 What he represents is patriarchy. We're here to do work as men, as patriarchs. There's nothing more natural than being a father. And we are live here at the 21 Convention Patriarch Edition on location in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host, Donovan Sharp. I'm going to introduce my guys here from my left to my right. We've got Alexander AJ Cortez, who obviously has the best hair on the panel. Beautiful hair. Ed Latimore, a former heavyweight boxer. And now you have a degree in psychology, am I right? Ooh, physics. Physics, ooh, wait a minute. The other P word. Yeah, don't tell you the other P word. He's a really smart guy who can rough you up. To my left here is, of course, newcomer Steve the Dean Williams of themanmindset.com. To my right, of course, is the keynote speaker of the Fraternity of Excellence of the 21 Convention Patriarch Edition, Hunter Drew. Also, Mr. Ken Curry is a newcomer among us. I'm going to get to him in just a second. And then, of course, on the end, we have none other than Socrates himself. Gentlemen, how are we doing today? Great, doing well. Good, good. All right, so I'm just going to open up to the panel here just to kind of break the ice. Talk to me about the 21 Convention Patriarch Edition. What's your experience been like? AJ, we'll start with you. Yeah, I was, I mean, I've been very enthused about it since when we conceptualized this, what, about like five, six months ago? We had the idea for a fatherhood convention. This has never been done before. And I'll say the gravitas and the seriousness of all the attendees and everyone that showed up. The depth of conversation has been pretty extraordinary. It made me realize that I've talked about in the past about fatherhood, I think it's sort of the ultimate expression of masculinity. Since you have to, if you're going to be a good father, I would say, I think most of you would agree that our dad's like, you have to have your life together pretty well as a man. Make the state very simple. And then so, when you have these guys speaking who are dads and they're approaching, how they approach their marriage, if you're having their kids, their life, what does that mean relative to being red pill aware? It's been pretty extraordinary. Like, it's a level of discussion in this course that I don't think we've ever had and sort of like male spear before. So that's when it's very cool to watch and get to participate in. Absolutely, Ed. This is very cool to me because I get to have conversations with people who I look up to. Are there characters that I admire? Even guys in the audience, I've never met before today. Not even, you know, they weren't even at the conference in October, but talking and seeing their goals with their families and what they want to do, it's really great for a guy like me and how I came up to see that there's really positive masks and influences and guys that embrace the role of, especially in this day and age, where everything is kind of not about the family and not about becoming a good man and not about leading the people around you to see everyone gather here for that, to fly down here, the speakers to get together and everyone to have really constructive advice about how to stay right and how to get right and how to build something that's gonna last and outlive you, it's just been fantastic. As always, I thought the 21 convention I went to in 2018 where I spoke was great. I think this is better and I think the events will continue to get better because the people make the event and Anthony really brings out great people. Well said. Steve, you're a newcomer, man. What are your first impressions here at 21? First off, just Anthony, I A1, I've never seen anybody with such passion, drive and devotion to help men become men, become great, Hunter, all of you guys. It's meeting great men, Socrates. I mean, it's like a kid in a candy store you get to meet the best of the best, and it's very rare that you get these opportunities, not just to meet great men, but also meet great individuals out there who wanna learn how to be great, who push their self-importance aside and push their ego aside and wanna learn and wanna grow and wanna just be great, not just great fathers, great husbands, great teachers to their sons. And just to see all this come together is just a mind-blowing experience. I thought I knew, but I just didn't know. And it's like you're just pinching yourself every day. It's like, this can't be real. This is, I mean, from opening day to even today and tomorrow and beyond, this is just a memory that will be entrenched in me forever because I expect greatness of myself and I expect greatness of the people I spend time with and to be able to be around greatness is really an honor and a privilege. It's great. Thank you. Our keynote speaker, of course, Hunter Drew, I can't imagine that the 21 hasn't been kind to you. Tell us about your experience. You're the guy on the marquee. This is the best 21 convention he's ever put on. Of course. I may be biased. Of course. But absolutely. Anthony is a very single man. And when I pitched this idea to him, I thought I was gonna be running it. I thought I was gonna have to figure out how to do what it is he does so efficiently and effectively. And I was willing to do that. So I pitched the idea. He's like, oh, that's really interesting. Got the call a few months later. He's like, no, it's green light and you've got access to my crew. He's like, I'm gonna put this on. We're gonna have my cameras, my crew, my staff, everybody. I was like, holy shit. I was crashed. I picked up the phone in the Jeep. I remember like, oh shit, I just pumped up. So I almost died the day it was green lit. What gave you the idea? Like, why did you pitch with Anthony? Was it an event? Was it in a confluence of events? What made the light bulb go off? It was the recognition that there are so many communities. There is like a divorced community. There's a pickup artist community. And you look at the family man community, it is just a dumpster fire. Yeah, it's lacking. And like, no, we need a pro male leading family focused community because family men face issues that other men don't. So it's great. You know, 21Con, 2018 and all the previous, it's such a wide net that you don't have the time because you're just so engaged with these men and all the things they're doing. You don't have the time to cover the breadth of leading a family. It needed its own convention, needed its own dedicated weekend towards having those discussions with other men, swapping those notes we can all lead and make intergenerational change. People's lives is incredible, man. This is nuts. I want my beard to look like yours one day. I'm gonna skip over Ken here quickly. I'm gonna go to Socrates first. You're a veteran of these 21 conventions. How has this one been different from the ones in the past? I'll be fair. I have my preferences on different conventions. I love the standard 21 convention. So it's so broad range and there's so many different things that you can plug and play in so much, but it is so intimidating and so much. It is so exhausting. And it just becomes a blur. You literally have to take notes. This one, it's still a blur. It's still exhausting. You're still thoroughly living. But the issue is it's singularly focused on one subject over several days, multitude of not only speakers, but different speakers, experiences, their life structures, the way they're attacking same things. What I find are not really so intriguing how we differ, but how remarkably the same it is. And so you sit down and say, I talked about humanity during my talk about evolution and some of the other elements of that and that in an AJ kind of coined it very nicely just a minute ago that masculinity is sole true ultimate expression of itself is the patriarchy, is creating a family, having a spouse, of having a committed relationship, of sitting down and having children in a family structure. That's a building block for everything else we recognize as society, culture, and civilization. And I think that is so terribly powerful to not only come in contact with other men who believe that speakers, but men who are spending the time, energy, resources to come here to learn and develop, to share, to experience, or even to kind of just questions, like what's this about? Let's just kind of take a look at this up close and personal. I find that utterly remarkable. It's terribly humbling to be considered, hey, you have something to say, keep and being keep brought back out. I sit down and say at some point this radio show is gonna end and I