 Dwi'n medddol 3 slyngeis. Eich slyniad wedi gweithio will le o compares 10 minutes. Dwi'n meddwl am Ysgolfyddon. Yr Dyfran Bethrwys Gwynaf Sôm, sôl sydd oises o'r actor seudafol, o'r ffordd o'r Ffyrwyr Fyわyr, o'r ffordd i fyfyd yw'r gweithio. Ym ddaith y Tynlluned Iachol Cymru, o'r Fyafyr Fyrwyr Iachol Cymru, Mae'r holl yma o'r holl yma yn ddefnyddio'r arddangos i'r ffordd yn ffodol. Dgylchedd nhw'n 1.6% o'r Llanlach. Rydym ni'n meddwl i'r Llanlach o'r ffordd i'r ffordd a'r gweld o'r 16,000. Yn ymdwyf o bobl yma, y 17 ar 24 oed yn y Maesad 2030, жydwyd ar 84% i'w 100 – 137,000 – ac mae'r bobl yn Llyfrgell. Mae'n ymgyrch ar y cyfnodol hefyd, Mae'r ffordds fydd o'r bwysig yn adrodd yn bwysig yn hollwysgawr. Mae'n dweud ei gyd o bwysig yn adrodd yn hollwysgawr, gyda'r haf ymwneud â'r hollwysgawr. Felly rydyn ni'n ddweud y bwysig yn adrodd yn hollwysgawr, yn ydw i'ch dweud o bwysig yn hollwysgawr, yn y hollwysgawr. Ac ydych chi'n gweld ei wneud, ond mae'r hollwysgawr wedi'u bwysig yn hollwysgawr. ...ol y 82% of the snow forest area that's burned, we found that 57% over half of that. Was actually what we've termed forest cemeteries, in other words mosaics of scrubs and exposed soils with stunts and down trunks and bronches. Yn cael eu cysylltu'n dros y tu. Hoe'r gweithio? That the 2013 water fires weren't forest fires. In other words they've caused negligible directives to forest fires. However... ...they are part of a process that converts forests to plantations. Ond wedi gweld mewn ddaig ac ystodennu y gallwn yn ei hypegol gan gyda siaradau hyn yn eu bod ni wedi gweld doradau cymaint, felly mewn gwir yw'r gwir yw hanfodol, felly mae iddyn nhw'n gwir i hynny chi'n gwybod o'r progylcheddau. Ond oes y byddai'n gwybod geisdurau cofnod i'r progylcheddau, esg gyd o'r cyf salty ar yighodraedd o'r brith yr yllwyn, geisdurau mewn twyd o'r cyfrannu o'r gweithio. Is there a climatic influence? We said that it was a non-LU years, we're supposed to be, not a climatic influence. 2013 was actually wetter than the average. However, we found rainfall deficits two months before the fire. The fire happened at the end of June. We found that in May and June 2013, rainfall was below average. And when we looked at 12 years of data, we found this correlation between rainfall at which the two months before fire and five hours during that month. So yes, there is some sort of climatic influence in the sense that it is too wet, it's not going to burn. But what's happened last year is that autumn was a short term dry period of about two months for fires to start. Then we measured the carbon emissions and we found, we estimate that those fires released about 171 teragramms of CO2 equivalents into the atmosphere in one single week. This represents 5-10% of Indonesia's total emissions. That's enormous because it originates from 1.6% of Indonesia's land mass and only one week. To summarise, the Indonesian fires, this is going to take away messaging. They were triggered by a two month dry spell in another wise rainy year. Now, this means trouble because it means that fires can actually strike every year. All it takes is just a month or two of drought, not even drought. We're not talking about extreme droughts here, we're talking about dry spells. These fires were short lived, only one week confined to recently the forested creek lands in a localised area, etc. However, the emissions were huge because of the peak, 90% of the carbon emissions came from the peak and the fires generated unprecedented at this very position over its neighbours because of the proximity and the prevailing rains at the time. So, quickly, we've heard. We don't really know, but we think that both companies and small owners are doing it. We've looked at concession data, we've overlaid with burning, and we've found that 52% of the burning was in the concessions, but when we looked more closely, more into detail, at the concession data, we found that a lot of the concessions in black areas here were actually already occupied by communities. And of the 52% that burned in the concessions, the bulk of it burned in those black areas where we think that there's actually overlanding claims, overland ownership between communities and between private sector. So, I will now hand over to Pape Drws, who will enlighten us more about his problem. Thank you very much, David. David just mentioned to us, he's focusing more on the unminutes area, unminutes land. Now we've also looked at the area where it is managed, and you can see when it is managed, the fire exists or not. Just when it was how it managed the land itself, particularly in Pithland, the important part of managing the Pithland area is managing the water level. So that is one of the most important part. David mentioned about 82% on non-forest areas. So you can imagine that if there is a non-forest area, then who holds that area? That is the big question. Later on I will discuss on how the non-forest area is managed so far. Okay, so this is the outline of my presentation. I was asked, I'm not sharing the presentation with David yet, but actually David confirmed why the fire in that area is actually... Can we look at the exact location and why there is some conflict? That's why in my presentation I called it fire and conflict, because David asked me to look at is there any relation with the conflict in that area. So my presentation will be focused in an area, but particularly in our own conversation. And then David also asked me whether that conflict exists, yes there are, but how that conflict is managed. And we also described on how the conflict is managed. Later on Ahmad, the next speaker will talk about that now. If you look at the fire in the area, actually multi-faceted forces, it's not only one force that creates fire in the area. There are multi-faceted from economic reasons, from government issues, from biotysical, and also from social and population issues. If you look at negative tone, if you look at the negative tone of it, for example, for economy, people always say