 Hello everybody welcome back to esoteric Atlanta. I am so so so excited. I have my friend Kelly teal back I'm so happy to call you my friend and this episode what we're doing today actually in spite We were having a conversation just on the phone just as friends do Kelly as many of you guys probably have gathered is a weirdo just like us So we talk about all sorts of stuff on the phone and we were talking about I forgot how it came up Kelly We were talking a lot about like the process of Of like grief and leaving and we talked a lot about I know you guys if you're new to the show or if you if it's your first I'm catching the show Kelly teal is an awesome human being who survived nexium. That's just something she did It's not all of who she is I'm really excited for more and more and more of you to come out Kelly as You get out there even more because even though that's kind of been like the platform you've been using to talk about your story There's so much more to you than just this one-time period of your life But if you guys miss the first episode that I did with Kelly I will put that down in the description box below plus the episode that Kelly did with our friend Katherine Edwards as well So you can kind of get caught up on who this beautiful lady is and what she has done with her life post nexium And Kelly we were speaking. I think we're talking about like so many people are so fascinated Myself included by like cults and like what happens to get somebody into that situation And then what happens in the aftermath of getting out and so many people I feel like are missing a really big chunk of the of the reality of the experience And that's the humanity of the experience and the grief of the experience And saying that I will say I think there is a huge demographic of people who do get that And that's why they're interested and intrigued by these stories because they can relate to that that That experience of going through loss like that. And so Let's start there because you've said some really really powerful things off camera about your experience of like Decluttering your mind coming away from nexium Yeah, I mean coming away from leaving nexium was a process just like leaving any kind of relationship or Leaving a group or community and so the first thing that I encountered was an enormous amount of grief And I didn't understand it. I didn't understand why I was feeling so sad when I was doing something that I knew was right but what what I came to found out find out was that you know my connection to the community my connection to my life in Nexium what what it had been Was a process and I had to let go and any time most times when you let go of things there's grief involved and so there was many levels of grief first there was sort of just the Just a kind of the grief that you don't even know what it is And then the kind of grief that you're thinking okay now I recognize this as grief and then there's the actual like grieving part which I found I tried to rush through Yeah, so uncomfortable and you rush through grief Yeah, you can't rush through grief But when you try you almost you make it a longer period of time So I had to lean into the grief and just be with that Grieving process of I lost a community of people I lost part of myself that I actually really liked that was in nexium. There was a part of nexium that was really good I wouldn't have stayed right. I lost that I lost the person that I was I I lost a part of my life There's just so many things that were coming through and in this period of grief It's and I was saying to you and I I think I said this to you in our conversation off air And this is why I wanted to talk about this on my channel because I'm hoping that this will help people Understand the process of getting out of an abusive relationship. For example, it's this I mean kelly was like the warrior who decided this little contract to do this in a very public way But a lot of people go through it in their private lives, you know Like I think I told you tell me I was in a very narcissistically abusive relationship for my Ended in my early 30s and I had gone through many abusive relationship till it culminated to one night where I was strangled And I had to call 911 and even You know even the mind scrambling after I had that experience for a long time. I kept thinking. Oh my god. What did I do? To invoke that I kept bringing it back to how is this my fault because the person who had done this to me Had presented himself in a way that wasn't accurate So I I and I think and I hope that makes sense Like when we're looking at people like keith raniera for anybody watching like an abusive husband You've left or wife you've left or a company you've left You're given this this version of this person The leader or the person you're in a relationship with the CEO of business That is appealing to you at the time that's part of the love bombing process And so this projection of this person through your own Your own belief system is created and then when that falls down It's almost like you're mourning a death Like that the person of the person and that is so and I hope that makes sense And maybe we can talk a little bit deeper on that because I know that from a not from a cult perspective But from an intimate relationship perspective Where and I know this is so common with narcissistic abuse anyway, where they present You know, they start with the love bombing and so they've created a side of themselves in order to hook you in And it's I mean, it's so difficult, isn't it kelly to let go of that? Well, the thing is when you have built this Ideology or this this meaning around something that you're doing in your life And then you realize that it was a maybe not good for you or b was completely bogus, right? Then you're left with what? Nothing you're left with having to rebuild your identity rebuild your life rebuild the meaning in your life all of that And that is a transition But during that period of time and you're letting everything go and you haven't figured out who you are yet You're you're learning who you are through this Experience, but there is that kind of lag time where you're questioning everything about yourself. Who am I? Where am I going? What am I doing? Why am I doing this? And that's a lot of times when the grief is there as well because It's all mixed together. Yeah, and so when you leave an abusive relationship or something like a cult it it is very very difficult to Sit in that space and be to understand that this is actually good for you Right because you almost want to sometimes go back like Leaving nixiam. I know this sounds crazy. It wasn't I didn't happen overnight It happened over a period of time and I was letting go But there were many times in the first probably a year where I was questioning myself and this is before keith was Arrested this is before I had all the solid information about him Where I thought gosh, maybe I made a mistake Maybe I should go back and that happens a lot in abusive relationships You start to second guess yourself because you don't know who you are without That situation be at the cult the abusive relationship. You don't know who you are So you're like this almost I want to say a little lamb You know you're trying to figure out which way to go and sometimes The other stuff that was so bad is more comfortable than a discomfort you're sitting in not knowing who you are Does that make sense? Oh, absolutely And this is why I mean I told you kelly. I told you this on the phone And I don't know if I've said it on air before but you know, I watch all of these survivors of I mean, I'm fascinated by human psychology I'm fascinated and we know and I've said this before human beings and this is what Another reason why I want to talk about this because I see so many people react to stories like nexium or Scientology or anything and they're like I would never do that. It seems so black and white when you're very Far removed from the situation, but what people are understanding is the humanity that's involved and One thing I noticed about you kelly before I reached out to you was out of all these survivors of these of these cults A lot of them had like backed away from spirituality completely, which I totally understand I want to make that clear I get healing processes have to happen that I get that but something very interesting about you kelly was that you You kept that part of yourself That was very connected to to source to spirit to you know, whatever you want to call it god Whatever you want to call it There was that part of you that kind of and I think in a lot of ways that's what really From an outsider looking in catapulted you into this amazing healing journey that really sucks I mean it really it's really hard to go through To go through that breakdown and I wanted to I really wanted to really focus on that because that hinge Of being out or being in and then being out. It's not just an open and shut. You're right. It takes and this is why So many people stay in abusive relationships This is why so many people stay in businesses longer than they should Why it takes if somebody's in a cult you can't just go and yank them out It takes they have to be willing to leave and it takes deprogramming It takes all these years of real work in order to sever those ties Emotionally within the person it's easy for me as an outsider look at keith ranieri and go this guy is gross disgusting psychopath But when you've been groomed and molded It's it's they're pulling out a part of yourself To mirror back to you in order for you to stay around and so it is a part of yourself that has been exploited And that's why the these stories are so unbelievably Incredible because it duck kelly is an example of the human resilience And so let's do you mind kelly if