 So if you wouldn't mind, Rafa, if you want to introduce yourself and name your business. OK, yes. My name is Rafa Gibbard. I'm the owner of Brave One Contract Agency. I'm located in Salisbury, North Carolina. And I have created the business with a focus on construction for the federal government. OK, OK, wonderful. And, Renona? Hi, Eric. Thanks for having me. We appreciate you. My name is Renona Riddle Brown. And I'm the CEO and founder of Hermar Solutions. And my main market is going to be the federal government sector as well as private sector. And I'm in the startup phase of my business at this point. OK, OK. And the point, the reason why I want to have you on today was because I know that I receive a lot of inquiries from veterans out there asking me, how do they want a mentorship, they want specialized services that I, and knowing your two stories, I was familiar that you were able to get some of those services paid for or reimbursed by the VA hospital. And so that was the idea. I was like, let me come on and help you share that so that you can maybe give someone an idea of what's available. And then also be kind of like a testimony to the fact that the government does have programs out there to help people who want to pursue these respective avenues. Would you say that's the case, Renona, in your situation? Yes, yes, sir. For me, what initially happened was I was working for, after I retired from the military, I went and continued my service for the federal government sector. I worked at Social Security Administration. Then I went on to the VA. And then I went on to CBP, Custom Borders and Protection. And while doing that, I got sick. Now I'm already a service disabled veteran, but my disabilities were exasperated through the duties, the things that I was performing as a federal government employee and as a branch chief. And so I felt like I said so much to offer to the world and also wanted to have that quality of life for myself to feel that I'm giving back. And so I learned about the self-employment track. And when I actually applied for the self-employment track, when I was at the VA, I was still working. And I was disapproved. And the self-employment chart, by the way, is under the Vocational Rehabilitation Program. And so the, yeah. Rafa, can you pull up those tracks, please? Share it on the screen for everyone to see. Go ahead, Rana. You can keep talking. We'll just pull it up while you're talking. Right. And so most veterans are aware of the first three tracks, which are all educational tracks, but many actually pursue the self-employment track and the independent living track. And so I wanted to continue to do something after I was retired on disability from the federal government and actually had my business ideal back in 2005 when I initially retired. And so I was, you know, learned about the different programs that were available through Vocational Rehabilitation. And that's when I learned about the self-employment track maybe a few years before I retired. And so I applied for the self-employment track. The first time I didn't do it right, the second time, you know, I did my homework, read the regulations, looked at different resources, and I was more prepared when I went in to apply for self-employment, and I was approved. Okay. Can you guys, one of you give me a high-level overview of, because you mentioned a couple of different tracks. Now, you said vocational rehab, and then you said self-employment. What's the difference? Actually, Vocational Rehabilitation is one of the branches of the Veterans Affairs. And what they help with is they try to help veterans reintegrate into the workforce. Okay. I've got a screenshot. Let me see if I can show it to you. I took down that one that we just talked about. And let's see if I can share this one. Nope, looks like it's being my ability. But anyway, they look at re-employment, rapid access to employment, self-employment, employment through long-term services, and independent living. Okay. So those are the five tracks. And I think most veterans are familiar with going back to school and getting a degree or getting some kind of certificate. Okay. Okay, so what did you guys, so what did you, in your particular case, Rafa, what did you do different than to go back to school and get the education? Because from what I understand, most people, you know, they do like a master's degree or they do like a formal education. Absolutely. Well, first of all, I had my bachelor's. I didn't have a master's, but I wasn't in a career field where a master's would have made me any more viable in the job market. When I was in the military, I was with the engineers and I did a lot of training to work in construction. And my interest was construction. After my second deployment, I came back. And one of the things when you go to vocational rehab, I think a lot of veterans have it in their mind that they can go in and say, well, this is what I want to do. I want to get my Juris doctorate or I want to become a social worker or whatever. When the focus should be the end result, you know, I would like to be involved with construction. You know, I'm no longer able to handle the physical requirements of my current job. I'd like to be in IT or something like that rather than discussing, you know, the five meter target, which is I want to go back to school. In my case, going back to school didn't make sense. And I had done some contracting when I was in Afghanistan. So I saw, you know, how much opportunity was out there and having received some of my acquisition certifications, I came back and I told my counselor that I wanted to continue working with the federal government but do it as a contractor. Okay, okay. And then can you walk us through that process? So then what was the next step? After we agreed that I wasn't physically able to handle my duties anymore, I had been employed in the post