that that is because of land hunger, or timber hunger, or deforestation. But if you look at from the positive perspective, there is because of increased land demand, rapid development, and also more reforestation in the area where it can produce timber. On the issue of governance, you can also see or listen from the publication or from news, negative tone of it. Because if you look at the governance, because uncertainty of land use, David mentioned on the area where 82%, how that 82% area is achieved. So if you look at also from positive tone, that is because of lack of resources, even for simple map in the area. If you plan to listen about the emphasis of having one map, because the map up to now, the spatial planning in the region is not yet by last, sorry, in two years delay. So with that condition, then what happens on the ground is we answer the loop, hold and loop manage the land, that is the important part, why the fire exists. From social aspect, if you look at the negative tone, there is illegal practice, there is people are getting land illegally and so on and so forth. But if you look at from the positive tone, maybe we can see that on the ground there are self-governance. Because of no clear governance on the land use, then there are self-governance. They are looking for their own land by using their own way. Or we can also look at the positive aspect that because people are looking for jobs, people want to work, people want to get land for them. That is the positive tone that we can see. But if you look at the company where I'm now working, I'm working now for April, April is integrated from plantation, palm and paper production. The company has been implementing what we call it an overt policy, since the inception of the company. So we never have the intention of burning the fire. But people will always say, why is your possession of the fire? Of course then I will explain later on why this exists, some fire in our area. Because we are now in a very isolated, we are neighboring with many other land uses and then activities. Land use and activities. So if you ask me why you implement more burning policies. Yes, because the wood or the fiber is our raw material. So no way for us to burn it. Instead of burning you can use it. So that is the policy that we implement. And if you look at the recent news when we have fire, we are fighting more outside of the area than within the area. So basically we provide outside for most of us. The new ones mobilise more than 600 fire fighters. Out on our own, but also community frame fire fighters. To fire mostly outside of the area. But of course we have to protect our homes and most of the fire in the outside area. One issue that we want to elaborate here is actually about the perfecting rule. Why I call it the perfecting rule? Because up to now the community is allowed to burn two hectares of the area. But you can imagine if 2,000 people are having these two hectares, they will be also burning. So that law is being actually in the beginning of the war. The auto will cost them. This is the reason why the fire is jumping out of the area. That is the reason why it is quite open on the ground. So another local wisdom is looks good. Looks nice. But which wisdom? And this they are implementing? That is the problem. Because many people now are supposed to plan only for local variety or species. But in reality they are going for like a pangmoid for example. Or something that is not protected like this one. They are surrounded by proper fire training. Do they do that? That is the big question. So if they have two different regulations that conflict with them, then it will be quite difficult for police or law enforcement to enforce it. This is just an example. In the area, for example, this is our tradition. And then in the area it is burning. We open this area. They are angry at us. Why do you contain the fire? We need to clear back. So that sometimes happens like that. So how can we do that? So this is one example. They burn inside the site. And there are so many fires here while our area is frozen. How to deal with that? And in the area even in this very clear here you have even your village office. But around it by unmanaged area and burning. And then this is another example. Just around the village it can happen like that. And this is not managed. This is one example. So our solution that this is the solution that we suggested or we provided that we need in the short term firefighting course. But we need to work on longer period, longer period of preventing the fires point forward. We work with the community. We work with Badan Redd and also other institutions to work for the short term period. But we need to work in the longer period. In the longer term period. So, for example, we guarantee and license. And then engage with national and international institutions which is working with others. And we also understand in the real situation. Right now we are some professional from Seymour for example. And we work with us to try to find out what is the explanation. And our recommendation to the national government is very limited. We need to identify it right now. So I just recommend that the national government has to finalize the special plan which is arranged for two years delay now. So we have to finalize them as soon as possible to make clear who owns the land and who estimated the island. And then local governments allocate funding for fire prevention rather than waiting for the national to come with the fires already big. And then also to villagers to implement reward and punishment for example. And then to company to provide capacity building support for the whole building. I skip this one. This one is the last slide that I want to show you. That we are spending a lot of money to really maintain the water level to protect the plantation from fire. So that's all because time is up. So thank you very much for your attention. So I'll continue the earlier presentation about fire and conflict. My name is Ahmed. I'm from