 So we're going to focus here on some of the folks that are, you know, right at the ground level working with customers and helping them through those big challenges. That of course is Datalink that's here with me today. Datalink has cloud and virtualization practices and work with many technology providers to help them understand and take advantage of many of the new technologies that are available today. Hey, so special broadcast from the Wikibon Studio in Marlboro, Massachusetts. Joining me for this segment are Kent Christiansen, who is a CUBE alum. We've had him on at EMC World talking about Converged Infrastructure. And Kent is the virtualization practice director. Kent, welcome back. Thank you for having me back. Great. And also we have Mark Myers, who's first time on the CUBE. And you are the cloud service management director. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. I'm very glad to be here. Great. So gentlemen, with the setup that we have that, you know, there's so many changes that customers need to think about. And the way IT has done has changed a lot. Mark, Datalink's been around for 20 years now. Can you talk to us a little bit about what Datalink does and how what you've done has changed over those times from a technology standpoint? Datalink started, as you said, about 20 years ago. It started as a hardware technology reseller focused on storage. As the industry evolved and we started moving, especially as we moved into more and more virtualization, more and more technology, and the climate has become much more complex, Datalink has also evolved. Over the last couple of years, Datalink has started developing close relationships with not only the clients, but with advanced services. What we're looking at is how do we bring more than just technology to our clients? So that is they're trying to figure out how they best play and where IT fits into their business. We're actually helping them move IT from just a data center or the wall group to actually a partner in IT as a service. Mark, can you tell us a little bit about geographically and what kind of headcount you guys have? Datalink has approximately 500 people spread across the U.S. We've got, if you break it down, everything that we do is driven by partnering with the clients throughout so that we've got a very large technical team on the order of over 200 people. We have the sales team that goes out and helps work with clients. And the idea is not just to look to see what they want from a technology piece, but what is their business doing? So the sales team is almost 100 people and then we're developing a new division called Advanced Services. And right now that team is about 50 people. The idea of Advanced Services is how do we partner better with the client? Great. And I love the services focus that you guys have. Obviously, there's certain technology players that you guys work with. Can you give us a little bit of that spread? Can I pass that to Kent? Talk about some of our technology? Yeah, so we have very strategic partnerships. You know, we're here with EMC down the road, NetApp, Atachi Data System, Cisco, VMware, Symantec. So those are examples of what we call strategic partners. And then we have partnerships with a lot of other leading edge technologies, best of breed technologies that fit into those overall solutions. Okay, great. So Kent, we talked to you last time about Converge Infrastructure. Let's talk about what you're seeing from the Converge Infrastructure market. Obviously, you guys are working with Cisco, you said EMC, NetApp, who's got their FlexPod partnership, Atachi, who's got a play in that position. What are you seeing in the Converge Infrastructure market and how is that maturing from your point of view? Yeah, so as you mentioned, we've been in that for quite some time as it was, Mark was pointing out that we were evolving as our customers were evolving and the challenges they were trying to meet. We knew just selling storage didn't make sense. So we started building and working with our leading providers in Converge Infrastructure. A lot of that is around Cisco, feeds into EMC infrastructures and VCE infrastructures and FlexPods and even some of the variants of Atachi. Certainly our customers are under a lot of pressure to meet the bottom line and one of the ways they do that is leveraging more of a unified and converged infrastructure. So we have invested in that heavily over the last three to four years, created a leadership position in that. We offer a lot of the different solutions that the customers can consider and can help them compare and contrast. It's a market that by almost any measure is growing very, very rapidly. So when Wikibon looks at the Converge Infrastructure base, we think it's much more than just kind of wrapping a bunch of pieces into a single hardware. Wikibon CTO David Floyer actually said that the further up the stack you go, kind of exponentially how much more value is added. If we look about how solutions are integrated, probably the one that's most integrated out there is Oracle. They own the entire stack, they put a red stack together. If you look at what VCE is doing, what NetApp is doing, they're adding applications and specialized systems. But you guys play a part in kind of that application piece. Can you talk to that some? Absolutely. So it is about delivering the application, and it is about delivering business value and being more efficient. And so one of the roles that Converge Infrastructure