 seat everyone. Thank you for inviting me to come talk at the ArchBag. I think I was given back lunch maybe a year ago or 18 months or so and so it's really great to get to get to be back. I apologize, I have a cough nausea because I've got loose, lingering coughs so hopefully we'll not go flying out because in high definition video you'll see on your favorite YouTube channel. So yes, I am, I'm working in a research agency, I have a patient here in 93. We're a group research IT does. We do research computing services of various kinds for all sorts of people that are on campus. We have micro-computers, we consult around research into management. We actually work with a lot of the museums to help them manage their collections and develop websites and recently I've been working in the visualization technology for tool reality and I'd like to think that I actually have one of the luckiest and best jobs in the world. It's fascinating. We're just talking a bunch of biologists around the interceptor act we're working on and now I get to talk about virtual reality with archaeologists. So I feel pretty fortunate. I'll also say to my son who's a sophomore, no first minute, do you see, Davis has to be using what he's learning in college and I actually said every day because my new IT technology is all about culture, politics, history, context. So what I do, what I learn here as a graduate student working in the volunteer anthropology lab, working on my PhD about ancient technologies completely applies. He's like, oh, I think that was actually helpful. So now visualization technology. One of the things I want to really talk about is that the archaeologists have really been at the forefront of using a variety of visualization technologies for a long time. I want to kind of explore why that is the case. Some examples of photogrammetry is where you just kind of sweep in the field and there's all these articles, museums are trying to develop programs and really help them help us kind of document the things that we find and steward in a new way. So photogrammetry, archaeology reflect this transformation in imaging as other ways to kind of visualize objects that we're working with and see new things from different perspectives and gather new kinds of information. This isn't just happening in universities, we've got organizations, companies on cultural heritage, imaging and spy work that are really leading the way and we're so fortunate to have partners like that to work with. Granted, these CHIs, they're not just concerning documentation. I think in terms of kind of using these technologies for documentation, we've actually done a lot of work. Of course, there's still a lot to do. One of the really interesting examples, like how many people have seen the copy project publication? Okay, so the Copy Project, this is a project to excavate a house in a Roman house, it's called the Bugabi project. They've been excavating for a couple of decades there and they decided to try to have an alternative for the publication. So now we're moving kind of from the documentation side into how do you publish this kind of content. So they have a fully online publication called the Republic of House Bugabi. It's a joint project between the archaeologists and the University of Michigan Press and it's actually still seems to be online free for a while. It's supposed to be up for about six months and then they would be charged for access but I was able to get in and they did all the things without buying the book. So you can go to this publication, you can read the text, you can you know bring up a three-dimensional model of the house that they've excavated and you can't really see it here but there's still trials and you can cook on those trials and we'll say something about that level of that feature in this publication. There'll be a little window up there and you can actually then click to get a list of the artifacts found there and then you can actually virtually walk through this when you click on the little, but these footsteps there and kind of navigate through the house. So I'm just going to kind of experiment and really making these these kind of different kinds of visualizations of archaeological material and contexts and find these available. I found a really interesting article by the authors of the book where they were talking about the point of doing this. Part of the point was they were really trying to make the text also be more readable by the general audience. So I listened thinking about how we get this kind of content out to a broader audience and that was very intentional about all that. Now we think kind of beyond documentation and into publication and some of these other areas there's some really great examples from ideology, from museums, from kind of cultural heritage really broadly speaking and I just put up a few examples things that Ben you know I just kind of thought about last night is I was putting the slides together with Trina, my PhD advisor, she was probably at the end of a lot of some alternative stories going through this. She was always kind of always pushing us to think of new ways to tell our stories and convey information about the archeology and what we're thinking. I remember one time, they still have I think the you know the end of two nights of lectures every week over and day after day after means right so so one time she did us do she volunteered us to do a radio show with her so we always she pulled up like three or four graduate students and we made a video of the show about the site of Selenax and there were people in the audience just just aghast but that was rid of it right she was to really kind of push push that out of you excuse me and I really appreciate that we learned a lot from them. We have colleagues at the under U.C. who do a lot of work here, Biccolo Lercari is applying a lot of visualization technologies, drone