 You got to have motivation, you know? And I tell people, you know, I try to get people, I'm passionate about real estate, I love it. I, you know, it's just something, I mean, I love to do it. So when you love to do something, you're gonna do it. But so I had the initiative because I wanted to make money. I didn't want to be poor. So when I dropped out of high school just because I wanted to make money and I started, went to work, went to work for a cabinet shop and my boss at that time, a nice guy, good guy, he was going through a divorce and he was going through some issues and then, you know, the economy hit. And so it wasn't 18 months after I worked for him, he had to let me go and he was losing his building and et cetera. So I started building cabinets out of the back of a duplex. Now I'd already had an interest in real estate before that. I had a, my mom's boyfriend had been following guys like Dave DelDotto and, oh gosh, you know, there's a bunch of them back then. Anyways, so I had gone to some of those seminars and I got a little bit motivated and I read all the books and, but what really brought me into it, what really opened my eyes was I've been working for this cabinet guy for 18 months, got thrown into business for myself, outgrew the garage that I worked in for doing cabinets, which was easy to do because it's such a small garage. And then I rented a place and then I ended up moving into the building and then I got, I was told, you can't live here, this place is gonna burn down and you're gonna die and we're gonna get sued. So I had to start looking for another place. Well, contact real estate agent and he says, hey, Tom, let's go look around. He showed me places at a friend and well, he goes, I got another place. He goes, maybe you can buy it. And so I'm like, you gotta imagine I got long hair. I got hair down to my shoulders. You know, I always looked like I was stoned even though I wasn't only because I had allergies so damn bad. And so he says, oh yeah, how am I gonna buy some? And he says, well, let's take a look. So we pull up, he pulls up to my old boss's building where I had just worked my first job basically. And I said, well, how does that work? I knew the building and he says, well, you know, and times were bad. This is right after the gas crisis. And you probably don't know or remember, but they had a gas crisis where you could get gas every other day. Another were in odd days. You've had an odd number on your license plate. You could get gas even days, even numbers anyways. But interest rates were coming down from like being 15% to borrow money for even a house. It's crazy, really bad. And so these guys had this building for sale. They were owners, you know, probably 70, 80 miles away. And he says, well, he goes, maybe they'll finance it for you. And so this is my introduction to owner financing. And so I'm like, this sounds great. And I didn't have any money. I didn't have any money. Handle rent, but I couldn't handle it down payment. And so I figured out that, well, I can, I could raise the money in six months. He goes, well, we'll ask for a six month escrow. So that's what he did. We asked for a six month escrow. And what, you know, what we threw in there was, you know, a six month escrow with the buyers right to move in so that the place doesn't get damaged because we worried them about graffiti and break-ins. So they said, no problem. So I got a six month escrow, I moved in and now I didn't have any rent for, you know, six months. That's a big place. This is 6,000 square feet. You know, my previous building that I was renting wasn't even a thousand. So I was excited and, but I was saving money. I thought, hey, worst case, I'll move out in six months. You know, and so, but at the end, I saved the 10 grand because I wasn't paying rent. And so I paid that and I moved into the building and it wasn't probably a week after I moved into the building. They still have the for sale sign screwed to the front of the building. And he says, a guy stopped by and asked me, he said, Tom, not Tom, he just goes, hey, what do they want for the building? And I go, well, it's not for sale. I bought it. He goes, well, what'd you pay for it? And so I told him, I paid 110 for it. And he goes, well, I'll give you 20,000 more than you paid for it. And I'm like, whoa. And I'm like, well, I don't want to sell it, but that registered 20 grand was more money I'd ever seen, you know, I never had 20 grand, you know, and it wasn't hard to figure out, wow, I just made $20,000. That's what I felt like. So I continued in with my business. And then, but that was such an eye-opener and a motivator that I began looking for other properties. And I started going to looking at single family homes. I looked at anything around me, anything for sale. Same came up in the neighborhood. And that's what I tell you in my book, plug my book here, wake