the recovery center for people. Today I'll talk about conflict and fires in Riau. Although we know that from earlier discussion that fire is indeed a transformation. But today I'll just talk about specific in Riau problems. Why? Because this is where 2013 and 2014 fires were mostly happened. And also because there are a lot of funding over the previous years. I'll talk about three things in this presentation. First is how to talk about the general offer fee of community or site of conflict. Each bank of the R happening in the plantation areas. And also then I'll continue to talk about how fires interact with the other way around. And after that I'll talk about how mediation can be a tool for transforming these functions. Which is most, I'll talk about the results of some of our study on aviation in South East Asia. So Rikof where I work is just before I continue my presentation. Rikof is a capacity building organization. We are focusing on how to strengthen the rise of local people. People of government and fair benefits for local people in many different parts. We have 20 years experience in local people, not just local people, also private people and also government. Ok, let's start the first section of my presentation. Conflict offered forage and land is a key and a recurring issue in Riau. If you read a national or local newspaper you can see clearly that this conflict often covered in the media. And many of them are conflict between local communities and external actors. Such as mining companies or plantation oil pump companies and investors or even migrants in the area. And the trend is increasing nowadays. Not just because there are increasing demand for land, but also because of weak governance, unclear tenure and also economic development and still prioritized national and international interests over the interests of local communities. So this is the picture of the figure of natural research conflict in Riau. As you can see here, natural research conflict in Riau is still dominated by conflict within plantation. It's happening a lot in areas where timber plantation and palm plantation. And few of them are in mining and conservation areas. As you can see here in 2011, in timber plantation there are about 250,000 hectares still in conflict. And where in total there are about 3,000 hectares still in dispute with local communities. And why this is happening? I think there are many of this conflict happening because of the government policies in the past in granting the concentration to the companies. Sometimes when the government grant the concentration in many areas in Riau, there is not an empty land. There are people living there for generations, for centuries and also later. And this map is the map of distribution of indigenous communities in Riau. There are Buonai communities, Sakai petalach, there are Talang Mama communities living there for centuries. So when the government issue a concession in that area, without considering the people there, sometimes there will be causing conflict. So how serious is the issue? In 2011 there are about 30 cases only in Riau for people died. In 2012, 37 people injured. And in 2013 also many people died every year. So this is really a serious issue in Riau. Many, every year there are people killed. There are people who have to move to other places from their village because of this conflict. So how fire and conflict relates? In many studies, earlier studies, sometimes fire is used to express the satisfaction of the injustice that the local communities sometimes felt. In the protests or something, sometimes it involved burning. Fire can also use as a tool for claiming land and exclude others. There are studies in the past that there are many fire incidents that some people think that it is made to make an anxiety fear to exclude people. And also indirectly the incidents of conflict can undermine incentive for all the stakeholders on the ground to involve in the fire management. It's likely that when they are in conflict it's likely that there is less motivation, less willingness to put out the fire, to fight the fire. And also conflict or ownership over the land causing unclear responsibility. So I think it has been presented in earlier presentation that because of this unclear ownership it's hard, it's difficult to pinpoint who is responsible for that fire. So how to deal with these issues of conflict in the area? Rikof since 2012 has been doing research to see how mediation can be used as a tool for transforming this conflict. Why we choose mediation as a topic? Because earlier our earlier studies says that in many cases of forest conflict that can be resolved are involved third party will help mediate the conflict. Sometimes mediation alone between two parties it doesn't work because of prolonged conflict they don't trust each other. So sometimes third parties help is needed. So what is mediation? Mediation here is a process whereby an exit to the third party assists conflicted parties in resolving conflict. But without having authority to make decisions. So the decision is still with the conflict parties, not the mediator itself. So this is just a story of one of our case study in the book Chilling Village. According to local communities they claim that they have been there since the Dutch colonial era before 1940s. Here is the graphic showing the separation and duration of conflict. So here since 2007 there is a concentration granted in that area. The conflict started happen flow in that area. The big point is when there is a land clearing by the plantation company to prepare for the plantation. And there are owned by local communities also cleared. So there was a rejection and pressure from local community as well. And they will locate and there are some fire incidents happening. But still it's difficult when we ask different. If we ask company, company will say it's local community and local community say it's company made the fire. But one of the important point is that there is a mediation there. Which