 Recording is on and now it's instantaneous. There's not like a five second in gap Cool, okay So this is the freedom the fellowship of the link call for Friday October 14 2022 so close to being a Friday the 13th But it was not Yeah Yeah, interesting so I'm interested in where everybody's head is well like what's up for you that has anything to do with our little world here Step away for a second Yeah, yeah Yeah, well, I can get started. Yeah, please Yeah, so Let's see. Well, I mean like when I talk about me, so it's like war or a little work Like, you know, like a so yeah, that's I think that's a Yes, so it does Quarterly planning roll map for this year. So it's like a planning season And like promo, you know, this kind of thing trying for promo and Yeah You know, like it's like a period of growth growth in that sense and then the it is I would have plans. Yeah for me, you know, like So I was the way I think about it Yes And I would I it's like In France, but I think it's also in the hour. So I think of it as a recursive Yes, I like on the front. Uh, hey, I just go back news like they find out They go ahead from the editors of the hour chapter And you know for the for the book. Oh good. The one that Matthew's also writing Right. I'm great. Oh, that's right. Are you? Yeah, I'm just gonna say I may have dropped out. I'm my neither I nor my attorney likes the returns of their book contract Oh, really? I have some serious concerns about the publisher In terms of what they're doing and how they're doing it. So I oh, okay. So that's very interesting Uh, I I'll let you make your own decision, but the I have seen better contracts from vanity publishers I know this is an area I play in. Uh, so if you're, you know, if you're an academic and you just need to be published, right? Maybe it's an acceptable thing, but I I saw it and I was like Hey, you know Interesting publishers chasing me for roughly the same material. Yeah, I'm like, okay. I'll take a better payday And use it for that. I you know, I appreciate the perspective they're coming from And where it's going and what it will accomplish But for me as an individual contributing You know a couple hundred hours of work essentially for free I and the only person who makes money off of this that I can tell Unless there is a contract off on the side for the editors Is the publisher? But, you know The people are doing the same thing as I'm not making any of them. Right. But wait, isn't that what you're saying about some works? But Well, they have a couple of works, but in this case, they're essentially it's the They're using an academic publishing model Where the publisher makes all the money and the people who do the work are not benefiting whatsoever, man And then hopefully it's Most of the people who from what I can tell are like Flansian who Have other interests that this might support And that's lovely But they're taking 20 authors who all have pre-existing platforms For pushing and promoting and selling the book which is free publicity for the publisher And then, you know, you know, unless they offered Flansian some dramatically different contract than the one I saw You get a couple free copies of the book and that's really it Flansian and Matthew Lowry are To a group published book And Chris was part of that and then pointed out that the contract did not seem very good for anybody except the publisher So that's the conversation Who is the publisher? it's a Relatively new concern that I can tell they've only put out about two or three books One of which is a book by One of the editors Is it already new? Yeah So what's the meaning of this? Possibly the editors may have a dramatically different contract Where they may see some benefit But I it was like What all this work for if I were an academic I would approach it maybe dramatically differently But even then it's not like this is a publication that Springer or Elsevier or some major academic platform is putting out and it's going to guarantee at least You know 10,000 copies of books or libraries in which case my opinion would be slightly different Yeah Given the size and nature of what this publisher is and what they're doing What's the name of the publisher? Yeah What's the name of the book? I think I had something in it. So that's it. You see now I've been able to say personal knowledge graphs is the name of the book Uh, the book sorry and the An evo village song is the is kind of the instigator I think Where the instigator person is evo village cove He's got a vested interest in Publishing and editing things So he may get some intangibles out of it in the From the academy But the average group of people who end up the literally the boilerplate contract I saw was I saw it and laughed And I I even felt bad sending it to my attorney Who then skimmed through it? I don't think even where the whole thing he responded and said yeah, you should Pass like I I don't know these people so There's no other attachment to say like oh, yeah, that makes out for me. How about you pass on my behalf because I'm like Yeah, I wasn't even worth In his opinion. He was like There's a thing you can go back to and say It's negotiating tactic. I want least, you know, I want favorite nation's status with Every other participant Including the editors. He's like this isn't even worth doing that for so Interesting. Yeah, maybe you don't need your you so you don't negotiate against yourself. You say my contract should be At least the minimum of what everyone else is getting that way if an editor or some other big player comes in Right and says and suddenly they're getting thousands of dollars for their participation at least you get that as well