 Coming up on DTNS, what war in Ukraine means for technology and how to make a pie torch into a Winamp player. This is the Daily Tech News for Thursday, February 24th, 2022 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Redwood. I'm Sarah Lane from Austin, Texas. I'm Justin Robert Young and I'm Roger Chang. The show is pretty. There is a longer version of this show. If you want to hear more of what we have to say, get good day internet because it's a good time and you can get it at patreon.com slash DTNS. Big thanks to our top patrons, including Peppergeese, Eric Holm and Carmine Bailey. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. Researchers at Tel Aviv University uncovered vulnerabilities in Galaxy S8, S9, S10, S20, S21 phones, all of those. That store cryptographic keys through arms trust zone system, making it possible for hackers to access encryption information supposedly protected with dedicated hardware. The trust zone operating system or TZOS runs alongside Android, but its cryptographic functions offered a weak, poorly documented link in the security chain. Now, Samsung released a series of fixes between August and October of 2021. That's good news. So if you've been dragging your feet, updating your phone, now is the time. Always patch, always patch, patch, patch. Motorola announced the Edge Plus, known as the Edge 30 Pro, if you're outside the United States, comes with flagship Android 2022 specs, including a 6.7 inch 1080p 144 Hertz OLED screen IP 52 weather resistance and supports a separately sold active smart stylus with pressure sensitivity and remote functions, very similar to Samsung's S Pen. Moto promises three years of security updates with the device. Pricing starts at nine hundred ninety nine dollars. So keeping it above the thousand dollar mark for a flagship coming to U.S. carriers in the coming months. Oppo announced its flagship Find X5 Pro phone offering typical 2022 Android flagship specs, including a 1440p 120 Hertz OLED display, a ceramic back and IP 68 water and dust resistance. It offers a pair of 50 megapixel sensors for its primary and ultra wide cameras, as well as a 13 megapixel telephoto. The cameras were developed in partnership with Hasselblad and use a new in-house developed by Mari Silicone X Imaging NPU with claimed improvements to low light video. Pricing and release dates are being finalized by region. Just about a year and a half after Motional and Via announced a partnership to study autonomous vehicles and their role in public transportation. The two companies are launching a Robo Taxi shuttle service in Las Vegas and it's free. You just have to gamble that it will work. Motional is a joint venture between Hyundai and Aptiv and Via is transit software company that used to operate on demand vehicles in New York City and Washington, D.C. Starting today, Motional's BMW Robo Taxis are available for you to hail through the Via Mobile app in downtown Las Vegas from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. Monday through Friday. They will have human drivers aboard if you're worried about that. But Motional says future cars will be Hyundai Ionic 5 electric SUVs. So if you want that bigger ride, you might want to wait. You may recall the stories noting that Meta's warning in its annual report that if a new legal framework for transferring data between the US and Europe was not worked out and if it couldn't rely on standard contractual clauses as it does now, it would, quote, likely be unable to offer a number of our most significant products and services, including Facebook and Instagram in Europe. It's met his duty to warn shareholders of this possibility. And it's not the first report in which it has done so. The hope was that a new framework would be agreed on soon. Wednesday, the EU's VP for digital strategy, Margaret Vestiger, warned that a replacement is not a done deal, though. It is a high priority, though, for a full understanding of where the process is and how it relates to the EU's recently proposed data act. Read Natasha Lomas's excellent work over at TechCrunch. That link will be in our show notes. All right, let's talk. We're going to talk a lot about the technology stories related to the war in Ukraine. But let's not talk about that yet. Instead, let's talk about Reddit. Yeah, some good news. If you use Reddit's mobile app, unless you liked the old way, I suppose, because Reddit launched a new mobile app redesign for iOS and Android. This is the first major app update in over two years. It's kind of been chugging along, but it's going to look a little bit different if you go ahead and update your app. It includes a new Discover tab, personalized recommendations, and also a new community and profile menu, all in its navigation pane. The Discovery tab is kind of the big one. It's going to show a vertical feed of subreddit recommendations like pictures, gifts and videos, all very visual stuff based on your engagement patterns, what subreddits you frequent the most, but not your demographic data. So it's kind of wants to know about you, but tries not to give you stuff based on too much personal information. NSFW or banned or quarantined subreddits, quarantined or subreddits that display a warning requiring you to explicitly opt in to view the content. Those won't appear in Discovery, makes sense. Reddit says that user feedback prompted the Discover tab because people wanted a better way to explore new interests. It replaces the former communities and subscriptions tab along the bottom. It'll be represented by a new compass icon. Don't worry, you