 Welcome to Start Up The Storefront, presented by Aurobora. All right, welcome to the podcast on today's show. We're talking to Eric. Eric is back. He's got a new book. The first time he was here was the Almanac of Naval Ravicant. One of my favorite books. I got a tattoo of an image from that book and hopefully maybe this is my second tattoo on your second book. So what made you want to do this one? Man, I was so blown away by the response to the Almanac of Naval. It like surpassed my wildest expectations. And so I had a short list of people that I was also interested in to the same degree and biology was on that list and people were kind of proposing that I do it. And actually, biology DM me as a response to one of those random tweets that somebody sent was like, do biology next. And he's like, he's like, I'd love for it. If you're up for it, I was like, all right, man, let's go. Let's go. Wow. And it was at the same type of structure where it's like you and give people a window and tell you how you did Naval's also. And then obviously the tweet download. Was it similar? Yeah, I got a little, I think I'm better at it this time around. So I honestly like the editing process was a little easier, but man, I just start with a mountain of content. Like I've built a giant spreadsheet of like everything I can possibly find of biology's appearances and material and books and blog posts and everything. Get the Twitter, get the full Twitter export and just start like pulling out pieces and organizing and making buckets and it would probably look like boring work. Like if you watched me do it, but I feel like I'm just learning so much in the process and like having a ball. It's like, it's just like doing a giant jigsaw puzzle. And what did the publisher say? And so how, you know, from the first time you did this to the second time, what are the things that you tweak maybe or what are the things that you saw that work and we're like, we got to double down on this and continue like almost like a series, which it feels like it's becoming a series. Yeah. I mean, the first book, I was so uncertain because it felt like a new medium, right? Like I hadn't, I'd seen compilations before, but I wasn't sure. I just didn't know what the final form looked like. And then when I saw the, I was really, I was proud of the work, like the Almanac and Neval feels like a really solid book to me. And then when I saw the response to it, I was like, oh, damn, like this is people respond. It's not just me. Like people respond to this. They think this is cool too. And so I knew at least what the final form felt like and what it felt like to do the work, you know, like the first time it was just a lot of uncertainty. There was a lot of second guessing. The second book, it was a little, I was just a little more confident, I think. And so in that, I could see around a little, a few more corners, I guess, than I did the first time around. But it was a whole new person. It was a whole new adventure. It was a whole new set of ideas. So from that perspective, it kind of, it felt fresh to think about new stuff and try to like organize new thoughts. And for people who don't know him, give people a window into who he is because depending on where you are in the world, you can know him for several things, all the things or none of the things. And so he can be a new individual to some people too. For sure. Yeah. I mean, he's, he's also somebody who's like very widely followed in Silicon Valley in particular, I would say, definitely in crypto. He, so his background like grew up in New York, went to school at Stanford, got a bunch of degrees at Stanford and then became a founder of this clinical genomics company that he had a PhD in, I think, computational biology or something like some overlap of like chemistry and computer science and biology. And so he started this like very technical bio company. They sold that for a bunch of money. He was a partner at a 16 Z for a while. He started a few crypto companies. One got acquired. He became the CTO of Coinbase. So he's had like a really wide sort of ranging career and he has now written the network state and he's basically like full-time investor and content creator in this thesis of like starting new countries and sort of figuring out how to like create a new frontier outside the establishment, which is like a very fascinating thing. But the foundation of all of it, which is really what this book focuses on is his fundamentals, which are like the fundamental importance of technology and like the value that it plays in our lives and how critical it is and how grateful we should be for it and how we can support it and lean into it and how difficult it is to sort of determine what is true and the different types of truth and how we sort of navigate that world. And then the last part is really like his handbook to building, which is, it feels a little like zero to one for people who love that book. I don't know if you've read that, but it's like he was a very tactical kind of practical set of ways to go build something. You know, whether whether that's a nonprofit or a business or a media company or a social like even a social group, right? An organization like that's what this ended up becoming to sort of me searching for what was his most foundational, most evergreen, most universally applicable ideas that I wanted to share with the world. And then I thought people would be able to use on their own. As I was reading the book, I wanted to I wanted to get into your head around because you spent so much time with both of these books and so both of these suites both so much, basically two entirely different data sets. I think Naval does a really good job of distilling hard ideas into simple words. I think when it comes to your new book, it feels much more practical. So it's not like this complicated out, you know, let's call it a math equation that hasn't has become all of a sudden arithmetic. It's more of like, I get it and I'm going to go do something with that. Right. It feels more like actionable. I don't know if