the mediator can invite the local communities and also the companies together to discuss how to resolve this conflict. The intensity of the conflict is reduced after the series of mediation. The mediation have some roles. Mediation provided platform for multi-stakeholder dialogue. And also they can also build trust between the conflicting parties. And also create conducive environment for problem solving processes. So it's some outcome of that mediation in local clearing. Achievement of the agreement. Significant reduction of tension and intensity of conflict. Relationship with company and community is really improved. And smoother operation for company means higher profits. And we have to ask if it's sure. And additional income for communities. Because of their compensation and everything. Partnership between company and local community. There are challenges maybe I don't have much time to explain this. But take home message from this presentation. There are three take home messages. First is firefighting alone will not be enough to address fire issues in Sumatra. Without addressing land tenure conflict. And also there is the need of recognizing long standing land claims and rights of local communities. Because they have been there for centuries. And they have been managing their land for a long time. And also how to promote mediation as the tool. One of the alternative tool for transforming conflict. And building a long term collaboration between the conflict parties. Thank you. Now it's time for questions. You ask questions. OK. OK, go ahead. What's your question? My name is Susanna Cover from Reabies. Another question about why there was no emphasis on the need for full beaten protection and beaten restoration in your presentation. Because that would be the obvious thing a large plantation company should be doing to prevent forest fires. The bottom line on managing beaten land is how to maintain the water level. So actually if I have time actually I want to explain on how we as a company manage the water level. By using from simple and very sophisticated water gate or water gauge. So we use that kind of thing. So that is the way we manage the water level. Is that answer a question? Yes. It doesn't ask the question of why plantation companies don't commit to full beaten protection as the key mitigating action against forest fires. OK. Indonesia has large area of beaten. And then the government has given us area to manage. So we implement technology to manage beaten land. So if all the beaten land in Indonesia are basically stopped. Then how about the economic value of 22 million hectares of beaten land in Indonesia. Just for example the whole Rio province. 50% of the Rio province is beaten land now. So that situation has to be understood. The whole Netherlands is beaten land for example. Because you use technology you can manage. The only problem is how you manage that particular area using knowledge and technology. OK. So I'm quite pessimistic actually dealing with the pit fire. Because it is not only a matter of conflicting with the social, conflicting with the other communities. But it is because of the nature of the pit itself. Why I'm saying this? Because we don't know exactly the subsurface topography. I don't know. So this is one of the major reasons why it is very difficult to put out the fire from the pit. Pitland area. So in reality you know what happened in almost many parts of the pitland in Indonesia is almost grey. So the main causes of fire because the water in the pitland is already getting down. And the pit materials becoming drier and drier. So back again to Rio. Rio is the largest pitland area in the world, tropical country. It's in Rio. So if you look at what happened in Rio, the Acacia plant, the oil plant. So all of these are not negative species. So they have to drain the water level and then here dry materials. So you cannot put out the fire until you really inundated the whole area. So this is the difficulty because we don't know where the fire actually hiding somewhere underneath. So again I've got the same mistakes dealing with this. And I was asked by a hotel in Rio. He was complaining our hotel about getting problems because less gas coming in. And I told them sorry this is quite difficult. Fire will be happening every year in Rio. This is my perception. Thank you. Thanks. We said all the presenters. The last one by Amman. I just have a question for you about the agreement in the graphic that he showed. After the uptick with the conflict there was mediation. The graph ends because we're at the present time. Do you have any confidence that after the mediation there's not going to be another escalation? Because previously there were upticks in conflict after it seemed that there was some agreement between the accession holder and the local communities. But then there must have been some breach or maybe not all of the key state holders were included in the agreement. So in this last agreement that he talked about are all of the key state holders included? I'm Faisal Parish from the ASMP Forest Project. Just a question to David Gabel. You mentioned about the 2013 fires. Have you done any comparison with the situation in 2014 yet? Or is that in the pipeline? Or Petrus? I think what you mentioned is part of the solution that the companies need to mobilize. I think in your last one there were four actions for different partners, local government, companies, national agencies and local people. What practical steps or what is needed to put those measures in place rarely to prevent fires in a province like Rio where it's getting worse and worse each year? Thank you. We're working on 2014 analysis. They're also occurring in Rio. They occurred in February, March, a different kind of year, but they're also a short drive spell before that. So it looks like we're more or less in the same conditions as last year. But we're actually working on the details and the numbers. In answering what needs to make that recommendation happen, of course we need