still have access to communities and subscriptions. There's some swiping going on. It's just buried in a different UI. No AIP API, rather for now, though. So if you're using a third party Reddit app, you're not going to have access to at least the official version of Discover just yet. I was confused at first because this is only on mobile. I was looking for it on desktop and it's not there. I don't know if they're going to bring it there. So I went to mobile and I looked at it and it told me that I might want to discover the Carly Ray Jepsen subreddit. So I don't know that I use Reddit enough or in enough different ways. I look at the Daily Tech News Show subreddit every day, but maybe it just doesn't have enough data on me. Justin, what about you? Yeah, I mean, I am a fairly extensive mobile Reddit user and they have been integrating community recommendations for a while now with some success like every once in a while, I will take advantage of it. Other times it shows me an R slash anti-workpost for the billionth time because that subreddit happens to be exploding in popularity and it is adjacent to some of the other kind of stuff that I do. So it's good about being in the social graph. The problem with Reddit has always been mobile and really design in general. What they I think have gotten fundamentally right in their spot in our social media landscape is the fact that they really do empower mods and that allows communities to kind of be as tight knit or as wild as they might be, but they've never really cracked exactly what that website should look like. In the grand tradition of all great message boards, it kind of is an eyesore, but that's not the point. Yeah, I think it's interesting that the take on this in a lot of places was Reddit has reached has entered the modern era by putting an algorithmically driven discovery tab in like all the Instagrams that everything do. I guess they needed it. I don't know. People seem to not be against the idea, but I don't know that it was stuff that people were clamoring for. Well, according to Reddit, enough people were that they thought that it was a good idea. It's also the idea of a discover tab is very ubiquitous now, whether or not that's not really something that I do a lot of in Instagram or TikTok, those are just two examples off the top of my head. But it certainly is a way to discover new content and new communities. So, you know, believing that that's actually true, Reddit didn't also take away any functionality and and in the announcement of this new Discover section, the company was quick to point that out. Like you haven't lost your communities tab. You haven't lost your subscriptions tab. That's all still buried in here. It just is just going to take a swipe or two. Well, folks, if all this talk about discovering things, has you feeling a little social, why don't you get in touch with us? You can talk to us on Twitter at DTNS show. We have a Facebook page as well. And you can find us on Instagram DTNS picks DTNS P I X. Despite the Beijing Olympics, attempts to promote a message of international cooperation, Russia declared a peacekeeping operation and mobilized land air and sea operations to invade the military actions were accompanied by cyber attacks on government websites and servers. It was 2008. That's what I'm talking about. Russia invaded Georgia in support of two self-declared republics in Oaxaca and South Ossetia. That was 2008. That was 14 years ago. But they say history rhymes 14 years later right here in 2022, shortly after another Beijing Olympics. Russia once again declared it would conduct a peacekeeping operation in support of two self-declared republics, this time in the Donbass region of Eastern Ukraine. But the world is reacting much differently to the Ukrainian invasion than it did to the one of Georgia in 2008. Now, Daily Tech News show's role is not really to help you understand the war. There are plenty of other places to go to do that, including politics, politics, politics a little bit. And we're going to talk about some of our favorite resources a little bit later for for wider coverage on this, but we can help you understand how it might impact technology and what to watch for regarding that. Let's start with cyber attacks. Even if they are targeted at Ukraine, Malware often leaks out elsewhere on the Internet and the attacks may not focus solely on Ukraine. So it's good to be aware of this, even if you're not in Ukraine. We mentioned yesterday that denial of service attacks continue against Ukrainian government and financial websites. That has not stopped. The Verge notes that Cloudflare is reporting that Ukrainian ISPs are mostly operating with the exception of some connections in Ukraine's second largest city, Kharkiv, disrupted. In addition to denial of service attacks, ESET says it discovered a data wiper malware installed on hundreds of machines in Ukraine. In one organization, attackers had appeared to be able to take control of active directory and then push the wiper via the default domain policy. This is one where collateral damage could get you. Maybe it wasn't meant for you, but maybe that wiper shows up in your system somewhere, so it's good to know about it. Security experts expect continued attacks against Ukrainian technical infrastructure along with continued social media campaigns to try to erode trust and cause confusion. Wired has an article from Justin Sherman detailing some of the difficulties in defending against Russian-based attacks because they extensively deploy proxy attacks by encouraging loosely affiliated