 the old UI of um of of what again sorry ob s from lubbs oh i couldn't tell you i haven't used it are you slobs i see oh oh i didn't say that it's a derivative ash bad lib slobs oh bad to call me hello everybody hello hi hello how are you they bloop what's good gay hi hi first of all gary i don't know i'm hoping that they will show up at the wizard thing you know they show up when they mean to or whatever even though there's no gary would be a wizard but gary as shad would never choose because it would be like paladin or something yeah he choose something far more marshal once this or even though well i'm sorry well sometimes it can yeah what's the protocol for when the paladin is supposed to show up because you know the wizard arrives precisely when he means to paladin paladin decides whenever the when god tells him to or something whenever it's maybe i decide what one time is i that's a whenever statement that's a strong statement like when i'm done with my bible study i'll show up that is yeah i'll show up when it's time to crusade when i am finished with my bible study that is that is the end of the day when night time occurs this is fifth edition paladin whether not religious for some reason i don't even know what that means not religious they don't do the religion they just they just get their power from devotion to some set of votes that are non-religious what was satan that's going to be devoted to satan very true i don't know if there is a satan plus there are evil ones but i don't think any of them are satan well in a i think there are like dedicated dark paladin um in pathfinder second edition they're not called paladins or champions and they could be for good and evil they could be a champion of any sort of alignment or deity so you could have evil champions and good champions you know i guess or hammer style in a way there's loads of satan my keyboard's working now it seems like so unplug and replug and it's not nice i'm simultaneously happy and sad how many problems are solved by unplugging plug bucket like i guess there's a reason why every time you call up tech support the indian guy tells you to unplug it and replug it back that was the meme in um it crowd like to just turn it off and turn it on again they had that on like an auto answer machine that solved most of their problems it's kind of bullshit how often it works and yeah it's annoying uh it's yeah i mean with modems with everything it's just yeah just try to replug it back in the because it's quick and easy to do anyone could do it so you might as well try that one from a pc the previous pc had its big flume when i was in general back up with metal and everything was working in working order except one of the monitors were longer working everything i tried in terms of settings and drives and stuff just nothing was happening the metal legit was just like have you turned it off and turned it on and i was like why the fuck would that work like just do it i was like okay turn it off turn it on very rarely whenever i i said you know my computer goes to sleep after a certain amount of time and when you wake it up every once in a while one of the monitors wouldn't it was on the other from the old pc it would it would not turn on like it would it would turn on but then it wouldn't get a signal and so it would turn off again and so pretty much every time that happened i knew i could just turn it off with a little button and then turn it back on and then it would just be fine so who knows um it was appropriate for someone in chat to ask what was good though what was good what what is what was good or what is good that's what they that's what they say now they're like hey what's good that's like they're hello they don't want to know about the bad stuff they only want to know about the good stuff yeah at least they're straightforward about it i think life should be taken for what it is you shouldn't just like filter out anything bad that's so really how's it going is still like the king in terms of how is it going because you it leaves the it leaves the answer up to you good or bad even though how does it go okay maybe it's not maybe it's not a question about how you're doing maybe they are just wondering how on earth it's going how is how is it how does this work how are we still doing this how was powering the spin in the hair do you guys know how magnets work how's it going we have to turn them off and turn them on again so that's like that fusion thing is crazy huh oh you believe in the sub wow everyone knows that the sun is a hologram i think these are much better ways to start conversations than how's it going or you know yeah it's good like just yeah you know the sun you just walk up to someone and tell him you think the moon is the back of the sun because you never see them in the same place at the same time you just say wow they sure did turn up that sun high today and then and then the other person laughs at the same time except for solar eclipse i guess in which case your mind is just like melding it's pretty convenient isn't it that there's we need day and night and there happens to be a big old sphere for each one what are the odds well except the same size makes you think makes you think yeah it does one of them is like you got really bright and just so happens to come up at day and then one of them is a lot less bright and he's out at dark okay and they they think we we're gonna accept this as a coincidence exactly it's apparently i'm very loud yeah they kind of need to try a bit harder the moon comes out at night apparently light because there was a guy and he's like oh it's so dark i can't see the moon's like i got you buddy yeah i'll put on a little light just a little bit you can still go to sleep all over the light you know except for those days whether it's uh or nights when i'm a new moon oh dude that's that's how i knew sorry sometimes have you ever gone outside and there's no moon they forget to put it up like they do it every once in a while so easy the guy would slack it off and imagine he's just like oh shit i'm meant to put the i watched a youtube video about this they apparently missed it a couple times in row and so then they said oh no no no that's that's normal that's that's how it works yeah yeah that's how the moon goes in cycles because inexplicably the light goes away yeah okay it's obviously it's way harder to forget the sun because it's so bright but they even forget the sun sometimes and like but i mean really that's a that's like a plot hole right the sun is always right they call it an eclipse i was like yeah okay you just made up a word for that that's pretty sometimes they just forget to load anything into the sky and it's all just gray all of the assets yeah and that's only i was the most embarrassing like i do that one a lot especially over here in england you think that they would spend all night like making sure to get that preloaded i don't know how many paid someone to do this why is it that it keeps fucking up so consistent why doesn't it even like a routine at this point why is it like are they still on like windows 95 or something they have like outdated that's how it feels um i don't know maybe the engine can't handle it then you get glitches yeah maybe it's on the split space engine oh wait no remember they called it a blood moon when everything went red it was like that was obviously just spaghetti code they tried to install something and it fucked up they tried to sell it as like some event yeah it's a feature not about yeah we apparently they knew this one was coming ahead of time the glitch so they were like oh this is expected this is expected okay all are in front you seem a bit quiet my god oh my goodness yeah at least yeah that was a testing moment of the have to make sure for everybody good absolutely a boost my microphone to 52 wow boost mr. fringles up to 155 percent that's that's a lot gliders is down to 65 percent oh cell cell see now he's really quiet everyone he'd be like hi hi set low um just perfect now oh my god handle breakdown in future guys do you understand the hot d1 has been we've been we've been attacked we have been hit over and over again about we're gonna cover hot deal fleams that was just like oh my god we finally do it at the cost of not doing ragnarok faster now we've already got like two ragnarok e-fabs land because it's gonna take ages about the whole game and then it's like what about andor and i'm like i'm sorry i'm trying i'm sary we're probably gonna like me freeing and and rags and maybe if anyone else wants to join us watch all of andor and do like a maybe an offline breakdown and then pop that out around christmas time or something because we're gonna be playing with families at that point i think but that's like the earliest i could imagine us even be able to do it you've got to do better it's like all the people who've been waiting for hot deal like fuck andor get it get in the queue i just want to re-express my joy at the fact that the name hot deal caught on i mean do you think i knew it has something to do with that i think they knew i thought they knew you were like this thing great people don't call it hot deal hot deal y'all ready for some of that hot deal just impossible not to call it that because who's calling it hot as gosh how did some people call it got i've heard you call it got god god doesn't really happen does it or no one's saying i've never heard people refer to this as game of thrones it's always house of the dragon it's always hot d as if they want to distinguish it from the other show i don't know why they want to do that yeah i can only speculate yeah whenever i mentioned the show i have to talk about i have to say the whole name it's game of thrones house of the dragon it's game of thrones presents lord of the rings the rings of power yeah as opposed to game of thrones game of the thrones throne game did you see what was the subtitle of the first series was it just called game of thrones or well you see that was taken from the first book of the song of ice and fire when other books have different names like storm swords clash of kings these are cool names and they didn't use any of them what's that about the feast for crows yeah song of wombo and fleam oh that was my one how did you read that one i thought it was really good because i wrote it yeah it's good good fake um finally ended the story i said everyone died because the sun turned off and they forgot to put it back on it's a really good ending yeah i thought that sounds like the beginning of the rings of power when the sun tree turns off aw did you did you watch the rings of power theory did you like it i did not watch it what i basically no thought there was a character in there he's just like you what the oh i'm in it yeah he was spitting image we wondered about legal issues with that that's concerning am i being insulted uh they are insulting you not me okay um handle's great i've heard a lot of people praising that finale uh it's out now and it's all done uh yeah we still we still have we've only seen the first three episodes still we haven't watched any new stuff there's too much there's too many things what's more than one show holy crap you guys will see there's a point we were watching four that's incredible it was funny uh i was talking about all about how we were doing this today and how like i i've been preparing for the hot d breakdown plenty of notes all kinds of uh rewatchings be happening he was like he should have he's you say in like the time where i was watching house the dragon sorry not house the dragon rings of power she hulk and uh and or he's like i really should have watched house the dragon it's like yeah out of the four that were coming out of the time that was the one to see out of those four i would say the one you would have wanted to hit especially at the cost of you know she hulk or rings of power those are not ones that you need to see but uh what a fun time that was and yeah um next week i've already got a shit ton of things to do to get ragnarok and this is the thing we couldn't even cover ragnarok this week if i wanted to i'm not ready i've got to get loads of shit in place but uh i'm going to record another playthrough but offline of the story stuff so i can get all the quotes i need instead of it being tarnished by a certain dream but yeah for those who don't know rags has uh watched a long play of it so you can have absorbed the story in my god this is the second time i've watched a long play well i guess the first one wasn't a long play it was watching you the let's play but it was a let's play so this is my first long play where i just watched some boring asshole i mean some dedicated gamer play through an entire game without any commentary it was so um weird though because like i don't watch long plays basically ever so i'm not me either this is my first yeah so so like there's a lot for us to learn about the nature of a long play it was so funny he would he would be like running through it eventually like as the time went on he was less and less patient about anything happening to the point where characters are just like hey over here you just sprint past them to the next goal wherever it is you should be like no that's how i act in real life it's like 50 years old and he's just running everywhere past everyone the fuck you he was doing something through iRL dialogue he was doing some things so fast that like after a big event in the story the characters are legit like talking to each other about what it all means and he's just running around pressing circle on any wall he could find so that it just like dialogue just cuts in and it's just like wow you just fucking do you even know what's happening you listening and to to be fair i guess he sees his job as like i gotta complete this game for the people you know i gotta get it out there as soon as possible i'm a man of the people i'm not doing this for me or the story or the characters flash of intentions there yes it did feel kind of strange you wonder the thing that kind of threw me was he actually got the um the hard credits ending in the long play i didn't even realize he would have known but that's where it was but um interestingly i looked at the comments and so many people were like thanking him for the video i don't know how to feel about all of it long plays you know it's yeah it is complicated day when video game devs were all about like copyright claims because of cutscenes and shit that that's that kind of video is like yeah what hero are you talking about because yeah i actually don't remember ages ago like i remember when nintendo was dicks about it that's what i'm talking about yeah nintendo seems to be an odd one out as far as i know it's nintendo and sega i think where those it was nintendo and i think it was sega where you mean i'm not allowed to air uncut cutscenes of sonic the hedgehog on my youtube channel aka the only reason to play him so i can keep up with a sonic the hedgehog lore yeah that's been expanded once again recently we'll be wanting to keep an eye on the sonic for when kratos goes there oh god we should get that clips that conversation was hilarious bring i will kill you if you don't save your playthrough in the form of youtube do it it shouldn't be lost to time your your playthrough to be honest your playthrough of 2018 and ragnarok say them which i'm finished guys i finally got there last night oh yeah that's probably worth saying as a as a foreshadowing of next week uh what did you think from ragnarok i really really really like it i really want to use the love word or no uh i think i'd need to sit on it for a little bit longer but i could do myself that is how love the whole love works yeah that's why yeah that's why birds love their game that's all i gotta i gotta stew on it and think about it a bit more but i really like it and appreciate it sit on it turn it into a stew are you making stew on it i want to talk about how the game has wonderful like themes and characters and you're all talking about stew hey you're the one that said sit on it we are just we are just bouncing off of the things that you specifically said i was gonna say is it all fault really i don't know yeah we didn't we didn't know the one who's talking like the funds all right so uh yeah there you go so you will be talking about ragnarok next week it's gonna be long boy probably um plenty of fun ahead with that one but today we finally did the thing everyone was wondering if we would ever do which is uh talk about house of the dragon a tv show house of the dragon created a throne story kind of i mean that's the thing George R. R. Martin's house of the dragon again by George R. R. Martin a good place to start because that was like if you go back to me talking about this before it came out that's all i had to say it was like game of thrones should be be shelved it's done i don't care if they make them all go away and i saw the trailer and i was like whatever it's got some actors i recognize and dragons in it in fact i think i was cynical about the fact that there's dragons in it at all i was like you're just trying to get me to watch if i have dragons in it well a little bit unfair it would be strange if house of the dragon had maybe it was it was like metaphorical like they're like they're dragons in the sense that you know like like Richard was the lionhearted you know you could have we're like the dragons we're so great aren't we great magical but no like literal actual dragons yeah he got them they fly around they make noises yeah that's like kind of different noises too that's one thing i noticed about this the sound effects mostly they go me like you said i almost jumped i was scared when you made that noise i thought there was a dragon i'm very good as an impressionist but very good yeah uh so there was there was that and then i watched episode one i was like eh and then two and i was like yeah and three i was like ooh it's that video of Ben Shapiro's like reactions to the batman who is making all those noises yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah after the first two episodes i was i was like you know okay you know i'm i'm all right let's let's keep going see what happens and then you know you get to three and you're like oh all right it's all coming together i'm starting to stand and by the time you hit episode eight you're like was that was that one of the best episodes of tv ever what the fuck ooh it was yeah it ooh indeed and then you hit nine you're like oh no oh no what did they do and then ten you're like okay yeah that was fine okay that was a way to end it yeah um so uh i guess we'll do a brief summarization of the plot line for those who have no idea and then we're going to talk about specific parts of it and what they did with the writing you see this this is a show that funnily enough shares a lot of similarities with i would say season one of game of thrones but that is irrelevant because it's before it and it stands on its own some it was hard not to spot like similar scenes and events and character interactions but you got all your expected people the the slimy conniving people in the shadows the the honorable overt people who end up getting punished for being nice the people who are just there to exist they don't want to hurt anybody the people who are nice but they will go far as to do some evil things it means protecting people all that all that stuff all that dynamics um so like history lesson you know gladus you're gonna have to work as my historian when i get this shit wrong okay because you're more i'll be your safety net no worries got like big ol westeros the big place and then other places exist and then dragon people there's people who have a bunch of dragons they were like oh my god i'm gonna go over to westeros and just take it all and you're like oh okay and they do and they're pretty successful at it um motive for which is at a certain point you're just like oh because they just they just could right but there's other things to it but then you know a hundred years passes on and and the descendants have said conquerors are like struggling with succession because because it's supposed to just be as simple as first born male but then what if you don't have a first born male you only have females and then males that are more distant like cousins and stuff and so uh the big ol the old man gets uh i think is it the maesters decide or council i think they say no the lords of westeros vote everyone votes right well and so his uh is the the the most what do they refer to it as like the the highest born male which would be the cousin of that point i think so in this scene reynice the princess on the right there is introduced as jaharis is the king king jaharis um is introduced as his eldest descendant and viscerus is introduced as his eldest male descendant right so it's like quite quite quickly um framing the whole thing is like uh you know she's the oldest but he's the oldest dude he's got an older penis than other penises in the family and so maybe because of that but he she has the oldest junk of them all yeah she's got kind of old titties there you go that's how it works and uh but he gets given the crown and so basically kicks the can down the road or at least it wouldn't have if viscerus had a more straightforward rule but he doesn't um but yeah jaharis is like i'm out and dies and then viscerus takes over and we fast forward nine years and uh we just get a nice understanding of the the situation in the kingdom which is that viscerus doesn't have any male heirs and his his wife is uh having trouble producing a new one even to the point of uh it kind of it kind of kills it and uh he doesn't get another son and so it's like oh shit so who's inherited what and it's like it makes the most sense to go to his brother and i think that's the way it was gonna work that gay man kind of an asshole in uh in the first episode uh they make that pretty clear and everyone don't trust his sort of judgment but he oversteps the line when he's like making fun of the fact that the uh he's newborn died in childbirth as well as the uh um the wife and so uh he gets disinherited and it's going to his daughter that's like the importance of the first episode because it basically just runs through into the rest of the entire show that decision and we can come back to it but yeah uh the idea then is that the rest the show is about the repercussions of that decision almost and how everything starts to change with everyone's dynamic involved it's very much about succession this whole season and as far as i'm aware that this is adapting from mainly from a chapter of how's the dragon is called like a question of succession right i should yeah um i should ask before we get too deep into it um first all um have we read book how we read oh no you're the the only person here who's read book i think okay cool and um are we doing spoiler nothing beyond nothing beyond the season now awesome good to know you wanted to spoil it for everybody didn't you i really did mm-hmm well uh as the season progresses uh reneera who is now the the daughter in line uh fucks around a little bit and uh as a result get to in a position where where the the king is like you've got to be marrying for political reasoning and you've got to strengthen your line because you're going to inherit shit unfortunately she's not too interested in the husband she's set with and neither is that husband interested in her he has the big homo and so they end up doing whatever they want to do and that causes even more problems because her children and not is so to speak and that uh plays a big role in getting understood by more and more people and then it only takes like a bit of a tumbling by different people to start an avalanche of who really should be the king and the series eventually dies which causes a huge vacuum and then the two sides of should it be his eldest heir or should it be the eldest male heir and uh the two sides put forth their decisions and it causes a big old war that ends with an accident this season ends with one of them getting killed the first blood of sorts and so it's just setting up a huge war that's going to happen between this whole family very curious if they're going to start again after a time skip or yes carrying right on after because they they've done a decent amount of time skips during these episodes so you kind of feel like everything's on the table in that regard so it's it's interesting you never know if the next episode it'll be next week or years and years down the road to help understand that or potentially to make it way worse who knows we'll find out i made this handy guide i'm so glad that you did that as i was watching it so this is what font is this oh my goodness this game of thrones font is this font of the dragon yes onto the dragon because that's really cool in white on the left is the episode numbers the black is is how much time in years has passed um and then you got your characters and uh the crosses just mean they weren't in the episode i think and the funny thing is i think i missed out on some of them but you know i got the important stuff all right this is to keep track because it gets confusing especially when you from episode one to the end i think we passed like 20 years then like that um is your name really yeah it is 20 years which is insane um oh it's 29 years from the like prologue of episode yeah i guess if you go from a prologue it's like 30 yeah yeah i see a name you forgot i think who is crazy i forgot her name helena mostly i'm sherry that's why you're here because you can help us out you can say her name is she's my daughter and i love her oh she is crazy how come lionel in episode six reminds me of rich evans oh my god well so that was actually something that struck me straight away it was just kind of cool to comment on right the most obvious in terms of change over episodes is for series they degrade him like quite well throughout all of it and uh someone i just want to praise is you know for someone who doesn't have the context he's basically got i think leprosy that's the best kind of leprosy related disease yeah some kind of flesh eating disease that just slowly kind of takes you away you start to eat away very delicious king flesh yes very tasty he's a very tasty man if he was he was less delicious than his his disease would have taken much much longer arguably never but he's he's like a yummy dessert a savory rich chocolate pie they are yum do an excellent job of doing that nice and slowly show a wound on his back and a wound on his finger and like the first episode in the first episode yeah yeah just a little thing on the back that they're checking out a little finger there's a throwaway line in the second episode where mellows the grand master is like um yeah just will shove your finger in these maggots and they'll eat the rot away and then the next episode is missing a finger and then the next episode is missing an arm you know i don't know that's a throwaway line because he does they they do have the maggot jar on everything i was gonna say it's quite a focus like because yeah the and that's the thing right you're on you're kind of on board with it you're like that probably will work right dead flesh good stuff but yeah as you said the following episode yeah that was a thing yeah the two fingers is hair um as you can i think by episode three you can start to see his hair is thinning as well they they do that he starts his like gait and balance much worse he just uh isn't isn't as uh sort of confident as he walks and you've got um lots of just like you see is that he's in a like a bath at one point in episode four and it's like sores everywhere so you know it's just like body wide um and yeah like when they do the tight tenure jump and he's just lost the whole arm it's like oh man yeah he's everything's so much more labored at that point he wants to rest more and sit down more he just doesn't have that energy he used to he still wants to do things but he just can't really do it the same way when you go back to episode one he's downright you know bringing his steps sort of thing he's just relatively full health and it's like oh man you get yeah ruined because yeah you can see whether or the final um it's not just all of the symptoms being like he's he's lost an eye can't really walk without severe assistance he's uh he's like gaunt covered in sores um they've got like a sound effect whenever he breathes where it sounds like it's um it almost sounds like an old fan in a pc that's like really struggling to spin where it's just uh it is like his lungs are fucked as well and his nails are like bleeding he's just falling apart yeah and and he's uh he's just falling apart it's part of a plot point right that you assume that uh the high towers are like feeding him milk of the poppy to make it so that they can just control everything but uh allison even says like you have no idea what he's like without it and we do see that at one point he's just in agony basically yeah i mean it it looks like otto is like legitimately kind of worried when the saris tells him no i don't want it don't give it to me i need to well he might have been worried he might have been worried because that means that the saris is like mentally cognizant and he can step in not let otto rule around him but yeah it's concerning for his health as well because this is kind of what i was hoping we would do just sort of jump around but like do you you know like i don't think in the in this world neither game of thrones that anybody except like a couple of exceptions are just a pure one-dimensional sort of approach in terms of like are they just evil or they're just good yeah um yeah so the mountain is like pure evil right for ramsey yeah and that's basically it yeah you're on from the books you're on the show you're good but yeah well yeah close um yeah with otto i think they did a pretty good job in the opening few episodes to make you think he is just conniving and wants the you know assert his own power and stuff and there's a couple of lines that really support it but i always thought it was it was a really good choice but i think that episode four he's booted out and um i think it was episode four or five he has a scene with um with allison where he's desperate to tell her like he knows how this works i've seen it's so fucking good like how a really small scene can like totally recontextualize a character and their motivations because like everyone including her is so sure that he did everything he did because he was selfish and like right no he leaves his head high and just explains to her like you need to be so careful because they can kill you whenever they want pretty much and they have the motive to uh yeah and then like hugging her and giving her a kiss and stuff and it's just like otto needs that scene it really it really just it explains so much it doesn't take up too much time we've never really we've never seen him like this up to this point when he's essentially having a heart to heart or as close as he can get to heart to heart with his daughter you know explaining he's so focused on you know he's not he's emotional but he's really that that side of him just doesn't come out so seeing him like that with his daughter was it's good to know that that's there that is part of him the the small things that make the