 Coming live by the state of clean energy, and I'd like to do a shout out to our sponsor, the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum and also our funder, the Hawaii Natural Energy Institute. So I'm really lucky today to have the legacy found the legacy refoundations every two founders, the co-founders. I have Bill Coney. And I have Suzanne Oterra, and they're the co-founders. And kind of the tagline of this show is building reefs today to feed generations forever. So let's find out what that's all about. So first of all, Bill, why did you found the legacy refoundations? Tell us a little bit about that. That's a great question. I grew up in the islands and I remember as a kid what the marine life was like in the coral. And as I got older here, I realized that things were not going to be the same. When I retired about six, seven years ago, I realized that things had really taken a nose dive. And I'm not a scientist, I'm a technical person, but I realized there was a problem. And I came up with an idea of trying to go out and try to rebuild some of the reefs in front of where I live. Because I now have grandkids, and my thought was if I could maybe get a little patch of reefs to come back the way it was, I could take them out and show them Papa Willy's reef. So I started out as a dream. And through that process, I went to the state to get permits. I worked as a consultant with a company called, was it the Memorial Reef International, who was doing artificial reef building, and they were attempting to do in Hawaii. After a couple years of working with them, I realized that there was an issue out there far beyond just building artificial reefs. They've gone on doing a great job around the world. But working through the scientists that they had, I realized that there was a problem and that maybe we could fix it. They came to me and said, you're a business guy, we're scientists, let's work together. And so we, or I decided that point to try to build a coral restoration lab. During that time, I ran into Suzanne on a coral reef. That was my next question. Yeah, we ran into each other and we were both scuba divers and we were on doing a beach cleanup one day. And she was over here on vacation and had done coral restoration work. I thought that's fantastic, actually had experience. He's a retired physician, so she has a medical background. So we went out for coffee and I said, why don't you come out here and let's open up the lab. So you got to do some triage on the reefs. That's exactly the case. So where did you get your experience on building reefs previously? I worked with the coral restoration foundation in Florida as a volunteer. Yeah, we're also in Florida. It's a nice spot. Yeah, it is a nice spot. I was actually considering moving over there and then doing a full time volunteering. Right. So I was scouting that area. And in between that scouting, I came here for a vacation and then found this opportunity to do it full time through, you know, from the ground up. Hey, excellent. Excellent. So one of the things I'm curious about is, you know, from your website, why will this feed people and generations in the future? I mean, what's the magic sauce about reefs? How do they do that? That's a great question. The issue is right now our reef are dying off. It's no surprise to anybody from what's seen the news. We've lost 60, 70% of the reefs around the world. But they also support the reef fish that are there, which support the larger fish. For us in Hawaii, it's unfortunate, but it's not life-threatening. We have Costco, we have places we can buy food to fish. But in villages and islands like Fiji and Samoa and then the South Pacific islands, the people depend on the reefs. I had a chance to talk with the prime minister of Papua New Guinea. And he said his number one concern was feeding his people because he'd lost all his reefs. So it's a serious problem. Our goal is to go down to these areas, take the technology that we've learned and perfect it here at this lab and basically open up coral reefs on there. So tell us about a coral nursery. I mean, how does that work? Well, we have a bunch of baby corals. We have a bunch of baby corals through the process of coral fragmenting, which is something that she learned to do in Florida. We take the really strong, resilient corals that are existing right now. After the bleaching events, whatever is left is sort of nature's cream of the crop. So we take those and refragment them into tiny little pieces of size of your thumbnail and then glue them onto little rocks. And I think we have a picture here. If we could bring up slide two is a great representation of what it looks like. There we go. Look like chocolate chip cookies or like muffins. Just about. But they're little baby corals and they're doing great. And this is a shot of our lab manager down there, Andrea. And those are our little babies. So that's the technology that we use. It's not that complicated. It's been around 20 years. What we're trying to do is make it practical and easy to do. So we have containerized lab modules that we'll be building. And we're looking to do this Fiji at Fiji first next year. And then beyond that, Sullivan Islands up in the Guinea or in Indonesia, Caribbean and eventually Mediterranean. So can you actually grow enough seeds like this to repopulate a reef? I mean, it seems like, you know, I mean, reefs are big. So do they like self-propagate or how do you get new strains in there? They do. But through the process of the coral fragmentation, basically what nature takes 20 years to do, we can do in two to three years. So granted, we cannot replace thousands of acres of reefs. But if we do pockets along the coastline, they will eventually grow together. So that's the idea. And also we're using these resilient corals. So they hopefully will stand the heating events, the Fiji events that we're going to see in the next 50 to 100 years. So what's the hope? I mean, are you seeing resilient coral out