and he's like Yeah, in my case, I just saw it mostly as a reason to Actually finish something like pull something in like a real estate, you know, 20 pages and I actually The term I was concerned about was the one that was the one that is, you know, exclusive publishing rights And like and so on and I was like, well, I actually wanted it to be creative commons Yeah Everything I do is really commons or a badgie right now And uh, they were actually the senior Okay, what about like one year about it? To see publishing rights just so they move sells whatever it will sell And then you you you it just goes to create the commons. You just can do whatever you want. I was like, yeah, some some sphere That's not bad and ostensibly For your part of the participation, you at least are getting pr and publicity for the ad or Exactly, exactly where I was writing and how I was writing and how it fit into the thing It made no sense for me particularly when I've got two other publishers who want to put out A longer full book length saying on the thing I'm working on Well, I am personally, um, like saddened by these just because like the fact that you were in the book Was one of the coolest facts One of the draws Yeah, yeah, so it was like, I mean, I'm kind of, you know, like honestly, you know I would like if Chris is here, you know, so now, okay, that's No, it's fine. There's a lot of people as well. But yeah, I guess I'm I'm just saying this in a First thing you're for sharing second. I'm totally like your book So Well, I I don't know that It's even too much of a loss on their part because I I was doing a history overview That would have been useful and helpful with the audience who was reading All the other pieces But if you looked at the table of contents, mine was by far in a way the thing that did not fit with all the others So, you know, I don't I don't think it's too big a loss for the overall I still want to read it on but Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I'm there. I just got feedback from the haters like the red thing and I have like, I don't know 80 google doc comments and I haven't even looked into them yet This weekend because I they told me not to take action until they have done the whole thing So, you know, I just didn't look because it's like If I don't take action, it's just gonna be useful So this weekend I will take a look and see whether it can be whether the patient is still alive Yeah, right. Let me uh, yeah, let me ask a different question Chris if Chris or anybody if you were to go create a modern version of a book like object That was interesting and woven into the web and all those kinds of things. What publishing method tool company would you use? I would publish it myself. I've got enough experience Yeah, yeah using using Some of the models they're using because they're publishing it also and I'm not sure how they're gonna gate keep The website portion of it, but ostensibly they're gonna publish it as a knowledge graph on the web in Concert with the book itself But I'm not sure how they're gonna gate keep the open web part of it Because once it's out there on the open web, it's, you know, free for all fair game I perhaps they could Define an hour That's my beach, but you know for Around go ahead. It's like the Cory doctor of stuff, right? He does the thing where he does normal publishing for a lot of this work and it's also a lot of creative comments on the web. Yeah Or or he'll do what flouncing essentially did and the publisher will take exclusive rights in some area like the physical print Or reprint one of the I one of the clauses in here that was really sad is they not only wanted my thing As a piece of a broader hole for the book But they also wanted exclusive eternal rights to my chapter to publish Any place they felt like and I'm like No, that's that's horrible. Like suddenly I become a famous author. I'm Stephen King and then you now own the free standing publishing rights to do with whatever you want like You know, they they look really just way over asked for everything. Yeah, that's really unusual so Yeah, perhaps because So, you know, like this is like the uh The new one they are like But you know for what it's worth. They seem very open to teaching the terms when I push back against the you know Well, the terms they offered were so bad literally like you're negotiating against yourself from the start Just Yeah Well, it's like And the other thing is from now until november 15 or so One month is like an average of the hour two years two years in november the first cold So I'm there's a few things I'm really hopeful I hope you'll be able to get done in sheep That may actually make it a little more friendly hopefully Um, I'm clear. Let's see And so that's that's what I have in my bag Sounds awesome And now Yeah, who else would like to check in and what's up in your world? I want to talk about it, but the um And the tweet with the Kind of editor software I mentioned the other week may be a fun thing to talk about that I've seen pop up recently Which one? um So the french research group I'm trying to remember The name of it, um I don't remember which one you were pointing to Yeah, I said, uh, I didn't know it Which I haven't heard or seen about it, um Until early this week um And I actually had kind of a fun name Yeah And this is Cosmized So this is the context And I'm knowing it now, right So this is our trick to rate. This is um Gotcha Yeah And and and kappa basically doesn't touch the original files. It basically lets you visualize what's in a file, right? Get it But Yeah, it seems very like a major approach But it was also, I think that that sort of approach that