characters more three-dimensional yeah i think it ends with him saying either you prepare agon to rule you cleave to raniera and pray for her mercy which uh i think is enough to tell you it's what turns allison like he's the reason she goes from being hyper innocent and following the rules to what she ends up as i mean around the same time she's also provided with proof about how raniera lied to her in front of the godswood so that's also an interesting that specific line because something that comes across to me is a sort of thematic element present throughout the series is essentially like people's motivations in terms of personal relationships and like what they feel is good and right to do to other people clashing against the expectations of the world and the way that things just work and that feels to me like a strong example of that they're meant to be friends but it's like well yeah but the system will make her uh like it's a system where one of you has to win and mistakes are incredibly high so you need to play the game as though that's going to happen rather than uh the friendship that you two have you know essentially allowing allowing some level of coexistence that's like one of the things that was throughout the show of like the personal relationships between characters clashing against the way that the world works and that most of the time the way that the world works wins out in terms of changing how people act yeah they are molded by a world that was almost molded by the people who came before it's like a result of um a lot of these systems being in place because the fact that just end points of how human nature often goes a lot of the decisions in this show are made preemptively to prevent someone else from doing something that they expect they could or might do yeah to protect themselves and the causes that it often leads to really bad outcomes um i mean i said pretty clearly like right at the end of the show it's like yeah the the system kind of caused this and then like look at what the consequences are going to be yeah especially when you when you present that kind of a message to a modern audience when we live in such a a very progressive very particularly all of us we live in all these very nice places with you know good justice systems and all this stuff around us and it's just a different world for them so it gets really it kind of it strains your modern sort of way of thinking with how they act and it's it's really tough to be too critical of a lot of the things they do once you get into the mindset of they just live in a different world than we do yeah and that's the thing it's like a much less optimistic fox in the hound i i find it cringe when people like outright condemn any of these characters for one decision that's either dubious or just something that's kind of harsh when it's just like you have any idea of the world they live in like what what they have to deal with is a little bit more complicated than just like for example uh everyone feeling like allison loses all stock when she says bring me uh lu saris's eye or just saris i can't remember which one was just like i don't know she just had her own son's eye torn out and that nobody's going to do anything about it pretty angry like stuff like that this decisions throughout that are just like people um the one i really want to talk about is christin cole i find him to be uh fascinating in terms of some of the choices they made and then how people reacted to him oh yeah he's probably yeah really a fascinating example in that regard he's got the uh he is certainly our dark lancelot type um yeah so we'll have to see what becomes of him what we'll have to do i think is probably go character by character um okay i'll delay visceris because i know that there are some people on the way to this podcast who are really gonna want to talk about him so since we kind of talked a little bit about auto should we just start with him sure kind of a little bit right uh he's he was the hand of the king for the prior king and uh he comes in on what's the hand of the king mawler i guess that's fair a lot of people won't know it's essentially it's a kind of a cool role because um it feels like it would be there it feels like a real one but i don't know if it's based on necessarily anything in history that's as close i assume advises exist but the hand of the king in the game of thrones universe is a super important role but it's completely made up he's like the he's like the secretary of state in a way um he's uh he's a royal kind of yeah he's the guy if the king he's he's essentially yeah number two as you said in the in the royal not not like line of ascension but he is yeah like a vice president if uh i don't know anyone who's got a more authority than the hand of the king apart from the king uh yeah to the point where if the king is otherwise indisposed the hand sits on the throne like this yes that's the kind of power they can have and that's used effectively by a lot of hands uh he is often compared with tywin i uh i can understand that but they are quite different auto i find to be a lot more um deepish when it comes to overstating like tywin will command a room every time nobody can beat him but auto will submit depending on more subtle i think that's because tywin is actually the head of house lannister right he's the lord of castley rock whereas auto's brother is the lord of old town i don't know that if he was the lord of old town that he would necessarily because i think it's more tywin's character than necessarily that he's the head of lannisters um because uh you you see this uh one of the best examples i find in the show that i really love was you have viserys is just angry in episode three he's chilling out he's doing different things he's trying to get things to work with ranira and getting him married um i think it's one of the lannisters that tries fails and then talks to him and uh and he's just like he's angry and drunk and so like starts picking apart everything he's saying and he's kind of got that attitude with everybody auto tries something he's like what if what if you marry ranira to my grandson and your grandson you know that that could work and like um viserys is like outraged by the suggestion it's like so dumb and auto immediately is like we'll talk about it later no problem from yeah tywin wouldn't do that no tywin would push it but also i consider that just it's an important difference and an interesting one that auto it's like like oh i'm sinking here better abandoned there's no point in doing this isn't working my strategy's all wrong and you see that a couple of times like when he finds out the uh what ranira has been doing in episode i want to say four and you get that scene where he's just thinking about whether or not he's even going to tell the series because he knows that it could cost him his job or his life uh because that that might even be thinking about like what the implications are for the realm yeah that there's there's a lot going on for him because this is the thing i i don't quite believe that he's only self interested i think there's more going on especially for characters that are older because they've seen or are aware of this happening before and what people will do and certainly aware of the effects of if you know the state of the the palace the state of you know the city in the realm it will affect me and my daughter in our ability to continue carrying on he's not he's he's not disconnected from the reality of the world outside the castle and in it i'm going to be saying this a lot because it's true but the performance is fantastic the research and it was an excellent choice of actor he's incredibly subtle with a lot of expressions my favorites being when uh uh amond sort of gets everybody to calm down by saying you know don't mourn me mother i i may have lost an eye but i got a dragon and one of the quick shots they show is the auto is like holy shit that kid knows what he's doing like i'm impressed another good example when he got our dismissed as a hand like when uh when viscera's basically just told him like yeah you're done that scene is fantastic for the dialogue there's a lot i have to praise about it i don't know if we'll probably tackle it when we get to the series but you're right the auto side of it i'd say he's really struggling to figure out how he should take his next step in that scene i think that's uh that was the impression i got because just always like in every scene that he's in the impression that you get with him it's not even really an impression it's exactly what's happening is that he is like carefully considering the consequences of like every single word that he chooses like what it means in terms of how we can direct uh you know events and get the outcomes he wants he's just a very observant and deliberate character very uh chess playery because even in one episode and this is the thing i wasn't fond of episode one my first story i was like eh but on rewatches i was like no episode one is pretty much as strong as the strongest episode i think episode one's like it's tied for best with me that's the thing with me though is that i just i had bad faith for the show i was like fuck you i watched the guy okay i was like i was coming in expecting it to be like off the heels of season eight you know yeah it's really good um i think another defining difference between taiwan and otto is that um both of their daughters are married to the king right as his like second choice of life because viscerus is um viscerus wife dies and um robert's betrothed liana gets killed before he can marry her and um but the difference is that otto like gets allicent to marry viscerus by like subterfuge he like implants her in his chambers and just like kind of slowly has her seduce him and then when the idea of remarriage comes up he's like oh yeah cool i'll marry her whereas taiwan's like you're gonna marry my daughter yeah and robert's like okay fine okay then because yeah well what you'll highlight as well is i love that what he announces he's marrying allicent he's happy allicent is like worried that everyone else is upset because politically speaking it's a really bizarre choice trash move you could see otto's face where he's just like yes i can't believe it worked yeah very subtle sort of yeah yeah how good is that for him and his house excellent yeah well and that plays in because like his brother is fully aware of all of this and all the plans and stuff and when we see them in the next episode where agon is like two years old he's like uh you know his brother's talking to him about how like it's like well it's your job now to convince the king that the correct decision here is to choose a particular air like they are openly is taiwan had no one pulling his strings right no yeah but hobbit high tower seems to have power over otto high tower yeah yeah and um yeah just openly talking about treason in the middle of like this party because that's these characters they all know the reality is the situation they all know they can push and pull uh where they want to and you know uh again about otto's sort of in just episode one you have uh daemon doing like horrors with the the city watch and you know like you might question as a viewer like why why was he someone who's like chaotic put in charge of uh the city watch and the series basically points that out to uh otto when otto is complaining about he's like you're the one that the decided to put him with the city watch and that was after you made him like uh master of coin and that was after was he master of ships at one point as well like he put him on several roles and he was failing all of them and it should become clear that otto did that on purpose he uh he tried to give him roles so that he could show how bad he is at all of the roles and then argue that that's a reason why he should be disinherited that was like his whole goal and he was relatively successful he was uh something else that pushed over the edge the uh the comments about the kid the it was the it was the old give him enough rope to hang himself with kind of thing like uh you can tell in the scenes the series is like pissed at him because he's like you're the one that suggested he should be commander of city wash and he's just like yeah i know like it's it's not an uncalculated move but then um he said like uh there's an implication that he would uh daemon would kill the series to take the throne by being uh next in line and um uh visiri said daemon doesn't have the patience to be king and there's this line from otto he says uh the gods have yet to make a man who lacks the patience for absolute power and it's so cool because you just feel like he's talking about himself yeah exactly in in my video on the episode i make videos sometimes um i'm like visiris is like did you just what did you fucking say you you said that oh my god yeah and that by the way we'll get into it with visiris because uh he's so much more aware that any of the characters give visiris credit for like they all think he's like a bumbling idiot who can be pulled left right and center but with a lot of what visiris said he's he's more than aware of what everyone's up to and yeah obviously to otto's chagrin when he gets fucking fired and yeah that cd's just like when he dresses him down fully he's just like york please like because he's just got nothing i just realized who's missing from your chart there's a couple people missing actually but who are you thinking about but but reynice isn't there i deliberately didn't have she didn't earn her right to be on this chart oh really oh is that that spoilers main spoilers everybody spoilers everybody it is a form of spoiler friends with the princess reynice we'll get there because you know in episode two i think it is reynice is like um to reynira you know your dad's not an idiot like she is willing to say it out loud like people plan around him and shit but he's not an idiot um yeah um a lot of every line the otto comes out within a lot of these episodes they're always to just push everything in the directions he wants and oftentimes to assert power as well um i think the first thing he's we see him say call this is like complaining about the stepstones and they've responded to him already but he keeps complaining and then otto's just like uh the crown has heard your we've taken your complaint under advice yeah it's almost like he's concluding the conversation even though the king is right there like and you can say like well that's part of the hand's job but it's just like he doesn't lose opportunities to assert the fact that he's in charge of a lot of stuff and then later on um he says being at the king's council does not make you the king's equal and it's like yes who are you who are you yeah of course he considers himself uh equal if not superior at that point uh yeah and then there's of course the the king wants to go to dragonstone to talk to daemon directly and otto is like that's way too dangerous you can't do that he could you know anything could happen he could kill you and then when he gets there and daemon's like why isn't the king here and he's like he would never lower himself to be here like otto you slimy bitch um and yeah that's again i think otto goes in his place because otto has no intention of moving things out he wants that to begin a uh a civil well i was about to say a civil war a partial war that he can just like you know win daemon on his own should be pretty simple and if we can even kill daemon that might be better for the realm overall as well as just getting him out of the way because daemon and otto fucking hate each other in this show um and it's pretty clear because it's a lot of fun i would go as far as saying otto is a big fan of order and daemon is probably the most chaotic character in the whole season yep a lot of fun in that correction yeah but yeah ranira actually is the one that fucks all that up because she actually sorts it out yeah otto like kind of underestimates well it just doesn't expect that she's gonna do something like that yeah i think you could say that overall otto underestimates ranira until that that conversation episode five when she's like oh no ranira is gonna fucking kill you all well and uh on top of his hatred for daemon right when daemon is clearly in need of help for the stepstones um he's told that the king and then otto's like daemon and the sea snakes started their war without his grace's leave it would make the crown appear weak to assist them now like he will always be pushing to hope that daemon fucking dies in that war if anything because the the credit like there's a thing that the motivation's always crossover and you can understand more reason for why different things are pushed in different directions i love the uh when ranira and daemon arrive in episode nine oh eight um no one greets them except like some dude who eventually comes out and then when we go into the uh the small council chamber they as like uh you know daemon and ranira have arrived and otto says uh i presume they were greeted as befits their station and you they have a shot of like allison being confused which isn't even else going on because she wouldn't have had that happen but otto made sure that happened just like you know appearances are everything as with uh agon being made king they need it to be seen they need it to have all of the great forward normal ceremonial things so then they can just be like this is just official and true everyone accepts it because otto is one of the best characters at getting across the everyone knows what's coming with the succession crisis because succession crises are extremely scary and that's what informs his conversation with allison in episode five right uh this is the grim reality that a lot of people would never ever ever want to deal with but otto does which is when he says uh the lord commander take your knights go to dragon stone and basically just get the job done quick and it's like that's horrible that's betrayal it's disgusting that's what the series would never want it's like yeah i wonder if you'll say that but that's how we hit the end of season three where everyone is dead like also hi shan hello what we're our plan is to talk about the whole show character by character we've started with otto oh awesome awesome uh unfortunately i won't be able to stay for too long but i definitely want to make an appearance because how's the dragons i love it it's very good i'm pretty good i know it's kind of interesting because you dropped off game of thrones did you yeah yeah i'm i purposely like ducked out after season five or six i forget which one exactly based that is yeah it's a good time to drop out if ever i still go earlier if it would be without you know it's fine no man season six is the best season just ask you read it they know they i remember them like that happens in season six battle the bastards big dumb battle hell yeah it was a good spectacle rain formations yeah it was a good spectacle that people were like wow none of that made any sense is like shut up shut up shut up that's why i watch game of thrones hmm well that's the interesting thing is the big green explosion in the next episode so the season was really good people do like evil that's why friendly fires is oh my god oh that was funny yeah well what helped out is that i guess i i had very little baggage or i guess you know annoyance over game of thrones uh going into house of the dragon and don't get me wrong like i've reviewed you know the long night and sorry you know it's all dumb and everything but i was certainly able to watch house of the dragon kind of its its own self-contained thing uh and as a result i was like oh wow it's actually not too bad i'm enjoying this and yeah i thought it was pretty good there were one of many people who were surprised including myself who was like god this was this was not a shit as i thought and then downright it's like this is good good yeah and i recommend everyone check out and i was like wait what the fuck's going on here this is this is like better yeah like what happened this is like well it is like a different team and it's been some time and they probably know are there any any shared creators um high ups no what about low ups low downs um i'm not too sure about the entire crew of the show why not i'd imagine they probably would have had some people because even supotnik right he was uh like a veteran but he's out now yeah yeah but he wasn't a show runner he was just a director a director who can't shoot night scenes to save his life and blame people's tvs was always was he that he was at that night battle that you showed me yes that was the first that was the first episode of any game of thrones i'd ever seen was when i became your emotional support animal after season eight was like three episodes in and you showed me that episode and you had to explain in detail why everything was terrible and everything's awful that really upset me that episode it absolutely annihilated me i don't know any of these people were and i hated it three and five stole from me my passionate investment in game of thrones as an ip uh house the dragon is desperately trying to rebuild it slowly like you care about this right i was like i did yeah even even as a non game of thrones person right i just didn't i didn't i only knew what i had absorbed through moller showing me his favorite taiwan clips and things like that but i i i know virtually nothing about it no interest in it and even i had this i could sense that that trepidation before this new show comes out this sort of nervousness about oh god we know how season eight ended now they're making another show oh boy yeah there was that unease and with the constant illusions to game of throwing oh god the show opens with like a really on-the-nose title card saying 172 years before the narrow star gary and just making why remind me she won't be showing up i don't want to see that name anymore and i don't like i said i have like no investment at all in this universe and i'm like i don't even want to see that crazy bitch's name yeah it's like i don't want to be refined already i did a trick with to kill spiky if we don't him theo listen i've been meaning to we've all been meaning to talk to you about this and i guess we have to do it now but look you if you're going to make a fantasy show you have to have a cool knife all right galadriel has a cool knife she's mandated to take it out of her sheath and do dumb shit with it every episode to remind you that it exists and then we have to have the knife here it's the rules of fantasy that's what it is this is our modern world a cool knife there has to be a cool knife that's right exactly exactly name one fantasy show that didn't have a cool knife there are none well none zero there are none man if you think there is i was gonna say rub it on pins and pieces of fantasy but then it has a cool knife he kills a sheriff with it damn that's right and considering on your point of view a spoon is a cool knife well that's also very true yeah uh but you know the reference i still think that the dare is what is cringe but i guess it's to give you a sense of the timeline but you could have related to anything but i but then all the references to a song of ice and fire and agon's dream at first i was just like are you pandering just to be like ribba gay with throats we're going there but it became quite plot relevant especially relevant to the series character it's a really important part of him um sort of justifies a lot of the decisions he makes it's fairly underpinning to who he is as a character and i really love the payoff for uh ranira letting daemon know about that and his reaction to it uh yeah that probably sums up auto right yeah he he's a he's a diving i i suspect as we go through this list of characters uh be they well written or otherwise yeah there is going to be a lot of probably crossover in the way that they interact with other people like how we did with daemon here while we're talking about auto so do don't feel bad if you don't feel like we've fully explored each character plus i do want to go to sleep today eventually so there there's also that week so one down do we move to his daughter that seems like a smart place to go but sure either his daughter or to um uh goodman uh i forget the names uh that the lionel oh lionel's actually a good sort of person to back next i guess against all the stuff we just said about the hand of the king lionel is like the best possible hand of the king you could ever ask for um lionel is the appropriately named uh he's he's he's good lionel is a good man he's a chad kind of he's a chad he's a character the sorry go ahead sorry just before we go move on from the auto uh i know the flag because this isn't the regular kind of efat format are we all spoilers are on the table and are we talking about i did a plot summary sort of thing so you can say whatever you want because have you mentioned like talk about oh well not the books but only oh this is a character list and some characters are just skulls in this image so there there's sort of i think we're we're past that point uh but because i'm not sure i unfortunately i missed it but basically all the bad stuff that happens i kind of think is auto's fault interesting um well he does instigate a lot of what becomes the conflict even the core conflict slightly out of selfishness right i think he's not arguable that he does ferment a succession crisis where yeah i would happily agree with it i just wanted us you know accented that it's like i don't think it was entirely unreasonable some of the choices he makes uh i agree because if we started with his his choice to fuck around with daemon which ends up being kind of interesting because by the time we get to the point where daemon would have taken over had viscari's died he seems like he could have been a decent king not the but like episode one daemon seems like a nightmare to have as a king yeah it's probably like but um in episode eight when daemon like helps viscaris to the throne and hands him his crown that really feels like the show is telling us if they had worked together the whole time if viscaris had allowed daemon to be his hand like maybe not episode one daemon like he's definitely 10 bit over time um but that could have been a very strong and glorious rule yeah if yeah if he could have more properly harnessed daemon's personality to more productive ish i guess our controlled ends um yeah and very very the whole message is that um the house of the dragon is strong when it's united and when it's divided it you know explodes a lot of houses every family yeah i don't i don't know some houses they need to some houses have those weirdos that you just have to some houses they are like was it strong or divided crackhead carl who shows up every couple of years and needs money he he needs to yeah he's uncle uran shows up the family reunion and we just have to deal with it but uh i guess you're more so picking on chat the fact that allison is like you know he said the one day gone on the throne and and auto is like right then time to kill everyone let's do it that's an excuse well there's that but the the initial thing that sparks everything off was disinheriting daemon for renera and that was purely from otto's insistence uh and everyone was blaming viscaris for causing all these problems because there's a weak king but he was following the council of people that he was trusting and it was otto who was actually pushing for their core inciting incident that's gonna set off everything uh and so and i'm not saying it's out of character or anything but if anyone really wanted to point who's the yeah i don't think you're wrong um otto is the sort of originator of a lot of suffering in the same way i think um isn't like the way it kind of works in game of thrones and i'll try and avoid referencing it too much for the people here have not seen any of it but uh robert's rule right he mostly leads it to the small council like all important decisions and then everyone sort of concludes like we should probably killing him might be good for the realm because we can get a better king which is kind of the attitude a lot of people have about viscaris but in reality of course the ensuing power struggle leads to basically the entire realm bleeding like significantly and that you look back won't happen this time that can't happen this time surely no no no it'll be fine this time even thrones is an exception but yeah just the reality you look back you're like man probably would be fine if they just carried on in terms of like instigating the conflict in general i think otto is more comparable to the little finger i think i've seen people can like say that otto is basically halfway between tywin and little finger and i think i've seen that in the chat i've seen that in the chat yeah because tywin does you know the whole like when otto says like take your knights and kill the people who are gonna be on opposition to the throne that just reminds me of tywin actually doing that with um if you get a name the martel the the uh regars wife and her kids hell yeah yeah yeah because he had that done and this is the thing it's secure and it's absolute yeah and that's the thing i think that anyone could be like wow what a fucking demon of a person but at the same time it's like yeah but the only reason they're doing it is to prevent everyone else from dying in the future which is now going to happen more than likely yeah it happens in my book that's the thing is George is like all of the brutality it almost to the brutality like it's not justified but you can understand the cause yeah the the other way the other thing that they would try and do is if they didn't want to go full blown slaughter historically they would take all the children in the innocence and put them as wards in other noble houses which interestingly enough we see that in game of thrones as an example as well yeah uh to be raised by exactly exactly uh to hopefully be raised on their side and be attached to you know the people who like um beyond right that'll be an example yes yes yeah like theon like just like just like theon did anyone mention theon just like theon he's the guy with the defective breastplate yeah didn't they kind of do that with theon i think you're right wait are you're right you're talking about theon gray joy gray joy yeah yeah that's thank you yeah theon yeah theon yeah i still though whatever a character from game of thrones is mentioned i immediately go to the end of this story and it's like theon's end of story where brand could have saved his life he said hang back for a sec dude that's all he had to do what he's like you know that's what four seconds theon that's that's what makes a good king though uh-huh yeah allowing people who want to defend you with their lives just just having them die for the lulls i guess willing to make the unpopular decisions he's he does the the far quad yeah sacrifice making you know that's really bad decisions and spin it as i'm willing to make the unpopular decisions your death is a sacrifice that i am i'm just i don't know i'm just i guess i'm willing to make it yeah so i don't enjoy our talks yeah i actually think that's fit do you do you think he's like the the satan of the entire show at that point then shad who theon gray