photography, free photogrammetry, crowd sourcing around the police station sort of park. I need to mention Tom Maybe and a project that actually helped bring in the first visualization law in the first museum and I'll show a slide on that in a second that was called Heritage and Digital Humanities John Friedo Luccarelli a colleague here from Near Eastern Studies this is a great site where she's actually taking visualizations and it's actually part of her scholarship it's not just pretty things to look at or another way to document things it's actually her research is about kind of the three-dimensionality of the written descriptions that we're going from like the book of the dead that occur in three-dimensional on three-dimensional objects and the spatiality of text on an object it's kind of fascinating stuff so this is a website that she and her students and collaborators have developed. I'm not meaning to insult anybody in the room who's already doing it well please get in contact I'm actually from my perspective of working in research on T and trying to find out how are people using and developing visualization technologies to kind of push push the envelope so please there's my email address get in touch I will add you to the next slide. All right excuse me so I mentioned the FEC Canvas project this is a project actually funded by the University of California System not the National Science Foundation or or any age or any age this is a UC project that colleagues at UC San Diego who was initiated and reached out to collaborators at Berkeley San Diego or Berkeley or state of UCLA developed a network of visualization walls of these platforms at the four different campuses with the goal of having a way to preserve and share information about cultural heritage sites that are at risk ocean or terrorism this would be another way to preserve and share information about this kind of information for this kind of content. They've also the project also includes some crowdfodging, crowd sourcing to identify and involve other sites that might be at risk and it's a partnership with the library that's doing some preservation of the content I think between some technology providers also so it's really exciting project it kind of helped you know between Rita's work on 3D competence and and this project UC Canvas project that's just kind of the beginning of at least my involvement in what we're all just starting to do now. So but as we do this a lot of questions do come up right so what are the standards? Let's say something we wrestle with all the time you go one more year later but the file formats and things like that are just are crazy there there are no standards it's a lot more west so that makes it hard to preserve for all the UK. The files are really large so what do you think how do you make sure that this stuff is available in the future? It does raise issues about publications so the Michigan example that's there are a very small handful of examples where people are really trying to develop new publications as their primary outputs that use those kinds of these kinds of visualizations. Then also Kate you actually recreate these visualizations but somebody else take my my photographs and use the same software and get the same three-dimensional model. Is the content enough to create a new usable like others? And finally just kind of technology access and equity issue these are these are expensive the hardware is expensive the software is expensive the staff time is expensive so who has access to these technologies in every level? I think there are a lot of fundamental questions here so why are biology and using at least such good places for this work to happen? I think there's really is something there I want to be emphasize that and find people to work with the office but what do we mean by visualization? Does data visualization fit into this? Is photography visualization? Is GIS visualization in a lot of ways it is right? And as we think about virtual reality you know there's characteristics of immersive visualization that are giving us opportunities and ways to engage with students with our clients and our other stakeholders. Talk about those now right? Fascinating as they are maybe we can have some discussion too about some of those questions but I do want to ask what else can we do with these technologies? And rather than what can they do for us how do we use that? They're just tools right and if I'm learning anything about technology it's not the technology allowing us to do things it's not the context and the argues that it's important to interact. So now to talk a little bit more about the first cave itself. So first of all what is it? Well physically it's a visualization wall that's over in the Hearst Museum. How many people have actually seen the first cave over in the Hearst Museum? Great thank you. So you know as you can see this is really in six TVs turned on their sides like this attached to a very powerful computer so it's it's really just when you go to Best Buy and your local computer store basically and Buy this thing and then set it up. In fact that was one of the points of the UC Cabos project was instead of having someone that's looking at libraries doing these really expensive fingers to set up some proprietary visualization wall but for the order of magnitude less you could you could build it yourself. It's not too many part of the project. So it's a place and it's a set of TVs but it's also I think that really has a series of projects that are really building into in a number of really interesting directions. What a lot of the projects really started with just the premise of let's let's really see if we can do something to document museum collections, cultural heritage artifacts and objects so you can see a couple of the showing you the 3d model is spinning it just in the interest of time here but this is very one of the reasons why