Yeah, I think we all wish more tools were taking in the space of Giving a data store of Basic text and we'll do something interesting with it. Mm-hmm But that's probably one of the more interesting things I've seen or and I haven't even fully been able to play around with it yet Um And then you know on top of that I've been trying to Massage a few quirky things that have popped up with the recent update of obsidian for me Have you looked at cosmic? Um Yeah, this one Yes, I'm in contact with Paul Roney the developer and probably gonna run a podcast with him In fact, I should I should run a podcast episode with some of you all um And it seems like there's a bunch of visual note-taking Things a cosmic Origin story is is explicitly tied to commonplace books by the way chris All are whether they know or no. Yeah, that's that's true, but some of them are like understand that Here's a post Here's a post where Paul talks about Some of this stuff But I'm seeing a whole bunch of different platforms and apps and things in this space that are harder to distinguish from each other Another one is fermat From batu And I I need I need better, uh I'm framing in my head for how these things all fit next to each other Yeah, I mean, I really go back to the map topic Five times that we were talking about last month. That's true. Um Yes, uh, I mean I really like On bias because you know like a brutal error takes is like standing also from marion or moe and like, you know a basic formats Just to do to pick from there But so okay, so the way I will The way I've been exploring this space is like very nice and tools that are compatible With this idea of like, you know, play playing files on a file system or a poster so those are being like and the nice thing about those of course is a relatively low risk of a lot in them because it's not a I need like ease of trying them out because once you have one that is of marion files or Then you can try like Like So that that would be the iteration. I need to most interested in life And the thing here is Has anybody heard of standoff Me and yeah, you know colleagues? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he's great. He's amazing and he's the standoff Properties And standoff properties basically said hey, you should put metadata Outside of the data file that trying to squeeze them all into the data file just messes things up Exactly. I mean H And it's coded how close is codex to being working code. I've not seen it Yeah, I mean, no, it's really working. The thing is that it's not open source And he has taken on like a second engineer Every year I think And I support them, but I need to check on that I guess I've been playfully saying, you know, like we will have an open source core It's so I mean anyway, because like when I see the demos and so on he's just I mean, honestly, uh Times of wise he's in Australia. He's made it work for him. Uh, so To mention like he will be uh, he's He's great. I really like yeah, but yeah, the open source thing, of course, he's from an academic research background But also in the business You know, so he's not fully convinced that And then another one that's that's making the rounds a lot of time Yeah, yeah, uh, we from uh, skin synthesis. I mean not from him from, you know, rubber taste And Yeah, grim iverson and a couple others. Yeah Torhava Yeah, the one thing that concerns me and I have saw it earlier this week is they're also not playing the open source But we're being kind of open enough And it's the same sort of issue that could be aimed at, um Obsidian as well is We're we're open the way twitter was open in the early days But we're doing it in a way that we could literally close the gates tomorrow and you're all screwed If you decide what is open enough today Would you decide if you leave tomorrow and this breaks what clay shirk used to nicely call the plausible promise Yeah, which is hey, this thing is going to be available open source forever Whatever you contribute will be, you know, put back in the in the public domain Is the city an even open source? And what is the city open source? No No They also cut if i'm not mistaken. I think they come from was it notion? Or some other bigger corporate background That is a totally closed source model. So I mean they they do this and they've got a plugin architecture That allows them to you know, hopefully they go make the word press grow and leave things open as an ecosystem from here on out, but It's too easy for these companies to come in and take not only mind share and mind space Yeah But then you know, they take all the developers and then And then as a developer you either sell out to them to make something back from your thing Or you just yeah, it is very close to an enclosure of the commons I mean In my mind these, uh, you know if an open source community aspects Uh for our close, uh Our close colleagues Completely I think we went into a Interesting Yes Bentley, did you want to check in Yeah, I know I know it was like damn it. Everything's a tab now Uh, yeah, I was uh the main thing that's on my mind right now is uh the list of the tools for the tools So we may not be discussing that today and that's Fine, um, so the Kanako debate lab and marketing plan for I may have mentioned it that We're breaking off the committees and so one committee is for our Debate tools, which are very similar to tools. We figured we'd include our tools for thought as one of the categories in our systems So, you know, we just want to coordinate with everyone How we're storing and modifying that data and So Yeah, and I'm sorry that Matthew isn't on this call or can't make this one, but he's hot and heavy on the same