office. Once we both agreed that I wouldn't be able to do that, we started looking at different options. Now, something that I've been doing for a long time is rather than going to a counselor or a supervisor to give me an evaluation, I'll write my own accomplishments and objectives. And it just makes it easier. So knowing that I wanted to go into federal contracting, I went and I had already approached the company which was called Concrete Moisture Solutions and I gave them a presentation and basically I gave a PowerPoint selling them on the idea of doing business with the federal government. Once they agreed to represent me, I took that back to my counselor and I told her that I wanted to be a consultant in the federal market and that I wanted to bring this admixture for Concrete Moisture Solutions to the forefront. So they put me in the OJT track which meant that while I was working for Concrete Moisture Solutions, I was pursuing my certifications, I was going to conferences, I was taking different courses online and attending different classes. I was receiving per diem from the vocational rehabilitation. Okay. So now, okay, so the OJT track, does that fall under vocational rehab as well? It does. Okay, all right. So under vocational rehab, you took the OJT track and then Ranona took self-employment track. Yes. Now, when you were going to the conferences and the certifications, how does that work? Do you pay for that stuff and the government reimburses you or do they pay you for it? How does that, how was that working? In fact, what per diem? Well, the per diem comes every month. There's a form that I filled out. I think Concrete Moisture Solutions was giving me 1200 a month. And I think that vocational rehab was up around 19. And I had to fill out how many hours I spent giving presentations. I would show them how much travel time I spent, how much time I was spending sending out solicitations and filling out bids and attending conferences. And then I would give them an invoice for the travel arrangements that I'd done, including the hotel and the flights and things like that. And then they would reimburse me with that. Okay, was that the same thing for like the courses as well and conferences? Yes. Once I enrolled in a course, I would send them the invoice and then I would be reimbursed for it within a month or so. Okay, Renona. Yes, sir. Now, you took self-employment track. Yes, the self-employment track is a little bit more, not is a little bit, it's more specific to your specific business when it comes to comprehensive training, supplies, soft supplies, meaning paper and pencil and things like that that you may need to run your business. With regard to the self-employment track, the first step for all the tracks is of course you have to go to voc rehab. They do a comprehensive evaluation to see what your skill sets are. And just as Rafa said, if you're unable, the key here is to help them reintegrate you into the workforce. So you're unable to do what you did with your job but you need to learn a new skill. And so with self-employment, for me, I've been an employee, I was a specialist, I was a branch chief at every level. However, I did not have the skill and knowledge and experience to start a company and how that would look. And so once you sell your ideal to your counselor and get them to believe in you, then they have a program that they put you into. They have several programs, but the one that they actually highly recommend is the Accelerator program. An Accelerator program brings you in to see, okay, you had this idea about this business, so let's qualify and quantify that business. And let's see, is it just an ideal? Is it a hobby or is it something that we can qualify and quantify? And then is it something that can be sustainable? And once you go through the Accelerator program and they help you do your business plan and everything like that, then you're supposed to do, and this doesn't happen, but it's supposed to be a feasibility study. So for me, my company was an HR consulting company. And so you look at that and you say, okay, what are all of the hard costs that you need to do this? Do you need to be incorporated? They are reimbursing you on that. Do you need a professional photo? Do you need a website? Any hard of soft costs that you can imagine, including a computer or whatever you need, you had that on your feasibility study, any certification, any courses like your course, the GoCon course, is this something that can specifically help you with regard to doing government contracts? And they'll pay for that. They'll pay for any certifications that you need, if you need your project management certification. They'll pay for traditional type of business. They'll pay for anything that is in alignment with what your company, your specific company is. And once you get, like initially, when you go in, you have to apply for it, and then they determine what track you in. So if you have a serious employment handicap, or if you just have an employment handicap, it's one of the criterias they look at for track one, you can receive the $100,000 in reverse for your business. For track two, you can receive with the $25,000. Now, with that amount said, it's not, you can exceed that if you verify that I knew this fingerprint machine, for my business, in order for me to stand my business up, because this is what my idea was about. Let's say I'm a staffing company or whatnot. So I need this specific computer, or this specific fingerprint machine, or I need this, if you're a photographer, I need this type of camera, you know, I need this, or if you're a farmer, I need these type of tools. And some things that they don't reimburse and regulation is clear on that. And so as you go through the process, there's the things that they are reimburse you academic wise, preliminary stuff. And then when you get into the phase of standing your