 when you develop a vertically integrated market like that, you kind of have people by the horn sort of. Yeah, I think planned obsolescence sometimes implies too much prioritization. I don't think companies really like make obsolescence their top thing. It's more like expected and tolerated obsolescence. We're not going to try to avoid it because it gives us a few. Well, yeah, exactly. I mean, it's less of like we're going to try to avoid it or we're going to try to mitigate. It's okay. If something new better comes along and it breaks everything, we'll take the hit on it and we're just going to move on to that. Also, don't forget, we're only in the second generation of consoles that support digital downloads as a thing at all. So 360 PlayStation 3 and to a lesser degree, the Wii were the first attempt in the console world at this. Well, no, I mean, the Xbox one or not the Xbox one, the original Xbox supported a limited version. Very limited though. That is confusing. You're right. When you said Xbox one, I thought you meant the original Xbox, but then that you're right. That is the name of the everyone was so upset when they called it Xbox one. Yeah. Yeah. I bet the Xbox original though was just about a service to let you play each other. It wasn't about game downloads or any that. There was no Xbox live arcade. There was no none of that. So there wasn't there wasn't a store, but there were certain games that actually had download. I think there's one that I remember. I mean, it was just it was basically a DLC is what it was. Yeah. If you're watching live or the video version of this and wondering how we got into this conversation, become a patron and you can get the full audio that started this conversation. Next, the audio. I, you know, it's a shame. I really, I really use my Xbox one mostly to watch Hulu YouTube, like TV. Yeah. And then I play, I'm not Skyrim, I play Dragon Age Inquisition now, because I bought, I was telling everyone I bought it for like 13 bucks on a weekend sale off Amazon. And I didn't even have to go to a store. And it's great because it's the game of the game of the year edition. So it's all the DLC has all the, you know, tweaks and stuff. And it was 13 bucks, you know, that's a really good. I don't know if that's even that might be a topic for the show or something, which is you can live so much more cheaply with technology than you used to. If you don't care about certain things, right? If you don't mind playing Skyrim this old, you can get it for 13 bucks. Oh yeah. You know, it's a huge discount and it's still a decent game. It's not like back when you were shopping at Babbage's and the $13 games were like, oh, I don't even want to play that game. They're like from Game Tech or some other like games off right now. No, they win. Those guys win evergreen awards for that game all the time because somehow all these years later, it is still. It holds up. It holds up. And if you just want to watch TV, you don't have to pay a dime. Like if you just want to watch entertaining things, there's so much legal free content. If you want to watch a particular thing, then you might have to pay $10 a month. And if you want to watch a particular thing right as it comes out, then you might have to pay extra. But there's so many ways to do things cheaply is if you don't, what you're paying for is to be trendy, really. I envy the casuals a lot. It's pretty cool. I mean, like with the seat, for example, the CW gives you access to all the CW shows within like a month and a half. So you get the last four or five episodes. You have to watch commercials, but yeah. And you get this is the thing, the commercials are shorter on it than what you would have sat through on a network. It's great. Although with TV, with TV, I can press the little green button and just skip right through that. That's true. That's my bathroom signal. And you know what? The other thing is a lot of those shows are built with bathroom don't mean something entirely different to Roger. The bat stands for bat bathroom. It says the bat that has that little icon that you see at the airport for the restrooms. Is it a guy in a wheelchair or not? The guy that looks like he's in a wheelchair. Accessible ones, it is. Yeah. But what are they used for a toilet icon? Like at the airport? Men or women that I don't think I've ever seen. I bet there is one though. I just don't remember. There's one with a little, there's like a little stick figure squatting on something. It might be. It has to be. One sec. Oh yeah. Are you going to find one or is he going to go to the bathroom? Maybe. Maybe the power of suggestion. Oh, I was trained well. Before we ever got into the car, my dad would always yell at me. I just looked up toilet sign and it's generally a word in various languages with the universal men or woman figurine outline. There are a few that have like a toilet bowl, like a universal toilet bowl, but most of them just say toilet. And it's the thing that like when you see the man, woman, oh yeah, like outline, you just immediately assume. Which is weird because the one for wheelchair actually looks more like a toilet thing than it does a wheelchair. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It just looks like you're in a commode, like squatting there, sitting there. Commode. Commodious. I'm going to check this news one more time. Ajit Pai pledges to build out broadband, speed up decision making. Okay. I like that. Those sound like good things. Let's see. Let's see what actually happens. Yeah. I'm all I'm all happy for great words. I'm more excited to see that. I'm not against those ideas as expressed in those words that I just used. What are you downloading? You're downloading something? No, I'm going through all the tabs to make sure that all the things loaded the Dutch election results are in. Spoiler alert. Mark Routy's party wins the Dutch election. First exit polls say with Geert Wilder's party trailing. Trailing second or trailing? These are exit polls though. Yeah. And the headline doesn't say trailing by how much. The center right Mark Routy party won 31 out of 150 seats far ahead of the next three parties including Geert Wilder's freedom party. Oh, the Christian Democrat party and the liberal party. All three got 19 seats according to this BBC story. The way it's written. So we oh wait I see. So it was 31 for VVD and then 19 for the other three. And then of course there's tons of smaller parties that got seats. That's breaking news folks. Exit polls. For the Dutch election which those of you who are Dutch are very concerned with. Those of you who are European probably curious about very you know if not concerned with. Those of you who are in the U.S. probably hadn't heard about. Who is currently in the ruling party? Oh it's always a coalition in the Netherlands because they never get a majority. Did Scott go to the bathroom? I know he said he'd be right back but did he say where he was going? I don't recall. Did he lock himself in by accident? You should always keep a screwdriver in your bathroom. You know that right? Why? That way you can undo the door knob if you need to. Why would I need to do that? In case you get locked in. That's possible to get locked in when the lock is on the inside. Well you never know what if somebody turns it around when you're not looking. Better to be safe. Um well I could probably lift it off the hinges. Where did he go? You get distracted. Uh oh. The mystery of Scott Johnson. Well while we wait. This is the Verity requesting permission for system entry. Roger Verity system control responded. Proceed to entry and submit credentials for orbit insertion port. Acknowledged. Apprentice DEF turned to Instructor X. Well done. Apprentice DEF. Think you can land it? Storytime is over. I'm back. Where'd you go? I had to get some tissue and pee. Oh okay. That was that was our supposition when you were gone for more than just tissue getting. Well the power suggestion from Roger and I had to pee. Yeah yeah. All right let's start this candle. Ready to roll. Get this candle started. All right. Oh wait. I like this party. I gave you I gave you control. I think you should have it. Control control. Yep. All right here we go. Daily Tech News Show is powered by you. Thank