up and smell the real estate. This is on Amazon. You can get it for 10 bucks. It's like a course. I mean, you'd pay thousands of dollars for something, you know, it won't take you near as far. But that motivation sent me to looking for houses. And I made cards that said, I buy homes under 50,000, which was unheard of there and they laugh. You know, you give it to a real estate agent and he says, yeah, well, yeah, I buy houses under 50,000 too. I said, well, if you get one, you can't buy, let me know. And so that was one of the things I did. The other thing is I just called in every for sale sign as soon as they came up. And you got to consider, if somebody's on a property for 20 to 30 years, it's probably paid off, right? And back then, you know, the banks were probably giving them almost 10% interest because you could actually get that much money on your money in the bank. It's hard to believe. But you could. And so that was a little bit of a fight, but I would always offer to say, how about owner financing? Because that's what I was introduced to with my very first deal. And a lot of them couldn't do it. And so the first several that I bought, I'd found somebody else that had money. So I went to a buddy of mine that was a computer programmer back then and he had money, but he didn't have time. You know, between being self-employed, you kind of own your own schedules. So I asked him, so anyway, I just started going and I'd find house. I'd be the first one there, make an offer, a low ball offer, but I'd offer cash. And sure, that's always the best thing, offer cash. It didn't matter that I didn't have it. At property, I know it's worth $50,000 and I have 30,000 cash, 30 days. It's not a problem because I'll find the cash. And that's what I did. So I had my buddy, Dan, probably did the first couple deals, he had the money and then after two or three deals, we split the profit, I got eight grand, he got eight grand, and then six grand, six grand, and we had another one. And he goes, hey, Tom, I don't wanna sell this one. And I go, well, there's probably $15,000 profit, just give me six grand. He gave me six grand. Well, now I had enough money, I was operating on my own. You know, I had probably $25,000. And I bought a house actually, I bought a house for myself. Well, that was when I was 25. But this is still early, we're starting in 20s now, early 20s. Then I found a building, I found this hardware, plumbing and hardware place that wasn't operating anymore. And so, this is a nice building, it's by my, well, I found out who the owner was and then I just dug and dug and then I said, no, they're going bankrupt. And I started just trying to find people that knew him. They go, oh yeah, I know they're living 20 miles outside of Thailand, a town in a little motor home. And so I went out there and talked to them. They said, yeah, we're just going to let it go. And I said, well, look, how about I give you 10 grand and I just take your position, you know, and we'll bail it out before it goes into foreclosure. So I went to the people that were foreclosing on him. And I said, hey, rather than foreclose on him, how about if I just pay the note to you? Because they were carrying it out. And they go, no way, you know, they got to see me, wrong hair. You know, I was a smart guy and a decent kid, but they weren't interested in that. So I had to go find the money again. And I went to my old boss when I used to work for a steel, steel, steel constructor, a building constructor, John Brooks, a really great guy. In fact, he was, he was probably worth $100 million when he died at 60. And he was, he was just a, and he bought all kinds of property. He didn't make it all in real estate. He made a lot of it in steel buildings, but really good guy. But anyways, I went to John and said, hey, John, I go, hey, come, come look at this building. You got to see this building. And I hadn't worked for him for a couple of years. So he comes over and I said, man, it's worth, gotta be worth 220,000. Said I can buy it, I can get it for like 170, I think. And he comes over and looks at it and he goes, he goes, hey, Tommy, he goes, yeah, this is a good deal. And I go, well, let's buy it and we'll split the money. And he goes, well, you know, I don't want a partner. And I'm like, huh, you know? And he goes, how about I give you 20 grand and you just go away. And I'm like, oh, that's a fantastic idea, you know? And so that was my introduction to a signing property. And I make, and that's in my book too. It's assignments, making money with assignments. And what I did was, you know, of course got that 20 grand and now I just bought another one. But I kept looking for owner financing. I didn't always get it. And by the time I was 25, I'd owned enough real estate and turned enough, mostly just turned, turned, turned, except for the building I was sitting in. But now I could