 Well, good evening and welcome to Portland Rising. I'm Marion McHugh from the Portland Phoenix and each month the Portland Phoenix produces with our friends at the Portland Media Center a show focusing on news, interviews, arts and entertainment each month and we have some very interesting guests tonight. We have Doug Rooks who's a veteran political reporter in the state of Maine and the author of several books including his most recent which is First Franco, Albert Bellevue in Law, Politics and Love and he's going to be talking about an issue he's written about recently for the Portland Phoenix, the challenges and there are many facing CMP and a little later we're going to hear from Greg Levinsky who's a Portland native and nearing alumnus who's written for the Boston Globe and the Detroit Free Press and who's now writing a sports column for the Phoenix and he's going to be writing about talking about the return of tackle football so we'll get we'll get to Greg a little later and Doug can you tell us what you think are the big challenges facing CMP? You know it's really kind of hard to keep up with them all but in the simplest possible terms there will definitely be a referendum on the ballot in November just two months that would essentially decertify state approvals for a power line that is currently under construction to Canada from northern Maine that will then bring electricity from Hydro-Cobbex many dams on the James Bay down to the state of Massachusetts and this has caused multiple issues involving the legislature, the Attorney General's office, the Governor's office and it can get very confusing even for veteran reporters like myself. For instance the second referendum which is virtually certain now that will be on the ballot next year and that is a very different kind of measure it's not just about a power line or one construction project it's about the very existence of CMP central main power which has been you know Maine's public utility premier public utility for more than a hundred years so it's a very big deal and essentially it would take management and ownership away from the investors who have always supported this company and financed it and it would turn it over to the state of Maine and would create a customer-owned thing to replace both CMP and Verisant the former bag or hydro network which collectively served 95% of the people of Maine so it's a very big deal and most mainers haven't the clue about what it might mean and be and you know it's almost getting more complicated from the very beginning because just yesterday CMP or at least people who backed CMP's position have announced they're going to do their own referendum question which if I understand it correctly if we do decide on a consumer-owned utility publicly financed they will then have another referendum to decide whether we want to borrow the huge amount of money billions of dollars that would be required to do this so who knows where that's going so I think we would all be well advised to focus more on the current issue before us because that's what we're going to have to vote on in two months so that issue is a fascinating there's a fascinating collection of interest groups and supporters on both sides and they're very strange bedfellows so that might be a good place to start okay the hydro kebek line is the result of roughly 15 years of effort by massachusetts which was one of the very first states to commit to renewable energy main has done this we passed a big law in 2019 to do this but massachusetts did it long ago their problem has actually been doing it you know they had the law in the books and they have solicited multiple proposals to do this now the one that they ended up picking a couple years ago was originally supposed to go through new hampshire in other words a line from hydro kebek's dams down through new hampshire called the northern pass project and and then in terminating in massachusetts the same way the cmp line will do the problem there was they wanted to run the line through the white mountain national forest one of the premier recreation areas in the northeast and frankly that was too much even for new hampshire they had a special siting committee which unanimously rejected it however anticipating that result massachusetts already had a backup plan and we're the backup plan okay theoretically they could have run it through vermont new hampshire or main and the irony here is they have a permitted route through new vermont already unfortunately since it goes under lake champagne it's extremely expensive so they naturally preferred the main route which goes through the northern main woods an area that to opponents of the line is pristine wilderness and to the supporters of the line is industrial forest land you take your pick i think we can all agree and it's a very remote area of main very unlikely to be seen by most mayors today so it's really almost like what do you think about what's going on up there do you see wilderness do you see industrial forest land that's been producing timber for 250 years is a real tough one and the voters are going to have a lot on their plate when they decide yes or no so of course as usual the referendum is not that simple it's partly the result of i'm trying to be quick about summarizing this but it's important to know this the massachusetts proposal which got 100 of the power from hydro kebek was not very popular in new england and a number of the environmental groups including the conservation law foundation which does support the line with conditions and some of those conditions were actually embodied in the puc order approving it but they really were disappointed because they thought originally that it would be a mix of sources you know some hydropower from canada but a lot of renewable energy projects in northern main which is right near