the first museum involved and how they got engaged and excited is they wanted to explore what would it mean to document their collection using three dimensional models. Now it's also I mean I really wanted to work with students to do this probably because I didn't have anybody on my team that I work with who had time to do this and I don't really have time here but I'm kind of making it but I thought this would be great let's hire some students let's have a student team and that has really kind of evolved to be one of the kind of major feelings about the museum and part of it that's so exciting to me and to my colleagues around campus so you can see here a few pictures here on the left over with Ben Porter in the actual big collections facility in Richmond doing some photography this is in the basement of the first of the first museum doing some photography there and then we're actually using the first cave computer and workstation to do the photo gallery because it turns out because it's a nice big computer and lots of experience it turns out to be a great place to actually do the photogrammetry processes too and the student involvement and you're kind of you have a lot of fun you've made a lot of mistakes a lot of errors but you've come up with a lot of good results as well so the student part is really exciting um so for me it's also an experiment I think I mentioned I'm really trying to find out what kind of visualization technologies do people need or campus or faculty and students and postdocs and others need in order to really make this in order to keep exploring how these technologies can help us out so you can see here a couple pictures where it's such a it's kind of such a social exercise trying to figure out how to make things work there's Nico over here and then Michael Ashley I've been talking to a donor who Ben had brought in just walked in and Ben had brought in this is how people want it when we're in the museum doing this work people come in and they watch us so it's kind of turned out that that we're exhibited in the museum as well it's been exciting to have students working with objects working with museum staff and visitors coming by to watch if they want to see this it's been actually kind of remarkable and I really want to you know take advantage of that that energy so a number of questions have always come up as we as we think about the next step in the work that we're doing what what are the best technologies the best practices that we can develop what can we do really make sure that the three-dimensional models are used that they're engaged in content that they're developed to the applications that people can take advantage of even how can we make this content faster how can we develop the content in a more reasonable time for it it takes a lot of time and energy to create some of these models and then again how do we preserve the content what content do we actually keep and I'm also kind of pinching this out for this is for these technologies are actually feeding the band in the workplace so for students who aren't coming into cultural heritage and archaeology but we'll be going into gaming development computer gaming development or whatever else even marketing the development of three-dimensional visualizations and technologies and the software that we're using are kind of that so that's something that is resonating I don't add actually one of the one of the funding funded projects for the student technology is that with the kind of a pool of money that you can apply to in addition to paying for software licenses like Microsoft and Gobi they'll fund you know kind of small and even some large projects so that was one of the funding sources for the sector I definitely talked about with kind of skill development there so these kind of questions and again I'm not going to go into those in great detail but actually I can't resist a few slides that I just recycled from some other presentations where you can see here some some this is a former anthropology of interactiveness with topic B in the there's learning center the content the content that we're developing that we have access to here as archaeologists as cultural heritage professionals it's really compelling so I go over and I talk to people in computer science where they're you know they're developing the next generation where we need to figure out how do you know what's the what are the algorithms that you use to you know study to get all the information from the photograph how can you you know so they're you know like computer science like they're always looking for partners who have a content and right that's that's us and then again this the student engagement part that I'm so exciting and taking that to the next level um but yes you can't just take the models you also have to go into applications and take those take those that content premium applications and really think about this is what we're telling respect to so when you get into the application development then you really what is what is the story that you're trying to tell so you've had a number of great stories sessions all talk about that in the event um now we actually started this about two years ago doing our initial photograph three because I think that's about like eight years ago and the project has grown a number of small you know pockets of trending and and gradually kind of expanded the scope of what we're doing and uh so first degree recently did a large number of medicated from the first collection you want to dig into that on how we can tell stories around that collection now that we also one of the kind of expanded projects was we actually were part of a grant that the milling foundation is giving to the state university and they then gave some awards kind of some grants to to five universities like us and Brown University Indiana and a couple others to develop kind of a national cohort of