 Hello everyone and welcome to a special, uh, I guess a bonus episode here on the procrastinators channel Today me and my airmanos are going to be talking about a little story. You might have heard of called the triflers That's right. It's the the world famous earth shattering book by our friend, monkey Jones here and We're gonna we're just gonna talk about it I just read it on the plane from anime expo and I finished it and I'm bursting with things to say about it and points to make and brilliant Bits of rhetoric to expunge for my being so that's why I'm here. I don't know what their excuse is for being here And I'm also monkey for book sales for book sales, of course, of course. Yeah, I'm just here to sell books I don't give a shit about you guys. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jesse just read it last night I also just read it last night. I uh, mm-hmm. I bought it like months ago. I read 10 Like 10 pages. I got a little like to the part where like dawn gets locked in the freezer And that's where I stopped and like I just like 10 pages to have I couldn't pick it up, but I couldn't pick the book up anymore because I just hate monkey so much But right um last night Because Nate had posted about it on Twitter. I'm like, oh god everyone's still reading that damn book I better finish it too and then uh, it was it was said that we do a podcast today And I was told that you know, we might we might get a new member of the procrastinators and I had to put a stop to that Because every time we have a guest on the show he becomes a real procrastinator That's how I ended up with monkey in the first place. So no more no more new procrastinators I had to put a stop to it I said god damn it if it'll stop someone else from being on this podcast I will read the book tonight and that's what I well now we're gonna start all these rumors We might as well save who this mystery man was who we wanted to prevent It was our it was our good friend and horrible collaborator the mysterious rhinoceros Grace of God there but for the grace of God goes a new addition to our merry bruise So I stayed up all night today reading the book I pulled a Mario Quintanilla only instead of teaching. I was learning We should say that Tom wanted to be here, but he's out of town right now. So we couldn't that's true He was actually you know in all fairness. He's the one who read it before any of us What the fucking talking about I read it first. Oh shit. You're right. I totally forgot because you don't matter Right, but Tom's the first real person. He's the first real person to read it Well, okay, so we're all up to speed. We've all fucking read this book and we've got the author here So so let's just dive the fuck in so um, I don't know should we should we just talk about our general thoughts on Having finished it. I've certainly got some Why don't you go ahead since you're like screaming yet the fucking Yeah, you're you guys Remarkably affected by it. It seems on Twitter real quick before you start. I do want to say that since I was a young boy My dream of being an author was to like go on book tours and shit But now just sitting in my bedroom with three of my Friends online my stomach is in knots and I feel physically So maybe I'm not maybe I don't have what it takes to go on a book tour with all these fucking people Well, that's what Maddox was like right during his first book tour as I remember in some interview But then he became the God we all know today, so don't worry about it This is all it's all part of the growing process as long as my fall from grace is 15 years out I think I'll be fine You know, you know what in all fairness I should say monkey is there any sort of preamble you want to give anything we should say before I don't know Diving into it just since you're since you're the main man I mean, I guess I'll just say we're gonna go into heavy spoilers probably but really Too much and if you've already read it, then you should especially enjoy the podcast And yeah, I'd say if you can I'd say go read it before listening to this If you can go buy it and then read it and then come listen to this in that order that would be best But if you want to listen, hey, you're gonna you're gonna get some interesting shit out of this anyway, so Okay, so so right off the bat It's it's very interesting the way that you've structured the book You know, and I'm just going with a super basic details here But the way that you structured it from from the perspective of multiple different protagonists They'll count as protagonists, right? Is that is that accurate? Is that the book lingo to use here? Whatever doesn't matter. The point is you've got you've got dawn You've got Mason and you've got Mario as as the main guys who who are speaking here So you've got Mario the school shooter Don the sociopathic manipulator evil character and Mason kind of the didn't do nothing good guy Genki Yeah, you should be sorry. This is professional work. We're doing here So, I mean immediately, you know, it took a while for me to figure out, you know Kind of what dawn's character was going to play into she's kind of like the main driver of everything that happens in the story For the most part except obviously some some shit goes down with Mario That I mean the book begins with we know he's the shooter. So it's not like that's a spoiler or anything We know he's doing the shooting. It's just building up to that point and so it's kind of learning backwards how things got to that point and really really what Mario might have done it regardless of what happened. He in fact, he probably would have but it's the way that that dawn Manipulates him and encourages him and makes things worse for him when it was entirely possible that things could have gone better I I have a gigantic written up analysis of dawn's character here in this in this notepad document that I wrote Well, we were what we were waiting to get together here Just going into specifically the ending and why she is writing because because for her part dawn's Input in the story is from the perspective of a letter written to her mother after all the shit has gone down And so I put together this whole big analysis of like okay So dawn is a sociopath who manipulated all these people in the triflers into doing some fucked up shit But but it's very interesting because every account that we've got here is in the form of sort of a journal entry or You know or Mario's manifesto or in dawn's case It is it's that letter written to her mother But the thing is that we learned at the very end of the fucking book is that her letter was written And I actually suspected this from the very beginning dawn's letter was written with an agenda It was it's full of at least several notable lies and it's possible the entire thing was a lie So just for example The the because don's with the character that I am the most fascinated by I kind of relate to Mason the most of course as I'm sure everybody does And Do you relate more to Mario? I mean, I don't know if I relate to any of the characters the story in the slightest Mason's a totally normal kid. I mean the fact that's got severe depression the one who I Felt like I understood the most was probably dawn though because of the twist at the end well because of the twist at the end it's hard to say because It's hard to say how much of what she portrays about herself is actually what she's like Like the character that's portrayed in her story Felt like someone I went to high school with but like a a more clever and more sociopathic version of that person But like seeing the big twist at the end Kind of puts it into this perspective where she has to be a lot smarter than the character she portrays because I think that The character that that I was reading out of dawn some of the stuff She would focus on in her letter. It's like you have to be a fucking retard or some kind of weird autist to like Like focus on these things, but then you see at the end Well, okay if it's all for a purpose and maybe she was doing that just to fuck with people, you know Well, see that it's interesting and I could tell that what Mumki was going for was was trying to make dawn At least in her own eyes seem like she's the smartest dude ever and that she's got all her bases covered But I actually made a I made a list of all the ways that she is weak and has made mistakes and all her failings Because I got a spreadsheet of her failings I did because I have great I have great hope at the end of the book that dawn is not nearly as smart as she thinks she is and so You know just just I mean the big question That's if the story that she wrote is like mostly true that she definitely is not as smart as she thinks she is Well, I'm aware that it's entirely possible Literally everything she wrote was a lie or fabricated which I found very interesting and I suspected that from the beginning when she Insisted that everything is 100% true because nobody ever is I don't know She's too smart to realize that she isn't coloring things with her own bias So that stands out to me immediately as as like a Something notable. So, you know at the end when she you know, she has the big bait and switch where clear, you know Truman Truman probably the worst character in the book in terms of like the worst person the worst person because he's just such a weak Disgusting piece of shit possibly even worse than Don You know, I will say he was You don't really hear from him until the very end Where we get some parts of his perspective and I I loved his character once we did just because he Monkey I think of all the characters in the story the one that you did the best job capturing is the like Semi-retarded beta male orbiter like well, he was perfect as that, you know, I I actually have some criticisms there I thought it went a little too far like the childish writing the spelling mistakes He seemed like he was literally retarded. That's the thing Is literally retarded wait, isn't that the whole point of the book is that every character is literally massively retarded? Well, there are plenty of mental illnesses to go around But I think only Truman descends into actual like much much dumber than the average person the thing is about this book is that all the characters really did remind me of people I knew in high school like and Him especially like I like I had like a face I could put to that guy Yeah, like I I hear I read Truman's lines. I see Jesse Woods face It's just a one-to-one Bam got him Um, but but that aside You know at the end like as soon as the shit went down. Okay, so I mean we're going all over the place here So eventually we'll get you know, we'll probably flesh out the plot more but at the end after Mario has has gone off to do his shooting spree and And Don has kind of She's gathered the trifle is the day afterward for a meeting like the way she is described and like this is why I don't think she This is I'll go through my list, but this is one of the many ways I don't think she's as that smart as she as she pretends to be or she thinks she is because like It according to her letter the day after a school shooting You know Chow's uncle Tao brings home a fucking dude for them to do their evil human experiments on and it's like How could he possibly think that was a good idea? And of course it's all a cover for smuggling out Truman and and