sort of thing. So yeah Happy to open the the can of worms and talk about it now In particular if there's questions that are like near the surface for you that you want to float with us No, I I think it's an open discussion So it's probably best to wait till Matthew's back just so we don't Since it's a passion And we want to be aligned Yeah, but yeah Other than that, I'm just listening and I'll pop in if I can Bring anybody. Yeah, sweet. Um, I'll do a short check in. Um, and uh I just came back from two weeks in europe. Uh one week was at this really really lovely conference called unfinished Uh, which is unfinished.ro. There's an american knockoff called unfinished live Uh done by frank mccourt and his like wealthy People which i'm angry at So and that happened a week before This unfinished in romania in in new york, but then finished in romania is 10 years old Um, I tried to be sort of mediator between the two, but they didn't treat the romanians very nicely Anyway, the romanian thing is more of an art and technology and serious issues kind of all mixed together Um, first three people I met were young brazilians. One of them is his name is mccool Uh, it turns out singer-songwriter de caras and winds up being our wandering minstrel around the campus where this conference had held Narrating and singing fluidly as if he had just invented the whole narrative like just so talented Then I meet a young uh two young brazilians who are rappers singer-songwriters instagram and tum tiktok stars whose Photography skills are already off the charts when he started like flicking through his thing But he has a really bad stutter And so when he wraps it's completely fluid and fabulous and they both feel like really good singer dancers In lots of different genres, but then you stop and talk and he has like A big impediment speaking and they were just lovely So made friends with them and then like mccool immediately like and what do you do? Well, like I do this brain thing. I do this he's like and then he starts asking Perfect questions about the brain. So I open up my brain. We get the talk and it was really really interesting So the week was like that On a on a broad campus. I gave a keynote that i'm looking forward to seeing online Which was how I got the the backstory of how I got the thesis for the speech I recorded and presented two years earlier when when unfinished was virtual And that speech is called trust is the only way forward So basically that then the next week I went to latwinia because I had put out my my network Hey, I'm I'm going to be in europe. What else should I do? And this little conference about management development being held in the second largest city in latwinia kaunas said Come here. That's really at the top of the program. I was I was the first keynote And and I had they did not record the speeches so that one's not going to show up online unless I reproduce it But I like that a lot because I got to talk about how We're in a titanic battle over the narratives in our heads And how all the stuff that we care about here kind of plays into that because And I just got off the alpha zoom With a fellow who has a game John and Bentley he mentioned that he knows you John den Yeah, who has a game ish thing called policy keys Um, and we had a good conversation. I I it was very interesting. We we were resonating on a bunch of different interesting things I don't know if you want to talk about uh any of your actual interactions with him, but um Uh, it's been pretty small Much to add yet, but You know kind of in the space so partly what policy keys seems to have is he's trying to gamify Civic discussions around policy issues. So there'll be a policy question on the table Uh, like there should be there should be should there be an employer's living wage tax credit Is one that he showed me and then he'll deconstruct that into a series of pro and con arguments And then take different people's points of view and when you play the game you take different parties points of view on the issue And then somehow through magic. I didn't we didn't have time to go through Um, you figure out which of the different issues that are numbered on the sides are the bottleneck issues or the hot issues for each of the constituency and that gets interesting And there's a bunch of other stuff there, but I I I was coming back to The idea that if he opened that up as a playground as a sandbox architecture of some sort Then he could connect to society library to system.com To kumu to a bunch of other tools To enhance all of the goodies that are that are kind of in the mix for what he's trying to do Because he's trying to get people to slow down and say We seem to agree on these four things and disagree on these two things Maybe we're closer to each other than we think and we can agree on something So pretty pretty pretty interesting there What he's got is not elegant like the software is not beautiful and he's not a coder But I like I like what he's building. It's it's directionally really really interesting So that by way of me checking in Yeah, yeah, I was just oh is this uh, sorry. I was just collecting the links from this conversation I guess his website this is the smallest of these things just isn't set up yet So All right, yeah so mostly rear-life work since the last time and for those of you that don't know I work in the privacy space and between various gdr court cases Virginia privacy regulation and changes to California privacy regulation I've been putting a lot of time reading law documents um lawyers documents But beyond that I did share a link. I spotted this uh project saying that fyi That looked like it was very much in