universities that are developing visualizations for particularly for libraries and spaces we were the one university that said hey we we're working with the museum right now and we want to work with more museums and our library most most of this experimentation was actually taking place within the university area library context and they looked at us and said wow we were working with the museum space it's great that's a that's a learning space let's so they brought us on board um and that's allowed us to reach out to some of the other collections on campus so for instance we've we've done a collection of high codes at the university density area we've started working with some of the outdoor sculpture from the Berkeley Art Museum just at the Civil War Pied and we're in conversation with the library of Kennedy and now it's developing some 3D models for that and my secret goal here is to take this collection of collecting institutions and use this as a 3D visualization approach to rethink that kind of collections at Berkeley there's so many amazing collections here on this campus and I want to find a way to bring that community together to have another way to tell the story of what UC Berkeley is doing through all these these fantastic collections this even though this this was a grant for for about 40 thousand dollars but the advice scheme that I when I was trying to find the PIs for the grant Kathy Koshland who's our vice chancellor for undergraduate education and Larry Conrad who's our chief information officer senator yeah no I want to be the PIs no not so we make sure that that book will be for PIs so that just kind of speaks to how this is also really attractive to campus leadership more or less. All right another kind of an expansion another direction is what is that we've been talking with well actually Ben Porter through the UC Catalyst project was interested in funding another one of these visualization roles someplace else on campus we started talking to the market library about installing them there because they were developing a maker space and they were doing some interesting interactive uses of space and we were doing some DRR development and things like that in the market basement but for various reasons we couldn't do that and it turns out that was very good because a few weeks ago they had a massive flood and it destroyed a bunch of computer equipment and so we have an array for us that they couldn't actually get their act together so instead we've installed another visualization wall very much like what we have in the Hurst over in Stardew Dihall in the Citrus Tech Museum so this to me is really cool so now we've got a visualization wall in the Perth Museum of Anthropology. We have another visualization wall up in engineering and computer science and so I really want to kind of build some okay what's the connection there the connection is museums very different kind of museum they're showing off their maker space and museum and student engagement so that's something that we're going to be exploring just how we can then really use that space and use that connection to different visualization walls and student engagement is pretty good in terms of content and bringing them together and mash them up and see what the sorts of exciting things happen. So that's the Citrus Tech Museum. Right and the next direction we're going to go to Citrus which is the organization in Stardew Dihall Stardew Dihall, excuse me, has an annual funding call for seed funding for small projects and we applied to to get some funding to develop to take this into the direction of virtual reality. So I'm going to talk a little bit about this is this looks like a really good way for us to do some work in virtual reality and have to extend the work on 3D modeling and the application development we've been doing into VR but we need to have a partner and another you see that that's part of the Citrus program. Do you have any ideas? Well I call Elaine Sullivan just down the street here is an archaeologist and she actually works kind of she works, she's an eutologist but she works at the kind of the landscape and the GIS level. So let's talk about that. So we ended up applying for a grant called Visualizing Egyptian Landscapes in Material Culture, Cultural Contents for Immersive Visualization in VR and that we did get the award to do that work. So the way we kind of describe this is that we've got to integrate the work of two digital humanists who are developing these cutting-edge applications using visualization technologies in archaeology, particularly history of art and history, excuse me. And you know they're both young scholars who are also really trying to push the envelope on kind of alternative forms of publication so there's really some really good synergies coming up here and in addition it turns out that even though Rita works on sarcophagi and hieroglyphic inscriptions at the you know very kind of micro object level and Elaine works at the landscape model, landscape level of GIS models and from site lines as they change over time, she comes from 40 GIS, it turns out they're actually working on material from some of the same sites, some of the same areas of saccharite in Egypt. Wow, there's a great serendipity here, how can we bring these together? And then this is actually where I went back and put my roof tree and hat on and she would always talk about multi-scalar approaches, this is that's what this is, we've got two different scales of analysis, how do we pull these together into into what kind of via publication with the goal of telling a story about ancient Egypt. So we developed a kind of a story board right that would start at the the regional level allowing you to go to the landscape into the tomb, see the sarcophagus and then look at the hieroglyphics, that's kind of the basic flow that we're trying to build. Did anybody from my student team