 Buongiorno a tutti, io, direi per aiutarvi a capire, preferei parlare in inglese, innanzitutto penso che possa servire anche a voi in quanto molti concetti duranno a essere a livello internazionale collegati alla lingua inglese e poi vi rispermiate tante sbagli che faccio, sono 40 anni che non devo in Italia e il mio vocabolario è limitato. Se Fabio non mi dice stop, io continuo in inglese. Continua pure in inglese. Mi avevo parlato, scusami, finodore in italiano perché abbiamo verificato che nel panel tutti parlano italiano. Non è per snobismo o altro, ma penso che sia assolutamente importante, come dirò più tardi, essere più inclusivi possibile. Questo vuol dire che dobbiamo poter attrarre in Italia scienziati e collaborarci da tutto il mondo e la lingua non deve essere una variera. Tutti vogliono imparare in italiano perché la lingua è stupenda e si può cantare bene, parlare bene e parlare d'amore, ma indiciamo che la lingua franca rimane in inglese. Ok, scusami, mi spero che non... Il mio inglese è italiano comunque, quindi potete capire come ho detto. Ok, quindi molto brevemente, mi raccolto come mi raccolto. Mi darò un po' del background di dove queste opportunità che ho, diciamo, avvengene generati, e quindi, per capire, il colore socio-economico, il culturale, diciamo, l'environmento che è necessario, che è importante per questo. Poi mi raccolto un po' delle storie di spin-off che sono, magari, studiati per te, e molto brevemente, mi raccolto le lezioni che ho imparato e le raccomendazioni. Quindi, quello che vedete qui è il façadello dell'Instituto che sto sentendo ora. È una bellissima building because it was actually done together with an artist called Peter Cogler, eti roll and artist, who has done this facade that resembles networks, and I'm not going to go into any of this detail, but it's part of the trying to be, let's say, attractive and interested to the outside world. I think that human technology is a fantastic example of great architecture, and you are familiar with it, or you should be familiar. So, very briefly, the Institute is called Research Center for Molecular Medicine. It belongs to the Austrian Academy of Sciences. It's a bit like a Chiennere, it's a bit like a Max Planck. It's, let's say, a non-profit, an academic, but not a university. And the peculiarity, we are incorporated as a Gezenbaha, which gives us a lot of additional freedom. There are about 19 different group leaders, we call them principal investigators, and some of them are in the building, and some of them are outside the building, especially in the medical departments. It's a young place, I'm by far the oldest, and we have already 49 nations out of 180 people, so it gives you a sense of how important and how I think it's possible to be sort of international. Austria is not a particularly bigger event than other cities in Italy, so I'm sure something that we can try to achieve everywhere. And we roughly spend a little bit over 20 million a year, half of which comes from the government through the Academy of Sciences and half of which we recruit from other fundings. Very briefly about myself, I'm 60, I'm Italian, I'm the director of this place. Fabio told you I'm a member of the scientific committee of the Human Technopole, a fantastic responsibility and privilege. I founded several companies and I'm a promoter of research, but also social innovation in research, and I think that is sort of something that I am specializing, that I find very, very interesting, so something that is interesting to you. But also I'm the first person, I brag about this, but I'm the first person in any German speaking country whose genome is non anonymized online, so people can look up every little nucleotide, this decision that I took with my children, they are both adults. And so I have no secret, and for years I put under my signature, please tell me something about me from my genome that I do not know and nothing ever came. I know a few diseases, the genetics that I have, one is a typical Italian beta-palacemia heterozygot, but also I have a good proportion of Neonatal Genomes, something that according to recent research and the Nobel Prize of Medicine in 2022, one probably could have derived also from the shape of my nose. Okay, so becoming a bit more serious, our institute is working according to five principles, and I tell you this because obviously this is relevant for the creation of spin-off. One is we are interested in technologies, without the tools you cannot make new discoveries and I think that we are all aware that the technology development is at the forefront of most, let's say, new findings and new understanding in the life sciences as it is in physics or most other sciences. The other important principle that we're interested in to explore the roots of disease. Now, gazillions of institutes are doing this, we have the opportunity of being very close to the medical world because we're located in the center of the hospital, and so this is something that we do very seriously, but it's the roots, it's the basic mechanism, it is not applied research. At the same time, we push opportunities into medical applications. I mean, we are not programmatic, we don't tell people what they should do in terms of research, it's free-minded, curiosity-driven, basic research, but it is in a very medical context and it