you. Find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash support. This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday March 15th. The Ides of March 2017. I'm Tom Merritt joining me on Wednesdays is Scott Johnson. How are you on this fine anniversary of Julius Caesar's assassination? Well early spring flew not withstanding. I'm doing great and also happy March Madness to everybody who gives a crap about basketball. You know March Madness to me means voting for the April book pick on sordenlaser.com because we do we've now for the second year we're doing our own March Madness brackets. Oh nice. Are you uh you vote on different matchups and then the winner goes on the next week to go against another book and then eventually we get one winner. Do you worry that we have too many yearly traditions that at some point we're going to run out of time and it'll just be one after another all 12 months of the year? Well it feels that way sometimes when they say it's National Donut Day again and I'm like wasn't it National Donut Day like two weeks ago? Yeah. I've got a couple interesting tidbits here before we get into the main top story. Security researcher in one time iOS jailbreak developer Jonathan Jarski has accepted a position with Apple's security engineering and architecture team. Whoa that's uh that's turning a leaf is what that is I think. I hope it doesn't mean he gets silenced because Jarski is one of the people I turn to especially when they're talking about mobile device security to find out what the real story is on stuff and I would hate to see him fall into the apple vat of not talking to anyone. Well it is interesting it's different than the Kevin Mitnick deal right where it was hacker hacker hacker and then he kind of did his time and now he goes around and does talks and also helps companies be more secure but this is literally a hire not from a hacker community so much but jailbreaking community is a little bit a little sleeping with the enemy but I don't know I think he hasn't he hasn't been a jailbreaker for years he's he's been a legit security researcher for for quite a while so it's not like they pulled him straight off the off the the ex developers forum or something. Netflix has agreed to finance the restoration of Orson Welles unfinished film The Other Side of the Wind. Oh they couldn't get enough crowdfunding money so Netflix is gonna foot the bill. So is this uh I know very little about the story but my understanding is it was an incomplete project but not they're not just going to take old film and finish the film they're going to take I guess what he had written and what he had done and make make a movie out of it. Well I'm curious what they're going to do yeah like are they gonna are they gonna use CGI to to fill in the gaps are they gonna reshoot things I don't know it'll be interesting to see. Rosebud. Alright let's move into our top stories and this is the big one the US Justice Department has indicted four people for breaching Yahoo security in 2014 this is the access to the database and cookie forging breach there are many Yahoo breaches to keep track of. Two of the accused Dimitri Dukuchaev and Igor Sushchin are members of Russia's FSB intelligence agency those two are accused of hiring Alexey Belan to break into Yahoo's network Belan actually was arrested by Interpol in Europe and escaped to Russia and then they hired Karim Baratov who was arrested in Canada Tuesday he is a Canadian they hired him to access 80 accounts outside of Yahoo so for the first time we have confirmation that Google accounts were among those hacked using info from the Yahoo breach and that Google assisted with this investigation not a vulnerability of Google but basically what would happen is they'd find accounts on Yahoo and then try those credentials on Google and if somebody was using the same name and password it might work. The thing that surprised me about this is that two of the individuals work for the Russian FSB which is kind of like saying Russia wants to I don't know arrest a couple of CIA operatives or NSA operatives and that's that part feels huge to me for whatever reason I'm no inter there's some international relations implications here yeah yeah that's a big deal all for Yahoo all for a Yahoo security breach which just gets worse and worse I mean some of the stuff that Belan was doing involved they were letting him use stolen gift cards and do some spam stuff to redirect search results to gain to gain referral income it's it's a mess you think anything comes to light from this that will further affect the acquisition of Yahoo by by a third party the way it's I doubt it it's it sounds like Verizon did their best to prepare for this because they must have known that this investigation was going on and so they've made their agreement they've made their peace it would have to be a new breach altogether I think to change what's going on with Verizon what makes sense speaking of breaches let's talk about battery breaches a person was using a battery powered set of headphones and this was on a flight again feels like these are always on flights now from Beijing to Melbourne and the battery overheated burned at this lady's face and neck and the Australian airport safety bureau did not release the brand of headphones we don't know who they were made by or what the deal is but it feels like just one more thing in the news about lithium ion batteries bursting into flames specifically on flights and Tom sometimes I can't tell if this is the shark attack effect which is yeah well no other shark attacks are up from two instead of one last year but but everyone just thinks oh there's tons of shark attacks this is definitely the local news effect right which is oh there's so many murders when the murder rate may actually be down but they're reporting them so you feel like they're up I don't know that the the lithium ion battery faults are happening more often they were with the note seven remember when the first note seven happened I was the one saying now hold on one battery having a fault does not make a recall it turned out in that case there were more of them and when they kept happening then you said okay now there's a pattern this I think it said we it feels like what you said is it seems like these always happen on planes because a person was using a battery powered headphones sitting in their home the other day and they faulted doesn't make the headlines right happening on a plane no that's scary that makes the headline so we are more likely to hear about them happening on a plane than happening other places but the fact of the matter is this is a known issue with lithium ion batteries in in a very small percentage of cases this can happen so if all of a sudden next week we hear about another pair of headphones and then another pair of headphones then we're going to want to know the brand we're going to know if there's a fault here but it could just be one of those things that were like you know this does happen and and in the number of batteries carried on a plane and the number of planes and the millions of people traveling every hour the fact that what this happened just this once recently is a pretty good percentage yeah this and not necessarily anecdotal evidence that we're trying to charge them faster make them last longer make them smaller maybe there's something to that and a couple weeks ago maybe it's just last week we talked about a new battery technology and maybe maybe that's the answer but yeah well and and that's I'm glad that the Australian Transport Safety Bureau used this as an opportunity to say not hey that company is at fault but to say you should be aware that this could happen and treat batteries with respect when you travel don't put them in your checked luggage keep them separated from other things when they're in your carry-on luggage and just be aware it's it's like being aware on the road you you could run into someone and fatally injure yourself while driving doesn't mean don't drive it means be aware that that could happen and take care same thing with lithium ion batteries they're likely not to explode on you uh in fact I don't even like to use the word explode because they really they don't explode there's not shrapnel they just start smoking uh and sparking