joy no auto is he the satan kind of i mean um it depends on what sense you mean it's interesting i think he's actually very self-serving but he tries to justify his own interest by saying it's the good it's i'm actually doing it for the good of the realm so he thinks i don't doing it for the good i think that if i think that if he puts the realm in a particular place then it also serves as being what's best for him and his family there's a thing i wouldn't want to underplay how much he's doing this for the high tower family he's absolutely desperate to get his power everyone is desperate to get their house more power like it can be genuine and honest and wholesome me sort of people where we're like oh i want to be a knight and then prove with my skill that i i'm honor and bring honor to my family but then there are plenty of people who just like well if i just move my daughter over here put her in this dress i've been talking to this guy for a while i might just make the high towers sit on the throne i can imagine auto high tower giving his daughter a butt slap every time she walks out of the room and go get him tiger um all right seems doubtful that was one of the one of the deleted scenes but it's totally in character this is very hypothetical so it's hard to make much of an assessment but with auto i'm wondering if he doesn't like engineer viscera's marriage to allicent do we still end up with a succession crisis if let's say viscera's goes to the valarians and still gets a male heir do we get a bunch of smaller houses still championing that male heir over renera or is is it more of a result of engineering a succession crisis because he believes it's inevitable what an interesting like alternative timeline where he has two sons with lana instead and then call this is like desperate to you know push out renera because as we saw call this was he was he wasn't sure who he was siding with for the whole season until right at the end so you know it could it could have been anybody really i don't know it's not to me like he was basically siding with damon at every opportunity that's actually wanted that's something i know it's on a rewatch is that uh he supports damon's crazy city watch it yeah it's from the very beginning call this is actually in damon's camp um and then damon marries renera so you think that that was because he knew that damon was next in line um because i doubt because this is the thing what causes trouble for him at the end is that when he finds out damon killed his brother and he's gonna have to just swallow that even though because you could tell that he thought that the brother had earned his own death he was like that idiot you know sort of thing and you get a taste of that in episode i think three where he's like if you stoke mutiny blood or no like i'll fucking i'll fuck you up sort of thing um i'm sure he sees it as his own fault but at the same time it's pretty difficult to just be like oh you killed my brother that's neat but uh they don't get to interact before the season's over unfortunately he is not the same character as freya no true uh i think though that yeah like it would have it would have been a cool difference but um that they would have been possible succession issues it's just the auto would have been less passionate i suppose about pushing uh the velary he wouldn't care to push the velary inside i assume compared to the in fact i don't even know which side he would side with auto at that point that's that's sort of what i'm trying to get at because i'm wondering if maybe he sees a crisis over this because you know raniera's being named successor kind of violate precedent so he thinks that some sort of crisis is inevitable but simultaneously sees an opportunity for his own family to advance their station so he thinks if anyone why not us yeah it's difficult for me to climb the ladder if i was to put a percentage on how much auto is motivated by the good of the realm versus the good of his family how are we all feeling is you going 90 10 they shared nice oh it's hard to say um because initially i think is more motivated by hatred of daemon over his own kind of oh if i get your name um uh that might actually just be concerned for the realm because he sees daemon as a potential ruler being really cringe i think anyone would be concerned about daemon sitting on the throne early on especially but that does manifest for him yeah sorry that's just personal grudge it could also be self-serving in a sense that he feels that as soon as daemon gets the throne he knows he is out yeah it could be self-preservation instinct even because um which is interesting because a different character might see that scenario and try to cozy up with the next person so that they don't seem like a threat or so that they seem very useful and like like an ally a long time ally you mean like what um larris strung does with allicent yes let me look it's just a second let me go back to my chart larris didn't make it on this sorry larry didn't make it he was close i nearly put him on but i was like i don't want to have because if i put him on i feel like there's several people i should be putting on this is more to help you understand the dynamics larris looks the same and has the same role in the few episodes he's in okay i i got you he's he's uh he's lionel's son yes he's the foot guy okay i got him he's the brains of the suns oh okay he's foot quentin all right he is foot guy why foot guy was in that that was it was it was the it was just the cherry on the top of that magnificent episode well we can we can move to him right after lionel if you want i think we're done with auto right auto thumbs up yeah good discussion on yeah thanks dad so hey those it was i thought it was interesting to bring up actually because i didn't even thought of the i think i was okay absolutely i'm i'm we're here for it um we want to get though we want to get our money's worth out of your chart the lionel uh the first time we see him the first interaction we get is uh daemon asking he daemon says to him the watch was enforcing the crown's laws wouldn't you agree lord strong about what he did with with the city watch and his response is uh my prince and it's clear he's going to disagree he's going to say that the city watch shouldn't be so over zealous right and so he's like oh so he's where does that place him loyalty wise like anti daemon pro uh auto presumably in that in that sort of format it's like okay and then um in terms of who should inherit the throne he says the air is already set by law and precedent uh being daemon so it's like oh so that's pro daemon and that's anti-auto and that's a very safe answer and then uh when they're all ripping into how daemon will destroy the realm through like uh like like breaching protocol blah blah he says uh if order and stability is so concerning to this council then perhaps we shouldn't break a hundred years of it by naming a girl it's like oh so he's you know basically when you when you hear people say shit in this in this this universe you're like who's siding you on who you fighting for and at this point it's like i'm not a hundred percent sure yet you have to listen to more of what he's got to say um uh when he's asked for advice about who should marry who uh the visseries is like let me guess you want my daughter to marry your son uh harwin he's like no you should marry leanor uh and he said for the same reason you should have married leina is to bind the valarian and targaryen houses that's going to be the smartest decision in terms of strength and stuff it's like wow and that comes off as like pro valarian move again yeah you're just like where are you what's your what's your deal and it's just uh you discover as time goes on he's just he doesn't he doesn't have a deal he doesn't yeah he's the one man at westeros who's not running a game on you yeah he doesn't want things to go to shit he doesn't push his own house forward he just gives what he thinks is the best advice for the sake of i guess you'd say the realm right he's kind of like uh well here's a thing how strong like they are only great lords because of a targaryen investiture like um they were made powerful by i think it was jaharis um so they like sink or swim with house targaryen so leinal is it is kind of self-interested it's just kind of abstracted a little bit and comes off as a lot more um pragmatic because like he is solely invested in how well the realm's doing as a result of that like that he can't stand on his own that's how i see it at least oh yeah i think that makes sense and uh it comes a lot clearer with uh again we'll talk about it when we get there wait wait wait are you are you saying that aquaman was wrong when he said the strongest men stand alone yes oh that was reasonable to say that's madness who are you saying i can't believe you're saying aquaman is wrong aquaman lied to me he lied to me when the visaries is figuring out the uh i think it's when he's trying to figure out who you should marry he comes to um the leinal and says i've come looking for an unencumbered opinion because that's all i would ever give your grace like even visaries has noticed that leinal is just trustworthy in terms of straightforward mechanical advice as opposed to maybe you should do this like why he's like oh no reason i don't know to be in court in king visaries court find the one guy who doesn't have an angle he's playing well and what's that marry my son i don't even know who that is and then it's accentuated by one of his last scenes where he's basically like i have to resign because my son has been sleeping with your daughter the set queen and to the point where they have three kids together which is just gonna fuck up absolutely everything and i can no longer act unbiased in terms of my advice this is a conflict of this is a clear conflict of interest here compare that with otto who's like a conflict of interest this is a clear con there's not enough to make i need more conflicts of interest but um this is what i have to respect about lily's like i should be fired for this but i can't tell you what it is because i have i can't let you if i say it out loud you'll kill us all yeah exactly you'll not only kill my son at me but everyone ever will die visaries knows that he's a really good hand so he's like go on say it he's not gonna say it so he fucking just say is my hand don't worry yeah i love you kind of debate bros if he's like give me a reason he's like no he's like well i won't fire you then so you know yeah there you go yeah yeah wreck based lip or a lion yeah what do you think about that chat and he looks out the window yeah that was a little phone by his chap because he's streaming on twitch yeah chats loving that yeah um yeah and i really like the interaction line has with the harwin when he says don't play the fool with me your interest in the princess is gonna like give you exile and death and he says just rumor and he says people have eyes the king won't accept it but this flimsy shield alone stands between you and the headsman and the willful blindness of a father towards his child where he was referring to visaries and then harwin is like i wish my father would afford a similar blindness he's just like you know what i've been doing this whole time do you think just trying to get let out because it's that scene really fucking good scene where they're where christin kohler is training the the princes and you have harwin and uh and sorry not harwin uh you have you have uh linel and the series just watching them and they're quite happy the the way they film it this it's just to show like hey everything's working out and it's i think safe to assume that a linel knows what's going on but at the same time is like well everything is you know pleasant and smooth nobody knows and getting on with it so whatever it's fine but obviously that attitude changes as soon as harwin fucks it up um but yeah and then and then he gets burned to death yeah i think it was it i'm not sure about the writing making such a really good character have the last thing they do do blackface i'm really not all that keen on it but i guess it's a dark world out there it's really it was it was certainly a bold choice it's what i expect from game of thrones really not uh i know it looks black but it's technically ash face well and to be fair that is actually his skull in this image here's the thing shad you go into twitter and the court of public opinion and you tell everyone that the clear distinction and let me know how that works out for you blackface i was doing i was it was ash face it was it was it was a dark dark dark blue it's the way that the light catches it um yeah i approve linel thumbs up sad end what a cool dude and doesn't even know what a great guy he really doesn't because he's just do you think the guy you use your hypothetical if linel was still alive and still handed the king what would have happened when viscerus died oh good question assuming everything else goes as it did yeah sure well he would have tried to follow through with the regular succession yeah the big deal about everything falls apart is the auto has already put everything in place it's actually we'll get to episode nine i guess in a grander conversation but uh i really don't like episode nine i have big issues with it and some of it is just outright shitty dialogue like when uh allison starts to realize as the council just openly talk about literal fucking treason that they've been planning for years or whatever she's like wait you guys been making plans without me and then one of the guys says that my queen there's no need to sully you with darkling schemes it's like why would you say it like that just that you're all just planning evil things that like you wouldn't say it like that because you would think unless i don't know you're like you're in the right you're on the right side of this either you're correct or you're doing something underhanded and you need to remain underhanded there's people in the i hate that scene because there's people in the room who aren't actually on your side yet that scene the only person i like in that scene is the lord commander and uh fucking based breezebree whatever the hell his name is he was awesome in that scene he was just like you're all fucking nuts what the hell are you doing that they kill him these three got done dirty man absolutely yeah he really did yeah episode nine we'll we'll get there sat down and god damn yeah well we'll probably delve into that when we get to i want to talk about christin fucking cold that's where i mean this is so it's so much to say about nine does some things some characters dirty i mean i hope they put that on breezeby's uh headstone death by sitting down for sat down too hard murdered and unevented i feel like it gets the mind wondering what does that look like sitting down too hard yeah exactly well we saw it i did your legs shoot up into your brain or something or i mean we saw it yeah we did see what happened what is why why like it was it was a really weirdly filmed kill like it there was no need to do it so like awkwardly christin went goblin mode it indeed he does that a lot well do you want to should we talk about christin call it seems like we're ready to yeah we can talk we can talk about christin call absolutely i quite like him i think up until episode nine he loses me completely at that point uh yeah but he was always kind of shaky and then and then i was like it depends on where you're going with this i can kind of say oh never mind exactly i was telling you that through pretty much all of our watch through is where i'm like what are they doing i know this archetype i know this you know lance a lot kind of character i what are they gonna do with them though what's kind of what are they gonna do and so you're always kind of waiting to see what happens you know you have a really interesting character who gets to get away with too much because the writers seem to think that the queen's protection affords a whole yeah more than it does well and and you know what that's that's a little too much for us to have to infer right like if though to give a brief history it's like he's just guy he's he's from a family that's got nothing to their name pretty much um but he's a really good fighter and he earns his way into being a king's guard particularly the princess raneira's personal guard and then um she does a sleepings with him that he does indeed uh essentially go along with you know it's not he's not faultless in that in terms of it's something they definitely can't do in this world in the positions they hold very bad um but he feels like distraught over it because as far as he knew it was because they were in love but she was kind of doing it for fun and then uh and so he was like so I broke my vows for like nothing and he's close to getting panicky as fuck and to the point where he he's so concerned about the resulting uh torture and gelding that's expected uh as a result of doing something like that as a king's guard that he would rather beg to be executed cleanly just in case anyone doesn't know what gelding means uh oh and that's his his his testicles being chopped off off yep and there is precedent to harris did do that to a few kingsguard who buckled around a bit too much yeah um and so he's terrified of that and it it sort of motivates him to actually get ahead of the truth coming out that he thinks is inevitable if he thinks he sort of admits to it it'll be a an avenue for him to be given a quick death um but it's leverage for allicin she just decides to keep it as information and he becomes sort of a personal guard that is entrusted with a lot of stuff and so at this point in the story I was like okay I'm following all that yeah he he owes her a lot um and then you get the scene that I really liked in terms of the uh his manipulation and uh attempted destruction of Raniera and Harwin and the sort of he's got like a twisted sense now of what is honorable and what should be ducked to to the point where he's gonna try and sabotage anyone else who's fucking around with stuff and he also kind of hates Raniera because he sees her I guess as the object of what destroyed his um honor the the vow because he uses I don't want to say use it too much but the idea of honor and whatnot as almost a smokescreen for just how much he fucking hates Raniera because of what she did well you have that you have that line where he's like at first he just almost describes her dare I say metaphorically she's like a spider who sucks out everything of who pray or something and then it just is like a pause that just goes spoiled cunt and then it's like oh I should have just described her as a spider who sucks the life force around the same punk was a bit too far you can't say that on youtube you get demonetized it's calling people in yeah arachnid just arthropods in general is definitely frowned upon we're not doing it here we're just referencing the show Susan so until yes you know clarify right I would I saw him as a guy who was going down a really dark path but I understood how he got there and that these these were clever more clever underhanded ways of sabotaging opponents which I find interesting and engaging then you get to episode nine and he's just an idiot kind of um and he's doing weird things then you're like oh well there was also that time he did something weird and idiotic in episode five I want to say when he he beat someone to death at a wedding and beat a noble to death in the middle of a wedding and also me wildly assaulted the prince you have conversations where you're like well what if it was argued by the queen that he put his hand on the princess and thus crimson coal had to save like the guy had a knife you know you go and it's just like how come none of this was in the show though yeah like it is very easy to write an excuse for what in the chaos but they didn't write it they didn't put the excuse in the show I don't know it just seems like it's an excuse with how things go you need that scene where he's like on a trial of some I know I'm on two I'm of two minds because I feel or death what you did oh I feel like they're obviously like they lifted ambiguous on purpose and then the questions are why is it because of bad writing or because they wanted to achieve a certain result and I get the sense that they wanted to achieve this type of speculation they wanted the audience to be asking how the hell did he survive that but at the same oh sorry on the other side of the coin I do feel just a little bit more clarification would help guide you know us away from the potential plot hole of what it can look like or it's like he you know it looks like he just murdered someone in front of everyone and no one's doing anything. It would have been good for building up his relationship with Allison that you can see a scene where she's the one that puts out a lot of her own sort of reputation in defence of him. Yeah maybe like a scene between Allison Viserys and the Lord Commander Harold Wesseling where Allison tries to excuse Kristen's behaviour that as soon as he gets rejected by a woman for the first time he murders a gay man. I'm insanely based. Speaking of Harold by the way uh god I was with him in that scene in episode nine where he's just watching. I'm so cool. He's watching him all be clowns he watches one of his kings guard just arbitrarily kill a person then he's like okay put down your sword get off your cloak and then it's just like nah and he's like all right you guys just you suck. I'm leaving. To my farm and I'm just gonna be. I hope he comes back. If I'm the only one who gives a shit around here I'm just gonna go I don't know just do anything else. I'm hoping he ends up with uh with the blacks because that's gonna be uh he seems like a Barristan type um but hopefully it's not shit. Yeah big Barristan vibes. So yeah hopefully we get sort of a payoff for that but uh yeah super unsatisfying and then Cole just he seems to be devolving into he's just kind of a crazy dude going to be doing crazy things and then to make everything worse the last thing we know about him is Allison saying he's about to be sworn in as the Lord Commander of the Kings Guard and it's like oh my god really. I don't yeah just nepotism goes hard. That's so lame. It's like you might be like we'll know it. It makes some sense whatever it's like it's just not it's not that it's just really unsatisfying I find. Yeah like it makes some level of sense but how they did it is just. Yeah from Allison's perspective is insanely loyal also a simp and that just makes him even more controllable. That's the kind of John Lennon psycho that I I just gotta be careful it will you gotta be careful with that kind of chaos around you that's obsessed with you. When Westerling said like you know drop the sword Cole was like I will not uh you know deal with like insults to the queen and it's like to the point where you'll kill the guy like and then instantly kill the guy in front of everyone and she says well it depends on the severity of insult there are certain insults that are worthy of death in this you know context and world uh not sure that uh Beesbury was worthy of it but uh you know the like the whore accusation was uh executable. That's that's a broad thing I kind of want to touch on is a lot of what we see in this show is the world being far too tolerant of death and specific uh specifically of noble death. That was one of my big problems with the first episode at the tournament. Yes. I had I kind of had like a big issue with you you send your noble people out to do jousting and then all of a sudden they're like just horrifically killing one another I'm like guys you can't you can't just do this this is this is not something you can you you're just allowed to do this wasn't an accident from a joust. I don't know I have less of an issue in it because there's like an agreement on both parties going into the tournament that death is a very viable and also it depends on what type of tournament because you have different points of reference in history like you have the Pope speaking out against it because too many people were dying in the past which points out a couple of things yes there were people who were objecting to it but also it meant that there was a lot of people dying in tournaments at the same time um and so like there was times when the tournament was basically sharp blades and it was a full boat blown uh battle simulation like a real full on and lots of people died uh and this is in a time of peace where a lot of the knights they haven't gone to war they want to prove themselves they kind of even contextualize that in in the scene and so I wasn't as uh you know um thrown out it seemed like it was a part of the tournament though it seemed like they just got angry and then decided to do their own thing and started fighting even well the jousting can often um be determined by melee combat afterwards and so it seems like that just degenerated into the melee thing and like I said I didn't I was surprisingly I didn't have too much of an issue I had issues with other things in the um in the tawny scene like tripping the horse with the lance I thought that was a bit but the actual death not so much for that one specifically even with the melee and with uh foot combat and whatnot there was almost in the later years of the tournament as the kind of tournament we see in the show because you know with the jousting up to the joust of old there was like limits on the number of times you could strike your opponent yeah like more rules came in but the the thing is we don't actually have a set like um agreed upon list the rules of tournaments in the medieval period actually change between region and area with some general like guides and stands but not not very strict and the other side I guess is that I try because this is a fantasy world we would determine what type of tournaments they're doing in this fantasy world even though it's a spy by the medieval period but it would be by context of the scene and I just kind of took like oh so they went with the more bloodthirsty kind of tournaments that were more indicative of the earlier medieval period but they kind of put it in a more late medieval period setting and I was like okay I'm okay well I think that can fit hmm I have to differ on this one the only thing that makes that a persistent point of concern for me is that it harms my impression of the world building because it makes it harder to see anyone sending any uh there I wouldn't allow my son to go in the fucking tour are you kidding me yeah it's one thing if it's like a joust you're expected to get beat up but not survive like instead of like yeah oh yeah the other person might just walk up and pull you off your horse afterwards and start fighting you we did have bloodthirsty tournaments in the past and people still went to them I mean we have war and people go to war with higher teams yeah I want to say like I would be fair I wouldn't want my son to do it but if I could see a son being like I want to fight in that tournament I want to prove myself that sort of thing I can understand that yeah by this point by this time by the time you get to this kind of tournament there's all sorts of technological advances to make people stop dying like every coronel blances armors have been you know much improved since the earlier tournaments where it was basically just combat simulation the masculine urge to die for no reason pretty much the one that said remember Game of Thrones season one someone dying in attorney's a big deal that would be uh the mountain he kills his name you of the veil who is played by the guy who plays the lannister twins yeah jeffison whole brings both places yeah and there's a theory that uh the mountain was it the mountain that killed him was someone else because it was like it was it was uh it was on purpose it was a degree right because he uh he knew something that night I remember I'd have to rewatch season one but I remember Ned um the conspiracy was that the lists were rigged so that he would go up against the mountain yeah and the mountain is just like more likely to kill him than anyone else um yeah no it was it was a shock but to be fair I'm pretty sure people are shocked in this uh episode in episode one when people start dying like the audience like they show a guy like throwing up and stuff I just don't know about the legal side of it I think we get a sort of like rainy's in that and their reaction appears to be sort of oh this is business as usual I think there's some commentary on using bloodshed it's always a celebrate it was that she is annoyed like she was talking about how all of these knights have no idea what it's like to like live in it it's kind of because now I'm thinking about it I think she says like they're balls full of seed and there's some a knight sort of thing but then they literally die in front of her so I don't know seems like uh even if they're not experienced in war they still suffer yeah if that was going to be the nature of the tournament I wouldn't be saying that I'd need to uh this is the thing I my opinions are dependent on what experts say is a possibility in those scenarios because I just don't know I don't know if it's possible to just see someone die in a tournament of that day and age and be like oh there he goes rip that's it's it's like the nature that they start engaging with it uh than I just uh yeah I definitely wouldn't had it be that way in the real world for this kind of tournament uh we're at the point where people you don't want them dying or like that shouldn't be a common occurrence anymore at least of all people actively going outside the conventions of the tournament to just especially high ones right yeah well it's a tournament so it's pretty much always going to be all high born uh well to clarify what I'm thinking about you know like Cole when he goes in no one cares about him they even point out like I don't know this guy whatever but um Otto Hightower for example has this this back and forth with Damon going Damon chooses uh his son to fight first and Otto's like shown to be annoyed while I would be like fucking tense I'd be like Damon hates me this is a chance for him to actually feel real damage to my own son yeah but you know like yeah I don't think I think I think the there's a problem in the scene that people aren't quite reflecting the nature of the event as much as you probably want them to yeah if you want it to have it be a kind of murderous event is that the biggest problem with episode one though maybe I don't know I I like it I think it is and I think if that's your biggest problem that's you know that's a good place to have a lot bigger problems yeah it's not terrible it's just it's definitely an eye roll for me it's a little there is a big problem in this season and it doesn't damage the season as a whole to like the point of making it bad or anything there was the bit when Reneiro was on tour to like choose her suitors right and then two of them just start killing each other again I think that was them like trying to make the tournament it just made it more contextual like yeah this kind of thing just happens again well that was like an accepted duel based on insult and everyone kind of knows the general rules as that goes on and they can always end in death and so again I don't