plays is it gives me a head start. So I'm not starting with pieces from multiple vendors and trying to figure out how these things wire together. It takes risk. I'm going to go and deploy a new architecture. Am I the first one to ever do that? It doesn't work, and that's a lot of the value prop that VCE brings. It does an ordinary amount of testing. But as you pointed out, then there's also the application testing that the organizations do that says, well, if I really wanted to roll out Oracle or SAP or something like that on an infrastructure, has it been tested and can we leverage that testing? So definitely it's about delivering the applications and delivering the value. Okay, so it sounds like you're also helping kind of that last mile of the application, because no matter how much testing has been done, in general, how do I get that into kind of my full stack environment? Is that true? Yeah, I think to imply Converge Infrastructure starts to lead into cloud and delivering IT as a service, et cetera, and to kind of think that a product, right, it's more of a solution, right? What are you trying to accomplish in your business? Let me bring solutions that meet those needs and help you accelerate your time to market and things like that. So if you look at it as I've got a product and I'm going to go sell it to you, that usually doesn't work as well now, is architecting something into their environment. So we have the, there's still a lot of work to do over and beyond a Converged Infrastructure. One is to make sure we get the right stuff to meet your need. Two is how do we get the applications onto it, right? And then three is Mark will elaborate on is, you know, how do we get into automating that and creating, you know, a cloud-like service offering, which a lot of them are good foundations for. And then once I have those pieces in place, what is it I'm trying to do? What will actually meet the business need and what are the services that I should be automating? Great. So you brought up cloud and of course cloud can mean many things to many people. Private cloud, you know, built on Converged Infrastructure, you know, obviously is growing pretty great here. Mark, I wonder if we can come back to you. You've got your cloud practice. How do you, how do you start that discussion, you know, with the CIO, with the IT team as to how they approach cloud, which I guess for this discussion I'll say, you know, cloud's going to include everything, you know. Salesforce has their Dreamforce conference going on right now as, you know, one of the early software as a service solutions out there. We were just at Amazon's conference, which has, you know, infrastructure as a service, and you've got private cloud solutions like what you were offering. My understanding is you help them, you know, but can you unpack that a little bit for us? Yeah, and that actually is probably one of the most common questions we get right now is what cloud do we need? And we say, okay, deep breath, step back. And we start with a service catalog. One of the big areas that we're finding is that as public cloud is available, business units are going to almost the public cloud immediately because they can get it fast and get it agile and then get what they need. Yeah, swipe it with a credit card and you're off to go. And T departments are saying, but we're trying to meet their needs. So that's why we say, let's step back and let's start getting a business alignment and business requirements how the company operates really drives where they use the cloud. Most of our clients will end up in a hybrid cloud, but that's not where they start. It's helping them figure out what their processes are, understanding what they have to deliver, aligning that to business, moving to a private cloud and then moving to a public cloud, but also finding places where a public cloud can help right away. Proof of concepts, if they need to do a quick prototype. Public cloud is great for that. It helps them move it, but not them having to build that. So it's helping them understand, actually it's helping the IT departments come out of the data center and actually talking to the business units and understanding how the business units operate and whenever they go to a public cloud provider, what are they asking for? Because it's in their own data center. It's hard to get to. When you say hybrid cloud, a lot of times that word gets a little confused. Are you talking about hybrid because they have multiple solutions that they're implementing? Or are you actually seeing federated applications where an application will actually span between more than one of those solutions? I expected to evolve into hybrid and everything you just said where starting out is both a public and a private cloud but also moving to where a fully federated system you might host the application itself in a public cloud, easy to get to, anybody can get to it, but keeping the data because of security issues in a public cloud, keeping the data in a private cloud. So that's where we're seeing some of the initial combinations as people go to a hybrid. If they're not purely private, then the hybrid is whatever can be seen unsecurely or with less security on a public and then full security on a private. Because even when you talk about that example that you just gave, you're saying I have my payments I'm going to keep in-house because I need that from a security standpoint, but I'm not moving workloads. The traditional application was we're coming