is, let's say, so that it's very easy to contextualize in a medical sense because of our location and our mandate. Very important is that we empower talent, so we are a training place for everybody, not just for the postdocs and the students, but also for the principal investigators, we don't give tenure, but also for the administration personnel, we all are on a learning curve and aware of this and sort of take care that this is something we keep doing. And then we are dedicated to multiplying by sharing, meaning that we are mindful of open access, we are mindful of publishing in time, we are mindful of giving reagents as much as possible. Now, I think that the president of the Human Technopole, Gianmarco Verona, spoke about the important innovation that one can witness in the rapidity by which some of the COVID treatments came up, both the discovery of Plaxovid under two years, a completely new drug, or not completely, but a new drug, and of course the vaccines and their approval. And so we were a little bit fed up with a lot of the Novacs kind of people who say, how can this be if it was done so quickly? What is, how can it be that this is not a trick or something weird? And what we were upset about is that people do not fully understand that behind every pill and every vaccine, there are decades of research by a large group of people. You know, probably in the range of several thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of people, if you count the basic research that has led to the knowledge it has led to the application that has led to all the possible invention and then sort of the development and the clinical testing. So it's an army of people doing a lot of work over decades. And so we decided to make sure that people understand that inside a pill, inside any pill, there is a lot of research. And so our slogan changed and we started to picture ourselves as people inside the pill, saying inside every pill there is medicine. And so our slogan changed to science is our medicine, meaning that it is clear, it's a pun. So in Gioco di Paola, so you're trying to say that there is science inside of medicine at the same time we live off science. And so our research report is packaged like a pill of pills and so on and so forth. And I think this is a campaign that is trying to sort of explain the importance of basic research for innovation down the line, which is a theme also of these days. Very, very briefly, it's not too important. We mainly focus on immunity, infections, and let's say auto immunity, metabolism, cancer, aging and rare disorders. So what don't we do? We don't do much CNS work. I will skip quite a lot of this. This is also just to give you a sense of the diversity that we have in terms of faculty because they are not only in our building, but there are sort of virtual faculty members that are at the medical university and also in other places, which gives a much broader, let's say, access to expertise, the variety of expertise. What you see here is an air view of a campus that we're sitting in and this whole campus that you see each and every building has something to do with the hospital or with the University of Medicine and Teaching, and we are in the middle of it. And so it's a very, and we are independent. I say we are like Villaggio Gallico nella Britannia occupata di Romani. Cioè, we are the rebels because we don't belong to the medical university or go away. I'm also a professor there, but the important point is that we are independent in terms of budget. And so we are in a way profiting from all of this without having to be in that direction. I tell you this because of course it's important to the discussion today and there are 2,000 medical doctors and millions of patients, outpatients, going in and out of this campus, which is very, very important. Another thing that is important for you, I think, in the sort of life science innovation, let's say value creation chain, is that we are very mindful of the boundary between what we do in our, let's say basic research competence and the medical world by respecting it and by knowing and having the partners when we pass over something and when we are using patient material and when we are using clinical information, we are very, very careful to not trespass the boundary without awareness and knowledge of everybody involved because we don't wanna be an alternative program to the medical program. We want to be a preparatory or if you want the science inside the medicine. So another thing that I don't wanna go into details but I think it's important is that we are an institution like the human technical that is dedicated on excellence, meaning that we are more interested in the quality and the quantity of what we are doing. And we have many RC grants and some of people here receive prizes and so on and so forth. But I think it's very important to say that the average impact factor of our papers is typically higher than 10, meaning that we try to publish in better journals. Now we know that journal impact factors is not important parameter but it's still indicative if you want of the ambition of a place. So we are trying to do that and I'm not gonna take you through this. We are 15 year of age and we are pretty happy about, let's say, how we were able to establish excellence or the ambition to be making true innovation