there? Are they kind of adapting and how do you find them? Well, after a bleaching event, whatever's left, we consider it the strongest of a bunch. So we take those to the fragmentation process. And also in our last, when you use techniques of spiking the heat during the day, we can actually make them stronger. And I call it assisted evolution. Our scientists don't like that term, but it is what I call it. It makes sense to me. But we speed up the process of evolution that's been doing for millions of years. Coral is resilient. And given time, it can adapt on its own. The problem we've seen the last 1500 years is these coral bleaching events are happening so fast and they're so intense, coral can't keep up with it. What is a coral? I hear coral bleaching. I think of Clorox or something like that. I mean, what causes it? I'll tell you what. I'm going to ask Susan to answer that. That's a good technical question. Yeah. So coral bleaching, the coral works is an animal and it has inside a microalgae. That gives it the color. And they work in symbiosis. So the microalgae does the photosynthesis and produces, depending on the species, I understand between 10 and 30% of their food, of the energy. So they're a vital part of the coral. And when the conditions are not right, that little algae just get expelled from the coral. So then the coral loses the color and they look white, which is just a skeleton. If that happens, just like when you're starved, you can handle no food for a little bit. And then if too much time goes by, then the coral dies. Okay. So basically, yeah, we've seen how you fix them. So can you tell us more about your program and how you're detecting these things? Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that we came up with, it was an idea or a way of evaluating products and services that are out there. And we realized besides the bleaching and the heat events that we're having to deal with, a lot of the stressors that coral see are man-made. In fact, the majority of them are. So when you add all that up, it becomes the problem for coral. We can't change the climate issues. We can't change what man does. So we come up with a program that we call the Reef Smart. And if you could pull up slide four, this is a certification that we will give a product or a service that we take the product and we evaluate it with scientists. And if we feel that it's something that's appropriate to be around reach and it won't harm them, then it's a product we will enforce. And there are companies that have services that are on land that have nothing to do with the water, but if their runoff can affect the water. So basically this is something that we want to look at for any product, any company, sunscreens, wetsuits and things like that. We've run across a wetsuit that is very reef safe and we've certified it as a Reef Smart product. One of the things we like about this is the extra flotation. It allows people to like prone. And if we could jump to slide seven. Sorry, we're jumping around. I'm sorry, not seven. Why don't you go to five and show. Yeah. What the problem is. And this is a big issue that we have in Hawaii besides the sunscreen issues. People, you know, naturally when they stand up, they're going to stand on live coral and it's, it's basically an harm. So when the floating wetsuit, and this is a company called Airtime Watertime, these wetsuits basically allow you to lie prone and that's very, very comfortable way to watch coral. It's very difficult to stand up. You can dive down. You can take a look at the coral just like you may have in your house, but it allows a snorkeler, particularly an inexperienced one to relax and feel comfortable and not stand on the coral. And again, because of the comfort level, there's less panic and they tend to enjoy the experience a lot more. So this is a particular product we've run across. We're endorsing with our program. We feel it's real important. We wouldn't love to see these wetsuits all throughout the state of Hawaii. So when we're prepping just before we started the interview, you're telling us about this West. And it also has some safety features that are really interesting. We've identified a PFD by the Coast Guard, but it doesn't give you a few pounds of flotation. And from my experience and an experience of clients have used it, it allows for a much more relaxed situation. And a lot of drownings happen because of panic. Even experienced divers, when they start to panic, you go downhill very, very quickly from there. And the experiences that we've seen with the people that use these wetsuits, that's just not the case. People are very relaxed. And even if they do completely panic or pass out, you generally will roll over and face up. So there is a degree of safety that comes along with the wetsuit that we're real thrilled about. Yeah, it sounds like a great thing to have. It is. I would think the Navy would be interested in that. For example, a man overboard situation. Yeah. If the guy's treading water, all you see is a head. But if you have the whole body and it's in, you know, like either a yellow suit or a red suit, they actually see them in the water. Right, right. And we have the adult suits of the red versions. And then if we could go to slide seven, it'll be a little bit more of a little bit of a, a slight variation that are bright yellow and blue. Yeah, there you go. So really easy to see your kids when they get in the water, but you're right. If somebody fell overboard, I've gotten into trouble. They're pretty. But again, it gives you a degree of safety, a degree of comfort and more importantly, protects the coral, which is the reason we gave it that the certification. So how long is the, how long you've been going on this project? I guess it'll be a three years in April, we met. actively at this for a little over two years out here. And it's been an exciting ride, it's been real interesting. So, have you deployed any of these? The nurseries? Or nurseries here in Hawaii? Not