 Mr. Daniel Higari there, speaking, giving his briefing, some very significant information coming out of that briefing. Most importantly, information about how Shefa Hospital was used, not just in the military sense, orally this evening, the IDF exposing a tunnel that was found on entrance to one of the so-called terror tunnels found underneath Shefa Hospital. But footage taken apparently from the security cameras there in Shefa Hospital itself showing Hamas terrorists bringing into the hospital at least two hostages, one of the Nepalese workers and Thai farm workers taken there, being taken in by force. One man was brought in on a stretcher, but this other individual was brought in apparently on his own feet and apparently trying to resist and being brought in by force. So really we're shocking footage there. And moving on, last week's rally that brought almost 300,000 people to Washington to support Israel in its battle against Hamas and demand the immediate release of hostages featured many moving and powerful moments. But there is something of a common consensus that the most powerful speech that was made there was by Rachel Goldberg, who also spoke last month at the United Nations. She is the mother of Hirsch Goldberg, Pollan, who was wounded and kidnapped in Togasa from the Nova Music Festival on October 7th. He like his parents immigrated to Israel from the US, so he is also a US citizen as well as Israeli. Well, joining us now is Rachel Goldberg, the mother of Hirsch Goldberg, Pollan. She's back in Tel Aviv. Rachel, thanks for joining us. I just want to get your immediate reaction to the stuff we just played here, released by the Israel Defense Forces, showing how Shifa Hospital was used. You can see on your screen, hostages would be forcibly dragged into that supposed medical facility by Hamas terrorists on October 7th. You spoke quite a bit and quite powerfully at that rally about what the world has to see and has to admit to seeing. I just want to get your reaction to this. To be honest with you, I did not see that footage, and I'm not watching that footage, so I can't give you a reaction to it. All right, I'm sorry, I didn't want about the hospital being used there. Well, let's talk about what you had to say, first of all, at that rally in Washington and very powerful because it was not just a speech to the crowd, to the Jewish community, but a speech to the world, and your thoughts on that and the reactions that you've gotten to that. Well, my real issue is that the hostage issue is a global humanitarian crisis because it's comprised of people from nearly 30 different nations, and it's comprised of people as young as you know, as nine months old, up until 87 years old, that it's comprised of people who are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist. It's clearly not something that's just specific to one place, and I think that the world should be crying out that this is something that we don't accept, that all of these nations that have people who are currently being held underground should be bonding together, and there really should be a worldwide outcry that this catastrophe should be addressed. Even in the most basic way, forget about the fact that obviously everyone would like their loved ones to come home, but in the most basic way, to have access to global humanitarian aid, to know that these elderly people who need medical treatment, the children who we know need medical treatment, people who were at that music festival celebrating light love and peace, like my son, who had his arm blown off, who's critically wounded, would have treatment and be seen. It's been 44 days, none of us have any idea if our loved ones are alive. If they are alive, are they being treated well? Are they being treated as we would hope that they would be treated? No one has any information. And that was really the thrust of the speech was saying, where are you, world? Where are you? And I know that it's scary for the people who are in Gaza who are innocent civilians, but I'm sure that there are people who do know where these hostages are. You cannot hide 238 people. It doesn't work. So people know where these hostages are, and I'm sure it's terrifying for them. But I'm hopeful that somebody will come forward and say where they know where some people are and save some lives. Now you were there in Washington, obviously you were, you've been earlier in New York at the UN. What are the reactions have been? Have you been able to meet with officials? Have you heard? Have you had these discussions? Some of those people that that speech was directed to? Listen, we've met with every single person we possibly can. We've spoken from leaders all over the world. We've spoken to ambassadors from all over the world. And most importantly, I would actually say we've spoken to human beings from all over the world. We realize that just getting support and getting feedback from people from far flung places from all different religions, from all different backgrounds, saying we don't accept this. This was not in our name. We don't agree with what's happening. And we are with you. That has tremendous power. We are in anguish and despair along with 238 other families. And to have people from all over the world show support is helpful. We would now like for action to happen. And all we can do is hope and pray that the entities that are trying to make that happen can figure out a way to do what needs to be done. Nobody likes to compromise. That's the nature of compromise. Nobody likes it. Everyone has to be uncomfortable. Well, let me ask you about that a little more directly because then we did have this March over the weekend, of course, of the forum for the families. Up to Jerusalem meetings that was reported that this evening they did meet with some of the leaders and the figures in the government and perhaps even reports that maybe this evening it might include Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Defense Minister. Tomorrow the Knesset is going to have its actually first official event focused on the hostages. So also your thoughts on your messages there also to the government here. And I guess to the public because some tough choices might have to be made in the coming days. Listen, I'm not a strategic political, you know, God, a big knowledgeable person in that realm. I'm a mother. I would like my only son to come home. I think that we place a tremendous value on life. And therefore, we often pay very dearly for our loved ones. And I would hope that we would pay sooner rather than later because there's no reason for us to continue suffering if we are ultimately going to pay a price. Alright, Rachel Goldberg, of course, our most fervent wish is the return of Hirsch Goldberg, Poland, back home with all the other, of course, hostages being held in the Gaza Strip. Thank you for joining us on I-24 News. Thanks very much. And joining us now in studio was Reserves IDF Major General Eitan Dango, the former military secretary to three Israel Defense Ministers and the former coordinator of government activities in the Palestinian territories. Still with us in the second hour, Guy Azrael, the senior editor of I-24 News. Eitan, I have to start with the material that came out of the IDF today, confirming so much as what has been said, I'm thinking specifically of the tunnel that was found inside the grounds of Sheifa Hospital, the entrance to an extensive attack tunnel that we don't even know the dimensions of at this stage still. But also, even maybe beyond what the IDF was saying, that security footage from the hospital that shows that hostages were brought into the hospital after October 7th, and were murdered there, were brought by force, it's there on, obviously, the security footage that was taken from Sheifa Hospital, when IDF troops were able to take control there. I think that after two weeks that the IDF spokesman brought on behalf of the IDF the effect that hospitals and medical service is used as a part or a wing of Hamas structure, which is killing, murdering and using for planning, for killing, for organizing themselves before going to operations outside against murdering Israelis, luncheering and other things up above the ground and under the ground, I think he claim it and we will wait outside of few hospitals in order for one thing to live, to show to the world evidence, because this is the story of Israel. If you put their soldiers from France, UK, United States or Arab countries, and that was the case, that the guerrilla who butchered their civilians are hidden there and organizing from dead places, their activities, they would not wait for one second. Our nation has to wait to explain, to bring proof, to bring a correspondence inside and et cetera, et cetera, and then the IDF is going inside. What we missed, we risked our soldiers' life, we made operation that a lot of terrorists escaped, few of them went out with the civilians were allowed to move back to the south, et cetera. So from the top that he's saying Hamas, I think that tonight is one thing, Israel's strength is, I think, is way that what we are telling to the world is prove again and again about our rights. And it's time to understand that if this butchered organization will not be destroyed, will not be killed, will not be immediately reacted towards them, all the world will suffer not from Hamas only, from others. But to our story, for our story, I think that it's the third time already. If you remember the second day of the war, what was Israeli blame that they killed 500 people in the hospital? I just want to say right on screen now, this is a gunman who were guarding outside one of the rooms where one of the hostages were taken, as we said before, these specific photos relate to both the foreign workers in Israel, Ty and the Nepalese foreign workers. And by the way, I'm sure that other proofs will be shown to the public in the coming days because there are things that are not shown, there are things that are collected by intelligence investigation. And we need it because we are fighting, we are destroying, and between it we are making all the efforts to release and to find alive the hostages. So when you combine all together, you see in what difficult conditions our soldiers and the commander are acting while there is murderers underground that are going outside luncheering, anti-tank missiles, and all the stories about these petty people that are working, some of them from the staff, not all of them, are kind of a corporation, giving cooperation to Hamas and a wing of this organization. Right, right, right. You can almost see us, it looks like a staff worker in this at the end sort of throws his hands up in frustration or disbelief in seeing what's happening there. I'll stay with Isaac and I want to just jump down south and go to our Zach Andes who's in stereo and Zach, some traumatic footage coming out now from the IDF, from a Shifa hospital really as a result of that fight, you know, the necessity of securing those grounds in and around Shifa. But as our guest in studio was saying, coming at a cost, delaying delaying that to sort on Shifa, perhaps enabling some of the Hamas terrorists and their hostages to escape to other parts of the Gaza Strip. And some of the video that we've seen today, it was a wealth of release, really, with the amount of footage that was put out today by the IDF, but there was also footage released by Hamas this afternoon that purported to show them around Rantisi Hospital. So this is about a mile, a mile and a quarter away from a Shifa hospital with Hamas running into the hospital and