 here. Hey Fred, this is Dan and Stephanie Burke with Devine Intimacy Radio watching Devine the Scenes. We are having some technical difficulties today, so we're going to try to roll the show anyway, so you can pray for us. And if we run into too many difficulties, we will simply reschedule, rerecord. But before we jump into the show, I want to tell you about something that's coming up right away. We're having an Evening of Hope Christmas special with me, Stephanie, Dr. Anthony Lillis and Father Ignatius Schweitzer OP Monday December 20th at 7 p.m., so if you want to be blessed with hope and hopefulness about the coming of the Lord and join us and during that time go to spiritualdirection.com forward slash events. That's spiritualdirection.com forward slash events. And I'm sure Brother John will send that out to a million people as well through his email list or something. I don't know, we'll see. But why don't we go ahead and jump into the show? Steph would all start us and then would you intro John? Sure. Okay. On your mark it said go. Welcome to Devine Intimacy Radio. This is Dan and Stephanie Burke and you have joined your radio Haven of Rest. Your Hermitage of the Heart. Your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw upon the wisdom of the saints, the magisterium, the church to help us to better understand the pathway to God. And today we're talking about a a little different angle of that pathway than we usually talk about and that is how to understand and argue or defend the faith which builds the virtue of faith, hope, and love because we gain in our knowledge of God. And Stephanie's going to introduce our special guest to lead us through this into this interesting topic. Hey, I'm happy to introduce John Martinone, a longtime friend of ours from the Birmingham area. He's the author of Blue Collar Apologetics. He's the founder and president of the Bible Christian Society, former host of EWTN's open line radio program, and he has spoken at hundreds of parishes and conferences throughout the U.S. His talks on various apologetics, apologetic topics are available for free at his website Biblechristianssociety.com. He writes a bi-weekly apologetics e-newsletter Apologetics for the masses that has over 44,000 subscribers from all over the U.S. and close to 100 countries worldwide, which you can sign up for at his website. He is the author of Blue Collar Apologetics, How to Explain and Defend Catholic Teaching Using Common Sense, Simple Logic, and the Bible. That's by Sophia Press. Welcome to the show, John. It's good to be with you guys. Thank you for having me on your program. So, John, just talking about apologetics and I'm gonna, I told you before the show you're welcome to disagree. You're a feisty dude anyway, so that wouldn't be a surprise to anyone, I don't think, but you're welcome to disagree. But, you know, from my standpoint, like what I do, what we do, which is spiritual theology primarily, what I find most helpful about apologetics is not as much in the realm of convincing people in the faith, at least in my life, but more in the realm of helping people, especially like in a Catholic family with young kids, you know, teenage kids, you know, latter late teen kids, helping them to get answers to the reasons for their faith, for their own faith journey. Am I off base on the value of apologetics in that sense? Not at all. In fact, in my production, I say that my primary audience for the book are Catholics who understand their faith, because as we, as Catholics, better understand our faith, know the really what we believe, because so often Catholics know the what of the faith, but they don't know the why, and we understand why it helps us to anchor that faith deeper into ours and our souls, and we grow closer to Christ through that knowledge. It goes from the head to the head. So yes, apologetics, first and foremost, what I do is for Catholics, as Catholics, as we better understand our faith, we can then better explain and defend our faith. Yeah, you know, I agree. Just a funny thing that happened. I was once listening to the late great Rush Limbaugh, and he misunderstood the word apologetics. Of all people, a guy who's kind of a master of the English language and a communicator, I remember him saying, I'm not apologizing for anything. So I think it's probably important to start with, what the heck are you, why are you apologizing for things to our family and our kids and to the world, John? What is that about? Why would you write a book about apologizing? Right. Well, I'm sorry, man. I didn't mean to. Apologetics is based on a Greek word, apologia. Some say apologia. Ancient Greece, an apology, or an apologia, was the case alloy of its client. So as a Catholic Apologist, I am making the case for the Catholic. This Apologist would make the case for the Baptist faith and Presbyterian Apologist for the Presbyterian. So an apologetic is simply an explanation and or of the faith. Awesome. That's well said. So I'm going to pause here just for a moment. For our live stream viewers, we are breaking up. We're surmising that it's just an unusual blip in internet traffic. And we've done everything we can on both sides to deal with that. We're going to keep going with the show. And then for our editor, you'll just have to try to edit out those delays and we'll add more content. This will cause your hair to be as bad as abundant on your head as John's. But we'll try to add extra content and time for the editor to make the best out of it. And if you can't fix it, then that's okay. We'll just have John back on again, which will just