explaining how people died and not and you know Pretending that it wasn't her. I mean, it's yes I remember did she pointed out almost immediately when I went to his house the first time like that's the plot of a Serbian film Don is clearly writing out the plot of a Serbian film because it's even the same name Yeah, the the guy who he captures is Literally the main character of a Serbian film like it's the it's literally that character is written into her story So she has like that's why I'm inclined to believe that that's the only part of the story That's like an outright lie because of the fact that she's basically just borrowing from a movie. She saw like, you know It's just so blatant that like which which leads me to believe that yeah She's not as smart as she thinks she is because right this one little chunk of story is so Incongruous with everything else that sounds realistic right and then this part just sounds completely batshit insane And also it's named after a movie character Which surely the police could figure out before too very long and and you know That's totally in cut in character with her because at the end we see that in her notes She's thinking of just naming herself after Lily which is Mason's little sister So obviously she is she is just pulling names for things. She knows for all kinds of stuff So totally totally consistent with with shit that she does Yeah, fuck Don, you know, let's just just just for the sake of clarification So Don is basically the ringleader of the triflers and as the story progresses. I mean she makes it quite clear She is a sociopath whose goal in life is to not really go out of her way to hurt people but she what she's going to do with her life is is perform a human experimentation like the Nazis and Sort of test the limits of human pain endurance and like what they'll do before they accept death and you just all that kind of Stuff that's not particularly useful But she is very interested in and she she spells it out quite clearly that she does not there's no moral Implication if she doesn't give a fuck if she's hurting people She just is interested in doing so and we'll do whatever it takes to get there So she kind of harangues the whole all the triflers She she gets rid of guys like Mason who are a moral impediment who would stop her through and that process of doing that Was to me by far the most disturbing part of the entire book Yeah, but like way worse than human experimentation kind of because um, I mean maybe it's just me being selfish But whole like kidnapping people chopping them up making kill themselves that kind of stuff that that almost seems cartoonish to me Whereas women You know false rape allegations doing the kind of things that she's done I could totally see happen probably happen every single day ruin innocent men's lives and Terrified me to my core that it could someday happen to me So I'm totally you should have seen me on the plane as I'm reading this book Surrounded by a grandma and some and some some hot little number on my other side as I'm just my face Oh Sitting on the plane raping this grandma thinking oh, I hope she doesn't falsely accuse me Exactly yeah, I mean that part of the book had the most impact by far not only because it felt more real But also just it was such a perfect like because the thing is to me at that point in the book was where I was starting to get bored and Particularly of Mason because Mason's thing is that he's kind of a normie like he's not he's not a normie normie And this is another character again. Well, I don't connect with nascent personally at all He was another one I could put a face to from my high school years because like there was always Like that guy who hangs out with kind of the freaks and we're who? Not And of course Mario would be monkey, of course, of course, yeah, well, I imagine Mario looking like munchie actually But uh wait that cut out looking like who like munchie but like a short short Half Mexican. Yeah, it's the whole thing but anyways Mason, you know, I knew a new kids in high school who kind of like hung out with the freaks and weirdos because their life Wasn't really like normal, but they it's not that they thought the same way, you know Like Mason doesn't he's he's doesn't have any like mental disorders. He just has a shitty home life So like he connects with these people who are much weirder than him because he doesn't feel normal Because his home life so shitty but like the way he actually acts is not like these other people who are all like You know actually crazy so right but like as you go through I kind of got that point at first like learning about his home life And stuff I was like, okay, you know, I've seen this I've seen this story before I know people who've been through this But that was the point of the character and then eventually it gets eventually though It kind of starts to get to like, okay I get Mason like he's because he doesn't really have a goal the way that Mario and Don do like does by the end Baby. Yeah. Well, well, that's the thing like at some point I'm like, okay I'm kind of sick of hearing from Mason and it's right as I'm starting to really get sick of him that the Tables turn on him and he gets written out in a big way and like the second that that thing happened where they say like the police Got to pick him up I immediately flipped through the rest of the book to see if Mason's name was at the top anymore and I saw that it wasn't and I Was like fuck Just that realization that his story has just ended like 75% of the way through the book was probably my favorite moment in the whole Book. It was by far the best most disturbing terrifies me to my core. Yeah, that's the real shit down Well, let's see here You know if you like I would love to go through all the reasons why I think Don is a piece of shit retard faggot bitch Just by all means well, okay. Just well not for a moment. Okay, so I wrote this down So forgive me if I'm if I'm just reading off my page here The content of her letter what utility is served by Dawn sending the letter Why would she do it ego and nothing more she's still human and has weaknesses now I'm aware that they're of the list of the list that is composed by Truman there are there are exactly four reasons given to why she would do it And I divide them into two categories one emotional reasons that add risk to her doing so and And add nothing other than fulfilling her own ego and those are freeing mason and taking credit for the riccardo fire Why in the fuck would dawn do something that in in any way makes her life more risky Just to help mason it doesn't make sense But but putting that aside, there's also two good reasons to do it factor. I thought it was being implied Especially through truman's dialogue at the end of the book that dawn actually did like mason Like she's actually in love with them. I thought unacceptable. There's no way that this if she loved him She okay, I mean That is unfathomable. I think she any feeling she has cannot be equated to love. I think that she no way I think she lied about uh the sex being terrible And that she actually had a thing for him because truman's getting like truman keeps saying how she'll get like He keeps saying like oh, she's getting way into writing about him or like that She's ignoring truman and stuff like truman who she's obviously using it doesn't give a fuck about well Well, well here's here's where here's where the black pills come out because love isn't a real thing Especially what does that have anything to do with it with it's maybe you're saying that she likes him What does it mean to like someone to be willing to frame them for rape of you or her little sister or his little sister She needed to do that to get to get out of what she like she needed to get him out of the way But then she still cares about him enough to free him Like um, that's not obvious to me. Monkey. Do you want to pitch in on this? Do you have an opinion? I thought the I mean, of course I do have an opinion because I know what happens, but I I don't like to answer questions in terms of uh people trying to like translate the book or are Interpretations because I mean it ruins people's interpretations. So I'd rather sit out on that one That's fair. Well, okay. I guess we'll just have to have a disagreement there But I don't see either of those interpretation that you had not even thought of though like Is the possibility that don is in love with him intentionally written into the book as a possibility Even I'll concede there's a possibility I just find it ridiculous because I think a lot of the last part of the book is clearly Throwing in lots and lots of implications so that you can come to different conclusions But without it being ever, you know, like how much of the stories lie how much of this and that there's deliberately no answer But there's lots and lots of implications that could drag you in different directions And I just thought there was a lot of implications suggesting especially in what Truman was saying about dawn writing the letter That she is in love with mason And won't admit it because she's too proud What okay, here's the thing though. I literally don't care about the answer to that question Whatever her whatever her feelings are. I were we're done with her feelings. Her feelings don't matter anymore Not interested. She has done these things. I'm just trying to explain that this is why I mean I'm not saying it was a good idea for her to this is why what this is why what what's the relevance here What's the relevance? I'm saying this is why she incriminated herself It's not that it was a good idea to do so But she wanted to get him off the hook because they're already after her like one way or another She's outed as the bad guy But so why not just stack the extra allegations on herself while and let jason skate if she like the mason skate if she likes him Well, that's fine But she is now she is now unleashed what she must have known would be at the very least a vindictive agent Someone who is not going to be too thrilled about the shit that just went down I don't think she's all her fault. I don't think she's smart enough to realize that he would like become a fucking vigilante hero man Um Yeah, okay, maybe but that see that's exactly what I wanted to get to in this way Don has shown that she is weak and that she has flaws and that she's not an impenetrable Logical fortress. I mean that's obvious. She has these kind of flaws and I just it just gives me hope It just makes me happy about the ending because we've got I forget what the guy's name was uh grimes The crime guy That's the uh the true hero of the book the only character who I found remotely relatable Uh, special agent ron clacker the great clacker. He's he's there to he's there to bring justice to the world That's all he has. He has a lust for justice. He's going to take her down in the sequel written by me I can't wait. I can't wait I actually would kind of love a trifler sequel written by jesse About like mason and that agent trying to take down don He teams up with truman sinclair who was the real mastermind all along He was he was playing that bitch for a fool the whole time now. He's just you know, he's just using her Now he's got this hot blonde girlfriend. He just wanted her to be blonde the whole book That was a whole plan and that was the