have an issue with that I get that both combatants enter into it you know knowingly also you put a blackboard in a bracken in the same room and expect neither of them to die you are wrong he doesn't know I think you need that at least if you want that to be a thing and in the first episode I think it was a matter of probably the reason for it is to make sure that right off the bat everyone understands that this show has the potential to be very very violent yeah people can die at a moment's notice yeah it's just to set up that yeah it's like this is a new show but you know this is what we're willing to you know do we start out with some pretty strong violence in our first episode um but yeah I guess to round out Kristen Cole uh he's like I think he's a bit of a mistake I think they needed to iron him out a bit more in terms of what they were going for because he feels like a bit of a jumble yeah he does feel like they're kind of juggling what he's supposed to do just sort of taking him down the road from episode episode and yeah after it goes I think um it's like a matter of as you go and it's like okay all right you go on somewhere it seems like oh you're not really uh you're just kind of getting lost you're just sort of walking around you know yeah it that's sort of we kind of know what we want to do with him but you know like you're not really you know he's really strong like in this world but this guy considers himself to be noble like it just it all goes off the rails and then he goes all punished and then uh but like it doesn't really crazy yeah that's just not really fun you know because what was really interesting was him being more uh manipulative and uh I was honor code changes well and and to the point where I could believe he still believes himself to be a very good man like which would be to have that he's deluded himself at this point into thinking that he still has like some level of honor when yeah he's perverted the sense of honor and that's something I was interested in he lost the social based on the you know the social constructs that he lived in he thought he lost his honor but it was through his choices that he actually lost his honor became a bad person and that was well his honor turns from a more principled form of honor to a more pragmatic kind of honor um well this conversation I really interested because the interpretations of honor we see this reflected again in the real world like some people believe like honor is always treating your opponent fairly where another interpretation of honor which is what I see kind of coal leaning towards is loyalty above all else and that means if I need a stab this guy in the back to prove my loyalty and to protect who I've sworn my filthy towards I'll do it uh which is interestingly enough the type of like honor culture we see in Japan in the samurai it's like they will do like like the most underhanded slaughter peasants everything like that for pure loyalty and who they sworn to I just have fun yeah I really but uh and so yeah like it seems like Cole's version of like view of honor is absolute hundred percent loyalty even if it means murdering you know um an old guy or tribalistic kind of honor yeah like if they're not if they're noble in combat like yeah um yeah uh and I don't know whether they're going to take him in season two or three but like I was I was more interested in him and now I'm kind of just like I hope he just doesn't become a like a mad dog that gets set on people mad clown person mad clown is actually better yeah yeah I'll go with that yeah because if he essentially exists as like a prop for other characters to like throw at problems that's going to be it just feels like a waste right what's more interesting in this show is whenever he's got their own perspectives and agendas and uh principles that are in the mix where you know you have all the characters you have the same end goal but the methods that they would want to go about achieving that goal are different because there's a lot of friction in that dynamic the mad dog character though is a useful character they're gonna use it to I feel I think he was more than that though and then he got reduced to that yeah exactly but but that could be an arc that someone goes along though yeah I think he always justifies I just think that uh I thought it would take me more interesting than where he seems to be which is that he's just kind of nuts the two instances yeah the idea that you have losing it the first one being when he's like screaming and punching uh the knight of kisses or whatever and then when he does what he does to Beesbury those feel like anomalies like he doesn't I never gained from him as like oh he's he's just like potentially unhinged I never really got that sense in all the time we spent with him well yeah when you think about them those those two like stand out in your memories is like oh shit that oh okay and then like those yeah if that earns your way into being like well now we can just tell him to do a thing and say do it for me I'm Allison you like me and it's honorable to do the thing and it's like you'll just do it no matter what like I don't know I hope we don't go that direction I'll be lame I think yeah I can justify because of his mental state at the time even though yeah I think right I think it's nonsense but the stuff with Beesbury by that point I'm just confused as to why exactly they made him kill Beesbury like that I have needed to be like accidental maybe he needed to lose himself for a moment it's all done because I thought down and then you sit down too hard yeah I thought they were trying to make it look like it actually I thought it would have looked better if he just killed an outright doesn't react like if you killed someone by accident you'd be like oh fuck oh you sat down too hard dude I think I think most of them don't kill someone by accident you'll be stunned I think a lot of people just be stunned the only person a lot of the times when something happens reacting correctly that seat as far as I'm said is the fucking lord commander he's the only one who's he immediately is like so you are no longer in the king's guard this is why I'm here yeah but everyone else it doesn't even get mentioned past that seat Beesbury's just fucked off it's bizarre he's been here this whole time as a member of this little you know court shebang thing and he's just got killed by this guy in front of everyone else and it's fine don't worry about it what did you tell people happened he dripped on the stairs and fell I suppose they did they did execute a lot of nobles uh during that kind of they do have the control of the insemination and intonation that's true as well yeah this this effort's made to make that work it's just that oh god what a lame way to kill the character and I was actually gonna say that's a pretty easy way to just move into we'll do Beesbury quickly he's uh there's not much to say about him I just think it's worth pointing out that he's been here since well before the beginning even um I'd like uh that they show a gradual sort of he's got a vague interest he mainly seems to be in favor of the series and tradition um but uh there's that one reference to when like he's struggling to even keep up with conversations and stuff he's getting on but then he like comes out of nowhere sort of to a lot of characters to absolutely defend the situation and like his little angry speech in episode nine was pretty good and then he gets killed and it was like oh well we're not getting any more of those he sat down too hard and died yeah and that's his story and it's just I guess that's part of it it's just like what a lame way to do all of that that that death is so weird yeah there's there's something to say about that kind of sudden unexpected death that's done either by accident or a moment of passion by a character and that's what it just doesn't hit if this one doesn't hit yeah because I think it's too forced it feels so awkward it grabs him by his shoulders and says sit down that he's just dead you're like sit down it's almost like it's almost like the kind of thing that you have happen in the background of another scene where he's he puts him down accidentally hits his head on something and like it takes a moment for everyone to even notice it like oh shit that just happened and everyone's just kind of like stunned for a moment but you need to do something that makes it you know you can have that game of thrones like oh shit someone just died yeah I like it as part of another show of the sort of mad struggle for the instant time after Viserys death in terms of the power vacuum that immediately forms because everyone needs to act really really fast so this sort of serves into being part of that chaos but the way it ends up playing out is esoteric is how I would describe it but I think these breeze should probably die in the immediate aftermath and that would be a good thing yeah you know when he starts aggressively pointing out that he's like not going to go along with all of this I like the idea of just building the tension to the point where the doors lock and then Arthur just starts asking him a few more questions about like how sure is he about this position that he has and that we can all start to pick up like oh he's going to kill him gonna die he's got to be careful here I can feed you as well the and then further reinforce the idea that you know uh the small council has been stacked yeah what are you gonna say ladoons I was gonna say like you know then Otto does a subtle nod to Kristen and uh and then you know he intentionally kills Lord breeze breathe with maybe a knife or a sword or a chair it would be a take him away quote unquote and then as they're walking away you know breeze be struggles a little bit and then Cole tries to make it look like through that struggle that something goes wrong and he you know basically try and frame it so that it was bees breathe that actually got himself killed by trying to attack me or something like that really yeah make it I don't know like use an element of Kristen's like he's he's kind of changed in the way that he you know executes his eye you know his his his job and have him you know maybe a wink wink nudge nudge make it look like an accident sort of thing that he goes through with when he wouldn't have done that before but this changed version of him will do that they seem to be happy to display the other nobles that they execute you know hanging them in the court in a courtyard and I feel that if they could just do that and and say he was executed for trees for high treason suppose it could yeah but well I guess what I'm saying is that there's no there's no plausible deniability for anybody in that room I guess and I'm just saying he could have made it so it was a bit more fit people in that room but everyone saw that everyone concluded immediately like why did you just kill that all bad it was no like oh you struggled and something happened which is what happens in episode five right like a lot of people are unclear on what the fuck happened and so this plausible deniability as to exactly how it all started and whether or not the princess was in trouble but with breeze breeze just like and that was just you just killed him okay he simply must have it be a mess you could have the doddering old man bees for you make a run for it or something as he sees someone going to lock the doors I really expected him to trip on one of the small council bowls that they have because there's a story in the book where where um there are three different accounts of how bees breed dies one of them says that they put him in the black cells and he like froze to death and the other one another one's like um christin slit his throat with a dagger and the third one the mushroom one which is always the best one is that um he was pushed out a window that would be fucking hilarious if christen just pushed about a no no he trips on a ball and he falls out the window that's slipped on a banana that slips on something and then falls into all of the mousetraps right below the courthouse I'm on board with that he's free falls into a as a story that's told but probably worth it though he fell out a window and landed on several swords this was their story here christin does push him out of the window onto the spikes below the building um and yeah I really hate to see it I don't know because that's why I think it's like a level in stonic the hedgehog or something it's just spikes everywhere bees breed a hedgehog but bees breed does sound like a hedgehog name though it sounds like a pretty it's a hedgehog master of rings master of rings the ring the ring of the king hey hey gentlemen unfortunately I have to duck out I was very short on time for this one and so yeah I'll have to love you and leave you I hope you have fun wish I could stay longer but uh have a good one thanks for popping in all right I'll see you later no worries guys catch we're still expecting uh cameos from neuterotic and rinker no idea when exactly right folks but excitement abound okay uh who's next would we go to from beesvary such a well let's look at our let's look at our handy dandy character list here remember just now the time to actually talk about allison I guess we could yeah because we went on sort of a what could round out the small council all right yeah that's a good point call us Sean okay I approve of this decision all this is uh the head of the valarian house and the lord of drift mark and the lord of this the tides or whatever a lot of lot of titles basically the house that's like you know we're pretty cool too Targaryens we even have dragons too you guys think you're really cool but we're really cool too and uh he's struggling to get things in place to maintain power but also bends a lot of the season being frustrated that he's not given more help against the triarchy that are fucking up his uh his trade routes uh over at drift mark so what what what is to be done of that and uh your war happens and and and it gets cleaned up with daemon but then he's he loses uh his daughter and his son through one of them just wanting to leave this the all the political bullshit and the other one actually just dying during childbirth or well actually we'll talk about that in a second laner's decision um and so yeah uh he's like lost everything he goes to just fight more for the for the uh stepstones until he's wounded and by the time he comes back his brother's been killed trying to assert that uh the viability of particular true bones or not and then he um declares or the blacks because i mean you didn't have much of a choice exactly uh sims of a smart decision much of a choice true we'll talk about reynice whoa whoa anyway uh yeah so uh i guess you know overall i found the actor was pretty damn solid and i'm quite interested in the character of koalas velar and the the uh the line that i think particularly sums him up that we we quite enjoying we first saw it was the uh history doesn't remember blood it remembers names yeah yeah it's also like how i'm in the second episode he talks about how second sons have to earn their legacies yeah that's a pretty good line that sums him up as well he uh yeah he he's very uh passionate in terms of trying to get the what he believes to be the right shit to happen and i don't even know like it's funny because a lot of the things he says is in line with daemon and it ends up working because he uh he teams up with him for the step stone stuff but uh i think it's also just the fact that he like why was he so put forward with with daemon in in episode one it's like prior because he does believe in the the rights of succession and stuff and it's only once he realizes like the people in line for his family to continue uh bastards and not actually true bones that he's just like you know what doesn't really matter as long as as long as they're mine doers and i think one of his lines is what is this brief mortal life if not the pursuit of legacy but uh i basically sums them up well i mean we can see that that's a huge driving force for so many of the decisions he makes and the other standards he makes as well especially you know what that's a lot like tywin as well yes i mean tywin is very realistic makes it easy to see why he might have an affinity for daemon because who's going to have a fucking legacy good or bad if not daemon or you mean just because he's going to make his mark no matter what because daemon yeah he's he's a very high profile figure he's uh yeah he's a go getter he's going to do things that are going to cause him to be remembered for better or for worse um yeah i'm not sure what else to say about him i liked him quite a bit and i'm curious to see where he ends up in season two i am too um he is uh yeah he's uh i like him quite a bit i was about to say there's not enough there's not much clashing of him even though he clashes significantly throughout the season none of it is um like it doesn't cause any major events for me to dig into significantly right like he uh he clashes with the series a whole bunch but they're more subtle and they move on from quite quickly and um the major event concerning him towards the end of the season is about him not being around yes yeah yeah yeah he's yeah he's wounded and he might die and everyone's like preparing like yo he might be dead we need to really an excellent choice on the off the writer to make it so because putting him in his death in question then you have uh reynise basically through the love of her daughter who's died now being like it should be her daughters that you know it passes to not the illegitimate sons of some guy and re uh reynirah and so the thing is if you do that if you conclude that about drifthmark and the if the crown was to actually you know conclude that as well and what does it say about reynirah's claim to the throne and her son's claim you have that claim element and you have that reinforcements of the reality of how this world works where someone's about to die they might not but you got to be ready for him to die so everyone's already starting to essentially make plans ready for him to die as it's just a reality that is exactly when this is and the small council has been plotting about it for years you're all up in arms you've got to be ready when this stuff happens because things move fast i think that's genuinely one of the bigger plot points of this show that's sort of like a subversion is as far as episode four auto has already decided like the series is dead and we've got a plan for it and it's like he won't die for another 16 years it is there it's that reinforcement of how the world works yeah like uh kind of but i think that's part of it is the series not dying is what uh stretches everything out and complicates everything even though for as long as he was alive uh peace reigned pretty much like the second he dies everything falls apart and uh yeah similar for callis well i was one of his well i mean we talked about linel you you just mentioned you know the reigning with peace and you know that line that he shares with linel about you know how when viscera's is you know older and he's in his room with linel and he's kind of lamenting in a way that he never had any grand battles or epic victories or anything like that and linel's like well you know it's not that bad really you were a king of peace and that's that's really kind of great you know what he even says eventually i'm excited to get to viscera's yeah linel's all of linel's responses in that scene are all just perfect logical things to say and i think of one point viscera's like you're right as usual you have this like erin thought about how annoyed that linel's not indulging him in his emotions yeah because he's just having thoughts and like linel's just like yeah but you know this thing would be worse i know i know but i'm just i am yeah we we don't want to go deep into it like the last therapist yeah to validate my emotions being logical he yeah he really just he linel was really great he really cared he's a good person he didn't want to see his king who's his friend most likely he just didn't want to see him uh you know down the dance how unfortunate one of his sons is causing the biggest strife and destruction of the entire realm of the other one killed him oh man how many you don't pick your family do you well actually that's uh since we're i think we're good with callus if we can't eat well in the game of thrones sometimes yeah you do pick your family yeah because he's not on this list but i want to talk about him now because it makes sense what we just said but laris strong makes a big impression in his first episode um wasn't sure about their choice a little bit later on in terms of just it's so like yeah let's start with the with how he's introduced right he's just this guy is just like hey i'm around my foot's all fucked so i don't really do much fighting so i'll just have a little chat with everybody you know like okay that's all right and then of course there's a lot about a lot he meets up with um with allison and he's talking about a flower and he says an outsider among the natives by all rights it shouldn't be thriving here such mystery while looking at her like what are you what was what and this is like that's more of a declaration i think at that point of his intentions he sees her as a great opportunity to get behind and help in the forms of helping himself he's uh he's like she's like a resource to be plundered in terms of she's got a lot more power than she realizes and he can help her sort of thing um they have a conversation that is one of the many examples of how strong the dialogue is in this show uh i would have talked about it in the different streams i've done on gary's channel but hey we didn't do it here so i'm gonna repeat myself a little bit but um he talks with her a whole bunch we find out that he's been basically feeding her information as a master of whisperers sort of thing and um he says the king had an audience with my father and uh she says he attempted to resign his post because i thought as much his honor's always been a milestone around his esteemed neck interesting you said attempted and she says uh yeah my lord husband refused to accept and he says ah so he fell short of confessing my brother's transgressions basically like there's like two conversations happening and once he's picking up a lot more information than is actually being provided necessarily or in an explicit way because he's a really smart guy that's the impression i got straight away he's saying my rude yes my husband refused to accept the resignation uh larris put together immediately he's like oh so he didn't tell the truth then because if he had like maybe chaos and then she's like yeah no and um yeah and then he points out to her that like well she points out that if it were auto he would have told the king the truth uh because like she implies he's not he's not biased like linel is and then he was like well yeah he would be he would be partial and then she was like yes but he'd be partial to be which is a uh a fun moment for allison i think at that point in the show she's yeah when she's finally admitting that she's saying it out yeah when she says it out loud into someone else yeah and then she says is there no one in king's landing to take my side like hmm is uh yeah and so and then he has his big old speech that's one of my favorite parts in the whole season about what it means to have children oh yeah legacy you know about how family is bullshit basically yeah good like the version of the usual things people say about family and legacy and lineage i heard stubbly to hear him talk that way about family when his dad's linel is just absolutely this this is the thing it's what a great guy it's a speech i love i don't notice his point of view how strong can be like the biggest chads in the world but linel is so diplomatic and reserved and he's just such a nice guy that he's kind of held back from experiencing the power they could be you know granting themselves this is like a this is the good version of the speeches that antagonists and villains give in poorly written media where they're like oh yeah being evil is great i love being evil being evil means you can you know you just be strong and everything yeah it's crazy i sure do love being evil you should be evil too because there's no such thing as good and evil it's this is like kind of the the good version of that this features like hardcore ties into one of the major themes of the series in terms of the perspective on legacy and how like a lot of the characters pursue legacy through their children and then they'll go on to be one of the leaders and and all of the ways that they sort of get led awry by those feelings one signs to compliment that not only his speech in terms of his writing but also all the visuals they choose right so um so he he talks basically about how children are just a disaster waiting to happen they're a complete almost paradox he's like they're they're a weakness a futility through them you imagine you cheat the great darkness of its victory you'll persist forever in some form or another which is already just like got so true some for a lot of people children is a way that they see themselves like they haven't they can't be defeated by death now because they have they've got an investment of themselves moving on sort of thing yeah like an immortality yeah and uh that's yeah and he says uh as if they would keep you from the dust but for them you surrender what you should not you may know what is right um but love stays the hand love is a downfall best to make your own way through life unencumbered if you ask me like and while he's saying all of that you see laner's corpse which is a result of the childbirth going all wrong and so it's just like yeah her kid killed her in a sense right you know if you want to get nice and broad liners corpse along with harwin it's just like yeah the kid killed them um visaries just staring at his ring or his wife's ring which he said in episode three believes his pursuit of getting more heirs is what killed emma and he's like and this is the thing i think he's gradually realizing as well is is um especially after episode four or five no it is four where he realizes allicent was set up to be with him wasn't wasn't like as genuine as he thought and uh that's another thing man we'll get to visaries soon enough but when he calls allicent emma in episode i think eight seven sorry he's going to bed he says i'm going to bed emma that's like oh man he never stopped absolutely loving emma and then his final word being my love yeah you know who he's talking about um especially yeah well again i'm bleeding into him but i can't resist stop pointing out now when uh when ranira comes to talk to him episode eight and he says my only child do it oh god like that's the that's the kid he had with uh with emma he's he barely even connects with uh agon aamond uh crazy do we even see him ever interact with helena i don't i don't think that's the thing uh those agon makes that pretty clear i think it's part of the result of agon's personality is that visaries wasn't um good enough dad to him but obviously he was falling apart so it's literally yeah but agon was like you know visaries never liked me like oh damn um yeah so you know uh larris is like a super villain after one episode and really strong in terms of understanding him and then later on he's still doing conniving things that are that are clever and he's still serving the high towers for the most part but then they have the feet scene and it's kind of like okay all right because he has a you wonder is that that's i don't know i'm not ready to draw that link maybe i don't know if that was what they'll go before it might be i i think it's just i i i don't know what to think that was just so it's kind of the thing i brought up before about how necessary if you saw like palpatine just pissing all over the floor it's like you can do that oh shit but it's like force lightning you can't stop once you stop it's uh it what i get that is like it's something it's like it doesn't not make sense yeah you can have someone who has a fetish and and he wants to have something in return for the information he provides like but you didn't have to do that you chose to do that you wanted to make him a bit weird there's another universe question it's like you're directing the question at the writers it's a question for doil not for what it's like why did you do this mr writers yeah what did you feel this accomplished yeah so i'm working on all my videos for the episodes i haven't talked about yet and when it comes to that scene it's like i feel the need to analyze it in some way to provide some insight it's like it's just a dude jack in a defeat like what am i really supposed to add to the conversation is this supposed to give me some insight into his character or a power thing i don't know like so there's a gross kind of idea that he might be like they're giving him a fetish that's connected to his disability is like oh cool that's so great that you wrote that it's really because you know how people really think crippled people are hot yeah that's it's a very well understood phenomenon probably was worth avoiding you could have given him any other fetish because that will just it makes people wonder it's like is that why you did that that's weird like and he could have just wanted to fuck her and she could have showed him a tit or something or something right she was using that well because some people have said that um people have said like it's it's good because it shows alison's like gradual sort of appreciation of her own sort of values and it's like yeah but didn't have to be feet yeah it didn't have to be done in this way we have to show that even evil bastards have needs like we don't got to see him doing the deed on the script like why it's it makes you wonder what with the rest of that episode you do wonder if the writer was just like is this just this is the weird game of thrones thing we have the bombastic thing at the end that we'll get to and we have the the foot thing with the jerk in it inside of it first off don't do that it's going to get really i mean that but i mean that's going to be when you stand it's going to be rubbing all over you and it's going to get cold it's just terrible don't do that but man who's going to get a little crusty yeah yeah it's like you know he's going to be like this feels great and then a minute later he's going to stand up you're like uh it's like it's all sticky and cold now and it's all no why do i do that uh so yeah and i think that's that's essentially you don't see much more of him after that i was just like man i thought he was really awesome but then i was just like that's just strange but okay now he now there's now he's like a character you know where he's offering people bargains they're almost not exactly what i want but then then he's the feet guy that's where yeah that's it it's it's like in my own head he's pursuing power influence and just a general safety for his own self but maybe eventually he's gonna have like he's has that view on children so you wonder like so what is it about for you what is your ultimate thing is it just you do you believe that once you're gone you are gone but then it's like well it's all for feet it all comes i mean it