yet, not yet. We're looking to do one in Fiji, hopefully sometime this year, later in the year. It's a big project. In fact, if you wanna jump to slide eight, there's a rendering of what they will look like. We spent a great deal of time engineering this out and working with scientists and engineers. But what you see here is the tanks are basically the coral nurseries, that's where we grow our little babies. The tanks on either side, the containers on left and right are wet labs and dry labs where we do the actual cutting and work. And then we do the dry labs where we do the assembly and the concrete mixing. The container on the backside is sleeping quarters for our scientists and the mental office. That little radar dish up there, satellite dishes, connecting all the equipment and temperature sensors back to our scientists here in Hawaii so that we can remote control and deal with any kind of issues that are going on. And the goal is to set up these all around the world but basically when we get a lab there, we work with the local people. It isn't just us there, we bring them in and we have buy-in and the project we're looking in Fiji where the local chiefs and the folks would love to work with us. And the hope is if we're down there for about two years, that's enough to get the reef started and we'll continue on with them. And probably in two to five years, they should return enough of the reefs that should return their fishing grounds that they once had. So what about local permitting and these man-made barriers that we have? What's been your experience? Is that gonna be an issue? Like for example, here in Hawaii, it takes quite a long time to get any kind of a project going and especially along the shoreline. So what's been your experience there? Well, Hawaii is challenging. They have a lot of safeguards in place and I applaud the state for doing this because what I think their logic is is they don't wanna take a chance and harm what's out there. And we agree with that. Coral's very sensitive and I think a lot of scientists have done things over the years thinking they would help, maybe they'd help one thing but they create problems in another. This is happening in Kaniyia or in other parts of the island. So they're very- Like the mongoose. Like the mongoose, yes. We love mongoose. A lot of stories on that. But the state is conservative and again, I applaud that. I think that's important. But we are working with them and there was probably an opportunity for us to do some coral out-planting out here in the next three years. That's our hope. So when do you think you'll actually be able to do some short-planting? I mean, how far along that- I would say Fiji. Fiji, we have everything as a go. The government is just fine doing that. It's just a matter of raising funds and we're doing fundraising for that project. I'd like to say by the end of the year we'll be out there doing surveying but certainly within a year, year and a half. I'd like to have the latitude to solve from the screen launched out there. So Suzanne, so when you go to a place like Fiji, do you import Hawaii coral or do you look at the local coral and try to find the ones that are survivors? Yeah, that's a good question. No, we cannot import from another place. That's not, we'll not be safe. It's not really what the ecosystem there needs. So, but the techniques that we learn here can be applied all across every coral. So we would go there, we would harvest a coral there and we'll take small pieces and then make them reproduce and grow faster than they would if left alone and then replace them. So one of my questions is, how can we help and what can we do? I mean, how are you funded? I mean, is this all out of your own hip pocket or? Largely it hasn't been. We're a nonprofit and we're privately funded. We put in the bulk of the funds but we do have a number of private donors but that is a big effort of ours. To be able to do these remote labs, they're about a half a million, $600,000 endeavor. So it does take money. We're looking at corporate sponsors. I'm talking with Memorial Reef International. I think they're gonna sponsor one of our labs. They've got operations in Mexico and in Italy and probably some in the South Pacific coming up. So that's one of the organizations we're working with. We're also talking with other large companies that hopefully will be interested in saving the coral reefs. And it also comes down to the individuals. I mean, there's a lot of people that have sent in $20, you know, $100, little donations, they all add up. So it's for a lot of the efforts that we do out here fundraising is a big part of what we have to do. So what about government support? How's that been? Well, the government's been very supportive. We've talked a lot a number of legislators and representatives and they're very, very excited about what we're doing. Financially, at least there's nothing they can do but I think they will probably help on the regulations come down in the future as far as us doing work in Hawaii. I think we definitely have, we'll have some green lights there. Okay. I guess I'm funding for the coral. Yeah, because we have a coral location center planned where people can come in and learn about what the coral is, how important it is for the Hawaiian tradition and how it is affected by what we do and what can they do. So in that coral education center has been, the Hawaiian Tourism Authority has helped us some of the funding there. What about OHA? Is that all part of the Hawaiian tourism thing? We have not talked to them yet but certainly at something that's on our list. So what's been your experience here at NELA? I mean, this is in a way government support because NELA started out as a government funded operation although now it's self-sufficient but tell us about the systems and the support that you've been getting out of the NELA site. Well, facilities are fantastic what we're doing and of course the people work here have been great to work but