then there's a large explosion. But some of the things, obviously, we can't independently confirm some of the more finer points or details of what we're seeing in these videos when they're released by Hamas, right? But we could see them maneuvering and navigating around the roads around this hospital. So while the IDF has not confirmed that they have complete ground control over all the streets in Gaza City, that would be a tremendous challenge, so much area to cover. It does show that these battles are still taking place on the streets, that there is still fighting taking place on the roads around these complexes, that the IDF is putting a lot of focus and a lot of equipment and ground forces around. So perhaps that does speak to the videos that were seen released by the IDF with these tunnels, about how intricate this network of tunnels can be and can provide that level of mobility between different sites, different hospitals, or in TC and al-Shifa. Alright, Zach Enders down there in stereo, thank you for that. And we talked earlier, gentlemen, about disinformation and Gauri about the war of disinformation. In that context, we have to also discuss Noah Marciano, the Israeli soldier who was discussed today by the IDF spokesperson, who was taken captive into the Gaza Strip, was it last week, I believe, Hamas released a video of her taken, apparently in a life, in the just days after October 7th, we don't have the exact date, where she is clearly suffering some wounds, but is still able to speak in the video and makes different sort of propagandist claims clearly under duress. But clearly, she's conditioned enough to speak in that video. And then we are told, Hamas says, shows the dead body and says, well, she died of her wounds. Now, let's go to your point, Eitan, there may be more information about her, even visual information the IDF has, but out of sensitivity for the family, they're not going to release. But the pathology reports saying no, whatever wounds she suffered, maybe in a potential airstrike, were not life-threatening, and she was clearly based on the intelligence they have murdered by Hamas, right there in the area of Shifa Hospital, soon after. Yes, an independent pathological report says that she was very mildly wounded from that airstrike and then was taken into the Shifa Hospital, where according to the IDF and according to that pathological report, she was murdered in the hospital. This is what the IDF is saying. This is what the pathological report is proving. I'm sure her family has seen whatever proof he's needed. And obviously images of an IDF soldier will not be released to the public without the consent of the family. Right, and we did not, like most Israeli media, we did not show the. Very sensitive in this case of the Thai and the Thai and the Nepalese citizens that was under the agreement of the families and their governments as well. I think, Alev, that the world now has to understand why Israel claimed and asked and request many health organizations and countries to send field hospitals and organize them in a way that we can move. Those people were probably healed from some of the hospitals in order to go to these hospitals and give the Hamas the treatment it should be given to such terrorists and such a butcher's that are making hospitals a part of their murdering machine. Right, I just want to jump in for a second on the question of the field hospitals is relevant to the news item today, which is that I believe 31 is a figure 31 baby infants, babies were removed through the cooperation of the IDF from Shefa Hospital were evacuated today from the neonatal unit under the auspices of the IDF brought through that safe corridor into the south where according to reports, they are going to be actually transferred through the Rafiq crossing, we're seeing some footage there and be treated in the field hospital in the on Egyptian territory that is being set up and being funded there by the United Arab Emirates. So that just in fact the process you're describing is actually already taking place and even today played a key role there in the rescue of thousands of hospitals and we are talking about north part of Gaza where IDF is operating and I was very surprised from the fact that the king of Jordan asked Israel to bring a field hospital to Nablus with 200 beds. There is no any need for it and instead of sending it to Gaza and when you see it, you can organize rapidly such a thing in order on one thing to give a medical treatment to those who need it on the second issue is to continue our mission because as I told you at the beginning, we risk our soldier life in this kind of stopping, waiting, proving to the world what we mean by calling Shefa a part of the Hamas structure, giving them everything. Meanwhile, the soldiers is around the hospital, the soldiers are taking by anti-tank missiles by other kind of things and this is in my opinion a time to call to the Israeli government enough. We need to be active not to attack medical teams, not to attack of course illness people but to be much more aggressive with Hamas and that is something that with your permission I would like to connect. What is the goal of Hamas by making the kind of agreement of releasing such and such number of hostages to get three or five days of ceasefire of course, organize themselves, planning a tech, planning a support from such area to another area under the underground tunnels and in this time also to attack the IDF that will be in hold and waiting in the field and at this part I agreed that our main mission is to release most as we can because you see these murderers they will not keep them alive not for a long time so we must do it so what I would like to describe here is the atmosphere after the butchering in the Israeli area, burning homes, burning families in their home and what all the stories we are coming inside Gaza we showed the world that Hamas is enough enough with Hamas we cannot anymore allow such an entity the nation of Hamas in Gaza not organization nation because there are many civilians who identify with Hamas and we must say it loudly we have to build a new way in Gaza while we will live secure to our people and supply new opportunities for Gaza's people. Well stay with us because the next item certainly relates to what you're saying because while Gaza and the Lebanon border obviously the major fronts in the war the West Bank and you mentioned it in Nabilis is still simmering with violence and unrest. Now last night the IDF conducted raids in Janine and Balata seizing weapons and clashed there as well as in other West Bank locations with militants Palestinian sources saying two of those were killed in those clashes. So how is this current war being perceived inside the West Bank? Well in an opinion poll conducted by Berzate University which the Palestine University has revealed that a majority of Palestinians surveyed in the West Bank support the Hamas massacre on October 7th an attack that saw more than 1200 people butchered tortured or shot plus more than of course 236 people being held hostage in Gaza. Now the research by the university's Arab world for research and development found there is strong Palestinian support for the military wings of the terrorists. The Al-Qasim brigades with the highest support 89% Palestinian Islam and Jihad with 84% Al-Aqsa modest brigade with 80% and Hamas receiving a lower 76%. Well this is the challenge because you talk about support in within the Palestinian and there is talk about who is going to be governing the Gaza Strip when the military operation is completed and Hamas is removed. I would like to say the time against elections or such checking we supporting with not because the Palestinian people and I'm telling it not that I'm anti-democratic because I'm in reality and pragmatic we should organize the condition and then to give the Palestinian people the option to vote because Gaza is already one generation under Hamas entity and you see in my opinion more and more people are identified with Hamas and if you are looking also in the West Bank they have also some higher percentage you I in that pay point respect Abu Mazen decision not to make elections you see what happened all the time when he planned elections he was voting as a president and then he was surprised by losing the parliament and I think we have to give other kind of opportunities to the Palestinian people did it to save himself clearly as Hamas is gaining more and more popularity on the Palestinian Street not just in Gaza also in the West Bank and not just in terms of elections just his personal safety here Hamas Abbas would not be in power if it wasn't for the IDF nightly raids that kept him on his seat the fact that the IDF is the one operating to curb Hamas's terrorist activity not just against Israelis but obviously also against the rule of Fatah in the West Bank right and certainly we know about that security cooperation that goes very much under the radar between the are in between IDF and Palestinian security forces I don't know how active that may be at the moment no we might emphasize that this kind of coordination I called it coordination between the both let's say security organizations it's because of one interest who is the enemy who is risking and I think the most PR most bothering from Hamas and as you see the last events in the West Bank if I may just describe it it's bubbling and if you see the events that happened in the south area of the West Bank in Hebron this is a signal that Hamas give them a green light and push the area of supporting Hamas Hebron is one of the main areas that support Hamas by majority of population they are pushing to give or to make some terror attacks by cabins not by individual you see it what happened in the last days and if you add to it what is going in the north part of the West Bank we have really a reason to be very careful about this constitution the West all right well I just want to point to an item today in the city of Kassari the recovered personal belongings of those who were killed or wounded or fled from the Nova Music Festival were made available to the public for the first time enabling survivors or their family members to recover some items that left behind here's what some of those who were there today had to say we want to tell to all the survivors and all the families to came here to take to take the the staff we know that all the stuff that it's very very important stuff for the families and for the for survivors it's can be even small from a from people that was murdered there and it's very important to the family this is tragic to see that certainly as you're still trying to recover from this from the situation and it shows you just how much still even today I should note another thing just the bodies still have some people down in the south there was a 12-year-old girl who's who was actually given a burial last week by a family even though her body had not been positive to use archaeologists to identify her body this is the extent of the damage to the body in this case and in so many cases of Israelis were slaughtered at the hands of these murderous animals so many innocent civilians burned alive in their shelters by by these Hamas terrorists right a Tandango guy as you'll stay with us we are going out for a brief break but please stay with us we're just going out for a few minutes and we'll continue our broadcast at day 44 of Israel's war against Hamas we'll be right back in their beds we have no idea where she has our soldiers are fighting on the frontline but the general perception is something that