actually end up, I'm sure you're not good, doesn't look like it, they probably used the the rain and big terms or something like that, which is to do that. But actually, Jess Jolton who's a graduate student in Rita's group in Rita's studies is really that circle to this, but we have a lot of undergraduate students working on this as well and working on different aspects of this project. So we had this idea of how to, you know, how the user would experience this different kind of contact. And where we are right now, we really started up in earnest in October, you know, we were supposed to start up in in August or something, but we really started in in October and so that on the left you can see a screenshot from the Unity development environment. So we're using some software called Unity that's used with a lot of computer games, things like that these days. You can just see the doctors, the sarcophagus that's inside the tomb here. So I asked one of the students to just give me a screenshot so you can see very specialized software with lots of lots of things that you have to do, you have to be able to coordinate, you have to see sharp and stuff that's well beyond me. And then over here you can see we actually had our first prototype of the VR application which really just took you into this environment and you could come over, you could look at the at the sarcophagus and you could reach down and touch it and just touching the surface would kind of light it up. We wanted to demonstrate a way to interact with this. The goal is that once we have this really fully developed you could look at the the hieroglyphics and you could touch one and it would float up a panel or something and it would give you actually the translation in that part of the text. So that's kind of where we're going and on the right you're seeing Jess Johnson from from Aerosmith Studies give a demonstration to one of the German colleagues from the Unity unit who was out later in November we had a workshop in the first piece in the learning sector with our colleagues from from L.A. and they were some of the first guinea pigs to to actually try on the headset and look at our very first pre-alpha release of this virtual reality experience. Some of some of the things that I observed there were that actually very few people have used the headsets and because we've been doing this project I've just forgotten that fact so that just the very active even though you know that there weren't any hieroglyphics and you have touched this thing and it will kind of light up yellow and the students have been working late they made some very interesting decisions so they knew that the size of the the tomb the physical tomb that the donko was in was actually you know it's kind of this tall right so it's kind of wide but they're like well it's it's it's too short so we're going to push push the ceiling and then somebody said this thing needs a window let's put a window in it and I pointed out later it's 30 meters underground so windows are probably not necessary but so it's so easy and these colleagues who are they're these apologists from from unit put the headset on you know they completely ignored the fact that the tune was completely you know now it's like there's like a size of this written windows there's a window there you can see it's a grassy hole but just the fact that of being in the the immersive you know kind of the VR environment and being able to see an object that that was meaningful to them that they were totally impressed right so it was it was very successful from that perspective um and I gotta say I I have not used the the headset we're using is called HTC Vive I've only used it a few times but I've been really impressed so it's nothing to ask how many people have actually used a Vive or Oculus or one of these other devices okay good yeah so about half and uh any any observations about um does that sound right is it is it hokey or is it actually critical I think so too I think there's been a lot of people say like oh this is just the hype around this technology and people were saying the VR was going to take off 10 years ago but you know it seems to me that we're actually we're actually have that inflection point where stuff is you know is starting to happen and and actually I think there's actually huge opportunities for archaeologists because frankly they're very I thought oh I'll be able to look at you know there will be dozens of great archaeology and kind of history examples of VR how there's maybe more to and at least half of them are crappy so there's actually a huge opportunity here um so some of the things and tensions that as we went through this work so and I wish we were here because she could describe how she was playing and actually had to kind of re-execute through the field notes and old photographs and talking to colleagues what the fine context that we're trying to reconstruct is life it's been fascinating and somebody will tell some stories about how we've gotten some photographs but we're not supposed to tell the excavator who's currently at the site and you know it says that it's like it's like archaeological espionage or something or another so fascinating stuff but do we need to figure out what we want to reconstruct this environment so we need to know what it looked like and you know so excavated in 1903 or something like that um and then there's been this really interesting tension about how we've been trying to create an exact replica more or less understanding this is a reconstruction or they're trying to create like an immersive experience so when you do about the fact that that the tomb is up here and you know in VR it's not physically there so your head does this kind of weird clicking thing you can just imagine so you need to take that into account so how how do you design the experience to be immersive and interesting in telling the story you want