will have had a hell of a ride. But until that day comes, I just keep leaning into what I believe and I'm inspired and energized by both the other fellow speakers, what they have to say, as well as the conversations we're having in the hallways and at dinner and everything else that takes place. And the text messages, I'm sure I'll get well afterwards, or emails or any of those things. Those holy conversations. I mean, those are brilliant, right? I mean, obviously we can all be up here, but those holy conversations, conversations at dinner, the quasi get-togethers, the roundtables you have, I think that's where the real value is. And this was a change there too. This was the first time we actually had roundtable workshops where you're able to sit down and say, hey, it's not just about a lecture or a presentation and Q&A a couple minutes afterwards. You actually get a time, a good, actually as much time as one of the presentations to sit and singularly talk to a speaker or two who are presenting about a certain subject. The pain point was when they were having multiple simultaneously and you had to pick and choose. You're like, oh, this hurts. And I'm like, oh, this is awesome. And I tried to, you know, shamelessly sneak between a couple and others and try to get in as many as I possibly could. And I am kicking myself for the guys that didn't sit in on all of them. I really am. And what a testament to enabling that sort of dialogue and communication to continue and to have that back and forth. And I just, I wish I could have been on all of them. Just to sit in the audience and be a fly on the wall and to have sat and listened at length at the discussions between speakers and attendees and that dialogue about that particular subject. It's just absolutely tremendous. Excellent, thank you. Now, new with us on the panel, actually new to the 21 convention is Ken Curry. Now, Ken, you are a, you said you're a marriage and family therapist. Okay, all right. So my question to you, we actually just had a conversation. We're standing right here. I'm Donovan, I'm Ken. He's not related to Stephen Curry, by the way. I asked, how did you get here? Like, you know, what was, how did you find yourself here at the 21 convention patriarch condition on the panel of the red man group talking about fatherhood? Sure, sure. So it's been a great journey for me. I've been personally listening to a lot of what's been going on for the last few years. And then this last year, listening to some of the podcast, the YouTube videos that were going on, listened to Dr. Shanti Smith. And all of a sudden it found out that he's in town. I'm in the Denver area. He's in the Denver area. And so had coffee with him shortly after he just responded like that. We had coffee, we really hit it off. And we're, because we're in the same field and probably more profoundly we were both passionate about empowering men. And so we hit it off. Was that always the way it was with your particular, with your families, with your marriages, the fact that you empower men? What are some of the reactions you get from the wives? Because we all know that marriage counseling these days is quite literally the marriage counselor telling, husband, you're wrong, wife, you're right. You cheated on him, that helps the marriage. You should continue to cheat on him. And husband, you shouldn't say anything about it. Blame the husband, empower the wife. So yeah, yes, man up and accept the fact that two of the kids might not be yours, right? So what are some of the reactions you get from your female clients who actually sit there and listen to you try to empower men in the relationships? You know, as much as women do the strong independent thing anymore, it's like most women that I run into are aching for a man to be strong. There you go. They're like, I don't want to be strong. I don't want to have to be strong. And so when their man is empowered, when he's strong, it's like a woman can relax. And they love it when that begins to happen. Excellent, very good. All right, so we're gonna start the, I guess we'll restart it here. I'm gonna start with you, Hunter. The American father has been marginalized by our culture, our media, feminism. The question is why do you think fathers are marginalized? The obvious answer is feminism. But dig a little deeper. Why is the American father looked at as a buffoon? Just basically a walking sperm, a walking sperm bake and a wallet. You see how teenage girls treat their fathers like he's an ant, like he doesn't matter, like he doesn't mean anything. Why is that? I think it's a situation where feminism, that easy answer, sure, let's go a little bit deeper. When you hear a lie enough times, it becomes the truth. We've been told for how many decades the dad's a buffoon, the dad's a joke. Now it's the Homer Simpson, then the Peter Griffin, that's what family men are. Then you have Modern Life, where the hell after the show? Oh, Modern Family. Yes, with the guys in total doofus and the wife is the go-getter of business. And that's real quick series. Look at shows, look at movies, look at the sitcoms, look at the books. Everything is saying this. And the men who used to combat it, the men who were like, oh, my grandfather, he wasn't like that, but now he's gone. The men who used to stand up, that was your example of what, that this has to be wrong, they're dying. And the men are being raised up, we're being told no, share your feelings. So now you are the feel dumb for you, whatever. You are becoming the Homer Simpson. You think doing the truffle shuffle is what's gonna make people laugh and get your wife to fucking be turned on. And that's just, that's not how it works. But if you're told it from birth, nonstop, and everywhere you look, you're like, that must be how it is. And now fathers are just jokes. Now, Alexander, you're not a father yet. In your opinion, you're very young. You're only 30 years old. You're a millennial, correct? Yeah, I would be 89, yes. Okay, very good. So from a millennial's standpoint, why do you, you can see that fathers are marginalized. What's your opinion on that? I mean, I would take it like another step further. I would go back to the technological innovations of like the early 20th century. So with industrialization, with the rise of machination where you have a historical family structure, was intergenerational. So you have to take into account for most of human history up until probably about 150 years ago, roughly, your family, so your parents, your grandparents, your aunts and uncles, they lived in an extended area. And there was a division of labor where men did what was largely physical and women did what was the home. And that was a fairly, very defined sort of gender role. With the rise of industrialization, late 19th century, early 20th century, suddenly you have men and they're going to work in factories. And now they're out of the home. And this is something I think doesn't get taken into account today that for most of human history, people, they saw their dads working and they worked alongside them. When the industrialization and then later the rise of sort of corporatization of America and the rest of the world, we still have a situation where fathers, they're not only working outside the home, they're outside the home. You don't see your dad all day. So all you know about your father is that he wakes up the morning, says, I love you son, I love you daughter, leaves, and then he comes back in the afternoon. And then the wife, because she hasn't seen him all day and she probably misses him but also, yeah, she's a woman. So she kind of, she, bitches am, there's friction. And all you know about your father is that he's a beast of burden. He's so, men are things that go and work. And then they come back and I made X amount money today and I will get to spend a limited amount of time with my kids. And who's raising the kids? It's largely the wife. And then if you don't have an extended family structure, well now who's raising your kids? It's really just your wife and then it's what the school system. Oh yeah. And so now you have beginnings, the nascent beginnings of what would become sort of like the nanny state, which we call sort of modern education. Goes back to the Prussian system from the Prussian Empire of the 1800s. So you have this idea where your kids are gonna be raised by the state. They're gonna be a large raised by the mother. And then your dad is, like I said, he's the working man and he goes and goes off in a suit, comes back. And you see him one, two hours and socialize a little bit. You have no idea what your