only be a double blessing. So back to the show. Stephanie, you want to take the next question? Sure. So how does this book compare to all the other books on apologetics out there? John, what's the difference in it? Well, it's similar in the fact that, okay, it uses Bible verses to help Catholics to better understand and talk to Protestants. Because if you're talking to a Protestant about the faith, you have to use the Bible. Pope says what Vatican II says, what the Catechism says. So you have to use the Bible. So in that respect, it's the other apologetics books. Where it differs is that I teach four strategies. So I don't just teach you the what of apologetics and the why. I teach you how you do it. These are the strategies that you can use. You don't have to have the Bible memorized. You don't have theology. You use simple, common sense strategies. And then as you learn more about the Bible, but first apologetics is based on common sense and simple logic. I mean, I've had nine year olds using my materials to evangelize their nine year old old friends. So it's accessible to everyone, no matter your level of education. And on common sense, these strategies are based on common sense and simple logic. And then you start using a little more of the Bible, which I help you introduce you to, and how to do that in the book. Apologetics, defending your faith, evangelization becomes fun. You don't run about the Bible and Jesus anymore. You look forward to them because you are going to plant some sweet people. Yeah. So this it's one of the things I like about your style, John, is, you know, not everybody can be Scott Hahn as we you and I have talked about and and have to have this or another guy over at Catholic Answers. What's his name? He seems to have everything, everything in the universe memorized. Yeah, Tim. Yeah, either of those guys are Trent Horan. They're all amazing, right? So they have this great gift for memorizing things. And what you're doing, though, is you're saying you don't have to memorize all this. You just have to have a sense of some key strategies to use. I want to throw out another thing here that I think is a common misunderstanding. So if we exit the family, which we started with, which is the place where you need to teach your kids these strategies, and I'd recommend John's book, Blue Collar Apologetics, in particular, for homeschool groups and, you know, devout Catholic families who are looking to help their kids understand how to think about communicating the faith. So but so now we're leaving the home, right? We're out in the marketplace. You and I both, all of us here live in Alabama, which we're, you know, we're like two to 3% Catholic, 300% Baptist, right? So a lot of then apologetics also comes to play with encountering people who don't agree with us. You know, my dentist yesterday was preaching predestination to me. He's a Presbyterian, you know, whatever. So the, but the one of the key thing, one of the key central lies that Catholics believe in comment on this is that Protestants know the Bible inside and out, and they're very formidable in discussion with, with respect to defending the faith. Do you agree or disagree with that? I disagree, wholeheartedly, few exceptions, but the most of the Protestants that I've talked to, and I've talked to probably a couple, three years or so since I've been doing this in person on the radio, and they have memorized a certain number of verses to deal with Catholics. The Catholic knows what's coming at them with just one or two questions. The Catholic can cut through these, this memorized attack pattern, if you will, that they use with Catholics. And so memorizing, and I tell people, you know, memorizing is not the same thing as knowing Scripture, because Protestants have notative guide behind them. All they're giving you is their personal fallible opinions versus Scripture means. Catholics have the teaching authority of the Catholic Church, and so when a Catholic, you know, whether we can quote book chapter and verse or not, we have a better than Protestants do because we have a fuller understanding of it, and we've got an authority to help us understand it better. Yeah, so I agree with you. I mean, so I were one, right? I memorized Scriptures to evangelize, and really I think when you look at the data, the average Protestant only knows a handful of Scriptures up to about 20. If that, I memorized 22 Scriptures. You remember the Romans road, you know, all of sin and fallen short of the glory of God, and Romans 10, 8, 9, and 10. If you confess that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart, God is raising from the dead, you shall be saved. You know, so I memorized all of those, but as you say, a Catholic, especially a daily Mass-goer, is going to be exposed to far more Scripture in a given year than the average Protestant. So I don't, Steph, I know you've got another question on your list, so I'll be quiet. Okay, so I'm interested about these strategies, John. You know, what are the strategies that you use in your book to combat, you know, these challenges to our faith? Yeah, the strategies in the book and the force, what I started, when I started giving talks and started writing my newsletter, after a few years in talks that I had done, I realized that there were common threads running through each of the talks and developed into these four strategies. And the first one is easy, everybody, anybody can use an ignorant Catholic strategy. And all that is, is that if you're ignorant as a Catholic, and someone asks you a question and you don't know the answer, well then