to tell but also as realistic as you want it to be and I think that's where you have to know what are your objectives for this for this applications what are your learning objectives for what you're trying to publish here some other things and this was kind of surprising to me um I thought well yeah I think you know other people are doing this and I'm hearing about VR this VR that so you know the development's going to be hard but it won't be you know we'll just hit kind of our usual obstacles we'll just be able to pop through those but turns out that what we're doing is actually quite different so we're trying to take landscape models that we're all in our chair and combine them with three-dimensional models that where you shed under five photos can and combine them with other kind of a reconstruction of the two that is built in Maya or Blinder and bring those into unity and unity's really good at like taking data files from different kinds of software this has been really hard and we're actually having to get some computer science you know students on board and we've done some of this and we've been really look more deeply into the the guts of some of the files and some of the applications to make this work and as I've talked to people also you know part of this Melon Grant, Melon Grant I want to talk to these people they experienced some of this but you were actually you were right on the head of doing something quite different and so then you know yeah so those are the applications but it's very best driven by people like Elaine from GAS it's about landscapes and Rita who thinks about picker fee and and three-dimension today so she's pushing an edge with you know kind of three-dimensional models so there's even though they're both Egyptologists, they're they come at these with these different perspectives and how we bring that together going to a shared visualization is actually kind of an interesting design process I get surprisingly few really good examples to follow there's some interesting stuff with with ancient Rome actually does anybody have anything they would like to mention to me that I should look at a good VR example whether it's a game or a cultural heritage yeah just a colleague of mine named Castiglokal who got us to come here in architecture is like teaching gaming in the UK and this January he brought his game with his students to the IELTS and there you could wear the headset and you walk around the site to you know watch this that's your outside yeah whoops there's no vocal EOCAL I can send you this email address like I'm still vocal so they're they're trying to make a game but but in that in so doing they're reconstructing the site and you you in the game will be able to walk around the site and plastic any other examples things I should look at you think of them send me a note because again it's kind of interesting how how new this is excuse me um so the technology problems are really hard and it turns out that you know the technology is the software we're using that they're kind of just kind of dealing with digital photos and these are these are some very specialized technologies so a lot of us have years of working with experience working at Photoshop but we're about to have to be blunder in some of these other tools these take a long time to learn actually to become really good at and the technology is moving very fast VR and augmented reality spaces the headsets that are being being developed the software changes this stuff is changing really quickly and it's hard to find good expertise right so there's there's actually um over in engineering there's a an H and body of center where there's a group of there's a faculty member but it's really interesting and kind of computer vision and kind of developing the hardware side and so there's a few things here and there there's actually someone in architecture and cd here Lisa culprits you know a bit of a measure so she's an architect and she's really interested in she's creating VR environments of buildings and using that as a way to visualize what's happening you've probably seen examples from real estate now doing virtual walkthroughs and things like that so she's she's actually taking that to the next level from an architecture perspective so creating good content it's there but it's hard and it's expensive so we're really you know i kind of determined ergo we are at the leading and leading edge are this and thanks to my student team and my collaborators because they can great partners on this and it really has been like a process of discovery and hitting brick walls and breaking through them and making decisions to try something different and fascinating so for the team out there thank you um so really it is a worth it and we've had some very frustrating moments but I'll I won't read this quote but I'll leave it up there for you to read from a series of articles on virtual reality and augmented reality that was written by these two people Henry Craig and Maya Chiradeva for and education causes more organizations higher end information technology professional and we had a series of articles back in 2017 that talked about what's starting to happen and just to kind of give you a sense of um how much how fast change is happening but when I read this aside from this art this this makes sense I'm resonating with this but some of the things that they were putting into these examples and they were talking about some of the hardware vendors the software vendors half of them have gone out of business since then and they've been replaced by so this 2017 article seemed quaint you know when I read this it's that kind of experience now so I do think it's absolutely worth it so in fact I've I've submitted a grant for another student tech fund another proposal to the student technology fund to really take us now for virtual reality into augmented reality so this is where you'd use a