all comes down to noble goals when i said that i wanted to understand this man's soul that's not what i meant you know what i look like seem like why did you do this larris listen this guy he did not toe the line oh god people spend a lot of time trying to figure out what little fingers motivations are in the books sorry if i'm being boring and talking about that's all right crap but um no i think it's a good argument here that no he also is motivated by feet little feet little feet is yeah it's all wet like i'll be in too hard and we're like no it's that is clearly an end point he what is he gaining from alice it is like well i get to wag two feet it's like okay again is it just like a power thing is that what i want and that's what i hope it is i really yeah he's he's he's clearly in go ahead loves that he can do that to the queen of the seven kingdoms i'm sure it's an interesting display of power to know that you could wank in front of her to the feet and she is we asked to do it i mean honestly he seems like a character who i mean honestly he's very damaged and you don't know why he thinks the way he is he seems very broken on the inside i think honestly he just needs time to heal i get it i don't get it no i heal i got it thank you moving on all right next character next character oh alice anyway alice and she's got great feet to be fair you gotta say they were pretty good feet is this fine you know what to say i mean they were that do you think they got the actual actress's feet or no it's done feet double no it was a foot double yeah listen look the foot the actress that they got for the feet it they're like the she was like the dinosaurs and the flintstones when they always in the scene looking at the camera and saying it's still living i get it you're a foot waddle take the take take take the paycheck for your beautiful feet as far as feet go i don't know done feet uh do you think they carry on so she's uh just a good old archetype of she's a super nice friendly turn is trying to do the right thing get along in the world person until she gets like sort of broken down into basically just being a cog in the machine of the evil that is the Game of Thrones world um yeah compared to the last character she's definitely a step up best nice best exemplified i would say by the scene with uh the girl that agon like raped and she approaches at first with what's more familiar like you know what's your name it's like you okay she hugs it she's like i'm so sorry this happened bother but then like she starts to turn in that conversation gradually into just being like you know if you were to say anything a lot of people wouldn't even believe you they'd think that you're just trying to destroy his reputation you know what happens to girls who do that it's just like oh oh no um and i think there was supposed to be a parallel i think it's a great scene i think a parallel supposed to be drawn between how much she hated raniera for it's sort of fucking around and uh you know drinking the the moon tea to cover up for it and stuff when she's facilitating all of that to cover up for her son yeah it's also there's so much going on there because like allison is basically presented with herself in that scene you know a woman who has been doomed to this life just because a man wanted to fuck her yeah um right allison's story is how she is changed by being entered into the system yeah she's chewed up by like everyone else yeah and suddenly she is now propagating that system yes so thoroughly changed her life absolutely a product of her upbringing in that kind of yeah and it's um it's interesting too because she really was fine with raniera getting thrown for a long time in this show uh even up to i think literally like up to the last uh well the last two episodes she's like uh she says you'll make a great queen in the when she toasts it at that point you might be wondering if it's a lie or not but like if you go back to earlier episodes she says yeah i think there's definitely yeah there's a part of that legitimately wishes things could be kind of like the way they were in terms of the relationship but you know when you start having more and more skin in the game there's a great moment where um raniera talks about how she hates going on the tour to find a husband when it just means that she's going to be locked up in some tower a tower or castle producing airs for some lord while talking to allison whose whole life is just that especially in that episode where you see her in bed with visaries just looking like a zombie she's just staring and i think by the way he notices that and that's where he starts to put it put it together yeah he like reaches for her hand to and like pushes her face towards him to manufacture some sense of affection yeah because it's all it's just dead at that point she's she's not able to put up the lies anymore and that's the thing i want to think i wish you i wish you liked my feet i think um she is like she does care about him but not like that yeah yeah it's it's definitely it is a cool dude and but also he's a gross old man well yeah there's an element of gross old man yes it's like yeah you get that sense that their relationship is what kind of sort of naturally will develop when you have a really nice guy like visaris who is very physically frail and unsightly but he's a good person and you've been with him a long time yeah and uh if you remember that that scene she's called in by a handmaiden because she sleeps in a different room to visaries and it's like you know gotta do the thing she's like it's late like yeah but yep gotta be gotta be producing is that's your job potentially like it's uh it's a sad reality but then yeah she goes from being that sort of captured captured person in the tower producing is to uh actually exerting her power and eventually controlling shit with her dad that's that's what happens yeah i really love that's like the probably my favorite facet of episode nine is the like competition between otto and allison to secure the air yeah um i really like the scene where she uh daemon and ranira first come back in episode eight and allison the room you've got um it starts out i think with uh just a line where ranira wants uh visaries to see a maester she trusts not the king's landing one i think that's funny because that happens all the time in game of thrones and house the dragon i think we're characters are like our maester would would solve the problem your maester sucks that sort of thing like everyone always assumes that your maester fucking sucks um yeah and she says like it's been so long since we were granted the joy of your presence and they're like uh though not long enough to merit a greeting like yeah this is this awkward tension between the last time they fucking talked to each other she slashed her arm open and that they even show that she's got a scar from it that she tries to hide when she comes in the room uh yeah and then and oh god the again the dialogue where she's like um i'm sure the queen had pressing business uh what can either of us know about ruling a kingdom which is like an insult because it's obviously the series is ruling not her why would you imply otherwise um and she says like i'm a mere steward of his will and wisdom and then davin says and how is that wisdom expressed blinks wheezes surprised he could remember his own name or if you could like such a great little barb just being like uh yeah you even remember the name of your husband sort of things and that's the thing uh it's the perception of allison and her interaction with the series when we know because we've seen her whole story she's trying all right she's a little bit more complicated than that yeah she's forced into this position she's done pretty much the best she can in a lot of circumstances and she still cares about him she's like she shows a genuine sorrow and agony when when he's just suffering um and i really appreciate an episode nine where she sees him he's been like wrapped ready for a burial i guess and she's just crying but yeah because because he was a good man that's what everyone seems to agree on in this well and it um i think that allison's embodies it's it's basically the embodiment of one of those core themes about the clashing of uh personal you know like emotions personal investment in other people and the rules and nature of the world and the obligations imposed on people in the expectations like that's her constant battle is essentially that uh that battle between herself and like the role that she's expected to fill and then gradually sort of figuring out how she's going to occupy that role um that seems to me like a clear example of that right that there's all of these objectives in her mind that she has to achieve in terms of securing the lineage for her kids and for the high towers and whatnot but at the same time it's like well she's still she still has compassion for uh for um viscera's well a general compassion too right she's the one that holds auto back with a lot of the that's exactly that's right she's uh yeah pretty much in how vigorously she expresses like her opinions relating to the upcoming crisis and stuff like her her talk with agon you are the challenge and that sort of thing it gives a lot of insight into how resentful she is of the position she's been put in yeah well and i think um like throughout the season she seems to go back and forth between gaining and losing agency like she that gains it and then sort of loses it gains it and loses it never really fully gaining a level of agency and total control over her life so in that sense that's uh pretty unfortunate for her like her circumstances are seeming i i think i'm pretty sure there's like a line explicitly right where it's like well she's the queen but what does that even matter right she's totally trapped you have a really great power struggle example with uh when viscera's still king and ranira is still on the council you have they're talking about the brackens and blackwoods fighting over they make the most insignificant issue ever it's like they've moved their their boundary for their like garden one inch or some shit it's one of the smallest things you can imagine and uh allison says like isn't there something that should be handled handled by the local like lords or whatever and then they're like oh well there's a there's a lord isn't really handling it as his son now and she's like yeah well he's still a telly so he should be handling it yeah and so it's like okay settled and then ranira's like well brackens and blackwoods you know they'll kill each other over anything so uh actually no we should we should look into this and we should find out from the locals where the line actually rests and then figure out from there they might just take garden very seriously it just comes across as like allison prescribes x and then she's like no why and it's just like just to see which one's power over does the other because one is the queen but the other one is the next in line to the throne so and uh yeah allison and her have that battle until ranira realizes her stock is so low and that everybody uh knows that her kids aren't legitimate that she leaves for dragonstone instead but doing that means the auto and allison as much as you can go cynical right like they dig their claws into the the crown to the point where they control everything but at the same time they're just trying to keep the series alive and not in pain and do have to make decisions for him it's kind of a really terrible move from ranira right leaving the capital in the hands of people who may not have her best interests at heart yeah she knows really don't have her best interests at heart yeah yeah it's but at the same time you don't blame her for not wanting to be in that environment and i think that there's actually something to compliment about it that she ends up raising her family at dragonstone and her sons are really upright sort of honorable dudes who are trying their best to prepare for their roles meanwhile allison's sort of corruption from auto right the speech she gives to agon is very similarly echoed by the speech auto gave to her yeah and uh what has it done like she has two psychopathic sons basically yep well yeah she she's failed in there to galvanize them i mean the saris failed them as well but as you said he was falling apart he had in it he had a yeah a very very pretty good obvious excuse yeah um he was he wasn't as good at spanking him as she was because um she was so focused on the broader objectives like the and and you know that specifically right the objectives here of we've got to get agon to be the next in line like that's the objective and we have to work towards that that there was like a total lack of consideration for the fact that her kids are people and that she needs to raise yeah she's yeah she needs to be present in their lives and actually sort of consider the fact that their people are not pawns to be moved around on a chess well not not just specifically people but like people being bargaining chips exactly how do you motivate a kid to who already lives in luxury and gets everything if they want essentially how do you motivate them further into starting to work on responsibilities and things it's not necessarily easy thing to do because kids are you know kids are kids well it's it's it's it's interesting to can yeah contrast them as was mentioned earlier to uh rinero's kids who i get the impression that they feel that they need to be prepared and ready and like because it's not really a guaranteed thing because of the fact that like because of uh they know because they know yes they know that and they know that and they have to work harder it's not a guarantee they have to become like really good people they need to become uh yeah in episode eight we see how dedicated jacquero is to learning how to speak hi valerian right and he's doing that because he's aware of the challenges he faces due to his parentage like he needs to work harder to feel to make people feel like he's earned his position whereas agon is like he doesn't work for anything and he's got yeah if you you know he's he's called agon he looks like i think getting him that crown the the the sword the and sworn in by the bottle like like he's got and he's a firstborn son he has all the signs of legitimacy all the like portents of a decent king whereas deseris is like he's put the work in you pair the you pair his appearance and his upbringing with just how he's he's always he's essentially a hedonist and at a young age you just you're not responsible enough to temper that or moderate that he's just you see where that leads he's essentially super duper spoiled and given so much and he he's not well you could go you know limited and much further it says that he's a horrible disgusting piece of shit right there yeah absolutely yeah he did do some rapes yeah i'm not even talking about that i'm talking about the almost encouragement and enjoyment of watching children kill each other yeah that too yeah that he's clearly not he needed a yeah he's ruined uh i think that's what they wanted to have us know at that point he's like he's a fucking lost cause he needs a serious he clearly has no self respect either i think a lot of that came from allicent demeanor towards him because allicent very much her impression of children is that they play their part because that was her thing yeah and she did do her thing he didn't know so she's passing that on to agon and it's really really unhealthy she didn't know how to take that message and tailor it to agon yeah exactly yeah and yeah as you as was mentioned like jiss aries seems to be ready to to take responsibility even to the point where war starts to break out he wants to get involved immediately and help make sure um's will is sort of taken care of while agon on the day of being coronated as king he's like leave me alone i don't want i don't want to get away hey hey all this is whole horrible don't want to feel like vaguely broken by the all the pressures of the responsibilities and stuff yeah they work yeah responsibilities are our work and they're it's a task you have to be dutiful at and you know it's a job and he's not had one of those it seems he's a total hedonist he's been getting badgered with this sort of thing from allicent since he was young as can be and it's led him to like rebel hard against it to a point where he just wants to blow it all off to do something else just hedonism it up um which kind of is well is anything else anyone allison well i i kind of wanted to talk about um her relationship with her other kids mainly helena so allison like didn't sign up for any of this like it she was just kind of forced into it by her dad um and then suddenly you know 15 years later you see her um in a scene with her crazy daughter um who is like signposted very heavily to be autistic and it's like she has no fucking clue how to interact with her daughter and like you can see it's just kind of putting in the effort but like it almost comes across as like yeah this is just how she is i'll just go through the motions and you know there's not actually listening to her i think yeah she's um god i feel i do feel bad for allison in terms of just like god it's how much of this is her fault versus just life and everyone around crafting it because like he desperately wants them all to be prepared for all the horrors that she's been told are on the way the simultaneous is like they need a mom but she's so busy trying to protect them that she's not mothering them properly and uh oh um yeah even like helena is weird with it right yeah yeah you're gonna say something else or um i would be remiss if i didn't talk about how i'm like she certainly feels resentment towards raniera because raniera can like fuck around she gets to fuck harwin father three bastards allison's been a slave to the system where like visaris owned her and like she had to raise his children she didn't really care um oh maybe she did care but she it's not what she wanted out of life we hear in episode four she talks about you know she admires the romance she she idealizes you know all that that shit she doesn't want to be married to an old disgusting dude with a body that's falling apart um but raniera gets to basically do whatever she wants and so um allison becomes very resentful towards raniera because of that when really like it's not raniera's fault that she's doing what she can in the system as well like it's just how they're both reacting to it um yeah that's a good way to describe it they react to their situations in a different way because they're different people yeah and that's a result allison like places her anger towards raniera instead of you know the system that she's now part of she gets so spicy as well as time goes on the um you keep trying to lay no sooner or later you may get one that looks like you like damn dude um i that ten year gap does uh significant changes for allison like she goes from being a puppet to being a puppeteer to a degree uh it's a really nice transition for that our introduction back to her is uh raniera immediately after child by being like summoned to uh because allison wants to see the child yeah check the hair immediately because yeah she says to have one child like that is a mistake three is an insult to honor decency and the arrangement you sought for her sort of it's like she's at a wit's fucking end that this is all happening it's absolutely insane and the series has that thing about um that like the astallion and a black bear and i i just like her response to his hypothetical is so obviously abstract and then she's just like did you see it happen did you see did you see the act that he's just like he's like stop yeah uh well we're almost at the series i suppose we're still not there yet we're building all right well i have to save the last half of this episode to talk about yeah uh yeah she's uh i think she's a really strong and interesting character and i'm curious how far she's going to go as the story yes ends up same for raniera yeah there's like because you see in her face when we have footman and he you know he does some very unsavory things and she's like oh shit like yeah she i mean this did help me but interesting comparison she's like terrified and she realizes that larris killed harwin and linel however like the next episode she's like awkward with him and then the next episode where he walks up to her and he's like you know you want an eye i understand it's like i can make that happen then she's like no no that's not necessary can you fucking chill that's not even in that scene that she's gone to the point where she's like i don't want that but i'm gonna call on you at some point like it's uh basically coming around to the idea is like at first she's like oh shocking horrifying i would never want your gosh you're just all the way over to all right yeah actually let's keep you in my pocket you're gonna be useful get shit done she says your devotion has not gone and gone and noticed uh which yeah you know the feet thing i guess that's a small price to pay to have someone who can just kill anybody for you at any point that's insane like if you to have that power over people just because just because you have feet i mean everyone has feet you could do it still wow some fear other than others right that's how it works absolutely i can't imagine if a series of great feet you know what of his feet were the like the perfect yeah there was the one part of it was really awesome yeah yeah yeah um we kind of almost fully covered egg on there so i don't know if there's anything else you could say on him may as well round him up as well yeah he's a he's a he's a right bastard a terrible person and then he gets a taste for power and it seems like he likes it oh shit yeah i really like how before then that he like clearly knows that he's a bad idea to be king like he's like that's we shouldn't do that no i think he's just he just doesn't want it it's working responsibility when he'd rather go around fucking people and watching these terrible i was aware of the fact that morning probably way better an idea because like she's been raised to rule she like from the beginning like she's taken it rather seriously since episode three or four four i think um whereas agon's never really taken it seriously he just wants to fuck around with impunity um and then yeah he gets up on that platform and the crowd cheers for him and he's like ah yeah they love you think that was um yeah look at this attention look at this do you think that's power or adoration more so i think it's mostly i i think it's like a star struck kind of thing like being on the stage in front of a whole bunch of people here at cheering i think because he's always pretty much gotten his way anyway so i'm sure he doesn't mind being able to make more things happen but he's never been in a situation where he is the focus of such a huge amount of people who are cheering him on who are you know who are he's like he feels like a rock star in that moment essentially and actually being there and hearing it and seeing it just sort of like it clicks something in his brain and he's like all right this imagine what i can do with this now it makes you worry because a person with all of his actions and history with that level of power who knows what'll happen in season two with him you know an aspect yeah go ahead for those who've seen game of thrones when joffrey gets to be king he's like most people have even seen the show are aware of joffrey being this like absolute monster and he's yeah he's like the boy king and he gets to do all kinds of horrible shit so you wonder if agon will be kind of a uh it's funny i was about to say a repeat of it but it's more so he comes before so rossel crow ran into george wrote it afterwards like it kind of is a repeat in that way well there's loads of parallels with season one of game of thrones there's so many different storylines that are kind of done again but with tweaks to the characters you mean like the the um royal family member who has three bastards and one of them is raised to be heir of the throne and then yeah no it's it's basically just the same plot elements but shuffled around a bit i think yeah because george likes to do the whole history itself sort of thing but i just think it's kind of neat as well right because like the one of the biggest scenes that was tense as all hell was when amon does his eye cut out and they all have that big old discussion yeah that was super tense it's really reminiscent of uh when turn you know joffrey got bitten by uh yeah nymeria it's it's like kind of the exact same thing and there's some yeah there's some dialogue that's even repeated over and it's just like yep there's a full similar dynamics and it's just like a prelude to how everything is going to get worse and worse until it's just there's a first blood that gets drawn i think game of thrones you could argue it's ned getting killed that makes everything definitive like we're having worn out there's no no turning back uh with this show obviously it's the death of the end there is an element of agon that i think it's almost like he's the he's the bad version of what a lot of us would likely be or want to be in the sense that you are born into an incredibly luxurious and privileged position in the world and you want to enjoy that without any sense of that the incredible stress danger and responsibility that comes with actually ruling there's an element of like like me like if i was in that world i'd want to live in the castle and have all the you know food and medical care and you access to knowledge and books and tournaments and training and teachers and stuff like that but i i don't really want to like rule a country and all the stuff and then the insane stakes that come along with that like that that's not me so egon's like or agon's like a bad version of that he's that kind of person but they only pursue selfishness and they don't care about other people and everything's just for them and they're just spoiled rotten and terrible people um do which i just came in saying please go into agon's scene after you're no son of mine i assume they're referring to when it's the only time i think that you get a little bit of humanity from him you go and get a lot throughout the show but when he's like all i've ever done is everything you've asked me and it's never enough he's like crying in front of uh allison basically i think that's just the show's way of telling us that yeah he's destroyed because uh he has goals he has interests none of them align with what his parents actually want he tries to appease them give them what they want but they're never happy and it's brought him into just all kinds of exploring different things that have led him to insane depravity basically these are the point of just saying fuck it i don't care anymore yeah uh which sits in stark contrast to the uh bastard children which i think was done on purpose right the true borns are much more worrying while the the bastards like seem like they probably make good kings george does this quite a bit when he like poses the people who fit the criteria of the system actually being way worse suited to doing to fulfilling their roles than the people who clearly don't fit the criteria like how the most noble honorable characters in the main books are like brianne who is not a knight because she's a woman and then uh like the most you know extolled knights are the worst people like gregor aimery morch that sort of and uh vibe sort of highlights the absurdity of the system itself yeah like the people who really ought to have that who who would who would take on positions of power with the responsibility necessary to to wield that power are the people who aren't going to get it instead it's going to be people who are clearly unsuited to these roles because of the rules and the customs of this world all right well that's it for agon so you got a grand old choice here we can move up to one of the other kids or you could maybe you want to yeah knock out the kids because they're sort of you know related i don't know if it's better to do the parents first or not you know like because we can knock out daemon and raniera next thing or not well what do you want to talk sorry i wonder if there's anyone more minor that we can you know scrub out quickly um oh well laner and lanor i guess those were just sort of relevant enough to merit being talked about i guess um well maybe not actually to be honest with you i think they actually just pretty vital well they they're both very vital but they're both also they don't have a huge amount of screen time there's a story to be told with both of them um the end of each of their stories is the one thing about each of them that merit's talking about yeah because it has huge implications on how the story continues obviously one of them freeing daemon to be married again and the other one freeing raniera to be married again i'm daemon one of them getting up and just wandering away well nobody seems to notice and getting burnt by vega that uh weird that whole deception there's a couple variables there that really had to uh i would have thought that even back then they'd be able to tell that that was a different body potentially you'd really have to burn the fuck out of it to make it so that there's no chance of being able to tell right um some people ask why there weren't any baby bones in her skeleton oh because she was like heavily pregnant oh yeah true that's awkward yeah i always thought it was weird that they showed us her skeleton like just yeah dragon fire should burn hang on no no dragon fire doesn't melt bone that wasn't my contention it was the okay leaving her out there so the dawn you'd think they would have yeah that's fucking weird you think they would have done something about like like picked her up she'd get out the daemon daemon watches her die right and then he's like no i just leave her there i'll clean it up in the morning because like when you're walking you're getting a drink in the middle of the night and you spill it and like ah fuck she starts like god you know the old ball and chain she starts to get up and walk out and daemon just tells her on no no no i want to see where this goes is that what happened let's hear her out yes yeah yeah yeah yeah that whole scene was confusing to me like i didn't even understand how it was in terms of like the timeline the logistics are extremely strange yeah because again how did she get out there i was baffled i i presume that that happened way later not that it was happening while daemon was having a conversation that she just managed to sneak down and get outside i'm pretty sure there's a cut scene that explains it but i'd have no idea why you would cut that well i don't know but yeah maybe they felt the ambiguity of it was the way to go it wasn't like it's definitely only hypothesize if it was like there's not a whole lot to actually be said about her though um yeah just one of those kind of you know that that's sort of tragic uh you know thing that we get in this world you know childbearing is a dangerous thing you know she this isn't how i guess i guess she saw things we get as a result they did again i was just putting in a little bit for a very minor character to imply a fairly meaningful relationship with yeah