and and burning and and in this case they they burn this woman's neck and face and and that's not good uh but it's very rare for that to happen yeah I wonder I wonder if we ever will find out the brand because if there end up being Samsung brand I just would feel so bad oh you know that I almost don't want to know the brand for that case unless it happens again it starts to happen to the same brand multiple times then yeah I totally want to know a paper published on Tuesday in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences describes a way to help neural networks remember tasks they've learned this may take a minute to get your head around but neural networks mimic the way the brain works to teach a machine something the research conducted by alphabets deep mind found to get a way to get around something called catastrophic forgetting uh that causes a neural net to forget a task if you want to teach it a different task so let's say you teach the neural net how to recognize a cat and then you're like all right now let's teach you how to recognize a dog it'll forget how to recognize a cat you can only teach it the one task and it can remember that one task right it stores it but the neural net itself can only be used for one task at a time until now an algorithm called elastic weight consolidation or ewc slows down how fast important nodes in the neural that are altered it mimics the way our brains work or at least it's trying to using this algorithm a neural net became close to as good as a human at 10 atari games they they change it to play atari games because why not uh so it got good at 10 at them whereas before if you trained it on one it would forget how to play the previous one it still wasn't as good as a neural net trained specifically for just one game right so so the fact that it was trying to remember how to play all these games made it not as good as it could have been if it was only trained to do the one yeah but you could certainly argue humans are also sort of bad at that like i uh you hand me a controller let's say a playstation or a 360 controller and i'm playing a game of that control and i've got my x y and my b and my a layout and i'm used to it and i'm playing games with it and then you hand me a nintendo switch and we go back to the nintendo way which is a complete skewing of those numbers a's over here x is on top uh b is on bottom it makes no sense compared to those other control schemes and i have to kind of go okay no wait a minute i'm hit well in this case it's like that this is an even simpler example like it's the same control scheme it's just saying you're now playing pitfall instead of adventure yeah right but i mean even then it's like if i'm going to play heroes of the storm and i play it all the time i'm going to be a better heroes of the storm player but if i intermingle that with league of legends and dota 2 despite them being similar genres i'm going to not be as good of a heroes player or as good of any of those other ones are going to become a jack of all trades master of none and so this actually is really impressive to me that they can get this close it's when they get better than this and i'm going to get ticked because you shouldn't be better than me at this computer well if you perform if you train the neural bet on one game in particular it will likely be better than a human performer in a lot of these cases it is and i'm a little when you try to have them be good at 10 at once that they're not they they get close i'm a little hung up on them being a tarry game still for some reason it feels like they maybe went took the simplest possible route without the with the least amount of complexity that's fine i mean come on you're you're not seeing the forest for the trees here like they trained a freaking computer to just learn how to play let's not forget we i think we forget like oh well so they programmed the computer to play it's like the computer plays when i play the atari right no no no this is we set a computer a neural net in front of space invaders and said figure it out and it did you know and got as good as we are or better like and so yeah they're using Atari games because they just need something that is complex for it to learn but the implications are well now it can learn all kinds of things it can learn to drive and it can learn to manage your home and it can learn to handle nuclear power and all kinds of stuff yeah it's totally a bit so it's a weird thing i get hung up on but you're totally right i want to know can they ever put a piece of paper and a drawing implement in front of one of these one of these learning computers and within a few days have that thing be able to create art can it be a combination of visual stuff like a bowl of fruit out in front of them and will they have to make a bowl of fruit on a piece of paper and will they just get better at it that kind of thing is utterly fascinating to me well and i wonder if this kind of complexity and this kind of elastic weight count and solidation will allow it to learn more complex behaviors it's one thing to know like there's a pattern of moves i can go up down right left fire fire fire versus i can make this pen stroke go anywhere at any width with different pen strokes that's a lot to try to remember but if suddenly you can teach it here's how to draw a line here's how to draw a curve here's how to draw a swoop here's how to do shading here's how to recognize shading and it can keep all of those lessons you can do more complex lessons because they're complimentary and it will get to a point that's fascinating and they'll be they'll be better at us i mean straight up that's the hardest part about art is is that complexity if it masters that complexity there's no stopping it we're all gonna die get used to it being better at you yeah than you at things like that's that's happening i mean it's already better than us at things like go these are the same folks that made alphago right so yeah that's happening and i'm very curious they got up just one more little point about this they got up at blizzcon last year and they announced a cooperative deep minded talked about a cooperative thing they were doing with blizzard regarding starcraft and ai behavior within that game and then we've heard zip about it so i want to know what's going on i'm really curious about that like i had to get a good at these ten Atari games before i can graduate to starcraft i see i think perfect sense well if you want to get good at browsing good good news everybody if your pc's been struggling a little bit with chrome in the past starting in chrome 57 that's right we're on the behind the 57 version of chrome which releases this week background tabs will be limited to an average cpu load of only 1% that is a huge savings compared to how it used to work after 10 seconds um in the background the tab will get a limited budget of cpu usage like i said a a load of 1% tabs playing music or with an active web rtc or web sockets connection will be exempt from this so sometimes you get heavier lifting happening on some of these tabs and that'll still be the case google plans to phase out the javascript heavy background tab operations all together by 2020 and encourage websites to use new tech like service workers to provide things like background sync and push notifications this will be good news to anyone's ears who feels like chrome's a bit of a pig on especially on ram i i felt that like that in the past not currently having any issues but does seem like a thing long time coming yeah uh anybody who uh you know pulls up that monitor whether it's on windows or os 10 or mac os uh and and looks at the percentage the chrome tasks are using is going to welcome this with open arms and it makes sense that you want web rtc to have a consistent connection because maybe you're you're on a voice call that uses web rtc in your browser and just because your focus isn't in on that tab doesn't mean you want it to go away right so there's there are legitimate exemptions music playing is another one of those so that's smart but what they're saying is we don't want that tab in the background that is just chunking through a bunch of javascript to load ads because the page is so loaded with ads or even just tracking software