gambit He's portraying himself like a humble beta orbiter, but in truth. He's the fucking omega male It's all part of his his machiavellian schemes to slam that plus When a beta goes that beta it goes all the way to omega his power circles around it becomes infinite My god, yes, it's kind of like retard strength only socially applied. Yeah same same kind of shit there Um, yeah, so so I read the ending as uh, I mean personally I don't feel I need a sequel at all because in my mind I now know that um, I mean it was it was clear all along But I know that don has flaws and that there are two hot male heroes on the case to take down this weak Cowardly woman and if ronda rousey can't take jesse then we know then we know that don cannot handle these two men Dude, I would kick don breckins ass. She's like a 15 year old girl I'd throw her in the fucking toilet So, yeah, I mean my impression of dawn throughout the story is that the way she's meant to be is just extremely pretentious Like she really thinks she's hot shit, but it's constantly evidence that she is not Um, not just in her actions, which are petty and retarded like because she's a fucking teenager And she acts like a teenager the things that she thinks are like a big deal are just not like swearing She's so obsessed with no swearing god and I knew girls like that in high school I knew people who were like, uh swearing is for um, you know uneducated people and stuff like I know that kind of pretentious bitch and like, uh, she totally reminded me of that So like the whole book I always saw her as like this grating pretentious asshole who was just Who thought she was hot shit and the only reason that she succeeds is that everyone around her is even more retarded You know, that's right. That's right in that moment when she like meets the detectives You you definitely have this sense of like these people are fucking adults and they're way beyond her and they are going to You know like Yeah, there's gonna be a way they can get her I mean, which is the end of the book doesn't really leave her with much prospect of like winning this one You know, like she's yeah, she's got all these things She's trying to do while she's on the escape, but none of it is very convincing that it's gonna work out for much longer Like, you know, they they figured out who she is They're gonna chase her down It can't be that hard to to catch this girl who has no fucking idea what she's doing She thinks she does but she's a fucking idiot and that's that's what I love so much about her The fact that she okay, so again just just to go back on that because I love shitting on this fucking bitch As I'm sure everyone does she just she just represents everything evil I mean forgive me for getting a little redpilled here, but she's like evil femininity at its worst Or at least she uses the tools at her disposals, but particularly with mason particularly with mason and manipulating truman and You know the whole the whole fucking thing there um But like the way that she's so Cataclysmically does not understand mario that and like does not know that one of her pawns Is about to go commit a fucking school shooting tomorrow Like and that's how you know she because the thing is she she sees herself as in control But she does this thing This and this I can relate to because I kind of do the same thing which is that when things Uh, don't go your way at all. You just reframe it as though Exactly, you know and she but she does that so much that it's obvious that she doesn't really have any control Like, you know, she finds out that mario's doing the thing. She's like, oh, well, um, you know, well, okay, that's fine I can plan. Uh, it's actually like this. Oh, no, actually this all works out No, this is fine. This is exactly what I had in mind. Uh, this is okay You know, but like the reality is that her plans are completely fucked and that she's getting foiled left and right And having to change everything and I mean, you know, you could do that for some time, but How long before? You know, it just pulls the rug gets pulled out from under her This bitch didn't even think to she she was so Fucking dense. She didn't even realize that joe was in the restaurant before the thing got burned down Didn't have any idea If there was a possibility that somebody would be there and that's just one of her many many mistakes along the way and uh Yeah, she doesn't know what the fuck's going on You know, we're talking about uh, you know, what a monster dawn is but we're not talking about You know the other actual monster in the book who actually committed the shooting Uh, mario who is just as much if not more of a retarded faggot and represents everything wrong with the entire world all at once He's uh, he's a stupid like uncreative unoriginal He only speaks in like in like 4chan copy pastas, which true I'm not sure He speaks in monkey videos I'm trying to say in a nice way videos are just direct Yeah, I recognized a few passages of just being your videos Well, you know if we're if we're segwaying from dawn to mario. He's basically a monkey jones fan is what he is He's monkey's entire fan base in one wretched body Well, you know the the thing is the even though i'm fascinated by dawn The the great thing about that is is that uh, and this is kind of the the reason I even wanted to do this And I was tweeting about this before as I was reading like the first half Dawn is pure evil and is basically irredeemable by her own account You know, maybe she could be maybe she's you know was talking herself up She's not actually such a sociopath, but according to her account She she's not changed at any time soon. She is a constant evil force mario on the other hand That's something that we can do something about mario is someone who could have been saved by society and uh, and and that's why Well, stick with me. I'm just saying that all the so dawn frames herself as like So at the end of the book she talks about how uh, there's a passage about how what were the trifles What makes a trifle or a trifle and she thinks about oh, were they all lonely? Uh, did they all have the same fascination with the macabre? No, it wasn't any of those things It's just that they were manipulable by me and I agree that that was the real problem here These people had so psychological vulnerabilities that she exploited And so the way we can help that and and we can talk about mario specifically because he's obviously the biggest one Um, though truman's no uh truman's no spring chicken either. He's a bit of a murderer himself Um, uh, yeah, like that's what opened them up to this shit to being able to be manipulated by things that we cannot change We cannot change what's going on inside dawn's head. She's always going to be evil But we can help with guys like mario and if he just had had some fucking friends He wouldn't have done this shit. Uh, and you know, it like I rewatched mumke's um Uh, elliot roger knows I didn't say rogers Elliot roger. I'm learning I'm getting better. Um, I watched that video beforehand and uh, the the the it was the two Questions that he brought up at the beginning of that. Um, why did this happen and how can we prevent it in the future? Yes, that's pretty much what was running through my mind the whole time thinking about mario I mean obviously mario is based on elliot roger and Of course, you know this the parallel is obvious. What were you saying jesse? Well like The I mean mario doesn't have any real problems all of his All of his sadness and depression comes from the fact that he is an obnoxious little spurred idiot Shit retarded butt boy who can't make any friends because he sucks. That's no one else's fault. I mean I think it's um unrealistic to say like, how do we help these people? Oh, we gotta we gotta go we gotta find the the weird little depressed people who are mean to everyone And who suck and just be friends with them so they'll be better. That's ridiculous. Some people just suck and they're evil Well, even if the answer is that we can't do anything about it until we have some sort of I don't know brain scanning psychopaths technology And then we can know ahead of time what people are going to do Even I I would just like to know if there's anything we can do and I haven't and you know, you're you're right You're right because uh, especially the way dawn frames it and I I love the way in this book the way, um There are different Accountings of different events and that the way like dawn I I love how mario goes into detail about like all the conversations he had with dawn about like Oh, how I want to like massacre everyone in the school and dawn was totally like, yeah I want to fucking, uh, you know hang them up by meat hooks and carve out their innards or whatever it was But dawn leaves that out of her story entirely Clearly framing herself. I was like, oh, I would never delve into that kind of like bullshit I fucking love that. That's that's that's really great. She's a pretentious bitch and mario's Mario has no reason to be he's completely mario is just as pretentious and deluded I mean he has these fantasies that he's going to kill a bunch of people And all the betas will be alphas now and no one will ever be depressed again. He's going to create a utopia I mean like Where do you even start with what could fix that nothing can fix that that's a that's a deep fucked up idiot delusion Yeah, well, that's what I you're not wrong personally like mario's parts are my favorite parts of the book because And like what what could have cost like nothing causes something like that. That's just there's something fucking wrong with you Go to you belong in the trash Yeah, I we that's not good enough. Damn it. That's not good enough I I kind of a I kind of agree with jesse because like we wouldn't know like a guy like this It's like like jesse just said we can't just like find a depressed guy and be like oh, i'm gonna be your best friend now We've invented anti-depressants and you can debate about you know the Ethics or the value of anti-depressants, but they don't make an anti-depressant for stupid There's no anti stupid look look it's like but but He clearly illustrates several several points in the story where I mean we're just going from his words here Obviously, but there were ways that things could have get better mario was never even on medicine at any point There's ways that things could have gone differently But no one could ever possibly recognize that like there's no way When the doctor in the when mario talks about how the doctor just blew him off and didn't take him seriously And said just go talk to your general practitioner or whatever. Yes, mario should have followed up with that But there were there were moments where things could have gone differently if the system was more You know like the system's always imperfect and that's the the problem with all this stuff is that they try to fix them Yeah, well But the the thing is the problem isn't that nobody helped mario the problem is that the system itself Needs fixing like it's not that he needed fixing. It's that the system needs fixing You need to have the doctors not be shit. You know and stuff like that. I agree and so yeah, but um personally reading mario's parts If this is my my biggest criticism of this book and this is something I uh, I told to monkey But I tried to avoid talking about