 for staying for some more databases and I'll maybe go a little straighter to the point the question of the sustainability and see how through our project RQGs we handle with these issues because it's an obvious question actually in France at least the technical questions I found were the easiest to solve because they they are just technical you need a good server you need your eyes you need to follow the inspire that kind of stuff once we discover it is pretty clear and to me the use and reuse of data seems the best way to guarantee the sustainability because if a project stopped but somebody reused the data somewhere else it is good just what is mentioned before even if it's some guys from the construction that reuse our data at least they will save them on their own servers so when they close all the universities we will have our data saved somewhere another thing is that I think that avoiding property formats always seem like the idea so because yes we have no money and it's complicated for our yeah universities to our work to pay every year for a software that kind of trouble and for end users it's the same for the students if you say yeah you have to buy an arctis license before you start a phd it is difficult and even for the solutions we offer that the users have no extra costs to pay also seem important for the sustainability of the projects as projects so when we look more specifically at the heritage management databases well you found them in most of the regions already in most in the countries they exist in very different quality very different we discussed this standard formats one program that we have as archaeologist is that archaeology is not always good described for example you often have just one cell for iron age but no difference between halstad and latin which is not very easy to handle and a lot of this project have a long history back in the 80s or even before and this is also a problem because you cannot track back who modified or who implemented the data this is really a problem for sustainability if you want to use something you want to know where it comes from and who manipulated it who made the mistakes and who how you can make it better so this is really very important and goes with the problem of the quality check that's always coming back when we discuss this then another problem is the access to the data in France which is in theory a centralized country in the Bretagne you have everything online in others you can get access to the data and in France it's impossible to get to access the data so it is always difficult it's yes part of the social contract when you have to discuss give me your data and this is a recurrent problem for us researchers but of course also for students or for a commercial archaeologist which has not always an easy access to this and the numerous databases that researchers or PhD students or projects created are mostly not incorporated in the archaeology archaeology heritage management databases I mean the data come in after the excavation after the rescue excavation but any further docs or projects reworking the data most of the time are not incorporated so those are the kind of problem that I think are important in these issues so well but the history as I said we go back in the 80s and nowadays you have a database and a GIS behind almost any work any map I mean maybe a few retired colleagues will draw the map from hand but most of us use GIS and one thing that is important and that makes a difference between archaeological data and other sciences is that we are aggregated means it is interesting to work with a data set from the 1980s or from the 1920s or for the 19th century even which is not true for several hard science colleagues and it's also goes further because archaeology uses a lot of environmental data which is difficult to place in the same scale yeah then we have the problem with gray literature I'm always envy the solution in the British area in Scotland or England where you have a lot of things online we are far not that good in France in between you have the interrupt data online through the FASTI online Ariadne project but for the other private companies you don't for the rescue excavation for the program excavation you don't so it is difficult and then you have the difficulty of the quoting and it's a difficulty for us and of course for people who start to work with with databases and of course with the increase of the data of the quantity of the data we need computers if you want to find what you search whatever this might be so I see different kind of databases that we aggregate or that we match in archaeology's master thesis catalogs phd thesis workshop or laboratory databases CRM or heritage databases field archaeology databases and all the analysis environmental or that kind of databases for the actual and for the past and bringing this together under one hat of course is difficult so all this kind of project we all the underlying databases you can imagine from dots from cultures from interpretations from drawing how do we reduce them to information data that we can share this is one of the cash question we asked plus what do we do with all databases that were put online through your Maison des sciences de l'homme as that's where I work you have 10 different databases and then you have your project from thousands of events you have a big european fossil problem database you maybe know how do we link all the projects and how do we know them because I mean we are the interested ones and I guess you're just like me you you note the all the sites where you have to go to check the the new data plus also the question how to quote do we quote tools do we quote the versioning do we quote who's the author is it a person is it an institution is it a grant our project and all those are a problem plus this yes so called a digital dark age so where is the former versions of our data where is the former version of our information and I guess you all know the travel about scales in space and time nested chronological systems between for example litigians and ceramologists or culturalists and holocene how do we integrate absolute datings with c14 that kind of stuff and how do we do the alignment the plurior interdisciplinary alignment so it is a lot of problem that we have one post solution is the free software that we developed in in Strasbourg and that I'm trying to sell you a free software so it's online it's free for your users of course of course