that was sort of how you went about. I guess what you spent so much time with it. So what were your two takeaways and sort of how Naval's tweets go versus how the new book and how his tweets go. Yeah, it grew out of it really well. I think like the novel book is very philosophical, like almost spiritual. It's it's very high level. It kind of tells you how to think well, but there's not it takes a real leap for somebody to read that book. Put it down and go build, right? Like it's very high level and for people who have the framework already, they can probably put it down and go build, but I got a lot of questions and follow ups and a lot of the chatter that I saw around that book was kind of like, okay, how like, how do I find my specific knowledge? How do I decide what to work on? How do I pick what's a good opportunity or what's not? How do I decide what's important? Like this book answers a lot of the kind of questions, a lot of that gap, right? And so I think it's a really if you read them back to back or a year apart or something like that, I think it's a really helpful way to sort of turn this like new philosophical knowledge into tactics and like a list of execution and the ways to sort of put the tactics into the strategy and execute on them. You know, I haven't been in tech for a little while. I do real estate development now, but it really made me miss tech. Like it made me miss being part of that ecosystem and made me miss being part of sort of around those people who see the world forming not so much in the physical space, but how the digital space is changing everything via like crypto via social media and how you can maneuver these things to work in your favor and and how they you get a world into how they impact and control humanity also, right? And so it made me like obsessed again with tech and I was like, Oh, God, am I really going to go do this thing again? What are the practical things that you took away from it? Like how did it change your life in a real way? Like did you start an easy one? Did you start maybe investing in Bitcoin or double down on Bitcoin, right? He's got big expectations for Bitcoin. I think he says by twenty four to be some crazy number. But what things did you do personally in your life that, you know, stemmed from the book? It definitely pushed me much more similar to you. It sounds like pushed me much more in the direction of technology. And that is like I would say I've been in tech most of my career, but also like I've been in software and marketplaces and stuff like that. And it really changed my definition of tech. So my I run a small sort of early stage venture fund and we went from, hey, like we invest in startups to a really much more aggressive filter on like I want to see really high tech, like I want technical risk over market risk or execution risk like every day of the week. Like I want to, you know, it pushed me in the direction of investing in nuclear fission microreactor startup or emerging battery tech or there's a bunch of other things that we're looking at like that are much more cutting edge like a aerial drone construction company is like just on the edge of possible. But if it works, it'll change absolutely everything. Right. And I think tech as an industry just got a little muddled. Like we talk about tech and we think about 20 30 year old companies that are basically building software. We're not thinking about really cutting edge stuff that's coming out of papers. That's a brand new discovery that is like pushing the balance of physics. Like that's really what technology is and it should be changing what's literally physically possible. Another example is like one we just invested in Adam limbs. They're building like a mind controlled robotic prosthetic arms truly like capabilities that humanity has never had before at a cost that's one tenth of what the current state of the art is which is terrible. So like that is wild shit and like that's what technology should aspire to. I hope more people who read this book aspire to do that kind of stuff. But even if you, you know, stay in an industry like real state development, every industry has technology and just a question of like the winners are going to be the people who figure out how to get the most leverage out of their organization do the most with the least and that naturally pushes you towards using more technology and finding out or finding out what 10 year old technology is actually applicable in your industry that nobody else is bothered to use yet like that's where the edges come from and that's really that's a huge shift in my thinking. So the construction example you gave was amazing. I think because in the book even he mentions like how everyone's going to have like almost its personal robotic drone, right? And it's just so absurd to even think about that where it's like you can just travel to different places via your generally you just hop in and and if you break them, it's okay. You can like buy another one or you have several because the cost is so low. And so to think about tech in that way, it's just so fascinating. And when I think about construction because I'm you know, I'm kind of close to it. I'm like, there's no way that could happen. But it's still like illuminating in the sense of like or could it right? Could it actually happen? And in what capacity? It's amazing. I mean, it really really and so the drone construction company tell me more about that. Yeah, this is the thing about apology, right? Is this why I loved living in his head for a little while is because at first blush he's he's crazy. Like you're just kind of like no way. And then the more you think about it, the longer the seed sits with you, the more you're kind of like, well, damn, actually like in 30 years, like technology has grown a lot in 30 years and like 30 years isn't that far away. Like where's my career going to be in 30 years? What can I start planning for now? So just getting practice thinking in longer terms is so awesome. The drone construction company is it's called Terran Robotics Terran like