 Okay. Hello. Welcome, everyone. We'll start. I think the room will fill in a little bit more. Welcome to the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. I'm Deborah Gordon. I'm the director of the Energy and Climate Program here. And we're very pleased to co-host this event today on Mexico's Energy Reforms with the Natural Resource Governance Institute. They approached us about this, and we were very excited to do it. NRGI works in priority countries, including Mexico, obviously, to promote accountability and the effect of governance in the extractive industries. They're the author of the recent report that hopefully you picked up outside international best practices regarding transparency and contract management. Carnegie's also working in this area, which is why I was very interested in co-hosting this, in terms of transparency in the oil sector. From our perspective, we've developed an oil climate index, which also you saw a report outside, which looks at these different oils around the world and evaluates through this new model we developed with Stanford University and the University of Calgary, the varying climate impacts from different oils. Because as it turns out, there might be as much as we're finding 60, 80, or a factor of two difference in greenhouse gas emissions and the total barrel production, refining, and use between these different oils. And in order to evaluate that and pick and choose wisely and innovate smartly in the oil sector, you need transparency and accountability and data, which I think underscores the importance of an event like this. So our panelists today will really, I think, underscore why information is so important in the hydrocarbon sector, both for markets, but also for the betterment of society in terms of the functioning of citizens and how can they can weigh into these decisions that are often reside in very specific places, but affect the whole country, especially when it comes to oil and gas. So joining us are Juan Carlos, Cicada, thank you so much for coming so far. The President's Commissioner, Mexico's National Hydrocarbon Commission, there are bios outside, so won't go through them. Mary Warlick, who we love working with, who has a title that's slightly different right now from what's outside is the Acting Special Envoy and Coordinator for International Energy Affairs at the State Department. And then also we have Daniel Kaufman, who's the President and CEO of NRGI. So our agenda will be as follows. Juan Carlos will speak first about what's happening in Mexico in terms of transparency efforts and his commission. Then Mary Warlick will have some short comments on remarks on U.S. involvement in Mexico and also on ET, the Extractive Initiatives and what the U.S. is doing. Then we'll have Daniel quickly respond to what he's heard from both of them. Then I'll ask a few questions of the panelists that we have that I think will draw out some of this kind of cross-cutting information, and then we'll open it up to all of you to ask questions. So with that, let me welcome Juan Carlos. Thank you. Shall I stand up? Sorry, sorry, sorry. Thank you, Deborah. It's an honor to be here in Carnegie. My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for having us here. We are very happy of the progress we had made on the first report developed by NRGI. We are very happy. Let me, before I start talking about what we have done with NRGI, let me briefly present CNH to you, what we are, where we are in terms of transparency, which is our plan ahead from us. CNH is a federal upstream oil and gas regulatory agency. In Mexico, by constitutional mandate, the oil and gas industry is federal. So we don't have state or local regulators. All the industry is federal. CNH is an agency established by constitutional mandate, which makes the agency legally speaking and operationally speaking very strong. We are part of the executive branch, but we are technically autonomous. We are a collegiate agency. We are a group of seven commissioners. We are appointed by the Senate, propose each position, propose three members are proposed to Congress and approved by the Senate. So we are appointed by the Senate. We are a technically autonomous agency that is part of the executive branch, and we are also financially self-sufficient. Since the beginning of CNH, and especially after the reform, because CNH was created since 2009, and the constitutional energy reforms happened in 2013, since the beginning, but especially after the energy reform, CNH has taken, and this comes directly from the law, as its first responsibility to be transparent and to be accountable, to bring accountability and transparency to the energy sector. Let me tell you what we have accomplished in terms of transparency, and then I will talk about the challenges and what we have ahead from us. We are responsible for managing the biddings, the biddings of the E&P contracts, and we are responsible for its administration. So we are responsible of bidding, administration of contracts, and also we are a regulatory agency, so we are responsible of the technical regulation. Now, in terms of the biddings and regarding the administration and everything we do, we have established the objective to have transparency and accountable standards above and beyond the international practice. And this is something that we have established as a goal and as a condition, because we know that we haven't got all the trust from society that we would like to have. So we know that we need to build and to create the road. We don't have the reputation that our colleagues from Norway and surely the US and other countries enjoy in terms of regulating the E&P industry. So we know that we need to create a reputation, and for that it is not enough to be within the standards. We need to go beyond the standards. So let me give you a couple of specific examples of the way we run the bidding process in Mexico. During every bidding process, we established that all the process has to be public through our web page. We manage a web page under the address www.rondasmexico.gov.mx. In that web page, you can see, you can download freely the contract, all the annexes, all the companies that are looking to the data, the companies as they are pre-qualified. All the process in detail can be followed in this page, Rondas Mexico. Now, the bidding itself, then we have after pre-qualification is finished, then we have a bid day. And that process is done in one single day, in one single event. It is broadcast live through internet, and in one single event, we open the envelopes with the economic bids, and we appoint and we award the contracts. All that is done in one single event, and we broadcast internet live. After that, after we finish the bidding process, then we sign the contracts, which are public, absolutely with all the annexes. These design documents are public information in our web page. And from there, we start approving the exploration plan, the development plan, and the production plan. We have already approved several exploration and appraisal plans. You can go into our web page and see the full plan approved with the investment plan and a benchmark analysis on the costs of every oil company. All that is already