certainly needs to to be fought as well come back to this special broadcast tonight 24 news well since the very start of Israel's war against Hamas analysts here and in America have been on the lookout for cracks between the United States and Israel but on Saturday Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu and US President Joe Biden seemed to move closer to agreement on the nature of a post-war Gaza Strip and our senior diplomatic correspondent Owen Altman tells us other parts of Biden's outlook are also worth Israel's attention Israeli media made this the headline a 50 minute press conference Saturday night with Israel's top leaders with the Prime Minister saying this about the Gaza Strip on the day after the Palestinian Authority in its current form cannot get control cannot get control of Gaza after we fought and done all this to give it to them Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu choosing his words carefully a week after commentators wrongly said he had closed the door on the Palestinian Authority ruling a post war Gaza I will not allow any party into Gaza that supports terrorism and paste terrorists and terrorist families and educates their children to murder Jews and to eliminate the state of Israel and putting Netanyahu just maybe in line with US President Joe Biden whose op-ed in the Washington Post came out just as Netanyahu was speaking as we strive for peace Gaza and the West Bank should be reunited under a single governance structure ultimately under a revitalized Palestinian Authority as we all work towards a two-state solution a potential meeting of the minds at least on a post war Gaza is important for Israel making it more likely Israel will achieve its core goals and Israelis should also pay attention to the rest of Biden's op-ed normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia implicitly is still on the red marker corridor from India through the Middle East is still on and Israel and Ukraine are for Biden a common cause of defending American allies Israel can think not only of what to take from that US grand strategy but also how to help it and so with us a Tandango to of course is the former coordinator of government activities in the in the territories Boston in territory so certainly this is a subject you know well we have a president Biden talking about a quote revitalized Palestinian Authority not clear what that is Prime Minister Netanyahu saying it won't be a it has to can't be a Palestinian Authority that pays out money to security prisoners to terrorists the so-called pay to slay or in sites then today Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas and we discussed this earlier in the broadcast repeating this disinformation this ridiculous claim that IDF helicopters firing on the crowds what caused most of the fatalities there at the Nova Music Festival which raises the question can there and be a revitalized Palestinian Authority acceptable certainly not to Israel but even to the US that has Mahmoud Abbas at the head of it I think that the basic principle you can identify for many years and I think Biden is much more right by telling it in my opinion he told it to the Prime Minister from the first moment after what happened on the 7th of October it means that he divided very clearly between Hamas and between Palestinian authorities and he continues with the traditional democratic parties attitude that they for the two-state solution and the address is the PA at the beginning you saw that the Israeli Prime Minister refused to accept it even as a principle but in 48 hours ago in the press conference he says suddenly that he's not agree it was just I think 24 hours 24 hours it's my mistake I'm here is unfortunately running so quick that you can you know to remember exactly but what BB Netanyahu said that he accept another kind a change of Palestinian authorities that will be allowed to enter well he say he laid conditions what does it mean before going to Mahmoud Abbas I think that you see the American influence the importance of the American as an ally to Israel is very clear and you see that the American impact Israeli policy towards humanitarian issues in Gaza and I think that the fuel issue came because of the American this is that I think that BB Netanyahu also moved a little bit on his mind because after his talk with the Americans and on the other end when you really making an alization about the opportunities about the process because we are now has started already the day after and it's immediately and then coming the medium time while it will be such a modular I think a process that will bring some organizations from the world to help some people internally will take care from the civilians and then to see right which we're seeing with the field hospitals yes like like for example and I can give you few examples and at the end game I think that will be some a moderate Arab countries but you will have to bring a group or something that belong to the PA now I think I'm the big mistake of Abu Mazen Abu Mazen in my opinion or a boss yeah Mahmoud Abbas he made two critical mistakes first was on May 21 when he declared elections and he brought all the explosion that has brought the situation I think and speed it up secondly what he said about what happened in in the area in the 7th of October now what he didn't say because I think that in that case he made himself and that he will not the guy that not me not average Israeli civilian and not the Israeli government will agreed that he will be there so the question will be who will be there I think we have time okay well I just once I get obviously denounced even by Yair Lapid the head of the opposition who initially suggested that the Palestinian Authority will take over the Gaza Strip and when we speak about denial of the massacre we can also remind our viewers who is also a Holocaust denier right Mahmoud Abbas historically but I do want to say you raise a point about the cooperation of the so-called if you want to call them the modern Arab states or the more Western aligned Arab states might be more accurate but and there is discussion among international leaders about this administration of Gaza after the removal of Hamas the participation of forces from Arab countries that have normalized ties with Israel or have expressed an interest to do so would be key but at a conference in Bahrain today a couple of a couple of officials from those countries Jordan and the UAE had this to say let's listen there'll be no Arab troops going to Gaza none we're not gonna be seen as the enemy I mean we can't really come and sit down and say the next step will be you know some sort of de facto administration over Gaza or the PA should do this and that I think we need to be guided by the Palestinians if we are not guided by the Palestinians whatever we do will just not be legitimate well there you have it pretty clear of course that's what they're saying now could change depending on this perhaps specific circumstances I'm not surprising in this stage this is what I accept that will be said by them especially of course Jordan is going higher than everybody because of their fright from the Palestinian or living in Jordan but put them in the side because I think they cross a little bit the line we used to understand how they are what is and why this is their attitude on the other end I might tell you that in my opinion the importance our Israel will ended the offensive activities against Hamas on those countries as more as Israel will fulfill its goal to destroy Hamas structure to kill its leadership to move ahead its entity you will see more and more Arab modern countries are coming and volunteer to supply help aid and creating a new thing because they are waiting and have a holding their fingers that Israel will succeed to fulfill its mission because here it's today in Israel tomorrow it's in their countries I will gentlemen stay with us because earlier we did speak are we've been speaking just now about this denial of events that took place at the Nova Music Festival I did point out that much of what we know about it is footage that was actually taken from the terrorists themselves and in one of the tragic incidents at that festival on October 7th some 30 people there took refuge in a public bomb shelter in the initial moment of the attack when it at first appeared this was just another round of rocket strikes from Gaza that when Hamas terrorists came to the shelter and attacked it at the end only seven of the some 30 people survived but those survivors credited that survival to a near Shapiro he is an off-duty and unarmed IDF staff sergeant and near Shapiro I'm sorry who stood at the entrance of the shelter and according to the initial testimony as a terrorist through grenades into the shelter seven times he picked up the explosive device and hurled it back out but it was only last week that a piece of footage emerged taken from the dash cam of one of the terrorist vehicles which showed this happening you can see in this clip the terrorists throw a grenade into the shelter it comes back out it explodes and then after Shapiro apparently was wounded by the eighth grenade you can see another terrorist opening fire there into the shelter Shapiro selfless action bought the survivors apparently enough type to conceal themselves some of them actually hiding under the bodies who already died now joining us is Moshe Shapiro the father of in there who was of course murdered by Hamas he joins us from Jerusalem first of all Moshe tell us about your son because he sounds like he was an extraordinary young man who certainly in his final moments proved what a what a hero was yes so there was a good evening first of all there was a very unique guy I mean it was it was an art right not an artist and the musician also and he loved he loved life and this is why he came to the to the festival and beside that he was a very good soldier and and more than everything else he was a it was a very it was a guy with a very high moral and and this is I mean I said it in the in the Shiva that it's like a it's like an iceberg that we have it the long of the length of the iceberg is the 22 years and what we see in the in the event in in the meganit in the shelter it's the it's the edge of the iceberg but all what we see here it represents the way the way he lived his life with the always took care of people who was and in the last event it was it was there and though he's a soldier and it was in vacation for for the holiday but he was without without uniform without ammunition without to without command he gave himself the commands he didn't knew anybody in the in the shelter it was the he met them only a few minutes before he decided that he'll protect them and we have a picture from the from the shelter that was taken a few minutes before before before before the attack of the grenade started and you see him standing I mean all you see all the people in the in the shelter laying on the on the ground and he's standing on on the entrance with a with a he made a knife out of a a beer bottle that he broke you know that if the if the terrorists will enter he will stab them with this bottle but then they didn't they were afraid to enter as you can see in the in the in the movie and they start throwing grenades and immediately he picked up the grenades and he threw them back on them and if in the in the sixth grenade you can even see that he he went even you can see his arm coming out of the of the shelter I mean it was it was very certain in his in the ability of of handling the situation I wanted to say Moshe I