actually go get a loan. In the first loan I got, I bought a house for myself, 3,000 square foot. Again, it was a great deal, a divorce sale. It was like I said, it's a big, huge, Brady Bunch looking home, huge kidney shape pool. Really, really awesome. And I bought that, rented out half of it to a friend of mine that was a painter and just kept doing the same thing over and over. And then by the time I was 28, I didn't need my cabinet shop anymore. And a guy came in and asked me, he asked me about my cabinet, my cabinet. And he asked me, I said, that was in a good mood. And he wanted a light frame, like $160 thing. And I go, yeah, I can make it for you know, 100 bucks. And he goes, 100 bucks. He goes, I can do it myself with that. And I'm like, hey, go home and do it. And I opened the door and just let yourself out. And I was done with business. I was done with that. That was like a job to me. I was done. So a friend of mine said, Tom, actually a friend of mine said, Tom, you own this, right? You own this. I go, yeah, you own this and this and this. And I go, yeah. And he goes, why are you even working? He goes, why are you even working? And I started doing the math. And I thought, yeah, I mean, because I keep myself broke in real estate. I would just buy and buy and buy. And if there was $1,000 a month cash flow coming in, that means I go buy something and handle a negative $1,000 cash flow for a little while till I get it on his feet. That's kind of what I still even do to this day. I don't over leverage at all. Don't ever think I over leverage. Everything I buy, I buy under market. So that's my hedge. If I'm even gonna put 25% down, it's gonna be worth at least 25, 30% more than I'm paying for it. And so ultimately I'm gonna be, I'm gonna have at least 40% equity in it the day I buy it, no matter what I pay for it or how much I put down. But, so for people just starting out, that was your question mainly, wasn't it? I have a follow-up though and thank you for sharing. I think a lot of people have a question like, can you dive me a little bit more into owner financing exactly what that is? Sure, so owner financing is just exactly what it says. Instead of going to a bank to get the money to buy the property, the person that you're buying it from, they finance it for you. So they're gonna have a lien on the property, a first trust deed, a note secured by a first trust deed, I should say. And that's it. And pretty much that's it. And there's a lot of reasons for people to do that. If they're gonna put their money straight in the bank, what I always say, look, if you're gonna put the money in the bank, you're gonna, they're just gonna hand it to me and they're gonna make 3% on you right now. Back then I'd say they're gonna make, I'll give you 10%, the bank only wants to give you five. Yeah, you know, because rates has started going down by that time. But yeah, basically, and I've carried a lot of notes, I've done that too. And, you know, there's some dangers in it. People will stop making payments on the note. And- But you have the lien on the property. You have a lien on the property. You don't always want it back. I can tell you, I kind of went from commercial buildings to houses to commercial buildings, then to land. Huge opportunities in land, huge opportunities. I agree. My best investment real estate was land, just bare land. Yeah, yeah, I know, I got a video coming too. In fact, the one I just put out, you know, meet Kevin. Meet Kevin was kind of dissing land. It's because he doesn't know what he's doing. He doesn't ever dealt with it. You know, he'd never dealt with it. But land is the biggest opportunity. It's one of the best, biggest and best opportunities out there. One of the best things about land is the people that really want it and buy it, they know more than anybody about it. They know more than the realtor knows about it. And they're the ones that'll pay cash, especially if you get developable land. You know, you go into any area, if there's a vacant lot, and if there's a house on each side of it, guess what? That is a buildable lot. That's gold, yeah. We'll find out who owns it, you know, I... And chances are that's the best part about land is somebody will finance it for you, even if you don't have good credit. Yeah, well, let's talk about the owner financing thing because like mortgage interest rates have dropped completely, especially in today's environment. So what are the percentage rates usually that the owners of the property are giving out the owner financing for? Well, it's not that they're giving it out. Usually you're talking them into or you're bringing it to their attention, but you know, you want to be a little more, I mean, in general, let me go to this way. People say, yeah, I'm getting a 3% interest rate. Well, I'm refining to get a 3% interest rate. I said, well, what's the APR? They don't