 I mean the September 22nd meeting in the committee the whole will come to order and we will have roll call first Born here Bowie here Bowers Welcome back to Decker Gisha here Hanna excused Heidemann Ka Kittlesen excuse Clayunas here Montemay or excused Rangflesh, okay Suric here Vanduil Voo Wongamans here one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve All right, we have four let's have a pledge of allegiance, please I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America And to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Thank you, president born We will now take a look at the minutes from August 18th is there a motion to approve Okay, so moved and seconded to approve the minutes of August 18th any discussion Okay, all in favor. Hi anybody opposed Minutes are approved We really only have one thing on the agenda today, which is a big thing and it's the guiding document for the 2010 budget planning and budget Development and it's Was discussed or was presented as 1149 at last month's No, the first month's the first council of the September 1149 it explains the resolution the might say the Thought behind it some goals for the resident for the budgeting and also some specific Directions for city departments. So what I'd like to do tonight would be to discuss it This is something that we could amend or we can add But I would like it to be something where everybody who has some questions gets them answered or has some other information to give us okay, so We will open up the discussion to all the persons But I also will ask for any input from people who are sitting in the benches if they would like to as well So we'll do as much input as we can. Hopefully this will be taken care of it and now we're sorry Alderman bulk Thank You madam chair I just wanted to add to that intro that this will also be the guiding document the Sauer and grievance committee has Has voted and agreed that this document will be whatever final format gets approved will be forwarded on to the Labor Relations Bargaining committee that this will be the guiding document and that it will be their strategy They they will not be empowered to negotiate anything except something that is in alignment with this document So thank that's another important reason why this is we need to have this conversation I said one heck everyone have a copy of it does anyone need something to refer to Okay, it would be a one copy up here I Got it Thank You madam chairman My first question is Where exactly are you on the budget process as outlined by the city codes? Because I'm going to read you the very first one during a month of June each year Standing committees of the city shall meet with the appropriate department heads To project goals and objectives and including the ensuing budget year That's in June We have got this document that you just turned in which is the goals and objectives that was turned in on the 8th of September You're two months late already The question maybe Terry Hansen Finance director would you like to answer it from the point of view operations and why it isn't later? It is late later than usual. Yes Yes, the Later than the ordinance is provided and the part of that is due to the fact that we have to negotiate the three Con our eight contracts this year all the union contracts are up And then there was issues with the health insurance that we were trying to figure out what to do with that So that delayed everything from then on and then in actuality We changed the council voted to change the ordinance to allow the council to adopt the dates that all this stuff will be Provided for and those dates will be presented with finance committee this upcoming meeting to be forwarded on to the council from a just a standpoint of where the Staff has been at in working with this as we've received health insurance numbers that we feel pretty solid on right now So we can start moving forward in that regard Negotiation Initial meeting was met with with all of the heads of the unions to discuss some initial ideas and then From a perspective of operations The mayor has started again meeting for a second time with all the departments to go over what he would like to see them Implement in their budgets that will be coming forward very soon So we anticipate getting numbers in the next few weeks from the departments and it'll be coming to the council very shortly after that Are you saying like the month of October or you think yes? That is a goal by the end of October to have the executive budget submitted and technically that is Probably about three weeks later than what you would originally see so it's a lot of Leg work that the departments are putting ahead and condensing a lot of time It to get this work done. So it's what was normally allowed a four-month process We're trying to do it in about four to six weeks. Thank you See that's that's my that's my big concern. You're not following the process That's really outlined for you. If you were going to change it. You should have changed it back in June You're just kind of flying by the seat of your pants right now the Caliminary budget Was due owner own or before August 15th of each year each department or board except for the board of education She'll fire with finance director treasure and itemized statement the disbursements made to carry out the powers and duties of such departments or board preceding physical year and Detailed statement of their seats and these subbersements of accounts and special fund under supervision