not making derivative research in the entire organization. I'm not gonna go through this slide enough to say that there are three areas where we are, let's say, better than that we are good. One is genomics, historically identified very interesting new genes. The other one is technology, technology particular single cell analysis, epigenomic, but also a few other processes. And the third one is drug discovery. If drug discovery in an academic sense, in a sense that is associated, let's say, and I can send you this slide, so it's not. I show you this slide because I'm very proud of the fact that a technology developed in our institute was recently used or in the last two years was used in a clinical trial based on imaging of the efficacy of drugs in the blood of patients or in certain pools in samples from the blood of patients in very severe blood cancers, actually, ones that had previous... And it showed a very interesting capability in improving the outcome of the treatments that were determined by this technology. So, meaning that even if we're only 15 years old, there is already a clinical trial that was based on something that we discovered, which I think is very important. And now this is something that I think you should think about. And that is what we... What I believe is at the core of much of what we do and also of the spin-offs is that we are very cooperative, meaning that everybody in the building or in the virtual place does not require approval from anybody to collaborate. So, the students don't have to say, can I talk to the other person? Can I get this reagents? Can I get this technology? Everybody is able to share this. And so the students among themselves are making a lot of very interesting collaborations. Of course, the PI needs to know it or she should know it or she should know it. But it's very important that this is... And so it results in a very, very high number of collaborative papers and a very, very high index of how many different labs an individual lab works with. And if you say, okay, we all do this, I can tell you that all the institutes we compare are doing it four to five times less than we do. So, it's a real, if you want fingerprint of our institution to be very collaborative and I think that teaches everybody in the organization students and postdocs and also PIs to take away the fears of, but then what we do with authorship but then what would we do with this and opens a sort of the ability to be free and innovative. That is very important because, as you know, it's almost impossible these days to have all the required capability and technologies within one individual laboratory. The other point is to really cherish and worship diversity. Diversity is not some politically correct something that comes out of some crazy US college. Diversity is the essence of innovation. To think about sort of the success that was cherished by both Gianmario Verona and Fabio of Italy. It comes from the fact that Italy is a very open country e in the military and since 10,000 years has had a lot of input from different cultures from different people and so on so forth. Think about sort of renaissance times. So, that is very, very important also in any institution. So diversity is something that you really should and it's not about sort of how many if you want geographical and ethnic diversity you have is really way of thinking is really sort of background is really tolerant of different things and think that is very, very important. And then we foster creativity. I think that is also important because innovation is not something technical. Innovation is also something very cultural. I think that was also mentioned. And so we welcome people. So in our institute, people feel well when they come. We empower people. So the culture of empowerment. We create trust. People don't have to fear. People don't have to worry that people are unkind. The kindness is our most important principle. So everybody's kind. If you're kind and you keep being kind even a kind of a stonato even a person that has learned to bite because she or he were in a very hostile and toxic environment slowly opens up and learns how to contribute and learns how to appreciate the contributions of other. And then certainly is very, very important that you have a situation where everybody should feel responsible but also entitled to rights and duties. That is very, very important. And then also a culture where the translation of what we do for society is part of why we can use taxpayers' money either directly from Austria or from the European Union. So also your taxes to do the kind of joyful and innovative research we're doing. We can't do this if we don't think about what can we give back in terms of translating this for the benefit of society. It's very, very important. So this brings me now to why start a company. So what we feel is that as a researcher in the 21st century it is very important that to translate this finding is considered, let's say a vehicle to affect our lives. So it's not to say, oh, it doesn't matter what I'm doing, I publish it and then somebody else will care about what I'm buying. Yes, it's true. You're only contributing a little piece to a big, big, big, let's say tower or a big puzzle. But it's also true that you need to be mindful of this to know whether there is an opportunity that