 APC exonerates Bahá'íri and blames Jonathan for incubating terrorism and Christians by mouth devils in heart or chameleon attacks Babacir Lawal. This is Plus Politics and I am Mary Anacorn. The all-progressive Congress APC says it will be unfair for anybody to label the President, Major-General Mohammed Bahá'í retired, a failure for not coiling the nation's insecurity challenges. The ruling party alleged that the immediate past administration of President Goodluck Jonathan was responsible for condoning insurgency and banditry until it became full-blown. The APC also accused the People's Democratic Party of being insensitive by leading other opposition members to rebel against the President over what could be a collective fight against terrorism. Now disgruntled senators had threatened to impeach the President over the worsening insecurity ravaging the country. The presidency in a statement by the President's spokesman Garba Shehu had described the action of opposition senators as baby-ish, advising them to put their time to a better use. While joining us to discuss this and break it down is Alesta Wilcox as a chattered accountant and a public affairs analyst and also joining us is Michael Achimago, he's a media consultant. Thank you gentlemen for being part of the conversation. Thank you for having me, it's my pleasure. Great. I'm going to start with you Michael then I'll come to Alesta, Alesta is going to give us some background into what might be the reason for the APC taking these stands. I think gentlemen, both of you understand what the country is facing right now in terms of insecurity, we've seen that a lot of things are happening at the same time, lecturers are on strike, universities obviously are not running except private universities. We also have the issue of insecurity, there was recently some red alert here in Lagos which made a lot of people wonder what was in the radar but then of course the police had come out to assuage our fears and say that they're on top of the matter. But then the APC is saying that the PDP is not speaking up on this issue and they are simply trying to rebel against the president. Michael, what are your thoughts? Is the PDP not necessarily playing the position as they should as the APC did before it got into power in terms of dealing with the issue of insecurity? Well, how much opposition you can say is adequate will depend on what the benchmark is. Where that when the APC was in the upheaval wrongly about a lot of issues. Now if you just suppose against what the PDP is doing right now, then you could say that not enough is being done. But where we are right now is no longer just a PDP matter. PDP are not the only opposition party in Nigeria. This is a battle for every Nigerian affected by this situation. I have a problem with the timing of the APC and with the lack of accountability over this issue. There's a reason why people voted for the APC in 2015 and that was to make things better than it was under the PDP. So almost eight years later and right in the midst of a very horrible security situation, this is not what the ruling party should be saying. They voted to sort this problem out. In the past, Boko Haram used to attack soft targets. Now our last bus stop, which is the army, the military, are prey to these terrorists. And so if the military is falling under the APC government to terrorize what hope for 200 million other Nigerians that are affected by this, PDP is no longer the issue here. APC should deal with this situation right now. Michael, I just want to push you forward. When the APC was the opposition, we remember Mr. President and members of his party pushed the PDP on these issues. In fact, one of the reasons why President Buhari was able to win the elections was because he promised that he was going to be able to deal with insecurity. In fact, chastised the government of the day because of what happened to the Chippok girls. I mean, we all remember it took a while for the government to actually agree to the fact that the girls were taken in the first instance and the opposition kept pushing on that matter. Now, let me go back again to what the APC is saying. They're saying that the PDP is not doing what it should. It should be concerted efforts in their words that should help the President to deal with this and the PDP is not doing that. So I'm wondering, how should the PDP do this? Why are they not doing this? The APC are not being true to themselves and they're not being true to Nigerians and they are not ready to do their job. The PDP are not in charge of the military or the paramilitary, what is the situation as we're speaking out? You know, people from the Leicester parties, normal citizens like myself who do not have party affiliations. We have all spoken up, but we cannot say... Michael, Michael, Michael, we're having connection issues with you. Michael, I'm so sorry. We're having connection issues with you and we're getting a little feedback. I don't know whose TV is on, but we're getting a little feedback and it's very difficult for us to hear you. So we're going to try to see if