of such department board During each such year Also detail estimates of the same matters The current physical year for the ensuing physical year Such statements shall be presented In a form prescribed by the city finance director treasure and shall be designated as a department estimates What I'm saying here is There's nothing in here That says you can delay this Because you're going to start to negotiate with the labor contracts none. What's river? Thank you, that's why we did an ordinance change Lee On the council floor. What is the ordinance? I don't have the ordinance in front I would like to copy that if in addition, excuse me Lee in addition I'm sure you can get a copy from Sue Richards In addition Terry's a little bit modest what has been going on since the last 60 days or longer has been detailed and intricate meetings with each department head and budget sessions Where Terry developed a program and plan which each department Builds their budget from the ground up rather than in past experiences from the top down the numbers referenced in that have been as the ordinance prescribes It allows the finance director to accept those numbers and have those numbers in the form that he so prescribes he has been greatly involved with all the ordinance deals with with those numbers for quite some time and the department heads also have put in a huge amount of work in these work sessions on the budget As prescribed Okay, that kind of answers some of the questions, but it doesn't answer all it I still say you're not following the process. It's just outlined by our city codes Okay, do you have something else? Yes on this on this Hand out that printed out it has a bunch of different cities And their budgets and what have you but I believe in our in our in our code, but we have a Thing that we the comparison tables is only compared to Oshkosh the cross and I remember all Where we can only compare itself to a certain number of cities We can't put all of them together and then say divide that by the X number of things then come out with a figure Okay, okay Vice President Gisha actually Circulated this so maybe you can have his answer for why that was sent out. Sure. I actually just sent it out as as background On all the municipalities. There is no Coder regulation except from the standpoint of the Human Resources Department in using comparable communities for payroll That's in our that is in our and has been in our pay plan for a number of years Based on the disposition of the pay plan that's probably in question, but there is no Ordinance or actually past practice in determining our city of Sheboygan tax rate by a By a comparison of just specific communities. There is nothing having to do with the tax at all anywhere I understand that sir what I'm saying is in that code When you compare yourself you can only compare yourself to a sick about six cities only on an HR level not on a budgetary level Think that was Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much Alderman sir Thank you manager. I make an answer part of Lee's question There are nine comparable cities that we do we've used for arbitration And the state recognizes them as being like in kind communities They're not so much in population, but Excuse me They as they say like in kind and these cities include Bolloy, Wausau, Oshkosh, Appleton, La Crosse, Manitowoc, Green Bay, Fond du Lac, and Janesville And I took the figures that were presented in this chart here And I noticed that the summary that we were presented said that we percent were 8% higher than our peer group If we compare ourselves to our comparables actually Our comparable group is 7.94. It's compared to the city of being at 7.87. I would Prefer that we look at like in kind cities opposed to arbitrarily pulling out some cities with like a population Thank you Thank you like in kind cities is only used for human resources purposes for the setting of rates It is never used for the setting of tax rates ever anywhere on any one of these cities put all the way through You don't compare if that was the case we'd probably be at 99 percent human resources costs in this city But we don't that comparison is was in our pay plan It was in our code and to follow the pay plan It had nothing to do with tax rate zero zero nothing zero It had only to do with an HR function, which has nothing to do with the tax rate So combining those two has no that's like apples and grapefruit One doesn't have anything to do with the other Thank You madam chair the other the other The other reason why I think it's a good idea that Alderman Gishev picked out these surrounding cities is because I don't know if the word competition is the correct word But maybe it is these are the cities that we work We're competing with for for small businesses to be developed large businesses to be developed So these are communities that we are our in competition with and so therefore I think it's probably good We are comparing those Thank You madam chair We can and will have long vigorous conversations this fall with our friends in the negotiation bargaining units about What we should be paying our employees and those come comparable nine cities What great point president born and vice president Gisha have brought up is that? That's all well and good, but as we compete for growing the tax base We are competing with cities who have a 21 percent lower tax rate for their people and And so that is an important element our friends in the bargaining units may reject that logic completely