business up, where you actually need those specific things, like let's say golf, car and training, you need that, you need a mentor, a coach, they will even reimburse you on them. And so that's the self-employment track, kind of in a nutshell is a little bit more, you know, more detail, because when you're dealing with your counselors, you think of it like a patient-doctor relationship, where you're constantly in communication with them about you may need to take a pivot or a turn for this, and you may need this, that you didn't realize in your feasibility study that you need now, you know, in order to stand up and they'll say, okay, you got to sell that ideal and why, and then they can reimburse you, you know, either they can pay forward the credit card, or they can, if you pay out of pocket, and they'll reimburse you what you pay. A couple of questions. Who devices the feasibility study? You do? Well, the feasibility study can be done with the accelerator, through the accelerator program, or you can even, let's say if you were a company that did a feasibility study for government contracts. Okay. You know, and I went in and I said, okay, here's Duffcon and Eric Carpese, company provides feasibility study for this specific part of what my ATR company needs because I would like to enter into the federal government market space, you know, what that looks like. And then you'll look at my company ideal in my business and you'll say, okay, Renona, you want to do this, you want, okay, so maybe you need a mentoring and coaching certification, and this is how much it's gonna cost. Maybe you need to have, you need to hire my, or if you're doing a specific feasibility study and you're looking at the company and say, well, maybe you need Duffcon that'll give you a step-by-step to show you everything you need to do with regard to registering in SAMS and then we'll hold your hand. So when you go to post part of it, then you can hire us again for a one year because they do the post part once you stand up or you can actually get a mentor and you can request these things. A lot of veterans don't know this part. In fact, I've learned as I went that I could have went, well, I need not just the accelerator, but I may need a specific HR company that I can model or mentor approach a J that can give me, okay, what do you, what exactly do you want your business to look like? You know, are you gonna be a staffer? Are you gonna be a benefits? And how does that relate to government contracts? So you gotta be really clear with what you want to do when you're talking to your counselor and explaining that to them and hope that they get that picture and then that they believe in your ideal and then they'll check mark, okay. And if they don't, you have to convince them as to why. And most times, you're able to do that if you really have those needs for the business. Now you said there's different tracks and you'd mentioned track one. Right, the track, the first three tracks or like Rafael said was for on-the-job training and the other two, they're all academic. They're tracks, let's say a person and, oh, let me say this too, just so veterans will know. You know, I have my master's degree and it doesn't matter about if you have a degree because the voc rehab will give you that challenge. You know, some officers will say, well, we're not a degree program or we're not a, but that specific degree may not be what you need that you can use to, if you're unable, based on your service-connected disabilities to either get a job or start your business. And so, you know, in the red, the more empowered and educated that veterans are with regulation and what they say, you know, the better off you are with regard to challenging those type of obstacles that will come your way, because they will come your way in that program. So the independent living is another one that is- Can you see my screen? Can you see it? Yes, sir, I can see it. Okay, all right. So is that what we're talking about? The veteran employment tracks, re-employment, rapid access to employment, self-employment. I see the five employment tracks, but I don't see- Oh, okay, let me, let's do this. Rafa, if you wanted to- I'll put it up on my phone as well. Well, I have mine. Okay. Yeah, that looks like a good list right there. Okay, so I think I need Rafa. Oh, yeah, that's it, Rafa. Okay, you stop sharing, Rafa. Okay. I think I stopped. Does it look like that? I can't see the top one. One, two, three, four. Okay, you got them all, re-employment, you did. That's good. That's it, can you see that? Yes. All right, re-employment, rapid access, self-employment, employment through long-term services and independent living. Yeah, that's it. Okay, perfect. All right, keep going. Okay, and so I think I answered, I think if I didn't, just let me go specifically, I'm not smart enough. Okay, now what I was asking you, you said track one, track two, track three. Yeah. You were saying most of them are all educational tracks and you were beyond the education board. Well, for me, because I had a business, I had an ideal to start a business. Okay. And so for me, I was unable to continue to work. And that is one of the criteria, I couldn't have sustainable work. So self-employment and independent living are along those lines where you can't work, but you can't start a business, where you have the flexibility or independent living where you can't start a business, but maybe there's a hobby or something that you want to do to have a fulfilled life. And that's what independent living is also closely aligned with self-employment. Now, Rafa, what made you, okay, what made you choose OJT over self-employment? Well... And by the way, before I ask you that question, I don't see OJT on the screen. OJT, I believe falls underneath one of these, I forgot which one, the other three, I'm not as familiar as I am with self-employment, it falls