we can fix you. Let's go to Alesta. Alesta, I mean, there's no need to regurgitate what's been happening in the country. You and I are present in Nigeria. We've been seeing what's happening. As of yesterday, the story that hit us is that the government, the federal government approved money for vehicles to help fight insecurity in Niger Republic. And let's not forget that a few people were released by kidnappers of the people who were in the systems of the train attack in Kaduna. And most of those people who came out had said that government didn't have a hand in their release. Asu, like I said earlier, on our strike. And one would wonder if these monies were given to deal with the issue of Asu, at least it would have gone a long way, wouldn't it? And why should the PDP be carrying the burden of a government that is in power? Well, you have put so many pieces together. Thank you very much. Let me try and see if I can say all the questions you put together. Well, first, with the issue of Asu, if you give the 1.4 billion, you are not doing anything. I mean, you're not scratching the circuit. Asu is looking for private and something billion. And of course, the government must run. So if you give the 1.4 billion, 1.1 billion used for those vehicles, you are not doing nothing. I mean, that's not even enough to pay salary of two universities for a month. Anyway, talking about the PDP, the PDP has a capacity to do anything. They've not had any capacity to do anything. So, and that is why we find ourselves in this situation. If they had had the capacity to have dealt with decisively or do more, when they were in power, with respect to Boku Haram and other issues, I don't think we'll have gotten to the high hydrant model it becomes. Because I also remember, I can't hold brief for any government. Like you said, I don't know why the APC is saying what they say. I don't remember of APC. But I know that if they had the, if the past government, right from the time of Gerard Dua, when this issue started, if they had done what is needful, as a then, they will have maybe need, need beating the ball. But unfortunately, they did it rather generous. We are a massive world, properties. We all know what happened during the exposures of how a lot of the military generals have their fingers in corruption charges and all. So the money made for those arms were diverted and used for personal purposes. I mean, we've seen a lot of them being put on trial and a lot of them being made to reform, use sums of money. So for me, if on that premise it's yes. But at this point, if APC is expecting PDP to do anything, then that is wishful thinking or a good paradise because PDP has no capacity. Even to be a Bible opposition, they cannot, they have no capacity to talk less of contributing meaningfully to national discourse. I mean, so they are like the terrorists, hit and run. They scratch here, they scratch there. There is no concerted opposition, position that they've taken. Ever as they left power. So when they empower, they are incapable. When they have the power, they are incapable. So I don't think the PDP and the APC should be expecting anything sensible from the PDP. It's rather looking for fish in the desert. And also the APC should wake up. They have had a lot of successes and they've had a lot of backfalls. Now, if you look at when they took over power, like it has always been said. Boko Haram was holding the size of Belgium about 16 to, is this, how many local governments in Boronu and Boronu, Yubei and Adamaasit, they are holding those documents. But it's a caliphate. As of today, we must admit one thing. Boko Haram is on the back foot. And it was not true that as of then, they were only doing self-target. As of then, during the time of Jonathan, the bomb defends Esquota. They bombed Agudia several times. Minzli barracks in Boronu and Adamaasit were ransacked. So the police at Esquota was bombed. So it was not true that then it was only self-target. They were bombing Syriza's targets. But this government tried and rolled back, bombed back some Chippong girls, and then this thing escalated to the northeast, to the northwest. The main issue we're having now is in northwest. We started as Banditry, and then, and it was not really started. But unfortunately, and sadly, to some of us, they have not been able to step up the game, step up the game as to tame it and bring it to subjection. This is not to undermine the sacrifices of our military men, of our brothers and sisters in uniform. These are the people that take the brunt of what is happening in the theater of war. So they have paid a lot of sacrifices. Some have lost their lives. Some have lost families. So they are working, but how they have not been able to tame this high-dead mother? I think the APC should take full responsibility because the bulk stopped on their table, because they empower, the government empower, they bulk stop on their table. They have to take full responsibility for they are not being able to have stemmed the tide. Not to say they have not done far more than the, I mean, even if they have done