it online so it wouldn't color anyone's perception who hasn't read it yet um, it's just the fact that It slips into self-awareness sometimes in ways that I think work against the characters because with mario Sometimes he reads like a parody of a school shooter and sometimes he reads like a school shooter and So even though that makes us part of the book hilarious at times, um, it also kind of deflates parts of it where There's moments I love like okay when he goes on and on about how death note inspired him That was like the perfect combination of hilarious and also totally I could see it But then there's other times where he goes on a rant that yeah does sound too much like Like a monkey video, but I know monkey videos when I watch them I could tell it's self-aware and it's not a fucking school shooter writing it So when he is able to have that level of like cleverness or to tell a funny joke I think well, elliot roger couldn't tell a funny joke You know elliot roger is fucking retarded his book reads like an an insane person wrote it You know mario Sometimes seems retarded sometimes he seems too clever and so when it comes down to the end where he just fucks everything up and dies It's like this should have been a more retarded character. I think you know I mean, I see what you're saying I don't know if I necessarily agree Yeah, there were times where I I thought I don't think anybody was a little bit harder I don't think anybody who commits a school shooting is a funny guy Because funny people have friends and it won't happen that What if well, but that's that's part of the but that's part of the delusion is what if the joker committed a school shooting Yeah, I'd be all smiles. I don't know if the joker is actually a funny guy Like is the joker ever actually said like a joke that makes you laugh Well, I would put a more camel and caesar amaro in the funny category of jokers But that we're getting off on a tangent about with jokers They're rating the funniness of jokers I feel that like the point of the joker is not so much that he's funny to other people But that what he himself finds to be funny is you know, uh, Terrorism, I guess whatever he does. What what does he consider? Uh, I think joker is a terrorist. I mean in the animated series He's a crime lord, but he's also in a mass murderer Yeah, all those things all those good things Well, uh, yeah, yeah, all right. That's fair. That's fair. You know, I'm pretty good at just diving into something And this is probably a negative on myself as like a critic I'm pretty easily able to get absorbed in worlds. I'm reading so there there weren't many times where I I Had difficulty separating like the monkey writing it from the character The reason I felt this way is because I felt so strongly that these characters reminded me of people That I've known before that like when they did something that was in congress with that then it would It would take me out of it a little like with with dawn Because she's so pretentious and so up her own ass and focuses on so many weird details in her story There were times where I thought she was too clever as well We're like she does something that I'm like, okay I don't believe that the person who thought that explaining every fucking detail of her work shift at the stupid goddamn ice cream Place was necessary is also clever enough to write this other sentence. You know, it's like can I Like like like monkey himself is better at English and in creative writing than the characters that he's portraying Even though he sometimes is trying to portray the story like Sometimes he tries to write like a retard and sometimes he writes clever and the two can compete is what I mean to say You know, I the only time I really felt like that was with Truman I mean unless I never got the sense. This character was actually retarded I I definitely took me for a loop got the sense that um that that monkey had stumbled upon a great scheme Of making his book impossible to criticize because it's written from the perspective of three terrible writers Yeah, true But that's and again, that's what I mean when I say that sometimes the writing was too good Like it's it's it's just inconsistent where sometimes it's like It's clever and funny and it feels like a dark comedy Which is how it kind of builds itself and then at other times it feels like you're just looking into the like when Again when Dawn goes into like everything about her work routine It was so fucking unnecessary and I thought that part of the book was completely boring because it it's not um It's not funny. It's not really relevant. She's just going on and on about everything they do But it does get you kind of more into the like I'm looking at and I'm thinking This is what a fucking 16 year old would write though Like she would think that this is all necessary because I've read lots of stuff written by teenagers because people teenagers constantly submit to me their work for my review and It's always full of unnecessary bullshit information. So reading a part like that Was more boring as a story but better as this is something a dumb ass 16 year old pretentious bitch would write Whereas other parts where it's like really, you know, there's like a clever twist And there's like a just right timed piece of dialogue or something. That's really funny. I'm like, okay, that was great Oh, what was the one I wanted to make them look like you Got them. Fuck wheelchair people. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that whole big dramatic twist part That was that was I died inside reading that I wanted to die. I definitely I like how he put her on the school shooting list by the way like she did anything fucking wrong Fuck you Mario you piece of shit All right, what did marissa do? What did she do? She did nothing. She did nothing wrong. You're the bad person. Okay, all right Go ahead. Yeah, I definitely um, I felt far more disturbed, I guess you'd say with mario's chapters than with dawn's chapters because um actual psychopaths like dawn The drop something actual psychopaths like dawn are you know pretty far and Few and far between and they're not as smart as they think they are and they usually get caught But people like mario are fucking everywhere Um, he is every four channel in the world. He's every internet commenter in the world and every redditor in the world They're all over the place. They're all too stupid and deluded to know how evil they are and how malicious they are And they're the real problem. We need to take them out. We need to put them In a fucking meat grinder just like you know, mondo burger you mess with curt you go in the grinder That's what I say What the fuck is mondo burger Is that the prequel to good burger? Yeah, it's the evil fast food chain in good burger. Yeah, that's right. That's right I haven't seen good burger in 15 years Can we just talk real quickly about do you think it is I was just wondering about this so nobody at any point ever Like provided evidence, uh, besides dawn's written word that there was actual like human experimentation that happened in that basement With like the first guy, we know the second guy was fake obviously But the first guy I found myself re-evaluating whether or not that was even true And if so because this goes into like why uh, she even wrote this letter like why give them all this material to like Look into the fact that yes, I am a super Psychopathic monster. I want you to know about the fact that I've committed these atrocities Like what what good is served by that other than just ego if it's just ego We can just write it off. Well that part is corroborated by mario's part I mean a lot of what dawn says is can be called true because yeah mario did say that they started doing that He said something about that. Yeah. Yeah, the uh, the fbi even brings it up. He says mario says He was responsible for two deaths and blue bitty blue Yeah, oh shit. That was two deaths. Ah fuck. Okay. Yeah, I fucked that up Incidentally, I wonder about if how the fuck does she tell anyone though? How many of uh, how many of the the kids's videos had you guys seen because I'd seen one man one jar before So that was a that was another interesting aspect of the story is how much of it is just real like well sometimes you It's interesting because some of them monkey made up and some of them are real videos So um, and it's because I've seen some of the real videos that it actually enhanced how disturbing the made up ones were Because like because I can't tell I can't tell how many or things I just haven't seen before So as I was reading this book probably the part that like disturbed me the most was just monkey describing Video tapes that the characters were watching because that was extremely. Yeah, because he'd always go in depth And again, I could never tell which ones are real and which ones aren't because there were so many Or at least a few that I knew were real that I had seen like one man one jar Which is the one where the guy puts a jar up his ass and it breaks and he has to pull all the shards out um Fucking disgusting video, uh, but like I've not seen that one. Thank you. Yeah, it's it's on like porn sites, but yeah, it's Like just just knowing that that was real and then thinking about like, okay. Well that one's real then maybe this one's real My mom just showed up with a bunch of food and drinks, you know, what what a bitch. I I'm so sick of her one of these days I'm gonna kill her and I'm gonna kill the whole world too and make it a a better place for podcasters like me That one moment where we're done describes, you know, uh, uh, Mario's mom is just being such a nice lady that one time Really really added a lot to when Mario just shows up to school with like her fucking blood all over his hands What did she do Mario? Did she deserve that? Is this justice? guess so Casualties of war I guess it's kind of funny that jesse made that joke because jesse does actually complain about his mom all the time And I have met his mom and she's an extremely sweet woman so Like that's why he hates mario hit too close to home. Hey jesse Yeah Oh boy like I remember when you told me or you were on a some stream and you were saying that um That uh that that boozy floozy was like friends with your mom and I was like, huh? I always thought jesse's like I imagined your mom is like, I don't know Like a total bitch or something and that I met her and I was like, oh, she's just like a midwestern House mom. She's just a mom Yeah, my mom is a saint and I always feel bad when I complain about her Yeah, well, that's good. You see you can shout out to jesse's mom and jesse's mom. Yeah Household is nice. I stayed there for a week had a good time Aside from the shit rot that I caught in the Baby Groot Let's talk about the real hero of this book. Baby Groot as he is the real hero of every book Yeah, he's gonna be a central character in my sequel It's gonna be a buddy cop movie with uh special agent dale cooper from twin peaks and baby groot and they're gonna take down They're gonna trap her in the black lodge where she belongs. I gotta watch the new twin peaks. I just remember about that Apparently it's shit. So Have you been watching it jesse? I have been watching it Okay Victor was just telling me that he just marathoned all of the original and then it's very very slow and very Methodical