up on Thanksgiving and I need to be able to burst and be able to do a lot more. We find those a lot more rarely. Obviously you get companies like Netflix that have huge bandwidth Amazon and the like, most companies, they have certain pieces of the data or the application that are living in one place because moving data between those is difficult. And that's a part of the challenge is where does the data reside? How do you keep it? What's the life cycle of it? And the burst is probably the biggest reason that a lot of people are going to public cloud because they can get it immediately. But now it's helping the IT departments understand their usage patterns. In the past, most IT departments have kept kind of a capacity trend but they haven't really looked at the demand when did they get hit hard? When did they need that burst? And that's a part of the shift that we're bringing in to help them understand if they're going to build a private cloud, they have to be positioned for that burst. That's also where public cloud and even public cloud providers can be of great benefit. Yeah, absolutely. We talk about in the public cloud, you really pay for the average and pay for the peak. So you really want to be able to shrink that difference which is having some kind of hybrid strategy can help us. I'm wondering if you have an example. There's so many different paths that customers can choose. Do you have one that you can say how did they address their portfolio and choose what went where? We're actually working with a client right now that started as a software company. They're 25 years old. About 5 years ago their customers started asking for them to host the services. What they realize is that IT is not their strength. Their strength is the software application. So they're moving to a software as a service model where they're going to start with a private cloud that will ultimately what our expectations. So we have to work with them over time in a business where the application will be in a public access where everybody can get to it. But the data, because of its sensitivity relative to personal identifiable information the records that it's keeping will stay in a private cloud. We're very methodically helping them move IT to a managed service that goes into a private cloud that ultimately I think will evolve. I've heard a lot of times when you're talking about the public versus private it sounds like security and the government risk and compliance the GRC are some of the main reasons why people would keep things in house. Is that true? That's exactly it. Because of the data security to compliance one of the key areas is auditability and to be able to ensure that you can pass an audit the public cloud providers are moving in that direction but they're not guaranteeing that they can meet all of the government compliance everywhere from a health care to other security areas of PII personally identifiable information. So they're not guaranteeing that at this time. So that's why a lot of that data is staying in private. There are a lot of service providers that are putting together either hosting or services that they offer for specific verticals are you seeing that taking off anywhere or is it much easier to have things in house today? I'm seeing I say health care because of the data taking off I'm seeing different some manufacturing but most of the area that I see right now and it might be one of the areas that we're focused on is data link to the health care area. So if customers are still having stuff in house Kent I want to get back to you what are customers how does it change their purchasing decision if I think that some of it's going to live in house some of it's going to not be in house at some time moving back and forth what kind of impact does that have on what they're purchasing in house today? They're trying to go to a delivery of the service model and one of the challenges with cloud and we probably couldn't in this session figure out all the different ways you mentioned sales force as an example of cloud that is extremely popular Amazon is being brought in to a lot of organizations so they can do something quick ultimately it's about the application what are we trying to do it gets down to that if I wanted 500 servers for four hours then that's a good use of public cloud if I prototype something quickly because I don't want to buy the infrastructure for something that I'm not sure if it's going to go into production yet even as a software as a service company it's an example of they may try that out on public cloud because I can get it more quickly so agility is one of the things they get from cloud as they roll into production then they may have to think about well how do I run my environment more efficiently anybody who's providing those services Mark gave an example of a software as a service provider to be extremely efficient whether I'm serving out applications to internal customers or I'm serving out applications to external customers so a lot of times they'll find that I may go and prototype something out on public cloud because it's quick and then I want to start bringing that back in-house and to run it in production because that's more efficient yeah absolutely DevTest is a huge application for the public cloud I'm wondering from a technical standpoint getting from that public cloud back inside a lot of times it can be a challenge it's not necessarily running the same stack if you said I'm running VMware in-house we actually