quite a lot, especially the Bronuazis, they have cleared a lot of things. They have pursued them out of the cities. Life has returned to normalcy. I'm curious. Alastair, I want to come in there. Interesting that you are telling us all of these things that you think that the APC government has done. You said that Boko Haram is on the back foot, but then we have something that's a little worse than Boko Haram. Boko Haram may have been somewhat depleted, and now we have Icewap. We have these killer kidnappers. They started from unknown gunmen to herdsmen. They have all kinds of names, but then the horror that they're metting out on people, not just in the north right now, but almost across the country. I want to ask a very simple question. Is it easier and better now compared to the PDP government? You even went all the way to the Yaradar administration to play the blame game. So how has the APC changed the situation of security in this country? Is it been for the better, or is it for the worse? Because we're comparing now. You went all the way down to the Yaradar administration. What has the APC been able to do for us in terms of stemming the tide of insecurity? Well, sometimes we suffer in this country from selective amnesia, and we forget how yesterday is so fast that we take the today's problem to equate what happened yesterday. I'm not a member of the APC. I've never been a member of any party, but I try to present the issues clearly if you can go back in time. And what I said in the Yaradar was because the concept of Bukwara started from that period when Mahmoud Yusuf, what was his name, was arrested and executed by the police, which ignited this whole thing. That was during the Yaradar administration. And then Genatani inherited it, and it escalated to the point that Bukwara has inherited it in 2015, and the first thing they have to deal with is the cuboak issue. Now, if you ask, don't forget, don't forget that as far back as 2013-2004, kidnapping in the south-south, high-level citizens were all of the day. You are from the south-south, and you know that if you live in Potakot, you know that you cannot go out in Potakot City during those periods. There was no nightlife. The entire Eastern region, Oksizikanku and Koh, were holding sway, were holding sway in the eastern part of the country. People don't go to the village again. That was the kidnapping of those days, very high-level kidnapping. And then, unfortunately, you have followed the Banguagot to say it is the remnants of Bukwara that are now the kidnappers all over the country. Last time, I don't think I said that. I said we're dealing with something different. You said that Boko Haram is on the back foot, so please quote me correctly. You're the one who's saying that Boko Haram, the APC government has succeeded in putting it on the back foot. And I'm saying, we're dealing with a much bigger situation. And I'm asking, how has the APC government been able to successfully make this different from what they inherited? Because all of these successive governments... Let me get that. No, I got that. Just hold on. There is no... For all of these people you've mentioned, President Buhari and the APC government is the only government that had campaigned mostly on insecurity, and they promised that they were going to decimate Boko Haram and put an end to terrorism. But here we are. Yes, if you live in Boronu, if you live in Ube, or if you live in Adamawa, maybe your assessment will be different from mine, because I remember there was a time before this government came, all kind of football clubs, no football team plays in MedoGrid. And there were camps, IDP camps. So if you live in Boronu, maybe you live in Ube, you'll be in Ube, in Adamawa, that we are at the epic centre of Boko Haram activity. I'm sure your assessment will be different. Now, if you live in Zamfara, if you live in Zamfara, and in part of the Northwest, part of the Northwest, of course, your assessment will be different, that for us, because we used to have the theatre and North East, now it moved to North East, and then there was an addition, the ISWAP. The ISWAP is not a domestic Nigerian terrorist group. It is a terrorist group that is even Boko Haram, that has come across the entire West African region. Okay, Alessia, I'm so sorry to talk over you. I think that we have Michael back on the line. So let's give Michael some airtime to speak up. I don't think that we want to do a history class on the ISWAP right now. Michael, Michael would like to hear what you think. Alessia has been giving us some history classes on this, but he's yet to answer my question, so I'll throw it to you. How has Nigeria changed since Bahari came in after the promise of helping us to deal with insecurity, as opposed to where we are right now? Well, Miriam, for a government that promised so much and won the elections on the back of those promises, the APC have performed very badly. In 2014, I would leave Abuja alone by myself and drive to Kaduna by 8 p.m. In fact, I remember that on the eve of the 2015 elections, I left Abuja by 10 p.m. solo to drive to