but they are doing it at the peril of us as a growing city and and our ability to grow and Trek businesses that will pay higher taxes to the city because again population of the city and after the World War two was in The 48 48,000 ish and now we're 50 ish. We got a great big lake We're not gaining any more people and I don't see an appetite for a lot of us sucking up small communities to the south The north of us are to the west of us so our individual family tax base is not going to grow How are we going to grow the tax base? We bring more business How can you bring more business when they're going to have to pay 21 percent higher taxes if they come to our city? They're going to go other places are going to go to Plymouth. They're going to go to poor Washington and trivers Places like that. So thank you president born for bringing up that point. It is about competing and what I like about this Set of comparables that Alderman Gisha has put together is If we set our budget based on this And our pay is much much higher with those nine comparables that that all of them insert mentioned If our friends in the bargaining units say well, we don't care about your budget issues We want to talk nine comparable cities Well, then that just makes the conversation that much more interesting because our ability to pay if we stick with this and we Believe that our city tax our taxpayers are over tax Putting us in the top 10 or 15 percent of all communities in Wisconsin if they ignore that fact then that makes those negotiations much Less productive and much more complicated. Sorry to go on so long, but it's an important point All them insert first. Thank you Okay, hold back, okay Alderman Bowers Thank you, ma'am chairman Does anybody know what percent these nine cities or even the surrounding cities that are listed in purple? pay Their employees like we're at 82% Are the any of these other cities close to that or? Are they higher or I would imagine they're all lower percent of their budget. Does anyone know that? Would it help if I were to get some figures? I'll find us director. Yeah, it would help it would you have to present them to the council on that not they In October October 6th when we have the meeting as extra information I was just wondering if this would help in the bargaining. I don't know Well, well It would be could present a bargaining. I'm sure you know as part of their information Okay, I will try to have those figures for you in the next week or so. Okay. Thank you Alderman sir That kind of begs the point that owner mower brought up I one of the objectives of this proposal here is that we go from 85 percent Benefit wage level to an 80 percent level How do we fit I mean if we did the comparables with the tax rates that we do the comparable with With the other cost of the cities that we are we are a service organization here And and benefits and wages will be a large portion of our of our revenue And I'd be curious to know whether maybe the cities are at 90 percent, but I think it'd be curious to find out that information. Thank you Just as a point in the resolution it says that significant progress Be made toward financially sustainable pay benefit goal of 80 percent or or less of general fund expenditures It's a goal. It's not saying that it will be reached in this budget. So it's a goal Okay, Josie Josie Johnson want to come up to the mic, please? I just have a question about One of the goals and objectives item 3 it says with neighborhood needs throughout our city We feel special attention is warranted in increasing inspections and expanding code enforcement and I Support the intent But I wonder about the implementation I believe under the star resolution one of the building or housing inspectors was let go I don't know if those are the same people or not and So if that's the case, I'm wondering how you're going to do more with less Thank you excellent question an inspector was not released from the building inspection office an employee in that department Was so the actual guys would go out there and Alderman born and I had a meeting with the mayor this morning and this topic actually was one of them and I think you will see through his budget process coming forward a Plan that mirrors that very item to expand Via some and I don't want to give away his his thing But he has addressed it and actually has a fairly significant plan That I found compelling and Alderman born maybe would have a different opinion, but I Guess more to come I think it's up to the mayor to probably make that announcement is all I'm saying Okay, I have a question for my inst director Hansen When you was described working with the departments you've been working with them for weeks now Is this a zero-based budgeting type of process or not quite that drastic it? it is not a zero-based budgeting it is It's on its way to that that type of format what has been happening is and we start off with Looking at ideas not numbers and looking at what the goals and objectives are of each of the departments and where the department should be and look at opportunities that could arise for either more efficiencies gained or areas to look at providing services that could be charged for Until line communities or whatnot it all depends on on exactly what it is But it's pretty much looking at every possible realm of enhancing revenues or cutting costs and then based upon that then we the mayor looked at all of it put it all together and then is meeting with all of the departments again to Sit