underneath one of those. Right. Okay, okay. All right. Yeah, it probably falls under that long-term employment through long-term services, but... Yes, it does. You're right, I see it here on the job training. Right, right. My reason for it was twofold. First of all, I was entering the market with the product that I really believe has application, long-term application. So if I was able to get the admixtures into the federal market, I would have a reoccurring supply with the federal government from concrete moisture solutions, and I would continue receiving revenue from that company. Gotcha, okay. Also, with the self-employment track, it wasn't my personal experience, but I have known other people that say they're simply pointed towards the small business administration for guidance on how to do a business plan and how to go forward, and they're put in contact with a P-TECH. All of that I could do... Without any help. Since a vocational rehabilitation. So for me to do the OJT, it gave me a two-prong approach to getting into federal contracting. One, I had the civilian company supporting my endeavors, and then I also had vocational rehabilitation, giving me that additional platform to move forward. So I don't know how it was with Renona. Once I left the post office, I began going forward with getting my certifications and registering in SAM and getting my LLC registered and going to Washington, D.C. for conferences and Orlando to meet with NASA and to South Carolina to meet with the Savannah nuclear plant. And just doing that traveling, it pulled me away from any source of revenue if I hadn't been going along this track that I built up. At every point along the way, I was receiving the two sources of income, one from the company that wanted me to get them into the government and one from the government wanting me to get the certifications to be able to stand up on my own. Having said that, I also wanna be very clear that when I set up Brave on Contract Agency, in order for me to get my certifications, my service disabled veteran certification, my economically disadvantaged woman owned small business, my HUBZone certification, all of that was contingent on my personal demographics. And that required me to be my own LLC, even though I was working for Concrete Moisture, I was not directly an employee for them. And it goes along the pattern of what you're talking about being a consultant. Right, right. Now, let me ask you this. What did it, I know we know that you approached them, but what made you believe that you could approach them? Concrete Moisture. Was it vocational rehabilitation? No, no, no, Concrete. Yeah, what made you believe that they would go for that? Well, I kind of operate off this rule of three. And I think we've talked about this. You're gonna have to tell me no three times before I give up. And like Renona, probably 10 years ago after I got back from Afghanistan, I came back to the States. I went through my yellow ribbon and I did my medical evaluation and I was having problems with my hips. So I received a disability rating and I got the letter and I contacted the Winston Salem vocational rehabilitation. I told them I'm now qualified as a disabled veteran. I'd like to come and do my evaluation. I thought I could just go in and talk to them and convince them that the post office was no longer a viable career, because I was in the National Guard. And I went in and I think I addressed it incorrectly. And again, that was about 10, 12 years ago, maybe 15 now. And I went in with the idea that I could get another degree or I could readjust myself to go into another career field. After I got back from Kuwait, my disability rating was increased and I realized you don't really go in and say, I wanna go to school and this is what I want and I need this Apple computer and I wanna have these ergonomic chairs and desks and everything. It was more, I'm not physically able to do this job anymore and my interest is contracting. Having deployed three times and working in contracting two of the three times, it gave me an idea that it was an area that I was interested in. Something that was exciting to me, meeting a need and being able to supply something. It kept me involved, but I knew after Kuwait that my time with the military is gonna be limited. I've been diagnosed with cancer. Physically, I just wasn't gonna be able to continue through. So I started examining my options. Renona, something that Rafa mentioned interesting enough was that did you experience that in the self-employment track where they tried to send you to the SBA for all your training and to the PTAX? Was that your experience? That's absolutely right, what she said, because the self-employment track is not a popular track. They tried to, I don't wanna say they and I don't wanna say what they tried, but it's true. They shy you away from applying for self-employment track because it's a process and there's a lot to it. First, you're walking in there and you're saying, I'm unable to, because of my disability, I have an employment barrier. I can't work for anyone. And then you're saying that I need help. And I still have, I have the strong desire to start my business, can you help me? And then they're gonna say, well, we can retrain you, blah, blah, blah, and they're gonna kind of discourage you in the self-employment track. That's what one of the things I say to people that I talk to about it is, you gotta do your homework. First time I went, I was denied because I didn't. And then the second time I dug into regulation and I saw that this is the self-employment track is for veterans. And regarding the monies, I mean, to start a business, that's what a lot of people is the startup called. When you're looking for grants and you look for this. They sent me on a wild goose chase going in the SBA. SBA has gotten better. Go to SBA and you can listen to all these videos