and they're really taking their sweet time with everything that you want to see but I wouldn't call it bad Like the people on the the people on the twin peaks reddit board are all of course kissing every episode's ass and calling me genius I'm not like I can see where they're coming from. I can also see where people would say what's boring, but I don't know. I'm invested I like it To be fair to be fair. I thought that the original series has a lot of moments where it drags and gets pretty boring I thought so too. Victor said he just like completely loved the entire thing Like both seasons all the way through the whole franchise is something that you just like you stick through the bad parts because the good parts Have enough trying to make up for it All right. Well now we're reviewing something like that. Well, yeah now we're on the twin peaks. All right We're off. All right. We're off that now. We're off that now. Uh, let's talk about Let's talk about mason just just to see what we can get out of the character of mason So it was interesting to me that you said did you that you couldn't really relate to the guy Because to me he was painted to be basically the normal everyman. Well, I'm not a normal everyman. Am I so well I wouldn't really consider myself to be one either But just as like a moral agent, you know, you know, it's interesting actually I would I would I actually love the character of dawn because dawn is exactly the opposite of me because while she is an amoral Uh, unfeeling psychopath wanting to hurt and kill people I am an amoral unfeeling psychopath whose only desire is to make the world better for everyone That is what I am This is my I I don't give a fuck who I have to crush on my way to make their life great I will do it and I will I will take hostages. I'll do whatever is necessary to make the world better for everybody and um so and and you know mason just as like the Maybe it's just that my connection to him as like this guy being you know, strung along by dawn I don't know dude. This shit really gets to me any of this kind of shit about an innocent guy just being I I know I'm gonna go off your red pill migtown date. We understand I I have such deep fear of the of the real power that women have socially over men and it haunts me It haunts me all the time. It doesn't you know why it doesn't haunt me Because I'm not a rapist That was he a rapist was here rapist jesse. Yeah lock him up. Here's an accusation. No actual proof What's that a bunch of hearsay throw him away fucking lock him up What do you mean no proof there was a little girl with come all over her that's proof that Doesn't matter if it's true or not. It's still proof She she she literally could have gone into the bathroom after he jacked off and rubbed it on herself There was no proof that he actually did anything. No, that's ridiculous. That would never happen It's it would never happen would never happen Incidentally by far my favorite thing that happens in the book is uh, it's really rubbing come all over herself Let's talk about that That's a shitty meme. That's a shitty meme. Look the incident is fine Uh, it's it's cool that people bring up that as like an an interesting outstanding moment Uh, it's just me. It's just me who brings it up all the time because it's Well, what I consider to maybe it is just you I mean when I sell the book to people I tell them there's an 11 year old rubbing come on herself Okay, see a thousand times more interesting to me than that is just the fact that a man is being destroyed for having done Nothing wrong. Well, sure. That's that's the emotional that's the emotional content of the book That's not the cell that's the intellectual content rubbing come on your body. It's not intellectually interesting. It's viscerally interesting I don't know if I agree that uh, I don't know if I agree that mason is totally Innocent or totally like a nice guy not bad at all. I mean, he's not He's not as evil as the other two, but He's pretty annoying. Yeah, and he's complicit in a lot of which is Block him up. He's a dumb teenager. He's pretty cringy Yeah, his desire to fuck dawn does Make him complicit in a lot of bad activity. What the fuck are you even talking about? It's clearly painted in the story that everything he did. I mean yes, it makes him take her words as joke The fact that mason participates in the triflers at all makes him a fucking retard Like all right, you personally have admitted to watching that that clip of the guy Are you are you first of all are you as evil as true? I mean, I never said I wanted to watch that video or that I enjoyed it in any way. In fact Oh, but you're just strong alone by society. I guess If you're too stupid to notice that the people you're hanging out with are weird gross grimy greasy pieces of shit Then you're probably just as bad. Yeah, I mean like he I don't want to keep him out of my eyes. Look, he got played. I will fully admit. He's weak. I mean, he's definitely weak You're not you're not evil But being a certain level of stupid to me is complicit in evil I just think I think mason Uh, it turned a blind eye to a lot of things because of the fact that he wanted to fuck dawn I think there's a lot of shit. He could have recognized He could have seen where things were going But he let himself be blinded because all he cared about was how badly he liked this girl And it's because it was an escape from how shit his life is, you know, his he hates his dad He's trying to get out of the house He's you know trying to finish school and all he's thinking about is like this sort of fantasy This escapism that he gets from imagining that he's gonna get to fuck this girl You know and hoping that she'll like him and like that it's an escape from his life But it's allowed him to turn a blind eye to all the bullshit going on in the triflers, you know Oh, yeah, it's not like he had any desire to like move away and save his little sister He only cared about fucking this girl. You guys are totally blown over Where the fuck did I say any of it? Why do you keep putting words in my mouth, Nate? You just paid it that you just paid it that way Like I was his only concern When did I say that? I did not say that I said that he's so worried about it. He's so concerned about it. I didn't say it's the only thing he's thinking about I said that he is blinded Because his life is shit and he can't do anything about it So he's obsessed with this girl and he's thinking about her all the time And it's he's turning a blind eye to all the bullshit just because he can't you know, he's He's doing it because he can't get away. He can't escape yet He wants to but he can't so he needs something to keep him fucking sane And that thing is obsessing over this girl But he should recognize at some point that a don is a piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck about him And that should have been obvious from the beginning He should have recognized that all of her friends are pieces of shit that the kind of videos they were watching is fucked up I mean this guy is not into this stuff. He's admits himself. You know, he doesn't find these videos interesting He's concerned about these people But just because he wants to fuck dawn so badly He'll just go along with all of it just keep saying yes And that's a dangerous kind of thing that totally happens You know the going along with it is you just continue to show up to meetings and watch stuff It's not like he ever agreed like because that's the only thing he had to go because he was too good Because he would have stopped because he has a moral compass whereas the others are you know too weak I uh I found uh masons a lot of masons chapters to be pretty uncomfortable and particularly cringy because I Could relate to them They did remind me of stuff that I said back when I was in high school like the parts where he's Talking about you know his girlfriend and dawn and like you know trying to like scheme his way You know out of one relationship It really reminded me of like the way I used to think about girls all the time when I was in high school So that was really cringy of me because you know relating to it doesn't make me not able to see that it's fucked up and Evil and stupid just like the other two's behavior. Um, I Uh, well stop stop. It's like you're putting him on the same level as the other people. I'm not. I'm not Okay, we're talking about look, let's put him on a scale. All right. I'm cause I'm evil Complimenting he's writing you Claude by saying that fucking all the characters Were equally uncomfortable, which I think was the intent for different reasons and and Nate you you gotta understand This is like saying, you know, you got you got uh, you got dawn She's like aro manga sensei level bad, right? And you got mario kintanita and he's like the asterisk war bad And then you've got you've got mason and he's like re zero bad, you know, he's re zero bad But they're they're just a sky whale of a human being Masquerading as a man. I legitimately think it's unfair to call mason a bad person. I don't I'm not calling him a bad person I'm just saying that he's A little complicit and not totally innocent and that I Think that he's an annoying teenager, which you know, fuck and he's boring Which is the worst thing that a person can be look. Look. I just want to be like if you're saying that he's guilty I think you'd have to say that like I question whether I think he I question whether he's also a sociopath like mario and dawn I mean, you could almost call the book two sociopaths and a psychopath I think I think dawn is the psycho, but I but I you know mario's obviously a sociopath. I you know, I wonder if he really Gives a shit about anyone but himself because all of his writing and everything his narration is all very focused on Himself what house how are things going to turn out well for him? He doesn't really a teenager dude. He's 15 Exactly all teenagers like sociopaths Yeah, oh wait, he's he's a he's a he's a I question whether he really even cares about his sister or whether he's just you know He wants to help her to feel better about himself or something because yeah, he the way he talks about his girlfriend He obviously doesn't give a shit about his girlfriend He doesn't really give a shit about dawn other than he's infatuated with her because he wants to fuck her He wants to slam that puss It's ridiculous to say he doesn't care about his sister He would literally antagonize his dad so that he would beat him instead of the sister. How can you argue that he doesn't care about I'm not arguing. He doesn't I'm just saying I wonder I'm saying I wonder I'm being well here's some proof to the contrary. All right fine I I just and and and for what it's worth the second that lily did something Of her own accord that that you know, he completely turns on her like that Yeah, as soon as she takes those like pictures that he starts sounding exactly like mario Oh, yeah, yeah, he was mad at her and then he got over at the next entry. What a bad person Not to be mad at someone. Why do you keep blowing this way out of proportion? Nobody's saying he's a bad guy We're saying that he turned on her like that's some sort of like he yeah, that's not a good thing It's not a no one said it was irritable you mother fucker. Yeah, it's normal normal people suck normal people are horrible