spoke to earlier a few week couple of weeks ago I spoke with one of the survivors a young man who actually survived by hiding under the body it sounded like something out of the Holocaust hiding under one of the bodies of the some 30 people that were killed there in order just to just to just to get out I mean it it sounds like an unbelievable hella situation how he described it and to think that an error it was able to sort of just keep his cool in that situation and act in the ways that he did it just is incredible what happened is that when he entered it was it came it came the last one I mean he came with his a friend here's Goldberg is now kidnapped is his friend from Jerusalem that he came they came there were the last guys that entered the shelter there were something like 27 people there were the in the shelter and when he came it was a few it came in like a like an hour before the attack started and when he entered it is so that they there was a big a big Russian so I nobody knew what what happens they were very afraid although he was the it was among the youngest people there and the people there the others were at the middle of their 20s beginning of the 30s is only 22 years old but it took command on the situation it they said my name is a nurse appear I'm a I'm a I'm a soldier in the in the Sahir at nacha don't be afraid the army is very close and one of the girls that survived all us that it is she she heard him and she said we're so pleased that you came this is the picture that you seem right this is unbelievable this is from inside in fact I talked to the young man I believe who took that picture who took photographs during the whole who actually photographed during the whole incident it took it by mistake it took it by mistake wow the guy that the guy that took the picture is his name is it a Marsha Pirra I know someone else okay he left he left he left the message to his parents to his parents I actually separate he said goodbye to his parents he left them a message and by mistake press he pressed the button of the of the camera and the only after only in the evening when he was in the Sarawak Hospital suddenly took two pictures and when he came after the after the ship I came to our house and told us where I have a present for you right so that's actually the last that's the last photo of you have a near there at the entrance that's that's where we have a picture of his hand with a grenade right that's a few minutes after that yes right well you mentioned a Hirsch Goldberg just coincidentally we spoke with Rachel Goldberg about 40 minutes ago about her trip to the US the speech she gave at that rally that very powerful speech where she spoke really to the world of course also about you know in terms of the plight of her her son but I want to ask you because you heard Rachel's message to the world I'm sure you've heard it I want to hear what you we're an international channel I wanted you son gave his life in that defense in that we're hearing talk there are people who are making crazy claims denying the event happened disinformation claiming it was Israeli's friendly fire that killed those young people so I want to use you give you this forum to make your statement and speak out to those people in this case we have web the web web the film that was taken by the by the vehicle camera that we showed before and there you hear the shouting in Arabic you already see all the other shooting that I've done there you see all the grenades that they're throwing and I mean these are not Israeli soldiers that I hate this trying to hit them there is the other movies of the day took the Hamas took when you see Hirsch Goldberg coming up on the car on the on the Toyota car with two others that were kidnapped so in this case they can't and I'm saying this is almost this event is almost like you can it's the you see the worst evil that you can imagine dealing with the nicest people in there I mean people that came for a for a piece festival people with no intention of farming anybody and on the contrary I mean they build people that believe in peace in music and you see the in this clash between evil and goodness what I'm not taught us is that if you're that you can you can you can you can find the evil you can rescue people you can find the evil I don't you if I know you don't have a weapon in your hands and the and the evil is good they have the grenades they have the machine guns they have or whatever they have but if you're if you have good intentions so you'll be able to maybe not to rescue yourself but you to rescue others and this is something I'm not told us and and it's important to say it saved it saved more than seven we have seven in Israel but Hirsch Goldberg was saved and the two others were saved and we are praying for God that the Hirsch and the others and all the 20 240 people will come back to Israel all right Moshe Shapiro first of all of course we we join in the morning of your son and air and may his memory be a blessing as we say and of course also second the your call for the freeing of all the hostages Hirsch Goldberg and all the others being held in Gaza thank you so much for sharing your story with us on I 24 news thank you thank you so many stories of heroism from this massacre a story that will remembered in the history of the state of Israel you can go back to heroes like Natan Elbaz many years ago who jumped on a grenade to save his friend's lives and another story of a soldier that did the same during this same operation I think that first of all this story I met the parents in another occasion and you cannot sit and without feeling your eyes with tears and about this story it's it's a hero it's something that has to be learned for a year's for generations about this guy his personality and his family I think that both parents educate such a son in such a way and what he did it shows the cabin of the family I just I just gonna point out one thing he apparently is the great grandson of one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence Moshe Shapiro is a minister in the government so it's something that I sitting here and and I see again and again the movie you feel all your skin is again almost connecting to which is unbelievable word I think that by watching it you see what is the the young generation in Israel I combine it what you saw yeah with with this fellow and what you see in the field about we have a generation for victory and brave all right a time down go guy Israeli thank you for joining us and let's end this particular broadcast again with a folk on the focus where it should be on the hostages the square of the Tel Aviv Museum of Art has become the site of displays and protests in recent weeks to raise awareness for Israel's hostage hostage crisis local artists have been hard at work with their canvases there as part of the project which is called this is us which aims to increase support for those who have been kidnapped with those behind the project working closely with quote bring them home that's the hostage and missing families forum we've discussed about Erica Jackson has more on how this project is touching hearts through the power of art with paintbrushes in their hands these artists in Israel are raising awareness for hostages that Hamas kidnapped in Israel on October 7th they're doing it through creating portraits of them when everything started so I felt kind of like I can't help with anything and I was at home pregnant I yell it has previously painted Daphna Elia came and is really kidnapped by Hamas who's 15 years old today she's painting another hostage golly Tarshonsky she's only 13 my connection to to a girl like a small young girl that is needs her mother needs her parents needs her family has made me my heart went out to her the opportunity to create these artworks is all thanks to a project called this is us and whether it's through acrylic charcoal or watercolor the mission is the same allowing artists to use the skills they know best to give back the fresh paint art and design fair along with the nonprofit Yotsrim Sviva which provides a platform for female artists in the Orthodox Jewish community is behind the initiative it's meant to raise awareness for those held hostage in Gaza by Hamas we've just made contact with the artists that we were in regular connections with and we invited them to do collaborative shifts here at the square of Tel Aviv Tel Aviv Museum of Art as a painter when I found out about this so I wanted straight ahead to participate it wasn't even a question when I started to do this it was like I could breathe again for artists like Stella Lamichov at times the process of creation isn't easy when I heard about this project I knew that it would be quite hard for me to look at someone who I know is over the border usually I paint from life and the thought of someone not being alive just killed me today Stella is painting Danielle Aloni who was kidnapped in Kibbutz near Oz when I saw the videos in the 7th of October of Danielle and her daughter her sister her nieces in a truck led to Gaza I saw the little girls in their pink dresses clinging to their moms with their little hands the first thought as a mom was that could have been me that could have been my daughter I have families the rot we could have been visiting here the stories of those taken captive are told through art with the hope that one day these paintings will be delivered into their hands I'm full of hope that she will see the drawing she will receive it and hopefully we will meet in better circumstances I believe that I paint him and he will return I hope he will put it in his room the room here reporting from Tel Aviv Erica Jackson I-24 news and that brings this particular broadcast to a close but do stay with us on I-24 news that the Halkenberg is coming up next to continue our coverage of Israel's war against Hamas as day 44 comes to a close on this broadcast again with a plea for the hostages bring them home now thank you for joining us made for me a unique concept in Israel custom-made men's fashion to your measurements made for me designer of all your events schedule your appointment at www.madeforme.co.il made for me official dresser of I-24 news good evening ladies and gentlemen Israel is at war make an investment in Israel bonds it is the most powerful and direct way to stand with Israel visit Israel bonds comm and invest now Israel is in a state of war families completely done down in their beds we have no idea where he has our soldiers are fighting on the front lines but the general perception is something that certainly needs to to be fought as well news 24 in espanyol trial analysis and the information de los acontecimientos de la guerra espada de hierro entrevistas exclusivas reportes desde la zona de guerra la reacción de los países hispano parlantes news 24 el único medio en español que te mantiene informado y conectado con la comunidad latina en israel news 24 únicamente en I-24 news to the special broadcast here in I-24 news as we continue a rolling coverage day 44 of the war here in Israel five days of surgical operations at the infamous chief of hospital a terror tunnel and uncovered underground a chilling documentation of Israeli hostages being brought into the hospital on October 7th by Hamas terrorists nearly three weeks since the ground operation in the Gaza Strip the IDF has gained almost full control of the northern part of it and is now expanding the campaign to the south on the northern front Israel up and on boarder that is a low threshold war his ball up keeping up the fire Israel keeping up the strikes the