even know what I'm talking about. Because what you have to factor in is when you refile a loan, you've got to get a title policy. Okay, and sometimes they charge you half a point for the loan and then you figure it out and it turns out to be a 4% or 5%. And the reason I mentioned that is because, so to your point, if the rates are 3% and somebody, I'm trying to convince to do, to finance the deal, I'll say, I'll give you four and I'll give them four. And if they say, well, I want five, I'll give them five because there's no qualifying. It's like that. It's agreed, sign it, done. And give you an idea. I was in Starbucks about, golly, how long ago? Probably about two or three years ago. And then we know I'm a very established wealthy guy now. And I was sitting in there and I have a friend of mine that needed to do something with a hundred grand. I said, look, I'll just borrow it from you. And I'll pay off a property, I have a $100,000. I'll just pay it off and I'll owe you. Yeah, that's okay. And so I was sitting in Starbucks and one of my lawyers came in and I said, hey, John, I said, do me a favor. I said, I need a note written up for a hundred grand. Secure it with this property. And see, this is kind of, I'm borrowing money against my property. Basically, reversal. And explained, and John knows, John closes all my deals anyways. And he goes, he walks away. He goes, okay. He goes, when you want that by 11? And I said, yeah, it's nine now. I'll be there in your office at 11. He says, okay. And he goes to leave. And then he goes, hey, wait a minute. He goes, all right, do you need any more money? I go, yeah, I'll take 700 grand if you got it. And he goes, you know what? He goes, 4%. I go, yeah, 4%. He goes, I don't know if I got 700, but I probably got at least five. I said, okay, good. And I said, write that up too. And so, as long as it taught me to tell you this story, I just borrowed $600,000. And there was no qualifying. I mean, I'm pre-qualified because they know my mean. Plus you have collateral, there's collateral on that. And there's collateral on that too. And there's collateral. But guess what? There's gonna be collateral in anything you buy that's real estate. If you're gonna buy it, the collateral is the real estate. And in fact, I've used that line on people say, well, I don't wanna do that. What if you don't pay it? I go, hey, it's collateralized by your property. I go, I mean, your collateral's good, right? And kind of turn it on. But in general, owner financing and buying land are really, really huge opportunities. I go together like bread and butter. There's more owner finance land than there is bank finance layer. And people say, I'm afraid of land. I go, well, what do you think your house is sitting on? You know. It's just a lot of fear. People don't, you don't know what you don't know. And that's why it's important to be careful who you pick for a mentor or who you pick to take advice from because a lot of people are running around out there claiming to have specific knowledge. They don't know. They don't know. And so they're teaching theory. It's theory to them. They've never done it. I'm from Toronto and we have a pretty crazy expensive market per square footage. Like a million dollars will get you a piece of shit box under 2000 square foot with probably like 20 foot yard. Like it's nothing. And no garage, no nothing. Like it's ridiculous. Yeah, no, they have lots of those places around the USA. Oh yeah, San Francisco, New York. Yeah, yeah, they're all over the place. But what's becoming very popular going back to the land is developers are coming in and buying. Most of the construction was done post World War II. That was kind of where the boom was. And so these old houses in certain areas of Toronto have pretty decent lot sizes. Hmm, yeah, that's one of the best things about old property. But small houses, like really like 1940, 1947, 1948, like bad design small house. They can always build a new house. Exactly. So what they're doing, they're buying the land, they got their lobby group, they surveyed it and they're dividing it. And then building these gigantic townhouses that just go vertically up. Yep, yep. Another thing you can do is make a flag lot. A lot of times people don't realize it. And I'll show you a piece of paper here. But you know, you get a property like that, like a big one like you're talking about. This is shown. Oh no, you can't see it. No, that's a green screen, yeah. Yeah, I guess you can't see it. That's white. But anyways, basically just imagine a square lot, right? And within that square, like a flag, a pole and then the flag. That's what it is. It's a driveway along the lot. So you're basically drawing a flag over the top of your, you know, your plat. And that's an access. And you create another lot in the back. When the lot's big enough, you can get away with that sort of thing. And