there and say this is where I want you to target and then then they're given the numbers to try to Put together their budget to reflect what the mayor is directing him and what he'd like to see accomplished All of them in Bowers, thank you. This is for Mr. Hansen to I see that we Have a figure here of 20 million nine hundred fifty thousand I thought our total expenditures were 36 million so could he explain the difference between the 36 and the 2020 million is this a tax levy The 20 million is the rest comes from the state the state and then fees charge for services like building inspection Okay, so this is just for taxes the 20 million correct and the rest of the tax and fees that we collect from other entities Okay Thank you, Terry a couple questions. I guess relating specifically to the resolution under the specific guidelines for the 2010 budget if if you could give us some background on Item one as to the effect of item one using a the tax rate versus the tax levy and What result using the tax rate based on valuations may affect your the total pot available in the checkbook, okay? When you set the tax rate what you're doing is you're setting what you figure is an allowable rate to tax the residents and That rate is then applied to the values of the home So if a hundred thousand dollar home and the tax rate is I think it's around eight point three one I think is 831 is this is based on market value or so So if it's 831 and then you multiply that 831 times the times the 100 and then that comes up with eight hundred thirty one dollars that the city would receive from that home if you And so if your values increase then you can anticipate spending more in taxes the following year based on the Factor on how the property tax structure set up the ability to pay is based upon the value of your home And that could be argued but if your home value goes on or if your business value goes down Then technically you would be paying less in taxes the following year so you could So basically it's based on the value if your value is going up There's a factor that you're more will have a greater ability to pay your value goes down You have less ability to pay whereas if you set the tax levy the levy the dollar amount itself You're saying this is the amount of taxes. We're going to collect and if that rate becomes nine dollars or if it becomes seven dollars We don't care. We need this amount of money in order to fund our services So that's the big difference is if you want to set it by a dollar amount or if you want to set it by the ability to pay Based upon the tax structure that's set up right now So based on as it's written currently That the mayor and the department heads produces zero tax rate increase for the 2000 effectively Holding the same rate, which is actually reduced last year the effect on the 2010 Levy would be what based on evaluations as you see them based upon the value residential valuations We have not received the manufacturing valuations yet There is a slight increase in residential. I think it was like Thank you. It was about eight million dollar increase if my memory serves me right And it all depends upon what the manufacturing comes in at and if the manufacturing comes in at zero Then we could receive more funds if the manufacturing comes in at a significant decrease Where we would actually see a drop in our tax base. We could see less revenue based upon the the state has released the equalized values and But we haven't received the manufacturing yet So based on equalized values, but it the tax rate isn't calculated that way But if we hold everything true, they would say that we would have lost 20 million dollars in manufacturing value So if that number holds true, this is fiction kind of a fictional portrait I guess but if based upon the equalized value We have a 12 million dollar loss in our tax base and that would equate to about a hundred thousand dollar decrease in the tax revenue From the my perspective that hundred thousand dollars I mean, that's it's up to the council on how to deal with that But that's a figurative that is not a definitive number. We could lock in on a tax Dollar amount a tax levy if this changes We could lock in on a dollar amount and if our value does go up You don't capture any of that new growth. So then in theory if there's a new structure that's been built then The services that they're demanding fall upon the new that the other taxpayers in essence If I make so The current model shows a based on this zero tax rate and a roughly a loss of a hundred thousand dollars in In overall revenue, that's kind of the model we're looking at at the moment. That's I would say that's worst case worst case, okay So I guess you know a hundred thousand you say it's people. That's a lot of money, but in the grand scheme of $36 million budget It kind of It is significant in the sense that if it is less the city would actually be spending less than the year before If there's an increase in those the however This would capture the the increase in those services demanded by the increased in properties Etc. Correct. Okay on a different question based on item three. It was brought up to me by Alderperson Rineflesh Regarding the language and how it was worded It currently reads that the capital improvements program resumed with a minimum funding of two million dollars for 2010 and I was trying to remember why the language was kind of mushy like that I think the thought was that if additional dollars were became available that we could