Houthis back in the game taking over a big cargo ship in the Red Sea Jerusalem is saying it's not Israeli Hamas kind enough to finally pick up the call from the Qataris and renew contacts for a hostage release deal who is calling the shots here still unclear and the Palestinian Authority the same one that Washington hopes will take the Gaza Strip the day after is not just denying the October 7th massacre but outrageously saying Israel itself bombed an over music festival the one where Hamas butchered hundreds of young Israelis gave the Palestinian Authority spokesman in Ramallah said something utterly preposterous it denied that it was Hamas that carried out the horrible massacre at the nature festival near Gaza it actually accused Israel of carrying out that massacre that this is a complete reversal of truth Abu Mazen when the past has denied the existence of the Holocaust today is denying the existence of the Hamas massacre and that's unacceptable my goal is that the day after we destroy Hamas any future civil administration in Gaza does not deny the massacre does not educate its children to become terrorists does not pay for terrorists and does not tell its children that their ultimate goal in life is to see the destruction and the solution of the state of Israel that's not acceptable and that is not the way to achieve peace and to get a better understanding of what happened what is happening and what will be happening joining us on this broadcast here in studio Mr. Yakov Lapin military and strategic affairs analysis the Jewish news syndicate in the Miriam Institute thank you very much Mr. Lampin for joining us well we do want to begin of course with what is being revealed by the IDF tonight what the IDF is revealing at the shefa hospital slash terror compound let's take a quick listen to what IDF spokesperson Daniel Agari had to say this hour this is 7th of October 10 55 a.m. the evidence I will share was sent by Israel to diplomatic channels to the countries of those civilians here you can see Hamas taking a hostage inside the vicinity he doesn't look even he even doesn't look need to need a treatment but they're taking inside the hospital I will now share this video that shows the same hostage entering into the hospital with a gunman terrorist inside the hospital this is the main entrance of the hospital Mr. Yakov Lapin this is part of what is being revealed tonight and I will pose a challenging question there was a lot of talk before during the operation of the shefa hospital and many especially globally we're waiting to see what is it that Israel is talking about what is it that the US is talking about it is underneath the shefa hospital is this what we were waiting for if we look at everything that's been revealed just tonight a 55 meter fortified tunnel 10 meters deep 55 meters running along very likely in the direction of the hospital and it was discovered under the hospital complex and now we see that the hospital was used as a hostage trafficking center they brought them in from Israel directly after kidnapping them brutally and then sent them out to hideouts in the area the bodies of two Israelis were already discovered very close to shefa when you put all these things together the vehicle that belonged to the Hamas Nukhba elite unit that was packed with AK-47s and grenades you put all this together this is a smoking gun yeah this is a Hamas operational terrorist command center and I don't know what else could be expected you know in terms of delivery there is so much here already to show that shefa was a Hamas terrorist base and this is perhaps another vicious cruel part of this asymmetrical war that Israel needs to prove constantly that it is being attacked that it is being assaulted and that the enemy wants to to diminish it completely even though the enemy is saying it loud and clear Hamas officials till this very day saying that they will keep on doing that if they have a chance but let's talk about the fighting that is currently still underway in the northern part of the strip not much left quote-unquote to to execute there and yet the territory is not defined neutralized yet not yet we saw the idea of deepening its activities in places like Jabalia and Zaytun in Gaza City I mean this is very much an intelligence driven broadening of the idea of activities when they get intelligence of further idea Hamas targets they will go in and take those out and what I think what we're seeing now is really the mopping up operation of Gaza City and northern Gaza and really the IDF's eye is on further south places like Hanyunis where Hamas is still very much active yes so we will map out what is happening in the south in a bit and also Jabalia perhaps it's important to note that is one of the locations the neighborhoods that perhaps is most most identified with the massacre of October 7th most of the the Gazan civilians that entered Israel on October 7th and looted and raped and kidnapped Israelis came from that area so everything profoundly intertwined with harsh brutal symbolism at this point in time all right but we want to catch up with what's happening on the northern front now because it's an active yet another active day there today as well I 24 news correspondent Pia Stakel Bacha with the 24 news team there on the Israel-Lebanon border Pia again another day of what we call now a low-threshold war in the north right Elia has been another quite eventful day the skirmishes between Israel and Hisballah are continuing the latest Israeli army statement saying that Israel has been striking targets in southern Lebanon targets that are belonging to Hisballah including in command center belonging to Hisballah there in southern Lebanon in fact we have been hearing outgoing Israeli artillery also from where we are standing here in the western center part of the Geleli region this comes after Hisballah has claimed responsibility for at least eight attacks throughout the day we are speaking about the launches of anti-tank missiles and also a motor shells in addition to that a suspicious aerial devices entered Israeli airspace earlier this afternoon they were intercepted not causing any injuries and also two hours ago rocket air raid sirens ringing in the community of Dalton and the belonging industrial zone and we are hearing that there have two launches have been intercepted there by the Israeli army again no casualties reported there in the afternoon tensions were high again when there was a report about a possible infiltration attempt in the community of Stula and the western part of the Geleli that turned out to be false but that really just shows you Ali how high the tensions here are because we're not only speaking about the threat of airplanes or rockets or motor shells or anti-tank missiles but the threat of infiltration attempts is very real we have seen those especially in the beginning of this war in the beginning of the heating up of the northern front especially being conducted by Palestinian groups there they have all been apprehended by the Israeli military but the fact also that these communities that are that close to the border including Stula have been widely evacuated really shows you how serious these threats are being treated and really what has been happening today is just a continuation of that low level war as you can possibly even call it here in the north as this has been some this has become some sort of a routine that Hezbollah launching motor fire or anti-tank missiles in Israel as a response retaliating in southern Lebanon. Yeah and Pierre before we'll let you go you know we keep on looking for indication on what what is Hezbollah's true intention and we always need to ask the question what is happening in Iran and in this respect Iran seems to be increasing its aggression from other fronts the Houthis going into action today so perhaps an indication that it wants to keep Hezbollah out of danger or are we reading too much into that? Possibly Ali but Hezbollah is very much already part of this low-scale war here in the north that is keeping Israeli forces busy here we're speaking about thousands of reservists being stationed here dozens of communities evacuated and also these skirmishes on a relatively low level on a contained level are also creating very very high tensions here and you can really speak about the northern front that has already been opened up and Hezbollah is working to keep it up. Yeah keeping the Israeli forces busy there on the northern border that's for certain I-24 news correspondent Pia Sakalbach on the israeli ban on border thank you very much for this back here in the studio with the Mr. Yakov Lapin well it seems that this aggressive defense state of mind is the modus operandi for the time being so my question to you Mr. Lapin is how can the IDF harshen its response without upping the level of the war? I don't think it can right now it's clear that the IDF the Israeli work cabinet are prioritizing the goal of dismantling Hamas and the Gaza Strip but in the north we have a paradox we have 60,000 northern Israelis who cannot come back to this reality of having the Radwan elite Hezbollah commando terrorists on the border just like Hamas was on October 6th in the Gaza Strip threatening to invade threatening to kidnap threatening to conduct mass murder attacks there is no way they can go back to that reality so the question is what can be done there are various options all of them have cost-benefit calculations but i think one thing you know that at least looks clear to me going forward is that once the southern front is stabilized Israel will have to answer some hard questions about the reality the security reality on the Lebanese border because those residents cannot go back to this kind of reality yeah so any action or like they're of now will come into play the day after the war in the south when perhaps a war in the north will be more than just a talking point but we do want to go back to the field now going now down south to the Israel Gaza border I-24 news correspondent Zach Anders with the I-24 news team there on the ground Zach thank you very much for joining us well before I ask you about the major revelations of the Shifa hospital what's really been happening there I want us to discuss the new component of of this war not a surprising one and yet an important one rain the weather today the weather has been not the best conditions for all involved you have to think of it in two ways from the operational side of things for the IDF they've lost visibility the rain and cloud cover has made it difficult to be able to see throughout the area we've lost our ability to put our cameras on the border and be able to see into some of these areas so we have to assume that that's a problem then for their operations and for the humanitarian side of things people in Gaza are posting today about the temporary shelters the thousands and thousands of people that have been displaced are in these tents or covered with tarps they're sleeping out in the elements and with this wind the temperature it might be still hovering the 60s but it feels block colder with the wind and then you combine that with being wet and the wind blowing away your shelter it's a terrible terrible condition for them to be in today yes absolutely and yet the operations are underground continue still in the northern part of the of the Gaza Strip and yet already preparations to move us outward and the operations taking place around these hospitals to stand out in incredible detail today with the new videos that have been released about al shifa hospital i've been watching that footage