so a lot like that, in your area, we're a million dollar home. You know, you're gonna get a million dollars for the home, whether it has a big yard or not, to be quite honest. So you make the flag lot and they got a lot that's worth 400 grand. So potentially you could get a good deal, buy it for 600,000 or 500,000, subdivide it, do a simple lot line subdivision for maybe 20 grand. I mean, it's still not that expensive to do. That's even expensive compared to what it used to be. And now you just took $400,000. And now you got a house worth a million dollars for 200 grand, you know, part of this because you've got a great deal. And then the other thing is you did a smart thing. You bought it for the land. The land that you're buying right now, are you developing on it or are you just holding it? I've done both. I have, you know, I bought a really nice property. I bought 50, I got 52 acres and I paid 205,000 for that. I just sold it for 2.8 million, okay? Yeah. When did you buy it though? No, I did. I bought it back in 1995. Gotcha. Yeah. I sold it. I sold it. It's been more than five. It's been about five years ago, I guess. It's been about five years ago that I sold it. But the thing is it was worth a million dollars the day that I bought it, to be quite honest. I should have sold it then. You follow me? But there's a reason I held it. The reason I was holding it, here's the deal. It was worth, it was probably worth a million, little more than a million dollars when I bought it when I got it for 200,000. I said, okay, well, this is awesome. But I'd already have two kids at that point and I planned on having more. And I thought, hey, you know what? And I'm a builder, I'm a builder. And I thought, you know what? And I bought it because it also had a 24 inch sewer main. That's the only thing you gotta pay attention to is utilities. And it said it has 24 inch sewer main running through it. Well, I held on to it all those years because I thought, you know what? I'm gonna teach my kids how to build. Because I think contracting is a great way to make money. It's a good, you know, it just gets your hand. It's close to real estate. It's good to understand how a building's built. It gives you a better idea of when you go to buy property. You know what you're looking for. And you know how to know good trades and that sort of thing. So I held it mostly because I considered it a project to do with my kids at a later date. But it became so valuable. It's like, ah, you know, I should have sold it earlier. I could have done more with that million dollars, you know, 15, 20 years ago than I could today, obviously. But the money still turned out. And that 2.8 million dollars, I immediately got two good deals on two other buildings that are worth more than $5 million now. So I made money on the money right away. So no regrets selling it. Do you do any like serving, like you go to like City Hall and look at like developments, were they expanding to see kind of like the low hanging food opportunity? Well, I do, but I wouldn't say that's necessarily what somebody new wants to do. You know, I, I mean, there's a lot of, I mean, just concentrate on your immediate neighborhood. Sure, I do. I'm looking at buying 30 acres right now somewhere. And what I want to know is, where's the, where's the city line as opposed to being County property? Cause it's easier to build outside the city. Other things to consider are, is it, is the sewer going to get out there? Are you going to, is it, you know, if there's sewer, sewer's goal, because, you know, putting in septic systems is pain in the ass. In fact, it's harder than ever. It used to be easy. Fucking expensive too. Yeah, it didn't used to be so expensive. We have somebody to bullshit. You get this, where we are, there's not bylaws because they have different types of septics. Like you have like a five year, 10 year, 20 year, they make bylaws where they force you to pay that every single year it gets pulled out. It's extortion. No, it is, it is. It's, it's, yeah, it's, it's ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, it's ridiculous. There's, I had a, I bought probably, I don't know, 40, 50 lots in California. And, and I would go in and I'd buy up the other thing. And you get into a subdivision where there's, you know, broken up, you know, houses here and a lot. You go in and you get, get the low hanging fruit as you put it. Go in there and, you know, make a lot of offers and try to get everything under market. And then as soon as you get it, and that's what I did. I tied up about 30, 40 lots. Then I put everything up. I bought everything for about 10 to 15,000. And then everybody, people that were smart were holding out for 30,000 on these lots. And then I put everything I had up for sale for 40. Okay. And I didn't sell any of mine, but everybody else sold theirs for 30. And when they sold theirs for 