actually bond More than two million, but we want to make sure there was a floor of no less than two million to give some flexibility to your department and to the mayor in this final CIP portion of the budget does that As the language read now give that type of flexibility your thoughts basically on that Yeah, that's that's how I I recall it developing and what was being discussed There is based upon I think it's ordinance or is it a resolution that Restricts it to three million dollars for general capital improvements anyways So there is a cap of three million set by another Resolution and then this was to set that floor so that there was a minimum funding level for Infrastructure I think that was partially because last year was zero correct because of the budget issues that came up Yeah, we did see I think about 800,000 for a project Thank You madam chair terry I've got a question As far as property tax And the value of properties We've got a couple companies that are going to be leaving should wagon Pentair has done at the end of September and next year It's going to be Thomas industries Do we collect the same amount of property taxes on those buildings? If they're if they're vacant and they're not doing anything compared to when they've got an act of business going and What could be the potential effect there? That would be a good question for Dave Lutz key But I would anticipate just based upon what you see I would anticipate a drop in some value, but there is still a value in that structure being there So it's not like it goes to zero right, but I believe that there is a reduced a portion in that So we we would possibly see a reduction and from an earlier presentation. I think Dave Lutz he projected that we would have a Tax-based tax-based decrease the following year. So I think he was projecting that that would occur. Okay. Thank you Alderman Alderman Bowers Thank You madam chairman I Talked with the assessor and I asked the same question and He said it would take two to three years before the state would catch up with the evaluation So he didn't expect too much of a decrease this year, but we don't know what it was in the in the channel other years, so With pent hair and Thomas industry. He didn't expect any decrease right away Alderman Bell Thank You madam chair and state shared revenue estimates. I know it's hazy and you kind of make it up But what's the estimate minus a couple a hundred thousand or we we actually received? confirmation on what it's going to be for 2010 and it was an additional hundred five thousand a hundred six thousand dollars less because expenditure restraint went down as well too as more cities are Participating in the program. There's less money going into the pie. So there's less to be split out so we have a total decrease of $336,000 in aid Okay, so as a follow-up madam chair. So just the big chunks of money. There's 336,000 less in state-shared revenue. There's about a hundred thousand worst case a hundred thousand dollar decrease due to property Property values decreasing and then we'll have to come up with a hundred and forty to hundred and eighty thousand dollars in bond payments If we do two to three million dollars worth of Infrastructure enhancements. So just back of the napkin. That's six seven hundred thousand dollars right there in immediate impact So I mean there's no doubt we're going to be spending that less next year and the way that impacts is the document We're talking about tonight under the second top of the second page those five kind of goals and objectives the first one being Pay and benefits will begin a march downward So if we take in a lot less money as we begin our conversations our negotiation conversations the The collective bargaining unit will not be empowered to bring the salary and grievance Committee back something that would march that percentage north of 85 or 86. So again it's going to be very very difficult because If our our total pot of money is decreasing significantly by seven or eight hundred thousand dollars and we are tasking the Negotiations committee to bring back pay and benefit goal that is somewhat less than 85 percent of the total pot of money Those are going to be some difficult conversations I just want as we as we move toward next Monday night or two Mondays from now when we vote to approve this document I'd like to go through the five sentences here and how that impacts negotiations and that's so number one That's how it affects it is that it's going to be very difficult conversation because less money and we're going to drive that percentage down Thank you madam chair So anything about the wording itself in the document because it'll be coming before the council as a document to be approved and This is our working time on There's anything that people want to say or do about with it. Okay, is there I would madam chair I just I'm not sure my light is not deep. Oh, thank you I guess I'd go to the next item then under the savings of three percent if a chairman Gisha could talk about one of the one of the thoughts that's out there a chairman Gisha is that the Because of the signing of the Wisconsin budget fire and police are immune if you will from any budget cuts and What I read in number two is that we expect this savings So can you explain what you've learned as chairman and what you and the mayor have learned through his training? How we can get some savings out of fire and police potentially even though the Wisconsin budget is what it is, please I Think I might I