allows you to do that. If you want to start a company, that is a strong motivation. Another thing that can motivate you to start a company that is important to you irrespective of whether you're starting a company yourself or whether you will help people to start a company is that many ideas that you have are not, you cannot scale up by doing it very well, very professionally millions of times or at least thousands of times or hundreds of times if you don't have the capability of making a company where this particular feature is central. In other words, if you are interested in a particular topic it's not easy to be as deep and as rigorous as you are in an industrial setting. So industry is a place where through access of different funds you may get a different level of robustness in what you're trying to do. Another great thing is that by starting a company you create jobs, you create opportunities and you foster talent is not a small thing, particularly for a group leader where you have a lot of talented people and you'd like to know that they have good and interesting opportunities and jobs after. Most importantly as a human being you are challenged to a degree that otherwise you would not be easily challenged because the learning curve you're on is incredibly steep. You learn about many more things than just your scientific aspect and I think that is inebriating, that is sort of really energizing and very good fun and so if before your institution was a little bit like a golden cage you were operating let's say in an era that is very circumscribed and very focused and you cannot tell your friends exactly what we are doing because they don't understand. If you start a company people start understanding what you're doing because you're trying to valorize to do something out of your research and inevitably it takes you out of the building into understanding, I don't know, graphics, waste disposal, legal matters, financial matters and so on and so forth. So suddenly you are going beyond your academic wants. The other thing that I find fascinating is that it really takes you a great faith in the future to do so. I mean if you are semi-depressed on a great day in Milan there is a lot, in Vienna there is even more, in the winter and you say, am I in the right job? I'm not making enough money to suffer like this and so on and so forth. But if you make a company you are really throwing, let's say, I don't know, a bouquet of flowers in the future. You're really throwing a lifeline into the future and you say, I believe that there will be something that comes out of this baby that we are creating. So it is the idea of creating the trust in the future that will pull people into being, let's say, supportive and being positive and being contributing to this. And this is also very nice and very liberating because it opens up, if you want, in a personal sense, your responsibility towards society but also towards, as I say, trusting in the future. Here we have the founders of all site or some of the founders of all site living some and I gave them this trumpet as a present as sort of the symbol of the sound, of the bold sound that should, let's say, accompany them. And ultimately what I would like to say is that it is an act of creation. It's an act of creation that is an incredible feeling because you're creating something that did not exist before and where you cannot, let's say, foresee how big it will become and how long it will live but it is clearly a big creation because it will have its own dynamic, there will be its own financial sustainability, it will have its own people working there, its own and so on and so forth. So it's an incredible act of creation by, it's like not putting one tree in the garden, it's like putting a forest, it's something that has a lot of size and potential. Just briefly on a personal, how did I, let's say, become in love with biotech? When I was a student, so I was 25, I had the privilege of spending a year of my PhD in the laboratory of Dave Godel at Genentech. Genentech was then only about a thousand people and it was an incredibly interesting year, I learned a lot and clearly I learned that in contrast to what I thought, people in biotech were very collaborative and very open and so it was not like I would imagine that people were totally secretive, wearing sunglasses and not talking to each other, the opposite was true much, much more that University of Zurich where I was before. So it really made me see that fantastic research can be done in a biotech setting and on a personal experience level, it can be at least as rewarding as a good lab. So these are the companies that I founded directly, I mean, there were companies that I helped, but these are the companies that I founded directly. So the company Selzone in 2000 was the first experience, I also went to work for the company, I became scientific director there and I was head of site and that site was mainly there, so it was really the job. It was an incredibly interesting experience, it was bought by GSK in the year 2000, I mean the year 2000 then, I don't remember 12, I something like this. And yeah, and now it's a thriving place with 300 people at the same belongs to GSK. When I was in Vienna, we founded the company Haplogen, I speak a little bit more about this, it was dealing, excuse me, and Selzone was