the line and those projects are on the drawing board and they could still be built but they weren't awarded by massachusetts so they'd have to be separate constructed with approvals from the state of main so it gets very confusing and complicated because you have environmental groups on both sides of this issue you have republican legislators on both sides of this issue you even have a couple of democrats who support the line even though most legislators don't and governor janet mills who probably is the most important voice here does support the line as does her predecessor call the page who's running for governor so you know it's a real tough one and i think the biggest problem for the voters is just sorting all this out you know it really is very confusing so i think at that point i could probably use a question from the host yeah a couple of things that are striking that you've mentioned in your story the retro activity provisions that are in the referendum as well as the fact as you alluded to two separate questions that um that you know gas companies fossil fuels as you said strange bedfellows have aligned on either side in terms in terms of pouring money uh into this very very um controversial question are those things you can talk to i it is that because a lot of people are worried about the retro activity provision and how important is that well i think it's i don't think it's very important to the voters because they're just going to give a yes or no verdict i think it's really for the voters about do you think hydro power from canada is a good idea it has some benefits remain we clearly get some benefits but most of the benefits flow to massachusetts indirectly we get cleaner air as a result because if hydro power flows to massachusetts they will shut down a lot of fossil fuel plants particularly natural gas and that affects our air so in some ways it's a win for the environment but it's it's it's complicated so i think the um the voters will probably be thinking okay is hydro power from canada despite its flaws better than continuing to run natural gas plants in new england that would be a crucial consideration for them the retro activity part is necessary to the cause of the people who wrote the referendum because they they tried to get a similar question on the ballot last year and the spring court said that's not a properly framed question we're striking it from the ballot so it's come back in a different form which includes these retro activity clauses they're basically two they would say the puc approvals which were relatively recent 2019 i believe going into 2020 we would you know say that that order approving the line is null and void the other one is really more interesting it's from a 2014 lease granted through the lapage administration that allows this line to run across public reserved lands now we should you know this is a concept that many mayors are fallen from new rift so you have to understand public reserve land is simply publicly owned land that's managed for the benefit of public it is not a state park we don't have any state for us so it's not that it's simply land that's held by the state for the benefit of the of the highest and best used remainers now in 2014 with very little ado the administration the page administration got the bureau of public lands to approve this leak lease saying there was no significant impact on the existing values of that land which is very remote i mean it's not like anybody goes there very often so however the lease in the estimation of many people was very poorly done and they didn't provide much of the way of reasoning so when janet mills took office in 2019 as a supporter of the line she basically got the bureau public lands to issue a revised lease so both of those leases would have to be revoked for you know for the line to be actually cancelled otherwise you get into all this legal stuff where one agency is saying yes others are saying no so they kind of went for the whole enchilada and said all these leases are cancelled but there's also a current court case in which there has been a ruling at the superior court level that the lease was improperly granted however the supreme court of main which will probably rule before november on this question may in fact reverse that so you know it's it's a headscratcher but i do think voters would be well advised to just think about the question of let you know do you think this is a good idea or not and then allow the courts to do their job if they need to clearly if the referendum is turned down all those legal questions i just mentioned our boot but if it is approved you can be guaranteed that cmp will be in court contesting you know the terms of the referendum whether it's whether it's really a properly grafted law and i you know many people who study this for a long time and are not passionately involved on either side say you know it's a really tough stretch to imagine this referendum will be constitutional because primarily of that retroactivity provision so it's a long answer to a short question but that's where we are these days and i think you said they're still cutting in that area because there's been no injunction to prevent it even though justice murphy did rule police was correct there is cutting going on there was a separate case a different court case before the federal court appeals in boston first circuit and they did grant temporary injunction but then the when the full court heard the case they lifted the injunction the court is going ahead they are clearing their widening section from lewiston to the contested area the new cutting that has been going on they're putting up polls and all that and they are going ahead uh last i heard they've probably done about 20 percent of the new section of the 53 mile line to canada so that is going ahead the court case