we can we kind of go piece by piece Through the grieving process and I know we kind of spoke about your leaving nexium in the prior episode Which again if you guys want to hear the full story watch the episode But let's let's go piece by piece when you we know that you You were about to kind of be inducted into dos weren't you right when this whole thing Which I think you have the most badass fear guys out there I know I do I really do Back it's like you dodged a big bull. I mean you kind of you were like this close to having that brand put on you too Yeah, yeah, I do have amazing guides I I really do because all throughout nexium I was very close like behind you know A doorway away from some pretty bad stuff that was going on and so I was being recruited into dos and At the time when they started to ask for the collateral and the collateral was something that you would Give to the person recruiting you to keep It a secret so to keep it confidential now. I didn't know what I was trying to keep confidential I just knew there was a women's group that they were inviting me into I knew nothing else about it and when they asked for collateral I felt like You know that that just caught my attention, right? I knew that I didn't want to now involve my family I didn't want to give something that could be later come out that wasn't good Because they said you could make things up if you didn't have anything for example a piece of collateral might be writing a letter about Let's say a family member abusing another family member or and that was just the beginning of the collateral And it got a lot worse after that apparently with a lot of other people so At that time my All the bells and whistles sort of went off in my body I wasn't really listening to them, but I was listening just enough to know that let's put this off So I put it off long enough A couple of weeks and then it all it all came out so um Back to your question about the process So it took another year for me or maybe 90 or maybe about eight months. I guess to really Figure out what was going on Maybe not quite that I made about six months to figure out really what was going on and then to decide to leave because We didn't know anything really about Keith. Everything was being kept secret We didn't actually have the information until he got arrested so I ended up not joining DOS But one thing that a lot of people say is that how could you even have thought about it? Well, I don't even know whether I would have done it or not Because it's not that black and white and that's what I wanted to back up because that's what I was actually thinking that people Be like, well, you know, you saw collateral. You had why didn't you you run? Well, I want to like I guess we could step it back even further Because we've had conversations offline about and I know this through narcissistically abusive relationships Where you are conditioned anytime you have like a weird feeling about something in a toxic relationship That weird feeling is going to be Like gas lit and just dismissed and so you don't find security Where you might have had security in yourself before the before it be introduced to the abusive person Whatever whatever form that might take now that security system is not Sturdy anymore because you've been In literal terms with gas lighting people make you feel like you are crazy for having Doubts or having suspicions And I know we've kind of talked offline Kelly about like even Let's say like you're in a group and with a bunch of nexian people and you see something that's weird And you went to another member and said hey This doesn't seem right How would they would have they would have reacted in a different they would have been like you need to work on yourself Or like they wouldn't have actually listened to what you were saying correct and so Right. Yeah, so so much of that that happened in nixium was gas lighting And it was basically making you doubt and trust in yourself, right? So your intuition was they were telling you intuition isn't scientific because the curriculum was based on scientific data, supposedly And intuition's not scientific. Can you prove it? So they'd get you to start doubting your intuition start doubting trusting yourself Did you really see what you thought you saw you're asking a question about so and so let's say Keith Did you really see that and how do you know that was true? So they start to get you to doubt yourself and not trust yourself anymore And then your intuition is always with us, right? But we can not let we can decide not to listen to it So all those things were happening the same with an abusive relationship It happens over time and so you start to not see you may see a red flag, right? Once you see you might think something's a red flag You Couldn't start to doubt that it was actually there, right? So especially if all of your tools now are being suppressed So when people say how could you like we're teaching people now about cults We I didn't know what the red flags were going into this situation Now I know what the red flags are now I cannot unsee them and what we're doing All of us are trying to teach people about those red flags so now they can see it going in but we didn't have that We didn't have this conversation. These conversations were not happening around the time I joined nixxiom So and that is and guys again, I want to hit this home This doesn't even all of these things that kelly is describing even though it happened to her on a really big Big platform with like in it within a cult These are all the same things that happened to me and my narcissistically abusive relationship in a different and as a more intimate package And that is what it's so that and I we were talking on the phone We're talking about like judgment discernment and with with with judgment You said it beautifully We have to look at it as discernment rather and with discernment I think there does come that element of compassion of having compassion for people understanding that human beings are really complex creatures and And yeah, if if you had signed up the first day for nixxiom and all of a sudden somebody's like give me some collateral for You probably would have been like What did I just sign up for? You know, I'm going back to orange county, you know, like you probably Exactly They're smart psychopaths are smart that way like they're not going to hit you with the hard stuff in the beginning They're gonna almost it's almost like they're fishing They and I know the children of god They called it flirty fishing where you're holding people in through through forms of like love bombing And something that's unique with love bombing is a lot of times what they're doing is they're mirroring aspects of you That are really great aspects of yourself And that's what you're seeing in them is actually that reflection of you And so you get to the place and it's it's just amazing That through all of that that resilience where you were like I don't like this collateral business because all of a sudden other people are now involved In your decisions without their own without their consent But when we were talking on the phone like about getting um branded In like what what would you do? I mean, I've heard so many people say like I would have run I mean, you don't know what you would do. You don't know what you would do in that situation with that type of like mind control and brain when this is your Your family your your community, right? These are people you trust that are sitting there butt ass naked In a room with you, right? These are so so we don't you don't even know. I mean, thank god. Kelly. You didn't make it that far I personally I don't think I would have been able to handle it, but I don't know that for a fact I really don't um I like to say that I I would have figured it out But because those tools I was talking about intuition trusting the self all of that Were so Minimize that I'm not sure I would have listened to myself. I don't know. I really don't I do know that the collateral was definitely a big flag for me and enough to make me take pause I do know that So had I gotten further in and given collateral and then was asked to do more things You know, maybe I would have run and said take my collateral. I really don't care tell everyone I'm a fraud whatever I had decided if I had decided to do that So I might have just said take it and go or I might have gone farther No, don't don't do that And I might have felt a lot of peer pressure As well from the people around me that were like, oh, come on. We're doing this You can do this You want to be more measurable and accountable and more badass? Do you want to do this and you know, so I might have I don't I really don't know But now I know what I would do. Yeah, I have I now know never to Ever minimize those tools that I have that I know are my my trust in myself and my intuition I now know that I have to learn the hard way, but I now know and I think a lot and I was thinking though I would rather I'd rather be branded than be forced to sleep with Keith Reneary. That's for sure I know that but I would rather take that branch than have to get naked with him So hi Keith if you're watching from prison So Yeah, I'm brand-manning day over that man But um, but no, it's it's and you think about that is and I'm saying that jokingly But there were women that were forced to do things with him that they under their under the right circumstances They never would have done You know and it's and it's that that you're right and you see that you can see in the eyes Especially when you watch the brilliant documentaries that you've been a part of and they show pictures from that time You see you see it behind their eyes that there is something something's gone Some light went out Right. There's a light