our wheelhouse I don't know what our policy is for inviting people or how we handle it or what the tools are, but uh I got it this This person might be interesting to invite. She would be great And she's showing up in conversations for at beta works where they're doing the tools for thinking camp. She's uh A person we're probably going to approach for a podcast episode through them. So I don't know how that showed up, but Um, it'd be great to invite her if you want Yeah, uh, I don't have any of her contact information. So she showed up in your conversations You should probably be the one doing fire. Cool Um, but yeah, I found the same that where I can pretty interesting um, I did check out the I guess as koto slabs thing And tried to dig into that a little it seems very links to the blockchain um, which You know, I'm not a huge fan of It's a flag of some color Yeah, it is It's not necessarily like the end of the world or you know, I'm doing the project but it certainly does raise a flag of some color Yeah, beyond that just been trying to uh, fix some technical issues in my archiving tool for tweets my big My big problem, um, that I'm trying to solve with this is I do a lot of my writing on twitter And a lot of conversations through tweets because I one of the reasons is because I like retweeting and adding comments quote tweets Um, but then of course people delete their quote tweets not out of like an intent to delete a particular tweet tweet But because uh an increasing number of people out of the policy to just delete their old tweets That's weird. Um It has to do with the fact that um It's now sort of standard operating procedure for Any journalist or media personality or writer with a sufficient audience or youtuber with a sufficient audience If they rise into the crosshairs of the alt-right media machine Like thing number one they do is the alt-right media machine starts going through their old tweets And they pick something to pick an issue with yeah Right and take it out of context Turn it into a big deal and try and get the person fired. It's uh, wow um so I would like to capture those tweets locally where they are not going to be concerned when we tweet something that Will cause a problem for a person between archiving them, but the problem is that It's very difficult to get on page tweets to look like tweets on the site And the embed tools that twitter provides has two problems. The first is Their api contract is that tweets that are embedded Even though the embed includes a block quote of the tweet if the If the tweet is embedded It calls back to the api and if that tweet is deleted it will hide the block quote um And the other problem is that uh Just the style and stuff looks pretty man. Um, so and it's very difficult to do But then on top of that there's like features that I want to put in where like now you can see edited tweets to give a list back to those um But it's it's quite difficult to capture it all and get the archive version to look precisely like it should look Um, and it seems like everyone who is trying to do this is just roll their own version And like guys too messy to share and I'm like honestly just give me just the test rules. Um That's all I really want. Um But yeah, so I've been digging it on that and trying to get that working better. I there's twitter is so like Weirdly ephemeral on a lot of places and our terms of service is really aggressively against archivists. Yeah, it's some really nasty ways uh But I figure as long as I sort of pack it together or not. They're not gonna come after me And if they hear there's a useful tool in around it fun fact WordPress secretly archives all tweets also automatically For a couple years back Um, and they just never got it was never noticed. Um, but I'm not even WordPress Hey, yeah, what are you just interesting? Yeah, what are you just saying? Uh Possibility will be to like ban two other, you know, archivists who want to uh, recently Archive tweets they have seen right? I think from the point just from the argument that, you know, I use sir has seen a tweet read it interact with it cool. How cool personally copy and paste it Uh, then you go have the argument, you know, archiving it When there's an addition to archive is fine. And there's a little tool to do this. Um, There's a little tool that work around API auditions to an extent I think uh, my And you know, like, you know, I run more a party which I cross both for service That for example, when you read when you read it, it does Essentially reproduce the content of the tweet that we repeated or both we did in the failures So then of course you have a copy there, but we are deciding but that's really working and we are sort of doing this We know that we're bored of the line maybe but in a right way in the right way it seems Yeah, I mean, that's the problem right like without the styling it's It's much more difficult to read especially when you're dealing with repeats and the twitter API I don't know if it's intentional or not, but it makes very difficult Right, we're like everything difficult Yeah, you can retrieve a tweet but then you have to make a separate query to get some of sometimes to the poetry sometimes not If there's an image you have to make a separate query for the image And if there's a video you have to make a separate query for the video and a separate query for the audio Um, it's really overly complicated and most of the API packages out there are Not, um, really that effective And the other problem is like It's impossible to use the embeds at scale, right? If I want to have a collection of tweets by a tweet thread um the way that the API is set up is that By default