest It will actually show you all of them, which is really oh really. Yeah. Yeah There you go. Yeah, because like the corn priest is a priest, but you can't ally corn into slanesh Um, right, right. Yeah, there's nothing. Oh the regular chaos war shrine is a priest. There you go Do I I'm sure. Yep. Thank you. Everybody's saying it in the chat while I was looking. Yes, the regular Thank you everybody. I was behind there. Okay, cool. Yep. That's the best option Basically the only option. Okay Uh Glutos has a priest, but he doesn't have the priest keyword. He's just got like He's got like he has some person who's clearly a priest on his thing And he's actually like has the name like priest of blah blah blah, but And who basically prays, but it isn't he doesn't have a priest keyword Hmm. Okay Cool beans All right We got we got we got to do this bud. We we got 16 minutes to come under the cap of four hours All right. Here we go matched play Oh, there's actually not that much more to talk about Because it doesn't change a whole lot of stuff. Sure. Yeah All right matched play. Um So no, here's the here's the modifications to the base rules No single unit can be more than half your points total Faction terrain in general has to be set up three inches from all other terrain and objectives You have grand strategies and battle tactics. We'll explain those in just a second And obviously we've already talked about reinforced units and what reinforcing is you could reinforce up to four times In a 2000 point game Okay, obviously I like that the new chart has 1500 in it. That's great We play a lot of 1500 point games here at my house because we do a lot of like Two on two with 15 our points Yeah, each so 3000 is 3000 effectively, but two players two players 1500 We do a lot of a lot of triumphant treachery style matches with like Three players with 15 our points. So I'm happy to see an actual chart for that. It's cool. Nice. Yeah And The So the grand strategies there are three You pick one at the start of the battle And at the end there were three victory points and all the they are just they just are that's the universal thing Okay So you have sever the head which is no heroes from the enemy army left alive You have vendetta which is slay your opponents general While your general is not slain And you have hold the line which is any battle line units from your army survive Okay, yep Battle tactics, I'm not going to go through all of them here The important part is you have to pick one at the beginning of every round on my little cheat sheet that I made here Uh, that all like I said, I'll I'll print this out. I made I kind of talked about what they are I don't have them written in full rules text I just have like you'll still need to you still need to look at the actual rules to get it This is just reminder text Okay So, um, if somebody wants to rewrite this or whatever whatever totally fine, okay Uh, so but that's like destroy an enemy unit in the opponents territory destroy an enemy starting unit Take control of an enemy objective destroy an enemy unit in or partially in your territory Have more friendly models than enemy models within six inches of the center or slay the model chosen to be the enemy general Chosen to be the enemy general right So there you go Uh, tyler hit me thoughts on the match play stuff Yeah, I'm uh, gratitude. I mean it does strike me that we may see these customized per battle tone So, yeah, you know storm cast will have their set Uh, or at least battle tactics. I don't know. I mean that might be something that's more in the ghp 21 You know, we'll get more along those lines Yeah, I I I don't know. I I think it's the grand strategies The hold the line seems like often that may be the easiest one there Uh, but you know, that's a great example of where we're seeing heroes once again coming to play Uh, with how significant those are at three points each Yeah, so Oh, by the way, the game I played I won because I completed my grand strategy and the enemy didn't Oh, nice. So which one did you take? Which one did they have? Uh, I took vendetta, uh, which was, uh, And and yeah, that's it worked There you go. My general still alive, which was that vermin lord, uh Whips here or whatever. Mr. Unkillable. So I was like, I'm good. This dude's going to live Yeah, absolutely Yeah, so Oh They're they're interesting Like I said, I've only got one game in so far. I don't have a really good feel for them But it definitely changes the nature of our match play games a fair amount now And of course the I don't know if you've covered this but the three battle plans that we got in the book Have gone to the 40k 9 style baseline Where you get one point if you hold an objective You get another point if you hold two objectives You get another point if you hold more than your opponents. Yep And then two points if you have your If you complete your battle tactics, which means over the course of the game you can math that out, right? You have 15 maximum points from objectives You have 10 points maximum from battle tactics and three points from a grand strategy So your perfect game in all of the three scenarios that are in the base book and