that's been burnt out and luckily for a lot of these women now you can see that light's back But but that's that that light that's burnt out now one thing So, you know Keith Reneary is was the head of this organization He was kind of like I know you guys called him vanguard Which I want to be very clear about this with traditional spirituality traditional practices The role of a guru so and yoga we would call it a guru Which means turning a master teacher basically some turning darkness to light or teaching you how to turn darkness to light Here's the big catcher two guys Gurus don't call themselves gurus The students call them guru They don't give themselves that name But keith gave himself that name right he that he himself that and that's a big big red flag in the spiritual community If somebody introduced himself to you as a guru Run the other direction because that's that's something Who we call guru. Do you never called himself that the students lovingly called him that right? But with keith I was asking you because you know You said I think on my my episode other Other episodes whether people that and this is such a big like whoa like got punched for me as well When you talked about that moment, I think you were reading the frank report And you just had this visceral like knowing All of a sudden that keith was evil Can you take us back to that point again Of when that hit you Yes, so about two weeks after I've been asked for collateral I was at home. I was just I'm chilling out probably on my computer and I got a phone call on whatsapp from canada from another member who said I'm sending you this link and you need to click on it, but don't tell anyone I sent it to you it's the frank report and If you tell me one that I sent it they'll come after me So I'm thinking what are you talking about? So I thought okay, she's somehow lost it hang up the phone And of course I click on the on the link because I can't not and it comes up the frank report Which at the time we all knew or we thought that the frank report was all bogus and was trying to take keith down And trying to close nixium and was basically our enemy And I'm reading this article about women being branded. I'm like, what is he talking about and they're naming a few people that I know This is not happening. And then I see the word collateral and then everything sort of clicked for the moment they clicked and I remember thinking that's what she asked me for so I called her the gal that had been recruiting me And I asked her if this is what she was trying to um Bring what groups she was trying to bring me into and she said yes And I just remember slamming the phone down and thinking to myself. Oh my gosh, and I sat there and It literally came from my right side all the way through my body was this wave Of knowingness that I've never felt before just it was complete 100% knowingness Keith is evil and it went out my body and then came back through and I was Literally just I couldn't believe it happened. So I'm sitting there now you have to remember I was totally indoctrinated into nixium So the thought that Keith is evil was going against everything I believed 100% But it still was there. So I I did take pause and I thought about and I thought I can't believe I had that thought That is just so weird and then I went along with the process of trying to figure out kind of what was going on And again, it took a while. So it didn't just like oh, Keith is evil and I'm done No, it was just like oh wow and then What I think was happening was my body and my intuition was coming up to the surface in a big way Yeah to wake me up, which it did for the moment and then It was like my guides It was everything coming through all at one time because it really shook me up And that programming then back up programming and I came right back I wanted to start with that as well because that is And I want everybody to put themselves in kelly shoes for a moment in your own life This is a person that you perceive to be like your teacher Kind of like your you like your guru like this guy that's meeting with the Dalai Lama and he's so ethical and he's so good And you know all these things that you have perceived for a long this is like your life. This is your business This is your community You know, this is your I mean you're lucky kelly. You did have family outside of it But this is this was everything You knew in your world that you had self set up for yourself These are people you loved and then to all of a sudden be hit with this realization and then to reject it You know, that's that survival instinct and I I remember because I know I know you said it took you it took a while to leave and you were at the trial You're at some some of the trial, correct Yes, asked you on the phone because when I was preparing to do my first interview with you before we were friends I watched the vows to do is multiple times right multiple multiple times Just to really hear what these people were saying to have a better perspective and it hit me watching it There's I don't know if it's I think it's in the vow where they're playing the recording of Keith Reneire speaking to Alice and Mack about the branding Yeah, and it is so sadistic And his voice is so calm And so arrogant and the way he's speaking about this and it hit me and I thought As someone like kelly who knew Keith Keith Reneire What was your reaction to actually hearing this recording? Now I I didn't hear that recording until everyone else heard it when it came out on HBO Um, I think there was they alluded to it in some of the court trials part of the trial that I probably wasn't there Um, and I had read the documents. So I never actually heard it until HBO came out and The whole series for me was learning things that I didn't know putting pieces of the puzzle together Yeah, I knew a lot, but I didn't know everything. So hearing his voice say that because there was always always a little part of me That was always thinking that maybe Maybe Keith's intent wasn't all as bad as we think it was There was always that little bit that you know, maybe Maybe this just got out of hand. Maybe, you know, I knew he was bad. I knew bad things happened I wasn't doubting that at all But when I heard his voice the way he said it and what he said was like no no doubt in my mind His what his intent was this did not get out of hand. This was all true This is not something that you know, he made a mistake. He intended this and so it was a very watching the valve for me was So, I mean, I didn't miss an episode. I was waiting for it to come on because it was filling in the blanks for me like Incredibly so were there ever moments watching where you felt that those gut punches? Oh, so many times So many times were I just was like, oh my god. I knew it. I mean seeing Nancy speaking Um on the vow to and just hearing what she had to say when Nancy and I worked with Nancy a lot and so hearing her speak and Oh, it was incredible. Yeah the vow to actually the second part was even more Impactful for me. Well, that's I want you guys to think about that because for us as viewers We can hear the recordings of Keith Ranieri And if you haven't watched the vow you you absolutely should it's an hbo and seduce and branded and brainwashed I'll put all those links down in the description box But to hear I mean he was such an arrogant fool That he recorded every like all the they have all these recordings in his own voice of what he was planning to do And as somebody who's not in the situation when I heard that recording It was like this guy is a psychopath like this And he's so calm in the way he speaks about this branding And and realizing what he's asking human beings to do To their own skin I don't even like seeing it done to animals like to see a human being and to have them do it to each other and just this the sadism behind it and It for me as a human being I I was like I I can't imagine That feeling for these women and these men who trusted this man It's one thing to to see the the warrants for the arrest to see the court filings and to have those moments of like well Maybe they are just after him. Maybe there's a misunderstanding, but to hear him say those things in his own voice That's where like You know a lot of me to road. It's like that's where you're like that's him saying and how heartbreaking that must be This is someone you trusted. This is someone that you you thought was helping the world You know and and to hear someone and I'm not saying guys and I really again I want you guys to listen to this for yourself because people are allowed to make mistakes. Like it's not like he accidentally like Rear ended someone with his car like it's not this is like a very Sadistic thing to do to brand somebody, you know with your initials um And and I just I just at one moment. I just felt like this heartbreak for all these people Who trusted him and to hear that Come out of his mouth Yeah, and and seduced the four-part series on stars Also has some him speaking some pieces about some other things which I don't even want to talk about on youtube You'd have to watch stars to see it. Um It is in it was an incredible process of how they were able to get all these Things about him So again seduced came out around the same time the vow came out vow one and they all kind of cover different parts of things they're both amazing documentaries and So that was one sort of level of processing after the actual trial and then came Like almost a year and almost maybe a year over a year later came out the vow two With even more information of like who's doing what now So again, you have watching those you can kind of see the process of other people what they're going through getting out Of the cult as well as processing their new lives and everything else. So again going back