it adds the the script call every time And you could get around that but it's not easy and then on top of that If you have separate tweets that you want to sort together on a page Each of those embeds query back all of this stuff from twitter and it makes the page incredibly slow um So like it's just not possible to use their embeds if you're using maybe two Or more tweets on a page Well, yeah, I know it's in the hour So an hour of pages has like a hundred tweets under your phone to embed all You can take your you get a ball face Yes, uh, so meter, you don't meter. No, don't lend me there. No. Oh, so meter is essentially, uh, A It's basically duck. It's duck duck go for twitter No, it's actually an alternate From them for twitter be it on top of like my with the api. I'm also a vision api, which is It means just means they do the stuff that need to do to make it fast It's still like jumping through all these media pools. Yeah. And by the way, I just spent like two weeks essentially earlier Actually the first two so this month very much Did with the api issues for for the other one because just keep making it more complicated. Yes So, yeah meter actually is open source and My It's actually written in I think in elixir or something weird, but it's open source and it will be Work shaking whether the study they do and so on perhaps is very useful Because it's pretty effective. A lot of people it's very fast. Well Okay, I'll check that out I didn't realize that I just assumed that this was not open source because it looked like the sort of piece of complexity a little complexity that it would That is to sort of pick somebody we're trying to sell, but okay, this is useful Yeah, yeah, no, and these it seems pretty solid And they have They are pushing that well, but now we don't make them If I remember to they they um dovetail with instagram And I've used them as a means in the past of pulling photo URLs to be able to download originals of photos Yes, you know full-scale and size which instagram Hates you to do I'm curious though since you've looked at it arm and it's been a couple months since I've Checked into You know twitter archive abilities, but if you had to recommend a poor man's version of it to someone with no coding skill Do you have a favorite? No, I didn't I'd be using it I mean there are a few things like thread reader app that you can pull up put a thread into And they'll create a page with the full thread on it and then you can archive that to like the wayback machine or something Yeah, it's really interesting for a couple of reasons Um, I don't personally like it, but I don't mind when people use it I do a lot of putter threads and people use it on my threads all the time. That's fine. I don't care Um, but there are people who feel That Threader is stealing their work off of Twitter and Well, I don't agree with that position. I can understand where they're coming from Um, but the more the more difficult problem for me And this is especially My big problem with a lot of these Twitter archiving tools is that they divorce it from the context Right, so you don't really understand these tweets as individual tweets Which I think it's important for reading twitter threads and you don't have the opportunity to interact with individual tweets, right? What I want from a twitter tool is not just that it archives it But that there's a retweet button on there or a like button on there or a reply button on there That brings you back to twitter and that's what's usually lacking in everything but the embed and twitter has like They have what they call intense links, which makes it very easy to manage that Once you have all of the twitter information But collecting it all and assembling it all into something that looks good and is readable is Yeah, there's just not a lot that's done it. Um, even the in-game wrappers are not great either and it's just a real mess Yeah So I wonder if we could I mean, I really have to to discuss because uh, the eye of our world is doing Akali And you know, we are living with the same thing. It's like we're basically doing I wonder if we'll share code or share approaches Or at least map the space and try to find I also know two people from social call that you you may be It's two who is a leader archivist for Stanford I think and he's been doing he actually did a busy on Akali social media I I just found out every week super interesting and I'm also another person in social call Johnny who is a now doing research as well Could you uh, you could do it over? Matter most could you send me their info? um, because yeah Send me however you prefer to be pulled in lcc You're I don't think I don't think I have your email, but you can send me their email your email lcc all of us because I agree it would be nice to coordinate on this and this has always been like, um A problem I've seen in archivists in the archivist realm, right? When I used to work for a set of registry to media We had this problem too where we wanted to archive tweets and we ended up for the most part I think basically just building a way to automatically screenshot them, which is all right Well Yeah, but he has a potential Yeah, particularly close to our from like Andrew and I Sorry, I should say close. I meant okay, so So, uh, sorry, um, I wanted to say On the question of what is this is way You know, you know, the easiest way I know but for what is word is a sign up for a cross-polter I come to the failures And I'm essentially retreat and our quote call to it. Everything you want to say It is basic, but it is very It is to be a month to two clicks. How does the Which is wait, sorry, which figure you signing up for you to