Mina, so I could vote the next day. Today, it's not possible to do so. Also remember that the Jonathan government was hampered by the Leahy law in America where they couldn't buy weapons from the United States. This administration has been giving a lot of military hardware. We have the Tucano judge, which have done more harm to innocent villagers than to the actual terrorists they're supposed to be bombing. Under the PDP, terrorism was contained within a certain part of the country. As a matter of fact, I remember that between the elections, there was a postponement, right, so that they could do a security sweep of some of those northern states so that elections could hold that mercenaries were brought in and they'd got the job done and elections happened in those places. APC even won in those northern states. Today, you cannot say you want to run from Abuja to say Lagos for safety because nowhere is as safe as they used to be in the past anymore. I think that the APC bringing up this kind of conversation now when they should be explained to us the recent events, especially put a prison break and the attacks on our military boys who are paying the supreme price on our behalf, around Zuma Rock, this is a distraction and it is classic gaslighting on the part of this government. It should not be allowed to... We should not be derailed from the real conversations. This government was voted to make Nigeria better. Admittedly, there were issues in that government. That was why people voted this government to make it better. APC should be bold enough to come up and admit that they have failed and ask Nigerians for help, but they still have lived with the seat of power so that somebody else who can do the job can come and get this job done. I remember Kingsley Moore and Lucene recently doing his campaigns before his family and even afterwards that Nigeria should import mercenaries. All the countries do these things when things get out of hand. Now, like you rightly said, Mary, we are no longer dealing with just Boko Haram. We have different nomenclatures but different insurgents around the country. And I'm still even wondering why a Nigerian spot would label these so-called bandits as terrorists until today the mainstream media still refers to them as bandits and the government is not insisting they be named terrorists. Our administration here, they drive mostly innocent vehicles, right? But we are busy buying luxury cars for Niger Republic at its time, when things are fixed, but our students are home, people are even in a puddle. We are not safe. So this is a very huge destruction. We should know that we are not to stand. I'm not going to hold brief on Mr. President, but recently the President had been courted to say that he's done his best. And a lot of people, he didn't go down well with a lot of people, but then what exactly do we expect from Mr. President and the government? I mean, we've seen and heard the government say, oh, we're going to decimate, we're going to do whatever it takes to bring these people to book. But then let's go to what's happened recently. In a bit to find solutions, the media, who always takes half of the blame for not reporting properly or not reporting anything, decided that they were going to go into the deep north to find out exactly what is at the core of this insecurity. We saw the BBC and, of course, Trust TV put out a documentary that somewhat gave us an understanding of what's happening that is trickling all the way down to where we are right now. But we also saw the reactions of government. And I want to ask you and Alesta what your thoughts on what the government, the government's position, the government, I'd like to quickly say, has said that these media houses were glamorizing terrorism in the country and that they will be sued or sanctioned. I'll start with you, Michael, quickly before we go back to Alesta. What are your thoughts? Because we're looking for solutions and these people tried to give us an idea as to where we can start to deal with this. I mean, some people would say that's what they were doing. But then there are other people who have a school of thought that they should not have in any way, given a face to these people, hence they're glamorizing these terrorists. If this government has any artistic reason for saying this, it's going to be difficult for them to convince Nigerians about it because they do have a history of gagging the press. You know, it's not too long ago we had the Twitter ban here in Nigeria. Media houses have been forced to pay fines for things that are regular journalism. If I was this government, I wouldn't have come out to make a decision of this. If they have an alternative fact or truth, they should have done their own documentary so they could convince Nigerians. I think that they are running away from the truth, offends them every time some of these facts that they want to hide are exposed. And you see, let's not forget, there have been allegations that this government colludes with these people. While I cannot confirm that, there are scenarios that Nigerians have