to that Leaving a relationship or community or a cult for example Takes a while it takes a lot of information a lot of input a lot of layers And it takes a long time to get through it. It's been four years now almost five years And still things come up for me Just like anything else anybody else's experiences. So what I would say would be Any experience that we go through no matter how traumatic just be easy with yourself and allow yourself to go through those layers uh Acquire the information and the knowledge and apply it without judging yourself and not judging others for going through it either That's what I was gonna in any situation. Yeah, that's um, you know, it's easy to be We we come to earth school. We come here to planet earth to experience friction, right? That's why yeah That's why we were the dumbasses that signed up At the first night I was telling Kelly on the phone. It's like I'm really hungry games. I've lost your interview Note to my guides next time I try to do this. Stop me You're go to be this this time you're fine Um, and that friction, you know, it's it's so easy to be an onlooker Into place judgment on people for the decisions that they've made or what they I mean I see this with the Scientology people all the time like they literally thought they were saving the planet You know people who signed up for nexium I guarantee you 99% of the people with you and nexium were fully sold empathetic compassionate people Totally who wanted to help And wanted to help themselves and then help others to to create a better existence for all of us same thing with the Scientologist same thing with a lot of the religious people like it's they're crying They're they're coming from a place of sincerity Where they want to you know, I don't think a psychopath would very easily join a cult because psychopaths Usually start the cult because they can't get anybody else to praise them otherwise Right like Keith rnary couldn't get anybody else in the bed with them unless he started a cult so So, you know, but they don't have that desire to truly Invest in humanity. They don't have the desire the the empathy and the compassion or the love That they want to see the world a better place And so you do have to have that compassion with yourself and with other people when they're coming out of this situation Now let's say kelly that somebody's watching right now and they have a friend or a sibling Or a child that's in a narcissistically abusive relationship, which again as andrew gold said is the cult of one What would be the best approach for people to take with somebody or in an organization that might be high control How does how do people as somebody who would you have reacted if someone came in and said kelly, you're in a cult I'm taking you out right now. What would have happened? Well, of course I people did actually question whether I was in a cult or not The cult I'm you know, I'm totally fine. And if someone tried to actively remove me What are you doing? You can't do that. I'm perfectly fine. I'm happy here There's no problem Because there wasn't a problem for me right even though there were things going on that I didn't know about There wasn't a problem for me. I didn't see it and so anyone who's in one of these relationships or communities or organizations that are cult like first of all The flags which I'm happy to send to you if you want to post those or whatever you want to do Those flags go for narcissistic relationships as well and for cults And so trying to get help someone get out. You don't just like maybe send them the Flags, but you can recognize the flags and realize there's an issue here and then it's a matter of getting help and The help that's usually available for something like that is it's like an intervention Just like you would have in alcoholics anonymous similarly only with different resources And seduce documentary calm Has a whole list of resources so cult D programmers authors speakers People who are involved in the therapeutic part of this all the resources are there on that website seduce documentary calm And there's other resources many places But you can at least get the names of people Who are involved in in this type of thing of helping people get out of cults and abusive relationships And that's a good place to start Yeah, and I will say too it's it's you have to understand the fragility of someone's mind at that point Especially if they're in a in a romantic relationship An intimate relationship with a narcissist And from my experience the worst thing you can do Is to abandon that person to be like i'm just not going to be around with you because you know because they're going to need you Um, and they're going to need to know that they have a support system when when they do finally decide to to take control of the situation and um, I know you know With romantic partners sometimes that might even be of a bigger clutch because there is intimacy involved That's not going to be the same and and maybe um A community center or something else that's not that's not The intimate part of that person's life And I see that a lot of people that have like siblings or friends in an abusive relationship get really frustrated with with the person That's being abused but that also is going to add to the stress that that abused person is under and And you know, it's it's um, it's it's it's a very I mean fucked up is the only way I can really describe it with the with the way that the mind has been Basically the the the narcissist the cult leader or the the partner has put that person in a position Of needing the narcissist of the cult leader And so you have to understand that and so even though, you know, they don't need them They think they do and that's right and yeah And they don't feel they need anyone else and so the the really key thing that that you just said is that You need to be there for them when they come around when they figure it out when they need help when they want to leave Because eventually hopefully they will and it's sort of like you can't you don't want to ever the one thing They always say is you don't want to lose contact With the person right and the way to lose contact very quickly is to accuse them of being in a Relationship and the person that they feel they need the most be at the cult leader the community or the relationship If you accuse that thing of being person or thing of being bad That's a great way to cut off communication with the person you're trying to help Yeah, so it's really key to stay in communication in any way with the person And then when they're ready you are already kind of loaded up with information and and resources and Things like seduce documentary.com page so that you know what to do right away as soon as that person asks for help You're able to call someone and I will say I have a friend here in atlanta janet my friend janet She's been my friend for a very long time. She's a she's older than me and with my situation with my ex Which was like 10 years ago at this point She had been through an abusive relationship herself. So she's out of every one of my life. She's the one that played it right She would come in and she would say things like, you know, he's really good looking but I can see what she really like about him, but I don't like the way he talks to you Have you kind of noticed maybe maybe i'm catching she would she never really put the blame on him But we kind of bring little things to me It's when the shit fit hit the fan and I had to call nine one one I I went to her house and stated her house She was the person I went to When I needed to get out because I trusted her because she never She never like blamed me or she never she always came from a place of being compassionate towards the situation itself And I will always forever be grateful to her for that because she understood that if she came in and said You're a freaking narcissist. You're treating my friend like shit. I'm not going to stand up I would have cut her off at that point. Sure. Yeah You know because he had already done his number on me. And so that is a really good example of not Don't victimize the victim any further than they're already victimized, right? So um, so it's it's um, That's really important and I know it's frustrating. I know people are probably watching me like but it's so I know it is I know it is it's it's but you know Everybody's on their their sole journey too and part of the this is coming out of that Now kelly at what point did you I know you're still in in aspects of healing But at what point did you feel like you were finally do you was there a day where you finally realized? You have Fully stepped away or did it come gradually where you finally were like I I could see this for what it is now Yeah, I think that came really gradually. I don't think there was any one moment I think the more interviews I do the more I write about it the more I speak about it The more I realized I'm okay, but We're all kind of okay Anyway, and I think that we believe sometimes that we're not and so my healing process is really just my journey Like my life journey, right? I'm when I came out of Of nixxiom. I didn't trust myself. I didn't trust anyone. I didn't want to have anything to do with anything and Then I realized after a period of time I was still a seeker like I still want the answers I still want to be a better person. I still want to grow I still want to do all these things. So I'm right back where I started again. However I'm not looking outside myself this time When I went into nixxiom, I was looking to someone else or something else to fix me Now I've learned that's never going to happen. I look inside myself For my answers. Yes, I'll go out and ask questions and decide does this make sense for me I'll use my critical thinking skills and