Earth and they build these giant I call them sex copters because they're six rotors, but they're like 10 feet across big aerial drones and they fly and they've got like changeable tools on the bottom of them and they'll basically build any Adobe structure autonomously. Like it's early days. This is not like a perfectly polished fleet yet, but the final form of this company is like design a building in CAD down to the windows, benches, fireplace, anything that is Adobe and like a set of drones will operate autonomously or with minimal supervision to build this structure on its own and that turns what is currently like four trades in especially in residential construction, which is like framing, insulating, drywall paint into like this is one almost entirely low marginal cost like high capex trade that you can you can get done all at once. So I think there's going to be a ton of applications for stuff like that and I don't know their vision is just huge. It also captures more carbon. It's it's a cheap material. It's thermal regulating. So it reduces like the cost of the operating the building. I just need to really like bold awesome vision and the guys are brilliant and I'm excited to see what happens with that. Yeah, the drone component so interesting. We had somebody on the podcast they do a zoo or it's called a zoo or 3D printing homes and basically they created a technology where it's like a resin that they just but they have this like big machine arm in like a warehouse and the thing creates these one to two bedroom units, you know, for maybe like $50,000 and it's pretty amazing and they can like pump them out pretty quickly. It's interesting. It's just interesting to see some of these things and again like so when people think tech I think they think software to your point, right? And so yeah, you're totally spot on about that where it's like this is technology. It just looks different feels different. Everything is technology, man. That's a good like it's a good biology line is like there is no technology industry. That's like saying there's a physics industry like physics applies to every industry just like technology applies to every industry. It's just a question of how well each individual company inside uses it. You know, technology is a frontier not a stagnant static like group of companies that are or are not technology, right? It's kind of an insane piece of nomenclature that we've just like gotten used to. So how do you go about getting this book out? So from the first on that you learned how do you go about getting this book out to the open? It's released. I think on the 24th that comes out October 24th. Yeah, October 24th. All right. So what's what's on your agenda this time? I mean, the way that I publish books is a little unique and ties into another story. So I use scribe media which is a professional publishing company. So I basically bring them the manuscript which is like I finished writing in Google Docs and I say I've got a book in a Google Doc and they say awesome. Like we'll take it from here and they do all of the copy, editing, proofreading, page layouts, cover design, all of the publishing like getting the ISBN and all the distribution set up to get like this really polished professional book out into the world and unlike a sort of a traditional publisher where you have to give up you know, you take an advance and give up your royalties or most of your royalties. I basically pay them a flat rate and they do all that work and I retain a hundred percent of my copyright and all the sort of creative control. That's great. So as somebody who kind of like wants to bet on myself like this is like the ideal form of publishing for me. I'm a huge fan of them and have been for a long time. So this is this is definitely like my path and I think it makes sense for a ton of creators like more and more people now already have the audience and have like de-risked their content. So if you want to like I did recently become CEO of that company. So I'm talking about they but I'm also a part of it now. So we can talk about that if you want but no it's also a little off the path for for the book talk. I do like the model. I love the betting on yourself thing. That's interesting too. I mean that's how I think entrepreneurs were just wired that way which forces you to do stuff like this podcast and speak to the community at large. If you do think of a book like a business with traditional publishing you're basically selling 85% of the equity of your business before you even start it in exchange for you know whatever that advances. It's a fascinating thing. Most people you know I don't think most authors like think of their book as an asset or as a like as an equity based business. There's like a funny Reese Witherspoon video where it's like someone explains her podcast to people where she basically tells authors to come on the podcast in exchange for them coming on the podcast she gets the book rights for a certain number of years and then she can sell that or publish that and or create a TV show movie and basically her podcast is a form of like do people like this and it's really smart. It's intelligent for Reese but I yeah, I don't think most people most people are just so happy to probably meet her that they'll sign anything because they think that gives them some sort of credibility when a reality it's just that the asset they've they've miscalculated the asset or maybe like I mean she's a like king or queenmaker in the market like if Reese Witherspoon can take your book from 10,000 copies to a million copies sold like maybe that's worth it like that's that's every individual's decision but yeah definitely know what you're signing and you know do the homework to see the options yeah how many books did the last one sell of the the the vault rabbit can't how many copies a lot more than I thought I would yeah a lot yeah I think we're I think my napkin math it's hard to know for sure I think we're over a million copies wow and is like audible or Amazon the most thing or is like the paperback version Amazon