again I don't I don't know what the ghp is going to contain there could be other You know alternative things going on right in the the core game three battle plans 28 points is your perfect game That's you scored max every round All your tactics you hit every you know every time and you got your grand strategy in the end Yeah Yeah, I don't have a good feel for it yet, but it it seems like there's yeah a real real chance of it being a net positive You know, I mean, it's like this obviously reminds me of the schemes. It reminds me of tournaments that Depticon has secondaries tertiaries And and they're meaningful at a Depticon a lot of tournaments, you know aos over the years We've we've had a system kind of like this where it's not just about going after the primary objectives And that that was the thing I always loved about schemes in ash con is because we put the point value Where we david in particular point put the the value so high on getting that secondary Yeah, that I find this to be a little simpler than 40k system You know, I really like the one you got one battle tactic Yeah, this is I like this so much better than 40k system like it's very straightforward And I will say like again, I used my cheat sheet when I played and it was very easy to just like go Okay, I use that one. I use that one. I use that one and start marking them off Like again, this is one of those things is going to be really annoying if you're flipping through the book And you don't have a cheat sheet Right Yeah, so like I said, you can find the link down below for the cards from I'm sorry who made them tyler Please give presents. Yeah, Andy long. Yeah And that has a lot of this memory information and then I'll pull all I haven't I haven't uploaded my cheat sheet to To google drive yet, but I'll do that and open it up and then I'll put the link down there for that too So people can grab that And by the way, if somebody wants to take my horrible horrible ugly cheat sheet and make it look pretty As I'm because like I am not a graphic designer. I'm really not As that as that ugly ugly sheet proves I'm perfectly okay with it. Knock something out Maybe we could work with Andy to whip up something a little a little yeah We're pleasing to the eye, but yeah, you've got you've got a lot of it. You got the keys covered there It has the basic information. I was delivering information. That's the key Yeah, totally it might be worth the conversation I mean we can talk about this but you know kind of or maybe some others going through looking at the set of roles And you know, maybe there's some other things that would be good to call out on another cheat sheet Where it's like, you know, how dispelling works and you know, try to try to get to the core of what may be difficult to remember At least early on in the game because there's a fair amount going on now. Sure. There's a what you're juggling the The um the cheat sheet I used with my slanesh army because there were so many triggers of various kinds in invader slanesh The cheat sheet I used forever was a Was reliance cheat sheet he shared on twitter that I saved the picture of Proud of the picture out This is like way back in the day I printed his literal picture out that he had taken And that's what I kept with me So it was like a print of a twitter picture that I had saved. It was ridiculous What was on the what was on the cheat sheet? I'm curious now Oh, it was like, you know, because it's such a so many different triggers Like you need to remember that one of your generous invaders you get a command point When does the rod of mess rule trigger and you have to prick yourself on the feign and like There's just a lot of very like timing oriented triggers in slanesh. So right on I gotcha. Okay, cool. Nice Anyways, so thanks reliant. I appreciate you sharing that that I could then steal Yeah, definitely. I was gonna say something else, but uh, it's escaped me. I'm not sure Somebody asked what was what are under strength units under strength units just means you take less than the actual minimum number in there So for example Let's say you don't want to deal with six pigs coherency You got three pigs in a unit you reinforce them once to get six pigs And you don't want to deal with the fact that now all of a sudden you have to deal with coherency. Okay, just take two You spend the same amount of points Yeah, do you have one It's not so under strength. It's not you have to start at the minimum size And then go down. Can you actually increase the size beyond the minimum and then go down? That's a good question. I assumed yes, but that's a good question. I assumed it was repeatable Let me look. I don't know if it actually says anywhere in there how it defines that Yeah, we'll look Yeah I'll I'll take a look. This is probably something for later. But anyways, yeah, I do not remember off the top of my head Yeah, it's a real good question. You're asking there, Tyler. Yeah I I thought it was meaning you just take less than the minimum but you might you might have got you might have called me out there number two Another little thing just as a thought I had in the notes here, you know the what is it heroic leadership