public information. And many of these aspects are things that I haven't seen in other regulators around the world. So we have established the most important commitment and most important goal, transparency and accountability. So we are really shooting to the stars. We are starting a voyage that is on charter. And for that, we need your help. We are not yet where we need to be. NRGI has come to CNH and they have very kindly made an offer to make an analysis of benchmarks. They have made a review around the world and they have realized that there is no one single best practice in everything. They have seen that the Norwegians are very good in technical analysis and providing information. And they have seen that Alberta Energy Regulator is very good at bringing everything together in one single web page. And the government of Colombia are very good explaining the institutional arrangement. So NRGI has set to us a benchmark on different aspects. We embrace and we are very grateful for the NRGI report. We are committed to accomplish the best standards in the different aspects regarding the bidding and the administration of contracts. We are not yet there what we want to be, but God willing believe me that it will come a day in which we will have the full Mexican trust on our organization. And I hope also the international recognition of being one of the best or maybe the best agency in terms of transparency and accountability. We are not yet there, but God willing with the help of organizations like NRGI and Carnegie, you could help us to be there. Keep in mind that this is an opportunity to all NGOs and people interested in transparency. You have a technically autonomous agency that does not depend on the political environment and on the political transition of administrations, which is fully committed to transparency. You can take this agency together with us to a new level. Thank you so much. Are we on? Great. Good. Well, thank you very much, and I'll try to keep my comments short so we can focus most of the rest of our time on discussion. But let me just say also, thank you very much, Debbie, for the kind offer for us to be able to join you at this panel today. Obviously a very important topic, and I just want to begin by congratulating Juan Carlos and the Mexican government for all of the tremendous, really significant energy sector reforms that you've accomplished in recent years. These are not easy things to do. I think we would all acknowledge. And I think that your remarks just now, underscoring Mexico's commitment to transparency and accountability, and your openness really to looking at additional recommendations in this area are very welcome. And I think that there's a strong belief that's exactly these kinds of steps that will very much lead to success in your energy sector. So I just want to talk a little bit about the ways in which the U.S. has supported Mexico's regulatory reforms, and then move beyond that to talking a bit about the Extractive Industry Transparency Initiative, which of course Danny's been very involved in for many years, and our strong support, of course, for Mexico's desire to move towards becoming an implementing country in that initiative. During the U.S.-Mexico high-level economic dialogue in the North American Leaders' Summit, our leaders have made energy a primary focus. This has really been a high priority for the United States, including in the area of reforms to improve governance and increase transparency in the energy sectors. And our Bureau at the State Department, the Bureau for Energy Resources, leads the U.S. efforts to assist, to work with countries as they implement energy sector reforms. And so we're very pleased to see, as I said, Mexico succeed in its reform efforts, and very pleased and proud to be a partner with you in so many of these areas. As Juan Carlos indicated, I think the Mexican government has really demonstrated significant transparency over the past two years during its reforms and in the launching of its hydrocarbons auctions. The timing of Mexico's reforms was clearly very difficult. Prices of energy had fallen by nearly 70% in two years following Mexico's constitutional reform, whereby it opened the energy industry to private investment and competition. But Mexico, to its great credit, remained committed to its reforms and the commitment, I think, has resulted in Mexican consumers paying lower electricity prices that will bring further benefits throughout the energy sector. In its last phase of auctions, which Juan Carlos referred to with the Deepwater Auction that ended just last month in December, Mexico did receive, I think you're all well aware, significant interest by many major oil and gas companies and ultimately awarded eight of its 10 Deepwater Blocks on offer. And most importantly, for the first time ever, the Mexican state-owned Pemex partnered with other companies to bid on a project in one particular case with Chevron and Inpex. And this, I think, is sent to a really important clear signal to industry about the fairness, the openness of the process, and will inevitably increase confidence going forward as Mexico prepares for its next round of Deepwater Energy Auctions in 2017, and certainly something I defer to Juan Carlos to speak about in more detail. Specifically in support of Mexico's energy reforms, the State Department through the Energy Governance and Capacity Initiative has been and is continuing to work with Mexico's energy officials to help strengthen management and regulation of the oil and gas sector. That is increasingly opening up to private investment. And with respect to the electricity sector, we've also been very pleased to see the creation of Mexico's new wholesale electricity market and its successful auctions of nearly 3.3 gigawatts of new generation capability, mostly in renewables, which is a very welcome and important development. Our Energy Bureau is continuing to support the Mexican government as it develops this new market through our power sector program and by providing independent subject matter expertise to Mexico's Energy Ministry, SINER, the Energy Regulatory Commission and the Power System Operator. And of course we've learned many lessons through the various markets developed in the United States and are very happy and want to continue sharing those lessons. The wholesale market will not only encourage reduction in electricity prices, but will also position Mexico to meet its 2024 target of having 35% clean energy generation. So going forward, we know it will be important to provide further support to Mexico's regulators through both the power sector program I mentioned and our Energy Governance and Capacity Initiative where we're working very specifically in the natural resources, oil and gas sectors area. We have and will continue to facilitate the sharing of best practices in energy regulation through exchanges with all of Mexico's regulatory bodies in the ministry. With respect to EITI, and I'm sure Danny will have more to say about this as well, Mexico's intention to submit its candidacy to join the Extractive Industries Transparency Initiative will be really an important demonstration of Mexico's commitment to this set of issues and