say I think because the Department of Revenue who was charged and not happy about being charged by the way with Putting this program together setting litmus tests setting forms setting everything In speaking to them over many hours Here's how I guess where it is a snapshot of the moment. They had a Communication period where they solicited back from municipalities and so forth that was supposed to end on the 12th if I recall Terry He got extended 18th that was extended because of the wave of What the heck are you doing kind of comments? I Reviewed and I know Terry did and the finance department finance committee reviewed the the communications from not only the Wisconsin League municipalities, but the counties Association as well as other entities who were asked to weigh in on this and the urge and the right now the momentum is that the rules to are to be written or very well could be written Allowing for the percent of shared revenues as a percent of your total budget To not be able to be touched for fire and police for instance If we spend a dollar for a policeman or a fireman Who says that dollar doesn't come from our our our general tax levy versus the same dollar coming from the state of Wisconsin and that's kind of the quandary that the Department of Revenue is in right now How do they do that? They initially sent out a form that looked rather not friendly to municipalities That would have done just as was originally feared locked it in they seem to be softening on that point also the Department of Revenue will have a They don't know in what form shape or who is on it, but they will have a process in which Let me give you an example if we had a Substantial amount of top-end retirements such as we had in the police department of which we recaptured some of those savings done in the fire department We should be able to through Potentially reorganization Have less seats to fill if we reorganize it or if that's the way it comes down And I had that specific conversation with the head of the DOR was writing these rules and he said that would be a Case where you would be able to substantiate why you're doing it and why it makes sense They're looking for trap doors all the way around this because they don't want to be sitting through Every community in the state of Wisconsin every time they want to cut ten dollars for coffee or something so the rules seem to be softening up and we're looking forward to a Ruling by the next couple weeks Terry That gives us the latitude to determine Dollar that is or by percentage based on the percentage shared revenue we get versus tack local tax dollars So I know that's a kind of a long answer that doesn't give you a lot But that's the where the pendulum seems to be swinging the other way now Thanks, just follow-up manager so as a as guidance to the labor negotiations collective bargaining team that There's no mandate from the state that fire department but manning budgets and police department manning budgets go untouched that those are up for grabs and that there are ways financially to Make a case for making those very efficient Organizations in accordance with our second bullet, which is we expect a savings of three percent. Is that a fair way to put it? I Guess I would couch it as even if there was a mandate there's a process to to To gain those financial efficiencies through the review process with the Department of Revenue so worst-case scenario is We have a scenario kind of like we discussed and that the Department of Revenue Would through their waiver process just say yeah, we get that we understand that and move on so I think both ways One is setting the rules as we described it with percentage Would be great would be the best the other would be for us to have to make a clear case why we'd be spending less Based on common sense now you're dealing with the state of Wisconsin so common sense doesn't always enter into it, but That seems to be the two sides of it and we'll probably end up living somewhere in the middle with some relief President for thank you Using using the using the Fair Department as an example a question that I want to answer it is Let's say for example. We had five retirements I know we know we're gonna have the chief and let's say we have four other retirements in the Fair Department and let's assume that There's no change in the table of organization. We rehire five people But those five people the chief chief the new chief might come in as a lesser salary than the chief We have now and then let's assume the other four people come in as at less salaries And let's say at the end of the day because of less salaries. We have a savings Let's save a hundred and fifty thousand dollars the question I want to answer from the Department of Revenue. Are we going to be able to take $50,000 savings and put that back in the general fund or is this maintenance of efforts going to say you're going to Save a hundred and fifty thousand dollars, but you're going to have to send you're going to have to keep it in the department And spend it somewhere else and that's that's one thing that I want answered is if we do have savings Are we going to put it in the general fund? That's what I'd like to see it But that hasn't been clarified it either Think one of the things in terms of this budget process being slower is the fact that the state keeps sending out new things and Or giving you hints of things, but nothing's definite in this Maintenance of effort is one example of that that has been we knew about it I think