and things like that. And there are things that you have to do, but it costs money to do your LLC. It costs money to do certain things. It's gonna cost you money to do those things. And the VA is saying, hey, you have this service, this employment handicap. And we're gonna help you retrain you and we're gonna provide X amount of monies to help you stand your business up. Once we verify that it is a quality, qualifying as sustainable business, then yes, we're gonna pay you these things. Now you had to tell us the things that you need. What are the specific things that you need to help your business? And this is where the other tracks don't pay is they will pay for these things. They will pay not only for your, but they pay for the computer and the desk and all that kind of stuff. Especially if you have a reasonable combination, they'll pay for that. But that's outside of what you need to stand your business. If you need a special computer that may cause you $5,000 of whatever the case may be, I'm just throwing an amount out there. Then, and you can't afford to pay for that to start. That's gonna stop you, preclude you from starting your business and you, in this in your feasibility study that you need this, then the VA will pay for that for you. And so to answer the question, do they discourage and is it a track that people don't necessarily pursue? That's true. Cause everybody is not a business owner, minded type thinking person. Initially, I just knew I was at the end of my road when it came to working for someone I couldn't do it. So my next theme was I wanna start my business. I wanna give back. And here's a track that VA has. What do I need to do to be eligible to qualify for this track? No, where did you find that information at? That, you know, in terms of how do you determine if you're eligible for that particular track? In the M2A, what is it? M2A are, I can provide all the resources. Okay. But- We can do it. We can share it afterwards. Yeah. Yeah, I provide all the resources. I also follow Benjamin Kraus on Veteran to Veteran. He's one of the only veteran lawyers that talks about all the tracks. Doesn't talk about self-employment a lot, but he does talk about self-employment. And so he has a workbook on how to prepare yourself before you go talk to your cast member and I actually followed his steps. And that's when I did that. That's when I got approved. So it's just getting into the regulation. There is chapter eight talks about the self-employment track in the M2A are. And this is not a very user-friendly because they also compare with worms. So it's all kind of separated this way that you're scrolling down. But if you go to Benjamin Kraus' website, Benjamin K, or yep, A, there you go. And he has, that's his newsletter that he puts out. And it gives you, we have tips. He has a website that actually has an M2A like all together. So you don't have to try to navigate through. Okay. You know, and find everything that you need. So he has everything at once in one spot. Okay, okay. I researched, so to answer your question, I researched, I read, I did my homework. And when I went to talk to the council, I was prepared. So I would tell, you know, veterans, just be prepared. Know what you're entitled to, figure out what is best for you, what you like to do, and then pursue that. Don't take no for an answer. Like Rafaia said, no, I go three times. I go more than three. I do eight. That's a little excessive, that's okay. I'm excessive, but you know, that's where I'm successful. Ah, sure, I get it. Persistence is the number one key to success. Not talking persistent now, but you know. No, no, I have it here in chapter eight, the guidelines for development administration of a self-employment plan. Got it. Okay, now you talked about, you know, once you get on the track, you had to put together the budget. Do you have, is that something that we can maybe tweak so we can share it with people later on? We can take yours and revamp it, make it something that's non-secretive, you know? Yeah, yeah, I did it in a, yes, I'll definitely share with you. I share it with a lot of my veteran friends that are doing it now, yeah. Okay, okay, excellent, okay, good. Now, so again, what would be the first step for someone, where should they start? The first step is the contact vote rehabilitation and say you're interested in the services through Bokeh rehab. You don't have to be specific to what service because most of the offices, you have to go through a four-hour, I don't know. Assessment. Assessment seminar. They'll send you a test that you have to take prior to your, you know, prior to going to that appointment. So you got to make sure you do that. And then when you go in, you need to have the application, which I share, I don't have the form number off the top of my head. You need to have that application submitted so you should have an idea of what it is you want to do because they'll bring the group in, they'll do this assessment, and then they'll break you off into individual counselors. And then at that point is the vital, that's your first appointment, and you need to be prepared because that's when you go in there and you're selling your ideal on what track, if it's self-appointment or one of the other tracks, you know, what you want to do and why, and that's when you're talking to that counselor about that. Then they'll pull up and they'll look at your assessment and they'll say, remember the first time I went, well, you know, you're qualified for these other type of things, you know, and I'm like, yeah, but I'm not interested in those other type of things. This is what I want to do. You know, so it's based on your interests, you know, so they'll discourage you and then, you know, you just have to sell yourself to your counselor. Would that be the same thing, Rafa? Would you experience an OJT track? What would be some of the steps? Pretty