is the most combination of like well the combination of eBook in paperback I'm surprised at how probably 20 20 25% of sales which is like a much bigger number than I think people would expect or would certainly would have expected five years ago like audio is growing like crazy it's funny if I really enjoy a book I'll do both but the first one is sort of like yeah it's interesting where it's like the first one is more of like it's like an app or teeth where if it's light listening I like it and then if I want to take notes on it I have to buy the book so I can physically take notes in the book and be like okay this is this is the I want to submit this idea or play with this idea yeah I kind of go back and forth both ways right it's like if I read a book and I love it and I want just like cheap reps of it to kind of remind me like keep the ideas fresh like I'll go listen to it over and over again and vice versa I listen to a book that's like oh damn this is like more nutritious than I thought like I want to be able to reference it I want to pull highlights I want to like want to be able to search it I'll go by the other formats like keep it on the shelf and have a Kindle version so I can command F it and I mean that's the difference between 15 bucks and 50 bucks and to really like own a book and have it in all the formats you want like obviously I'm biased as an author like I love that I love people who buy all the versions but like I've done it for a ton of books and I think it's it's still a no-brainer it's still super useful we had Matt Higgins on the podcast who wrote Burn the Boats I don't know if you've read that book great book one of the things that Matt did strategically when he was selling right yeah, when he just started came out coming out with the book it was like he gave people an option to you could buy 50 copies of it let's say and you can get like an hour zoom with him or if you buy like 25 copies you get 15 minutes with him and if you I don't buy like 2,000 you get sometime with him and Gary V it turns out he's the majority investor I guess in the Vaynerchuk business and so obviously having having a voice like Gary so he announced the book on Gary's podcast and he's a lot bigger of a figure and way more involved in the technology than I thought from an investor perspective and so he has all these relationships that nobody really knows about but it was really intelligent to me the way he did that and so many people you know now he's just like touring the world he was just with Kim Kardashian on the book tour he's exhausted but it's worked like it's like it's really that's the dream right Kim Kardashian on your book tour that's the thing I think once you're like once you're there I mean everyone's buying the book at that point people who can't read people who can't read it doesn't matter that's the crazy part you know they met at Harvard he's also a Harvard business school professor and so she came and gave a speech to the class but it was just interesting the way you know to see him maneuver in that way just from a a releasing perspective especially and so when I think about you here you are you have a fund right and so it's almost like people will want to hear from you people do want to pick your brain probably on things and there's a lot of interesting networking like for me personally we'll buy a lot of copies of it and we'll give it to our guests as like a as like a thank you as like a hey look you know we're all entrepreneurs we're in this game together here's here's a little digestible bit that did something for me and so this is my way of sort of thanking you to be on the podcast but in turn also thanking Matt Higgins who was on the podcast or Eric who was on the podcast and so then it just lives on which is great and then they share it and it's just it's like a thank you basically and give people 30 minutes of their time and it worked it was wild yeah I remember I think Tim Ferriss did that for one of his earlier book launches I can't remember which one but yeah there were like tears it was kind of like you know buy three and get a hat you know buy ten and get this I remember James Clear being when he did Atomic Habits saying I can't remember exactly what the tears were but he was like yeah for you know five hundred books or something like I'll come give a talk and he's like I respect people but I will not be doing that again I had to like fly to Malaysia and like give some talks in very foreign countries and that math did not math but good for you guys we're getting a good deal that's gotta be awful too that's the thing too when he's when he put it out there I was like oh man so many people are gonna buy 50 bucks and just annoy him or bother him or it be a very useless exercise yeah you want to do the math right I guess I don't have anything like that set up yet but it's something to consider maybe the next book you're on your way for sure how many of these do you do you want to put out do you hope to put out I got another one in the works but it's not gonna be like I don't want to do 20 of these probably and does it end with you does it end with like you're the capstone no no no no no actually the one I've got in the works is Elon oh wow and same thing same same model the tweets yeah same format same sort of feel like I think it's a really I just think he's such a fascinating guy and he's he's a really again kind of to the question of like how does the anthology of biology like follow from the Almanac of Naval I think Elon is like even more sort of insanely ruthlessly tactical like that's kind of where I focused on in that is like literally how does he do what he does and so that's still in the works but I think you know the questions lingering maybe from the outcome of the anthology of biology which is will be like man I get the tech is important and you give me some ideas but like help me help me more I started my company but I don't know how to like I'm not quite recruiting I'm not quite managing I don't have the like so the Elon book is a little more little more hardcore play like