dealing with interaction proteomics or protein complexes and how drugs affect them and how you can identify the targets of drugs by using proteomics. And Haplogen was working with human haploid cells to be able to identify, if you want to do somatic cell genetics, those genetics in a petri dish with human cells. It was before CRISPR, CRISPR took some sale out of it, but we still were able to sell half of the genomics business to Horizon Discovery. All site is a company that was founded a little bit later. All of these were founded by us and us meaning me and other PIs in the building or postdoc or students. And then we come to that in a second. All site was making this technology that I showed you in the clinical trial, which is the ability of using PBMCs or monocleated cells from the blood of people to see which drug actually works. And if you have a particular disease, you can try to see selected drug that works. And out of this came a lot of other possibilities. And the company was acquired by Exencia that is a publicly noted large UK biotech company. Recent spinoffs are proxygen and solgate and I speak a little bit more about this. And you see what you see in this picture is that you see that there is a little bit of flak of women, which is something that I think should be of great concern off to the industry and we come to speak about that as well. But other than this, it's an incredibly nice experience to create team. Here in a tabular form, a little bit, what are the parameters that spoke about when they were done out of the institutions. It was not only out of SEM, there was also some cases, the whited involved or in some other cases, ISTA, which is Institute of Science and Technology, Austria. And then as shown here. And then the areas of business, different things typically have to do something with drug discovery, but by getting to a new technology. Different sort of money raised in different times. We come to that a little bit more, but typically not gigantic rounds and typically starting in a local sense because at Seldom, the first company I've done, I have experienced how intense it becomes when you are essentially working for VCs and their funds, the kind of absurdity that is a sort, you're never quite serene, you're always under pressure, but the pressure that is before you are endorsing a large international VC company is a different kind of pressure that you are. That is more, let's say, easy to create the company culture in and create the technology basis before you go, let's say, out and seek additional investors. The number of employees varied, and of course in those cases where they were bought, it grew up very fast. So very quickly, typically, the different spin-offs were incubated at SEM for about a year, maybe less, never before, never more. There was always some sort of patent or patent group at the basis, and as you know, this is very important particularly to attract investors. It's not really operationally fundamental important because often you end up relying on other patents that you create and so on and so forth, but you need to have patents to have something that is supporting your unique selling point and the reason why they should invest in you. It was very important in this country, but also in other countries, to access public what you can call pre-seed funding, so a small amount of money, hundreds of thousands of euro that you need to establish your proof of concept, your technology. We relied a lot on business angels that we knew people, we trusted people that were not in for a short return, but had a longer vision, people who were experienced, people that would give advice. So luckily there are at least three fellows that we know that were previous or current, let's say investors or had been in biotechs themselves that have enough money to support the ecosystem and these are very, very nice people because they are able to give you true support rather than a sort of performance stress. Of course there is performance stress, but it's a different kind. Then very important this country, you can get serious public seed funding. Some of it is for free, meaning that you don't have to pay back. Some of this is contingent of your success, you may have to pay back to some extent. Then you typically go to an additional round with the same or additional business angels and small local VCs that are associated with let's say the academic world. And then what we always tried is to get validation off set of the cost by early partnering with, for example, with industry, with larger industry, typically with pharma. That was always useful without giving out too many rights or without sort of having all the best people working just for that. But it's important to offset the cost. And here is Enrico Girardi, one of the postdocs who founded, who was involved in Soldgate here at the so-called Vienna Science Board because Vienna has a lot of boards and one is the Science Board. What about IP? Of course, how it works in our institution is that we have to file an invention record. It's done by the scientist. You give it to the IP office and or to management. And also you try to say who from your point of view contributed how much to which invention. So you have to find an agreement. I prefer agreements where everybody has equal parts because it puts people in different kind of