much. It did go exactly like Renona said. I contacted vocational rehab, made the appointment, walked into a conference room with probably 20 other veterans, waited for my name to be called out. When I eventually got back with my counselor, like I said earlier, I already had a plan to go forward. I had an idea what I wanted to address and how I wanted to sell it to her. Renona's right. This isn't something that you go into thinking, I'll just ask them if they can help me start my business. You know, they want to know that it's got legs, that it has some kind of foundation under it. You know, there's a lot of resources out there for veterans. And sometimes it's almost like information overload. You know, there's just so much out there. And Renona and I both went to different training that we know it was a federally funded event, but to walk away with something that was valuable, that was kind of questionable. When you go in, you talk to your vocational rehabilitation counselor, let them know that you're working towards that goal, whatever it is. In my case, it was to get into the construction field. In Renona's case, it was human resources. And, you know, I'm sure there are some veterans out there that would like to start a brewery or they want to do an eBay store or graphic arts or something like that. So go with that plan and help them realize the endpoint that you're going towards. You know, don't go in and say, I just need you to help me because they have a really heavy workload. You know, I've seen where the goal is, one counselor to 125 veterans, but I understand a lot of them have more than that. So when you go in have that end goal in your mind when you're talking to them. I think the reason they prefer academics is because that's a tried and true avenue that a lot of veterans use, you know, but and even with that. Well, it's tried and true in terms of, I guess you could effectively you can achieve receiving a degree, right? So that's the only tried and true portion of it. But in terms of, you know, workforce or employment or needs or compensation for being paid, that doesn't, it's no longer tried and true. Absolutely. And the thing with veterans is when you get out of the military, you know, the Montgomery bill was a great educational program. I mean, you go to college and you receive E5 stipend. That's a very good allowance to have. So a lot of vets will leave the military and they'll begin their college and it will be like a job, but the end is not a guarantee. There are other programs. And if you look back at the one that I followed, the OJT, they also have apprenticeship, which is brilliant, you know? Oh, apprenticeship is wonderful. I think that's the way to go. Absolutely. Especially if you're going to go into a trade like air condition or electrical or carpentry, things like that. Absolutely. That's the way to go versus education. Absolutely. And you know, one of the really sweet things that I found out, I've been putting in bids and one of my areas is elevator maintenance. You don't even need a college degree. And you know, you're looking at 80K plus as an apprentice. So and why not go that route? Right. You know, I mean, we're short in the crafts in America. We are. So, and it's something that vocational rehab will help you follow. You know, I did the OJT because there's a lot of paperwork involved with being a contractor, you know? And we've had that conversation where, you know, how many businesses want to sit there and write the solicitation and make sure we're compliant with DFARs and, you know, understand that our cybersecurity is on point and all that. So, you know, that happens to be my sweet spot. So I enjoy doing it, but I also like construction. So, but it's hard. You know, it's hard to do a demo and then do a solicitation and then, you know, make sure your crews out there painting when they need to be. That's stuff. Yeah. And the roofers are using the right kind of screws, you know, I mean, so to stay on top of it, but I do think the apprenticeship program with the vocational rehab is it might be underutilized. I think it's a great way to go forward. Wow. Apprenticeship program. Renona, you were saying that you learned some new things recently. You want to share? Yeah. As a matter of fact, I was on the phone this morning for almost two hours with the VA regarding my own case. And one of the things that I learned, which they do, they having a, oh my goodness, I just lost my train of thought just a bit. Well, okay. But they have a headquarters that you can call when you have issues with your, you know, with your counselor, if you're not getting the answers that you need. And I reached out to them. But one of the things I learned is that when they talk about the $25,000 and the $100,000, they're talking about the 25,000 that's specific to whatever your business needs are that can't even exceed that amount if your business needs weren't that in both cases. And I didn't know that. I thought that those were things that were the preliminary part, meaning, you know, to get incorporated, which they pay for all of that to do from your website, your professional photo, your insurance for up to one year. You know, and anything other preliminary stuff that you need just to be in the ready mode for your business. You know, they will pay, but they don't count that those monies as the monies that you need that are specific to your business, which is that $25,000 or $100,000, depending on what track you get approved for. Something, I read the self-employment track too, that one that Renona was talking about. And there are certain things that the vocation rehab won't pay for. They won't pay for you to purchase vehicles or to purchase a building or lease office space, per se. And yeah, but, and that's true. That's true, Raffi. But I'll tell you that there's less things that they won't pay for than what they will. So like