what's the hardcore playbook like how does he land he does alright so let's go back to the book give people a window into into like the things they can get out of it because it goes through so many dimensions it goes through social media we talk crypto we talk about the future we talk about this drone thing we were mentioning before and so yeah give people like a window into it alright so there's there's a as you say there's a lot in there because I tried to take you know ten years of all of the best ideas he's ever had and distill them and organize them until they this one well-threaded thing so basically there's three big parts part one is about technology part two is about truth and part three is about applying both of them to sort of build the future so the first section is really almost kind of novel philosophical level unlike the incredible importance of technology like it's almost a religious like please please understand and deeply appreciate that like everything that is good in our lives today is the result of generations of compounding improvements in technology like if not for this we would be very hungry very wet and many of us would probably be very dead I actually like just got back from a vacation to South Africa where I was on a on a safari and I was like sitting in the middle of the bush at night like watching lions eat a carcass thinking there is a very thin line of human cooperation and human knowledge that has built up over generations that is between like me sitting in this car watching this very safely and me being that fucking carcass like getting eaten by a wild animal I feel like we take it for granted man like we absolutely take it for granted and so that whole first part I think is a really helpful way to sort of just revisit the basics of like man can we appreciate what we have and think about the moral obligation that we have to continue to invest in technology continue to improve it like let's see the fact that we invented nuclear like fission energy you know more than 50 years ago and then just basically shat the bed on implementation for political reasons for decades for decades like we could have energy that is you know so cheap and that is such a critical input to so many other things like we could have we are owed a next industrial revolution and we have not been acting like it so that's an important foundational thing and that is really why he's doing everything that he's doing about the network state that's why he's talking about starting new countries that's why he's talking about sort of building technology that that continues to give people new opportunities and why he's focused on sort of meritocratic education and capital allocation and all these things I think that's the most important section my favorite is the third part but I'll get to that in a second the second is really about truth it starts with the different types of truth the scientific the political the economic truths the role that the new technology called blockchain can play in helping us determine the truth and how that carries forward and then there's sort of the interplay of like the media is not incentivized to create the truth you know they may run billboards that literally say like we are truth and that's not true you know like there's a good line in there like what is popular is untrue and what is untrue is popular and just learning to learning to see through bullshit and think for yourself and understand like what the fundamental truth is because without understanding that it's gonna be tough to build the right thing it's gonna be tough to build it in the right way to progress so if you're reacting to if you spend your whole life sort of interacting with that layer of bullshit on top of everything instead of being able to see through it and like reach into the source code of reality and do the real work and manipulate the real things I think that's gonna be tough and then you know the third part is really practical tactical very strategic very like line by line like here's how to go through researching an idea determining which is the best version of building first products launching hiring growing really building whatever it is that you're setting out to build like how and why and exactly what to do the truth part I think is so relevant today because of the war going on or the wars going on or the verge of World War 3 going on and it's like you could I was having this conversation yesterday a friend of mine is an Apple executive we were at dinner and it was like the amount of desensitization that has gone on because of Instagram is absurd you know and then I'm looking at a Palestinian baby that's barely surviving because of a hospital bombing and that's like absurd it's an absurd thing for humanity I think it's just and then I scroll up and it's an ice cream cone and it's like this doesn't that shouldn't exist it doesn't feel like that those things should exist in the same three seconds we are not built to process all of the world's tragedies being delivered to us like hundreds of times a day we are running last thing before we go to sleep like that is a recipe for misery and it's not that those problems aren't real and don't need to be addressed and solved but like man there's so many people who are so incentivized to just get an emotional reaction as quickly as possible or to intentionally hide the truth from you and get you to believe their agenda instead of the real thing like there's a few stories in there like there's a chapter called and this is an old example but there's literally like a whole article from the New York Times saying like it's a literal physical impossibility that rockets will ever fly they should pull this guy's funding we should stop the research and like a few years later like Apollo and then they issue a retraction right and there's a book actually that biology recommends reading called The Grey Lady Winked it's by Ashley Rinsberg and I had it on my podcast and it's about ten times in history that the New York Times specifically not just other media but New York Times