for the four up command points from the heroic actions That you know, if we if you can take like your Brat prints that you're probably going to be running and annoying everybody with You know you go suicide that dude. Yeah, good old critsa Yeah, good old critsa just go suicide him because I didn't I don't think the heroic actions Specified it comes back to what we talked about earlier in terms of are the named as general is going to be eligible for that Heroic leadership, right? Because if it is and you just go suicide that guy and now you're out of two up for the rest of the game Right. I think it has to be your chosen general is dead. But sure like that's it's worth an FAQ. Um, let's see Reliance says I had a very detailed slinnish chi chi. You did it was great I got many many much good uses out of it Cold shoulder says does summoning five wolves from veer coast count as an understrength unit? No Because this is only for army construction You do not have to heed this stuff when you're summoning Okay, so for example um You if you like I'll just keep going with slinnish since it's an easy thing I was on the top of my head I summon in 30 I could summon in with 12 depravity 30 daemonettes that That doesn't take reinforcement points like I can just I could have already spent all four reinforcement points Summon up 30 daemonettes. It's cool. This is for army construction only Summon units dodge these restrictions Yeah, I don't uh one other thing Whether allied units can be included in core battalions. I'm guessing they can But I didn't remember seeing anything in the rules that's specified. That's the case. I will have to look I don't remember if it says so or not. Yeah, okay I have that on the list and I saw that they still had the one and four Allied units limitation. I believe for match play. Sure. And yeah uh Oh and also, yeah Folks give some love to Our friend at aos reminders because he's got a lot of work ahead of him. Oh, sure. Actually, no boys You know one time Uh, and then let's see, uh, I think we answered all of the questions Yes Oh, there was somebody who said Uh, what was the darn it? I saw it and then it went away Nope, okay, uh, but there was a question there of uh, do we have any big winners or big losers in the in the addition? Because this is the end. This is the last slide This is it. Sure. I was we should do a show on that Yeah, I think that's going to be a whole show of really We can get let's do just do a brief very high level Again, we only really have a third of the picture because we still need the pdf updates for all the armies that are assumingly coming like day one Or close to and we still need to see the ghp points And that's going to determine a lot of winner and loser stuff, right? Now before we get into this right here, I just want to remind everybody hit like Please do it helps every other people find the show. So please hit the like button Uh now as to the immediate winners or losers sure I've got a couple tyler if you want to think like I said my stonks are high on scaven Scaven have a great mix they fit into the the in my opinion the best battalion the unified one easily They can also easily drop into the the they can take the second battalion so they can go one two or four drop Very simple and have everything they want in their army. They will still be set up Probably to have 40 man units one assumes We'll see we'll see how that works. I don't know That could be changed it could be clan rats go down to 10 and maybe I can only go up to 30 Which I wouldn't hate that then you know the points would assumingly Play around accordingly um I think vermin lords are one of the best leaders in the game in the new rules They're monsters. They're heroes. They benefit from heroic actions monster actions The self heal on a bravery 10 model is top-notch. They're wizards So they can benefit from a lot of different command stuff. They're great War up base ward The five up. Yeah, they have a five up ward save base And the warps here can reroll spells. They can be great targets to cast flaming weapon because like the warbringer can do great damage the the choppy choppy pestilence guy can do a lot of damage So good to crumptor. Yeah the crumptor moving his his like 1,000 shots up to to uh to damage two or it is pretty scary Yep, I really my stonks are high on scaven. I think giant sons of batemot. I've got a lot of stonks on them They are huge beneficiaries of a lot of this stuff. Yeah, uh, so Uh, yeah, I think that's that's real strong. I like both of them real hard Yeah, no, yeah, those are good Luminath definitely stands out. I mean Luminath is already obviously really strong But there's certainly they don't appear to be getting any weaker with with 3.0 between sentinels and Iliatha appears to be really turned on. I mean you really see that With your triple spell casting with cogs. Yep. Zion trick. Yeah. I mean there's there's so much yeah, just Players who really know how to play Luminath and just terms in the combos that you can do with that book now Tech that techless can do with the teleport spell and They tricks you can do with alumnia in terms of lambda light like running up I saw a really