the office space, I mean, that makes sense. You know, because you have a whole base business, you can do it at home. They're not gonna pay for your lease. But they also pay for post things. So if you need a mentor for a year or a business consultant, they'll pay for that. That's great. That's golden. Yeah, they want you to be successful. They want you to stand your business up and to be successful. And they created this program, you know, to do just that is an excellent program, it really is. It doesn't have to be, it could be any business, like Raffi said, it could be, you know, anything that is providing opportunities for yourself or for other veterans. Oh, now one thing that they won't do, they do help with franchise businesses, but they don't pay the franchise fees. Okay. And they don't do non-profit. So if you do a non-profit, it has to be a non-profit for profit. So those are some specific things that they don't reimburse. Okay. I'm a veteran. I'm coming out and I'm listening to this and I'm excited. I'm saying, okay, you know, I want to get started and you know, I've got an idea for business and I want to get into the government contracting space for what's my business, you know, how long is this going to take me to get up and running? How long is it going to take me to get into these programs? What is that, what's the timeframe like? Or better yet, Raffa, what was your timeframe before you know, you were able to get any sort of, you know, you went to the company for the concrete moisture. How long before, you know, you got, you were approved and the government started reimbursing you or paying your per diem. What, how long was that timeframe? I think... If you can remember. Right, I think within two months, I'm sure within two months I was getting checks from both CMS and Vocational Rehab at that time. Okay. And you know, again, there's a difference between my construction side and my federal side. Like, I have different jobs going on but it took me several solicitations before I had any kind of response. You know, I mean, I did not have a first-time home run. And I don't know if I'm the exception or the rule on this, but... No one has first-time home runs. So, while I was going through that, I was still being supported, you know, I still had Vocational Rehab on the left shoulder and I had, you know, CMS on the right. You know, saying, keep going, keep going forward with this. Okay. Okay. Renona, how long it'll take before you, when you, you know, once you made the decision, how long before you are be able to be reimbursed for your expenses or the tracks or, you know, the education, things like that, the travel, the conferences? Well, the education part of it was pretty much immediately because I was eligible for post-9-1-1 mon mon monies. So, the BAH part of it was, you know, as soon as the semester started, which was maybe 60 days. Okay. And I was eligible to see that. Now, the track itself, I applied for track one and that took over a year for them to disapprove me. However, I was still allowed to go into the accelerator to see if my business was, you know, go through the process, so to speak. Right. And when I was disapproved for the track one, you automatically approved for track two. But that took over a year before, yeah, before they approved. But that was just for the, I'm sorry, go ahead. Yeah, that was for the track. Right, right, right. But they were still, you were still getting per diem for one piece of it. I was still getting paid. Okay. And they still reimbursed me, you know, some of the expenses I incurred too. Okay, all right, okay. What would you, either one of you, you could take a stab at this. What would you like to say to someone out here who's considering going down this path? Be resilient, don't give up, don't stop at the first roadblock you hit because I know I said it earlier, there's so much out there that is being offered to the veterans, the vocational rehab, you can find a way through this, you know, do your homework, go in, have an idea where you're going with it and, you know, even between Renona and myself, we took slightly different course of actions. But in truth, I think we received a lot of the same stipends and payouts. You know, I got paid to take training. I got paid to do my LLC and my certifications. But when I presented it to my counselor, I did it in tandem with a company that had already been established. And it's worth it, but it's not a walk in the park. You have to put in your time. Renona? Well, one of the things I would tell the veteran is, you know, the first thing you need to do is take an assessment of where you are. And, you know, if you are having a hard time out there in the workforce and you're unable to function, you know, know that there are programs out there that will help you. And once you know that within yourself, you know, and you identify that with whatever path, if it's that you need to be trained into a new skill or you have an idea of your business or maybe you just can't function. And, you know, and you need the independent living track. But you want to feel fulfilled. You want to learn how to crochet. You want to learn how to knit or whatever it is, you know, so that you feel fulfilled and that you're able to help your family. When you decide that and you assess that, then the next step is to prepare and know that you have resources out there that are going to help you. Now, one thing I want to be clear about is that the regulations are clear. They are clear at what you're entitled to. And there are some offices across or not the same type of offices. Your family may go in and talk to a counselor and you may get things like what Rapia was really blessed and some of the things he was able to get. But those things aren't necessarily covered in the regulation. So the regulation and policy is on your side. Prepare, do your homework. And when you're going