or some kind of you know some kind of flash slideshow if you're not looking at it it shouldn't be using up all your cpu cycles and it sounds like they really what they really want to do is get people off a javascript and have them use service workers instead yeah which i think is a good step so uh more efficient use of tabs especially for friends of mine i might co-host on my morning show brian it but has an average of 40 tabs open at any given time and he wonders why his computer is such a slog so maybe this will help a team of scientists at the university of michigan used precisely tuned acoustic tones to make 15 different models of accelerometers register movements that did not occur in fact in the video they show them just pointing the speaker at a fitbit and the fitbit starts counting steps because it thinks it's moving but it's not uh they use that cheap speaker actually to register those thousands of untaken steps so you didn't need high level equipment just the algorithm that they came up with uh they also were able to play a constructed file from a phone's own speaker a music file that they created to fool an android app into controlling a toy car uh another file made a galaxy s five spell out the word walnut in its sensor graph we i still haven't figured out why why they chose walnut uh the scientists use the same phenomenon that can cause a glass to break when a singer hits a note with glasses you resonant frequency is what that's called but you know that that cartoon where you know the opera singer hits the high note and the glass breaks that's a real thing that can happen and they're using that principle of resonant frequency to basically make the the core of the accelerometer move without the device actually moving you know it's like same thing that shakes that glass makes this move it reminds me of um i think it was myth busters they did a myth where they had a a myth about a bridge that if you applied the right amount of vibration at the right frequency basically putting speakers on points of this bridge that was otherwise you know this heavily a constructed bridge it would be enough to send it into this huge waveform and and blow itself to bits based on you know kind of small stuff like that and of course it didn't work at the level people said it was some testing but then later they did what they had to to make it do it and it took a lot less than you thought outside of that though the concern here would be things like drones that are controlled by people's phones um it's easy to look at some nightmare scenarios with this but also i just want that hardware to be resistant to hacking because i'd like to know how many steps i really took today i'd like it and granted this this is a research lab showing hey this is something we didn't think to defend against uh and a computer scientist probably would have never thought to defend against this a material scientist would have thought of the security implications of this but because we looked at both sides of it we saw how we could manipulate the material of the accelerometer to make something happen that could undermine the phone and granted you know hacking into somebody's fitbit to make it count more steps is probably not a very useful hack especially when you have to be near them and playing this high pitch tone they'll be like why are you doing that are you trying to hack my fitbit like it's it's not necessarily practical at this level but any of these kinds of exploits could become practical given enough time and enough effort if somebody figures out a way to game a system like you say maybe there's a uav that is involved in some highly secure operation and and being able to send a high pitch tone that humans can't hear that affects the accelerometer uh could could change conditions on a battlefield somewhere so you want to be aware of that and the point of the story is that the researchers have figured out hardware tweaks that would eliminate this problem and they have told manufacturers of all the models of accelerometers that they tested on about this they've also recommended some software changes that could be pushed easily to existing accelerometers to mitigate this sort of thing from happening probably worth mentioning that it's not just our fitbit trackers our phones and our handheld consoles that have accelerometers in them anymore there's a lot of hardware out there that depends on that stuff so yeah when you start to think of internet of things and all of the sensors i mean in principle this is the accelerometer but in principle this could be a kind of attack that you could you know mimic somehow against barometers and motion sensors and and all kinds of things so yeah in the wrong hands that's all i'm saying just gotta watch out for those guys what the wrong hey folks uh if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in less than five minutes well it's around five minutes less than 10 minutes but around five minutes subscribe to dailytechheadlines.com or check it out in the app anchor.fm and that is a look at the headlines all right one other thing that came out today is google's family link this allows children younger than 13 to use google services things like gmail and have their own account usually if you're under 13 they really limit what you can do but now someone who's under 13 can have their own gmail their own map account their own chrome account youtube kids is part of this not regular youtube but youtube kids it's all tied to your parents account of course and there's limited data collection as per the children's online privacy protection act here in the us but each app uh comes with a content rating and parents can limit screen time by day they can list blackout times they can turn off access if it's time for dinner they can block apps in fact they can block apps of any kind on the device not just the google apps the way it works is parents install a family link app and then a similar app goes on the child's device right now they're both android they're working on an ios version of the family link app for parents unfortunately because of the os restrictions children will only be able to use this on android so if you want to use this you're going to have to give your kid an android device google apps have extra controls in them so chrome for instance has a control that lets the parents set unfiltered safe search or a white list that says you can only go to these websites and it'll send notifications so if the kid tries to download an app that's not approved a notification goes to the parent parent can say no or yes they can also look at analytics to see which apps their kids are using and how long limited beta is starting now it's launching in the us later this year scott as a parent uh do you wish you had this when your kids were under 13 well yeah i mean i my youngest is now 16 so time has passed but back in like let's say 20 odd 10 2011 those would have been good years for this service for me as a parent and what i really like the most about it is the analytics data is everything when parents are trying to make good decisions with technology in their homes or outside the home having no data really doesn't do any good if all you know is oh they're on the phone or oh their phones with them or i can track their location generally speaking that's all well and good and that sort of thing's been around for a while there've been ways to do that but what really always mattered to me is where are they going how long are they there are they playing games on that one site great that sounds like fun but are they spending four and a half hours there on on a saturday and i'm not aware of it that's not okay so giving people giving parents real data to make parental decisions is everything about this like the rest of it doesn't matter compared to that part of it so as as excited as i am about this all of the reading i did today about this i'm a little concerned they're not giving enough data and maybe they don't know what that data is yet maybe i don't even know what that data is yet but i i hope that that becomes more and more of it i want a chart i want to see uh of the five phones on our family plan which one's using the most data which one's going to wear and how long which one did we restrict and is