in June, but as to what it really meant and who was responsible that has taken all summer to do and That's a hard thing to plan for when the sands are shifting under everybody's budget from from month to month or week to week so And a Terry's Mr. Hansen is trying to do the best you can to keep us up to date and to bring up things that Influence our calculating and our planning Anything else? Yes, the month of New York I know you said that That the population of the city doesn't have anything with the financial budget part of it Strictly used for a chart type things, okay, but you know in 2007 The estimate since assessment was 48,000 598 that's in 2007 I doubt very seriously. We're at that point now We're probably back to the 1960s probably about 45,000 people I would think We're gonna have a sense that we'll find out for sure The other thing that brings us up is yes, the population does make a difference because You know when we compare ourselves to different communities like lacrosse, Oshkosh Eau Claire These are all college towns They have more students that come in like like example is Oshkosh they have 11,000 students, of course, they needed more policemen Okay, same thing with Eau Claire Things so I would think this would make a difference and what your budget is because What are you gonna have a hiring freeze if you have a bunch of retirements in here? What would you do then? Okay, we don't happen to have that kind of students that come into the city President thank you Lee I'm sure you understand those students aren't counted in population Yeah, but those communities such as lacrosse and I don't think you want to look at lacrosse's tax rate as an example those communities receive In the case of lacrosse, it's just slightly over one million dollars From the University of Wisconsin system for that increased police protection fire protection even trucks and Capital expenses so while they may have these universities they are compensated for them I understand that sir. So that makes a big difference. Yeah, right it does Yes, and by the way, they still have some of the highest tax rates in the state. That's correct They also have a higher TO in those cities big time, so I need something one million dollars in a big hurry Absolutely, I think they have over a hundred firemen No, I don't know about hunter. I know that this is a 2002 police to you. They have 97 gosh-gosh has 97 Madison's has 282 if you want to go a little further Go clear has 99 This is this these are old figures here Yeah, shaboy again, and at that we're at this thing. We're at 52,000 which I told you the census is 48 We have at this time at that time was 90. I think we're we haven't filled three of the positions So we're below the 90 figure These are old figures that says Thank you. Thank you Is there any Motion resolution anything on the table right now all of them involved I just want to continue madam chair just with number three. I appreciate Dulce Johnson mentioning number three We think that more inspections and better code enforcement. We think better code enforcement will lead to better neighbors Better law enforcement and higher property values. So that's what I think number three is about number four I guess I'd ask either director Hanson or chairman Gisha to talk about the history of those fund balances Why number four is written in here and what we hope the fund balances looks like as we move into 2010. Thank you yes Director Hanson, please The the use of fund balance since I I've been here in oh eight I think it was budgeted around 500,000 last year. It was budgeted. I think 750 or something around that mark and the thought behind the fund balance is That you'll have retirements and then you'll have new ones coming new employees coming in and so you'd get a nutrition Savings and that it was kind of budgeted in and so that that was why it was done the way it was My my personal belief is that if we can try to Stay that back and keep it as close to zero or use it for one-time Expenditures that that's a bet it will set the city up in a better position in the long run that you're not reliant on one-time type of Expenditures or savings to operate your your municipality that if you can set it up for recurring it revenues Cover recurring expenditures that that's ultimately in my view the best way to to set it up So I think that that Was addressed because I made that comment and finance committee meeting that ideally we'd like to see that get to that point And it was incorporated into this document Yes We've been talking a lot of doom and gloom numbers and stuff but I guess is Alderman bauk is moving forward item five. I think is a real positive for our employees As a goal goal and objective of a formal training program to increase employee skill sets I Know Alderman bauk. That's kind of your role I mean that's one of your your things at Johnsonville to do that but even on my little teeny level I'm evaluated every year on how I've made myself more valuable to the company with training and Reaching out and learning new things. I think by challenging our employees and providing them the tools To better to be better Employees and be better people we all are better when we learn stuff And I know LTC is offered to help us with this And I think it's via the mayor one of the goals for whoever will be our new HR director But you have a lot more experience regarding employee development than I perhaps you could speak to number five as to value to an organization Alderman bauk. I Was just