to collaborate more open among those players or among stakeholders in the area. Because right now, each of them are working on their own. Recently we have a lot of effort. It's actually spending a lot of resources. Last two months we called and would donate two helicopters or fighting the fire, for example. That is actually beyond our collaborative team, beyond our area. But because we are responsible, we have the government to do that. That is part of the initial stage of the collaboration. We need to do that more. Thank you. Thank you for that. Yes, it's true that all conflict management tools, there's no silver bullet. We just need to choose which one is better than the other. So of course, mediation has many weaknesses and challenges when we implement them in the field. So for example, education is whether it's the possibility that conflict can escalate again in the future. I think the possibility is various. Because mediation alone cannot really address the unclear panel itself. It needs the policy changes as well. So sometimes mediation cannot address it at the policy and national level. That's one of the challenges in the field. Also, it's true that it needs involvement of all the stakeholders in the process of mediation. Sometimes mediation only involves the conflicting parties, which is the company and the community. But without involving the government, which actually the government is part of the conflict itself. So it's true that we need to be comprehensive. We should involve the government because there will still be changes in the policy level to complement the mediation process. Hi. I think I have two questions for the panel. I think the first one is quite clear that for the forestry companies, fires are detrimental to your operations because it harms the fire, the wood, and it's directly linked to your sales of your power and labour. But what I want to understand is that it's also clear that the big companies like UN and Agribil were there have come out to put in place like sustainable palm oil and things like that. So what I want to understand is that for the smaller palm companies, is it India's interest to participate in burning? And I'm wondering is that happening on the ground? So that's the first question for the smaller palm companies. Are there rogue palm companies out there? The second is, hearing a lot today that what's really needed is multi-stakeholder engagements to solve this problem. Question to the panel then is what is stopping, what's the gap, or what's the game changer that can help all of us solve this problem? Who would like to answer the question? I think if the question is game changer, from the plenary we can hear, one is the one map. The clarity of maps in Indonesia is really, really vital for us to improve it. The second one, if you want to do that, then you have to work on the ground, not just from behind the table, but on the ground. Because we can see if you look at why a smaller community are clearing or burning the debris, because they have no tools to do that. So that's why we can help them, for example, by combining all the companies in the real province to provide tools to clear the debris and then introducing how to use composting and so on and so forth. They will not work. I'm very sure about that. Thank you. I'm just adding one more fact that was mentioned is that I think what we need is a comprehensive framework for managing this fire. I think so far there is no comprehensive framework for managing this fire. Comprehensive here means we should have measurement not only at the local, at all levels, at local, sub-national, two-national, even in international level, how international community can also help address these issues. So we need more comprehensive and also collective action is needed. At the moment, I think people still do address fire by their own without collaborating and also how to work together. I think it is also important. Well, unfortunately, we need to wrap up very soon, but we should go from one more question. Thank you. My name is Andy Robey. I work for the British government here in Jakarta as a forestry adviser. It's a great presentation. Thank you very much, very clear. I have to ask the question because now he's gone over to the other side. Last Monday, I heard APP announced their 1 billion hectare conservation programme. Multi-stakeholder approach, they said. I said, where's April? Where's April? They were not in the room. I just wonder if APT are here in the room. Have you guys got together? Have you got time to get together and sort it out in real? With the government, with the resources of RECOFT and the second pointer. The way they resolve conflict that has a big company working, where governance is weak, where government is non-existent. Andy is always teasing me. Andy, thank you for your question. For sure, we're not behind MEP. Both APP and RAPP are hybrid because both are working on that. I skip one slide actually because of getting from the back that the time is up. Actually I put out the sustainable forest management policies that we just announced in the 28th of January this year. So on that announcement, we even commit ourselves to work one on one. One hectare of plantation, we will work hard to conserve one hectare of ocean. So that is one example that we are really concerned. The problem is, when you talk about biodiversity, that is the HEC area. And now, another pressure from, I don't know from where, is about the carbon content or HCS. This is also, we are working towards that direction. Which one is the industry standard availability? If the industry standard for HCS is very bad, then of course, as stated in our policy, we also mentioned that we will follow the industry standard availability for the industry development. Alright, well, thank you very much for turning up and subscribing on this. We need to wrap up, unfortunately we have many more questions, but I'd like to invite you. There's no break and you need to go now to the next sessions. Thank you very much.