back over and over again from the clip the security camera clip from taking a hostage inside the hospital as the IDF says and what really stood out to me is that the the nurses and the staff of this hospital if you watch very closely and you watch their their behavior their body language does not seem like they're in control of the situation especially when you have the intake of an injured patient right you have someone on a gurney that's bleeding and they seem to be responding to the other actions of others rather than taking control of the situation leaping into action to help an injured person that really stood out to me right well what an important observation um Zach Anders at 24 news correspondent on the Israel Gaza border thank you very much for this we will get back to you later on in the broadcast back here in steel with mr. Yakov Lapin mr. Lapin before we talk about perhaps the most depressing issue in terms of the Israeli consciousness which is of course the hostage issue when we're talking about the challenges in the southern part of the strip obviously you know as as mentioned briefly earlier in the broadcast every single stop here has a has an element of symbolism and in this respect Hanyunas is the birthplace of Yixin Wah Muhammad Def and there is an assumption that they might even be there as we speak and yet we we need to bear in mind that we have hundreds of thousands of of civilians in those areas that moved from the north to the south different type of urban warfare as well because of the the pattern of the of the villages in the cities there so it's a new ball game it's not what we've seen in the north I agree northern Gaza and Gaza city was really Hamas's center of gravity in terms of its operational military capabilities central and southern Gaza I think will require a more targeted approach by the IDF more intelligence based really the presence of hundreds of thousands of civilians who have moved south to these shelters will make create a requirement for more targeted firepower in those areas I believe that the IDF is completely up to the task it has proven its ability to adjust itself according to the operational needs you know we just need to look at the way it operated in Shifa hospital special forces have been there for five six days not a single patient or medical staff member was killed by IDF fire despite the fact that Hamas terrorists were in the region so you know I think the IDF knows how to adjust and knows how to move in different kinds of settings and we will see I think intense IDF attacks in those areas but targeted and surgical surgical targeted firepower and and really I think the bigger question even bigger than southern and central Gaza is the tunnels the tunnels is really the sort of stopwatch here because Yehissin Wahra's entire strategy is based on having most of his terrorist army down there in the tunnels and waiting it out waiting until he thinks Israel be forced to agree to a ceasefire and then he'll come out and declare victory this is what he's banking on this is his strategy and Israel is of course banking on the opposite strategy defeating and destroying Hamas before that kind of pressure is you know presented to it so these are the two stop clocks that we're looking at and to an extent even now we cannot really tell whose clock is more accurate and in this respect let's take a listen to what the Qatari Prime Minister had to say today about trying to get to some sort of a middle ground in this in this turf of extremes when you come closer to the goal you feel your confidence levels are are increasing and we help we hope that we are reaching to that point the sticking points honestly at this stage are more practical logistical not really something represent the core of of the deal the deal is going through ups and downs from time to time throughout the last a few weeks but i think that you know i'm now more confident that we are close enough to reach to a deal that can bring the people safely back to their homes whether they are the hostages on Hamas side or whatever the exchange that will happen will take place from the Israeli side yeah so this is the latest official update on the status of negotiations to bring about the release of hostages and we will dive in further into that in the broadcast but now you might remember the last week we brought to you a story about the kids of Kibbutz Berry and what they had to go through on the terrible Saturday of October 7th this week we bring you a conversation with their mothers the mothers of those children how are they dealing with the situation what do they think about about the day after and how to revive bring bring back some normality to their children's lives more in in this next report are you able to sleep at night a difficult question defines sleep it's not let's just say it's not the same sleep as before October 7th that's clear you close your eyes and the thoughts come and after one month already you really feel the fatigue has been carried being dragged day by day I wake up a lot at night all the time no nightmares I just wake up it's not I don't care that I'm relaxed enough maybe to sleep but but I agree with Shahan the body is very tired so how are you able to function during the day there are the children but what about you on autopilot no not us we don't have the privilege now to live our lives we are here in survival mode for the children and for the abductees it's both things and every day is every day don't think ahead don't dream dreams get up in the morning what am I doing today I wear the abductees shirt I wear their necklace and I promise my children that I am doing the best I can for them today too how did you stay 22 hours in the safe room in anticipation of it being over at my place they vomited for three hours inside safe room we didn't have bags then a bedroom so the two girls it doesn't matter take a shirt vomit into the shirt throw the shirt aside after it comes down a bit and I see the whatsapp group that they're shooting at the windows and shooting at the doors and at everything passing by so we move to stage B of hiding under the bed in the safe room letting everyone in including the dog and you say well if they come in they kill us all so what's left for me to do I wrote to my parents that will love them I wrote to the other side and you have nothing left to do just pray and in moments like these you manage to convey confidence to the children you have no choice we had some restraint some calm silence deathly silence even the dog didn't bark the only thing is that my body was shaking madly I was shaking in a way that and they said to me mom you are shaking so I told them it's from the air conditioner I'm cold I was busy all this time keeping my little one from making a noise she's a very bouncy girl and she's very four and a half years old and the truth is that the girl surprised me all these hours she kept quiet not once did she shout not once did she cry beyond my conversation with Danny kushma that they heard on tv I told him I cried to him and told him that terrorists were entering our house so I was constantly busy with her we've been here for three hours and now they're trying to break into my house hear their voices yes they're knocking on my door you understand that it is in your thoughts all the time and that it really is a trauma that they experienced that is present it is present there every morning the same questions and every night when you want to go to bed the same questions why don't we sleep at night the mothers because just before your child falls asleep he asks you if there is a terrorist today is there a terrorist in the hallway did you lock the door maybe he will come through the window it's really hard it's showering them when you're standing in the shower with them it's going into the bathroom with them it's impossible to leave the hotel because the hotel is their home and traveling anywhere they don't feel safe you feel the lump rising in your throat and you hold back from crying because you understand how hurt your child is and you want to be strong for him and at night as a mother it comes out I don't sleep because I think about everything they go through and how I can heal them and what did I do to them how did I bring them to this state is this a feeling that you really walk around with of course I thought berdy was the safest place in the world okay some rockets some this you can live with it but I brought him to worst of all he trusts me with his eyes closed that I will take care of him I'm not sure that's what I did I'm already in the safe room in the first hours I promised my eldest that we will decide together where we live I'm very because he told me I'm not coming back here I don't want to live here I don't want to live in this country he has also so many times experienced these rounds and he's the most anxious of all the children what are the little things that you miss a house cooking home food you know even to open the refrigerator just because at 11 30 p.m I feel like something and fold the laundry for yourself like there really are several options for laundry here but hey people will hear that you miss a laundry load they would not understand what you're talking about we were with friends in Tel Aviv at the weekend and it was so fun to sit for a second fold the laundry for myself do the laundry for myself small tasks what makes you feel good it seems to me that what gives me strength today and lifts me up is really my friends and my family that I can't answer everyone and get back to everyone but the love they shower on us and take care of us I've never experienced anything like this I was a person who was used to giving and today I'm receiving from all sides and at the end of the day I say there are a lot of people who love me and that gives you a lot of strength to continue the next day and the day after to know that they want to carry on then you turn to your children to help them it will be good like niri like niri said it would be good there must be a happy ending there must be a happy ending we have to believe there must be a happy ending we're taking a quick break now but we'll be right back with all the latest day 44 of the war here in Israel a few minutes and we're back Israel is in a state of war families completely gunned down in their beds we have no idea where is she as our soldiers are fighting on the front lines but the general perception is something that certainly needs to to be fought as well news 24 news come back thanks for staying with us and we want now to shift our focus to another battlefield the legal one and like all other fronts it is too complex and challenging one we want to welcome now a professor Robi sable a professor of international law the faculty of law at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem thank you very much professor sable for joining us tonight we appreciate your time well I want us to discuss both inwards and outwards let's let's start with the latter on the international legal front as we speak Israel's enemies are already working to pursue legal action against the state and individuals as an IDF soldiers in the future how can how should Israel move now from defensive to offensive state of mind our first should be to emphasize to the world and give evidence of the crimes of Hamas the attack itself which is horrendous attack the way they've been conducting military operations using human shields and hospitals and the fact that they're holding hostages and haven't even allowed the Red Cross to visit them these are the three main elements that we should be emphasizing