dad does. You don't know what he sacrifices. You don't know what his feelings are. You don't know what his intentions are. You really don't know what his values are. You just know that a man is someone that goes and works and provides. Like that's the big thing now, like with modern man, you gotta be a good provider. You gotta step up and provide. That's what we hear about that. We don't hear about leading. We don't hear about teaching. We don't hear about masterfully being a role model. It's all about providing. Then that's the big thing, feminism. Are you threatened by the fact that I can provide too? Oh God, no, I just can't. I don't wanna hear that. I take all this into account. And so I look at feminism today where wireman's so marginalized. They've had their role of being reduced down, Tyler, you provide me seed, basically, for children. Or are you working? I get to afford things on the cost of your life and you're working. So what is masculinity lost? It's lost its transcendency. It's lost elements of patriarchy. It's lost those values that you would learn from your father. Most kids today, when they look at their dad, it's just my dad's kind of a joke. He goes and works. And that makes him a good man. He's a good man because he goes and works. And that's it. What else makes a man good? It's a collective shoulder shrug. And you see that throughout modern media. You go back to meet the Walton, like the Walton family, the 1950s, look at the progression of fatherhood from 1950s to today, over 70 years, 80 years. The father is someone where you go to him with your problems, you go to him for wisdom. The woman, she is tempered by the father. Now it's the exact opposite. The dad's an idiot and he's basically an overgrown man child, the wife has to parent. Yes, and bail out of trouble. He makes a very good point. And I'll come to Socrates with this. You made a very good point, AJ. The American father on television has evolved over the decades. You think of Ward Cleaver from Leave it to Be There. Masculine father, their first kids. There was Eddie Haskell, he's kind of the jokester, but he was still there for his children. Then you go a few more decades. Now you've got Heath Cliff and Claire Huckstable. A little more masculine, but now Claire is a lawyer. So she's still different to Cliff, but even toward the end of the Cosby Show, Claire Huckstable was the man of the house. And you come now full circle with Phil Dunphy of modern family. He's the doofus, always has to be bailed out. Now AJ made another good point that said, okay, we largely didn't really know who our fathers were back in the 50s. He went and worked on the railroad all the live long day, but we didn't know who our father was. Not really, but we still respect our fathers. So where did the disconnect happen? Where did we go from not knowing our fathers and respecting them to not knowing our father? Well, we know more about them now than we ever have and marginalizing them. I think it's gonna be expounding on AJ's comment is that the culture's changed and we haven't paid attention and noticed the change. So for example, we talk about, dad leaves the home and truly leaves the home. And we talk about children being apprentices to experiences and expectation. Well, part of that is always gonna be based on what you see and observe based on behavior because we're mammals and we learn by imprinting. Here's one where you just don't hear talked about. How much of the American dream is actually real? Where are we really living? Are we living in a single family home like the Waltons or leave it to Beaver or something else? Or most of us, because of any number of social changes actually never lived in a home, single family home, or living in multifamily unit housing, okay? And you don't have this reference where, okay, dad goes out and cuts the lawn. Dad goes out and does house maintenance. Dad sits down and maintains it because when you're in multifamily housing, you have somebody else do it. You inadvertently, Tate made an advantage and amenity to living in a multifamily housing. And I don't say it was intentionally robbing father of an example of how to showcase, how to maintain and value things. We just don't, we take it for granted. And because there's this loss and we're not aware of it, we don't know we have to go back and showcase that. We now have cars. How many of us actually work on our own car? And theoretically, I technically could, but it's not the best utilization of my time. It's far better to me to take it to a garage, have it done, so I can actually work on my blog post or work on a book or some other project. So am I showing excellence in my children's presence when I do that? And I have to be consciously aware of now the lack of opportunities that they're not being exposed to. And it'll probably be beneficial to kind of start taking note and saying, okay, because these things aren't there intuitively or organically, maybe I need to go out and create that. Maybe I need to, in effect, put a challenge in front of my child artificially to overcome something and we can work on a project together. My daughter's now three. I can tell you the next time grandpa comes up, I'm getting a bunch of two by fours and a box of nails and all they're gonna do is drive nails into wood. So she has that experience because where else is she gonna kind of learn that? And so maybe we need to sit down and say, hey, part of this raising and culturing of children, and this is what men do. Women nurture, fathers cultivate. If you set up these structures to cultivate, you set up these life experiences intentionally. I know Hunter takes his kids out and they go out in the wilderness and they do, God knows all sorts of things. And I think a lot of the skill sets that they're picking up aren't just the trips to, to and from in the destination. It is the things you do along that journey. So taking your kid to the hardware store for no other reason to pick up one or two things and let them see the candy land store of home improvement projects and get him involved with that or forcing your kid to kind of, when's the last time you took a toilet seat up, a toilet up off of the pedestal and replaced the white? Those things detach, right? Yeah, they detach, and it's a serious thing. You're dealing with a shitter and you kind of explain this that we're gonna take some of the part and you're gonna have to put this back together. And like every good home improvement project, you never get it right the first time. You have to go back two or three times. And in what seems like a simple chore is an arduous goddamn task. Your kid kind of needs to see this because invariably, you sit in and have a child who then will be put into a situation like that, never having to realize and has these expectations of mastering and being able to do it quickly because that's how it's seen on TV. You look at particularly the feminization of the heroes in it. There is no transition to excellence. There is no learning or apprenticeship or doing these things. It just happens. Try and failure, try and failure. And there are just gonna be damn days you're like, ah, fuck it, I'll do it tomorrow. And they need to kind of see that and experience that firsthand. And I think in many ways our life structures change so much that we're not aware and so much has been lost that we need to take account for it and go back and pick up those pieces and reinvest that intentionally back into our lives. Very good, well said. Now, Steve, if ever there was, I guess the quintessential example of a true patriarch and my humble opinion, it would be you. You are clearly the king of your castle. You've got a beautiful family, wife, kids, you guys live in the house on the hill. You are living, I guess, the realistic embodiment of the American dream. So going back to the marginalization, I think you specialize in preventative measures. So what would you say to the dads out there who feel like they are marginalized? Because I don't get the impression that you are marginalized as a father. No, I'm not, I know I'm not, but more. Just an observation. Thank you, but more or less. Yeah. See, what's going on now is that we are being taken out of our nature and we don't even realize it. And it's happening to us in like three different phases or because everybody's road, their pathways are all different, but they all end in the same place. And there's three things that I wrote down. The number one thing is, you know, AJ was talking about the dad working, going to waste, Socrates and all these guys. What about the dad that's home and the dad that is being