you just say, but you always follow, I don't know it, but I will find out and get back to you. And that lamb, let's say you start talking about Jesus to somebody and they start hitting you with Bible verse after Bible verse and you're going back myself into, and they ask you a question like, where in purgatory is the Bible? The Bible. So what do you do? Well, if you use a Catholic, don't know how to answer that, you say, what's it? I have to be honest with you, I don't know the answer, but I'm going to find out and you're out of a jam. The second strategy I call- John, before you go off to the first one, off the first one, I want to make sure we repeat it. One thing you said is, if somebody asks you where in purgatory is the Bible, I would tell them, if they had a Bible in their hand, I would say in your hand after you die, if you're not fully purified, but that's another thing. So the first strategy you said is that you just make sure that you don't try to be something you're not. You don't try to pretend you know something you don't know because you make a fool out of yourself because you're going to argue from emptiness. So you say, I don't know, just be honest, but I know there's an answer and I know where to find it and I'll get back to you. Did I get that right? Yes. Yes. Don't give anyone a half baked answer or your bed or well, I think maybe, just know, just like be humble. I don't know the answer to that question, but since you asked it and once I look it up, I'll get back to you with the answer. Great. What's the next strategy? The second strategy I use is how to be offensive without being offensive. And all that is, is questions. Catholics are always on the defensive when it comes to discussions of faith with Protestants. Where is baptism? Where in the Bible does it say Mary was immaculately conceived? Where in the Bible is purgatory? Where in the Bible always on the defense? Well, we need to learn to answer those questions, but we need to also to learn how to ask. So someone could ask, where in the Bible does it say anything about Mary being assumed body and soul? Very easy response. Where in the Bible does it say she wasn't bonus on the other person? And, you know, where in the Bible does it use the phrase, soul? Where is that in the Bible? Where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the only body for all things Christian? You learn how to start asking these questions that I've got my book with the kinds of questions you can be asking Protestants. So it's just, you won't, you went, but you don't want to, you know, just beat somebody over the head with the Bible or the Catechism. You want to do keeps them coming back for more. And you do that by simply asking questions. Make them the student, good student, ask questions. Great. You know, John, with what strikes me about this, and I think it's something that we don't realize, but Dan has mentioned this before as a former Protestant. And that is that a lot of Protestant denominations define themselves by what they're against, right? They spend their time studying this and arguing against what they don't believe in or what they don't agree with, right? And so they're in there, you know, looking in their Bibles, talking, studying, practicing their talking points. And I think really the onus is on us as Catholics to be wisest serpents and gentlest doves and to take ownership of our faith and our religion and study. You know, I remember that, you know, our daughter, when she was getting ready to get married, she had some struggles. And she said, I really have the responsibility to my future husband and to any children that the Lord gives me and to those who love me and want and need me to take ownership of what's going on with me and to find the answers and to get, you know, and to find healing in this, right? So I think that's the invitation to all of us. We have a responsibility to learn our faith and to own it and not just allow ourselves to be sitting ducks. Because some of these questions happen when you're standing by the water cooler at work or when you're a teacher in a Catholic school and or in a secular school. And somebody challenges you on why you believe what you believe or why do you think and say what you'd say. And we should go deeper than just because I was taught that, but rather enter in fully to our faith and take that responsibility to be able to speak to the joy that lies within us. Like why do we believe this is true? So I love that your book provides answers and also the strategies, but calls us to that responsibility to take ownership and say, you know, I'm going to find out and I'm going to stay open to you in relationship rather than run from conflict and then go hide in my corner because I don't want to deal with the conflict. So you know, it's just really important on top of what you're saying just to add to it. I don't know any holy Catholics. I mean, honestly, like people were really making spiritual progress who are not reading scripture regularly, like the daily readings in the mass ahead of the mass or lexiodivine or whatever. And gosh, if you if you just start doing that every day, the Lord's going to it affects your mind and your heart and you're going to remember things and that gives you. But then also, John, what about like a catechism in a year? Have you seen programs like that? I don't even know if they exist. Well, when I tell people that and there really aren't in terms of apologetics, I haven't come across a really good systematic program that you would have for say a semester course or or something like exactly what you guys