obligations in the future. But it doesn't raise the question of who has more into that. We try to do the same also with founding shares. Typically, then it's evaluated by the IP person. We have one IP person in our institution, but also by me or other scientists. And then we always, not always when there is merit, we use a very experienced, trusted law firm that we know that we've been working on for 15 years and it's animated wrongly. So typically, we ask people in the invention record to say something about the commercialization potential, not only what can you do with it, the kind of diseases they may address, but also if they have in mind companies that could be interesting in licensing the invention or who could be using it. And then if all of this looks good, then we decide to invest in figuring out with the lawyers whether there was prior art. I mean, that is if you want already quite an investment. And then we decide whether or not to patent. And it's important to know that there is a law in Austria, but I think that there are similar laws in most countries that protect the rights of the inventors. So what we do is, and this is something that everybody knows when they sign our contract, is that out of the commercialization of this particular invention for which you have your inventor, the income generated should be divided into three parts. One part is for the inventors, one is for the laboratory of the inventors and one is for the institution. Okay, this is Aril Ben-Simon, another founder of Solgate, another science book. So what was a very nice success for us was the acquisition of Allside by Exencia a year ago. This is, you see Gregory Bradmer, Nicholas Krall, both were postdoctoral fellows in my lab and they are very happy multimillionaires. Of course, multimillionaires comes with a hook, meaning that you cannot sell your shares for quite some time, maybe by the time you sell it, the company is not as valuable and so on and so forth, but there were also some cash payments that they enjoyed. And so they're happy, both of them are in their mid 30s. Another thing that is going very well is proxigen. Proxigen is only two year old. You see here to the right a picture, I was not there, but I sent this number two in flowers that was only about a few months ago. But at the same time, they already have a few collaborations, one of which with Merck that was nominated for deal of the year was about 500 million bio dollars, as you know bio euros, these are, let's say, potential if the milestones are met, but still the upfront payment was handsome and we are very, very happy because this company is dealing with molecular glues. So these are small molecules that are conferring new functions to proteins, typically leading them to degradation, but not only. And I want to point out here to individuals, both Beant and Matthias were students with us. Beant in the meantime had gone on to Porsche Design for learning consultancy, but Matthias went straight from his PhD into the company. Both are founders and both are sort of very, very, very intense. Matthias actually is from Milano. He grew up in Milano. And last but not least, the company Solgate is working on transporters. I think here it's still a bit earlier age. For the first time there is a woman co, usually me here with Gaia Noverino, Gaia is an Italian neuroscientist working at Institute of Science and Technology, Austria. So this change a little bit, the testosterone balance within founders. Here we are considering the graphics and we're using dancers that are engaging molecules to show transport. This is working growth progress. They're constantly hiring. So if you're interested in these companies, it's easy to find. So what is the success? What are the fruits coming out of this? For sure what I'm incredibly proud is that there are now more scientists working in the spin-offs of this institution than in the institution. So you have to imagine this. Take the human technology and the human technology out of its own has created jobs for more people than its houses. Just scientists working on related projects. This is really an impressive and I think very, very important point which gives you the sense of how technology transfer can create a world and if you want a whole ecosystem you'll keep indefinitely going. Here a part of the ecosystem, Jay Bredner who was until recently the head of research of Novartis was at a conference that we organized and many of these people ended up, sort of you see the two founders of Allside. Tillman went on to do another company that I didn't speak about and many more are involved in new businesses. So the other second reason is that the personal development that you see of the students and the postdocs is just amazing. They're unrecognizable because they learn very quickly how to lead, they learn very quickly how to assume responsibility, they learn very quickly how to deal with the multi-parameters that are beyond what you typically do when you have to do research and do papers. I mentioned the fact that you are, the fruits are the creation of a whole group of people that are familiar with the topics that includes technicians that know how to write reports, that know how to present data, that know how to be very rigorous, that know how to document at a different level and so on and so forth and also the