important way also to provide momentum in its reform efforts and really demonstrate in a tangible way some commitments to transparency. I think as many of you know, EITI is a voluntary global transparency initiative that was established in 2003. That sets the premier standard for reporting revenue payments received for the development of a country's oil, gas and mining sectors. And countries implementing the EITI standard disclose information on tax payments, revenue payments, licenses, contracts and production on an annual basis in order to remain compliant with the EITI standard. Thus far, 51 countries on five continents, so across Europe, Asia, Africa, the Middle East and the Americas, are currently implementing the EITI standard and in 2011 the United States became the first GA economy to commit to implementing the standard as well. Countries implementing EITI have seen significant gains in transparency and good governance that in many cases has increased revenue collection and allocation to local governments. And EITI also benefits the energy industry as a whole by creating a more level playing field for companies competing for extractive resource contracts. And EITI's multi-stakeholder forms, and I know Mexico has already launched this process, benefits civil society by creating a safe space to interact with government. And in some instances has created a collaboration culture that has been very important in fostering greater transparency even well beyond the energy sectors. With regard very specifically to EITI and Mexico, I mean I'll just say that currently only seven countries in the Americas including the United States are implementing the standard, so Mexico's EITI candidacy would set an important example for the entire region. And as I sit on the EITI board, I'd like to say we're very much encouraged by the progress that Mexico is already making in preparing to join the EITI. I understand Mexico's launched its multi-stakeholder group, did so in November of last year, which is the first key step needed to begin preparing its application. And we're also very pleased that Mexico's Ministry of Finance plans to include EITI from the outset as part of its transparency portal, which hosts public budget information as part of an open government initiative. The U.S. government through USAID along with other international partners will be supporting Mexico's multi-stakeholder group with capacity building sessions and consultations as it prepares its application going forward. Now we know that Mexico's set an ambitious timetable, one that we really want to support and are supporting, and I understand is aiming to formally submit its application by August or later this year. So we definitely look forward to continuing to support Mexico wherever we can to not only help meet that deadline, but as well with all of the energy sector reform efforts going forward. So thank you very much. And yeah, look forward to the discussion. Thank you. Thank you, Deborah, Juan Carlos, and Mary. This is a real special occasion opportunity. And before getting started, you know, in this day and age, I'm a big believer that the main purpose of a head of an organization is to be a servant. And for full disclosure, since you were here in transparency mode and in a transparency panel, I did not do the work. The work was done, obviously, by the top experts and a number of our staff who were here together with Juan Carlos and your staff. And others in civil society were also represented here. So I just wanted to quickly recognize because many are in the room. Patrick Heller from NRGI, Thomas Lasur, Erica Westenberg, and Carlos Mongeau who heads our regional office in Peru, which unfortunately cannot be with us today because he had knee surgery. So he sends the excuses, but he's the whole team behind it. But you know how it is with panels. The case is made that they're such illustrious, yes, that you as the head have to show up and be there. So I'm happy to put that hat and represent that. Of course, I happen to also like and get very involved in the substance, but I want the full disclosure that's the real work. As a comment that I mostly make three or four comments from what has already been said to expand on that, I really appreciate both presentations and Juan Carlos, I wanted to comment first that perhaps as you usually do, you are on the humble side. Very proactive, very ambitious as usual and already implementing and wanting to implement so much. So let me expand a little bit from at least my and our perspectives. As a general observation, beyond the, and you hinted on that already, beyond the narrow formalistic disclosures which many are doing nowadays. Latin America in general is being a pioneer and so are other countries in other places in the world. Already there is more disclosure on issues like bidding, but very formalistic and often very static and not necessarily very user-friendly. The notion that you stressed which built trust, I would even expand it, build credibility and build reputation you mentioned and then trust. And then the trust issue, the building trust with other stakeholders, civil society and private sector is just so important and driving as a main goal and that should be stressed. So it's much more than just a technocratic type of narrow approach and I think that should be very much a part and parcel of the broader understanding. And in building trust, what better example that there is a dynamic process underway that Vanessa Silvera, who is from Transparencia, Mexico and was in the panel last week in launching this report and this effort is with us today here. So the aim being very proactive, very dynamic, very interactive and comprehensive is something to recognize. And within that, let me mention four important aspects that in my view and our view in terms of this aim as a transparency gold standard in this particular realm that Mexico is striving for, which are very important characteristics for any such effort. And as you mentioned, you gave flowers to Norway and to Alberta and to New South Wales in Australia. But what may be unique in what you are embarking now is that you're trying to get the best of each one and encompass them all. So first, the notion of multi-purpose. Multi-purpose information from the upstream petroleum regulators provided in formats that fit the needs of different audiences. The Norwegian one is for a particular expert audience that is quite static and you cannot get it just on time type of information. You want to fit the different audiences and needs from experts and petroleum engineers working with international domestic investors to concern citizens with our knowledge or some knowledge in the industry. So the multi-purpose in terms of multi-stakeholder and a user are important. Which gets us to the second point, which is not the same although related. The user friendliness, which means joined up, which is a new notion very tacky but extremely important, which means user friendly access to information. What does it require for it to be joined up in very specific terms? A petroleum basically is a single portal where citizens can access all aspects of a petroleum contract monitoring. Operational, environmental, social impact, local