i was i was about to say that that seems to be like the main thing with that character is what does it say what does her presence in the story say about where daemon's at and how his perspectives and values have changed because it was like during that period that he became not at all involved in like the political affairs of uh of the world that he just wanted that was one of her complaints of him yeah it was one of her complaints she wanted to get more involved for the sake yeah daemon was hilarious bloodline and everything yeah daemon's like you know it's nice here we'll live on pretty well things are going great i'm not getting stabbed or you know everything like that and she's like man like there's got to be more for us than this just sitting around you know maybe it's the maybe it's that orless in her you know it's kind of come out she's good when they first made her she expresses desire for she like talks about vega she wants to uh be free but they talk about how valarians um Targaryens are imprisoned by fire but valarians are like free to roam the seas um there's a there's freedom in her blood and um that's why vega is so important to her like vega defines her life um in some way um yeah and then daemon choosing to not have her killed in service of having another child that's like definitely to contrast what viscerus does in the first episode to emma so there's a lot of things that laneer's character accomplishes and not very much screen time yeah i'd say so well is it not strange like what would be your assessment of that why when went off at the choice of you can maybe save the baby or they both die why would you ever choose not to try and save the baby because to do so you plunge a knife into a still living person he doesn't want to i guess die in that way like we saw the horror that emma went through when viscerus had that happen um feel like maybe that should have been in terms of seeing laneer make that decision that clearly because she strikes me as the kind of person if she was told either you die and your baby might live or you both die i feel like i know what she would say yeah well the interesting thing is that in both cases the decision is may is left up to the father well i don't even know hey laneer do you want to laneer seems to just against daemon's wishes walk off and get herself i mean in reference to doing a cesarean section well yeah but what i'm suggesting is just that uh it seems that laneer was on board too she made that decision too to it's not like we saw a scene where she was like no cut me open take the child they went no we refuse and then she did oh yeah it seems like she's she's fine with that too the baby dies with it i i don't know it struck me as strange feel like we needed something for that i agree but i can also understand why the show may not have wanted to touch that with a barge bowl oh you mean because of abortion allegories or something yes i guess so like that's kind of lame but i imagine that would be by the writers would have wanted to steer clear of that sort of a discussion even though the show warrants it so you can't really get around it wasn't she's young enough to have more like not if she kills herself like she's gonna live single you can't really have a child while you're dead well limitation of the human body this is a fantasy after all you know skill skill issue biology issue so what about lay nor then okay um live is so dangerous for renera yes yeah i love it i love it obviously i'm wondering if they're going to use that the thing i was curious about was sea smoke dragons don't be fine without a dead dragon rider right yep so far as we know well if the dragon believes that the writer's dead is that how does the dragon know they know i think they make that clear in the show as well like when renera is having the the sort of stillbirth they keep flashing to syrax yelling basically like they they share a significant bond in this show that and to the point where they you can't be a dragon rider unless you have valarian slash targaryen blood right yeah valerian blood um also when daemon gets hit by an arrow a caraxis cries out yeah they yeah they definitely connected on some like yeah the ritual it's more fantasy than yeah yeah so yes uh sea smoke would likely uh know that uh lay nor is not dead or does that mean for how things are going to go forth i don't know maybe maybe uh sea smoke is a little homophobic and he's just like you know what i'm kind of glad he's gone honestly uh you know that's brush cancelled i mean i guess that's the thing because i'm not i think this is probably left ambiguous intentionally but who made the call for lay nor to live i think is that renera was that daemon or was that it was lay nor's friend whose name i remember well i feel like it was an agreed upon thing between renera and lay nor like part of that conversation that kind of cut off when they were in there um in the castle they kind of on rewatch it was the uh when renera is talking about augerians and valerians and then she said valerians she says uh when she says the sea represents an escape i think she's already on board the idea that we're gonna be we're not i don't think i used to think it was the there was a plan to possibly kill him and then it would change to faking his death i think it was faking his death from the beginning i think that was always gonna be yeah that's what that was my read on it i never wanted him to die it's the implication of that's kind of one of the things they started to set up when that scene ended but their conversation you know carried forth especially considering what they were talking about in terms of you know we tried you know i you know there's a there's this element of it it's just the realization it's just not working out can we come up with something and she doesn't want him to die i i get the sense that they they liked each other but a question i have actually for i guess for gliders does westeros have any official like institution which can annul marriages um who handles that sort of thing and does that have short short answer yes but and long answer no and but um short answer yes but long answer no but as we know um if a marriage hasn't been consummated the high septum which is like the highest religious office in the realm can set it aside if he feels like it well and that's basically it that's how you do annulment divorce in westeros it's very rare okay i suppose like you can also set aside a wife with even like if you have consummated but like you have to be very powerful and have the high septum on side okay so it is handled by the the religious institution yeah but like if you're a king fuck like you can just do whatever you want you know yeah leino's story matches a lot of the characters in this being that uh he's clearly he he likes guys and he likes fighting and he wants to be on the stepstones like you know in doing that that the other but he's forced to politically just appear as the father of children that he's not actually the father of and to have married someone he doesn't really want to be with and it like and then uh you know he has to deal with that for a long time to the point where he's just drinking a lot and hanging out with people and not getting involved to the point where the rumors are spreading and getting stronger and then when his sister dies he's like a wreck and explains that like he's fucking lost doesn't really know what's happening anymore and his husband irresponsible and terrible and stuff but it you know it's not really that he's a bad guy in any way she performs he's just again chewed up by this world and forced to be an addition to the idea of how people use their time that short time sometimes on this earth and leino very much struggles with that later on into his time in the show he's right i've kind of just sat around i haven't really done much yeah i'm squandered by time on the planet and just another another son that's screwed over by all the intentions and expectations from the world and the parents yet yep because they crack that deal right him and ranira and they both seem pretty happy about it but then both of them are miserable when we move forward 10 years and they did try they did try to do with each other yeah and they did try to do sex i quite liked when he announces the baby's name is doffery and then she says the only thing i should have some say in my child's name and then he says our child and then she says i'm the only one that's bleeding and uh because i should have some affair and some inside or some control over the affairs of my family and then she says um something along the lines of like uh seems like you had no concern for your family as of late like it just tells us exactly what's going on and something you can miss which is something i didn't even pick up i think it's someone in chat let me know but like yeah joffery is the name of the the knight of kisses that died oh yeah yeah that's him like i think in the book lino wanted to name all of them after joffery but like you know they weren't gonna let that happen but then the third one they're like okay whatever yeah and uh it's like the one thing that he asserts and it's kind of like it's kind of neat because yeah that guy meant a lot to him and he got fucking murdered and by the person who the person who did it he has to see basically every day yeah um but yeah there's there's plenty going on with both laner and lino it's just they're not as um involved as some of the other characters just can't emphasize enough how dangerous dangerous it is for renera that he's still alive oh yes maybe they'll do something with that who knows i hope they do yeah i feel like we have to at this point i really like how i'm not sure that they will lino running away with karl kori at the end of episode seven like they go off to esos to have their own life to be free to do whatever they want to be gay and do crime um that is what christin cole wanted to promise renera yeah so renera gives that to lino who she says that she loves like you know he's the best person she knows that's what she says and like she gives that to him and then that's cute as don't you think well sure but i mean i wouldn't want to assuage the uh the fact that this is all also benefiting the fuck out of her she gets everything she wants oh yeah she gets to marry uncle daddy yeah your blood but that is none of that none of that mud blood um all right so who shall we target next i feel like well uh we've got we kind of helena's not much else to say about she's she can see into the future vaguely right and she's kind of nuts she does have some of that foresight and yeah and she's crazy um all right there we go nailed it she's not much in the show at all that's that's all she likes but um well i feel like it makes more sense to talk about amon dandelus aries uh after we've done uh renera daemon and probably the series because those two have the last scene of the show almost don't they those two so do you want let's why not renera and then daemon let's say oh hey gary oh my goodness that's a happen yeah hello can you hear me oh god yes yeah we can told you he'd be here eventually like i was about to say batman but no gandalf that makes most sense yeah bat gulf bat gulf gan man gulf sorry bat dolphin gan man we've been we've been going character by character do you know who we have left and we're about to talk about is beserries and daemon yes there's like the people you could have bumped into is like well that works out funnily enough who's after that will be a man we haven't talked about any of those three and i'm pretty sure they like your three favorites oh easily uh i mean mostly because they're white males that's uh that's not it yeah even the hair yeah it checks out practically albino actually albino yeah i just don't want to break any narratives on the internet or anything well uh i'm sorry i'm late i love this show let's talk about something fun sure uh so renera we kind of just like sort of summarizing the character jr i got a helpful little graphic on screen that lets everybody know exactly how everything works it's so well made by me of course um but it's mainly for people who i can't remember who everyone is because there's lots of cat lots of lots of time jumps too um rather hard to keep track of sometimes but anyway renera what kind of characters do we get here funnily enough when i was first watching the show she uh she kind of made a not a great first impression i'm excited about the impression that she um he wanted to be respected and given what she wants but not put in much of the work to do so uh she seemed a little bit entitled but one thing i had respect for the show was every time she brought this up be it in front of christen kolo allison or whoever else they would throw shit back at it be like yes it was so hard for you isn't it it's such a hard life you live nobody else has to deal with anything difficult then she's like yeah but they don't know what the life i live just like i mean i think yeah the show recognizing that granted all of those things you're probably true but consider that you want an in your position in this world you live in the castle and you have all of these you know don't forget that don't lose your sense of perspective i suppose right uh i know things are hard for you don't get everything you want but you're not covered in shit every day yeah so you're you're not starving and ridden with disease and living in the dirt and bring your back every day to you know support your family like a lot of people are you know i agree she ends up going through a lot more difficulties but at the point of her first saying that she's she's in a pretty stellar position like there's everything ahead of her sort of thing meanwhile people around her already suffering a lot more and she's sort of just figuring out what do i get to have but of course i think she gets like that i think part of what they did in this season was kind of making a balancing act between her and allison you don't necessarily spot it in the first few episodes but it's going to be that they those two are going to represent the two sides they're like almost the most significant oars of both sides while everyone else is around them as advisors or influence of some kind and it's like which one do you think is worse and the scale can sometimes tip in different directions depending on what kind of thing you're assessing because i um i had quite an issue to take with her when she did what she did with uh christin colx i was like she should know better than most though what she's doing with him can get him killed um significant and then of course having kids with harwin strong i thought it was kind of a nept of the internet to be like how neat that she's having kids with one she loves and she's letting her husband who is gay you know what he wants it's like having she's idyllic of you those children are fucked they're like absolutely ruined as anyone finds out they're all dead like what how is that good how is that something that's anyone's allowed to yeah they're indulging in who she wants to sleep with is gonna destroy everything like especially because it is so obvious that there is no ambiguity here yeah they didn't do a good job of covering it up like i mean you can trace the issue back further and say it's not her fault that they married her to a gay man um that's fine well so this is the problem right a lot of people would point that out and be like so they're like absolved it's like yeah but this is the horrible will during the cards your doubt and there's still decisions for you to make and if you make that decision yeah she was still allowed to pick out of uh yeah i mean not everybody but she was she had her chance and she blew it yeah she had was it 20 suitors she could have yeah they tried they tried to work with her and she she was just too billful you know and uh yeah paid the price yeah and they thought that could work out like i'm sure in her mind when they were walking on the beach she's like he'll not he'll not just once i mean come on i'm kind of hot and uh he didn't because he's super he was that gay that's how gay he was like the gay he couldn't ejaculate inside of that damn you gay um you gay you gay okay i got news for you yeah like the lad drill with the ring he's like i've passed the test was saying later but like i go from almost ideal like to actually it's just before the episode ends too right because you were saying about that beach walk they they agree and they're like yeah this is great and then they're marriage they're dancing and they're happy the guy gets killed and then they're being married with him like still had a bloody nose and she's just like i think she's even starting to cry like it's one of the most awful weddings ever did the background there's a rat feeding on the blood of the guy he loves rat like there was scuffed wedding ever this is like yeah it's representative of how this is not going to be great supposed to be a happy occasion yeah when it leads to all the the issues yeah so yeah i i took a lot of issue with her at that point and i was not quite a fan of her i i think the character was really strong it's just that i didn't like her myself but then and i think this is deliberate the second half of the season she's kind of a really good person she's only ever trying to move things in a way that there's just more peace defend the claim that her father gave her and to raise her children right over her kids yeah she really cares about her kids what happened is that her interest in the line of succession becoming the queen was uh shallower and that the older that she got and the more that she understood the nature of this world and the obligations and how to maneuver through it that the older she got the more she began to appreciate the responsibility that had been entrusted with her by Viserys that that is her arc essentially yeah growing up becoming more responsible and so the result is that you have like this really great arc for that character like she's a really strong character no i think yes i think she's excellent and i quite i'm quite ready for her to do lots of things by the time you hit the end of the show like you have to respect a lot of decisions she makes are quite peace ready but uh wait was that was that disapproval noises you go ahead oh no no not disapproval just um oh for what's to come i know i got lost from gary he's he's read the book as well but no book spoilers right it's just like when you speak about being excited about all the things Renea is gonna do i i hope i said i'm ready for her to take action all right that does not include horrible horrible horrible evil no no no i'm not like doing a moral judgment on what she does it's about the amount of things she actually does in the book which a lot of people are kind of disappointed by i hope they play up her role in the show they're gonna have to yeah on the on they're on you guys have your own podcast talk about that shit okay yeah it's funny to me it's like you'll speculate on how much he's gonna be involved it's like you're already spoiling things well yeah we don't read books we watch the moving pictures yeah all right not sorry at all wow we'll talk about something in the show that was like really developed uh the book like way better was uh that that transition from uh you know young rebellious Renea to adult Renea you don't really get that in the book at all show does that a million times better i think uh and that's our purpose too because the book's just informational it's just a dumb history that doesn't even count so oh so as i understand the book is is presented as the accounts of people who are not necessarily reliable right yeah three unreliable narrators yeah and i get you like with all the complaints if i was just like you didn't have to do it that way why did you do it that way and then they don't do it that way for the show because they know that if they had the format be three dudes and like each episode starts with one of the dudes and like a place be like let me tell you this to chapter one then some other guys like let me tell you chapter it's like people be like what the fuck is that shit framing device that last guy was crazy here's what really happened terrible uh so this is supposed to be the definitive history the only thing i miss is mushroom the character of mushroom i wish he was in it hope they bring him in season two he's in it you see him once or something right like he's hitting a drum or something but yeah look at him go look at him go um town town yeah that uh that about sums her up she's gradually she gets the point of being much more responsible and reasonable and um i quite like the scene she shares with the series before he uh goes to the throne room where she basically says like he's not even a hundred percent on board with the idea that she should have been queen but the fact that he made her queen and simultaneously isn't helping her defend that claim is is destroying her and that pleaded like really good scene in terms of acting and stuff but it gets through to him like she needs his help sort of thing because everyone's coming to destroy her and the fact that you can't help but feel bad right because at the same time as me condemning her if i having chosen to do what she did because it puts her children in like target zone once that's happened and it is there but these are good people they're good children she's just trying to defend the claim and that everyone could just get along and move on you kind of feel bad like when uh when veyman is ripping into them for being of not pure blood and you see their faces they're like almost terrified of him it's like so unfair these kids are just good people they don't deserve this but they didn't choose how they were bored those and that's that's the result they piss off everybody this might be a bit of a tangent but i just want to talk a little bit about how crazy the internet is like i spend a lot of time on house of the dragon twitter and there are people who this show has reduced into talking like medieval peasants but like like there are people saying yeah no they're not even modern peasants matter that their opinions that their lives are forfeit they should be treated like dirt because they are born out of wedlock it's like what the fuck is wrong with people nobody can trust the bastard best part is that isn't even in terms of succession or at least in terms of kingship that doesn't matter a huge amount because they still have targaryen blood which is the blood they can be legitimized you know what happened they bought established titles they thought they were a lord uh and they started now they know and now they're not you know if it was a hypothetical world where it was laner with some like lobal and women or what have you that would be a problem but it's still raniera's blood being passed down so we don't have so much of an issue more of an issue when it comes to driftmark oh yeah big issue was driftmark but for the crown less so less so but still something that can be pushed and because of how obscenely overt is it's still a problem yes quite a quintessential elephant in the room one of the other things that's kind of mentioned in the books and like slightly brought up in the show is the whole well it's actually brought up a lot the whole thought of pure valerian blood like it doesn't exist the whole opening of the show shows the blood spit like splitting up into multiple facets and uh when valerian is sitting there going pure valerian bloods wait a minute yeah it's like there is no pure valerian blood you just need some you need a drop there's something about it as long as it's in there well the opening credits show the descent from agon and his sisters right yeah and that was like purely incestuous until viscerus married emma aron whose father was broderick aron who's not valerian and that's really the entrance of non valerian blood into the targaryen family tree well and kind of reflecting what um callus said right because it's ultimately if we can just get away with it the blood's not going to fucking matter what's enough time passes people will just claim that they remember names yeah but uh yeah that's the problem isn't rene's mother a baratheon yeah that's right but baratheons of valerians i mean really the moral of the story is that the closer your family tree looks to a telephone pole the better yeah of course yeah surely this will be yeah um baratheon was a valerian was a targaryen bastard oh okay so he's probably half not valerian so yeah true um should we talk about daemon shall we talk about daemon so i'm i'm keen on talking about daemon personally when i was doing my rewatch uh i had a niggling thought in the back of my head where i was like i wonder how much daemon i was that was set up for both of you to say that and it worked i was so happy that i got it uh so the the thought i was having was i wonder how much of him is that he's really well characterized and how much of it is the amazing performance from matt smith i was happy to find out that it's both it's good because boy what a what a stellar performance hot on the cell how hard he just kills it yeah every very very good he's he he makes this character he just he he just makes this character i don't know the character would just not work if you didn't have this of all the characters in this show having someone who has daemon's personality and his his mannerisms and stuff you got to nail the acting for it or else it just won't sell because it's him more than a lot of people it's more than just glances and talking and you know the more subtle things it's he really has to have the sense of like kind of menace about him what that that can be subtle one thing that's kind of interesting as well is that there's a lot of characters where you'll be like and we didn't expect that you know we didn't know that this person could pull that off sort of thing we're going to be saying that very soon about someone else but this one was what was like oh he's probably going to be the best of the uh the showed it's like well he was really good so yeah like it nobody was surprised that matt smith pulled this off really because he's just that good if obviously my experience with him was mainly doctor who um but seen enough of him in that but i assume some people might be like it's the morbius guy which i feel so bad about like something where somebody went up and said it's a morban time when they were meant to ask questions about house of the dragon yeah it was it was this some kind of interview video where they're talking about like fans of morbius and like really into something they say it's morbentime and then did matt smith say something like are you sure they're fans like there's an article here on uh indie wire from august of this year it's that matt smith is like more he said morbius flop doesn't bother him oh yeah well i guess not right right on to this well yeah yeah absolutely this was a role the i was about to say needed to happen he already proven himself but this is definitely a role that it's like it helps uh focus his power as an actor in terms of just like there you go this is yeah this seems like this is the craft of acting and morbius is a paycheck yes 100% it's kind of like the guy who did the music for ragnarok and rings of power it's not fair that those two things the things he did i don't understand oh how does one of them was the passion project the other was the paycheck one for me one for them as they say anyway he chose yeah yeah well he's good he was very good at val star galactica and uh needed a paycheck for rings of power this is the thing man like i feel like he's he was capable of way more rings of power is like he walked it in sort of thing i don't know what's going on there because there was only like two tracks that if i stood out to me as with being like oh that's music the rest of it sort of just faded into the background wait so i haven't watched rings of power yet are you telling me the soundtrack is like yeah it's extremely unmemorable oh no no all right what the fuck well it's not like god of war ragnarok and like phenomenal holy it is a night and day difference it's so well i mean i feel like it's gotta be indicative of the fact that in god of war there's like something that you can latch on to to really do some cool musical um something that i actually read was that um oh wait no it's we we're talking about house of the dragon i don't want to i don't want to be getting next week next week next week yeah it's a really great soundtrack and by comparison rings of power is just like it's not bad it's just like it didn't it didn't get in the way it's just the i didn't notice it was there really um what do you think of the soundtrack of this show i really like yeah like when uh when viscerus enters the throne room oh yeah that's a favorite yeah no i love it i can't wait for it to come out i haven't seen a release it's like a fucking theme renairis theme renairis theme is good it's it's really versatile it's very good i tend to like kind of like in god of war how the main thing is super versatile well i'm just i'm just saying it's kind of like that because her theme adds to a different rendition with the same like court motif and it's like applicable in these quiet moments and then these much grander moments as well like it's super robust yes um yeah easily have made a mix of that into the show's title theme uh well so why don't you expand on that thought there why because you said that you don't like that they don't have their own theme song you just used to game a throne's one again i don't know well before anyone says like if you why do you what was the benefit of doing that if any is there a benefit the benefit of using the game of thrones one again i guess to connect it to game of thrones but is that something you want at this point well it's also tried and tested like everyone knows that it's yeah i want to play well like it's a good piece of music i want to point it out that there's probably good reason for them to have decided on it they probably thought about doing their own theme then they're like yes but they didn't they've said that they didn't oh like they decided very early on that they would be using this theme again i well so funnily enough i actually said along they should have had their own theme i think the show deserves its own identity yeah then it does i agree uh the idea of it being like there is material in the soundtrack that would have made for a great opening great scene and they just didn't do it um yeah exactly a music pun but i just don't feel it fits tonally that well well i have a bachelor's degree in music composition and i can tell you that you're under a master's oh my god not a master's no you don't even know how to analyze the tally tubby's theme can you even play the glockenspiel yes good yeah get or get rekt rags why why why me rekt i'm i'm rags was annihilated i'm glad i'm glad that he can play the glockenspiel he didn't know how to play it no i'm gonna teach you i was setting no i was setting him up for success running rags i'm doing the opposite of running away i'm standing my ground in how supportive i was of him running away though anyway damon anyway nailed that so moving on you did nail that glide this rags is right absolutely i smack that as one does to many instruments like a glockenspiel or