that restriction being honored like that kind of stuff's gonna matter a lot i think to your average parent you know this is not the first app to do this so that another fair question is why why would you want google's family link instead of some other third party app uh there there's been tons of them around for a long time yeah i mean that's going to be the big determining factor and who knows data and how to search through it and how you know uh use it and parse it better than google like google has the most data of any of them like this is this is a chance for them to really i don't know to show their stuff and make it easy make people with google homes be able to say things to their google home and home you know change uh billy's access to restricted he's in trouble and grounding him or whatever like lots of simple voice activated uh account bound methods text email like just give us all these tools and abilities to do this so that we're not having to rely on six different services give a parent all they need google can do things if you live in the google universe these other apps can't right uh a lot of this hinges on hey spend more time giving google your data uh if if you're a parent who already has a gmail account this may sound great right because hey i already use the gmail suite of apps so this is going to be perfect i already have android phones i was going to get my child an android an android phone anyway uh so yeah i i can take advantage of the extra things that google can give me because it's all happening inside their system whereas other apps like hero they have to kind of go out and grab the data which means they aren't going to get as complete they don't have as much control over the system if you're using gmail they can't get into gmail to do all the things that google can because it runs gmail yeah if you pull the camera out i think what i'm most impressed with here is we're finally talking about a top tier company meaning there's a million little companies doing a million little things but this is google this is a you know on par with apple or uh facebook or somebody else comes out a big tier technology company and says we acknowledge that this is an issue we also this is basically the tacit acknowledgement that kids under 13 are getting on the internet there's this weird hope and prayer every time you do an age verification thing on steam or somewhere that someone's being truthful about when they say their birthday is and they're not younger than 13 or that kid who's really 10 is actually 13 when he started facebook it doesn't work that way so in a way they're acknowledging that that's a thing and we should quit making it like this weird hidden thing or in some cases parents feel like they have to kind of make a a work around because they feel like their 11 year old's okay to be online that brings up a question jopeman in the chat room just asked which i bet a lot of people are thinking is why not just take the phones away well that okay let's look at it this way when when you and i were kids and you and i were getting in trouble for something that's a method they'd use then take away the thing that they're in trouble for hanging out with your friends you can't play any more video games tv's off for the next you can't watch must must watch thursday night on mvp or whatever so it's not like that's a new idea but what i think happens is we're now transitioning away from these are special devices i can't believe we have one what a great time to be a technology lover and look at us all with these cool phones we need to treat them as if they are unusual and special cases they're not anymore these are a part of the fabric of modern life and there's no getting away from that at this point that you can agree with that or like that or hate that but that's just the truth of it so my son having a phone is no longer the quote unquote privilege it used to be it's quickly become a necessity for lots of reasons i could name that'll take way too long for this podcast but that's just the truth of it so just i mean i think you can name a few of the reasons which is you want them to be able to contact you right they to to get emails from school to phone you if they need to to research things that are from legitimate sites that they need to increase their education there's all kinds of benefits yeah to me it's like it's got to the point where a smartphone is like a pair of glasses it's like a good pair of shoes it's like a driver's license it is a useful productive part of people's lives and as much as some may hate to hear it this that is true of kids it is absolutely more true of kids than it's ever been so i don't think i'm not saying as a parent you shouldn't have those moments where you just take it away we do it all the time when it's necessary it's not that you always have that option but i wouldn't go into it looking like looking at it is like a on off a one zero kind of proposition it's it's always going to be a little more mutated than that and you're also talking about something that is not a luxury anymore it is a utility in much of our lives we may not have completely transitioned to that yet but we're dang close so i think acknowledging that is healthy having big companies like this say we see that this is a thing this also helps their ecosystem don't forget this plugs in oh yeah no don't forget that yeah so you know whatever future training a whole new generation of gmail users they can sell ads to exactly as much as i want to put this all on their you know philanthropy there's there's some benefits there's a win-win happening for them so all of that being said i i think any tools that give parents more choices and more ability to control these things and an ever-increasing complex tech world is a good thing yeah in fact joban who who made that provocative question points out that unless you give them some if unless you leave them in control of some of it they won't learn self-control uh and so this this kind of system like family link is good at that where it says all right i'm going to let you use your phone and when i call you for dinner you come to dinner and if you don't come to dinner because you're looking at your phone i could turn your phone off and then we'll start again tomorrow right right you could even get real granular with that we start dinner at five sharp or whatever it's kind of early bird but anyway we and so your phones are automatically off then like they could do a lot down the road to give parents even more control but i'm happy they're starting here hey thanks everybody who participates in our subreddit helps us figure out the cool topics we talk about on the show you can submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com few emails to get to today before we're out of here john weeb dykstra who has been helping me understand the world of smart collars for livestock uh wrote in and said sorry but i had to weigh in on that grown meat we talked about that grown meat yesterday scott he said i do believe this is where the future of meat consumption will end up as i assume the quality efficiency and profitability will be achieved over time that being said there are currently 105 million cows between the us and canada and if we no longer use them for meat consumption there will be a surplus of animals that will no longer be needed as much as i love having cows if farmers cannot compete with vat grown meat those numbers of cows will dwindle leaving them only in zoos to say that vat grown meat will not result in death is true instead it will result in animals not being born ethics are never simple oh he's right i mean couldn't we just if the vat if the vat grown meat thing is literally like it's impending it's right around the corner like we've done it we've achieved it it's next week we start we would just go ahead and eat all the cows we've got try not to wipe them out as a species and then move forward it's fine he's right there are no there's no such thing as no casualties but i'll eat those casualties it's fine a lot less methane in the air too i'm gonna get in trouble for that but yes i will eat the casualties eat the casualties uh tim jar wrote in and says i'm not saying i'm in lock step with you and the guests all the time but i've rarely