development, labor health and safety. This requires in turn intensive coordination between the several government agencies which I know that's something that you are aiming at but it's not, in plan we will be very interested to hear what are the main challenges on that because for success this issue of interagency coordination and your leadership in that is going to be critical including with the Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Mental Agency, local government, water user tribulation for construction permits and so on. But you CNH may happen to be or are the most relevant agency to present this information, this joined up fashion in an easily accessible portal that links all that. That's still not there. I mean that's an aim and there's a lot of technical background of what it's needed but how to get there is the major issue. Third is the universality of all. I'm from Chile which happens to be very proud of my progress on many of these areas but even in my country nothing is universal. There are always exemptions and Codelco and others everybody gets this version. You want to make it universal disclosure, no exemptions. This disclosure and contract management should apply to all operators not only domestic and private investors but also to the state owned company Pemex which manages the vast majority of all reserves. Elevating at a general point, let me also mention that here there's a major advance in terms of a particular area of transparency which has often been neglected. Like transparency in building processes there has been progress in a number of countries over the years including very much in the energy group that Mexico embarked on some time ago. But transparency in contract management, what does that mean? What you are embarking on, that's much more really. That's transparency in the day-to-day monitoring of contractual obligations of companies by CNH and other regulators. That's absolutely a key feature of what you're doing and it may sound boring at first, contract management but that's an often neglected area. Let me finish by just mentioning for the sake of discussion and possible follow-up three complementary reform aspects which are very important because at the end of the day these reforms that are started by a reform-oriented organization and leadership like yours are extremely important and can set the tone and can give the example but if they stay insulated and alone at the end of the day they don't deliver the goods and worse can be reversed. We know about political cycles, we know it very closely and so it's really important to think hard what are the most important complementary reforms that have to happen in parallel for which you may not be the main decision-maker but with your leadership and the reputation and the agency having this reputation we feel it is extremely important. First, Mary already mentioned it so I'll just list it as the notion and the initiative and that's an extractive industry on the board where it's no secret that Mexico in the past has had troubles in getting the work done towards that although there has been intent by different stakeholders and there have been many delays finally this seems to be really important that this gets it to done quickly and before the next political cycle delays it by years again we all know what can happen with this political cycle in fact I would even go further if and when Mexico joins the extractive industry transparency initiative it may become one of the best examples of one of the new initiatives within the ITI which is mainstream we face the same issue that we're talking here in mirrors in EITI which is too much has been a narrow initiative which countries approaches as a separate issue and let's just comply with all these disclosures for the sake of EITI without fully integrating this into the government system without integrating it as part and parcel of what the government does so one day EITI is not needed one just reports when one does as a government in fact because of the reforms you're doing the moment they join the ITI many other countries are going to watch how you have already mainstreamed if these reforms continue second and I'll just, it's so complex and so vast that's for another panel itself I'll just mention the heading the reform of Pemex so all what you're doing is fantastically important complementarily everybody everyone we all know about the painful case of Petrobras example but even in Pemex they have been Petrobras like type of challenges that go beyond well beyond some of the reforms that you're addressing much better internal controls to prevent conflict of interest more transparency in Pemex the open contract issue others that go beyond the C&H mandate are absolutely a key and there's going to be a question mark if you just go alone and all this goes ahead but Pemex does not continue and even accelerate the pace of reform and last but not least the civil society angle is really important and we again comment and the commitment to the stakeholder approach at the same time we know that some civil society prominent geologists are very concerned about environmental and social impact and rightly so that common in many places in that field and beyond and especially so with shale gas prospects so the question about the government of Mexico coming up with the form of engagement on this issue in tandem with civil society as one moves forward is going to be very important at the end of the day and we discuss that further transparency without accountability and without the full engagement on these issues with civil society will only deliver at best partial results well thank you all so much I have a few questions to direct to each of you but feel free if others want to to weigh in here and then we'll open up to the audience so since Juan Carlos kind of answered the first question I thought to myself the one that I'll feed on from where Danny was just saying with a big challenge with agency coordination but beyond that what are the biggest challenges and barriers to transparency that you really feel that you've been running into thank you biggest challenges well I will start to to stress and to comment on what Daniel mentioned energy I reports touches on important challenges that as I said we have committed to deliver and to accomplish those goals as established in the report he just mentioned to bring transparency in a common level not only to the contracts to the EMP contracts that we are bidding but also to the entitlements awarded to Pemex and I shall explain how it works this in Mexico under our constitution the Mexican government can grant contracts EMP contracts through bidding processes but also it is part of the constitution the possibility for the Mexican government to grant entitlements to Pemex it's another legal figure it's another legal instrument and before we started the first bidding in Mexico the Mexican government we had what we called round zero before we started the first bidding round we had what we call round zero and through that process most of the fields already discovered were awarded to Pemex through this legal instrument called entitlements now what Energy Eye correctly observes is and at some point our colleague