did a survey and said customers love that DevTest in the cloud and in-house they want their own production environments and they said in theory it should be the same stack but if you look at what everybody has who's the market leader in-house today it's VMware and who's the leader in the cloud and that's not the same virtual machine today so how do you help customers bridge that gap so that's a great example so as providers of technology everybody's cloud is what I have so there's an example of a market leader in the private cloud saying this is my definition of cloud and the market leader in public cloud saying this is my definition of cloud and as you pointed out how do I manage that it's not compatible how do I deal with these different departments that's probably changing as Mark pointed out we see people going to hybrid so Microsoft's got a strategy that has a hybrid strategy between Azure and their private cloud VMware is now announced a strategy there is a lot of compatibility so that they can go and prototype something in what they call VCHS which is intended to compete with Amazon they can go and prototype something out there but with the same management security and networking policy so I call this the two lane highway to the cloud as opposed to a one way there's a lot of talk about how do I get things back and forth between incompatible clouds so that is a challenge how do I manage this great point because if you looked at both of those examples you're saying if I choose all Microsoft I have a great strategy if I choose all VMware I have a good strategy however as you've seen from what you guys are offering you guys are offering lots of different vendors today tend not to just buy off a single vendor I mean there's plenty of companies that might standardize on IBM they've got a good cloud offering with the soft cloud now HP has their offering Oracle has the full red stack even in the cloud now so we can do that Mark I guess from a services and kind of a management standpoint can you weigh in on this topic and that's actually one of the areas that we look at is when to move to cloud how to move to cloud some of the big decision areas CAPEX versus OPEX do the companies want to own the assets do they want to as you said if you're going to own it you have to build for spike you have to build for the biggest use case in demand that you have whereas if you go to cloud all you're doing is you're paying for average so your per unit cost is more but your total cost of ownership is probably less by managing that so that's what we'll work with some of the clients on let's say with the CAPEX model because that fits their business better and they don't give up the controls and where does that fit into their operational expenses so we look at it from an operational cost point of view do you have some tools on that to help customers figure out what's the price point as you said spinning up a thousand servers for a couple of hours obviously it doesn't make sense it's going to take me nine months to get those all configured with the rules of thumb probably not something simple you can just put on a spreadsheet but how do you help work through that discussion point actually the client I was referring to earlier we're helping put together a financial case to show them what it cost to make those decisions that if they stay in house this is what it cost to host it in their data center it's what they're paying for the data center if they collo and put it into an external data center so they get rid of some of the risk it's actually sitting down and helping them develop the way their business operates a cost model for them so when I think about the operational efficiencies that cloud gives you Ken it brings me back to the current verge infrastructure discussion that we were having before when I think about the experience I get with say a VCEV block is I buy it all the levels are kind of maintained on it I can follow a stream so I don't have to worry about Microsoft patch every week that I have to put on it VCE and you as a partner are going to help them through that can you talk a little bit about from an operational standpoint what kind of cloud and various models and increased infrastructure mean absolutely we talked about the example of incompatible clouds and the challenge and there's nothing wrong and people probably still do go and buy a bunch of different vendors products and try to figure out how to make those together into some sort of a virtual data center there's nothing wrong with that some want to go more toward a converged infrastructure for the reasons we were kind of outlining is that I take a tremendous amount of risk out of the business I've got my storage and my networking and my servers and my virtualization strategy all kind of pre-tested and pre-built and engineered to work together there's a huge amount of safety reduced risk and therefore I should be able to get to market more quickly so that's a huge value problem others want to migrate into that if you were to look at VCE with a V block but EMC will also say well another path to cloud could be something like V specs that says maybe I want to migrate into this use an existing storage device but use best practices to put that together so again it depends specifically on the customer and where they're at in their business model what they're trying to accomplish is the application and some will say something like a V block is exactly what I want to run this tier one application