people, people who know how to do PowerPoint presentation, how to do graphics, and particularly things at the interface with business and economics. And I mentioned the other technologies. But then it's not only roses and flowers, let me talk briefly, and this is a little bit from an Austrian perspective, but I think it's European in general. So in general, and I think I go crazy when I hear people speak about energy and no energy and what do we do and why don't we have and the bad Germans that are not giving us the money, why should the German worker give money to an Italian because Italians were not thrifty, I don't understand, but let's say I'm saying something popular here, but generally speaking, why do we complain about the institution and nobody speaks about research? It's research that will get us out of problems, it is research that will make us find new ways where we can better use, let's say, solar energy or water energy or hydrogen, or you name it something that your generation will invent. So that gives me an experience. So the society here, just like in Italy, imagines that research innovation is something that should come out of the universities and that taxpayers are paying for it and we don't have to worry about what happens after. Burschi, right? We have to worry. I mean, I think that John Mario Verona, who was much more diplomatic than me, spoke how a former dean of Bocconi can speak, but I can tell you from a perspective of my perspective that that is Burschi, right? I mean, unless you do it, you, meaning your group, there is not going to be the transfer of the innovation or of the findings for society and why this is not more fostered, more aided blows my mind because you already heard Professor Verona tell you that that is a proven fact that innovation comes and the advancement of society comes from innovation and technology. So the same certainly here that schools and university systems do not really value the entrepreneurship. They don't, you know, a real truly academic person who works with great suspicion to anybody who sells out and does something commercial. Your commercial is like you're horrible. Your commercial, you're like you have the plague, you have COVID because your commercial is, you know, your commercial, you're not a member of the academic elite that is pure enough. That is changing, hopefully changing with your generation, but is much still in the teaching and still in many of the rather abstract and sterile way by which a lot of things are taught. At best, the role that the universities have is to be non obstructive. They don't really have a system to support young companies to come up. They're happy if it happens, but they're not necessarily doing anything about this. I'm venture capital money. There is not enough business angel. They're not enough CEOs that I experienced or the clever Italians that go abroad. Many of them sort of stay abroad. It's fantastic that Piero Carninci who will speak after me is going back to Italy because that is exactly what we need to achieve, not only Italians, but from all over the world. And then I find a human technical, this is different and in some institution typically else there is no space. Another, let's say impediment, is really sort of the fact that investments by people who have a little bit of money or a lot of money is not... Giulio, scusami, se riusciamo a finire in 5 minuti. Ok, ok, grazie. I was hoping that somebody was stopping me. Ok, so I think that the notion here is that we need to build the framework in the infrastructure that allow us to make the founding of company, something straightforward, something that is well aligned with the mandate of institutions. And here there are some guidelines that I'm not going to go through about how institutions such as universities o research centers can make the creation of startup a little bit more easy. And clearly also at the political side if you hear about all the sort of notions that our countries in Italy and Austria are typical countries where the fear of immigration is inoculated into the population as if immigrants are enemies. And it's well known that immigration is an incredible source of talent for it's well known that the watch industry in Switzerland was done by refugees, in fact Huguenot refugees is known that the chances that an immigrant will make a patent in the US and in Austria and Germany are much higher than nonimmigrant and if you think about Google, if you think about Facebook, you think about many many companies you will find that immigrants were actually the starters. So let's stop this political bullshit that migration and immigration is a danger. It's particularly for a country like Italy where no birth is absolutely necessary. Okay, and last I was to say it's you're never too young. I mean you can be younger and younger. Matthias I think was 25 and it should be time where more women are into this innovation is contagious here and in 2017 with Christoph Uber, the founders of BioNTech you know it creates a lot of this is my former boss until a few weeks ago who just received the Nobel Prize for physics a few weeks ago 10 days ago and then we've Manusho Petit. So this is essentially my take home message. You have to try you have to do it and you participate to a systems effect and I'm happy to take questions and I'm sorry I like to speak.