say is this the right thing for me Does it resonate with me? My intuition does it resonate with me? If it doesn't I throw it out if it resonates with me I take it in and apply it. However, that makes sense for me But I never look to anyone else for my answer ever again. That's how it's different, but I'm still a seeker I still believe I still have faith Because you're not broken. You there's nothing to fix. No, you know that you're not you're you're a whole Sold person you're having a human experience. I was going to ask you about that because I found that with myself When I started going through trauma therapy, which for me Trauma therapy like I always say at this point. I'm really grateful for the experience that I had Because I loved trauma trauma therapy really changed me. It mixed with my yoga practice. It really that was a little moment for me But there was a time period where I didn't trust anyone I was constantly looking at people with a very critical eye looking for the next narcissist Um, I really any new people that came in this was long before I had a youtube platform I was very like that the moji where she's like this like I was very You know and I was like why did that person say they like my shirt? You know, I was looking for like love bombing everywhere because I was so sensitive Did you go through? Is that that's probably normal. Did you go through that as well? Kelly where you were? Yeah, I mean in the beginning, uh, I was looking at everything like afraid That it was a cult or afraid that this person was a little culty Now I look through the lens of my whole life as as Not looking for a cult, but my whole lens now Involves that part of what we're talking about that intuition and that Got feeling and does it resonate and everything else which is the same tool Those are the same tools. I would look at if I were looking at something Is it a cult? So for I don't go out looking for it But my lens is always open to see the flags that would Indicate that something's not right that it could be culty or That it's um, you know narcissistic or that it's um something that's trying to control me Yeah, that makes sense. Yes, and I was going to say because every body is different So for people watching right now like for me what you're saying because you do I did obviously come down from that And now now I know for me. I I know what to I feel in my body Do I feel like I have to walk on eggshells? That's one thing I looked my nervous system to tell me whether this is no good Um, do I feel like I'm walking on that shelf? Do I feel like I am Obligated to a certain organization or person. I look those are the two things for me that for my sense of self I know is being Tested again or pushed back into feeling obligated because it's an empathic person You know, you have the nar the world that dichotomy between the narcissist and the empath So that's basically what you're looking at with any type of abusive relationship You've got the keithrenary narcissist with all his little empaths around him, you know In a abusive relationship got the narcissist and the other lover the other person is the empath and so as an empath You are feeling a heightened sense of emotion And so you don't want to hurt anybody's feelings and so sometimes I think that Need to not want to hurt somebody else Filters through you being a little bit too accommodating to somebody who could then abuse that from you And so what are things with you kelly like what are certain things that you notice within your nervous system within your Your your psyche when something doesn't feel right like what's a tell-tale sign for you So when something doesn't feel right, I always feel it sort of in my gut I feel it in my stomach But I have made a huge practice of constantly being aware not hyper vigilant just being aware being aware of my Responses or my reaction my reaction. Am I reacting or am I responding? Is this person? Trying to Control me or am I feeling that they're trying to control me? Is it me or is it them? It's like it's I'm in a constant state now of awareness of my own behavior Right because that's the only important part because if you're aware of your own behavior Then you can decide where you want to go and what you don't want to go So if I am aware that I need to belong Right, I have this need everyone has a need to belong that's it's a human thing. But if I'm feeling today like Bryce, I really need to belong here talking to you If I'm aware of that need then I can be aware of when I'm doing things that go against myself in order to try to belong with you Does that make sense? And if I'm aware of that I'm willing to to say certain things do certain things Whatever in order to belong and I'm aware of that then I can say wait a minute I'm not going to react by doing these things. I'm going to respond by doing what's right for me and that might be Saying no or it might be Deciding to do something else. So for me, it's all about awareness and watching myself Respond to things or react to things or do things out of either fear or some kind of need that isn't healthy Does that make sense? Yes, I love that and I love and that's something too like when we look at like toxic Relationships versus healthy relationships. And this is in any relationship guys. This could be your employer This could be your best friend your lover your kid your sibling whatever in a healthy relationship. There are healthy Boundaries. I didn't even know what a damn boundary was until I went to drama therapy. I was like, what's a boundary? Wow, what are you talking about? You know and so when you have healthy boundaries like a healthy relationship, there's a mutual respect Of of these healthy boundaries of not forcing people to do something that they maybe don't want to do I'm not you know, not trying to control the other person of if if your friend says no I don't want to do that of being respect would be like cool. All right next time. We'll try something else You know, like, you know, there's a healthy response There's no, you know, and that's that's that tango between the narcissists and the empath because the narcissist is getting What they call narc supply from so Keith Rene for Keith Rene All of the people in nexium were basically his drugs. Those were his he was getting his sense of self from the accolade Of the impacts that were getting Having themselves reflected back to them with Keith. So you're right Kelly Like there is nothing outside of you because everything you thought that was whole about this person was actually your own Self being reflected back to you anyway You know and that's why yeah Narcissus can chameleon like he they can say, you know, you told me he was good with like like with repertoire Like he could kind of mimic you instead of being himself With everybody he kind of mirrored who he was talking to to To gain that trust that wasn't really there if that makes sense Right and you know people stopped giving themselves permission To take care of themselves when they were in nexium, right? They they didn't have permission to do what they knew was right for themselves and permission is a huge thing Like when you don't give yourself permission to Be okay or to do what's right for you or to to listen to your intuition Like if that's huge so awareness and giving yourself the permission to do that is is the those are the two things that I think For me have been the biggest have had the biggest impact in my healing Was those two you're talking about to take care I was thinking about season one of the vow. I think it was Bonnie who was giving her schedule Of what she had to do in a day Oh, yeah I mean, I would have I mean she ended up having health problems because of it But if you guys watch the value you'll see that but I I mean just to be able to say like if you're being run ragged to say no I need to sleep We didn't give our subs permission to do that because it was we were told we weren't allowed to So allowed to but that's it wasn't even saying we weren't allowed to I'm sorry. That's the wrong word It was we were told that if we allow ourselves to do that then we are somehow weak Not measurable. We're not putting in what we need to put in so we were constantly second guessing ourselves We're not doing enough So we never gave our permission our subs permission to eat enough or to sleep enough or to take care of ourselves We took that away and whenever you don't give yourself permission for what your body Or self needs you know, you're in a situation of being controlled by something outside of yourself Absolutely, and that is I think we've all touched You know been I mean my so my ex used to because I would get up Early in the morning to go to my sort like four o'clock in the morning So he would play loud music in the house all night because they do that self sabotaging to may or not Self but sabotaging on you to make you even more miserable When you have to get up and go teach my sore You know and I would have to get up early in the morning to go to work to go teach With the early morning my sore program and so I would be up all night hearing this blaring music and then yeah, and just They'll they'll do things like that to keep you into Into their control and you think about like well, what would keep have done if you had said no What would my ex have done if I just gone unplugged the music, you know, it's that I need to sleep I have to go work in the morning. I have to go teach. I have to go adjust people I can't be tired when I'm I can hurt someone You know and I laugh because I always say like my my yoga teacher in india is like the least culty of any yoga because like He gets he wants you to literally leave the mice room and go to bed and just sleep all night Because we're up so early in the morning He's so concerned that people are not