It's normal for people to be shit half the time half of their lives What what what context are we coming at this from from having normal human expectations for characters or expecting them all to be literally perfect Paradise of goodness. I'm going for normal person here worse things happen to mason than he deserved But he's not a great guy. He's just a shitty teenager like every other one you knew in high school He's no look mario and don are worse than anybody I've ever known. Yes Nobody I well, okay. That's not fair because I knew a school shooter So marios is bad as the worst guy I've ever known it dawns may be a little bit worse But mason is just like a lot of kids I knew in high school who were just fucking dumb Burnout kids who didn't know what their lives sucked So they had no plans and they just fucked around and they made a lot of bad decisions He didn't deserve to have the things happen to him that did but he's not a good guy He's not someone you root for he's just kind of a shitty little teenager Who gets a lot worse than he deserves, you know, but like at no point was I like Yeah, mason you go until the very end where he gets like a and it's only because he becomes the punisher Yeah, it's only because like so severe of stuff happens to him that yeah He basically has like a superhero backstory now and now he's interesting at the very end But like throughout the book he's fucking completely lame and that's kind of the point That's why it's actually kind of cathartic when all the bad shit happens to him because it's like Oh, thank god. We wrote out the boring guy and now we get to focus on the cool characters for a while, you know like Fuck mason You guys are ridiculous. I don't agree I disagree that his chapters are boring. I think they were, you know, just as interesting as the other two characters I thought they were interesting at first, but eventually I just but uh, but I do definitely think uh, fuck them Yeah When he writes when he confesses In in his entry, I mean, of course, of course is the normie. Of course. He's got the least interesting thing His uh, you know, it's not like his problems weren't the worst of his problems actually were the worst of any character And yet he puts up with it the most he is the best person despite having the worst situation You know what name you've swayed me. What I agree. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, that's objectively true I mean again Like it's just that his problems are all real stuff that most of the people I know have gone through and like it doesn't it Most people don't Go through most people who are in that situation don't then get put into a far worse one like he does And most people don't become a vigilante superhero at the end of their story Um, but you know comes and mason's mason's will smith Mason's problems were stuff that I was like, okay. Yeah, this is what most of my friends were going through in high school They had shitty home situations. They I mean I hung out with a bunch of fucking, uh, you know Like potheds and stuff who were just trying to do anything to get away from the house because their lives fucking blue You know, they had shitty parents who didn't know how to take care of them because they had kids when they weren't ready And they lived in the ghetto like that was a lot of my friends. So mason to me was like, yeah, I know this guy I know this story, but he's not my friend. So I don't care about him the way I care about my friends, you know I agree He had the least interesting things to say up to when things turned But the the point of the character is that he represents normalcy. Yeah, and of course that's not going to be fascinating Relative normalcy. So I I don't disagree with you at all But to say that he's like, well, I mean, okay We already talked about like if he's complicit and yes, I will 100 agree His his own idiocy, you know, everyone's idiotic to a degree if they couldn't see what was going on here Uh, obviously shot him in the back, but like like the the impetus I mean, obviously if you're dividing this up by percentages I'm just saying he's got to be like tiny compared to what's going on with these other people. Well, sure. Obviously, but we're comparing We're comparing again Re zero bad, which is to say five out of ten, you know strong five light six if you if you're lucky to two guys who are bottom of the barrel worst scum of the earth You know a school shooter and a fucking A mass killer like these are the worst that we have to offer Any big brother who protects his little sister from abuse from an abusive father. I would put above a fucking like average He's better than average, but okay, whatever. Did he really protect her though? Or did he just get her beaten up more? Oh Whatever, let's move on. I we know the answer to this question Uh What else is uh, how about how about uh, my dorain? Uh, dobson, I believe was the male name, right? Is that the uh, the the trans the pretentious asshole trans person Again, very character. I've seen I mean, it's I'll tell you man. Monkey you portrayed an obnoxious sjw pretty accurately with that character like In the name. I think was dorian and donovan. It was donovan dorian Donovan was like I want someone to make a dobson joke as in the little, uh, blue bear guy I mean, it's it's easy enough to make fun of like a, you know, sjw's and stuff and and and save Okay, they're all obnoxious pretentious shitheads, but like it's not even that I think there's plenty of sjw's who are like fine this person though. I have this is exactly the type Who gets on you on tumblr, you know, like this is the the the portrait of the stereotypical sjw But they do exist. There are real people like that and well, you know, this is the character I This is the character. I think I most felt the hand of mumkean as in like, yeah, by the way Fuck these people. Uh, don't like them. They're totally real like they are real and And and I thought he did a good enough job of like making it. It didn't feel like um It didn't feel like just a parody because of the fact that he addressed the backstory that that she that he became this way That that he wasn't always like this but like now that he's learned the rhetoric of this movement of the social justice movement He's developing these feelings. So even though he still hangs out with the fucking triflers who are like these Terrible terrible people watching horrible videos. Like, you know, he's still hanging around But he's trying to like convert them to his new age like beliefs and stuff And I thought that was totally believable. Like I've seen people make that transition before That is very interesting and that no pun intended Right, true. It kind of shows the character's like deference to power in that, you know, once once, you know Because in her life, obviously she's following trends. That's that's what she's all about. Um Which you saw like, oh, I can get attention if I'm trans. So I'll do that I mean just not that ultimately like that, but that's what this character was and and Not to distract from you too much. Sorry, but Um, I actually thought I felt the hand of monkey perhaps too much Just in the fact that the characters like like dawn goes on this whole thing about how she's like, you know Oh, I don't have any problem with trans people. It's just the way that this character has to do That's weird. I did feel that that felt a little too defensive Where I was like, why not just make her hate trans people or something or like mario when he I think he has a part where he Does something like that with either trans or like blacks or something. He has some kind of like defense Logic and I was like, no, just let him be a fucking racist. He's already a school shooter, you know It did kind of grade on me after a while and annoy me that all the characters sort of talk in youtube videos Yeah, like they'll be like in the middle of a conversation and dawn will just lapse into like an editorial on You know mario does it too and you know, it's like I said before about not really being able to criticize it because I don't know if that's intentional or if that's just the way that like dawn writes, but doesn't actually speak I mean it felt a little too true It really felt a little too editorially at some parts. I agree. There were I noticed that in moments and um Yeah, like she would literally in her dialogue suddenly transform into a youtube video sometimes and I think that's I mean you can defend it all you want. I think it's clumsy writing. Monkey was 20. That's how 20 year olds, right? So, uh, you know, I'm gonna blame monkey for that one. Yeah You swayed me. I'm gonna blame. No, he too the one time. Yeah, it was definitely during the the Don't get me wrong I'm saying that because if you go read my light novel that I wrote when I was 20 that happens all the time Characters will lapse into an editorial because I was used to editorial writing So, you know, like in the middle of a conversation a character will like psychoanalyze himself to explain to another one Um, so you should be nisei oisin. You're a genius. He does the same shit and he started when he was that age so yeah He never grew out of it. Uh, the the only whatever I don't it's silly to go back to a boy I'm just gonna finish my point anyway. It was just like that durian She was a bitch to social pressure decided to be a cool trans person and then when uh dawn asserts yourself as the leader of the group She notices she she she bows to the new authority in her life Which is dawn so shows that she is a weak spineless person too. There you go. That's just the character Uh, how about how about I mean there's not a lot to say about chow or chow's uncle Because chow's uncle first of all, um, but the more interesting of the two Uh, just like a war vet who got a taste for blood wants to kill people Thinks it's really cool. Those two also fascinated me in a way and I have to ask monkey Did you have asian friends like that before? Are you talking to me you cut out? Yeah, yeah, did you have asian friends like the the two the the brothers? Uh, yeah, every single person in the trifelers is based off of one of my high school friends Yeah, I I figured because that particular brand of asian household is familiar to me of like, um The the kids the you know the the younger generation of the household just being super Disaffected because their parents are from a completely different culture and they just don't even know what's going on with their kids Like there's a level of disconnect like you can tell the mother It just literally does not understand her children because they are american and she's not You know and so like she just tries to be the default mother because she does not understand what the hell Well, what one's her brother, right? Yeah, well, yeah, but the brother brother is younger than her I think by a by a good amount and he he being ex-military He kind of reminded me of like a an evil version of um My my friend my asian friend don son who has a cousin who lives with them Who's who's like that age and he's like similarly a very like physically active outgoing guy you know mostly kind of quiet but like Watches a lot of movies and does a lot of travel and like lots of interesting random weird things and like this The the you know the older guy, um kind of reminded me of that Uh a little bit like it they just