device like this is Magic Leaf that's on the right for you wake up with the virtual reality you're basically closed off you're blind and you're being shown a just a set of displays that make it look free to mention but you're you're going to walk right into anything nearby in fact you need to have a spot or nearby to help you keep you from walking into the desk or walk with augmented reality you actually have a pair of glasses that you can see through and those are then also showing you images so you can see you could go into the first museum where the circle gets at the doctor's and you can look at it and use a gesture like this or something and the hieroglyphics would then float up and say something to you you're actually seeing it there in the museum that's that's where we want to go next with augmented reality um how many people so this is I'm curious how many people have read the campus strategic plan that was published in November by by Carol Christon campus okay so thank you yeah so this is um for me this is really interesting because we actually have a strategic plan that was published by a campus got a campus membership that's kind of mind-blowing excuse me but some of the things that are in that campus plan really spoke to me that said what we're doing right now with the first museum where the first camp are just connect so well with strategic plan there's a big emphasis on crazy discovery experiences okay we're doing that in so many places already but this is another area we kind of really want to be able to articulate how that this kind of work in virtual reality and virtual stations for cultural heritage connects to the campus strategic plan there's a lot of then kind of research and agendas signature initiatives that have a lot to do with data for individualization health and data democracy and things like that and so these are also things I'm really interested in and connecting this work to and I work with all of you frankly in the interest of time I you know these are just you know I really think that visualization for gravity augmented reality visualization walls have a lot of opportunities to help us with scholarship and research teaching and learning engagement with students with stakeholders with friends working with donors so it's very fruitful so let me let me stop there because I think we might have three or four minutes for questions and discussion I'm really interested hearing the things that you'd like to see the things that you're hearing people are doing so thank you questions or examples or if things that you would like to see any any idea it's been I'm really excited about this happen in Vienna with Mr. Starr's museum recently I'm going to send you the link I think it happened right before the winter break where they showed very high resolution I don't necessarily think that these are three dimensional spaces they're high resolution pictures paintings and then we're presenting them just gonna walk out and what they've done is they take all the rendering and they present them in a sort of three-dimensional gallery that they've developed and so you can then move move through the space and then zoom in to kind of the high resolution these complicated portraits the 16th century portraits and or zoom back out and so you can then engage with the image in a way that you couldn't necessarily engage with it in the gallery because there are guards or there are cases that you can hear from you know zooming in but I like that example because it gets us over the $220 million dollar referral building a new person's museum for all the objects where we're actually presenting we can we I think in the future in 10 years we'll be curating it because of its in virtual space as much as we're using our we just need to get the content developed through these kinds of initiatives like you're doing yeah I've always wondered about you see a painting in a gallery it is very three-dimensional and those are some texture that just strikes you in a different way than when you're looking at a computer's grade or the book so I kind of love to capture that the texture of the data stuff other questions, suggestions, directions yes I was interested in your collaboration with the angle guardian and specifically I have a sense of I'll use it with you there for a limited time yeah you know I think there's a lot of possibilities working with I think like plants, I don't know what to say, so then I think about some of the other, a few trends in going from intelligence and machinery to new kind of build that machine generated identification which that could certainly be applied in our philosophical context as well you can't always export things anymore to a herbarium you know if you could take a really good picture in the location yeah you can take your time collection that's great that's great that's what I think you're working on I tried it a little bit with a NASA project and it worked well and then I actually wanted to let's make a plan for identification so you'll basically get like an interface to have a pool of people participating yeah and submitting data and then this is how you submit your your system right but then you make top bottom curation to label what is actually the morphology or whatever characteristics you want to precise and then you actually make a measure of certainty because not everything like I said you're saying this is all the time but there is there is doubt it looks like other planet so you need to measure of certainty that this is only like 90% 80% I have colleagues that are really important to do archaeology and fly over to the ocean so hopefully you can get some activity yeah interesting right you're running your day I'm running you're on the right I don't think you see me right yeah so you can see me all right okay thank you I just wanted to ask about um so like you showed it out of each project and there's a huge example