getting enough sleep that he'll be like you go do you go home? Go to sleep actually he's very concerned. I'm like He's he definitely is not not doing these things to bring you away but even in like What bonnie was going through what I talked about with my ex these toxic relationships will bring the victim To a place of not mentally being able to make rash decisions either And so if you have someone in your life that's going through that you have to understand They're being sleep deprived. They're being gaslit to the point like kelly. You kind of started gaslighting yourself You know you kind of take over and start, you know, I've just I've done that. I have to catch myself like don't gaslight yourself You know, like, yeah, you know what you know, you know what you saw, you know what you experienced Um, and we gaslight ourselves all the time when we don't listen to our intuition, right? Our intuition is coming up saying xyz and we're telling it. Oh Is that real? I'm not really I don't know and so we're constantly doing that just with our our negative thoughts about ourselves So that's gaslighting. It's like totally you know what your reality is and you're it you're you're changing the reality of really What's happening by telling yourself? It's not or that you're not good enough. Whatever. It's it's all a version of that it's not direct gaslighting in the sense of somebody actually trying to change your reality, but you with your thoughts can do the same thing by Minimizing what you see things like that. So It's just it's really important to listen to that what you're got and because you know we know We all know what's right for us Absolutely all the time and I will say too. I'm thinking about it as well. Like I was thinking about there was with my ex I Reason why I got I got strangled because I found out he was cheating on me I confronted him But I'd found a letter that he had written to another woman that was a love letter that he had he hadn't mailed yet And when I confronted him with them, he first told me that it was a trick. He was tricking me to see if I would That's gaslight that that's changing the situation. But by the time you've been so mentally Abused You go. Oh my god. Maybe he's right. Maybe I'm a terrible person Do you want to see if I would read it when it was sitting on the kitchen table? Maybe I am a terrible person and when literally no it was a love letter written to and it was it was what it If it walks like a duck it cracks like a duck it's a duck Exactly and when we start to like not believe our own reality Because somebody says it's different and you know that that also is a process You know people have to understand and try not to judge when someone's in that place where they're willing to Really judge or let somebody else change their reality. It's because they've already been worn down to a place Where they don't They're no longer listening to their intuition They no longer trust themselves and so that's a process and not everybody gets there all at one time So that's where the judgment comes in. It's like instead of saying that's a bad thing just like well Just understanding that happens and be able to have some compassion and empathy for what if I were like that's like try that person on and say what if I were like that What if that had happened to me? How would I react? What would I do? You know, I might do that or I might not but I might Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I I and it's so funny Kelly because I we were talking on the phone earlier We're talking about the complexity of humans when I was in trauma therapy after I went through everything Um, we talked a lot about with my therapist. She would talk to me a lot about being codependent and independent and what does that mean and a lot of times we as humans will label people as just Codependent or independent but she explained to me and she said Bryce in all and all factors of your life You are incredibly independent You get on airplanes and fly to india by yourself You do all these things you don't need people with you when you do these crazy life things Like but in this one area you're totally codependent But you as an overall self are not and so this is where the complexity comes in with people because yes At this same time i'm going through this where i'm believing the lies about a love letter I'm also getting on an airplane by myself and flying to the other side of the world No, right So in the situation of the your your ex partner You believed you needed him to be okay in that part of your life But the rest of your life you were okay Knowing that you were enough for that part of your life to do whatever you needed to do And that's where I talk about if you need anything That's like an attachment right when we have attachments Where we have to have whatever it is to be okay Then that thing that we think we need to be okay is actually hurting us It's holding us back. It's keeping us from reaching our goals. It's keeping us from you know having joy whatever it is So that's where awareness comes in. Do I need this thing to be okay? Do I have to have You know whatever to be okay. Yeah, and you're totally right That's exactly because it's and in that moment when you think you need something When a person is in place for that they think they need something They won't question it They will believe the lies versus the truth because there's a need there. They think is real And they need to be okay. I need this thing to be okay if I don't have this thing I'm not going to be okay. You would have left him if you thought you were going to be okay Right, you didn't leave him until You realize that somehow I'm going to be or going to have to find a way to be okay without this I will tell you too. I um when when at first I'll happen and this is kind of goes back again to that idea with the Why it was so hard for people to leave Keith Ranieri everything that had happened with my ex they um I people had said you need a restraining order you need a restraining order and I was like no no no It's not that serious. No, I don't want to do that to him. I don't want to you know No, no, no, no, no, you know, I don't want to do I don't want to hurt him Well, after many many months. I was back in India And I got an email that a judge had just granted me a restraining order without me even asking Like the basically he said he said no, I'm gonna you cannot contact this person anymore And then I found out I had recorded towards the end. I started to record kind of like Keith Ranieri I started recording some of the conversations we were having I just Georgia is a one-party state. It's only one party has to be aware that I'm recording And I kind of did something I kind of feel like I got I got a little This is when I started to gain my power back at this point My ex was in a legal battle with his daughter and I sent his ex-wife all of the recordings And apparently apparently he can't see his daughter anymore without without supervision, so My power back in that a little bit, you know, you know That kind of gave me that little to take my power back and and protect his daughter as well. But um, you know, it's it's These people that are like this if it's a narcissist And neither Kelly nor I therapist, but it just in general if this is a narcissist This psychopath they are not going this one thing my therapist said to me too is When you are at when you are traditionally a healthy minded person now when I say a healthy minded person I don't mean that you're without any struggles or anything like that I mean that you you you have empathy you have compassion You are never going to understand the workings of an of a toxic mind You're never going to be able to reason and justify The workings of someone who is not healthy minded, which would be a narcissist or a psychopath And so their reasons for and I think that's what you're grappling with as well because you would never do something like this You would never try to control someone you would never want to hurt anybody Or scam anybody or keep anybody busy all day so they don't get sleep or brand someone That was why it was so hard to imagine that was as intense like because there was there was what was happening the reality of Really what was happening? We were being you know asked to do all these things But we thought it was for we were being told it was for our own good to grow and become more measurable and accountable So I couldn't imagine how somebody's intent could be to control us Even though I was feeling a bit controlled at at many times I always thought oh, I'm you know, it's for my own good, etc I never thought someone would actually do that Yeah, I just couldn't wrap my head around it. So even when I never do it No, I'm because whenever no when Keith came through like the whole thing with Keith is evil and went back out again It was like oh, he couldn't possibly that I just I couldn't wrap my head around it Yeah Now I can but and that's a big thing too when you're looking at it If you're if you yourself are coming out of an abusive situation or you know somebody who's in it You have to understand that that person is viewing This abuser through the lens of their own reality And so they are questioning their own reality because they would never treat someone The way that they've been treated and so they're trying to justify it Right. They're trying to justify why this person is doing this, right like Keith Ranieri. Oh, he's doing this to help us When reality, no, he was doing it because he's a psychopath, right? He he it was all about that And that takes a long time doesn't it takes a long time to process That this person isn't good It took me a long time to process that my ex wasn't good that he was a bad person The thing is is that we can't actually envision what it would be