everything about the way that house was described and the way the kids act and everything I was like, yeah, I've been in that house before And to some extent like not that exact one, but it's like an accumulation of different asian households I've been in and I totally got it Um, I thought it was cool because the whole time I was picturing, uh this veteran chow's uncle as rambo You know the returning vet. He's back. It's really bad enough case to open up back. I just want to hurt people now Look at my fucking youtube videos guys. Yeah, that's uh, that's my rambo impression. That's um I don't know I was picturing like like imagine You know that scene where don walks into his room to like tell him like hey Let's start experimenting on people Imagine like rambo in the corner just like sitting there all bunched up just like uh, I love his laptop I love that she pretentiously criticizes him for having a pulp fiction and fight club poster That really stuck with me because I would totally have Those you know like I it it it was Yeah, that's what that guy would have of course he would you know like yeah, he's gonna have two Good hyper masculine films and his fucking, you know, well one's a hyper masculine film at least, uh And the other one's comparable like yeah, why wouldn't he it just A lot of the character details in this book really definitely resonated with me like every character felt like somebody who I kind of knew And you know, uh, I feel like mumke's high school friends are probably not dissimilar from mine In in that case I do want to mention about chow was that his character was an experiment on my part to see Uh, how full fledged of a character I could create who has zero lines of dialogue in the whole book Yeah, I was going to comment on that. Yeah, I was gonna see if you guys even noticed that you didn't say a single word But only towards the end like there was a moment where I suddenly was like This guy's never spoken. Has he like, uh, yeah, I thought you did a pretty okay job Like I mean he's obviously like the least interesting character because of it But I felt like I understood his character in spite of it I sort of like Spaced out his entire existence in the story. Yeah, like I thought like the chow's uncle was just a guy called chow's uncle It's isn't it fascinating though that the the more active interesting character there would be referred to as chow's uncle Well chow was just a non-entity in the in the situation And I I will I one moment that really stuck out to me was when uh, when after the meeting after uh, she and and tau You know the the uncle talk, um And they they announced their plans to the group and chow just looks bored. Yeah very very interesting very interesting Response and I want to know what's going on with this guy. I like that because I feel like he's just So Utterly doesn't give a fuck that it like none of it matters like he's just he's a super alpha He doesn't give a fuck about anything. I mean I I feel again like I've known I've known people who are kind of like I I assume he's probably a pretty smart guy who does well in school And like but but doesn't give a like has no particular opinions about anything just doesn't care Just lets life pass by because he doesn't he has no aspirations and and no Nothing to care about he's just letting the people around him control and he hangs out with these with the triflers because Probably his options are hang out with asian kids or weirdos Because you know as an asian kid You're probably not going to hang out with like jocks and all the like white kids or whatever You know so you're going to end up hanging out with like the either the freaks or the other asians and he ends up hanging out with the freaks You know Yeah, I love casual racism. Chinese people can't do anything being racist I'm anything being sympathetic towards This is what like towards towards the weaker race of asia. I mean I understood my group of friends I mean I was the freaks in high school, you know and like That's who are you saying that asians are the freaks of society? I'm saying that oh no like for instance My friend Brandon Tolentino he hung out with this guy arne pretty much exclusively because both of them were filipino And so they hung out together even though they weren't necessarily friends They just hung out because they were the filipino kids and that's what you just end up gravitating to people who are your race My high school is extremely mixed So we had like probably half the school was black half the school was white and then and you know Some percentage of other ethnicities and like the black kids all hung out together and the white kids all hung out together And the ethnic kids all hung out together and the only group that was like super mixed Like you know, they're they'll be mixing here and there, but it was the freaks and weirdos who was A true multicultural group because we're internet denizens and stuff. We don't give a fuck, you know We're we're outsiders. We don't feel like we're part of our race. So that's how a kid like that ends up with a group like that I think Yeah, yeah, he was in a bit of an enigma to me. Um Well, shit, uh What else we got have we talked enough about mario specifically because I feel like we we might have Glazed over him a little bit in our in our rush to talk about other guys. I love the way he's fat He is fat. Unfortunately. I think the the best thing about mario In his presentation in this book is that this book shits on him in a big way Like because I know he's based on elliot roger and monkey's done. He's read the entire elliot roger you know Manifesto and all that and one of the things about monkey's relationship relationship with elliot roger Is that he does make fun of the guy and point out that he's a fucking retarded idiot? And that's a big part of this book is that mario spends this whole book building himself up and having all these grandiose opinions and in the end he accomplishes almost nothing You know, he just he goes in he kills one guy who is the guy who stopped him Who becomes a fucking martyr and a hero for all time, you know His target as one of these people that have to be disposed of was the hero and save people The real the real lesson to take away from it is thank god that mass killers are always the weakest most beta Pathetic people in society because if they were strong like me, we'd all be doomed Well, you know if they if they had avenues if they had levers at their disposal to climb social ranks and alleviate their issues They probably would but they that's the thing or I just pushed to the point of desperation I love it because I feel like most people if they heard about a mass shooting book They would assume it's going to in some way glamorize it or pain It is like this big epic thing and the book there's a lot of build-up to this school shooting So you're thinking it's gonna be this like huge epic bloodbath or a big action scene And instead the book goes way out of its way to undercut it as harshly as possible And so if you you know, let's say someone tried to read this book thinking Oh, I'm like like some edgelord's like oh, I want to read about a fucking school shooting Yeah, and then they get to that part and it just slaps them in the face with how retarded a school shooter is And how badly he fucks up, you know I hope the school I hope that edgelord's the world over read this book and realize how that's not Yeah, you got to be a little bit like dawn and realize that school shootings are highly inefficient at changing the world and uh God it'll cure them if they're beta depression mario's plan will finally be fulfilled We'll have a college school after all Mario's biggest problem to me. I think was a lack of self-awareness and even when done Clearly every school shooter is a lack of self-awareness. They don't realize It's just not realizing that it's your fault Not the world's or or that the people who it is their fault You're completely misguided on who they are like elliot roger There's people he could have blamed but he didn't blame those people, you know He blamed the girls who wouldn't sleep with him Because they literally he just never even asked so because he never like so mario You know his his rage is completely misguided and the book points that out and shows This book paints mario as a fucking idiot and it paints his his revenge is pathetic and it paints him as a failure And I think that's great because I don't think that a lot of I don't think there's a lot of people who could have written that And still made it feel real like there's people who would have uh, You know imagine like a normie guy writing this book like someone who like heard about a school shooting Who's just like some guy that read fucking 13 reasons why or some shit like that, you know And that's the problem with 13 You know, there's a the netflix series airing right now and victor pointed this out that In that show there's a character who they're building up to be a school shooter But he doesn't have the personality of one He doesn't act like what a school shooter would act like that any anyone could point that out Mario is a completely realized school shooter But the book still shits on him for being that you know, and I think that's a cool aspect of it that uh Was it was definitely one of the funnier twists in the book to read him Just like utterly get shit on and fail horribly and it was like Dumb fuck which I mean I mean the guy who I know the school shooter that I grew up with who was a friend of mine when I was a little kid Um He didn't even get to accomplish it because he made youtube videos bragging about all his guns and how he was going to shoot up a school And so he got busted because he's fucking retired. So Man, what about that american hero who tackled mario and wrestled the grenade out of him and blew up? That's brice brice. Whatever. Yeah. Yeah, and what's great about that is that brice dallas thundercop What's great about that part is you know, mario had portrayed that guy as like this Asshole normie piece of shit, but he's clearly like a yeah, a total hero like he saves Well, that's kind of that's kind of what that's kind of what jesse says all the time about he was Aspires to norminess. You know, regardless when you're when you're an outsider of society It's easy to just demonize everybody or view them as you know, because they're ostracizing you and they must be evil but and you know to a certain extent it's kind of like um Uh, you know like a uh an outsider mentality like if you're not one of us Uh, you know, we're gonna treat you like shit, but at the very least at the very least these people are they're pretty good to each other You know, they they want to protect each other guys like brice Not a bad guy. Certainly not a bad guy probably has parents in the less than he may have been out of fuck He probably has like parents in the military who while strict with him and therefore he acts out They nonetheless are like very proud people like very america's a beautiful place. You got to protect your citizens You know, I bet that's the house he grew up See that that's the thing about guys like mario or even guys like, you know, isis or whatever like they they're viewing individuals Not a not a fan of that guy, uh, yeah, like these they they paint You know, like the whole terrorist and mario is literally a