nice play with Jordan with incidentally with alumnia where you know pregame move 14 inches lord regent Uh, get in range to do lambda light on a key target outside potentially of unbind range and then run them back Into your lines in the movement phase Yeah, really cool tricks like that. Uh, so yeah, hi, Luminath. So by grave lords, you know in our review like the community That's been a lot of negativity say around that book and it obviously was a book written for 3.0 It seemed like yeah one it was going to really benefit when we see the lens start seeing the landscape and yeah I mean they strike me as uh, they're going to be quite solid again good players running those those armies Yep It's a bias, you know, lori said everything today about and in his article on on Sylvaneth I legitimate like jokes aside. I legitimately think that Sylvaneth is getting turned on In a meaningful way with 3.0 right now. Sure. Yeah, I think that plus what they got in crag knows does does change the game on them Yeah, yeah, and it would take yeah an hour to go into all the details about why with the tree with trees but there's a lot going on the main thing they were cp starts and Magically, they're not anymore. There you go. Yeah People that obsess on our potential losers again. All these are potential winners potential losers kind of who we're high on Who we're low on right now? Yeah, I think corn Is it is potentially coming out? Rough here. Yeah I'm not sure I'm seeing anything that's helping beasts of chaos any big way their Coherency rules hurt them. They got a lot of 32s They have tons of people on low bravery and a lot of susceptibility to battle shock and now all of a sudden They can't protect everybody anymore. They can protect one person They don't have a lot of big bubble battle shock Protection that feels like an army that not only needs to get an early book, but we'll probably get an early book Yeah, one would assume it's just it's crying out for it, right or praying for it. Maybe one might say Uh, yeah, so I I think those two or two of them that jump out at me as you know potential losers But again, those could get books or things could change. We could see stuff in the pdf Yeah, you know there gets stands out of my mind right now Yeah, gets is interesting It's gonna be all about what those a lot of a lot of unit size stuff looks like they lost a lot of their negatives to hit That kind of survival trick, but at the same time They did get some real interesting new tricks in there as well So gets is more of a wait and see for me honestly. I can see that. Yeah Yeah, what about slinnish? What what's your feeling on them right now? Neutral to negative Probably You know, there's there's there's a lot of stuff going against us Uh in slinnish already, you know, the keeper getting worse isn't great Okay Um, glutos is still a boss even without his, you know, whatever he still has like his big blanket neg one sure it caps neg one But it's still there. It's out there solid. Yeah, right. Um, you know the It's Neutral to negative is what I'd say. I mean, we don't really have the shooting to take advantage of unleash how in any meaningful way Like no one's not charging because they're gonna get bliss bar archer shots. Like, okay, man, whatever beans So it's you know, you're losing your six inch pile in losing a six inch pile in. Yep, exactly Yeah, yeah Yep Cities, I mean cities is one of the ultimate toolbox armies, of course I would I've been really taking a look but I would gather that they should Yeah, my feeling is always cities can withstand almost any shock to the system Yeah, they're so big and so robust and have so many options It's almost impossible that they fall out of like a solid mid-tier performer. So Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it feels like fire slayers have to see what the unit size looks like Of course Lord of the Lodge is going away. That's a huge deal But yeah, that's not army kind of have to have to see there's a lot to talk about grungney So maybe we'll get that keep Five, please that would be great Then go five ten fifteen only. Yep. I'm down for that Yeah, there we go. I think that's everything. All right, Tyler. I think we hit it all buddy We've been going about four hours. So we did it Four hour show whoever predicted four hours. You were right All right, so there we go. We're going to be back if uh next week I'm not sure exactly what we'll do if we have all the ghp stuff We're going to do the ghp next week and do part two That would be great if we have it because then how we can stack this Should hopefully be like that that and then the sort of pbs and everything will work out. Well, we'll see We'll see how it all comes together Um, but anyways, we hope you join us again next week. Thank you to everybody who is here big audience today You are all awesome Don't forget to give this a like if you've got any questions about stuff that we talked about or you think we missed anything I hope we literally covered every change every implication every rule and did it all in four hours Please drop those in the comment subscribe. Obviously if you haven't already but as always We'll see you next wednesday