yelled at, the dad that's being screamed at, the dad that's being disrespected in front of his child. And then the dad will talk to you, don't make mom mad. Happy wife, happy life. It's mom's way of the highway, son. You don't want to make her angry. And all he does is curl up in a fetal position one by one, yet he's trying to teach you how to be a man. That's one thing. The second thing you have is, think about when we were small, our teachers were women. Most of our time, like AJ is saying, if dad's not home, we've got to get some type of education or we've got to learn. And where are we learning from? We're learning from something that we're not because a woman can't teach me how to be a man. She can teach me how to say yes, no, thank you and please. She can teach me that, but she can't teach me to be something that she's not. All she can do is love me because all of you guys out there, I don't care how old you are, you will always be your baby. It doesn't matter. You will always be your baby. And for that case alone, she is always going to protect you the best way she knows how. When you fall off your bike, she's not going to tell you get up, get off of your ass and dust yourself off. I'm going to give you something to cry about. No, she's going to get the nearsporn, a cookie and a kiss to make it feel better. So what she's doing is, she's taking you out of your nature. And again, for a lot of you young men out there who have been out of your nature, that's where you get confused and frustrated because you just don't understand something's not right. Here in the woman that I love of all, my mom is attaching her umbilical cord to me and just uploading information in me that's just not right. Teaching me how to be things that it's not right, mom, but I can't say that because I love you, mom. So everything you're saying is right. And I believe you because you love me, but yet I don't feel right. I don't feel right when I'm around guys. I don't feel right when I'm around girls. But then there's a third thing is the reinforcement of the TV, the media, the news and the magazines that's telling you to hang out with the food, hang out with women. You see it in Seinfeld and how I met your mother and all these shows where you gotta hang out with women. You gotta act like a dumbass to get her to like you. But then when you see that one asshole on the show who's smashing all the women, no, mom doesn't want to tell you about that guy because he's the winner, he gets it all. So what I'm saying is is that we need to get back to our nature because the thing about nature, it doesn't Facebook, it doesn't tweet, doesn't have an Instagram account. It's just goddamn a king. It doesn't care with those things as long as he does what he wants to do because as a man, everything I do in my mind is right, don't get me wrong. When you're around great men, that's when you learn from great men. That's when you humble yourself as a king because kings can learn from other kings to be greater kings. And that's the thing, you've got to cut the umbilical cord and they don't know how to cut the umbilical cord. So that's why they're out of nature and it's frustrating but you guys out here who came here, now you have a home, you have kings that will show you and guide you. So don't be mad at mom. Don't be upset at dad. Dad is only doing what he thinks he can because he is out of nature. So all he's doing is taking you out of nature. Mom is loving you because you're her baby. Doesn't mean she's wrong. It's just that's who she is at the end of the day gentlemen. Well said. Yeah, I think Steve, you made a very good point with regards to mom being the nurturer and a lot of men when they find the red pill, when you figure out what and who women really are, a lot of you have to reconcile the fact that you know what, this applies to my mom too. This applies to my sisters too. And there's a lot of rejection. You don't want to believe that your mom was out there doing crazy things. You don't want to believe that your sisters are hoes but that's the way it is. That's, listen, this is the way it is. And I'm gonna come to Ed here as we switch gears. We're gonna talk about Captain Marvel here for just a second. I know that's a hot but an issue. Ed, you're kind of a Marvel nerd, right? Kind of sort? I love it, man. I'm not gonna affirm it. I've seen every Marvel movie with the exception of, all right, now I gotta go watch Amman. No spoilers, right? Now I gotta go watch Amman, right? But that was the only driving thing. What do you think of, now you're here, right? On the Red Man Group panel. What do you think of the female Captain Marvel? Here's my thought process on it, right? We're doing all this stuff to empower women. And wherever you feel about that, that's how you feel about it. I'm gonna keep this and make sure it gets monetized like you're saying, right? But my bigger issue is that at the expense of all this empower women, what are we showing like we're talking about on the sitcom, right? That's where it was limited to for a while. But now we're showing our superheroes, where we're guys we're supposed to escape and fantasy into a fantasy world and see an archetype. Now we're marginalized that we're not, but taking away one of the places where kids, particularly young men, could get an archetype, an example, show them what to be and who to be and how to be it. One of the things that, man, I don't want to give spoilers, you know, we're big on that. But there was some things- We are big on that, right? I love it. We group that, too. Well, but there was some things, I mean, I went and saw the new Avengers. Oh, I haven't seen it yet. I love it. So there was some things, you know, and because the problem is, once you see movies through this lens, you can't unsee them. Right. And so now you're looking at it just like, is this really happening? And you know what it's like? It's got to be what crazy people feel like. When they're like, no, I see that, you don't see that? And they're like, what's wrong with you? So now you come up with this crazy one. So what I've had to do is learn to enjoy this stuff and kind of just look at that and go, you know what it's like? It's like that family member. That you love, but he's like a crackhead. And you got to like... I knew we were going to try that somehow. I knew crackhead was going to be mentioned somewhere, right? Or it's like, all right, come over just, you know, when he got to go, just let him go. And you don't judge that part, but you tolerate it because the overall experience, and what I'm saying is, you know, there's still quite a lot there. I mean, I love the storytelling. And I do like, for the most part, they do keep a lot of strong masks on archives and a lot of movies. What that said, you know, there's just a really big push and it's moving into the superhero era. It's moving into sports that were traditionally combative, fortunately boxing is resisting this softening and this feminization, I think. But we're losing places to be men. That's why this is so important for us. And you said something about the father thing about why men are being marginalized. You know, I was really thinking about it. I don't know everyone's background for sure. Educated guests just following guys who are all here and speaking. I think everyone had a pretty decent father figure in their home. I was effectively raised by a single mother. And I think about one of the things that I had to deal with them reckons at the point where I went through a four-year period as an adult where I didn't even speak to my mom, I was just angry, is my mom talked about my dad a certain way. My dad was around, he just wasn't around always. I mean, we knew where our father was. He took his place and was part of our life. But he didn't live in the home. I probably saw him four times a year. But if it was left to my mom's devices, we would have thought my father wasn't a shit. All right, here you go. And so I'm just like, and I think about this one story I'll tell. Whenever my mom would get angry that we wanted to spend time around our father, occasionally she would throw it in our face that he wanted an abortion. Right? What? And because of how I am naturally, like this isn't a front, I'm cool with stuff. Even as a kid, right? I just took that, and I thought even as a youngster, I was like, what is, why would you say that's one thing? Before my dad died, I asked him. I was like, you know, what's she just saying? This isn't, you know, is this true? And he looked at me and he said, we were broke as hell, of course I didn't want you. I don't think, you know what I'm saying? He just kept it real. I thought it was a good story. I know that. Of course, I never went into an abortion son. Of course we didn't. Hell no, I didn't want you. I was broke as hell. And I thought about that. And I thought about other times we were grown up and we just were, well, my mom had a, and she wasn't one of the ways I made peace with my mom when I was over 10 years ago. Is that I realized what you're saying? She's just being who she is. Right. She's not, you know, she did the best she could, she could, and I got a lot of good things from her, but there was a lot that I didn't get as a man, right? And it's a lot that I found my sister didn't get, needing to be guided. But eventually, you have to, as a man, you gotta get around guys like this because I'm one of the guys, you know, that's why I'll never, no matter what, no matter how big or how far my profile expands, I'll never speak poorly on anything I'm involved in here and I'll relate to Red Pill because that was my gateway to becoming a better man. There's no way around that. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for I got exposed to that stuff. But I needed that gateway. A lot of us stumbled upon it because we were trying to get laid or whatever. And, you know, right? Me too. Let's keep real. But at least other things, and a lot of that is how to be a better man and we're lacking in the house and we gotta seek it elsewhere. And that's where it comes down to. Good. Ken, how does this affect what happens with, because Ed makes a very good point, a lot of most single parents are single mothers. We know this. So your father ain't shit. How does that affect what you do? Have you ever had a family, a couple, you know, on the brink of divorce or partially newly divorced? How does it work in terms of the mother's narrative to the kids about the father? What have you, in your experience, what have you seen? Man. So the whole thing about narrative, period. I mean, it's what we're talking about. Like the narrative of fathers on TV or what's going on with Marvel movies or whatever. Narrative is such a gigantic thing. It's a story that is being told about, you know, whatever. So the story that's being told about fathers is huge, no matter what context it is. And that's what is so powerful about this event is everybody here is able to find out, you know, this is what a father is. Nobody tells us or teaches us this stuff. And this is awesome having this context where we can learn about this is what a father's all about. And so a lot of times with the whole thing of, you know, whether it's a single mom or just any mom is telling the kids about the dad, it's like it's just another narrative. And again, it's just us as boys or sons. You know, what are we being taught about what it means to be a man, what it means to be a father? And I guess the point that I want to make is that we just need to challenge. We need to question the narrative, challenge the narrative, find out what the truth is about our fathers, find out what the truth is about us as men, find out what the truth is about what is the power that we hold as men and fathers and how that power is given to our children in amazing different ways. And so it's just challenging the narrative of anything we hear no matter what it is is such a significant thing that we need to do in our culture, in our life right now. Excellent. Speaking of challenging the narrative, four of us up here have children and three of us do not. Is that right? AJ, no, Ed, no, me, no, but you four do. Hunter, let me ask you this. Okay, so challenging the narrative. Do you have a daughter? I do. What does your daughter do? What do you do when your daughter says, Daddy Drew, I want to be the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. I am woman, hear me roar. Well, what about settling down and having a family? I want to put that off till two my 30s. We got fathers out here with young girls who are seeing this narrative. How do you prevent that? What do you do when your kid starts to show signs of following the typical feminist arc in terms of life, career, family, et cetera? So my daughter's six. You say, how do you prevent that? Oh, wow, but that's what you do. You start early. So at six years old, she's already feeling a more traditional role and she's not getting any message from inside our home. She's not getting the message of, I need to sign you up to football so you can keep up with the boys. When he's talking about Captain Marvel and all these things, I think that's another sign of, they're just showing that they've got to follow what it is we're building. They're making a female James Bond. Are you kidding me? No, stop. So they're trying to push all these things. They're trying to, the female Ghostbusters, all these things that are happening. Why do you keep trying to follow what men have created and done? Why not make your own amazing thing? Captain Marvel, I don't know where the hell that came from. I've never seen it. But the point is, they're still following us. I'm not telling my daughter to follow the boys. I'm telling her, go out and be and express. It's your strengths are in you and that natural beauty of wanting to care for things. My son, give him a baseball. I don't even have to watch him. I'll see him in a week. He's fine. My daughter, she'll follow everything around. She'll start taking care of the house. She'll want to see. She wants to paint. She wants to do all these girly things. And my son has no care in the world about it. And I don't make her. So my son from the womb is throwing a ball. He's got these macro movements. But he writing his name. He's like, no, don't want to deal with that at all. My daughter comes out. Perfect, you know, penmanship, all these things. It's amazing the difference between the son and the daughter. How do you get a woman to become feminine? You raise her like a woman and not a son. We teach our sons like broken girls. And a lot of mothers and fathers are raising their daughters as if they've got to be boys. They've got to be peers. They've got to be equal. So you've got girls playing boy sports. You've got girls being pushed into boy arenas. You know, my daughter came up to me and said, I want to be the leader of a CEO today. I'd be like, all right, that's cool. Tomorrow it's going to change. She's a female. Fair enough. My 30-year-old. My wife's 32. My daughter's six. It's pretty much the same. I don't exist, of course. You know, it's like me. You feel that right now. Talk to me tomorrow. Talk to me 10 minutes. It's different. Cool. And sometimes do face that. And I think that is, at that point, you do the best you can do by giving advice. But you've already lost the ability to prevent it. Yes, absolutely. So let's use that example. Socrates, you said your daughter's three. Three. Three years old. What happens when she's 13 and she starts talking about this kind of stuff? What do you do then? You start the conversation before it even begins. OK, there we go. Preventive measures. Yeah, you preventive measures. You get in front of it. You're cultivating. And so there's an inflection point. It's not like I start cultivating right at the point of five, because that seems to be the inflection point for a number of biological reasons. I'm doing that in advance. So I was here. I gave a story about how I fully embraced changing my diaper, make it a huge event out of it. I absolutely own it. And nobody fucking changes a better diaper than this guy right here. I'm serving my mission to protect my family, and particularly in my daughter's need. She soiled herself. But the interesting thing is that as that continued through behavior, there was a time where she actually came to me because she had a soiled diaper. And so she's upset that she's upset. And you're like, awesome. And it's like, that's what you want to see. Now, the thing that made it really remarkable was mom was right there, right fucking next to me. And she chose dad because of the quality of care, the connection I have with her, how I manage and do things. When she had needs, she came to dad. And at that point, I knew I'm doing it right. Because I've already established this communication behavioral change, you can come. And so I have to build upon that. And so even though she's only three, it's already started. And it is going to be continuously. And not when she leaves home at 20 or whatever that benchmark is. As if you look at human evolution, we've increased the level of parental care and oversight. It's one thing to be a father. A patriarch is multi-generation. And so there are some comments here