like to be like a person like this Like what they could actually be but we also what I had to determine for myself Was that there are people out there that are like this even though I don't understand it Even though I can't actually imagine doing this I had to wrap my head around that there are people out there that will do this and that was really hard for me Because then you have to really admit there is there's evil out there and that was hard for me I didn't want to look at that But now I know there is I still not want to know what it feels like or how they see things But I have to admit that they're out there and I have to be aware of them And I will tell you Kelly. I don't know if I told you this on the phone or not 50 so the cassiopean say that 50% of the earth is made up of organic portals people who don't have their upper chakras And these people can be influenced very easily by negative Forth density beings Closer you come to self-realization the closer you come to enlightenment The more organic portals are sent to you to try to derail you So great Again, I'm gonna have to speak to the manager of when I die I'm gonna I want to speak to the manager because somebody allowed me to come back here Like was that really in my highest good? I'm gonna be the Karen of the of the cosmos and be like let me speak to the manager about the situation Wait a minute. Wait a minute. This is not the deal Nobody's in as a manual So I want to be aware of that as well from a spiritual Which we talk a lot about the spirituality on on on this channel as well and Kelly and I we've talked a lot about spirituality off offline too When you are on a path of which makes sense to me when I look back at my time with my ex I was on a hardcore path. I was going to india I was on the road to becoming the only female authorized in the state of georgia was a big deal So obviously a big wrecking ball was sent in to try to derail that Right with Kelly same thing now the beautiful thing about my dog is agreeing now the beautiful thing is that um Is that if you are a sold? Let me just shut the door My dog is the sheriff of the neighborhood. How dare another person walk by my house how dare The bushes outside But if you're a sold person and you make it through you survive a wrecking ball like Keith Reneire I mean not only have you pissed the darkness off even more But you yourself are freaking badass because you took that bullet and you heal and you used it, right? You used it to even bet to what the devil. What do they say what the devil will make for bad? God will use for good You know, you use that friction to better yourself, you know to make yourself even more Accessible as a I consider you to be a healer Kelly honestly Like I think that's in your dna is that you are a light worker. You are a healer. You're a rakey master This was something that could have if you had not been Made of the substance that you're made of as a soul. This could have just totally uplifted And do you feel like do you feel secure in that that you like I am freaking wonder woman like I The devil I've met him volleyball No, I might have met volleyball. I love that. I did beat him at volleyball. Um, I Don't feel like a badass. I feel like I'm like every other human being out there just sort of You know trying to find my way. I feel like I have these experiences that have can help me to help other people I think everybody has experience that they can turn into wisdom to look back on to help Everyone so I mean was it 20 robbins was saying something about You know, he's fed a billion people through his organization through his philanthropy and You know, he said it started with a couple one or two and every day he wakes up and he says What can I do today in my family in my community in my friendship circle where I can help do Help someone be better do better help them So it's little things that we do In our in our surroundings that's going to make the world a better place So do I feel like a badass? No, I feel like I get up every day. I struggle just like everyone else But I do take the opportunity whenever I can and I have the intent To always help when I can So that's but thank you for saying that you see me that way that She's she's got her Wonder Woman costume hidden off camera guys So little badass. I mean it really must piss Keith off. He's got I mean literally next scene was full of gorgeous women like Drop dead beautiful women and now he's like sitting in prison. They're all just taken off and doing in their things and like, you know, ha ha ha ha ha ha that's uh, you know So, you know, I'm sitting here and I'm thinking like if I I'm going to ask you this to kelly Like if I were to give somebody advice about if they have a family friend who's in a toxic situation My advice to them would be to tell that person that you understand You love them and you'll be there for them whenever whenever they're ready What would you tell somebody who's we're dealing with someone in their life who is in a toxic situation? I think it's just to be patient to stay in contact with that person as much as possible Don't rock the boat Don't uh argue with them because the moment you argue about their reality, then you're gonna they're gonna push you away So it's really being in a holding pattern and educating yourself about what you can do when the moment is right so when the person asks for help asks for help or comes to you or Um is in a situation where they're open to help then you're ready But you can't force someone to do something. They're not ready to do It doesn't work that way because we're all human beings We all have rights and and they can just not they can just cut communication with you So I think that's the most important thing is education for yourself And I would say that definitely you guys watch seduced Because you kind of see that with Catherine oxenberg in india whereas Catherine kind of does push it a little too far Sometimes and it causes the pullback from india So it's a we thank god she didn't give up because she literally got her daughter out But but you can kind of see that push pull dynamic with them with her daughter stuck in this situation So and I will put that link down below as well because and you want to and I would say so if the person comes out Of a cult or out of an abusive relationship You probably the first thing you say is probably you don't want to be like I told you so right Never never No, no, I think that what you want to do is reestablish that relationship build the relationship support them Help them to find the right resources as they go through this process, which it's going to be And it's never I told you so because Even if you were to say that you really don't know like you haven't been through it and you don't know that You wouldn't do it We always say we wouldn't get caught in these things but some we do we get caught another thing So every human being on this planet makes mistakes they fail. So who are we to say I told you so Because we're failing in other parts of our lives. I don't know anyone out there who isn't if there are I'd love to know them Yeah, that's the we come here. We come here for that friction We come here we come here to to fail sometimes in order to grow from that that darkness that that instability that comes from that experience and um And that's what I love about I'm going to share your book again on the screen here kelly You guys you guys really should order her book. Um Because it's it's it's the power of owning your story without shame or blame and that's kind of what we're kind of talking about here as well is that um is that You are able to come forward and say, yeah, I went through this horrific thing and it was hard and it was complicated and human beings are hard and human beings are complex and complicated And um, and this is what I learned from the experience. And so I would absolute you guys I will put this down in the um description box below um to understand and especially we're we're at such a peculiar time In our world history right now with we've got so much going on on both sides of the coin and and every and I'm over here Like let's just go over here into our own thing like ignore them. Um There's a there's a lot of friction in our lives and it's it's interesting for the first time I'm 40. So the first time in my life. I'm seeing a time period Where it's almost like you're really seeing this aggressive idea of cult really everywhere Because people I mean when I when I was a kid and maybe social medias to blame for this people were friends with all sorts of people Democrats and republicans were friends christians and budists were friends You know, and it wasn't that big of a deal because we all had our there was beauty in our differences And now it look it seems like People are so obsessed with having people agree with them 100 percent That there is no room for discussion. There is no room for discernment understanding and non-judgment And so um as gondi said be the change you want to see in the world So be be the person that you want to see in the world that person that's going to lend a Helping hand to a human being That's distressed because all those labels everything we have in our world. Those are just illusions anyway That's just an illusion anyway So you are a sold person and you are here on this timeline with all these other beautiful souls you all Whether you believe it or not. I know I believe that you all came down here together to do this together So so see that beauty in someone see see the see and that pain, you know that thing about people coming out of a situation like nexium The ashtanga practice which kelly's been doing is very hard and can be very painful And david gharig at my original teacher david gharig asked gharugi once in conference gharugi is is this pain