back and forth with them, you just say, well, doesn't it say right here that I'm entitled to blah, blah, blah? And you show them and then they can't deny that. And if you're not getting resolution, well, if that day you take it to the next level, you take it to the next level. And I remember what I was going to say, there's a liaison office that you can contact, that you can let them know that I'm not getting the support that I need from them. And they'll look at policy, that's all they do. As they'll look at policy, they'll contact that office and they'll say, okay, tell us why you're not supporting this veteran for this ideal or this, that and the other. So you do have a support system out there. Just do assess yourself, see where you are, where you are with your family, how you are functioning out there in society, at the workplace. If you're unable to do certain things, know that there are resources out there to help you so that you can continue. Life doesn't stop because you can't, you can't continue to move forward. So I really wanna emphasize that because there's a lot of veterans out there with EPSD, and certain things, they just feel lost and that there's programs out there for you, nonprofit organizations, all type of things. And this is one excellent program that will help you, what we have will help you. What I like to say in closing, if there's any additional resources that either one of you have that you wanna send to me, I can make sure to include that with the show notes from this particular recording. So that way, wherever we, people find us or find the information, all the accompanying show notes, like for example, Verona, I know you mentioned Benjamin Krause, and I know you have a few other resources that was able to utilize, and that helped you along the way. Same thing with you, Rafa, I know if you've got any other resources that you might can help steer people and guide them, they can do some research on their own while thinking about how to pursue this, that would be helpful. And then I can make sure to include the links to those pages and any other additional notes with the content. Verona? Can I just say one more thing? Sure. Yeah, and also with Eric's program with GovCon, you know, and he didn't ask me to say this, but I just wanna endorse this, is that GovCon is one of the few programs, and I did a lot of research. If you guys are interested in pursuing the federal government sector, you know, the GovCon contract, GovCon process and Eric's presence on YouTube, I found him on YouTube, is excellent. He does snippets, but it's not a whole lot of information. You understand it, you follow his step by step, and I'm telling you, you'd be 50% ahead of, you know, where you need to be when you get ready to enter into the federal government sector. And then your next phase is, of course, with vocabulary rehabilitation, they can help you with the rest, to include paying for any program or services that he offers. So he didn't pay me to say that, I wanted to endorse you on that. No, no, no. Well, you know, one of the things that you mentioned was again, education, right? They're mostly for teaching. And you could, how do you say that? You said they're teaching you what? The educational piece, but not the practical side? Yeah, they teach you the academic, but they let you know how to start your business. You know, it's like, well, how do I become a business owner? How do I enter into the federal government sector? What do I write a solicitation? How do I research? How do I do all these things that you teach? And I would agree with you. I see that, even when I read people's contents, they tell you about the FAR and the rules, and you know, but that doesn't help me to learn how to actually pursue a contract action or an activity, or like Rafa, go out and find myself, someone, company that I can represent and take their product to the market and be able to benefit from it. And I think, you know, Rafa, you did that, and I know you're still in that process. And then, Renaud, I know, you know, working with you, we were able to help a company get right there. We were a match-up company and with an agency. And so I know you're working on that particular project and we've got some more stuff coming up. So listen, I'm happy, I'm happy for the progress that everyone's making. Thank both of you for coming on today and sharing your knowledge and your information. And I just thought it was valuable because, again, I am receiving a lot of inquiries from people that are veterans, and it seems to me that they're not aware these programs exist because if they were, they would have, you know, their inquiries would be different. And so based on the information they're sharing, you know, I know that, I said, look, we've got to grab some people, because even before the two of you, someone else, I know, took advantage of the program, but I never was able to wrestle them down and get that information, but I had heard it before. So there's some other people that are in the community that have done this. I can't remember who they were, but I know that just because it's the two of you, I interact with regularly, or vis a vis through Maria, I knew those two of you at least were two people that I knew that successfully did it. And, you know, we got the reimbursement for the course and everything paid for. So I thought that was great. And again, like I said, I'm not the expert on this particular subject matter. So I said, let me bring in some people who've actually done it, gone through the process, and can share it with others. So I thank you for that. Thank you for your service. And so with that, we're gonna go ahead and close out and I will make sure, like I said, all the notes, send them to me and I will put them and publish them on the website and also wherever we run these videos. Okay? Sounds good? That was great. Thank you so much, guys.