are saying is God will put you if you rules of engagement that I have in the book is learn a little bit about your faith every day. One thing about your faith, let's say you take the catechism and you go to the back to the index and you say, I want to learn something today or the Eucharist or the confession and you read those paragraphs. Take five, ten, five, learn something about your faith or you go to scripture and read a chapter, two chapters every day and God will put you into situations where you can use those guarantee it because that's what's happened to me when I would learn something all of a sudden me to ask me a question just about that thing I just study is like oh wow is it isn't that at a co-win so just learn a little bit more about your faith every day don't worry about having to will never know everything a little bit every day and then use the strategies in the book and you will be you know what's important about what you're saying John to to encourage people to crack open their catechisms is that it's really beautiful writing a lot of it is very almost poetic and it's gorgeous and it's full of scripture and it really can be entered into as like divine reading and really spend time in that even if you just do a little bit for your spiritual reading every day it'll really change you it's really exquisite that's not like a lawnmower manual no I mean I I think people tend to look at it and go you know that's rules and regulations it's not it's gorgeous and and it's I believe it's inspired because it comes out of the heart of the church it is the core of what we believe and and so it's really something really beautiful to encourage folks out there to pick it up and hey John I think as I'm listening to the show today I think that if we ask our editor to make this into a normal trust or radio show I think they'll go quit so just because of so many of the cuts cutting it out and we're getting I was hoping maybe we'd get delays and transmission where we get half of a word and we connect it with the other half and make it whole but I don't think that's going to work out very well so here's what I want to do I'm going to invite you back on I want to tell all of our listeners live stream okay you can hear us you know to some degree make sure you pick up blue collar apologetics I think you know if especially if you've got if you're a homeschool family if you're devout Catholic family and it's something you can read with your kids talk about the basic strategies John I will say about John bar none there are no there is no one in Catholic apologetics in my opinion that is more down to earth than John I mean there are other apologists who specialize in certain things Trent Horn's an amazing debater you know Scott Hahn is amazing in his explication of the depths of scripture you know so all these guys are great John has a unique place in terms of the accessibility so there's no one who's listening to us who who knows the English language that will pick this up and not benefit from it so it's published by EWTN and Sophia and stupress you can get it at EWTN's religious catalog and then also make sure that you go out and check out John's website Biblechristiansociety.com which is a brilliant name by the way fitting with his evangelization and then what we'll do is for those of you out there a little frustrated because you want to hear more of John go to Biblechristian society there's a ton of content there pick up blue collar apologetics and you'll you will be blessed John John is extremely helpful easy to understand the the easiest to understand apologies out there bar none so as we close out on the live stream and then we'll reschedule John though for another one where we kind of redo this in a way that's easier for you guys to hear evening of hope christmas special monday december 20th 7 p.m central spiritualdirection.com forward slash events we only have nine seats left for our divine intimacy and marriage retreat february 11th 13th in in next year at the shrine of the most blessed sacrament in handsville maybe john will bring his wife and you can you can meet you can meet him there john if you're looking for points you know under the christmas tree big time like you won't ever have to get refill your points again i don't know or maybe it'll last you a few years depending on how fast you deplete them but divine intimacy marriage retreat february 11 through the 13th shrine of the most blessed sacrament in handsville also at spiritualdirection.com events two other things and we'll get out of here introduction to elizabeth of the trinity one of the i think she should be a doctor of the church one of the great saints of the interior life starts on january the fourth and contemplative prayer in the beloved disciple starts on december 22nd so that one's coming up pretty quick both of those you can find out at avala-institute.org avala-institute.org john sorry that we couldn't fix the technical issues you're a good man i'm happy to reschedule and have you back on thanks for your patience well um yeah maybe we didn't have these technical issues yesterday when we tested it so i don't know what's going on so all right brother well it's great to see you and all for all of you you you can do the normal exit exit if you want stuff until next time may the god of peace make you perfect in holiness may he preserve you whole and entire spirit soul and body irreproachable at the coming of our lord jesus christ amen amen thanks john we'll we'll uh we'll double check on our side and make sure it's nothing over here and then we'll get you back on the schedule