and we are emphasizing to the world but but shouldn't there be a proactive approach here as in Israel seeking to prosecute the Hamas leaders in foreign tribunals European ones most notably perhaps ways we could we can have them charged first is in Israeli courts and we were going to do it there's even some thought of having a special tribunal to give greater emphasis but they will under those we've captured will certainly be tried in Israeli courts yeah second is the crimes they've committed are what is called cries a universal jurisdiction namely every country in the world can and in some cases should try them I don't think there's much chance of Hamas leaders wandering around Europe but if they do leave their Gaza and enter into any country with a democratic legal system they're likely to be charged the third is we're bringing information to the international criminal court we don't have too much confidence in that court but they should have the information and we will be providing them with the information about the crimes that Hamas committed Hamas is committed yeah well Professor Sable you've mentioned it what's happening here in Israel the Ministry of Justice is still raking their brains how to bring to trial the noob of terrorists those Hamas terrorists who led and executed and committed this horrific massacre public prosecutors are already saying they will not take part in representing the terrorists but before we even talk about legal representation the question we need to ask is whether the existing law is relevant to these sorts of cases whether the criminal law system is enough because for example a professor under this system theoretically speaking a woman who was raped by a Hamas terrorist could be asked to testify it's intolerable a thought really yes but the crimes they're committed of murder and rape are crimes under Israeli law and by the way they if they're charged they will be entitled to have defense attorneys and there will be need to bring evidence we're not going to change our basic criminal system for these cases we may try have a special tribunal but even so they will follow normal criminal procedure in the sense that crimes have to be proved yes but but but professor if this special tribunal is to be set up a sort of a military one should the question not whether the defendant committed this or that crime but rather was he part of it and then the evidence different the the entire dynamic of the trial is different no the fact frankly the the dynamics will be there of every trial in other words the prosecution will have to prove that that individual will be charged committed part of the offenses it won't be sufficient the Hamas committed it but if we bring somebody to trial we'll have to prove that that particular individual was involved in the murder or the rape or both of them and for that we'll have to bring witnesses there's no way or no way a democratic society is going to convict somebody unless the prosecution can prove that he did it and speaking to that point professor sable what about the death sentence because we are hearing more and more talk about this possibility downside of course international criticism and also ideologically speaking you're playing devil's advocate here you're quote unquote helping those terrorists become martyrs but the alternative of those terrorists enjoying a canteen and hot showers and television keeps many Israelis sleepless really two points I'd like to make first of all there's a they at the moment there's a very real danger for them as far as they're concerned of being killed in other words in battle we've killed them it's perfectly legitimate and there's no reason why we should spare their lives if however they are on our hands I don't think we should then kill them it's a personal matter I don't believe in the death penalty but I do believe that in battle they're liable to be killed and I have no sympathy for them however once they're in our hands either we capture them or they surrender they should and we fight convict them they should spend the rest of their lives in prison I don't believe in hanging people and and I should point out that no European state as a death penalty very few countries have a death penalty I don't believe Israel should join one of these countries yeah and of course just raising the questions here not taking a stand just to put it out there before we we thank you a professor there is fear that it will all get into this endless cycle of time dragging essentially you know it took about two decades if I'm if I'm not mistaken to complete 9-11 trials justice takes time and again these people committed horrible crimes and they should be convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment but for that we'll need to have a legal procedure and they'll mostly have defense attorneys it's worth pointing out that Eichmann was responsible for the concentration camps had a had an attorney and these people will also be entitled to have a defense but they committed horrible crimes I hope they'll be convicted and I hope this those who are in Israeli prisons will spend the rest of their lives there yeah well the wheels of justice might take time but they're rolling uh professor Abiyah Sable professor of international law the faculty of law the Hebrew University in Jerusalem thank you very much professor for your time for your insight we appreciate it thank you thank you and I believe you became a synonym if you will to the me too movement no more he said she said studying with women first and only then asking questions right but apparently this is not just not applicable when when we're talking about Israeli and Jewish women it's the exact opposite the brutal and humane October 7th the Hamas assault included cruel rapes and sexual abuse and incomprehensible mutilation young teenagers women act so vicious the the paper cannot even absorb the ink that will put those acts in writing and where is this global sisterhood the feminist movement the the women alliance at best silent chillingly enough though engaging in false active this proofing of the horrors that happened I believe you if you're a Jew it's not I it's I don't believe you rather here's here's a clip circulating on social media which what says it all what a crime yes I was raped so sorry we're here to help tell us what happened I was at a music festival we heard gunfire and everyone was running I started running then he grabbed me he yelled something in Arabic and then he ripped my sorry to interrupt you you said he was yelling in Arabic yes so he ripped my pants and then he just sorry I just leave a bit of background here are you Israeli yes and your rapist was Palestinian he was a Hamas terrorist okay just um this is a bit awkward but we can't help you but I was a rape do you have any proof yes he filmed it yeah so the local police don't take it personally management decided that all violence against Israelis is yeah legitimate resistance so sorry her husband kidnapped please help sure just before we get started are either of you Israeli October 7th a mass terrorist brutally raped Israeli women and children before murdering them there is no justification for rape and sexual violence rape is not resistance cannot believe it needs to be stated but rape is not resistance we want to welcome now our journalist of the area to chrono daily and why not Rotem Isaac Rotem thank you for joining us I read your article um on the sense of betrayal by the feminist movement a few days ago and I knew I wanted to talk to you little did I know that by the time we actually speak this would happen the director of Canada's Alberta University's sexual assault center the director of the sexual assault center woman named the Samantha Pearson co-signed a letter claiming there was no truth to report that Hamas terrorist raped Israeli victims on October 7th the letter written by two local politicians Susan Kim Sarah Jamma criticizing the unverified accusation the Palestinians were guilty of sexual violence this Pearson lady uh was fired this weekend uh thank God the miss Isaac I'm speechless yeah you know if you would have told me a month ago that this thing is going to happen you know I would have been shocked and probably told you that you are hallucinating but you know we've come to know sadly that antisemitism has various forms and one of the most striking ones one is this when women use their position that was given to them by the long lasting feminist struggle to eliminate other women so it's not only it's unjustified but it's inexcusable so you know um not only uh that uh woman from Canada that didn't believe you know Jewish woman after the me too movement did so much for women you know after we gone we got so far in our um me too movement yeah not only that you know the un uh women organization un women remain silent um about how horrifying crimes that happen to women because they are women and they wanted to put it in a broader context this is what drives me crazy this call for context these are the groups uh diminished the look at what she was wearing state of mind right and now they need context exactly and you know if they're watching us now well maybe I should tell them something um yeah there is a broader context for rape there is a context for rape women are raped because throughout history women were considered to be less of a human and uh the woman body was something that um in our culture is uh still treated as a prize you know so when um terrorists want to commit a war crime and to punish not only the woman but her society but her community by her country they rape her and you know the the thing is with women and the price the extra price they pay in wars is something that not I invented I invented I did not it's the same organization that is now silent the un women organization they wrote it they wrote the document that um sees rape as a sexual uh crime of war as the war against humanity um a crime against humanity so you know there is a context to rape but it's not a political context and if you treat the rape of an Israeli woman as something you know that shouldn't be maybe should be justified because maybe there's a political context then maybe you should you know have a talk with yourself and ask yourself what kind of a feminist and what kind of a humanist you are because guess what you are not a feminist and you are not a humanist at all you just hate Jews you know there are other words for it yeah they're simply put um and and hot amazing I know it's a tough and perhaps unfair question but but where do we go from here people who who wanted to women who wanted to see themselves part of a global community of a global sisterhood now left to be raped and and murdered alone so what's so your question is what should we do next um I'm a feminist I see myself as part of the you know global movement you know we cannot forget the hard work it took us to get where we are we kind of take what the me too movement that made us talk about sexual harassment and sexual violence it gave us a voice and I will keep giving women a voice and feminists around the world should keep giving women every woman in the world a voice and you know there is never a context for raping girls in their beds there is never a context for slaughtering mothers in front of their children and there is never a context for women giving birth in captivity so you know it's okay to hold a complex narrative it's completely okay to be in pain when innocent people innocent women and instant children pay the price in Gaza because of their leaders their terrorist leaders but please speak up for