organizations to work on their behalf, many of which are not located in Russia. So you can't just block Russian IP addresses. And cybersecurity scholar Justin Peltier and Rochester Institute of Technology believe that Russian-sponsored cyber activities are likely to increase outside of Ukraine as well, particularly in the United States, including propaganda campaigns to confuse issues and promote distrust. Similar activities are reasonably expected to happen in the UK and EU as well. We've got other things to talk about. Let's pause on the cyber attacks. It's important to be aware of this stuff, even if you're not necessarily directly in the line of fire. Absolutely. I think that there are a few things that we should we should keep in mind here. Number one, while both of them involve the Internet, I do think that it's helpful for us to separate out cyber attacks like denial of service and malware from the idea of propaganda. It's not to say that they are not often from the same areas, but one of them is a different threat than an info war. And when it comes to the malware and the data wiping, what I find fascinating about the situation here is because cyber crime is something that is so cheap to do and it is done all the time by various different governmental and non-governmental organizations. It's interesting to look at who influences who the most. Is the state run source the leading edge of the spear? Are they saving things that only a state actor could have the budget and ability to put forward? Or are they just copying the best techniques because they are being refined out in the wider world all the time? That these are real, real issues that we do have to focus on. And it's it's interesting now, like you pointed out, that it was in 2008 that they they were still doing a lot of the same stuff, obviously on a more sophisticated level in 2022. But now we report about them in the same way that we were reported about the bombed out airport in in outside of Kiev. Yeah. And it can affect more people because there's more connectivity than there was 14 years ago. It's you should always think twice before believing something you see on a social network these days, right now, maybe think three times, four times. And, you know, that that that part of it, that the idea that propaganda campaigns are just going to be more prevalent and you really got to check the sources and use good judgment and all that stuff is like, we have a whole long way to go on that already. So the idea that that would be ramping up or potentially ramping up is a little troubling to say the least, because it's already such a problem. You know, this is this is like a daily fight that people have on the internet of you're not paying enough attention. You're just blindly retweeting that video and that video is fake. And here's why. And, you know, that's it's like 30 percent of the conversation. Yeah, we'll get back to this when we talk about sources at the end of this segment. But let me just say this, when it comes to getting your news information from social media, that is a peacetime treat. We do not have we do when we are talking about time or we should probably not be going on the dumbest websites on the planet in general. This is before we even get into state run adjut prop, probably just to try to find slightly more sober level headed sources than the things that are getting the most retweets on the bird app. And just like you will redouble your efforts to button down security, even though you should always be trying to be secure, redouble your efforts not to be part of the problem. Don't don't be don't be challenging something and thereby accidentally passing it along. You know, when you retweet something critically, you're still exposing it to more people than it would have been exposed to before. All right, let's turn to how it will affect tech business. Ukraine is home to hundreds of startups, tech firms and a lot of research and development offices for big tech companies like Google and Apple TechCrunch notes that companies in Ukraine include Grammarly, the AI grammar checking company. A lot of folks rely on Grammarly. Face swapping app Reface, fairly popular. Maybe you don't rely on it, but it's fairly popular. Pet Camera Maker, PetCube, software company MacPaw, wireless security company Ajax, Language Tutor Marketplace, Preply. Those are all mentioned in the TechCrunch article on this. It's hard to tell how these companies are going to be affected right now. Many have cloud services that allow them to operate outside of Ukraine. Even their payment processing may operate outside of Ukraine. And even staff outside the country, giving them some resilience here. A productivity software maker called ReAdle based in Odessa, Ukraine have executed continuity plans and told TechCrunch they will stay up and running. Cloudflare's data center in Kiev remains operational, though Cloudflare said it has removed, quote, customer cryptographic material from servers in Ukraine in the event that the data center was compromised. Even though that stuff was encrypted, it won't even be there if somebody gets a hold of those data center drives. Yeah, can't be too careful, I suppose. Can I speak up in favor of the COVID-19 pandemic? OK, OK, I wasn't expecting that. But sure, yeah, OK, why not? Hot take income. I think that in a world where we did not have a two year lockdown enhanced sojourn wherein specifically the tech sector understood and embraced more than they already had the idea of working remote that some situations like this where a physical location is either impossible