30, I became, all my stuff became worth 30. You follow me? I raised the value as I'm playing Monopoly. And then I just sold everything else that I had for over 30 or, you know, 25 to 30, $40,000 per lot. And that was, that was a nice run too. That was still, that was in my 20s. So I want to circle back to the owner financing because this is not too many people talk about this. And I just want to kind of cement this and clarify. So somebody working today at a job, whatever job they have, you know, what you're recommending is if you know your area, obviously people know where they live in their neighborhood, look, you know, put in the hat of a real estate owner or property owner, survey your area, look what's on the market, look for land, look for houses. And when you approach, well, actually the question I wanted to get into is when you approach the owners of the house, a lot of people have real estate agents who represent them. What's your, what's your advice when it comes, do you try to bypass a real estate agent? Do you work with them when it comes to owner finance? How do you, what's that relationship? Because sometimes it gets dicey and tricky. Yeah, I mean, look, I get agents that want me to, hell, they want me to work with them exclusively. And the answer, hell no. Hell no, exactly. Yeah, it's not just no, it's hell no. And I tell them, I go, look, I'm very loyal guy. I mean, and I'm giving another agent a listing this morning. This is how I operate. You bring me a deal, I'll buy it from you. They're afraid, oh, you're gonna go around me. Well, hey, okay, then fine, if that's what you think, I've never done that. I don't go around anybody. But so what I tell them is you show me a pocket listing. You show me something in your back pocket that's not on. They're begging the seller to, you know, they're begging for the listing, but they're not getting it, okay? So you tell them, and I tell those, because I know that that's what goes on. And so I say, look, show me what you got. And then I go look at it, you know, they trust me. I go look at it, I go, look, I'll pay a million dollars, I'll pay 500,000, I'll pay 200,000, whatever it is, I'll pay this much. Now they can go to the owner and go, look, I listed and if I can't sell it in five days for 200,000 or 500,000, then just give me a five-day listing. They go, oh, okay. And then, boom, it's sold, I took it. You know what I mean? So sometimes you can help an agent in that respect. The other thing is, let's say I'm trying to, you know, I got somebody, I'm trying to buy their property, but we're just can't come to terms. They won't sell it as cheap as I want them to, okay? So now what I do is I go tell the agent, I say, hey, see that guy over there? He wants to sell his property. You can go get a listing. So the agent goes over there and tells him, oh yeah, we can get you that. And you know, tells him what he wants to hear or whatever, and he gets the listing. Now I'm not gonna buy that property, but I've already exhausted, you know, myself trying to buy it at a decent price. So now it can go on the market and somebody can pay more for it. But it's my way of, you know, being nice to a realtor. Now that realtor in exchange will call me first because, you know, it's just taking care of each other. Okay, follow-up question. Times always change, but the idea is the same. You buy real estate because it's appreciating value in a nutshell, right? Well, that's, I don't buy that way, but yeah. Well, let me put context. I would say condos aren't in that context. I would say land. Well, yes and no. I mean, look, land is more valuable when things are rocking. But guess what? When things fall like we might have right now, things go to hell. Pretty soon you've got a piece of land. The land is free because you're buying it for the cost of the structure. You follow me? You can get a house and you're going, gee, it costs me, you know, I get this house for 200 grand, cost me 300 grand just to build the house. So guess what? You got the lot for free, right? Because you couldn't build that house for that amount. So it's not always that simple. So the main thing is buying under market. And I wanna, I don't feel like I answered your last question very well. The things that you're gonna be concerned with is, you know, try to specialize in something first. Don't try to look at everything because you don't know enough. You just don't know enough. You know, it's difficult. You know, even I don't know everything. I'm pretty good. I can cover a lot of stuff. I've been doing it a very long time and I bought a lot of different things and I have a lot of different prices. I have an idea what things are worth. But I would say concentrate. If you wanna start out and you wanna make some money. Number one, there may not be a lot of vacant landery but look at your immediate neighborhood, okay? Look at what's available