gonna say that as we go through these tough times the only thing you can take with you We talk about it at our company that you know the owner can't promise you a job tomorrow. There are a lot of reasons, you know Why we always plan like we could shut the doors tomorrow But in development Alderman Gisha the thing is as these employees invest in themselves As we give some money for content from classes, whatever their development needs are that's something nobody can ever take away from them If if budget necessities mean we get rid of 20 more employees from somewhere throughout the city We can't promise them a job tomorrow But what we can promise them is any development that's given them computer skills Professional skills that don't have to do with their day-to-day job that develop them leadership opportunities that they're given so that on their resume They can say managed six others things of that nature No one can ever take that away from them that enhances their own personal value and as I understand it in years past We've had training dollars available and that members City employees haven't maybe taken advantage of it as much as perhaps they hopefully will in the future Because hopefully they'll see that as the taxpayers investing in in them and the city investing in them to make them able to contribute more to the bottom line in the city so that they can Find efficiency so that they can make processes better so that they can find savings deeply rooted in their budgets So my hope is that this new HR manager will talk about what those will develop those programs and that the department heads will manage Which employees need what content for their own personal development? It's a really exciting part of this document and with that madam chair. I would move that we approve the document as written Notion to approve the document as it appears or I'd modify that that we recommend approval to the common counsel as Right. Thank you You second Yeah, okay, it's been moved and seconded to move this on to council meeting October 6th Any discussion? I'll be certain Thank you manager. I'd still like to have I know we're gonna vote on today But I would like to have some figures as to where we sit in terms of benefit Versus a benefit employee salaries versus revenues. I think that's an important figure It's it is a goal here and it says that the goal is to 80 less of a general fund expenditures So apparently we're looking for them for more than 80% and that for that reason I'd like to see this at least to get those information. Thank you. Okay Who would who would get that in Mr. Hansen? Mr. Hansen can you get that where we are in terms of the percentage of the budget is for Okay, thank you. So the current one whatever it is Is that something madam chair? Is that something that you we could have before the you know? 13 days from now that so we could okay. Thank you. Okay. Yes vice-president Bishop. Thank you I just want to at this juncture. Thank the finance committee for and the finance department and the alderman and citizens who showed up at the various finance meetings in which we had workshops and discussions regarding this I Mean I could go right on down the line I won't but items such as investing in our community with the code enforcement and stuff the older person Clayunas was instrumental in bringing that to our attention as as a real need The the tax rate information was kind of universal the capital improvements Alderman born and an older person Heidemann. We're talking at great length about about those So we tried to take all this stuff and incorporate it into a Document that becomes somewhat of a living document that we can refer to all year rather than just our usual Two lines or one paragraph regarding the budget and it does say under the heading of 2001 city of Sheboyin budget resolution standing with our citizens and looking beyond tomorrow and that's the purpose of this document with big goals and objectives and Specifics so that we can refer back to it as we make decisions all year long Does it fit with our goals and objectives that we set up for the year? Does it fit in finance not just financially but in our our mission and vision and values in those? Five items above those objectives, so I just wanted to thank everybody for their input I think I re-typed this five or six times and forced everybody to read them over and over But hopefully we got to a document that was and maybe other members of the committee or participated that represents the flavor of our discussions Accurately, so I just wanted to thank everybody who participated in the discussions for their help Okay, it's been moved and seconded to pass this along to the common council all those we take a Person to person individual vote on this okay, we'll call a roll on this so yes would be to pass this along All of ours you have something first Thank you ma'am By passing this tonight Will there be room for? amendments and the council When they come before Okay, thank you At this point, we don't have any but there may be something based on some information. Okay Okay, certainly Born hi Bow hi Bowers hi Decker Gisho votes aye Hannah is excused Heidemann. Hi Cough Kittleson is excused Clayunas hi Montemay or in Rindflesh excused Syrac. Hi Fanda wheel And It's unanimous that we will pass this along to the council there are 12 people present tonight So we do have a quorum and I think that's all that we have on the agenda It's been moved the second to do adjourn we are adjourned. Thank you