we really appreciate their support. What's unique about this location for us is that NELA has two pipes that go into the water. One is at 80 feet and pulls up surface water which is what our coral needs. They also have another one that goes down several thousand feet that has very cold water and with that we were able to perfectly control temperatures so we can keep our coral at an optimal temperature. There's very few places in the world that have that ability. So we're very excited about being here. That's a big plus for us. So I noticed Hatch, this Hatch organization is an entrepreneurial organization. Have you had any interaction with them? Is there any interest from that point? Well, not at this point we've talked and we know who we are, each other is, we've definitely chatted. Their mission is to do online, typically on land, food, fish food raising. And for profit. Yeah, and they're for a profit. But the coral reefs, I don't think they're gonna impact their clientele at this time so I'm not sure if we're gonna be able to do that together. Okay. So what am I missed? What's a burning issue that you're talking about? Well, that's a trick question for questions. You know, we do tours out here. So anybody who comes out to the big island or right next to the airport, please come by. Look us up on our website. We'll have a slide at the end here. Certainly take a look. If the people are interested in volunteering, it really doesn't matter what your background is. We always have a need for people of all scale, skills and talents whether you're a biologist or an accountant. Volunteers are a big part of what we're doing. Fundraising is a big part of what we're doing. If anybody has any ideas on that, certainly we'd love to entertain that. And of course donations, cash donations or something that's what we work off. So what about volunteers? I'm at DOT today. She's great. And she's great. And what about having students out here supporting you? I mean, maybe part of their educational program. We have a number of the schools that visit us. I think we've had over 500 kids here last year. We'll probably have two, three times that coming year. We're working with WEA, HPA, and I believe Parker's coming up as well. I think with WEA, we actually have a program where the kids come down and they're working on projects here and they also have a core project up there that'll help them support. Okay. So what other kinds of donations are you looking for? So for example, we recently donated a shipping container to you guys. Yeah, she did. Thank you very much. And I know there's all sorts of shipping containers out there. I mean, they seem to be the architectural building building a choice out here, especially since you can set it up and then you ship it anywhere in the world. So talk us through. Yeah, besides cash donations, certainly in condominiums, containers. We had a homeowner donate a large 16 foot tank. I've never seen a fish tank that large in my life. I can't even really. Yeah, they took a moving van and two forklifts, but it's sitting in your container right now. But out of the blue, we got a phone call from somebody who just said, do you need this? And this is what we're building a core wall around them. This would have cost us $20,000 to $40,000 to build. And the fellow donated, which we're very grateful for. So if somebody has something in mind that is related to what we do, or not even the marine life, we'd certainly be interested in chatting with. So what's a coral wall? Coral wall. Okay. Well, basically we're gonna take the 16 foot tank and we're gonna build it into a small room downstairs here at Nell Hall. It'd stand out from the wall about six feet. And on the wall, on the wall, besides having the tank of coral and fish, we're gonna have iPads and headsets where you can put on and you can give yourself a tour. Basically you enter at what your age is so we can appropriately engage the tour for the experience level, age level. And we can basically take you through a 15 minute tour of what's going on in the world of coral and what you can do to help. So our coral also costs for us. I mean, do they give off light at night? You ever looked at that? Because if you wave your hand in the ocean at night, it's an old diver's trick. Like when you're looking for mines under a ship, it's like, you wave your hand and you get this phosphorescent, you actually see stuff. Some of them too. Some of them too. And then remember that the coral wall at the time is a little animal. It's inside the skeleton. So at night, the pilot has to come up to actually, and I think that's the product for us. From the ones I do. So we're winding down. You are a nonprofit. So it means anybody that donates gets a tax. Is that correct? That is correct. So can we have the last slide up there with the contact information? All right. So give a pitch. Well, like I said, saving reefs, feeding people. And it's not about just the reefs. When we were able to rebuild a reef, we're restoring the food source for native people around the world. So give us a hand and then come out and visit us. So I've seen there a facility. It's right beside my hydrogen. I've got to get a plug in for my hydrogen facility. So it's right beside my hydrogen facility. And it's a pretty neat. They call it the tea house. And it's a nice little setup there. And so it's very worthy of a visit. And it sounds like you're doing great stuff. And it's amazing that it's not amazing, but it's really good that you self-funded this out of your own hip pocket to make the world a better place. So congratulations to both of you for like dedicating a part of your careers and lives to getting this done. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. And Suzanne, great meeting you. It's good to have a doctor on staff as well. Just in case. So that's why we're winding up now and we'll be back next week. I don't know who our guest will be, but this is Hawaii, the state of clean energy and signing off. So aloha y'all.