say? Uh, just a cross-polter for the failure sign up for the failures For which Yeah, the master Is that failure is like, okay, so open source Oh, okay Yeah, it's actually uh activity about You know, uh, oh, so you're like putting twitter. Yeah, but that also breaks all the links like yeah There's a lot of ways to do basic archiving where you capture the data in the tweet, but not Uh, but it doesn't get the full data and usually the media is stripped out if there's media there I read what I guess sorry like I would like me to say is The cross-polter is your basics, but uh, I I I run with a cross-polter more partly and It is our intent. This is a new is like to add features to first dump All posts in any format you want to this like, you know in our combative Like a repository of of files and second, you know add this feature essentially Get extra data from twitter and dump it as well Or uh idea idea they provide an entry from them. We could set a meter for this So, you know, like it has like a 1.5 thousand users That's not huge, but Are you Fluncin moa party or is that part of a bigger collective? Yes, this is part of the festival Which is a group associated with our we're not really our because you know, what is man? Uh, a v-man. No, okay. Yeah, so he's efficient. You know efficient clouds. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we run it It's the uh Okay, I think I knew he was part of it too at some point. Yeah. Yeah. So this is uh, I mean, it's a We haven't added a word. Uh, it's basically works two clicks done and maybe it's uh optical Do you see it remains choosing a needs as many the favors? Like it happens Very often, but I am also the admin just a lot of I need to say I need my plugs Which are well intentioned for a social call Which I think is a very interesting instance and bias Well, I I didn't start it but I joined it and I just became an admin because uh, you know, I was new Or any other But anyway, I will be super happy to work in space because I think I got all And in particular an account too, which is ethical or social, you know, completely or Or, you know, nothing other than able and that also can make the argument We are saving the user's data because it's the user's data And the user has has told us that they want this So if you don't like it You can complete the phrase Yeah, I mean that's sort of one of the interesting things I was trying to dig into as well, which is You can export your entire database of twitter from twitter, right? You've been asked for a data check out and it gives you a lot of data Yeah takes the day usually I saw some tools that are like readers for that database, which is Interesting though, not really what I want either um And so that was like the other thing that I wanted to do once I got this sort of tweet capturing process done um, I could Oh, I'll take a look at that. I could um Essentially just dump it into like so strip out dms, which I assume are in there and Dump it into a github repo and then just have like a local copy of my own twitter built by static site generator Exactly. Yeah Crawl the links in those tweets and archive them and opens up a whole bunch of other useful pieces That I would like to do completely I mean it's a more part of the attention is to do this real time So you don't have to deal with the bullshit. Sorry of what I'm going and if waiting for a day I don't know for someone to push out on twitter And the other thing is like we also want to do other things like If you use more a really small party or a similar thing and I do the same and we both have and we Befriend each other in twitter. Well, the tool could make us friends also in favour Which then it works as a collision tool for moving from twitter to twitter 2 from instant to instant two Or whatever else we want to do Uh, so essentially, you know, the tool can use this notice on the social graph to uh Help the users. Uh, yeah, very likely to help the users, uh, actually make moves they want to See oh, that's a very slow I don't think that is the right one now right now sort of sidebar So it should be, uh In the hour Save my Yes, but there isn't going on Because all of us are using it all at once After what? Because we're all using it all at once. You think hopefully but No, actually it's like, uh, I mean to uh to move to a different server Yes And right I was just popping up the search but you need me to it. Awesome. Okay Yeah, actually, uh, for some reason I have it See two of the pool, uh, so, uh, yes, it doesn't go to the helper And the account is this one. I know the uh, oh wait, they changed the account Actually I'm using our anyway, uh He It is it's the top of the arse what we say And we should we should negotiate or talk about a better time for these calls. Yes So Wednesday, you're saying would be good Anybody else is Wednesday a hard stop or an okay thing for anybody else? Oh, it depends on the time, but that's Like to be clear friday is not terrible. It's just this exact hour That's terrible, right? Um for me, uh, but yeah, I mean Wednesday, uh After 2 p.m. Eastern I'm usually pretty clear And I need I know we I know we got like we're going late for some people Well, we were trying to move around for, um Hypothesis whaley, um, but he's only made one call and I'm like, let's let's sort of move back to someplace where we're really comfortable Uh Yeah, for me friday sometimes, um, it tends to Go a bit more with like social thing because it's a friday evening here And sometimes I'm like, you know, um Like I really want to make it, but then it's like, you know, yes International symbol for cocktail hour Um sounds great So so thursdays when and wednesdays I can find