from grandfathers are just amazing to hear. And I literally laughed out loud. And Texas Dom sat down and said, it's amazing how fast your children become irrelevant when you have a grandchild. And he was in what it affords you to make amends for all the things you didn't do right, all these other things. And it's generational investment into a genetic legacy exemplified by that child. And so I expect this communication chain to go all the way to my death. And you sit down and say, Ivan talks about his family books and the stories and the letters they write. This is post-death. This is beyond life extension of cultural exchange, of expectations. And it's establishing experiences and expectations within the family structure and intentionally cultivating that. So when she's 13, it will be yet another continuation of the conversation we had when she was 12, when she's 11, all the way down. And ultimately, what I want to instill is long after my death, she's hearing my voice in the back of her head. And my voice is still resonating within her. Good, well said, well said. If we could, if you guys, we're going to take questions from the audience. If you guys can start going ahead and line it up at the queue here, when we, I'll come to you guys as soon as we see we have two or three. Steve, I want to ask you this question in particular, because Socrates said, my daughter chose me. And you see a lot of times, especially in American households, there's one ideology that dad has versus the ideology that mom has. Now that's going to happen, because the father is there to discipline, mother is there to nurture. But how do you become the more influential parent when it's clear that the wife wants to raise your daughter as feminists, and your son as, well, feminists? How do you become the more influential parent so that when the rubber does meet the road, they don't go to mom, they come to dad? All right, this is, that's a great question. I'm gonna try to sum this up fast. Get your crayons out. Okay, get y'all goddamn crayons out. Y'all know what I mean, write this shit down. Oh, there it is, another two mocks of this word. Oh, sorry, A1, all right. No, here's the thing. You see, this is why I was talking to you before on Friday, Friday, about the powwows. When I was ready to grant my fiance or grant her to become a Williams, we talked. Talked about religion, politics, schooling, discipline, Halloween, Christmas. We talked about punishment. We talked about all those things. But most importantly, what we talked about is I'm running shit. It's me, period. You're gonna have a role. See, I attacking three ways with my daughters. Three ways. First way is my wife. Her job is to show my daughters what it's like when dad is not around. And I expect her, and this is what I told her because if she didn't hit my 70, would we do? Fall back. Right, so she was there to teach my daughters how to cook. She was there to teach my daughters how to do laundry and how to clean and how to do things around the household when dad wasn't around. She didn't teach my daughters to stay on the internet because mom doesn't do the internet. Mom only goes on the internet to pay bills. Other than that, she's on her phone playing little video games by herself or doing puzzles or reading a book. That's all she does. Maybe she'll watch the food network. That's maybe her thing. But what she does, she watches it with the daughters. Now, that's coming from the mom standpoint. From my standpoint, the second phase is when I spend time with her, I make sure, just like you 100%, I make sure that daddy loves you. There's only one man that is ever gonna love you and it's gonna be daddy, and that's the truth. Daddy's the only one that loves you. But when daddy loving you, you've got to know that you have to learn how to play a role to get a great man to see you as a great woman. See, you learn things from mommy, but then you can sit and learn things from daddy. My daughters, cowboy fans, on Sunday, and now I go into my office with men so the wife doesn't disturb us. Now, she'll come in and ask, do y'all want anything to drink? Or do y'all want anything to eat? Or she'll cook for my guys, but they spend time outside of my office in their little pod where mom is with the daughters and they're watching football in their terms, but I teach my daughters to not try to be football players and learn things, but learn men, learn what we like. Fuck what you think. Excuse me, I was like, hey, no swear jar, god damn. Learn, sorry, learn men. Learn how they behave, learn what they like. Don't try to be them, just learn more about them so that you can separate yourself from them. And then the third thing we show them is the interaction between mom and dad. When mom and dad are together, they get to see dad and mom pillow fight, throwing water on each other, chasing each other around the house. We've been together for 20 years. They see that all the time. They also see dad taking mom out once a week, twice a week. And they always say, mom, you know, it's weird. My daughter's friends, they think something, my daughter's friends are think y'all guys are aliens because their parents don't go out at all. They're never together, but I want them to also see how a man and a real woman interact together. So again, they have a third barometer. They've got mom on one side. They've got dad teaching her and having her understand men, not trying to be a man, but understanding what you like and understanding that it's okay to, you know what, if he loves Marvel movies, yeah, I mean, then you need to get your ass in the theater and learn about Marvel movies. So when you're sitting down and having a conversation with them, you can talk about Marvel movies instead of what the fuck, God damn it, AJ. I mean, Anthony, God, I'm sorry. Instead of, I'm sorry guys, instead of talking about stuff that doesn't matter to you, I want my daughters to buy a man a drink. I want my daughters to show submission, but demand respect though, because she's a Williams until somebody takes her name. But one thing also dad told him, and I tell all my kids, I'm not gonna be a bastard granddad. You're gonna go to school? Wait, you gonna go to school first? You gonna get your education? You gonna find somebody and you gonna have a kid if you choose to do that? But you're not gonna, hey, if you do it, you can do it the way you wanna do it, but don't expect me to be cool with it because, hey, I'm running thing. This is how I expect you to be. But just real quick, I'm sorry, but what I was saying is that the importance of all of this is that I want good women to serve great men, not to walk all over. You're not gonna walk over no man. You're gonna follow a great man. You're gonna listen. You're gonna cook for him. You're gonna clean for him. You're gonna do things for him. You're gonna listen to him. You're gonna guide him. You're gonna back him up. But one thing you're never gonna do is walk in front of him unless he opens a door for you. But other than that, you need to know your place and that's it. But that's what, it's gotta be three fronts when it comes to my daughters because they need to know men, they need to understand the role of a woman, but they also need to understand the role when dad and mom are together. How they interact is so important. When they see mom and dad laugh and they're like, God, this is what I want. When they see mom and dad running around at 47, throwing water on each other and tickling, I still do, because I always do with my daughters, the daddy claw. Like when they talk a little noise to me, make fun, I say, oh, here comes the claw. They be like, stop, daddy. And I'm running and chasing them around. I want them to realize that just because we're older doesn't mean we ain't cool, but you respect your mom, you respect your dad and you respect the man who is gonna honor you with his last name. So I wanted to say on that. Very good, excellent. We got a couple of questions. Yeah, go ahead, the dean, ladies and gentlemen. So the ladies and gentlemen, Jesus Christ. Okay, so it looks like we've got a couple of questions here, one, maybe two. First up. Yeah, so as a recently divorced father of two girls, I'm curious, I'm gonna appreciate all that everyone said. So I was wondering, what can I do, because I can't trust that the, I have joint custody with their mother. So what can I do to, as a man raising two daughters, like you were saying earlier, we're learning from somebody that isn't us, how can I, what can I do as a man to help raise two daughters? So what you're asking is, you have split custody between yourself