women for all women don't erase our trauma if you do don't tell yourself it's humanism because it's anti-semitism journalist thank you very much for this conversation hopefully we'll speak again at better times thank you my hope so amen amen sister this is what we have all right changing the tune now since the start of the war analysts have been on the lookout for cracks between the u.s. and israel but on saturday israeli prime minister mentioned a bunch of minutes now and yes president joe biden seemed to only move closer uh to agreement on the nature of the of a post war uh gaza strip maybe and uh senior diplomatica correspondent oh and ultimate tells us other parts of biden's outlook are worth our attention israeli media made this the headline a 50-minute press conference saturday night with israel's top leaders with the prime minister saying this about the gaza strip on the day after the palestinian authority in its current form cannot get control cannot get control of gaza after we fought and done all this to give it to them israeli prime minister benjamin itanyahu choosing his words carefully a week after commentators wrongly said he had closed the door on the palestinian authority ruling a post war gaza i will not allow any party into gaza that supports terrorism and paste terrorists and terrorist families and educates their children to murder jews and to eliminate the state of israel and putting netanyahu just maybe in line with us president joe biden whose op ed in the washington post came out just as netanyahu was speaking as we strive for peace gaza and the west bank should be reunited under a single governance structure ultimately under a revitalized palestinian authority as we all work towards a two-state solution a potential meeting of the minds at least on a post war gaza is important for israel making it more likely israel will achieve its core goals and israelis should also pay attention to the rest of biden's op ed normalization between israel and saudi arabia implicitly is still on the red marker corridor from india through the middle east is still on and israel and ukraine are for biden a common cause of defending american allies israel can think not only of what to take from that u.s grand strategy but also how to help and joining a mr. Ayako valapin and myself here in studio is mr. mark shulman editor in columnist for newsweek editor in chief of history central mr shulman thank you very much for joining us it's been a while uh good to have you hear all things considered of course um i want us to to begin allegedly on the sidelines of mr. shulman demonstrations that demanding a ceasefire in the israel a hamas war prompted california democratic party officials to cancel events at this convention they had so this is no longer silly youngsters in college these are people who are or taking center stage it's a democratic party convention right well they were they weren't delegates these were demonstrations that and yet calling the shots well the calling shots because they took it over yeah i mean they physically took it over with violence basically and they refused to leave um this is violent demonstrations that they're participating in they're doing it in more than one venue obviously we saw a grand central station a week ago wherever they can they're doing this these are organized i'll call them protest but they're more than protest an attempt to disrupt various gatherings democratic party is obviously a clear target of theirs um look it's become dangerous there's no question i mean this whole issue both in terms of college campuses and beyond college campuses and not only students but the students are going beyond the campuses they go probably beyond just students has become dangerous in the united states in all those sort of ways it they were in the strange period where the far right and the far left and not so far left converging yeah i'm on juice and of course on our issues obviously too um you know the people who are calling for ceasefire that i break them into two parts they're the hardcore people who supported what kamas did and we know who they are and we've heard from them and we saw them and then the people who just looking at the images that you know i see the american news every day and it starts with the images from gaza so if you see that every day you're going to say well ceasefire stop killing people without context without understanding what happened but my question to you mr shulman because democrats both in senate and in congress are are discussing a potential change of the terms of the aid the military aid to israel is a response to talks about the humanitarian aid to gaza and my question is is the biden administration really representing the democratic party the um uh state of mind i think it's representing the majority of democratic party it's still not representing the the left side of the democratic party the progressive wing of the democratic party which speaks loudest i don't know that they they're not a majority they're still a minority in the democratic party but they're very vocal shall we say and they know how to be very vocal and they're extremely vocal on on social media and everything else i think we're overstating their control although clearly this is hurting biden are we though because again and well i began to intense what what that means that it's clearly hurting biden the opinion poll show that he's losing support amongst democrats now well they vote for somebody else that's a whole other question yeah but he's doing it anyway and as long as biden is president i think we're okay because he basically believes what he believes and is willing to risk his presidency and what he believes will he though because we're talking about the record low according to a fresh uh nbc news poll 40 percent uh uh um approval of his presidency um because of the foreign policy because of his handling of the war in israel it is an election year can he really allow himself to lose so much support over israel i think he's going to i think that's what he is i mean he believes in what he believes and i don't think he's going to give in on something that i think is his is one of his core beliefs we are very lucky because it is one of his core beliefs how long can he keep it up look he might lose the election and who knows what's going to be or he could be primary there's still a possibility he could be replaced unlikely but it's possible look he's he believes in what he believes in um and we have to at least you know answer to the request that he makes you know things whether it's the whether it's the two trucks of fuel every day or other things that he's asking for he's asking for it trying to help us so to speak trying to keep these people at bay as best as possible there's no way we're going to stop the progress of waiting for the democratic party from criticizing us at this point the images that people are seeing it's the leading thing in news already how many how many weeks are we since the since the since since so two days after the after we were attacked every single day the leading part in these are in the american news is pictures of poor guys are being bombed it has an effect there's no two plays about it the reality is they forget what started and the americans are really bad at context and certainly young americans are even worse at context these americans are getting their news from tiktok they're even getting it from reputable sources and tiktok has been 70 to 80 percent against us in terms of the views people are seeing and some of them will be leading the most powerful country on the planet sooner rather than later mr. lapin biden already talking about his day after vision this two-state solution palestinian authority at the helm the same day that palestinian the same palestinian authority is again not just denying the massacre but blaming israel for for killing israeli youngsters from bombing israeli is biden really thinking to hand over the keys to that palestinian authority i think he's pushing israel to try and think about what will happen after the war is over and i i don't think that he needs to push that hard because behind closed doors i am sure that within the israeli defense establishment and also within sections of the israeli government people are thinking about that day it's just that it's not being put front and center right now on the national agenda because we're in the middle of a war but it's clear that there is going to be a push to work with regional moderate sunni countries egypt saudi arabia to set up some kind of autonomy in the gaza strip an autonomy that will not brainwash its children for jihad and terrorism and hatred and hopefully we'll provide them with some kind of future that is saying compared to living under the hamas regime key things he wrote revitalized palestinian authority he didn't say the palestinian authority exists today right we talked about something different obviously look biden didn't believe he could get peace even before this war remember yeah he didn't want to touch the middle east because he didn't think it was possible to reach any peace agreement before he's not stupid he doesn't think we can reach peace right now either but he has to provide some sort of positive vision to maintain any support from the arab sunni world so i think he's stating it he's stating because no one has any other solution right then we talk about he's talking about two states i think we most of us agree that there is no other solution i just don't believe this is going to happen in my lifetime so that's the difference we all think that someday there is no other solution anyone's ever come up within two states yeah it's realistic except none of us believe it can happen now to be tested gentlemen i do want to bring up this reporter from the last few minutes initial reports according to sources in hamas selling egyptian media that there is a potential hostage deal and that's tomorrow at 11 am there will be some sort of uh i wouldn't say uh sees fire but fire will be seized again initial reports in egyptian media uh there is no confirmation for for these reports uh elsewhere at this point in time and yet um egyptians have been playing a key role in trying to mediate to broker about a a deal here mr lapin what do you make of it well we also had reports this evening of a special cabinet meeting here in israel regarding the issue of hostages we don't know what the exact content of that meeting was but of course you know israel has said from the beginning that if it is offered or it sees a viable deal that will release large numbers of civilians from hamas captivity it will be open to that as one of several means of freeing these people so i think we have to be patient and we have to be hopeful that many will see freedoms it's clear that israel will accept anything at this point well israeli reports now uh indicate that this uh simply incorrect uh but uh when one side is refuting the other up in the morning and find out perhaps something is happening but again be cautious yeah very cautious israeli sources are saying there is no such a deal perhaps part of the leverage each side is trying to put on the other marxelman thank you very much jacob lapin say what else we'll be back in a few minutes israel is at war make an investment in israel bonds it is the most powerful and direct way to stand with israel visit israel bonds dot com and invest now made for me a unique concept in israel custom made men's fashion to your measurements made for me designer of all your events schedule your appointment at www dot made for me dot co dot i l