or dangerous to get to is more survivable in a world where you are securely interacting with a distributed office effectively, not only in the scenario where you need to interact with your workers if they are at home, but also in situations where you know, if they are in dangerous areas and we have no idea where this incursion and invasion is going to end up. But if they need to focus on the things that matter the most of them, like I don't know surviving and the business wants to keep rolling, there is an easier wider pool of people that you could bring on to keep the ball rolling. So yeah, all obviously the first and foremost thing for everybody that is working with this company is physical safety. But I think we are we are in a better situation writ large to kind of survive situations like this. All right, let's talk about the supply chain. This one is potentially going to impact everybody. The U.S. Department of Commerce announced that companies making tech items overseas with U.S. made tools must obtain a license before shipping the items to Russian customers who support the Russian military. So that's open to a wide amount of interpretation. In fact, the Commerce Department even made statements that were like, you know, a lot of companies probably just don't even try to figure out. So maybe they just best not export to anybody in Russia just to be safe. Commerce Department's instructions are to deny almost all applications for such licenses, U.S. companies must also get approval before exporting certain items to Russia at all, including civil aircraft parts. These are similar to restrictions put on selling to Huawei, except they're applied to a much wider number of companies because it's anybody who conceivably the Commerce Department might define as in any way supporting Russian military. So you're you're applying what applied to Huawei to an entire country. Remember, with Huawei, they sold off Honor and so Honor could keep making phones and lots of other companies in China picked up the slack for what Huawei was doing. You're not giving Russia that out with these restrictions. And the U.S. and you may put more restrictions on selling technology to Russia. We'll have to see about that. There are some of the hits to the supply that have nothing to do with governmental actions. The conversation notes that Russia and Ukraine are key exporters of neon, palladium and platinum, which are critical to chip production. In fact, about 90 percent of neon used in chip lithography comes from Russia. And about 60 percent of that neon goes to a company in Odessa, Ukraine, to be purified. That's the global supply chain we we made and live with. Alternative sources would require significant long term investments. You can't just say, well, let's do it somewhere else. Shipmakers are estimated to have about two to four weeks of inventory of these sorts of materials on hand. But if any kind of disruption to that supply chain lasted longer, you would get another stress on chip making and prolong the existing chip shortages, which it looked like maybe slowly we were coming out of. You won't come out of it if this happens. Yeah, the biggest things here, technically, aside from obviously making making a chip shortage, even shorted jujure is inflation as well. If these things are more rare, there are there is going to be a higher cost that is eventually going to get passed on. Yeah, it if if this goes on and if it proves, you know, as disruptive as some people fear, it's going to have a bad effect on the world economy. And that's going to affect your ability to get products and it's going to affect your ability to pay for products. Because like you said, the prices are going to go up. I really want to know how they're going to figure out those Russian customers who secretly support the Russian military, but say that they don't. Yeah, well, I think that's the idea, Sarah, is the Commerce Department is like, you can't really tell, can you? You might as well just blanket not just in case. Right, it's an attentionally chilling effect is what it is. Yeah, it's the fastest way to ban a thing without saying that there is a ban on doing that. Right. Yeah, it's only certain companies. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, no, there was a quote from the Commerce Department in the Reuters article that said, you know, a lot of companies will just not want to deal with the complexity of this and skip and exporting at all. I mean, they're not they're not messing. They're not even being subtle about it. Yeah. All right, let's look up to the heavens. Four NASA astronauts and two of us cosmos cosmonauts are aboard the International Space Station right now. There are three cosmonauts currently in Houston training at NASA's Johnson Space Center in anticipation of being the first cosmonauts to fly aboard a SpaceX rocket to the ISS this autumn. Remember, Soyuz rockets filled the gap between the Space Shuttle and SpaceX being able to deliver people to the ISS. So it was going to be the great like, hey, you've been taking us up. Let's take you up. Russia is also still set to launch a Soyuz mission to the ISS in March. No NASA astronauts on that one, though there were NASA astronauts training in the in the Baikonur Cosmodrome recently. NASA says it continues to work with its international partners, including Roscosmos on the safe operation of the ISS. So for now, this is sort of neutral territory where everybody's walking on eggshells, but getting along for the moment. Yeah. Without getting too far into the weeds on the conflict itself, this is probably