and your ex, what can you do to make sure your daughters don't get let astray? Exactly, because I can't trust that she can't do that. Can't trust anybody. Yeah, I don't have that control. Socrates, I'm gonna bunt this one right over to the, Oh my gosh, okay, here we go. Sacrifice bunt, by the way. I like how he did that. You gotta catch the ball with the bat. So here's the thing, you only can control what you can control, that 50, 50, whatever, that time that you have with your daughters, you have to take that and be able to give your girls your heart, your soul. I have a daughter who's 33, I have given my life to make sure she is the most powerful and most beautiful woman as possible. And so it's like I have spent my strength as a father to build this young woman to be just amazing. And that's what you just gotta be committed to. I'm gonna give them my heart and soul and make them the most amazing women as possible. So you'd be able to say like me, my daughter does not have daddy issues. And it's like it has to be something that you just are so freaking intentional about to make it happen with the time that you have. I would add into that. A lot of times their forefathers try to make time that's fun, connect, resonate. If a father's role is to cultivate, when you have very limited time, you're gonna need to make sure that you concentrate that cultivation. So you may wanna find fun activities that you can do together that would teach that cultivation and focus more on cultivating rather than entertainment and fun. And that will also help develop memories. And so you're trying to do that with very limited time. I wouldn't disparage the mother. I would really try to make sure that you are making sure that there's a separation between those two. You're not doing any additional harm. And then honest to God, concentrate the cultivation with your daughters and within yourself to make sure they see that and experience that. And because you have very limited time, less than a normal father would, and that's even tried in that circumstances. So just make very, very valuable use of your time. Excellent, very good. Next. And we're a little limited on time here, guys. We've got just over 12 minutes. So let's, in the essence of brevity. We spoke a few about daughters and kind of the feminine influence on movies and stuff like that. I'm kinda coming at it from, I have two boys and my wife kind of is trying to instill more feminine values in the boys. And I'm looking for some advice as to how to, one, I obviously know I need to become a more dominant father figure and that sort of thing. But how to, one, break that habit of her. So you wanna be able to have more influence over your boys than your wife does. Steer them, she wants them to do more cooking and cleaning and that sort of thing. Oh no, that's not gonna work. No, right, right. Hunter. So this new mantra I've been going off recently is presence over presence. One ending in a C, the other one ending with TS. You know, you're not gonna buy their love, you're not gonna buy them to becoming men. You set that example. You can't buy that and instill it in them and turn it like, hey, I bought you into being a man. You should be setting up their rate of passage. You should be setting the example from which they're gonna measure themselves because they're gonna follow your example, not your advice. Hey boys, I want you to be strong. Okay, dad, you be strong. Show me. We do this together. With the wife wanting to instill those values, that means you two aren't on the same page and that's highlighting another issue. You've gotta get her like, look, this is what I'm doing with my men. With my son, my wife will be like, oh, you know, you gotta count. The cooking thing, I think that's a life skill. Knowing how to cook as an adult is something a man should be able to do, but not because she's trying to push another feminine aspect of you're the cook of the house of the chef, but more like you need to be able to survive. Your boy should know how to grill. Cool, I'll teach him how to cook. Here's some meat, throw it on there, it's hot. Flip it over, go, it's hot, done. Go forward, when it comes with her, just let her know like, look, we're gonna raise him to functional adults, but these are sons and I am a man and he's gonna follow my guidance and I've already set this pathway going forward. So he knows when he goes from boy to man. You've gotta be intentional with that. It's like your modern day at Gogi. I know the Spartans are like hypermasculinized society. I get that that's the trope that everybody uses, but they had a plan, seven years old is go time. Got your boys, it's go time. You take them from the mother. You have to teach them these skills and they're gonna do what you do. I'll also add something here and I'm not a father, nor do I intend to be, but what appears to be happening is that your wife has recognized that her sons don't have an identity and the only identity she knows is being feminine. So of course she's going to, your wife might not necessarily be wanting to turn your sons into women, but she wants them to have an identity and if she sees that you are not giving them that masculine identity, she wants them to be something. This is why she's doing this. Good question though. Who's next? And actually I'll give one more. If you want masculine behavior, do something masculine with your child. Go work out with them. Develop a culture. You just take with your hands. Whether it's lifting weights, get it in a stupid kettlebell, do that. Or if you like running, go for jogs with the kids and kind of that packed mentality of doing things together and seeing it. I happen to like the weightlifting thing. You understand point that it shows strength. You're struggling, you're stressing, you're pushing things to failure and there's no shame in muscular failure or physical limitations and having that culture put your best effort in each and every time to good form. I think there's tremendous amount to be learned in gym culture. You're not gonna have mom introduce that in our lives. No. And it would be an outstanding opportunity to have a bonding moment while being productive and healthy and lesson planning and an outstanding resource for you. And just say no. No. Pull your woman aside, tell her you love her. This is gonna stop. You are no longer going listen, love my sons. Be their mother. But you are not gonna make my sons into a bunch of feminine girls. No, that is not happening. And she is gonna fight you on it. She's gonna get mad. She's gonna pout. Swear jar, so fucking what? I don't care. Period. Hashtag, swear jar. I'm gonna jump on that too as well. Because I had a very masculine father. I just wanna say this. Like this is somewhat of a game of frames. My mother is my father's wife. My father is not my mother's husband. Oh wow. So you need to really consider who is leading in this marriage. Is it the wife and your son see you as like, oh yeah, my dad is my mom's husband. Which one is it? Like you really need to consider what the frame is and what your impact is. Children will always follow. Socrates really hit on this point. Whoever the grace influences, whoever they have a connection with, that's who they're gonna model and that's whose values they're gonna take on. Yeah, that's more your wife right now than yourself. You need to really consider as a man, how can I, as Hunter said, have more presence. How can I make a deeper impact on my sons? How can my son look at me like my father and like my dad's a fucking man? And you know, if my mom got upset, would he get upset? Yeah, he would. But he never fucking acquiesced to her, ever. Right. Fucking, okay, whatever. There it was. That's $60 in here. If you're acquiescing already to your wife, you're like, oh man, I don't like what she's doing right now. But you haven't had that conversation with her? Yeah, get her upset. Go fucking do that. She's upset. Dad, you made mom upset. You know what, sons? Here's a teaching moment for you, Ron. Your father's gonna talk about women for the first time. Women, they're gonna try to get a reaction out of you? Yes. Okay, this is how you maintain, this is how you maintain frame. This is how you learn how to disable this. Then that's in their mind like, wow, this is my, for the first time ever, my father's actually explained to me how women work. And that's something that a lot of young men don't have. They never hear from their fathers what women are like, how women operate because a lot of the men today, blue pill, they don't know either. They don't know either. And they wonder why their sons