specifically like caused or inflamed global conflicts including reporting on like that Poland invaded Germany as Germany was invading Poland during World War II just insane that you're like no way like no fucking way and he's done all the research he's got all the stuff like it's just it is hard work to like question everything it's fucking exhausting but it's gotta be done on a couple boards I'm on we've been getting emails like we should make a statement we should release a statement like a pro-Israel statement and then we're also getting emails from some people who are Palestinian saying like thank you for not saying anything and so it's just like you're getting these emails and it's crazy you know and it's like I don't think this is our position to send anything out because at the end of the day I think people should know like we're pretty much pro-terrorism I don't think I need to say that I don't think anybody needs to say that but once it comes becomes like choosing sides yeah sorry anti-terrorism yeah exactly right we're anti-terrorism no I said that right but it's an absurd thing you know in today's world you have to clarify that you're not a asshole like it's like what is happening here you know it's interesting if you again go back to the incentives like nobody who's in the conflict wants to see anybody on the sidelines and so everyone is incentivized to pull everybody in and there's another great biology quote from the book if it enrages and engages you are constantly being like poked and prodded and tweaked and pushed to be angry because that's how platforms that's how people get the desired response out of you which is to amplify them or engage with them or spend more time on the platform and it doesn't serve you it does not serve you like 99 times out of 100 so just and not only does it not serve you but it probably doesn't serve the kind of future that you want to live in and so that's another I guess another way that I've sort of changed as a result of writing this book and living with these ideas is just it's changed my filter for how I spend my time and the problems that I want to work on and what I think is important you know Brian Johnson's an amazing like he's also a crazy outlier on this but he's literally thinking about like what is going to matter about this century when we look back from you know the year 2500 and like that's closer to how biology thinks it's closer to how Elon thinks these people just see a long arc of history that don't get caught up in the scuffles of what's happening week to week or year to year there's a couple of my favorite quotes in the book so the one is like you are what you read that's a that's a banger so simple the other one is I think your email inbox is that to-do list other people write for you something to that effect I've been saying this to my wife for a really long time where it's like even your calendar can be that even your calendar can be just really just a to-do list that people glorify as a function of making them feel productive it's hard to say no yeah it's hard to say no yeah and I don't think that's the even if you are productive like the act of doing something I don't think sometimes there's a low yield on those things and then my favorite one was do things as fast as you can or doing things as fast as you can often means doing them one at a time and that at least hold so true in real estate development it's so unbelievably true and I bet it's hard because there's so many times in development where you're where you're just in a waiting period and you're like it feels wrong to do nothing start something else it becomes a distraction yeah no I think that's the whole game where it's like you it really focuses for it it forces you to focus on one step at a time and like one foot in front of the other but one foot in front of the other could be three months and so it's a good thing and a bad thing you learn how to leverage it right and so it's like if my whole project is going to cost me nine million dollars to do I don't need nine million dollars on day zero I don't need a day 100 and so therefore it's like well how much do you really need and you could basically say I need 200 grand a month for a little while and then at some point I'll need a bigger amount but it it's sort of you just dissect it and then it becomes a super solvable problem you're like oh that's that's not as that's not a nine million dollar problem I'll just say that's my personally there's always a fascination for me to figure out how does how does the physical space change like in real estate development and I think there's a couple of them to mine for me within the book one is like today if you're an investor in a real estate development project the process goes money comes into it let's call it a Chase Bank account you're an investor so you have a percent allocation I have to tell my accountants to send you a wire or I automate that and so we have like people that are involved in that and then at the end of the year you get a K1 a human being makes that K1 which is absurd to me and then you get you know you get your money in your bank account and I just think like blockchain can solve all of that in in seconds like you don't I don't need four humans to do this process right so I think like that's a real one the thing I always struggle with is like in today's world society is created in a way where it's like the way I induce FOMO is if you're at an event and you post it on Instagram and it looks like a really cool event it could be a six in real life like the event could just be like not fun but on Instagram it's like a 10 right and you and there's like this FOMO that's that sort of created and so it's almost like in real estate you have to create these moments so like a magic show is a good example of this or like burlesque or something like that that plays really well on Instagram in real life you could be bored you could be crowded you could be warm but on Instagram it plays into a 10 and and so it's almost like it's interesting to think about the future of that where a