disagreed so strongly with so many stories as i did at the start of yesterday's show uh for one he thinks that iphone that's android on one side and ios on the other is cool he'd love to have them both uh but he doesn't want to carry two phones he gets that this idea is a little quirky and weird but he thinks it's far from the laughing stock uh he says i personally don't carry cash so i love the google wallet and he also weighed in on microsoft teams saying i see a huge potential here because most of the groups i know are only using the free version of slack so if you'd like archiving but can't budget for the paid version like most of the groups i know on slack but your business already has office 365 or a microsoft license which is pretty common then teams has a ton of appeal i know it's a big reason that we are considering it yeah teams this does seem pretty cool back to his point about ios and you and patrick must really get on one because the idea of ios on one side and android on the other side of a phone can't that be achieved oh patrick was very dismissive of of this it's an it's an iphone case that runs android i don't know if you saw it okay no i didn't see it that's interesting um i interest and i also can totally i can totally see patrick being thinking that's just the silliest thing he's ever heard of but technically um i mean we're talking about arm based uh hardware in both cases right we got the architecture for apple's phones are based on arm i think aren't they yeah i actually don't know that i don't know where i don't know why that makes a difference though well the point the point is i'm trying to make is if that's true and you have plenty of android devices running arm architecture there's no reason why you can have a dual boot phone in the first place except for this is not a dual boot phone right this is two phones running side this is a case that runs an android phone in the case and then it plugs the iphone into it so it could share a few things like headphone jack and all and all i'm saying is that is a workaround to what should be happening which is a dual boot phone because yeah i apple i mean you have to run you have to jailbreak it then yeah you could yeah yeah but i mean if apple ever allowed such thing then great but never gonna never gonna do that all right so that's why it's ridiculous but if it wasn't if that wasn't true if they were like hey we're cool with clones or whatever let's just say there's a future of that then they're just dual boot and we didn't need we don't need a case with a phone on it we just need a phone that has two os's on it that are popular or three i don't know there's something about having a separated like a separate phone with its own sim card that i still find appealing to that um anyway andy wrote in and said i've been using team in beta now for six months or so and i have to say i'm fairly happy with it do i use slack yes why two platforms there are several things i work on that are considered hbi that's high business impact meaning it's very sensitive data and it's vital that it not be leaked or communicated externally too early none of these projects are allowed in a collaboration tool that isn't secured behind our own corporate domain login as slack is not the legal team would laugh themselves silly if i tried i imagine other companies face similar issues so i'm guessing there are folks likely to be interested in teams because of that so yeah if if your office domain is already behind your corporate login then teams is behind your corporate login and slack probably isn't yeah that's true i wonder if they have any options for that but i find myself in the same boat it's not for the same reasons but i have people that love slack and refuse to use anything else i have people who love discord and won't use anything else in these days discord is basically a clone of slack every time there's a new feature it's like well here it is in discord now um so i have those two running all the time i have other stuff that i run i have some individual things that i do just for my own productivity i am getting to a place we just make them up on a future show but i'm getting to a place where i'm having a little bit of team organization fatigue not because one of them isn't doing a great job it's just that i i'm finding myself still having to have five clients to handle it all and i think the whole original idea was to get away from that you know to get to a centralized place but i understand the challenges of that i also understand this is a burgeoning new place and people want in and they're all making an attempt at it included so it's fine but but there are days where i'm like oh that's right i told them in discord not slack i gotta go back it's like or in your case i even the other day i forgot to send you a link i sent it to you in slack but it was the wrong but it was the wrong slack yeah so slack within slack within slack problems i mean these are real first world problems but i'm just you know i i think there's a real opportunity and maybe it comes out of machine intelligence somehow or some of these virtual assistants to put a layer over all of this stuff and say i know you want to talk to scott i know who scott is in all of these different clients and what is it you want to say to him i will go and i will find that client i will say it to him and when he responds i will tell you yeah and so you don't have to think about is it sms is it spotify is it you know like i mean there's so many different places where you could talk to people about stuff is it steam did i say it in gmail and just a virtual assistant that figures all that stuff out and even learns like oh brian brushwood always replies on twitter but scott's reply time is faster on sms so when i respond to one i'm going to do it this way and the other this way and you don't need to know just say i want to tell him this and and i'll tell it to him yeah and there are a few things that try to be it reminds me of like what was that trillion or whatever it was called that sort of came around the time im's are so big and it would do your eyes would do your aol and would do all these different messaging services we need something like that but smarter like you're talking about i don't want just a i don't want just because even in trillion you had to know like oh i need to go to the scott that's the yahoo scott not the scott that's the aim scott so yeah yeah i want something smart can seek me out you see glimpses of this and each of these products once in a while they'll do a thing and go you know that is really smart but it's always in their ecosystem and yeah it is the problem of the app economy in the app ecosystem is it gets us thinking in silos you know and slack i i went around and around with alison shared in the other day about this because she's having a hard time figuring out how how slack is easy to use and i'm like in some ways it is the easiest to use but there are ways in which it's like a bunch of little silos inside of silo a silo and we need to break out of that yeah silos are no good for other silos being in the uh yeah that's it's a fascinating whole that whole thing is going to get interesting because i do uh my twitch just announced their new client and it's basically a discord competitor which is really a slack competitor which is really a bottle bottle like you go on forever about who these guys compete with they used to be the curse app they bought them out now they've got that app like there's a lot of choices not just for gamers and i'm seeing business people use discord preferable to slack so something's going to change something's going to happen and it's not everyone merging together into one company it's something like you're talking about and we'll we'll see who does it and then we'll be in that silo i guess yesterday's show and post show really got people thinking because mark from surprisingly cold atlanta has thoughts on daylight saving time godzilla the uptime app meat growing cows i will have all of his responses in show notes but i liked this one he says for anyone who does not support dtns already on patreon and has been looking for an additional reason for those who have access to the full feed on patreon already but have not been taking advantage