in that neighborhood when you see a place that looks ratty and you know, blinds are tore up. Go find out who owns it. We'll knock on that door. You might talk to a tenant and say, well, I need to talk to the owner, you know? And, you know, think of whatever reason excuse you need why, you gotta hold the owners and say, look, I wanna buy this property. You might make a deal. And now they may not be able to own or finance but that's okay. If you get a deal to buy it and it's under market then you just gotta go find somebody like me or John Brooks, like I did, you know, 30, 40 years ago and you find somebody with money and then you convince them, look at what a great deal. And I get a lot of guys that say, well, I don't wanna, you know, how much is a hard money lender? You know, they went 12% or they went 15%. I go, listen, if you're getting a good deal that's peanuts. I said, what do you want? Would you rather have somebody charge you 50% of your deal, okay? And that's the test. Do I, if I get a deal, I'm gonna make 100 grand on. Of course I'll pay 12% on the money, you know? Otherwise I gotta find some with the money and split the 100 grand. So these are things to think about. I have a friend of mine that's all he does in commercial. He'll find strip malls, put a small deposit, a consignment, 90 days, he doesn't have to pay it and 90 days he finds somebody else to take it off of him. But obviously for an increase arbitrage price. Sure. No, no, I mean, that's what I tell everybody. There really is no bad real estate. There's just bad deals. You can make a bad deal on anything. You know, I was in Compton like 40 years ago. I mean, looking at property from a tax sale. No, that's probably like 35 years ago. And it was like, I mean, it was nasty. I mean, we started to get out and then, you know what? Then we have a pistol out from under the seat and we walked the house with a pistol in the back pocket and I'm like, you know, you couldn't give me the property. I wouldn't pay five grand for it. I mean, there's needles on the floor. This is scary. Well, it's a tax sale. The lady next door bought it for 75,000. So it has value. It's not your kind of property, you know? And, you know, you go into a junkyard, you go to junkyard and you go, God, it's just nothing but junk and crap. It's the most valuable property in the world. Can't do it anymore. Yeah. So you just got to think, you know, like I say, the possibilities are endless. Well, has anything changed right now in our current economic situation? Well, I don't even know. I mean, there's certainly a change. I just don't know what it is right now. You know, this coronavirus thing, you know, it's a very different. A lot of times we have good times and we over build and then everything crashes. Yep. It turns into a bubble. Well, we hadn't made the bubble yet. And, you know, I'm real happy with the government that we got right now and how it's being run. Not happy with everybody, but I'm happy with the president and I'm happy with what's going on here. And... I'm interested in real estate. Like I think, obviously, apartments, people need to rent, but I'm interested in what happens with commercial places like malls and movie theaters now and all the places people congregate to. Yeah, I don't think they're threatened. I think they're okay. Well, I mean, they're threatened for other reasons. Let me put it that way. You know, one of the things, I own a lot of jiu-jitsu. I've got a couple of jiu-jitsu gyms and dance places, schools, you know, various schools of different kinds. And I said, I like these. I like these services because Amazon can't hurt them. Yeah, that's smart. But COVID wiped them out, you know what I mean? Because it's one of those things and it just didn't see it coming. But I was like, I didn't want the mom and pop shops that are threatened by Amazon. And so it sucks. But where there is, so I'm certainly leaning towards medical buildings to be quite honest, even though some of the medical people are hurting. My doctor actually called me the other day and I said, oh, hey, what are you calling a doctor? Nothing's wrong. And he's, no, I just want to tell you how much I enjoy your videos. That's awesome. I've been focusing on farmland, specifically like urban farming, especially in Ontario. I'm from the last 10 years. Each year it's grown 8% returns. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's farmland is ridiculous, especially for the supply chain too. More and more people be focusing on like, how do we get more food locally? And what's cool about it too is it's a high yield producing type of business, especially if you're doing urban farming, like every quarter of a lot, you can pull roughly about a quarter of a million dollars give or take per year yield. Oh yeah. I can tell you right now, you know, sometimes they'll have like a drow or floods on one side of the country, you know, the USA. And a buddy of mine, the Southern Lancaster, California, outside LA, in LA County, still lives on the desert. His neighbor planted 80 acres of onions. He made 400 grand that year on just that one deal. I got one vegetable. They're easy. They're easy. They're easy, I know. They're too great. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, there's a lot of, you know, there's so many different ways to make money. And that's why on the real estate particularly, don't judge, don't judge anything what you like. Just be a numbers guy. Somebody else wants it. You know, yeah, I wouldn't live in this dump, but I'll pay 50 grand for it and I'll sell it for a hundred, no problem. And the idea that you want it in fixer uppers, be really careful. I would just tell anybody, you know, if you're in Michigan or Detroit in different areas in general, they're like that. They're just devastated, you know, they're broke, they're poor. There's houses for 30 grand. You can't put any money in a $30,000 home. I mean, you can get a good deal on a $30,000 home. It better be almost free if it needs a kid. You know what I mean? Because you put a kitchen in it and you just spent 20 grand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So fixer uppers are over, I think they're just, I mean, Ben Maul has done real well with, you know, on a big basis and he did, I understand what he did when he was younger. He, you know, and I did a lot of that stuff too. You know, your place card, you doll it up as you can. But in general, it just depends. There's got to be, there's got to be some meat on the bone. You got to figure out, what's this going to cost? And be honest with you, there's all the downtime of that police sitting empty. You know, I fixer up right here. I got a really good deal. I bought a house for like, okay, what did I pay for? Yeah, I know. Oh yeah, yeah. That's in my book. I bought a house for $34,000 and all I needed was paint. Just need paint, painted it up, cleaned it up. And the next day I come back after we just finished painting, I pull up and I thought, oh, the windows look like they're steamed up. Like what's going on? And I go in there, some kids broke into the house and they took a five gallon bucket of paint and they dipped a broom in it and they painted the windows with my, and these are little kids. They were laughing and having a good time. But they sloshed them and had wood floors. I paint on the wood, sit on the walls where I just textured the texture. So, I mean, I just bought that damn thing. And all of a sudden, I had to fix everything they screwed up. And the parents didn't have any money. It was kind of a dump neighborhood. And these kids, their parents, they didn't have any money. They couldn't afford to fix it either. So I'd eat it, but it happens. That's part of business. Yeah. Tom, I'm gonna thank you for sharing your insights. I know you have a book you mentioned earlier. Where can people get it? I can get it on Kindle, Kindle, or you know, you get it in paperback on Amazon. If you go to the Kindle, the Kindle's probably the best way to go because number one, I mean, both are good. I have people that are buying both just cause some people like a hard copy to keep with them. It's a fun read, it's a good read. It's getting really good reviews and it's selling very well. But the best part about getting the Kindle version is that I have my YouTube channel, Flip Anything. And in Flip Anything, so every time I'm talking about something relevant to that chapter, I have links to relevant videos. So you'll say, oh, that's it. I wish I knew a little bit more. And well, here's a link and you go to that and you'll hear me, you know, may not even be talking about the exact same property, but it'll be relevant to that chapter, which is better. Of course, yeah. So, but yeah, I think that's main thing. Yeah, the book is really, that's just, I mean, it's how I made my first million and it's how I've made many million cents. And it, like I say, I tell people, oh, is it hard? Well, I mean, it's hard, it's work, it's work. You gotta diligently look for deals, diligently look for deals. Oh no, work. Yeah, yeah, I know how scary. Yeah, I've always worked so hard, it doesn't matter. But I tell them, yeah, well, it's a lot easier than working your whole life, because at some point, and you know, I mean, I could have retired way a long time ago, but what I do is fun. I enjoy it. It's competitive. Yeah, that's what matters the most, yeah. If you go first, and you know, I don't need anybody to pound me on the back and then the money's the reward. So, there's a way to measure it, you know? Tom, thank you man. I appreciate it so much. Guys, go get Tom's book. It'll be in the show notes as well. If you're listening or watching this, please leave a review, and I'll see you guys soon. Take care. Thanks, thanks for having me.