on and others will say maybe something like a flexpot is how I want to build out my cloud strategy and start delivering IT as a service on top of that and that's the value I think we bring is helping align a very solid strategy to what they're trying to accomplish so if we look at cloud agility is something that comes up a lot when virtualization on the server side was launched over 10 years ago agility was really what we talked about I wonder if we can drill in for a second if you talk about how long it takes companies to adopt new technologies changing that stack is hard I remember one of the first use cases I heard for VMware when you left test dev was Microsoft was going to end all support for Windows NT in 2002, 2003 let's stick Windows NT VM and leave it there forever and from an operation standpoint it's like oh great my server is never going to die I can keep using it but as somebody that looks at technology they say oh my god I'm never going to change that environment I'm going to fall farther and farther behind my competition cloud is almost versionless it seems if I'm using Amazon I don't need to change my version if I'm using VM where most companies are within a year or so of the latest release Microsoft still seems to be a little bit behind so what's your viewpoint on this what do you think the rate of change is accelerating so there's definitely if we sat here eight years ago virtualization as you pointed out it was an efficiency play I can save money by virtualizing and I'm going to do it in test dev initially because I feel safe about that but eventually the benefits of that became more and more apparent to the application owners and they were comfortable that yes but also I might get some benefits from this I might have reduced down times and things like that then you go into maybe the virtual data center where we start saying okay this virtualization thing is an efficiency play and it helps me drive that agility by doing that as we move into cloud delivery models a lot of times based on that private infrastructure a lot of times leveraging that virtualization as a launching pad to be able to do some of these things companies are all over the board and they will adopt at different rates of speed but one thing we could definitely see is it's accelerating so you could look at virtualization over the last seven years it's just taken off and that's something that's pretty fast right how fast will be delivering cloud IT as a service takeoff and it's definitely accelerating so Mark we're starting to talk a little bit about application so I want to bring it back to you we kind of talk that we're entering the third phase of cloud which is hopefully we're getting past stealth IT and IT is really kind of take control and use some of those tool sets that are around there what are you seeing inside of the companies you're working with as to how kind of the line of business and the application owners are functioning with IT what's the role of IT going forward and how do they work closer with the business I think that one of the ways they work closer with the businesses is an API an application programmer who is actually working with the applications to be able to bring them in and all the interface programming that has to be done because the application programmers are thinking what they do to get the applications up and running the IT's got to be able to provide the platform to do that and deploying the technology configuring it but also being able to do the interface so that as the applications come in they can actually run in the IT environment one of the big areas that is growing is mobile apps and being able to support that so IT is having to get out of the data center and being able to support all of the mobile apps all of the different technologies that people want to use with their own devices yeah great so when you talk about it I noticed you didn't say desktop virtualization or VDI I'm wondering what your take is on kind of all these new apps in mobile and kind of the traditional desktop virtualization how do those two play together or don't they? They absolutely do and I can't give you a good reason why I left that out I'm glad you brought it up because what we see is everything being virtualized I look back to years ago we had virtual terminals, X terminals and the idea that I can go now anywhere at any time and be able to have my desktop there are virtual environments being built there's a university in Ohio that the students have a virtual desktop on a thumb drive and they plug in anywhere and they get to their whole environment and I fully expect that the world will keep being that way where IT and that's why I talked about the mobile apps where everything is now virtual the virtual desktop, the virtual world that they can plug in anywhere at any time back to security it has to be secure but being able to get to anything that they wanted on a thumb drive I think there are plenty of those new applications that are mobile that aren't necessarily tied to my desktop do I enable mobility or am I tied into my corporate image and to be honest when I think when I worked at big companies that corporate image drove me nuts and you're always trying to I don't want to use that browser I don't want to use that application I want to use the applications I want I work for a small company we're on Google apps if companies want to use Salesforce that's not necessarily on what we're doing we're doing mobile enabled applications that aren't