of their sort of business people are storing them from any random digital location and given that our discipline of many and most disciplines you know research depends on things like citation are you with your project can read up you know thinking of it and being used for research purposes say you pull out something and you do some work with this thing rather than how do you do anything about how the pool might site that or how does that kind of come towards them continually accessible yeah for research purposes I mean it's so it's so important and I'll admit this is like the dirty laundry of the project you know are creating these models we're building them into applications but in terms of we're just getting into the point where we can ingest these like in the collection space which is the collection management system used by the HRS Museum which is the other system that by any team manages but even there you know we're even in the collection space we're just starting to get to the point where we're going to try to create a digital object with the fires, DOIs, some kind of persistent identifier of these objects aside from their accession number because it turns out the accession number they're supposed to be unique but they're not so so we're really trying to it's kind of the next direction so the idea is that these will all site all objects but then if so what about should be just the mesh be a subtle object because that actually turns out to be a very valid subjective study because it's a three-dimensional form without the colors on it it turns out to be pretty informative sometimes right so we shouldn't have these that if you do research on the mesh would you cite the mesh no perfect answer is but that's that's certainly one of the things we're thinking about and because I was wondering if you're using laser skin at all to the degree of you know different scales I have not I want to but I see the trainings go by like uh I've got to get up to the art form or another thing we're talking to the site art people they're using laser skin to the infrared geometry but the scale in the standard which is often more of a site scale yeah but don't use the laser skin because it's high precision and it's kind of a you know it's a background operation they stick all these sort of geometry details and in any high precision they'll have to pull them all the way and they're mostly working in under desk recap which apparently is really good if you're using different data so yeah right and it's you know it's free for students on campus yeah that's a good note but I have to say art and eco in particular are one of our little experts here on campus where those pockets of excellence and expertise that that we turn to yeah you know there's there's so many different happenings here if I were to talk to you that seems kind of important because this all seems expensive and you mentioned that but I mean really expensive so if it if they have got something that's accessible I mean that's kind of working in religion or something I think that students actually could do their own is this kind of what you're suggesting that they actually have their own projects without these huge ransoms it sounds kind of haunting yeah I think you know there was kind of a campus so infrastructure for this like places where you could check out good digital cameras computer apps that have the software tutorials and guidelines and then a way you know kind of like your app is a way that you know people know that's a place where I want to do some research just to figure out and so in faculty and graduates that I need to get some students to help me with this project so we have some way to create you know the structure for that then it has a better chance of self-escaping yeah happening yeah multiple locations I think that's really the campus that you do for that's that's the challenge is how do you actually scale up things some of the things that are very could all those softwares come and do that uh are they just so expensive they can't hop to the group yeah I think some of the software licensing is definitely part of the challenge here we're resting with the software that we're trying to license in a daily basis right so it's hanging into such an internet so it's a software I think it's it's almost more than the kind of expertise so learning how to use the software and and helping people get through them and that's the best way to do it okay now you've learned how to use the software but to really get it to do what you want to do you need to get several hours in and then you attend to hours in and then come a real expert how is it do you have thoughts on that that's a challenging question with the the kind of open science revolution right that's that's what we have for that well we see data and work flows of things published in open forecast there's still the problem of how do we transmit the methods to the people who want to use that either for a from a career trajectory perspective or for some one-off research project so we're coming from archaeology or anthropology chances are we don't have that stats training or programming of computer science training I'm kind of select the most appropriate method from this overwhelming of techniques right so you still like you said you still have to kind of immerse yourself but then uh who and where and when it lines you to reach out for that help so you know those are the those are the rules we try to take so yeah D-Lite, D-Lite is a very good resource for those of you who would not be able to they have tax debt training and workshops and community building. Yeah it seems like about half your time outflows it could be something like library open science and there is some programming software that a lot of us would like to use to engage. Well everyone thank you so much for really enjoying the invitation to come and talk it's always great to be here.