that justice murphy ruled on is about the lease only it does not it's not stop them from constructing and cmp for whatever reasons they have decided to go ahead with construction and i think their belief is the fact that they're providing a lot of jobs and in an area of high unemployment may sway a few voters to their side and but if they lose the case they're they're out a lot of money clearly they've invested a lot of money in a project that then is belly up so you know there are a lot of risks on both sides here it's very interesting thank you we've about used up the time and if there's any final thoughts that you have to to share or observations my final thought is we may be asking the voters to do too much through the referendum process normally these big complex issues are handled at the legislature and we have an odd situation where the governor and legislators of her own party are very much at odds here and that's a difficult situation normally this would be and the legislature did pass this you know they didn't pass the well no they earlier they did try to shut down the line and they were unsuccessful because Janet Mills vetoed those bills she also vetoed the public power bill this year and i think you know in some ways for our system to work effectively we've got to get those people back on the same page because you know the legislature and the governor ultimately are the best um are the best places to resolve these issues the voters are going to have a tough time and i would not be surprised if we wake up in the day after the election say oh my god what did they do but you know i'm not sure that voters really should be asked to make such complex decisions that that's my thought thank you duck that's very interesting and helpful as as we approach november you're welcome turning the page very dramatically uh we have greg levinsky greg is our our sports columnist and greg um we're talking about tackle football yeah for sure well it's back um main was one of very few states uh last year that totally eliminated tackle football um because of coven of course there was some seven on seven flag football which uh served its purpose for a lot of kids but i think tackle football being back is really good for a very large subset of kids which are the linemen the big the big fellas up front both offensively defensively those don't exist in seven on seven football so it's great that those kids can get another opportunity to get back out there and represent their schools um i know that tackle football obviously comes with its risks of course uh with concussions and and injury and all that but i do think it's it's important to focus on the perspective of looking at high school football as a community event something that people rally around that towns rally around student bodies get excited for and i know i'm looking forward to getting out to the Deering Portland game uh and not cheering on my alma mater but uh coming up with something interesting uh for later in the week and you know it's funny a few months ago it seems like tackle football coming back was going to sort of usher in this sense of what we thought was normalcy um and now maybe not the case uh with you know delta variant and coven 19 but i think something that is wonderful is hopefully that tackle football can serve as an outlet for a lot of these kids uh as our times continue to be pretty crazy and unpredictable i think is the best way we can describe it you said it and it's a very tough time for these kids they've just gotten back into school a lot of them because they weren't even in school for much of last year which was something and to you know it's like what does it mean you know for these kids now to be back in school and to have their extracurriculars whether it's soccer or football is incredibly meaningful um and i hope i i guess so far even with the variants out there things are moving forward it seems so yeah i mean i think that there are certain obviously protocols in place there have been quite a few games that were canceled in week one i think something like eight games or eight teams were impacted by covid but some games canceled across the state so it's obviously something that has to be watched for at all times and it's something that is sort of in the back pocket or in the back of the minds of coaches athletic directors student athletes parents that never was around before for high school football um so it definitely or high school sports i guess last year had to deal with it so there's some sort of uh idea of how to how to roll with it but um like like we all know watching you know reading uh the the delta variant and and perhaps others are a little bit different than than what we experienced even a year ago today um that being said i think that a lot of these schools uh had great success with staying open last year uh with whatever they chose to do in their hybrid model or having kids back you know three or four days a week one or two days a week whatever it was um schools did find a way uh it may not have been perfect and it may not have been easy i'm sure it wasn't easy um but i think that it's definitely inspired a lot of resiliency for kids and staff members so um you know it's like like we know uh anything can change at the drop of a hat you know on a moment's notice uh but hopefully you know more good can come out of it than than the risk the the portland school system seems is very steady this year on getting kids back into school even though there's you know there's been some disagreement people think there's not enough careful protocols so let's let's hope that they're able to continue but i'm wondering i have to admit i've never been to a dearing to the Thanksgiving day game so perhaps you can and i know it means a lot obviously you know it's funny i was talking about this with one of my friends