room. I just want to sort of land at some place where it's uh convenient for most of us, um So I I could do wednesdays at 10 a.m. Thursdays at 10 a.m. Pacific and here my times are pacific Yeah And we don't have matthew on the call and he was the one who was trying to coordinate us So we need to pick something. Let's let's let's go back and forth on the matermost channel for the fellowship And uh, maybe propose wednesday at 10 see if see how that floats for everybody and then go from there Yeah, it's very possible. I have I have a lock in on wednesday at that time unfortunately Uh, so wednesday Wednesdays when would work for your arm? Oh, so you said from basically from 11 o'clock pacific. So from 2 p.m. On on wednesday would work for you uh Is that correct? Yes. Yeah, so that's yeah That's what um Yeah from 11 a.m. Pacific onward. So how's 11 a.m. Pacific for other people on wednesdays? Good for chris bentley Um, what why don't we start by proposing 11 on wednesdays and then see where that goes? Go go go on the on the thread and shall we stop this call at the top of the hour? The rest of us want to stay and keep going for a bit on this I'll have to jump to you. So okay. Let's melt the call. Uh, let's melt the call now And that's good because stupid jitzy doesn't let me record more than an hour at a time And then I don't have two parts to upload and simplifies life so much I wonder if you have the invitation now, you know, do you see? Do you want to just stay on the call for a long time to see if it breaks? I think we just passed on our future here It's counting the oil time right counting the time of the Yes, but I didn't turn the recording on right at the start, but good question. It's three minutes. Yeah, I can say three minutes for sure We'll be excited Cool How does how does the internet archive solve the twitter archival problem because they They give a big about this, right? Yeah Yeah, so It's interesting right because they have a very different In they have a very different Set of goals around their archiving right, which is they don't really care about preserving the social engagement I think that they just want a record of it. Right. So where they do preserve tweets Um, and they've gone back and forth on this and I think some users are preserved and some users are not Um, they do so using the same way they preserve like they just take each tweet as an individual webpage And they preserve it as work files the same way that they preserve the rest of the way Which is fine for what they're trying to do, right? Yeah, but it sort of does rob it of anything else I mean that in fact most people don't even use I make Twitter is so being consistent about which Accounts are not twitter the archiving is not very consistent about which accounts archives and when And so very often when people want to archive tweets for themselves They use like archive dot is or whatever URL it's sitting at these days or something like that Or you can use something like rhizomes archival tool or that type of thing Um, but in all those cases what's generating is a work which is if you're not familiar with it It's basically like a baked version of the web experience. And so it's not super useful for sharing outside of Like viewing as an archive um Whereas what I want out of my tweets is a more, uh More more contextualized Yeah, yeah makes sense Very interesting And and the archive has open lunch on every friday and since pandemic you can join through zoom. So feel Like like fridays you can just show up for Lunch with the archive. They usually have a guest speaker They usually even have a musician Five minutes if you join it five minutes before the before noon pacific on fridays You will get a 10 minute musical performance by somebody they've invited into to entertain And I did I did a guest talk about my brain. I used to the brain of the archive So I didn't realize that that had gone remote To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of san francisco, but the web archive was one of the few locations that I really really enjoyed every time I've been there. Yeah It's a fascinating project Yeah, I'm uh, Jason Scott, right? Uh, he's very active and Yes Yeah, I would say I got um Actually, I tweeted about this but like way back during Uh During gamer gate one of the people who was dealing with abuse was one of the people who would have eventually go to set up Um block party, which is the shared block list application Um, and at the time I was just off being a games journalist So I was very vocal talking about it and trying to support folks were getting abuse thrown at them by the whole gamer gator mess, um But the person who was managing the block list Just went and added a whole bunch of people to it. They didn't really know But they were like this person's being involved and I don't know who they are therefore. They must be bad Um, so that block list ended up in block party app and when, um Uh, the person we were just talking about Jason, right text files on twitter It shows how much time I spend on twitter. I can remember people's handles better. Yeah But he recently got under a bunch of abuse because somebody spread some misinformation about the web archive and so he put on a block list and I got blocked Um, which is frustrating. Yeah, because I really enjoyed sort of feeding I don't even interact with it. This is the problem with that and it is, you know There's a whole other conversation to talk about automated blocking tools and why we definitely need them But on the other hand, they're going to be frustrating Very much so yes, and uh, this is the right or the brilliant for it I look for the favorites house. Just imagine