Carlos Monque called me from Lima and he asked me well I noticed that your contracts are fully disclosed in your web page the contract that you bid and all the processing there but I don't see anything about Pemex so where is the information about entitlements and we had very few information on Pemex and after the Energy Eye recommendation we are in the challenge to bring Pemex to the same level as we have it in contracts which is the type of information that we have and the way we are disclosing well you can right now go and see where the area the geographical coordinates the legal document the investment plans things like that but we are pushing Pemex to the same standard as Daniel as Daniel is pointing out so that's one of the recommendations and challenges that we have ahead and we are committed to deliver on those ones we also free challenges that are not specific to Mexico but there are challenges that are faced by different countries and they are especially and they are especially EITI objectives and I will point especially to the one that is related to disclose to have information and disclose information of the people not only the shareholders of the old company but the final beneficiaries of the contract it's not only enough to show which is the old company their shareholders to the last person who will receive the dividends of the project that's an international challenge presented by EITI to the world and we are eager to also to engage in pushing the limits of transparency and to disclose as much information as possible in that regard there are some challenges that are specific to Mexico like the one Daniel mentioned regarding Pemex but there are some other ones to all move together internationally speaking an EITI I mean we need to move all the oil industry to disclose fully this kind of information at the very, at all detail so there are some challenges specific for us and some other ones in which we are part of a general a general movement apart from that during the presentation of energy I report to Mexico there was a question of one of the people in the audience and they asked whether we have enough resources to deliver on all the energy I recommendations and right away I answer yes we do I mean what you have recommended Daniel with your team there are things that are very usable and attainable within our financial and execution capabilities we are able to deploy a geographical system like the ones that Norway has which could be maybe the more challenging thing it's something that we have been working since you first brought this issue in our meetings with your team we are working with our national statistics and geographical institution in Mexico be able to present all our information in full geographical detail so pretty much the challenge is maybe Deborah is just to keep the commitment to keep the pace to be able to execute on time with discipline but everything is within reach there are maybe a couple of things that are much more challenging but these are more like in the international level but everything is within reach we are very pleased and this is key in order for us to execute and deliver on time it is very key and we are very grateful to be able to be part of this committee this group of NGOs in Mexico that they are monitoring the commitment and the accomplishment of these recommendations you mentioned Vanessa we are very grateful to have Vanessa in that team international transparency and some other NGOs in Mexico but what energy I deliver is not only a report but also the idea to have a group of NGOs monitoring the fulfillment of these recommendations so together with that I'm pretty sure that we will be able to fulfill and deliver the accomplishment of these recommendations but everything is within reach there are some more tough ones but we can work together and actually you will see and I would like to make the recommendation to make a follow up to this panel maybe we could meet again in six months and a year and I will be very glad to show you how we made progress together with the organizations in Mexico very good and for Mary and it comes to mind in terms of so much focus on the initial bid and the find the field being permitted in place but when you think about regulators in government there really is a very long term aspect to the oil and gas industry it goes far beyond the initial discovery and then the development of those fields and what we found in our research is that at least when it comes to climate change and this is certainly true of safety and operational changes that these fields change over time they can be hundreds of years in production and a lot changes under the ground over time so I guess I'm curious how transparency minded regulators maintain a momentum in disclosure norms in the long term so it's not just in that initial process of involving citizenry and making sure everything works but really that you have smooth sailing and less tension between business and stakeholders that are neighbors over the long term and this goes beyond just production but also obviously in refining and transport in all the other parts of the industry yeah no that's sort of the very long in which goes to political commitment and again longer term commitment to ensuring that the regulations that are put in place, the reforms that are being pursued are ones that you know have consistency and commitment on a long term basis so you know I think Juan Carlos has already spoken to some extent clearly about the current government's commitment in that regard significant progress that has been made on the reform front but putting in place a regulatory environment that has clear rules that sets in place a consistent environment that companies future investors know that they can count on is clearly important and so I think these initial steps are certainly all really really really key and of course the steps, the issues we've already touched on with respect to transparency and accountability are in a very important respect terribly key as well because the degree to which the public sees that these resources are being well governed, being allocated to private investors in a fair open and transparent way and that lead not only to transparency but to good governance of those resources and benefits that the public can see is very important as well and as I touched on we are working closely with the Mexican government various regulatory agencies on a whole range of issues through our energy governance and capacity building program, our unconventional gas program and also our power sector program it's precisely getting at how we can help strengthen the Mexican government's own capacity to putting in place these kinds of of regulations and investment framework rules that are going to create confidence and lead to growing investment and then ultimately of course economic benefits to the Mexican people and very good and for Danny I don't know it's interesting I wouldn't have thought to ask this I was talking to some folks from NRGI and information is very powerful obviously but too much information can be overwhelming especially to watchdog groups to citizen groups so for Danny how do we couple transparency with accountability in a way that