terrorist Like he's hoping to inspire terror to make society change. That's literally what what terrorism is and um uh Like you have to view people as part of a collective because he's just Mario had specific targets, right? Of course, but mario didn't care to like look into their stories And and you can see this clearly that he was not even interested in diving deeper when he starts painting people like marissa This angel who gave him a chance and was such a wonderful person to him That he did everything wrong to and destroyed his own chances with he says like I would have loved to have killed her too But she's not at this school because it's all about him and how he's the sad one and how you know, uh The why hasn't life been nice to me exactly what elliot roger was like that. He was he wanted to kill his own little brother who He literally loved and who never did anything wrong and he wanted to kill him So he wouldn't turn out because one day he will have sex. Yeah one day. He'll have sex and that's unacceptable That cannot happen. What a fucking monster uh Not a fan of that guy, um, which is why you know, uh, just on a little rant here I I get pretty pissed when people like uh, lion eyes elliot or like celebrate him in any way because he's just a monster That no one should like admire in any way Uh, there's probably i'm sure there's a great deal of irony going on here, but uh, you know the water's getting muddy to some points So I guess i'm just saying uh, don't get carried away with it folks He's not a good person. He is a literal murderer if you saw you he would kill you so keep that in mind Uh, do we have anything else to say about the book any any un untapped any um, Shit, monkey. You know what you want to hear us talk about about your book Uh, no nothing specific I was just gonna say I've been waiting over a year to hear people have an actual conversation about this And I thought it would like when I was writing and I thought it would never happen I thought nobody would read it So this last hour has been like pretty fucking great for me Like even even the parts where you're shitting on some of the writing i'm thinking Yeah, finally somebody is acknowledging what I did That's great. That's great. All it takes is a hero like Nate bestman to read your book and bam instant Well, I instant celebrity. I mean I talked to monkey about some of my issues with it back in march But I again Wanted to hold off till more people had read it because I was literally the first person to read it because I got an early copy Um, so I didn't want to like air any of this out and like, you know When people get it in their heads that they're gonna read it that way like if anyone listen to this podcast before reading the book They're going to now read some of our criticisms into it But uh, but they'll also read our more in-depth analysis into it. So, you know I just want to say that I'm uh, I'm immensely proud of you monkey that you Actually wrote this book and published it yourself and that you have An actual like a real novel under your belt. That's amazing to me It's um, it's a thing that I haven't done and it's a thing that I respect immensely far more than any Ridiculous retarded youtube video Of course I would say this book is the only thing I've ever made in my life that I'm proud of like all the youtube Is just like a fucking joke to me compared to this thing Well, that's nice I'd say that just on a on a on a I don't know a literary note. I guess this thing was an absolute page turner And uh consumed it, uh voraciously and and loved reading it and it was really really good I will say I read this book at a night because I was trying to read it before monkey got to my house Um, incidentally, I read the entire book while non-stop listening to slipknot corn and maryland manson Um, and I would highly recommend you do the same so you can get into the school shooter mindset But uh, I read the entire book listening to the stone cold steve austin podcast talking about wrestling Um doing it for the working man. Give me a hell. Yeah, I will say that I think the early part There's there's like this book has a lot of build-up and I do think it's probably longer than it needs to be Um, I think that the midsection is the weak point when when we get to dawn working at the ice cream place Like up and like when she gets locked in the freezer pretty much everything from that onwards is great Like that's where the book really takes off is after after she gets out of the freezer and all of her schemes from then on All of that is fantastic. Um And the early part where the setting up the characters is good But just that midsection when she gets the job and she goes into so much fucking detail about working there I like had I not been trying to finish the book that night I would have been at risk of not finishing the book just because I read books while I take a shit a lot of the time I try to get through like a one chapter per shit and if I read a whole chapter of just dawn fucking describe your workplace I would have been like, okay My name is don bracket. I work at gerry queen. I like to be mean to people and torsion people. I'm a really smart girl That's the whole book Yes, yeah, that'd be great that as dawn's voice as at all times through all her I wear pick stocks because I'm a girl Well, I'm fucking exposed. Uh, I uh I wanted to say that I yeah, like I I loved reading this I tried my best to finish it in one sitting but uh, I am a genius, but I could not finish it in the four and a half hours of my first flight So I took till I came home from from the trip I was on Uh, it was it was wonderful. I I was thoroughly entertained the whole way. I I did not find uh the The like I I was in hard enough by the point where she got to that Where I was I was totally willing to to take the journey that dawn was providing me of like Exploring her workplace because I knew that it was leading to something and and when the place burns down And you you get to think about all the all the details that you gave us all going up in flames I enjoyed that immensely and uh, I don't know. Maybe I had more patience or something for better or ill Uh, I was I was disgusted on deep levels, but in the right ways I was I was provoked. I was I was made to think about real things And and I'm a very I don't know a very like issues driven kind of guy And you really presented things in a way that that that that as you've shown that you're quite capable of doing Uh, you know really made me think about the real issues going on here behind the scenes Not just a fucking puff piece about school shooters now cool. They are You really got down to the deep issues and I could it seemed to me, uh, uh that a lot of it came from You know not not to Go crazy with conspiracies here, but like like you you really understood You know like the the the motivations that would go for a character like mario and and the way that you're able to construct this You know not not like a complete ripoff of elliott or anything, but like this new character You know having all the the just a real clear understanding of why someone would be driven to this point I thought was fascinating, especially as someone who has probably never had anything close to clinical depression For me it was a very educating experience to just kind of dive down into this world and and see what it's like down there and uh And to to I don't know maybe hopefully be able to use this experience to do what I think you want people to take away Think about how to actively avoid this shit in the future and and see what we can do, but uh That's that's where i'm at. It was great. I loved it to summarize my thoughts. I mean, I think this is a really impressive Book and piece of work especially for having been written by a fucking 20 year old Um because again, I get inundated with people sending me shit. They've written all the time I usually can't make it past the first paragraph or the first page This is from people who you know tout themselves as writers like People who really think oh my god. This is what i'm gonna do and I love writing and they send me something and it's bullshit Um, you know, I expected it to not be shit because your videos aren't shit But when I was started reading it, I didn't expect to be like hooked and actually want to read the whole thing and I did Um, you know, it's obviously it's interesting if we could get this much fucking conversation out of it Which is more than I could say for a lot of stories and uh Um, you know, I had a good time. I would say, you know weak parts aside It's still a really interesting book lots lots to relate to lots to connect with and for what it's worth I'm extremely excited to see where you'll go later because Writing unlike any other medium is not something that anyone is a master at young There's never been a like world famous author who got world famous Before their 30s like everyone has to work up for that. What about the famous author harry potter? His series of autobiographies sold up trillion copies Yeah, I think the only outlier would be esse hilton who wrote um the outsiders when she was like 16 But otherwise you're pretty much right. Yeah authors authors never blow up huge when they're young It's one of the only mediums where like you really have to study at it for for a long time And so to be putting out something impressive enough that three relatively harsh critics mind you, uh, are I mean, I at least I am a relatively harsh critic if this wasn't interesting. You'd know Yeah, you would definitely know me. I'd let you know so to have written that at 20 I can't wait to see what you will be writing by the time you are 30 if you're still writing fiction Um, and if you still have ideas that are at least, you know, half as interesting as this one Um, I can only assume you'll get better as a writer as time goes on. So yeah, I you know I think I'm with digi on the fact that I think simplicity might be key for your next work So when you're writing that and you say goodbye cruel world and you're heading off to that rope hanging in your closet That uh, you know, just just leave it at that, you know, just leave it at that I'm saying kill yourself Closer Nailed it. I think we should all agree that next week. We'll come back together and review that anime snobs book in the same Uh Someone should read that and let me know how it is though. I was told it's an autistic version of dune Okay, that sounds like what he would write. So i'm not surprised at all by that When did he write this? When did he write it? No idea. Hmm. All right. It's like a year ago Oh, we should have had him on this right now to review the book. What were we thinking? Did he read it? Hello everyone, it's me. I came in for the last part of the podcast. It's me Yeah, he's never gonna read it because I won't send him a pdf Yeah, what a piece of shit Well So long. All right, everybody go buy the triflers on the link in the description if you haven't read it yet and you'd like to um Written by monkey jones. He's proud of it. We're proud of it. So uh, you know And we're not just saying that because he's uh, and maybe someday we can be proud of him too. Yeah Sounds good. That's the whole point of my life is to make my parents proud I haven't done it yet, but hopefully someday Well, here's hoping thanks for listening everybody. See you next time. Bye