doubts about government sincerity, you know, about fighting terrorism. We've had terrorists come out to say, look, we're sponsored by this government and I remember a large hypocrisy who used to be an APC stalwart, coming out as well to say, look, terrorists were brought in by the APC when I was there so that we could win an election. The government has not convinced Nigerians that these allegations are untrue, you know, and trying to gargah here, they have fined some media houses, five million Naira, including DSTV, you know, and all of that. This is not what we need at the moment. The government is not sincere. Unfortunately, I am not enthusiastic and hopeful about the ability to deal with this situation. Nigerians have been on overdrive, you know, they have given up on waiting for elections and they are hoping for a messiah to come and deliver them. Unfortunately, it seems now like even waiting for 2023 is no longer just enough because at this rate, I wonder if it will survive till that time. Alesta, I think the Borno state governor, if I'm not mistaken, in fact, Governor Zulun was the first governor to say maybe it's time for us to defend ourselves as it has come down to, you know, us looking for ways to protect ourselves. Again, the Borno state governor recently also spoke about us doing whatever we can, even if it means biting these people who are coming to attack us. Being that, again, it looks like there is not enough political will to deal with this issue of insecurity. So I ask you, what is the hope of the average Nigerian, especially the people who are facing the heat of this insecurity in the North? Let me take exception to your last comment on me that I was not giving you the answers. If you bring me to your program and I give you my time, then you should be able to give me some respect and credit when I answer your question. You allow my colleague to make all his allegations and you admit all of them as correct and authentic. And when I speak, you are telling me I didn't make the... I don't think anybody has accepted anybody's opinion. But unless that, we don't have too much time, so I really want you to answer my questions. No, I need that respect. I need you to answer my questions. Now, Miriam, let's put it this way. When my brother said in 2014 he was saving Abuja, I wanted to remind him how many bomb blasts took place from 2011 to 2015 in Abuja, where he was living. I'll just let him answer that and then I'm fine. Now, if you're talking about Governor Zulu, Governor Zulu is an American young man and a performing governor, and he has moved all around Boromno State. Yes, I did not tell you there are no pockets of resistance of Boko Haram, but how many of Boko Haram leaders do you still know? So sometimes we should give greater our country. It's not to run the country every day because we want to run the government, and the price is good at that. The British government banned their media from reporting IRA activities. In the 80s, the British government, the owner of media freedom, banned media houses from reporting IRA activities. But in Nigeria, what do we get? When the military does good, we don't report it, but when the terrorist does this, we don't report it. And sometimes it is out of proportion with blue things that makes my brother think they cannot drive to Mina. I have explored this country by road. Maybe I'm lucky, but so many Nigerians are doing that. So if you say it's not possible, they're not uncharitable. That does not exclude the fact that the APC government has not, I repeat, has not performed to the expense of Nigerians in respect of being able to stand the type of the banditry that changed to terrorists in the North East. But like I said again, if you are living in the North East, Browning, Adamawa, you'll be. I'm sure you're still going to be different. I'm sure you're still going to be different. What is the hope? I'll ask one more time. What is the hope of the average Nigerian going forward? The hope of the average man is the fact that the average man is on the street every day. But also some of them travel on Nigeria roads, and they get it as they switch on safely. Some of them travel around. So the hope is that there is hope in the fact that you're Nigerian, and you have the hope that you're Nigerian, and you are living in Nigeria, and you are surviving in Nigeria, and you're keeping yourself alive in Nigeria. That's what the hope is. I don't think that's what you want me to give you. That's the hope. You live in Nigeria, you travel around Nigeria. Yes, there are incidents here and there. But it doesn't change the fact that Nigerians are not doing a better business and I keep doing it. Well, I want to say thank you. Alessa Wilcox is a Chatted Accountant and a Public Affairs Analyst. Michael Achimagu is a Media Consultant. Thank you so much, gentlemen, for being part of this conversation. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. It's always my pleasure. Thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a short break now. When we come back, we'll be discussing the situation and staying with us.