consider subscribing to the patreon-based podcast feed the access to the pre and post show is both useful and entertaining you can gain a whole new perspective on the show regulars as well as the special guests take a listen you will not be disappointed thank you mark yeah i agree some of my favorite wednesday conversations have happened right before or right after the show shows are always good but there's some like real tidbits in there so i totally agree uh big thanks to len peralta who i know wasn't around on friday and he may not be able to be around this friday but he is busy getting his kids into colleges and in fact his son max won a national american visions medal in painting and he needs to go to carnegie hall in new york city to accept the award and despite what you may have heard the only way to get to carnego hall is not practice all right you you have to pay to get there so len's doing commissions to help fund the trip you can commission len for some original art even some dtns related art and help max make the trip to carnegie hall visit bit.ly slash max the painter for more information help the future of art make it to new york city uh and len says thanks in advance for supporting original art and young artists that's bit.ly slash max the painter you guys should see his paintings he is a phenomenon it's disgusting how good he is it's amazing he's as good as anybody i've ever seen there's no way he doesn't retire his dad or something he's so good uh well thank you scott johnson uh hope that you're not retiring yourself no i'm gonna keep going as long listen those maxes and the cars of the world they've got some work to do before they can take us home guys down but they're gonna get them 10 000 hours in which is apparently a myth but whatever oh is it okay great well i'm at 9 000 you tell me that i'm at 9 000 one hour to go and shoot i've already blown it um well thanks for having me on there's always something going on in my world that people are interested you can check out frogpants.com the recently redesigned frogpants.com links to all the podcasts and projects as they come up are happening there we're getting closer to lots of cool things including nortacular 2017 it's a big one this year very excited about it uh if you have the interest in that check it out nortacular.com tickets are sold out but you can find out when it's going to be streamed live and all of that tom will be there and a bunch of our friends so it should be great um what else i guess oh and my twitch channels hopping lots happening there when i'm not sick and coughing all over the microphone you can find that at twitch.tv slash frogpants and thanks for having me on as always yeah absolutely thanks to everybody who supports the show makes it possible to have scott on that includes jonathan mccann james tisdale jeff falbert and many more at patreon.com slash dtns our email address feedback at dailytechnewshow.com if you want to catch us live Monday through Friday 4 3 p.m alpha geek radio.com and diamondclub.tv and our website's dailytechnewshow.com back tomorrow with Justin robert young talk to you then show is part of the frog pants network get more at frogpants.com i hope you have enjoyed this bro nicely done yep yeah made it through i never heard a cough i did somehow it's funny the the pressure you know when the action recording is happening i tend to my body's like all right we're restraining ourselves yeah we had this cough switch what do we got for titles roger or is chrome doing weird things to you again okay um oh there you are i hear you heart's by oh heat's heat's by drae uh chrome keeping tabs on cpu usage why is it heats the burned up the headphones burned up oh yeah because of the headphones i almost forgot about that story okay that's got it uh x i am not a captcha those yahoo's got arrested hotbeats bathroom signal what is i am not a captcha what is that referring to um the uh was it the um robot no no no it was yesterday that was yesterday i am not a captcha oh no i don't know maybe it was it was referring to the ai-based thing you were talking about and they just thought of that or something i don't know okay maybe bathroom signal that was before the show yeah by a bunch of yahoo's smoking hot headphones google nanny google the family business i will eat those casualties silos with oh that the the captcha thing is apparently pre-show oh is it oh i i don't remember well we'll wait see what else floats i like i will eat those casualties a lot i i am i am one person that would not lament uh if we move to like synthetic background meat and cows disappeared because cows are very impactful on the land not to mention they're an invasive species um you know a lot of the grazing that they do take grazing away from native native fauna like pronghorn methane production like all this stuff is artificially enhanced because we do what we do with cows i totally agree with you feed lots i mean we grow there's a lot of crops we grow just to feed cows i can't wait to go to the cow museum where they have a living exhibit of cows once cows roamed far and wide across this planet until that grown meat was perfected they were they exist only here in the cow museum cows were brought over thousands of years ago from southeast asia so yeah but you but but you don't have cowboys anymore now we have vat boys and they they make sure the vats are good cowboys are just angloph anglophile vat boy up spanish spanish horseman a cowboy is a perfectly legitimate english name even if they did borrow it i mean cow boy oh no no but i'm just saying it's like you know it's it's it's a job no no one's gonna no one misses the hay baler oh no my job is a hay baler's gone now we got a there are still legitimate cowboys aren't there oh there are but i'm just saying like you know without cows with that no vat boys yeah vat boys also we don't we don't have we don't have uh squires anymore it's true here's what you do oh i we have lots of squires but here's what you do the vat thing needs to make okay so everyone talks about vat grown meat it doesn't need to happen on a factory level where it needs to happen is at the mall food place you're buying your food at they need to have their locally grown yes local vat meat in the back room that's making fresh lamb for your euros you're selling in the food court oh that boy yeah bring me a fresh patty oh you know be great because then i mean it would be like one step toward the start track replicator you would just have like you know the little thing in the back it just turned out yeah print the meat constantly be printing love that i am not a vat boy i am vat man yeah vat the vat boys are the least best uh wrap group in the 80s no one liked the vat boys the vat boys were good not the vat boys i'm sure they'll find something like you can either have a rare or well done but no medium which is with the way i like oh they'll figure they're saying you're saying this future will have a way of figure out a way of screwing you over on the meat yes yes vat man he puts meat on the hero sand which you deserve so the vat man what's this dark vat what's the signals you put in the sky like a big pork chop like what's he do big pork chop a giant a giant burger i don't know yeah i don't know what it would be a giant bite mark big t-bone steak in the sky i'm waiting for the i'm waiting for when we shift over to not not synthetic meat but we shift over to bison meat buffalo meat it's a little leaner drier but many can't that's not happen there's problems with that i read why like people have been trying to shift to bison meat and then it's turning turning out that they can't grow bison fast enough or something yeah because they don't bison thing fell apart didn't have the thousands of years of human human uh uh meddling to to get up to not to mention they like purge three quarters of the population it's true there's not a lot of genetic variety out there with the bison these days which is one of the one of the fears they have is in breeding because every all the by all the remaining bison are related to each other in some way i had a we need a title oh yeah title all right so those guys who got arrested yeah that's pretty all right done yeah sorry the meat thing kind of kind of swung me up yeah yeah that's fine no