lot of restaurants today are going away because they haven't figured out a way how to adapt into creating this FOMO or like getting people to commit and so people commit in a way where it's like when you go to a wedding you dress up when you go to a sports game you might put on a jersey and so just the act of doing that is you committing to two three hours of expected fun that you'll probably put on Instagram and it's like change the way people interact with physical spaces that's why like the movies don't work and that's why Barbie did so well right where it's like all of a sudden you saw heaps of people wearing pink walking somewhere and they're like oh they're going to see and you already knew you didn't need to know that they're you didn't need to know anything you just knew they were going to go see Barbie and it's just interesting you know but it's like the act of committing and then Barbie was smart to obviously have a ton of marketing all around it but it's just interesting to see how technology changes the human experience in a physical and real time and a lot of people aren't seeing that in an obvious way yeah and it goes back to the discussion about truth I think and with Instagram in particular like about you know there's a quote from the ball like desires a contract to be unhappy until you get what you want like if desire is the source of unhappiness man Instagram is a desire manufacturing machine like if you were to engineer something to make someone miserable it is to create as many desires as possible in a shorter period of time and that's pretty much what the Instagram Discover page does right there's like here's all the most delicious food in the world as you can imagine here's the most beautiful people here's almost beautiful places and like you're not in any of them and then like you go to a you know Schmanzy bar in like New York or LA and you see the people who are taking those photos and they're like sitting in a booth by themselves there's like two of them there when there's like a 10 people in our booth like and having a good time and everybody has their phones away and then like those two people are like sitting there staring at their phone editing photos like take it they're having the least fun possible in that bar but you know that like when you see that later on Instagram it will still create a desire in you just like remembering to overlap those two experiences and be like and that's actually not like they're optimizing for the wrong thing that's true what are your favorite quotes let's wrap on this what are your favorite quotes of the book or your biggest takeaways I mean what I really hope people do and I think I said this in my intro is like I hope they put this book down and get to fucking work like I hope they change what they work on or how they work on it as a result of reading this book I hope people feel a little more empowered to understand reality a little more like more permission to question what they see more permission to think longer term permission to go build something like go put a dent in the universe and a little more confidence in what they have to do to get there I think you know there's a lot of business ideas in this book I think it'll generate like whatever industry you're coming from or whatever your career is like I think you'll I think you'll start to see new opportunities as a result of reading this and I think you'll sort of start to see the world a little bit differently and especially if it really like worms its way in your head over a year or two like I think you'll you know even if you stay right where you are I think you'll do your job differently I think you'll build your business differently I think it'll have great results for people Having picked it up and not put it down until I was done with it I'll tell you that it's certainly done that for me and and it's like continuing to do that and thank you for putting this work together I mean really really well done just like the last book and this is something I'm probably gonna pick up like in a few weeks and do it again and play with it digest it and then maybe even do an exercise where I play in different verticals and sort of put his framework and say okay let's use the real estate vertical is the most obvious one but you can choose different verticals and see how these principles would apply to this space in a really untethered way right so it's like the drones in construction is a good example where it's like that sounds so absurd or does it and so almost playing with like an absurdity in a practical way and just seeing what comes up from it because I think that's really really cool. Thank you there's nothing I love more than hearing that people read it in one sitting or that they are gonna reread it just seeing filthy dirty tattered dog-eared underlined copies of my books is just warms my heart and there's nothing I love more so thank you for reading it thank you for having me like I do think these are so so important and so useful for people and I wouldn't have written it and I wouldn't have published if I didn't really believe that and lastly just tell people where they can get it I assume Amazon but unless you want them to get it directly from you your website No, Amazon is great you can get it wherever you normally get books if you want to find me and my other projects that's all at eachorganson.com The anthology of vloggy thank you so much I appreciate it Eric Thank you Diego Thank you for tuning in If you enjoyed this episode share with your friends your family or anyone you might think might benefit from the conversation we've had today and if you haven't already please take a moment to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform we'd greatly appreciate it your feedback helps us improve and reach more people who can benefit from our discussions the best way to stay connected with us and get the latest updates on future episodes is through our social media channels you can find us at Startup and Storefront we'll be back next Tuesday with another great episode see you then