perhaps a triangle or a gong or perhaps a walk that's been turned upside down damon is what i would probably call chaotic prideful cunning reckless passionately loves his family like old valeria and eriously overcompensates for what he believes in to be right like he'll he'll make some really impulsive decisions if he believes something is happening i think most accentuated in what i quite love is when he's informed that the series is dead he says how did he die he doesn't get an answer it's not that she's ignoring him she just hasn't answered that yet and then he just jumps immediately to he's been slain and then he jumps to allison killed him like it's you know thinking about that list of traits that you gave there for like damon is a character that could easily have been fumbled yeah like that you could have easily turned him into a confused mass but it's like this delicate balance of all of these seemingly disparate traits um like never never coming at the expense of the other or never feeling like they contradict like that would have been really tough to write and really tough to perform and the fact that it works so well was a testament to both aspects both the writing and matt spitz performance he uh his earlier time in the episodes he's uh more so just sort of thinking about what it is he's even around for what does he want to do with his life it seems like through uh impulse he gets himself banned twice and then uh he's already been married to uh someone in the the veil so it's just like a little bit of trapped sort of nature kills her and then goes for a lana and then uh when we see him 10 years later it really feels like he's settled down in terms of he's not as crazy anymore yeah that's chaotic seems to have chilled really love the small part of his conversation with lana where they both both go through like this isn't really what they wanted out of life but they've made do in a way that they're yeah this will do uh yeah yeah he says he's a place you know we're you know doing pretty well well and she says like he claims he likes to be in pentos where she says like you never like look around in pentos you never go around you never do anything here you just read about histories and he says um we're we're free to do whatever we want we're without responsibility political scheming endless shifting of loyalties and succession none of it is ours it's like he misses the chaos wants to i mean if you get the impression that he's just that's that's his element yeah there's chaos yeah he wants to be i mean probably closer to the seris almost certainly that too um and you know rinera but yeah it's it's that's his arena you know what he's told even when he's in pentos you can kind of tell and these are the subtleties of acting not to protect pretending to where like he needed to find that out for himself like no this is this is great on paper we're all taken care of here boring as shit i can't handle it that's that was the reality that was never going to work out no matter what even if she survived so uh that was i thought that was really cool how she's the one who was trying to egg him on to leave if anything she survived it would have happened sooner maybe uh yeah when he's told that uh rinera had another kid that he says uh did your brother mentioned whether there was a market but also entirely coincidental resemblance to the commander of the city watch it's just so well known that it's a joke uh which is helpful in terms of moving along like the wheel building of everyone becoming more and more aware because everyone's just joking about it but it's a serious thing as soon as everyone agrees on it yeah and it's one of those things where you see it again you read it and you know it depends on the reader obviously but uh it was never presented as wow it would they said it was pretty obvious but you still there could be some question because rainies supposed to have dark hair because it was beratheon but like in the show it is the emperor has no clothes that's it yeah we're just gonna pretend this thing is we're talking about the scene with like it's the same amount of tension after the eye is taken but when uh aim and is asked who told him these awful lies and he looks at his mum but then moves it to agon and then agon doesn't blame anyone he just says we all know everyone knows yeah agon's got that dead pan thousand yards agon to me in that moment is like why are we pretending this is stupid everybody knows the truth this pointless but obviously the the reality is and the series knows like yeah we have to keep pretending otherwise people start dying including you yeah yeah i don't know if you've said it enough his mom told him a bunch of times like uh you're gonna die if this does if this whole ruse falls apart somebody's gonna die i think to accentuate uh how awesome daemon is as a character not necessarily as a person he's probably kind of a bad person but uh the the way that he talks and manipulates conversations and just moves his way through the world after he's killed uh the the roice girl i forget her name the bronze bridge rare um his cousin i think comes to uh to daemon he's like in the veil men are made to answer for their crimes even Targaryen's his response is just who are you just like undercuts out straight away and then he's like i am so gerald roice of rude stone which is enough to imply why he might be saying this that he just goes and because i'm uh like oh yes terrible thing i'm positively bereft such a tragic accident that's like how he delivers his p.o.v from his wife dying and then he's like you know better than anyone it was no accident and his response is um are you confessing some guilt sir gerald like just talking with him is so awesome um he's like i'm making an accusation he says in king's landing better made to answer for this slander's even old broad's cuts like you and by the way uh Lytle's watching this whole conversation and he just looks stressed he's just like he's like oh please don't please don't do this to me he's so wonderfully good at fucking his people you see it just even an episode one with auto yeah it's a rise out of auto which is pretty impressive well yeah right and you get that pretty consistently throughout the whole season the acting is really consistent and solid he's always in control even when he's out of control he's in control like like his whole element is being out of control he loves watching people scream um even when visceri's is beating him and telling him he's about to expel him uh what he's like please tell me what i'm being accused of so that i could properly uh deny it like yeah it's just like a really fun light he's just drug good to hug over whatever but the one time you see him really rattled properly is when he's trying to appeal to his brother to help him with what's happening with the succession while his brother is just you know ruined in the bed like like in pain uh when he was visiting with ronira yeah it's it's a testament to mass performance he's struggling to get words out he can't bring in yeah visceris with him yeah he keeps like little visceris here looking at him and then looking away looking at him looking away like he can't bear to look at him for too long because yeah you don't want to you don't want to see you don't want to see people you care about look like that no people understand people learn that about themselves as time progresses you don't want to see your family members you know deteriorate and so you have all of that and you have the line from episode one where he's like you should have made me hand i would protect you and he says from what from yourself obviously referring to the fact that visceris makes choices that puts himself in danger and gives people power that he shouldn't like daemon and i genuinely believe that i don't think daemon actually would have tried to take the throne from him at all i think he would have been happy uh being by his side that's all he really wanted he wants a strong targaryen house that's his main goal and uh yeah you see that then culminating when he he helps him to his throne and gives him back his crown it's just like that shit is powerful with all of the other yep heard that was ad-libbed that was not uh the the crown falling apparently was um not intentional it just happened as they were doing the acting and they just carried right along well i imagine that they would have reset it probably was an idea that they came up with well filming but uh they would have to get the shot into it a bit further apparently it happened during a rehearsal and everyone was like oh yeah yeah that's way better let's do that ah nice all improvisation yeah i'm happy to consider that yeah yeah it's one of my favorite moments in the show like one of this yeah it's so nice that visceris gets that he gets that but i guess we can talk about that a bit more later almost there now the other thing i was going to say about daemon was just uh in the the last few episodes you really get a sense of he's now like fully active as a participant in this game he's less an agent of chaos looking just for stuff to do now he's got a particular role particular goal and it's going to be the survival of his house and his bloodline that's what's on the line and uh i really like it's such an interesting element of the character that um he's told about the nature of ranira's rule and she's like you know it's it's way more important than just all the things that are going on when you consider a song of ice and fire and he looks at it like what and then yeah and then she like gives a bit more information he just he cuts her off with strangling her and he's like this fucking bullshit that would have like it visceris and all of his nonsense like we've got real shit happening i don't want to hear about dreams and prophecies but then she undercuts that with saying like he never told you about it he never trusted you enough to actually give you the information that was passed on down yeah all the rulers he would feel betrayed yeah and so that that gives you the sense that he's not just informed by finding it nonsense but also that his brother never gave him this information there is so much going on with daemon targaryen and he's played by such an amazing actor that i can't wait to see whatever what else they do with him i'm very excited to um see what i assume will be season three but the whole thing i'm so excited to see um the things written about daemon happened on screen with matt smith thanks for confirming he's gonna survive season two probably wow spoiler yeah a lot a little guys oh yeah here's what happens uh everybody everybody lives it's happy ever this one the war actually ends at the start of episode season two the rest of the show is about something else completely it turns out when they got bit down on the dragon it reassembled itself as it was falling down and the kid was fine he just got a bit lost all good cool allison and renara make up they find the men of their dreams uh daemon lives everybody's happy there's tons of dragons the i thought they married each other oh oh it's everybody gets married everyone mandatory yeah if everyone marries everyone else and everyone's happy because everyone has all the power right yep and they share the power and everyone has strong alliances with everyone we share yes there's a healthy democracy springs free and everyone's just full of happiness and kindness and wonderful because like we know from game of thrones that like the world ends up in a particular way true but let's not you don't need to think about it i won't mention any specifics yes um which leads us to the man of the hour mr king king boy king viscari is are we are we doing anyone else who isn't listed here before we do him yeah i want to do the uh i want to do amon and lucerius after him and reines yeah we can do them three after him okay our little epilogue sort of sort of yeah because he's he's the main he's the big boy he he's the reason to see this show i would say uh as much as i had a lot to compliment about everyone else his story is complete it is incredibly meaningful it's performed almost perfectly i don't understand how he could have really done any better they put so much work into making sure you understand the entire journey from start to finish this uh man is it fucking potent and there's so much work that goes into it uh where to begin who is viscari as a person i think most people just summarize it as he's a good man he's just a goofy little guy that's how he comes off at first he's just this affable kind of easily swayed maybe but he's just as he's just this cool guy he's a chill king who just wants things to remain chill he inherited a notoriously peaceful kingdom and has had that weight on his shoulders the whole time it turns out like i wouldn't want to make it so that it stops being peaceful but simultaneously i don't want to be forgotten i want to be a king that made a difference i want to be a king that that mattered that's the most that's the strongest part of the character in my eyes is how you can really feel the weight of his place in history on his shoulders in everything he says everything he does the way he carries himself in every scene he's really really concerned with what he will be and what his what he will do for the future with his uh uh agon stream and all of that as well and he uh is is is very obsessed and fully believes in the uh the the the scariness of the north is coming the the long winter the song of ice and fire is 100 going to happen and he used to facilitate it and then you combo that with a vision he had of putting his own son named agon on the throne after him like he needs to make that happen a lot of his decisions are based on believing that that's something he has to facilitate and so he almost feels like a failure when he's not getting the ears he needs and then that in turn leads to emma dying and he feels nothing but pain and regret for the rest of his life over that because he loves him more than anyone yeah it's uh he's looking at that ring and that's what that is has said that like that's when he considers viscerus to have died like everything else after that point viscerus is just like a husk he's not even really there i think that makes sense especially with the last set of lines he's getting when he's super old like i said he remembers raneira being his only child he talks to emma that was that was where he was enjoying life everything else was done politically and for the sake of maintaining peace which oh god when when he's being lifted up from the table because he's getting too much pain again uh this the oh well actually we'll get to that in a second the first thing i want to say is in the throne room when he's lifted up uh because he's he's in pain and alice is holding him just says like you need to take it back to your room he says no no no no i have to i have to i have to set things right like he of the stads as well as i think the audience does especially in retrospect he was like the only thing keeping everything together as soon as he's gone it all falls apart which is really interesting to contrast with not only everyone in universe's perspective of his rule but everyone out of universe everybody on fucking twitter are discussing this is like he's one of the worst kings ever i was just like i don't know what the fuck it's uh you have everyone saying he's ineffective he doesn't make decisions fast enough he always like wonders what the hell he's supposed to do he lets people who are evil like have lots of power he's like one of the worst kings ever and i was just like i i i don't know the like look at all these characters who exactly is the superior person to be king than him right now maybe leidl probably like it but lord bezbury lord king bezbury chadsbury for him in charge um the thing is i actually think if you really pay attention to everything he does and says in all these different episodes uh there's so much more going on in his brain than a lot of people realize like on the surface right you have um you have daemon saying it was never a strong suit being king you have uh like like auto saying that um uh oh no i think it was auto's brother or something he's like you have to i think it was auto said you have to guide for series toward reason because he's never gonna find it on his own which is just like damn okay um you have the when they're gossiping like episode three they say that uh the crown is at war and your father refuses to admit it everyone has like cynical views of why certain things are decided but like the series is aware of all of these things he doesn't like there's reasons why he makes the decisions he does and he's on the way that he constructs his like advisory council it wasn't it wasn't like cringe and corrupted before he lost influence over it like uh it was obviously stacked by auto eventually but at first like him switching auto out for linel was an incredibly good decision the idea that the hapless king is absurd yeah he's way more actively realized he knew what was the fact that everything even stayed together and hung together considering like because i mean we talked about it earlier when he was like oh you know i don't feel like i've been tested he was tested he was very much tested he didn't have an easy go of it at all like he had a lot of difficult situations he had to maneuver through and the reality is that when it came to him he maneuvered through those situations as best he could in accordance with the things that he valued and that makes him a bad king you know i know he was he was a good king like he's a good you know honor honor like he had honor and he kept yeah the fact he held things together for that long and you know to the point where you you know he's a good king when you're like fearful for when he dies yeah because you know that everything's going to fall apart more than likely do you feel the same way about robert because things immediately fell apart when he died oh so i'm going back to the dragons bro i actually think it's worth talking about but maybe not in this stream but just yeah i actually think it is worth saying that robert wasn't as i think when you're in peace times it's kind of like the thing of when you don't have real problems your your lesser problems become significant and it's like robert could be so much better if he did this this this he's terrible it's like i don't think you realize the scale we're dealing with here like terrible kings i don't think you understand like robert is not a terrible king he's he's a he's fine to the point where robert didn't care to make important decisions so if it's really down to the council he surrounds himself with and unfortunately his was filled with like corrupt assholes they're all trying to yeah it's it's meanwhile someone like um i mean that's what they were trying to go for in this in season eight finale right the all the right people who are in the uh council that point and the brand is a king but take the idea not the actual like i know take the idea not the example uh but you you have yeah like the best king maybe someone it could have been like a um a tommen but he's he's got all of these like advisors who are actually good willed and integrity driven people um and yeah it's always been going to be a complicated bouncing act but even robert when he's like going to assassinate denaris everyone looks back at that after season eight is like so he was right that everything would have been fine if he'd done that you know a ned is like what a horrible decision it was in the wrong there that's funny yeah well i mean we didn't know what was gonna happen okay so uh in retrospect but yeah um even in the first episodes some of the first lines uh visceris is like my son will be born and the whole realm is going to celebrate and then the maester is like we have no way of predicting the sex of the child and then visceris says um of course and no maester is no maester is capable of rendering an opinion free of conditions now are they like that's him admitting immediately that he already knows that like there's a bunch of shit going on with the the perspective people provide yeah he's so witty and um tactful and aware but people people often claim he's not and that's the thing it's like if you listen to what he says and what he does it's pretty clear and someone i noticed on the rewatch i mentioned this to fringy yesterday it's kind of neat to hear him say but uh they you have the baratheon guy say you know can i have the favor of the queen who never was the reynice and um auto is like you know you could have his tongue out for that and then visceris says uh tongues aren't going to change the succession let them wag which is like man you're going to change your mind on that one as soon as we go a little further and i think it's because of the fact that wagging your tongue about that succession really doesn't change anything but it will if you do it enough about uh reynia reynira's children see um i was keeping track of the times he actually did threaten to have people's tongues out and um it basically is always concerning reynira's succession like um the first time he actually threatens to have someone's tongue out is when dame when he has daemon on the floor of the throne room after he's been accused of f**king reynira and is so that's it's about his love for reynira and um you know i guess from a more cynical point of view you could say it's like the security of his succession doesn't he wait i think doesn't he threaten him in episode one um daemon's oh yeah i think he says like it's a similar idea you'll refer to me as your grace or i'll have my men cut your tongue out i think that's right yeah okay so it's actually probably more to do with emma then because that was in response to daemon saying the air for a day thing about you know his son that really triggered him which is fair enough i think uh but yeah you're right like triggering the legs he's uh he's very uh protective of those sorts of he'll always he's like a super peacekeeper for the second there's like a threat to his immediate family he gets incredibly aggressive yeah that's the part of his family he cares about yeah um like uh when when uh the the lannister says you know reynira is obviously not going to be queen it's going to be your firstborn then he's like like what what are you you know like why would i change my air and then he implies that like some some bannerman have talked about it and then he immediately is like it's your sworn duty to report rebellion in my kingdom and he's just like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa we were just having a chill with no no rebellion no no i was like it he misunderstood how like like vissaries won't entertain it being commonly understood that yeah something like that would happen um that's what i mean that he's not spineless in any way shape or form he's uh he's just he's got an idea of how to maintain peace and if anyone steps out of that he'll annihilate them and uh that's tested with veimand and he comes through immediately it's not like he punished daemon for chopping his head off did he yep there we go that's what you get that all that's sorted out that's fixed the problem um and yeah the uh how he fires auto i think is one of the bigger examples of how much he's aware where people maybe not have realized um and i i quite love that whole sequence because it's uh him putting together a lot of what he probably should have thought about before right he opens with saying five days you're like uh he says his uh his dad was hand of the king and then he and he was like a peak of his health and then five days later he died of a burst belly meaning poison right that's i think that's the implication that's the implication we never find out and he says like yes uh yeah i think auto says i recall it all too well it was a grim day and he says it was a good day for you you were made hand went from being just a man in like the room to being the most second most powerful man in the entire kingdom and uh and he says allison was a calculated distraction and he now realize how calculated it was and so yeah him putting together the allison was obviously moved in place to benefit auto and then auto fucking with raniera in order to move his blood into the uh alignment makes it like convinces the series that he's always going to put himself before his king and then he's like oh shit did you kill my dad like and as soon as that's even a thought it's like auto's done yep and that's why so so well put together that the reason he comes back is because linel dies and at this point allison is in more control of of you know the dealings than the series is so auto is hand again the implication there is even bigger because um bail on dying vissaris's dad dying that's what sparks the succession crisis we see at the very beginning of the show right where rainies is spurned so that's like saying that auto is responsible for two separate succession crises well um you know is it is there any more information to believe that auto actually did have a hand in the death of vissaris's father is there any reason to believe it beyond the accusation well yeah it's basically just what vissaris says and that's it because that's the trouble with uh with the game of thrones universe is sometimes it makes so much sense for a person to have done a thing it's like look how much you benefit it just like it turns out they had nothing to do with it yeah and well that means like um when ned thinks that cersei killed john aron right yeah like it makes a complete sense and she didn't do it yeah sometimes you just get a break yeah well that's that's the thing george says that could be frustrating or or good depending on how you like it maybe we'll get an answer later but i think it's very likely he was killed but not by auto there's a grand maester conspiracies yeah okay yeah fair enough oh that's yeah that's what mentioning is like the earlier episodes the grand maester is so clearly in line with auto they're totally like besties yep well they're you know high towers well yeah that's the thing you start to connect the the voice of old town is the high towers who are next to the grand maester well the maester um yeah so should we talk about that scene then i think we should talk about that scene you know basically the series is worn down to almost being a skeleton man and he's hanging on for dear life he's he's on all kinds of painkillers and auto and that's allotment of basically taking over everything and the drift mark succession is coming up and the problem with it is bayman is going to be very passionately pointing out that he deserves to inherit drift mark but the problem is if he does it delegitimizes the kids and thus delegitimizes like renier's whole line um and so if that basically it's this big old knock-on effect and it's just a clever way to to bribe a thorn into the side of a lot of the concerns people have over this succession and before the day happens the implication of course is the auto and alison will be deciding and we already know exactly what they want so it's all for show really but renier pleads to um the series the night before he under he understands more of what's going on than i think people realize at that point as well they think he's kind of out of his mind but he's picking up all of it and uh the next morning i think he refuses milk of the poppy and um as the proceedings are proceeding he makes his way into the throne room and walks from one side of it to the other and it's considered the best moment of the whole series by basically everybody who's seen it yep it's my top tier moment it is uh walking across a room that's what good writing does a guy walking across a room to sit in a chair and is the crowning moment of a whole series of television i know they did some really cool battles and the dragons were whooping around and stuff but did you see that guy walk across a room dude he walked like all the way across like from one side to the other yo and he's got a cane when he went up those stairs too oh i lost my fucking mind when he got to the stairs i actually did though like i'm not even joking i mean it doesn't make me cry much this did like it's uh it's pretty powerful and incredible it's a representation of strength that you basically never see in media it's a very rare form um he came through for his family in a way that is so incredibly important and difficult for him and represents everything that his character is is built toward he's he's the and you get the reactions from everyone auto has a level of like fear as well as just being like well we're fucked because this is happening now allison is like surprised but also looking kind of distraught like what does this even mean um daemon and ranira like they're all going to be impressed reines is one of the interesting ones even though i don't like it being like he's like looking down and consumed in the sense of uh i think the takeaway from that is good god look what being the monarch did look like how much he's his life is just a disaster and it's this horrors like i wonder what have happened if i really maybe reines is thinking about what that would have done to her if she was saying um it's yeah i wonder if she's starting to think about what's going on here with allison and auto as well there's some realization there yeah because she makes after a real public showing of the state of the series which is probably kept away from most people um even i think in episode one when the wound on the back of the series happens auto says no one is to know about this like so yeah they're gonna want to keep it a secret as possible because the whole thing of like if you keep the image of him empowering in charge but make all the decisions on his behalf then you have complete control essentially um yeah and he gets to the steps drops the crown and daemon picks it up for him and then he basically just lays everything out as straightforward as possible they're legitimate move the fuck on he's like hey i thought we worked this out yeah it's gotta settle two sessions that was almost a surprise to me was that he said something i didn't even necessarily think about he was like the only person who would have insight into this more so than what we already had would be radice because she's like gonna have the most updated information of call is and what's cool is all the other characters saw her as a sort of she's a wild card but she's not in control of anything and then she's given full control essentially yeah that's cool and yeah she sides with uh the the blacks and takes the offer of marrying the two the two sons which is interesting because in that moment that offer was uh really great and it helps them get that going but then later on with uh boris beratheon they they can't offer anything in terms of marriage i'm not entirely sure why you would marry both of your story i assumed that was over compensation yeah just being like because renea is desperate in that scene she's like it's trying to sweeten the part like both of them i guess you know people die and it's nice to have a backup well hey especially after what happened to later and later yeah don't worry if one of your beloved grad children die you'll have another one still there although it's a little weird to be to continue tying your family members to the same people who led to the deaths of your previous