the other day and um i am a what third generation dearing alum um my dad went there his two brothers my cousin two my cousins my sister my grandfather who's turning 95 soon um so it definitely runs in the family uh something that my dad tells me about uh was that the dearing Portland Thanksgiving day game used to get like 20,000 people or a huge huge amount of people and now it doesn't um and that's really unfortunate every year it seems like there's talk of canceling it um and that's too bad because the players really care um i think it's unfortunate that the community doesn't necessarily rally behind their schools with with the pride that that they used to and i think there's obviously multiple reasons for that people move away more for jobs or whatnot but i think that it's really important and maybe this pandemic can be a turning point where people get more excited about what's right in front of them and i really hope that people do go out because the kids care so much i know the new dearing coach john hardy is a dearing alum he graduated i think in 2011 so i know it will mean a lot to him and those kids um and for the people that still do enjoy it it does mean a lot i just hope that more people can uh realize or enjoy what what's right in front of them because it's i think that when people go to high school games and support high school athletic events it elevates the play and makes it more fun for the kids it's fun as a spectator or as a reporter it's enjoyable to see the kids competing hard and having their attention it just goes back and forth and really complements each other so you know i i hope that uh i hope that high school football and every other sport gets good crowds i think it's important to share the stories of the student athletes especially i mean the coaches too but i think especially of the kids it's really important to get their stories out there so people can uh have people's root for i think it's really awesome to have someone local nearby to root for you know and and when it's when you live on dark mystery and you can walk five minutes Fitzpatrick stadium and show up and you know be even for a quarter um it would mean something to kids and parents and and coaches so i think for me i have you know portland sports mean a lot to me personally um because of i think because of my dad and uh my family uh even though none of us are very good athletes we can all admit that but we do love sports um and i hope that people uh i hope there's like a renaissance or resurgence of people caring because i think it's really important builds community um and i like to see sports as a lens to you know everyday life as a microcosm of everyday life and i i really do you know have faith that people will return uh to these things sort of renewed as i mean i think we have in everything uh whether it was our first trip back to the grocery store or our first time back in the restaurant or whatever um i think that we all have come away with relishing things that we have access to so um you know let's hope that translates to uh local sports well gregg i know you like sports at all levels and you know you've written about the red socks or and the sea dogs you know for the globe but there's something about and the people i know and the writers i know who are very interested in there's something about high school sports that is really means a lot and as you said sort of telling the stories of those kids and what it means to them um and i think that's that's that's great that's very interesting and very meaningful when do you have um i suppose it's too early to like handicap what are the top teams here or who you're looking at yeah that's tough i mean honestly i'm really with this column and in general i'm really want to be focused on the portland schools if i can portland during you know maybe some chevrus and wainfleet obviously the kids that go to casco bay because i think that something that happens with high school sports in general is there are so many stories that go untold because i bet you know on a 60 person football team i bet 50 of the kids maybe not 50 40 whatever of the kids have a story that would be worth publication somewhere so i think that it's really critical that we share these stories because they're otherwise they're just never getting out um and you never know who it can help um it really means a lot to me personally uh when when a family is pleased by a story and they share it not because it's my work but because it demonstrates pride for the story that was told and they wanted people to to get out there and it might help someone depending on the subject matter of the story and it doesn't have to be necessarily something sad it can be about someone's business they started or something they do on the side and someone might say oh like a little kid might say mom i can do that too i think it's really important that that little kids get role models and hopefully you know if they read a story about a kid at portland high school or they hear about it their parents read about it and say hey did you know about this kid uh who's a junior at portland and they might you know get excited i know when i was little i had kids and and athletes who were in high school in the local area that i looked up to i don't think i'm sure they didn't know that i looked up to them and i don't know what a lot of them are doing today a lot of them probably didn't even play in college um but i think that everyone can find a role model uh in their own high school next door so great well thank you that's a great description and we're really looking forward to having your coverage and your columns in the phoenix uh fall goes on so thank you very much and thank you all uh for being with us tonight please join us please join us next month when we will have another edition of portland rising thank you