the most colorful example of the fact that there is a gigantic swath of Russia, a huge country that is just sort of operating in the same level of surprise and confusion by some of the moves that have been made out of the Kremlin by a leader that by some reports has become increasingly isolated even from his inner circle. All right. So one of the things we do on Daily Tech News show, all of us, whenever we're on the show daily for me and Sarah, pretty much, is figure out where to find good sources of information for technology in this case. But we all do this for our own personal information as well. So I thought it would be useful for us to just kind of pull down the veil and share how are we keeping up online with these events? So Justin, let's start with you. What what sources do you look at to figure out what's happening regarding all of this? Well, obviously, for my job, I need to focus more on the political side of it. So I am oftentimes looking at a politically themed sources. For that, I go to probably an order Punch Bowl News, which is a fantastic email newsletter, Politico, The Hill, Axios. But regardless of where I go specifically and there's a lot of great recommendations that are about to come up here, I just want to stress to people, please be redundant in your sources, especially when if you really do care a lot about this, read multiple versions of the story as it is written by different people. Wikipedia is a fantastic website. It gives you a lot of context for things that that you can check against as as you go forward. But that's that's the one biggest thing. There is no one great site that does everything the best. Every site has a tilt. Every side is written by humans that can only do their best to to process this information. So please be redundant. And also for the love of all that is holy before you hit retweet, can you at least check the account of the of the tweet that you've said to make sure it's not just total agit prop? That is that is my biggest pet peeve with Twitter. Sarah, what about you? Same. So I rarely watch cable news or at least as sort of a steady stream in the background that some households do. And that's totally fine. There's no judgment. Rarely do. But but but I've got YouTube TV. So last night when the situation was starting to unfold, at least in my time zone, I was still awake and it things started to get kind of dramatic. These are the times where cable news is actually really helpful for me. Now, you might say, well, it depends on what station you watch because, you know, they're all propaganda in their own ways. It's not about really what cable news station is the best because I am flipping around between quite a few of them. I want to know who is on the ground? Who are the reporters for each for each outlet? You know, what are they doing? What are they talking about? What do the Chiron say? You know, that's the sort of what what the what the current topic is where they write it out at the bottom of the screen. And at that point, I'm kind of like you, Justin, where I start going, OK, well, let me let me fact check some of this stuff. Oh, someone mentioned the city. I'd like to see it on a map. So I'm sort of using my second screen the whole time. And I kind of get into a groove that way. What I don't like and it was really irritating me last night and still does today is something like Twitter, which is was always built to be so great for this sort of thing, breaking news. You know, you got you got, you know, a lot of discourse and conversation and people sending in videos and and helping us all understand more about the complexity of any sort of breaking news issue. It's just it's just a nightmare. It's a nightmare because people are confused. They're sending along information that has not been vetted properly. Or it just is outright misleading or just false. Lazy, lazy, lazy. It's very lazy. And I know in a lot of ways no one's trying to be lazy, but it's just you got these tools and you're not using them properly. But whoever taught you to use the tools properly. That's I don't really have anybody to blame here. And then you got the other people. I mean, I must have seen the same tweet retweeted by like 50 people that I follow. So I kept seeing the same tweet about like, hey, everybody, slow down. Make sure you know the source, blah, blah, blah. And that sort of thing is if if you I agree very strongly that that's the way that you should do it. A lot of people just go like, yeah, yeah, I know what I'm doing. And it just turns into more noise and it makes it hard for me to understand where the news actually is. So I go back to TV. Yeah. And I like what you said about outlets that have people there. I just mentioned this on when he was talking about the Sunday shows on the PX3 Extra this week, ABC had people there. Yeah, which which makes a world difference in your ability to report on something when you actually have a reporter in the place. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Roger, let's bring you in here because I know you've you've got your own way of keeping up on this. What do you use? I mostly read the the national newspapers of various countries because it allows me to get a contextual view of how other population centers see a situation that may or may not be directly affected by it. So he has something like, say, in the Sydney Morning Herald where you have people who are literally on the other side of the planet and how they view it, even though they are literally thousands of miles away. Yeah. And and and all that while balancing his daughter on on his lap. So it's kind of impressive. And I doubled I doubly agree with Justin on I follow a couple of diplomats and journalists on Twitter. I trust him, but I also vet everything they say. And oftentimes it's more of an analysis that they have, but definitely double, triple quadruple check and cross reference those stories because oftentimes like like Justin was saying, some of it is just agit prop. Yeah. I would probably end up repeating almost everything all three of you said. So so the things that that are unique to me, personally, I read the BBC, the Economist and the conversation for a bulk of my information, the BBC for what's happening right now. They tend to give especially the BBC World Service more than the BBC Domestic Service, the BBC World Service is very good at kind of sticking to the like, here's what happened without necessarily putting a spin on it. The Economist gives me, especially the Economist podcast, given me a nice larger context about the events and and bring in a lot of expertise from from their reporters to that so I can I can understand it a little more and the conversation has great thoughtful analysis and and and a really good way of pointing to resources of people who are experts in the field. I actively avoid taking in information from social networks. If I'm looking at social networks, I look at it through the lens of what is the temperature of people? What are they saying rather than I'm going to learn what is the info? Yeah, exactly. I try to look at it with that lens. Doesn't mean sometimes I don't find out stuff there, but but I put myself in the mindset of most of this is opinion or false until proven otherwise. And personally, I avoid video because I find it just clouds my thinking. It starts to really make me overly emotional. Maybe that's just me, but I tend to try to focus on the written word because that helps keep me from getting more stressed out about it than I need to and and yet stay informed. So that's where I come from. All right. Well, I feel like we should end on something that might be kind of fun. Yeah, yeah, let's let's finish. Let's finish on an up note. Let's do it. So you all remember Winamp, right? Oh, yeah. Back in the good old days, late 90s, Napster era. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there was a llama. The whole thing. Well, Adafruit contributor Tim Seed has converted a DIY device called the Adafruit Pi Portal into a standalone MP3 player that looks pretty familiar, complete with the ability to install different Winamp skins because that was you know, I had to have a good skin back in the day. Yeah, just like the olden times, everybody. Now, although the Adafruit Pi Portal does have a built-in speaker, you'd probably appreciate an external speaker. It's a little bit cooler using the plug and adapter. So that's possible. Comes in three different sizes, has a customizable touch screen that can also be programmed for news or stocks or whether maybe photos that you want to display, you'll have to copy MP3 files onto a micro SD card. You also need the appropriate artist name and song title correctly in the file name to show up correctly, kind of like the olden days. Playlist work too. But you have to manually set them up and configure them as JSON files. So it requires a little bit of work. But some of you like this sort of tinkering stuff. So we wanted to pass it along. Tim C, who created it, not only published instructions, but also released the code into the public domain. So if you like to make things, get to it. Yeah, this actually is easier than my first MP3 player, which you had to sync to iTunes to get the MP3 files. Did you just put them on an SD card? It's so convenient. Sinking to iTunes. Yeah, yeah. And WinApp. Yeah, beautiful. I mean, when I look at it, I'm like, that's beautiful. Thank you for bringing us a WinApp Lama chaser to today's news. Indeed. We also want to extend a special thanks to you, Kelly Cook. Kelly is one of our top lifetime supporters for DTNS. Thank you for all the years of support, Kelly. Yay. Listen, folks, you can get your name read there, too. Just become a patron, patreon.com slash DTNS. Do it right now. Len had a scheduling conflict today at Len Peralta, so he could not make the show, but he did draw us a piece of art for today's show, as he usually does on Thursdays these days. It's a poignant piece related to current events, simply titled War. It shows two phones. They are in a wartime setting. If you'd like to make a copy yours, you can get it if you're a patron at Len's Patreon or you can also get it on his store at LenPeraltaStore.com. Excellent. Also, thanks to you, Justin Robert Young, for being with us today. It's it's busy times in politics. So what have you been up to? Well, obviously, we have a lot to chew on tomorrow's episode of the Politics, Politics, Politics podcast is relevant, even though it was recorded yesterday. We have Kevin Ryan, one of my favorite guests on the show to talk from a philosophical perspective about empathy in wartime. But you can go ahead and grab that the Politics, Politics, Politics podcast. And if you are a patron to that program, there was an episode today where we broke down everything that was happening. Go get it, folks. We are live on this show Monday through Friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern. That's 21 30 UTC. Find out more at DailyTechNewShow.com slash live. We will be back tomorrow. Join us live if you can with Shannon Morse. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at FrogPants.com. I hope you have enjoyed this program.