are deferring to who is the stronger female influence, who is the stronger presence. Well said, I'm gonna end that question with this. If you want your sons to be masculine men, there is going to have to be a confrontation. Yes. That is inevitable. It's gonna have to be with your sons and it's gonna have to be with your wife. That is inevitable. Who's next? And we're up against it, guys. You got just over five minutes here. Yep, I'll be very concise. So, I believe with Dr. Warren Farrow, there was a boy crisis in society today where it kind of screwed. But living the right way, there are threats. God forbid you go through a divorce. If anybody looks up the red pill and you're a red pill guy and you're leading your house in this way, you can be seen, especially if they look at it as a hate group, there are threats. So, there's a challenge to living the right way, which is sad to say. Can you guys talk about navigating those threats and encouraging man to be man without fearing the repercussions of being sad, man? Yeah, I would defer to Hunter on this because you're the keynote speaker, you're front and center. Yeah, how do you navigate red pill fatherhood through real life? When you live in unapologetic lifestyle, people don't go after you because they know there's nothing for you. They're not gonna gain anything from you. You're not going to apologize and they know that because they probably prodded you. A lot of, dude, I'm here on camera right now. Like all of us, like I said in the last red man group, we're up here being broadcast to the world. People see it, so what? I'm not changing, don't change. That's it, we're making it more complicated than it is. Live the life on your terms, you set the frame, people will follow, you live, that's not gonna budge. Nobody can get inside your walls unless you let them. Excellent, very good. It's none of your business. Oh, go ahead. I just wanna say it's none of your business, I'm sorry. It's none of your business. That's it, period. You guys are worried about stuff that has nothing to do with you. Oh yeah, right. Stop worrying about everybody else and worry about fixing you because you're always gonna have haters knocking at the door. People envious and people who can't stand you for you being something that they're not. It's none of your business. There's an aspect to this, the social adeptness. If you, I've been attacked a lot for various things but I'm very hard to take down because I don't back down and also present an image where, because I've seen, at least by appearance's sake, I seem successful, I'm charming, I have myself together when people see me. Beautiful hair. I have myself together. I have it together when people see me, it's like, I wanna fucking hate that guy but damn, he's very well spoken, he's intelligent, like he seems to live a really nice lifestyle, like fuck. Because it's really hard to hate on success. So if you wanna be a man today and protect yourself, then present yourself in such a way where if someone wants to attack you, they're gonna be deficient because you are far beyond them. So then this goes down to, this is charm, this is being financially successful, this is being physically fit. These are all these things that masculinity shouldn't body. If you look heroic, people are probably gonna be hesitant about attacking you. Yeah, if they do attack you and it doesn't work, well fuck. So we'll move on to someone that's a weaker target. A lot of men make themselves weak targets today because they get someone upset, a woman's upset. They're fearful and then they wonder why they get picked at, they wonder why they get attacked, they wonder why they get marginalized. You set yourself up for that by making yourself, by presenting yourself as a victim. You can't live that way. Ed, you've got one last thing to. Yeah, I'm gonna add something to that. Asia's been attacked a lot. I've been attacked not as much, but have been in the past. But that's on the internet, that's one thing. I've had people in my personal life give me shit when they found out that they were a lot. I interact with Donald Trump Jr. or Scott Adams. You know, they're like, oh goodness, what's wrong with you? I didn't even know Scott Adams had a rep until somebody told me, right? Here's where I learned the valuable lesson. I spoke with Mike Cernovich last May or June. Wow, it's almost been a year. And I had two people in my personal life tell me that they couldn't be my friends anymore. Both women, right, whatever that is. And what I did, I said, it's been an honor being your friend. I wish you nothing but the best. Get on with it. That was the end of it. There was no retaliation. There was no right back. Actually, there was one retaliation. They actually went and stalked them on Twitter, copied and pasted something and said it to me and was like, was this about me? I was like, no, it wasn't about you, it was. But like, and when I say about, I mean, I was just motivated. That's how I tweet. I take experiences from life and just pop them out. But to echo that point, it's easy or to do it online, but it's still difficult. But when it's people in your personal life, same rules apply, right? And now no one, people I've grown up with, they don't say anything to me, because it wasn't when you were gay. Like he said, when you're together, right? Is it hurting my income? Oh, it is. Well, you showed me you're making more than me, right? They can't do that. I'm in shape, everything is all together. So either I'm doing something right and you're wrong, or I'm just, you know, I'm the man. I'm one or the other, you ain't got nothing to say. Well said. On that note, that's gonna do it for this edition of Red Man Group. Yeah, we're running short on time, yeah. I'm sorry to the last question where we're up against the clock. AJ, Ed, my man, Steve, Hunter, Newcomer, Mr. Curry. Your first name was Ken, Ken Curry, Socrates. Thank you all, this is a, I mean this is, you guys are an esteemed panel. We answered all the questions as eloquently, as eloquently as I struggle as we should. Guys, be sure to support the Red Man Group at patreon.com.forge slash Red Man Group. You can also catch the Red Man Group live on YouTube at 11 a.m. Eastern by tactical soap. Okay, by tactical soap. This guy, again, just like Hunter said in the first Red Man Group, this guy's putting his name, he's allowing us to mention their name. That's at great financial risk. So by tactical soap, support all of our creators. I'm sure all of our links will be in the YouTube video. That's gonna do it for this edition of the Red Man Group. Thank you all. What he represents is patriarchy. We're here to do work as men, as patriarchs. There's nothing more natural than being bombarded. What was your experience so far with the 21 Convention? Oh, outstanding, outstanding. Professional, all across the board. Really good energy with a lot of people. And I just like, it's a very positive direction. This, George, this has been a first class event. It's fantastic. You guys are in a really tight ship. I've been to a lot of conventions over the course of my business career and I can tell when things are well run and when things aren't. And this is a very well run operation. I was very impressed. It's pretty incredible to see where Anthony's brought it. Especially from last year, which was my first year here to see the upgrades he's made. It's been incredible. I've got my notebook and with every speaker, I've written down about two or three lines under each of the speakers of just, just the key prime stuff that I got. That's good. That's good. It's very surreal, man. I'm really enjoying it. I'm happy to live in such an era where such a thing like this is possible. I have never seen a group of guys like this. A group of 200 men who are focused, squared away, working on their values. Just never met a bigger group of wonderful guys. It's kind of neat because I've been to a fair amount of conventions in my day, but you never see one where the guy's like, here you can just see Ed Latimore talking to Tanner about boxing. Yeah. You just sit down and then you tell your boxing experiences. Everybody's kind of pinging off each other. It's nice. It has been fantastic. And it's been four days of guys all on the same page, working in the same direction. Fascinating meeting some of the people. Hearing their stories. You got people traveling from other parts of the world to come here just to see some of the speakers. That's amazing. The thing that's impressed me is everybody here is very serious. They're taking it close to their heart. What a great convention. Thanks, George.