we know it delivers as promised ah information is overwhelming let's try without it how many here are from latin america background latin america or not latin america very well just a quick show of hands you may know that the snoopy equivalent in latin america which has been fantastic for decades is mafalda you know mafalda we all know mafalda from argentina I will never forget it even as a teenager just struck me so much it was the early days of mafalda mafalda is really smart that girl she's in school another class meant who doesn't share the same IQ to put it mildly and that's manolo manolito in the middle of the class during the class the teacher is teaching and putting a lot of information on the board he raises his hand he says madame teacher may I excuse myself and go out my brain is full so sorry but the question reminds me of these no much more information is needed let's not underestimate the ability of civil society NGOs which are multiple and they are everywhere to process information in our field in particular also I wish we were even arriving close to the point that information had become so massive so vast that famous tsunami that was going to hit us because of dot franc of information that information overload has became a risk so I wish we were in a world where the challenge was too much information the pendulum has not swung enough yet there's so much more to do and that's why we comment what you're doing already and trying to do further now granted worldwide over the past decade very hard for gains that had been made starting from almost complete opacity regarding issues of disclosure transparency and extractives generally and in some areas like in payments already gains have been made look at all traders however almost complete opacity with the exception of some like traffic euro we have decided to disclose for so much it's just one example we're so far behind the court that's why this is so important we're doing beneficial ownership it's only getting started now with huge lip and EITIs very much behind it extremely important but so much to do let me also mention that the more information now comes out in one jurisdiction and Mexico becoming a leader of these can help so much in a very difficult globalized environment today as we speak today Dodd-Frank 15 of form is being embattled and embattled further and there may be at best significant delays again in terms of the implementation of Dodd-Frank rules that were started by both congresspeople Mr. Dodd and Mr. Frank to mandate full disclosure of payments to government by the oil and mining majors and the big oil has resisted that throughout in the meantime Europe has leapfrogged and they're already implementing that Canada is moving ahead while the US is very uncertain on that now Mexico by going further on this by what you're doing and if the coordination of finance happens by project disclosure and it comes into your website of all the payments as well then not just in Mexico but elsewhere they're going to say okay well the US it's really bad that they're waiting on their political issues but by going to the country itself and having reformists like US, Mexico in some sense leapfrogs over the US in terms of these areas let's not underestimate how important this is and they're going to be civil society think tanks, groups like ours and many others we're going to pick on that linking up there again with Mr. Finance is crucial very quickly at the same time taking to the next level your question Deborah having said that just focusing on the amount of information itself is sufficient from information one has to go to rigorous factual evidence and data not made up data, not alternative facts quality is absolutely crucial and so is translating, distilling the data in a user friendly fashion and they are the role of intermediaries in our digital age is very important not every civil society group or every citizen obviously would be equipped to digest the information the way you would put it there so the role of different organizations NGOs, think tanks and others and the economies of the world in distilling that is going to be very important so it eventually becomes effective transparency associated with rigorous evidence that furthers knowledge and last point we need to guard against zombie transparency what is called zombie transparency transparency disclosures just on their own are essential are necessary but are insufficient if there is no accountability associated with that with the civil society monitoring that you mentioned civil society involvement we are in the world like in the Azerbaijan so out of the world that they send reports to EITI they are very shiny and they are on time but if critics in Azerbaijan try to use the data and criticize the government they risk or they actually end up in jail so obviously that's zombie transparency that doesn't count, that's a fraud so and last in addition to accountability in civil society actual involvement and empowerment which in Latin America and I say it as in Latin America in many gains of the past few decades with a few exceptions complementary other complementary measures are crucial including rule of law transparency with impunity doesn't deliver the goods there's a message there for the Mexicos and other countries like that where you're moving and Mexico has been known to be very proactive and moved much more effectively forward on transparency issues and on rule of law issues so the issue of the very making transparency really effective very good and I guess lastly for one, oh do you want to add just one remark regarding Daniel's comment on the transparency on royalty payments to government I should say a couple of things in Mexico the institutional arrangement which as NRGI has pointed out needs to be better explained on our side established that we are in charge of the administration of the contract but the royalties the royalties go to the Mexican Petroleum Fund and under the law which is not only a matter of transparency but accountability those are already public so in Mexico you can go right now and see how much real companies have paid in terms of royalty here is the challenge that NRGI has presented to us we need to bring this in a one single website and put everything easily accessible because right now you can go into our web page and see the development plan approve the budget approve actually the benchmark of costs the royalty payments are public in the Mexican Petroleum Fund web page and this is this is a mandatory condition under the law but what we need to do as you have recommended is put everything in one single web page to make it understandable but there is an we just say in Mexico that there are so many advantages of being one of the last countries or maybe the last country to open the oil and gas industry which is the chance to learn from all of you so many of these things are already there but we need to make it more understandable more user friendly as you said Daniel that's very good and really for all of you in part and parcel so that's part of the question is transparency in the money flows because these resources obviously translate into dollars and currency but what we found in our research is in terms of