problem bison burger i'm gonna tell you right now they're great they are they are very good no i actually prefer because um beef really weighs me down but bison doesn't like when i eat a like i don't know because i don't eat burgers as often as i used to but like i eat one and i go if they eat a bison burger i don't get that same feeling i think it's the fat yeah they're low they're harder to cook though because of that you there were not harder but they're less forgiving yes it's very easy to make it dry which is why you boil it back to boiling or boiling bison wow that oh broil broil broiled bison burgers sounds very english broiled bison or boiled yeah don't boil your bison unless it's all at once yeah then it might come out pretty good i have to say though i used to boil chicken for jango when she got uh stomach problems did make it easier to digest yeah yeah that was the idea but it always tasted really good yeah why wouldn't it why is boiling because you're not supposed to boil stuff because it boils out all the flavor but i'm like yeah if you don't get rid of the water it's fine make broth out of it that's how you make that's how you make chicken stock yeah but even the even when i took the chicken out of the water and i was putting it in her bowl sometimes i would sample a little make sure it was done or whatever and it was you blow on it to make sure it was cool yeah i'd always have to wait for it to cool before i do that with an ellie and her egg of waffles i blow on it before i give it to her so he brings bacon says british don't broil that is an american word but broil no no grill no grilling is different broiling is where you apply the heat on the top but we have a london broil is that referred to london nebraska when you yeah when you broil something the heat the heat source is above the meat as opposed to grilling where it's below you can't swim don't don't put the chickens can't swim how do we know how do we know go and check the water i'm sure we do know we probably know if it stinks it's a witch if it floats away if it floats it's a witch and if it drowns it's not is that it yep i can't remember you know watch that movie again outer planets alliance oh it's wednesday new new expanse tonight new magicians and expanse it's sort of laser wednesday on the sci-fi so wait wait what sees his magicians on right now two or three two how many episodes are they in uh like seven i think so i only i only remember the how season one ended where that demon demigod thing possessed like tricked what's her name and killed everyone and that's so cool that's that's where i left it so does it get better from there i i actually liked season one so perhaps it doesn't for you i don't know but i'm really i like i think season two is better than season one okay that's good my my biggest issue with magicians was the pacing and so is with new shows their first it was a little slow especially the first half of that season but this season is much better i think okay because i want more they're spending a lot more time in fillery okay that's good i like uh i like the legion a lot too so for me wednesdays are expanse and legion nights ah so you're not watching the magicians huh no but i plan to catch up and do it well i can't watch any of them until they're after they're i had a weird thing where a scene from the current expanse book yeah uh and a scene from the expanse last week were so similar that i almost started spoiling brian on something from the book oh because i got confused because you're on taiko station with daas in both situations and i'm like oh wait no no that's not what does does that's what does doesn't the book in the show he did this can i just say i am it i am uh enchanted by the the accent that they've gone ahead and figured out how to use for the belters i don't know what it did did you see someone uh on twitter was telling me about uh they hired linguists to come in and flesh out that language that's awesome because it's the girl that works for fred johnson i don't know the actress's name she could read a whole book to me and that that accent i just love it oh my gosh it's great and they've somehow managed to make it seem totally original but also reminiscent of about five dialects and which is oh yeah because the the backstory from the book which you know is that that it's a mishmash of of multiple of the major languages of people who migrated to the bell yep and every time um what's his name uh the pilot alex says anything i just want to smile until i can't stop smiling i love it oh my gosh also i love they don't do it enough but Naomi is a belter right right and she she talks with a little bit of an accent but every once in a while she'll be talking to another belter and she'll go full accent and it's so funny it's so it's it's such a cool little thing where they're like oh yeah the Naomi you hear talk that's that's not how Naomi grew up talking and when she talks to another belter she slips into her thicker belter patois yeah and i love that because that will happen to me when i talk to my friend mark jergena on the phone yeah my wife starts making fun of me because i start slipping into my southern illinois accent that i grew up talking yeah i love it they're killing it with that it just is such world-building stuff for me just goes away those kind of details go a long way for me it's not it's like they're not cheating i love it i hope more people watch that show i need it to keep going oh like the expanse yeah yeah i need to get into that everyone who watches it ends up loving it it's just having a part of it worth buying the season so you can keep it up with yeah it's that good that's why i well i didn't get view for this reason but the view is nice because now we just have that's how i've been watching it too yeah and they don't for whatever reason sci-fi is commercial breaks on view or nothing it's like 10 seconds of nothing so oh you're watching on demand on dvr huh yeah i have i've been doing it the opposite i dvr it and then i just fast forward to the commercials but because you can't skip on demand but if they're not long then well you know that's a great thing with the on a lot of the on-demand stuff is their commercials are short yeah like they run you two or three ads and that's it and then there's more space in between too between the next ad so i like who is so much a lot of that is because they don't um they don't actually sell the inventory so if they don't have an ad to fill unlike broadcast where you just have to fill it with psas they just don't put anything in there well typically they'll run uh promos for other shows or the network yeah they will do that you're right watch the next everyone loves uh everyone loves raymond even though that show went off the year five wait 10 years ago where did that come from i don't know i don't actually see promos for everyone every button loves raymond does love raymond it was from the weird that show had no kids in it what raymond yeah yeah they did he had kids he did yeah him and his wife had kids on that show what about king of queens uh no no kids on king of queens you might be thinking of that maybe this king of queens was like um middle aged married couples but none of them had children i think they're still having the barbecue versus broiling debate in the chat room by the way oh good that's that's a that's a perennial topic jose bond says it's only barbecue if it has barbecue sauce i disagree with that that is that is not what barbecue means yeah barbecue dry rub makes a very good barbecue barbecue is a method of cooking that where you slow cook it and typically in an enclosure for a very long period of time the sauce rub and all that stuff is incidental to the actual method of cooking like what people when they say i'm gonna barbecue what they're actually doing is grilling like during the fourth of july you're just grilling you're not barbecue oh well i think zoe brings bacon agrees with you on that that's what you i wish zoe would bring me a blt because i'm hungry i bet she would if she could in prison they got bacon they got they got tomato i guess it's a prison if no it's a better bread than we do all right everybody thanks for watching hanging out we will be back tomorrow with justin robert young fairly well but