it has a cost that it's not for the user it's multilingual which I think is very important multi chronology this also we found out you can't ask the authors who agree to give your database to match to your system so they give it in their system and then you can use it it's open to any scale except intra sites it's one of several tools of course there are a dozen of different tools I just mentioned two for for friends don't know for thousand friends you might check lateral dot net or the best fair for an patriarch is the national french database but difficult to access for a french researcher so I guess for foreigners even worse archaeologists already connects to some of those we do our best to improve so it's not that solution we are online but we are not completely open it means you need to ask a login and password we have the problem with looting in France the the texturing is forbidden so if we want to get some data at all we need this protected interface so so far we are behind login and password the idea was that anybody has access to a simple gis to build a query and to be able to map some dots basically it's what 90 percent of the students need and they don't really need queues or arches for their work they just need to put some dots on the screen so for example here iron age in the upper rhein valley we have friends we have germany we have two departments here we have four and we have data you see here from books from museums from phds and from environmental data also plus you can check if you want some here weapons from bronzator iron age from different books or phds it's a good teaching to any of you teaching gis it's more fun with the students to let them work on a real database on a real archaeological database plus it's free and what we aggregate also is a lot of links and I think this is very important to know the project from the others from the colleagues so where do I get some data well you also get it from all the existing projects and some sometime I click to a link and it's dead so that's a sustainability problem also yes when the name of our university or institute changes you have to yes change the access and don't always think this so we try to be accurate if you have a site with special data don't hesitate to contact us so I put you extra on the of course we have an index of the databases which were fed in archaeologists so one which is before your login and once you're logged in you get more data you got full metadata beyond inspire one of the problem being that the authors are really reluctant to complete this media data correctly what you also mentioned they give you the data and say yes just do it so this is a problem because it is it is difficult and then of course it's difficult for reuse we work on a simple bottom-up ontology alas it was before I discovered the cdox CRM and that kind of project but yeah the mandatory fields are a name of the site coordinates you will cope so you have to import an csv online and when you create a request you can get the csv back so this is the safest situation for sustainability of the data I guess we can you we will use csv files for a few decades or probably more in the computers uh we have of course a problem with the encoding where ujf 8 which is in some excel version pain in the ass if I may say so but it is important because of the umlaut because of the accent circonflet that kind of thing that you need when you work in humanities and so yeah this is a little difficult to explain to the people about the archive in France we have the chance to we are we are lucky we have cnrs and we have this humanium structure which uses parts of the servers from the cern so we have the best triple store red for whatever you can wish about this and they develop different tools uh naka has been very effective to create permalinks duis and it's also a very good tool for the data management plan because when you know when you apply for a grant you need this data management plan but in the end there's no real control about has it been done is it online where and it's maybe it's been checked in the six months after the end of the project but if far four five six years later you want to go on a site and get some archaeological data it's very often difficult so you're an example from the improvement program for my colleague for physically and how the dots appear in archaeology so it's just effective going back to the language because we are multilingual and I think it's important because it's not true that we all know enough English to properly describe the site at least in France so it's really important that we have yeah for now we are French German English Spanish is incoming and it is possible to open to more languages for the users and I think this is for sustainability important because elsewhere we are creating trouble in the database which we don't need it's it's complicated enough and I guess is it the ditch a picture hold a puzzle it's okay let me with my truth photo and for safe force there I know what it is and I absolutely have no problem of what I'm doing so we can implement more languages yes of course then we can go further and going further linking open data is for sustainability a very good solution it helps us to discover new projects and to create cultural knowledge so what I call cultural knowledge is when you aggregate databases you get more than just the sum of the dots you also have other things that appear and for example our colleagues from environment working on paleo channels are amazed to see our archaeological jobs they're absolutely not interested absolutely not interested if it's uh uh roman villa or Celtic hillfort they're interested in the bp ad dedication of the paleo channels I should finish so just finish uh finishing quick so uh I said it's multilingual multi chronologies not limited in a time of space we're just building our user communities don't hesitate to uh come to us and uh if uh you need something just uh try to be sure that a site works as long as it uses and I think this is really the most important rule about sustainability as long as somebody is using your data is using your site it will exist somehow but if it's get lost if it gets forgotten then it's lost so for now you can join the community on archaeogist.org for later we might refill the csv files somewhere else if a better project exists and if not we need to socialize and discuss about the databases to make sure that what we produce is not getting lost thank you