necessarily on the desktop that's the differentiation I was making I think you're right and we're capturing and driving that with the service catalog so as we're talking to clients what do their end users really want and what are the demands and one of the things is the what Apple has created with the App Store well that's what we're finding that businesses want they want to go to IT and say here's what I want I actually wrote an article I think like 18 months ago I said is VDI the killer app for converged infrastructure because when I talked to NetApp FlexPod and EMC's V specs it was really easy to get your foot in the door on a project basis and VDI really had to have many changes from the infrastructure standpoint and the organization so is VDI still one of those top use cases that you're seeing or where does it fit in the convergent picture from what you're seeing it's big VDI has probably been slower VDI as that virtual desktop technology because it had some technology challenges and so a lot of people would prototype it but then when they tried to scale it up across the organization they found problems and I think we're a lot smarter so was that price performance both yeah all of them so if I go with the virtual desktop does that save me money like my virtual server did well it might not right and so maybe you have another reason for this you know as Mark is pointing out mobile what the business is asking for is agility they want access to everything from anywhere and so they're asking for agility and VDI is one way to deliver that I can give you your image with your personal things and everything you need to get your job done on any device quickly there was some technical challenges to that A the software technology had to evolve to a point that was challenges in storage where boy that's a lot of IO for a storage device so how will flash how will help that and now we see that you know we know how to scale it up but we know how to you know you can see a V block or a flex pod that's designed specifically for not 200 virtual desktops but 2000 or 3000 virtual desktops so mobility is here to stay I mean everybody wants access to all their information at any time without concern over compliance and security in many cases right so they're going out to Dropbox and they're going out to get the application IT needs to be able to deliver what they're asking for I'll give you all your information at any time and VDI will be a killer app or mobile enablement will be a killer app that's great did you want some to jump in on that Kent start thinking about you know just massive growth one of the things the storage industry has been talking about for a while is unstructured data and how it's really kind of dwarfing the structured data market you know what are you seeing from the unstructured data standpoint you know what pain points are customers having you know are their home directories all over the place or you know is it the big data applications that they don't know where to put everything you know what are you seeing out in the marketplace today yeah I mean Big Dave is probably an overused term to a certain extent like cloud and there's you know one major area that people are addressing now is I just have massive amounts of data I have to store health care would be a perfect example where I'm digitizing everything but the other thing I'm trying to do is I'm trying to consolidate my decision support system so why is an x-ray stored in one system and an MRI in another system and as I start to bring that down I end up creating a big data problem so I think there's another example where you know companies like EMC and NetApp are bringing out technologies that allow you to manage and more efficiently store you know many many petabytes of unstructured data whereas you know the structured database isn't growing as fast as those use cases for unstructured data and unfortunately you know the concept that X amount of data took X amount of people to manage I think that you know both the technologies and the management around that to support those large big data solutions that would unstructured data solutions you're able to have one person manage many many petabytes so obviously I need to be able to manage and grow that environment that typically means I need a lower price point than I traditionally had so companies out there looking at things like scale up NAS architectures and object storage do you have any commentary as to what's winning deals out in the marketplace today for that unstructured data I'm not asking a specific company technology just you know from an architectural standpoint what's doing well you know there are things like Hadoop that are coming their scale out NAS I think is really evolving very quickly right now so in the ability to manage it as I scale it out and be able to you know one of the most important things is to try to get the right amount of data to the right application at the right time so if I have many many petabytes really expensive stuff some stuff is very hot right and so that needs to be on something that's very fast and maybe closer to the application so we see that happening where people are putting storage in the server to be able to serve certain things out that are hot more quickly and then getting colder storage for things that haven't been accessed for a while so that tiering technology I think we're just at the beginning of seeing how not only do I store it efficiently but how do I manage it right so that I'm