necessary? And he said yes Because pain is real It's real It doesn't matter whether you're rich or poor or black or white or Asian or female or male or whatever gay straight doesn't matter Pain is real and that's something we can all Relate to each other. We know what it feels to have our heart broken. We know what it feels to lose somebody I mean we talked about that last time, you know, you You had this amazing group of people around you and I say that in all sincerity because they seem like pretty amazing people Besides you know, you just bop Keith out. You've got like a beautiful coming We did Now and that that that sincerity is still there because these were sold Beautiful people that wanted to do good and evil just got involved And and that pain is real for everyone and to be empathetic towards people who are going through that and I know for me kelly I I don't know but you would say but I would say if you are someone coming out of an abusive situation Whether it's a relationship or a cult definitely take some time to be with yourself on purpose be with yourself To get to be kind be kind to yourself And it's it's um It's hard to do but if you can be kind to yourself and kind to other people that's I start it's so funny I always start you know when i'm feeling really uh having a bad day or i'm just feeling I'm like, who can I help? Who can I call? Who can I reach out to what can I do? I find if I can be kind to someone else and I find it easy to be kind to myself It should be the other way around but I find that it really helps to be able to reach out and do something get yourself out of yourself and be kind That is the transmission of energy because energy cannot be can can either be created nor destroyed it just is And so what the only thing you can do is trans is transmute it and you're right That's so beautiful like when you're having those days where you just want to punch a hole in the wall Go out and buy someone lunch, you know You know go If you can't afford that go find someone and tell them they look beautiful in their dress or You know, it's it's um, there's um, okay makes me emotional There's this great slide show that's been going around the internet for a while now And this photographer pulls people and he has them sit down and he sets his camera up And he takes a picture of their still face and then he says you're beautiful and just to see their smile It makes me so much talking about it. Yeah, he says you're beautiful You see their smile, you know just to tell somebody something that kind Yeah changes everything, you know, it really does And those are the things i'm talking about that's how we change our world It's you know, you do it a little at a time whatever you're capable of doing if everyone did that our world would change And so it's yeah, there's there's so many levels of of us as human beings and what we can do But again, it goes back to awareness you're constantly aware of what's going on with yourself And who you want to be Because when you're aware then you can decide who you want to be and when you're aware You decide who you want to be and then you decide how you want to respond instead of reacts It all kind of goes back to that all the time and that's and that's the witness as well We you're great at that kelly being a witness versus experience and that's amazing Well guys, I know it's I could talk to you forever kelly. I could just keep you I know it's so fun I can't wait to like see you in person one day I will have to I feel so blessed and i'm so grateful to you kelly and I feel so blessed on my channel All these people that I you know got in touch with to do shows with have truly become friends And I consider you such a good friend at this point. I feel like I've known you to me too And tomorrow I saw tomorrow which now you know tomorrow I saw her. I was like, I know that girl I saw like kelly. I was like, I think I know her I think I think we saw the same old contract Somewhere yeah, I think I remember when we were like, do we really have to do this? No, um, and I'm so grateful to call you my friend and you are and I'm so and I mean this in all sincerity I know we'll probably be talking about nexium for a few more episodes, but I can't wait to you You're not just kelly from the cult There's so much more to you that I've gotten the pleasure of getting to know over Over these the past few months that there's your reiki master You've got all these these stories these experiences that are have nothing to do with nexium And I can't wait for the world to get to see that side of you as well And um, I know um guys I I want to do I have this idea and I've talked I've spoken to jamie as well my olympiad friend of having a panel with Kelly Catherine and jamie because jamie and kelly have that in common where they went through a huge traumatic event publicly I laugh like publicly they had to go through a publicly Whereas a lot of us go through this stuff privately and to have that That conversation about what that's like to have uh, you know with jamie with her the olympic experience that she went through at like 24 Super young You know and where that propelled her in life And then I also I would love to have you talk about your reiki at some point as well And get into like the the the woo woo because the woo woo is the most fun Look at total anti-nexium and look all right. There we go. That'll be fun Screw your data screw your data. We're gonna go right into the cosmos There we go So yeah, exactly So once again guys, I'm gonna put a link to kelly's book her social media as well And um, and if you guys have any questions for kelly, leave them in the comment section below and we will um We'll address them because we I mean one of my favorite rom dos quotes is we're all just walking each other home So we're doing love that. Yeah. I love that quote I love rom dos. I know me too. You know, it's so funny. He died in december of 2019 at a very he's a very old guy He's very old age Love the very long life and I think that son of a gun he was like he saw 20 20 coming and he was like He's out. He died like in december of 2019 And he yeah, I think he's thought coming but or maybe not but it was his time But boy, I would have loved to have met him That is one person I would have loved to have met. He wasn't a guru. He was simply a teacher and He resonates so much with me and I go out and get I use his tools all the time and they resonate with me He's amazing rom dos. I I I agree with you. I think that I think he had gone through enough friction Where his soul didn't need to experience 2020 and he left a lot of us with very valuable tools Yeah, he had learned from his teacher his his guru in india in order for us to be able to move forward With these ancient teachings in a very he talked talk about somebody I mean, this was a guy who was harvard educator harvard teacher very smart But he spoke to every single person Like they were equal to his intelligence and that and from a very humble place talk about someone who who Who held compassion for humanity? He didn't judge others. He didn't look down on others, you know He he was brilliant at what he did. He was a very enlightened soul And so yeah, I always quote him We're all one of my other favorite quotes is treat everybody like they're god dressed in drag and drag I was just gonna say that one. Yeah, I love that and he said the other one I really love is um, if you think you're enlightened just go spend a week with your family That is like the ultimate testing ground, right? If you think you're enlightened, I mean he was just he had the best the best. He was the best Yeah, and I you know, I'll do it in the description box guys There is a youtube channel full of rom-dos's teachings It I will I will put that down in the description box as well because sometimes I'll just play a playlist of him Especially if I'm having a bad day, especially if I'm you know, he just had such a way of He always he would he would quote quote the hanuman which I have hanuman right here the hanuman From the ramayana where hanuman would say When I forget who I am I serve you When I know who I am I am you Yeah, and that's what that's that we we are each other. We are One soul collective consciousness here on this earth and that makes me emotional too when I forget who I am I serve you when I know who I am. I am you You know that that transcends race It's transcends everything it transcends religion. It transcends politics because Those are just form forms of the illusion of the matrix anyway We are soul people that that have energetic and emotional responses And that's what we have to understand about each other and not judge each other Because at the pure essence of our soul is unconditional love Yeah, yeah, well, thank you kelly. You're always so nice. You're just so gorgeous. You're just so beautiful So sweet. Yeah, so are you oh my gosh, and it's just been such a pleasure getting to know you and call you my friend I know I can't wait to be out in LA with you. I want so I feel like I You're doing a stonga I want what I want to do one day when I come back out to LA I want to go take a bar class with marnie alton with you Talk about a woman that will get you girl power will get you a feeling I want to go take that because I mean I just I'm like I want I want you to meet I would I She's really cool. I was like I didn't even love it Two cool ladies I love it Anyway, well, I love you girl and I cannot wait for you more. We will we will have way more episodes you guys I hope that was helpful again. Be be patient and kind kind with yourself. It's As my as my algebra teacher said in high school. No one gets out of this world alive Exactly We all got our own shit to bear. So so no judgment here. So all right you guys We will all we'll talk to you later. Bye everybody. Bye