transport safety you think back to the debate here with the keystone pipeline or in terms of environmental safety local and also global in terms of climate change there's two parts of this story one is how well managed these assets are from an operators point of view and a lot of that data I'm imagining that you're collecting from the company side of trust from the public sector I think resides in the part of the assets themselves so what is this oil this comes into the fracking questions that have been raised so what are these assets and how what are the techniques to bring them out and how safe is one oil being moved in a train versus another and so I guess the question would be is there any place that you've seen and this is the data the transparency that the oil climate index needs and the work that we've done on oil assays which is the chemical composition of the oil on actual processing disclosure so you know how operations are changing over time in a very dynamic way so that the trust you first establish can continue with the public over the lifetime of these assets so really on the oil nature itself do you know Mary's on the fighting end of some of what comes you know when folks are you know contesting a train route but no one really knows often what's in the pipeline what's in the train what's in the field well yes this is particularly interesting as you mentioned as when it comes to non-conventionals in Mexico I was discussing this with with Mary before before the meeting we haven't we haven't launched the the first bidding round on non-conventional and this is precisely because we are waiting this is almost done but we are waiting our environmental and safety agency to release the regulation we have run beats on shallow water on shore deep water but non-conventional that's a pending issue as part of our reform of course we are looking to do that and hopefully this could happen this year we are just waiting for having all this regulation that you mentioned DEVRA which it's on our safety and environmental safety agency which includes and considers all best practices especially the disclosure on the fluids chemical fluids for fracking information regulation and technical regulation regarding how deep the minimum depth for drilling for non-conventional so there is a lot of learning as you know on regulating non-conventionals and our on the Mexican government the safety agency is finishing this regulation and we are holding we don't want to start non-conventionals before everything is set in place and of course as part of the regulation as you have been mentioning Daniel we should have and we will an engagement and discussion with society and local communities in order to have a a development of this industry in order and hand in hand with society anything else before we open up I would just mention as Juan Carlos referenced this is an area where in the conventional space where we have worked with Mexico in the past and actually with many countries around the world and we'll certainly as I had indicated to him look forward to identifying areas where we can be helpful both in sort of looking to provide some of our own lessons learned not only in establishing the right sort of regulatory framework but as you were referencing building public confidence in the trust in the way in which not only these but other resources natural resources are developed and we have had a lot of experience in that regard which does require significant consultation not only very careful environmental impact analysis but consultation with the many stakeholders that are in any way affected so I think you've put your finger on an area that's really important and we'll look forward to developing more cooperative work with Mexico and Syria very good so let's take three questions at a time and then we'll see who wants to answer them one two three oh I should say wait for a mic because then everyone can hear yeah sorry my name is Karen I used to work for the petroleum industry in the early days of EITI working in a couple different countries my question is it's been a while but a lot of the focus has been on the revenue collection side of it I was wondering and maybe this question is for Mr Kaufman what countries really excel at how the money is being used once it's collected and then we had back here my name is Faith Wang from FGI Consulting and we talked a lot about as you said the contractual side of the energy reforms but I was wondering shifting gears more towards other energy reform policies like the deregulation of the gasoline market we saw with gasoline also that there were a lot of I would say public anger and misunderstanding of that government policy so I'm wondering in terms of transparency and information sharing if you think anything could have been done to perhaps prevent or ease the communication between the government changing that policy and the average consumer that sort of had to deal with the consequences of that there's one in the back hi I'm Laura I'm I was working on an NRGI's Resource Governance Index as a researcher for the US and through that research I noticed an obvious limit to EITI implementation on a state and private level so I was wondering if there are lessons and what are those lessons that we have to learn and how to implement transparency on a localized level in the US and takers for answers and you had one directed the first one directed towards you what countries models in terms of transparency and spending well I understood the question even more broadly in terms of effectiveness and transparency in spending let me mention in this context in particular because they are political cycles and it's not a secret that some countries most prominent in OECD in the industrialized world are facing challenges whether it's Brexit which there's a very interesting piece of news today which may pose some challenges to real Brexit in terms of the decision taken by the Corte but also changes of food here but also I mean one thing that we have done over the years already for over 20 years is monitor all countries in the world in terms of the quality of governance through various governance indicators and one trend that has become clear is convergence for lack of better world a world in terms of some emerging economies now becoming closer to the gold standard than some of the industrialized countries in terms of macroeconomic management public finances how to basically convert revenues into expenditures in an effective and transparent manner and of course I'm biased but I would mention Latin America as a region but of course there are particular countries that are emblematic on that where the macroeconomic management and that ability to more effectively convert this into expenditures and this is in general and also specifically in terms of some of the instrumentality for resource rich countries sovereign wealth funds and so on some of the Latin American countries have shown the way in ways that already for a number of years the US no longer the gold standard Chile of course I'm biased I'm from Chile but I think has shown the way but Mexico in terms of macroeconomic management in terms of some of those issues including transparency in terms of the budget and so