delivering the application so Mark at the beginning of the segment here we talked about there's so many changes going on Ken said the rate of change just keeps increasing it's the only thing that's constant in this industry is that things keep changing right so I'm wondering are there any pitfalls you see out there or people coming in with just not ready to change what's stopping the industry if we could just change one thing what would make it better or if they could follow the example of somebody what would make things easier I think one of the big pitfalls it is changed it's organizational change where we have IT that has performed and acted a certain way for almost their whole life and the advent of and it's an overused word but this time I'm going to say it's correct the cloud the truly something that is elastic, usage based billing I'm only charged for what I use I can get it when I want it easy access I think that technology has been a total game changer and the impediment is actually getting people that are in IT to think differently they have to look at what they do in a very different sense and that's where we're spending a lot of time also some new evolving roles so the game changers with ways to move forward is looking at I mentioned it earlier an app programmer bringing that into IT where they're spending more time making sure that everything that is running actually runs smoothly and runs together and I think that's going to be the evolution of the people that are doing that and no unfortunately for Better Force nobody just jumps out at me who's easily making that change but that's why a lot of our customers are bringing us in they recognize that that's the path they need to go down so as we look to bring this segment to a close Kent I want to give you both the last word on this you were talking about Flash for a second we think that Flash has been going on for about five years now since EMC and Fusion IO really started bringing Flash to the enterprise we believe that there will be even more innovation over the next five years we'll probably see more innovation over the next two years in Flash than we've seen in the last five years come on what other technologies are hot in your space what should people really be keeping an eye on obviously that's one that's really going to change the dynamics of how storage is laid out over the next few years you know cloud delivery models you mentioned what's the biggest challenge and I agree it's changed right and people will say I have to adopt cloud because I'm not even sure why but we're going to adopt it at a 50% rate as opposed to aligning it with the business etc so that leads to delivering IT as a service you know what of all of our business users going out and doing they're getting their job done and we need to align all of this technology to the business benefit so virtualization will continue there will be flash storage and storage there will be cloud delivery models all of those things are probably some of the biggest trends and then throw big data on there for good measure and you've got probably some of the biggest growing trends so Kent I said that was my last question I want one follow up for you so we talked about VDI a lot of those went to pilot and failed what's the success rate on cloud doing these days so cloud to journey right so as Mark pointed out you look at an organization and say if you just did these things and then technology is probably somewhat easy to figure out but how to consume that and how to optimize it and capitalize on that for the organization that's the things that people are working their way through but it's not different virtualization started that way too it's like okay we could virtualize everything but we're not going to because the application owners don't trust this yet so they'll try it somewhere and then they'll do more and people are still virtualizing right it's not like we're done the same thing with cloud people are adopting it at different rates of speed I can't think of anybody besides Salesforce it's a complete cloud company or cloud operated company but they're starting to adopt it and consume it and see the benefits of it and then increase from there yeah no great point even as I said I was in Amazon show last week and somebody asked is Amazon.com all run on AWS and they said most of it but there's actually a couple of legacy pieces that aren't on it so even you know the cloud giant out there doesn't run everything on that service so Mark I want to give you the last word on how to kind of wrap up this segment as we move to the cloud changing what we do from an IT side how we do it I'd say the biggest change is really aligning IT with the business where they're now a partner they're at the table if you look at any other department when somebody wants to roll a new product out or a new service they have all of the marketing the sales the product development all at the table IT needs to be considered a part of that team and the only way they can be a part of that team is really understanding the business and transforming themselves into true service providers that says what do you need to do that whether an enabler as opposed to just a contributor Mark and Kent thank you so much for joining us here today it was great to really unpack big trends that are happening from converged infrastructure how that's laying the foundation for private clouds how public cloud services software as a service are really giving customers lots of options