on transparency in terms of the procurement and so on was the world pioneer so I think that's worth mentioning I would mention also Colombia as a very good example of that many of the Scandinavian countries and Norway within it in terms of also the quality of not only macroeconomic management but what they have done in terms of the particular instrument for macroeconomic management for also investment for the future and for social investment regarding their sovereign wealth funds and how they have managed this is not just a question of generalizing about continents because the example of Botswana has done very well in that context too and can teach lessons frankly to some countries in southern Europe and others in terms of how to do it so in this context of globalization and in the context of an enormous learning curve and after we and many other countries have faced hyperinflation and the cost of mismanagement in a sense a much more responsible one in a number of countries that contrast a number of others which we're not going to list now where they're not there or where there are reversals unfortunately it takes much longer to build that increased capacity and ability to do much better in this realm than to reverse it and reversals and the emblematic case of Venezuela is one but we see it also in some industrialized countries with significant rich OECD countries so I think it's a very apt moment to look at other countries in the world and I meant what I said earlier that in the future we may be in the coming years we may be looking at some emerging economies as leading examples in the world for some of these type of reforms because some of that leadership may be abdicated by the traditional industrialized country leaders and then either of our other panelists on communicating changes in policies over time and any lessons for US localities or other localities well maybe I should provide a first comment of course there is always a challenge to communicate complex things especially the ones related to the manage of public finance subsidies in Mexico different energy energy sources gasoline, electricity and some other energy sources have been subsidized we all know that that's not the best energy policy to subsidize different kind of energy sources now of course there is always a challenge in explaining subsidies and public finance to the general public but also keep in mind that even if you accomplish a reasonable level of communication that doesn't guarantee that all stakeholders are going to be happy with the solution I mean we could have a very well understanding that subsidizing gasoline is not the best way to spend the federal budget especially since gasoline is most consumed by the richest right, the people who have the big SUVs are the people who consume more gasoline so even though you may attain a good level of communication and explanation that doesn't guarantee that people will be happy sometimes you have to take economic policies that are for the best of the society but some groups anyway will still against that policy I'm not going to jump into that third question I'm hoping I can defer to Danny but I do want to make a couple of comments on what both of them have just said first with regard to the issue of data transparency and so on which obviously is an important focus of not only EITI but other transparency initiatives it's really truly important but I would also like to echo what Danny said it's an important first step at the end of the day publics need to see that the resources that are earned from or the revenues that are earned from these resources are ultimately well managed and governed well to the benefits of publics and that's where I think the rubber really hits the road because data in itself is not an end it's sort of a means to getting where you need to go to build confidence and good governance and I also just wanted to say a word of congratulations to the Mexican government in taking the tough steps that they have in terms of fossil fuel subsidy reform very difficult steps for governments all around the world to take especially you know in the context of countries where these have been a way of doing business a way of providing subsidies and support to publics for many years and we don't underestimate the political difficulty of doing so but taking these steps is so important to ensure that the price that consumers pay for these kinds of resources reflect the actual costs and then in turn lead to better consumption more responsible consumption of these goods and then also our the revenue basis of companies on a better footing to then in turn lead to stronger investment in the sector so the U.S. is on record for strongly supporting the phase out of these subsidies by 2025 it's something that's been endorsed by the G7 as well and something that we're continuing to work very hard in the G20 process but I just didn't I just wanted to give a shout out to the Mexican government on that point. Then we're a time I think. It was such an important question and you gave a point on the national level. For so long this issue was not giving also. It's due attention and I still think it needs more and we made an investment for years to work, research and analysis and so on. For the sake of time I'm going to summarize all the insights you can go we had a piece, a brief piece that just summarizes some but from there is to everything on the on the piece close to home the critical importance of subnational governance which Rebecca Iberks and myself co-authored in a group site but also it's an RGI site. But let me just try to illustrate with the following observation and that comes out from that work since the Second World War at the local subnational level about 20 civil wars have started because of conflict, the social, the environmental and other issues regarding conflict and that's something we have not this enough and it's going to be such a crucial issue in the next stage to understand this and they are in the mix and that's where we try to contribute the whole issue of the lessons learned, pros and cons of different approaches to revenue sharing, bringing in and consulting not only civil society and the NGOs in the capitals but at the local level bringing in the different ethnic groups major work we have done not only in general but also focusing on particular countries in Myanmar it's probably one of the most important issues right now for the peace process and to return to certain semblance of normalcy and what kind of revenue sharing is done and what is the approach in a resource rich country in that context is absolutely crucial and many other elements also which are so important to focus at the subnational level it's not just a question of understanding at the national level and somehow this will trickle down it doesn't work that way so I very much appreciate that that was asked that may be a subject for another very good point it's just so critical I want to thank our panelists very much from coming from far and wide actually I also I wanted to thank NRGI staff for helping the Carnegie staff organize this was great and I am looking forward to more conversations about greater transparency in the energy world so thank you again thank you