family members oh well isn't that why renea refuses at first she's like i know you had something significant to do with leno's death he's just like la la la la but then yeah renea's makes the decision of like well i gotta throw my lot in with one of you fuckers and she's not she's not gonna get much out of because like otto has already hitched his wagon to veyman so that's not gonna work out for renea's yeah um phenomenal scene really tragic and uplifting a wall at the same time and then it's followed up with the the scene they have like a whole meal and it's again just a banger the series and i should say patty constantine expressing this desperation while showing that he's absolutely does wit sand even comments on how i'm not gonna walk among you for much longer but i'm begging you he says not even for the crown but for this old man please stop fighting so good and it's uh this is the thing this episode eight for you it's just everything is excellent in episode eight um even when daemon chops off veyman's head and says he can keep his tongue that shit was fire as well towards the end when he's about to get carried out of the dinner scene when he's just when it goes quiet and he's just looking around at everyone having a good time and sharing some companionship once yeah and you can cherish the fact that they don't care if everyone dies he got to die thinking that they'll be okay and that's all about it through for a second before the the corruption that everyone had so ruined it through yeah it's it's done really well too because what makes it all fall apart again it's like it's the kids why is that happening because of the fucking parents because they've been they have been raised on this idea of those guys over there if you don't beat them they're going to kill you and meanwhile the parents are finally sorting it out kind of like this is at the end of episode eight you have ranira and alison have kind of managed to mend it but the thing is their kids will never and you have yeah they poisoned their kids for a decade snowball has tumbled too far yeah well yeah it's just excellent right they put the pig down and uh luceris laughs and so then aemon says his speech which is just fucking great as well the the handsome wise and strong thing he does it much clever much much more clever than uh that vapid but that way yeah um but yeah and then uh he's he's taken to his uh to his room and you just get this like i was about to say extended scene but i don't know it's it lasts as long as it should i think of him just in absolute agony like labored breathing struggling to they even show like a tear coming out of you know and it's just he's he's ruined and uh it's every motion and noise and just the design of his decrepit form they really really earn just his position in life and even just every step he takes as he walks to the throne like you can see the cheer lurching effort in it um yeah and he dies and uh they don't even like it's not even explicit in terms of his death you you pick it up you understand what's happening especially when he says no more uh yeah you feel nothing fucking bad for him poor guy he's lasted so much longer than well like was even expected because it's um i thought he would die in the jump the time jump i thought i was i was like oh he's still here all right yeah i was he collapses in the episode five a lot of people expected that to be him dead yeah it was funny watching people go he's still alive yes yeah well as we said the tenure time jump when you see him it is his old god he's lost an army like oh god oh jeez just how you doing there bud you're still walking that's something yeah like it's uh the whatever this stuff is is crawling up his face you can see it in like episode seven and then episode eight has taken his eye and reduced like a lot of his skin down to the this is not great but um yes i got a i got nothing but praise for the performance and the writing and he alone is worth seeing the story unfold the series binds a lot of this story together it feels like it's his story and from what i gather this is a dramatic improvement on the book oh yeah he's barely a character in the book yeah that's where allison's i would say yes allison uh the series i mean daemon's pretty fleshed out but matt smith matt daemon targaryen's most of the characters are a vast improvement yeah and what what the show did was allow the actors you know to kind of build their own character they they you can't imagine them as anyone else now it's like lord of the rings casting you know it's just right so this is what happens in a professional production when you have when you hire actors who are capable enough to come in and familiarize themselves with the source material so much so that they can make creative decisions with a character that are in line with the book to the point where the author of the book says wow you did better than i did uh which which uh is what george said to the series uh and that's that's that's something we've missed for so long dude i mean like i i still don't know if house of dragons are great to show ever made but like compared to everything it's in right now it just stands out like a sore thumb and the fact that it came out we said this a million times along with rings of power was it was perfect it was the universe unfolding it's like here you go here's something really bad and here's something really good at the same time yeah and there's so much to compare because yeah high budget fantasy they both want to leverage uh histories that they're a part of even in a meta sense and just like and look at look at the results the absolute difference and i also like the house of dragons started and ended around it almost like it like at eight rings of power it's i am extremely glad we spent um we spent how many e-faps on rings of power like four or five actually four or five i can't tell it's all a blur of awful um and all we could to watch rings of power and to watch this it is um it is a it's just i don't know how to describe it the difference is vast these are just on in two entirely different levels of quality they're not anywhere close to each other rings of power is is shit and house of the dragon is highly highly highly recommend it um as part of the story is ryan kandell and migel sepoknik we're supposed to do a conan show for amazon and which would have been fucking awesome and they were canned by the woman who took over the rights uh you remind me who are those two people who made this they made oh okay okay there the show runners the house of the dragon and jennifer salki sent them packing because conan was too masculine so they decided to i'm sure this is purely a coincidence pick up a be handpicked by george to do a fantasy series that just so happened to come out at the same time as theirs did but i'm sure it was a pure coincidence that's the thing i i kind of refused to believe that all of that like the time we got all of even down to the uh having two episodes out before rings of power starts up and then having their finale come after rings of power that feels deliberate as well you when you invest so much into a show both amazon and um i get so it's hbo who's doing this show still they're still doing yep wasn't um you you do wonder behind the scenes like how much each side was sweating in terms of you know the other show because before it's out you might have an idea of quality and viewership but you know there's always you know there's that always that element of being surprised well and crime is wrong this show is still being watched right but rings of power is falling off completely yeah if we go by just people talking about it i'm talking about like nielson ratings okay yeah i've heard that the rings uh yeah i've heard that the house of the dragon viewership just kept it kept going and going and going and going every episode was an increase on the last one it had like that top gun maverick effect kind of going where everyone liked it and they told everyone to jump on the train and you know watch it well if they keep this up it'll it'll be able to reach certain heights that they probably want i don't think it'll be very difficult for them after all the damage that was done done yeah that's that's a shadow that forever floats around them if house the dragon has a horrible ending people are gonna be fucking pissed like you did it again the ending is already written yeah but even let's be honest though you could still execution is everything they can still fuck it up but i i think it'll be a lot easier for them to not right the question is yeah will will you like the ending that's the question we'll see i think i think they're smart enough to know that then like will the ending be at all competent which i think it like has a much higher chance of being yes i'm gonna like find things to disagree about though i guess the question us book readers will still have is where do they end it because it just kind of meanders on mmm that's a conversation for us to have when it comes to ring when i when it comes to rings of power and house of the dragon for two i'm extremely interested to see their second seasons but for two completely different reasons i'm very interested to see the next season of house of the dragon because it's excellently written and there's a lot of awesome characters and i'm genuinely invested in curious to see what they'll do with the story and the cast that they've put together now it brings a power i'm extremely curious to see what happens more of on a metaside this element of do they do they change their strategy completely do they you know what is their plan because you have to be concerned based on its reception and the fact that your your primary competitor is beloved um which is a contrast to your own show i mean the reality of those two things you know you can deny it on social media and you could parade around as much as you'd like but they know the truth at amazon they've put too much money into this to to ignore you know the reality of it so that's what good and bad quality sort of produces when it comes to interest and what happens next it's where they go if rings of power season two and house the dragon seems to happen at the same time again like it'll act it'll just it'll kill rings of power at that point they wouldn't do it they'd have to be crazy i i think house of the dragon beats rings of power to season two i mean in terms of getting it out speedwise uh like production both yeah i yeah because both of them are big productions but it's more so a matter of with uh house of the dragon they probably know where they're going there's gotta be like a course correction happening with rings of power right there has to be i would imagine there is you can't spend that much money and get such a lukewarm response and then continue with that there's no way there's no way i mean that in a vacuum not even a million dollars like we'll go wrong though nobody's talking about it rings of power is they've started filming that have they started filming for house of dragon yet uh i'm not sure what actually how are you right i think you're right like rings of power they're still writing but they're gonna film pretty soon and they have a lot of people who worked on game of thrones who turn this stuff around in like a year yeah i was gonna say i think they they are more prepared to turn it over and my god the i imagine these actors know what they know their characters so you guys are right they're doing things with rings of power just real quick sorry house of dragon now it's a very comparison here they are absolutely shedding themselves and they're retooling things and that's gonna add six months eight months maybe a year to their production i still don't believe we'd see significant change until season three because season two is gonna have like you know residue yeah significant residue it's got season one residue on it and you can see dirty how much locked it down before we can watch it right they they started shooting in october the beginning of october so there's already they're already like two months into filming there's only so much that you can change while your production is locked in with like actors and yeah locations and stuff so now they know how badly it went they probably already planning for season three to change it up quite a bit and then season two why did they as well because it'll be shit they'll be like oh no how could they not have seen how could they not have seen that like what they had which is not that like i don't get it i my my theory that i have is that the people who are actually creating writing and making the show they have their own idea of what a good show is and the information that gets passed from them to the executives is not going to be what reality is they're going to say we're doing all of this we got this cast together it's very diverse we got these writers who they're they're great i mean everyone on sets having such a good time that's that's done we spent all this money in it the guys in the CGI dungeon are working their hearts off we're doing all this stuff and we got the music and and so they're they give this that this version of the show yeah exactly so you they tell that to the executives who aren't actually creating the show making the show being on set and supervising this project closely and they go oh excellent glad to hear it things seem to be going really really well they they keep writing the checks and then it comes out how much of it was the fact that it was they thought it was a sure thing only to realize oh that no no it's not you know to an extent as well the people who i think that comes into it people who have all of the money i could see the those kinds of people not actually being as invested in storytelling at all to the point where they could watch for example how's the dragon season one in game of thrones season eight and be like yeah so which is the bad one you're like oh damn good because they were like all the same shit at dragons people doing like a resurgence of um season eight apologia stop yeah gross there's no need we all know we know what happened we accept it we're moving on speaking of moving on actually yeah so we've got aamond and usaris left aamond is fantastic for how much time they get absolutely insane he's so cool every last second of his screen time was worthwhile you learn so much about him so quickly he um he comes in what like episode six he's properly introduced just as a kid and he like rises the ranks so quickly especially when the reintroduction and episode eight like um right he's he's such a comes across as such a like like a individual person like absolutely unique element into this world that you can't wait to see clash with everything fucking look in his eye yeah this actor holy shit they cast him well he's so cool and i really like the uh the fact that you've already got and i don't have to say anything okay i'm speaking strictly as a show watcher they seem to be building up that he is the equivalent of daemon but and they they these two could have easily been best of buds the fact that they're on opposite sides feels like we're uh we may be leading somewhere especially uh that moment where he rips into the the strong boys and uh daemon is like you know guys guys calm down and looks back and over it and they have like a stare down the two of them and i think there's even a level of respect they both have for each other because when daemon cuts off vaemon's head uh abed is like by the way these names fucking hell abed is like impressed but that's i will tell you see i think david is relatively impressed with how much aemon just fucked with everybody in that room at that meal scene without having to do much of anything he's even like laughing when he gets punched right yeah he's strong for the ride also the sapphire eye the eyepatch was good enough me but that was just killer too now it's gonna be fun like they got the right actors that it's setting it up they're gonna take their time with it you know you mentioned uh i'm sorry somebody mentioned earlier that they could have fucked up daemon five ways to sunday and this is the kind of character that from the source material haul modern hollywood would just turn into a an idiot or a toss toxic met you know even when they said this even when there was hints that the show would be a steady and toxic masculinity instead it it it wasn't that was again creatives just repeating marketing thankfully in this case sometimes it's not oh yeah dude i hated listening to people talk about their own work with this one it happens every once in a while but yeah you were watching the show together and we'd like soon as the post-show thing you'd be i'll stop stop it stop i don't need to infect the show the show speaks for itself the like technical production behind the seasons documentary was pretty interesting in the house absolutely brilliant the the dragons look great uh the series makeup was fucking incredible just towards the end uh yeah technically this thing was it it was perfect it was so good compared to especially compared to other shows well dude we uh might even try and batch it when we talk about it we'll talk about the the final scene sort of to round out about this whole show but um they got just throughout this is fucking awesome somebody really cool fantasy shots with the that beast of a dragon and i say that as if it's the only one but you got vermouth or has their own sort of amazing scene as a dragon as well and for the same i just can't resist mentioning it such cool names for dragons so cool yeah it's not you know they're not recording my um my like beginner's guide to house of the dragon video and i was just recording the names of dragons my favorite thing i was just saying vermouth or over and over because it's so fun to say yeah it radiates power doesn't it yeah the post uh the post show things would have been great if gelsa pocknick just hadn't talked at all uh and the guy's like a talented director like he's good at what he does but man his best stuff is great he's just got a problem with light which is a bad problem to have as a director yeah a little problem with light yeah and he seems to have um great contempt for the audience a little bit yes i think yeah after all the shit he got for his uh for the long night he probably hates that he did he got a shit i wonder why i wonder why he bailed out i'm curious i'm wondering if he brought him in for a season to kind of get things off the ground if that was a case or he just got burned out on it thought it would be a good idea again because after he did the long night and this is before the criticism he did an interview on just all that was was complaining how hard it was he probably got burnt out and it happens like um you know all kinds of when when created like i mean it's kind of a famous one in a sense but when joss wedens offered the two biggest novel avengers movies of all time he says no you're like wait what not like the best career move ever and it's that guy he stated working with them saying for john favreau back in the day not so much these days weird because all of his works become shit since then too i don't know what are you talking about i love the lion king 2019 i love characters that by definition don't have any expression cover who's he's either real bbc or friday ties i think it was real bbc i was talking about how he fucked the lion keg and i remember someone in chat being like he didn't make the lag he made the jungle book like no you mean both of them he's also responsible for the delorean yeah oh boy he has yeah he's got his fingers in kenobi and boba fat and pretty i don't know if he has anything to do with and all that would be interesting to find out actually let me google right now uh i know about chef yeah chef is uh yeah that's pretty interesting it's about as they think it's about his experience on iron man too yeah and then what happened it's hard for me to take chef seriously if this is like he needs to make another movie now called sell out i guess um it's uh let me see uh control is not involved it says uh but luke is no longer grasping the reins and andor not a john favreau and feloni joint but a gilroy creation through and through seems to understand that star wars makes the most enduring impact on its audiences when it isn't afraid to leave it in darkness we'll see we haven't seen it yet we'll see so far the thing is pretty good but we'll we'll see it's easy for it to beat out my eyes closed over looking at my eyelids because i'm bored to fucking death watching that show sorry i didn't like it hey well would you would you give it a second chance if i watch a little bit and say it ain't too bad at the end would that give you reason to try you know i trust you so yeah i would but uh i'm not gonna like i just don't care i don't care i just i've just been told by soda people that you got us you got to see the rest of it apparently it's the best thing disney have made for star wars but that really is i mean a lot i could believe that that's really easy to believe yeah feels like it was made by headed and solo it feels like it was made by humans it feels like yeah you know i'll watch arcane first there you go chat do it yes do it do it watch arcane i'll watch it uh over the next week i've got a little yeah do it good we'll play ragnarok do that too oh yeah no okay if you got several hours to spare several fifty really you should watch you should watch arcane it'll be faster um all right what else did i say about aamond he's great so great uh when aamon is yeah um we haven't talked about the transition from the child actors so adult actors well so i was actually just gonna say it was gonna be a general sort of topic about the transition of the 10-year gap um wow all the choices i know yeah like yeah i was very pleased to see all of the actors because they nailed it on the two things you need to do obviously you have to have the believability of the appearances that the the child that you saw becomes this new actor that they nailed and then also those actors are all really good i uh i can't believe the i went from being like oh no i really liked raniro and alison though i don't know i don't know about these new guys olivia cook impressed me really quick uh it's funny as well because like i don't know it from really anything else except okay ready player one player one yeah which uh is yeah but like in this um man does she just she do a lot of eye acting you could you could get a real sense of what she's feeling from a lot of how she's uh expressing herself there and yeah i got convinced pretty quickly that we'd be fine with with the change over actors just reassuring as hell though i would say it's kind of funny uh you could see from this graphic as well that's great that you have like you look at uh the old and new for some of these people and you're like oh i can see why they cast them i kind of looks you know but and then you see like wow some of these people they didn't they didn't age them at all they just look exactly the same uh christin cole matt smith auto high tower like all of them did change from episode one to i think auto looks a bit older it looks a little bit older um that yeah what what are you thinking about it's kind of like the same thing with those x-men movies how it started in the 60s and ends in the 90s and they look exactly the same well look at like uh all this as well right they could have yeah made call us as whole be in white or something like that but well considering how much of a transformation they did for viscera it's kind of yeah well to be fair he's also got the leprosy thing going on but i would that's true but it's uh i think the biggest sin probably is uh is is christin cole he he just yeah he looks like he's 28 the whole show was a good westerosy uh you know pleb genes right there that's that's all i think it's pretty cool is uh if you look at um lionel and beesbreed they they both got a really decent sort of uh transitionary 10 years age up like uh they were already old they just you know you say that but like you could have done that with auto but they just sort of didn't like that level of a moving on same with colis same with um you know like daemon is just they just they were like nah we're not gonna fuck with them it's fine just leave it um and that's the thing i wouldn't even i believe he plays daemon differently in the earlier years the later years just that uh i wonder if there was something they could have done to sort of separate them in terms of age because we are talking what a 20 year difference and he looks exactly the same that's the same for a couple of them but yeah so simultaneous is like okay you didn't really do much there and some people look at tom cruise right he can kind of convince you over 20 years that he's not really aged much at all but uh it's the tom cruise of westeros that's what he is but i would just go as far as saying at that point it's a missed opportunity right it helps us distinguish that time has passed really well there's no reason not to do it sort of thing and in the in the examples they did do it i think they did really well it's such a ballsy creative move you got this show that's following the desert like the biggest television disaster of all time it's going up again it's another fantasy series you're changing two of your main actors and they were incredibly the younger actors were incredibly popular and we were even saying man this is it like this we decided you know the lives are not and they frickin nailed it man you know you say it you say it very casually but i guess when you think about it gamethrones really was the biggest disaster in all television yeah like we just sort of accept that as a reality but it sort of bears the emphasis i think that that's probably true gary you'd probably want to do an honorable mention for dr who at least right if not yeah because yeah but like cultural impact i mean as far as fans like gamethrones had more fans than dr who that's that's probably like i would say dr is like the worst destruction of an intellectual property i've ever seen like ever ever anything even star wars or stars are pretty bad gamethrones was the biggest thing in the world as far as genre scripted television everybody was watching it everybody was laughing and they freaking murdered it man they god and it was it was uh it was showrunners who uh once they got i mean we've gone over this before but once they got past the source material they didn't know what the hell they were doing and we and we find out later they even emitted it and it was the crew they had such a solid crew there that you know the hbo crews are experienced they've been doing this stuff for a long time they're very good at what they do and they were carrying these guys oh it's like uh and they were dictators you know you have this enormous well-oiled machine that's got all these crazy components that are all of the highest quality working at the maximum speed and then you just dropped a grenade in there it's like why and that's in the form of the writers they ruined everything because everything is upstream or downstream sorry from writing uh you hamper everybody's ability to represent the story if you make the fucking foundational script shit i have never seen something so explosively disappear from the popular type guys like game of thrones relatively comparable not it's not the same thing but just i feel like i've noticed that rick and morty went from being incredibly influential yeah non-existent because yeah i don't even hear much about it right now nobody talks about it really weird it's happening right now it's like yeah nobody cares but i mean i'm sure some people care but yeah i was the sush one sauce right oh yeah ended it that was well that was that was the type of season was that season three three that was when it was like yeah it was the most popular yeah um but yeah meanwhile like game of thrones is bad ending this is the thing like Lord of Rings has hindu it for two decades more even uh and it will the movies i'm being specific about now obviously the books have been doing for fucking ages but um game of thrones is a show it's hard to recommend it it's complete and it's hard to recommend it you just like if you ended well people will be sharing it forever that's how it works for star trek yep absolutely go watch tng go watch for watching space nine it's so funny no matter what fucking franchise i choose like well you don't be the modern stuff or no no i mean we mean the old good things yeah yeah because at least with star trek unlike game of thrones it has like completed you could you call them series among many series like game of thrones was one big thing so it's just a mess that's the problem with doctor who as well right like it's like it's hard to draw lines sometimes usually do it between doctors or show runners um but yeah much easier to do it with star trek not as easy with game of thrones to the point where you go by season and then even then you have people drawing minds all over place i personally don't want to venture into season five ever again it's really hard to do that with a show that has such strict continuity in telling a single story because you get to the end you kind of say oh yeah just stop watching it season four it's like well then just why bother with it why bother watching it all like i still have my investment and the promise that it becomes bad isn't going to make my investment go away well you can play to people like well hey maybe i'll enjoy it though you know it might not be that bad well i want to see it anyway and if that was enough for if that promise of it's going to get bad was enough to kill their investment they wouldn't have watched it in the first place so they watch up to season eight and then buy a gun that's so incredibly terrible yeah really is um i did yeah you can't help but think about it because you're like they actually do it we could have been at the point of saying so it's like what do you think a house of drag was like yeah just another shit season of a shit fancy show they're trying to restart be launched it wasn't very good or it was boring or whatever but no they've come through enough that we all were like actually now this is pretty pretty good with talking about and it has payoffs in it that are pretty unique and powerful and uh there's no reason why they couldn't keep doing that um but yes uh the last person to really talk about especially the scenes they share together would be adding luceris into this conversation and i think they with the very little time they had of him you characterize him as someone unlike almost everyone else who his view on succession and inheritance is that of i don't want any of it because it'll have to mean someone died for me to have it when i care about someone in my family which is like oh my god does anyone else ever express that perspective and all of westeros doesn't even happen um and yeah and he's the one that gets killed the one who's like i don't want to engage with a lot of this because it means people i love will die um brave little boy and he becomes the one the loved one who dies that makes things happen yeah uh i mean and he took his you know it's like uh you know he wants to be involved at the same time you know he wants to he doesn't want to feel useless he's he's kind of like his brothers in that way brother in that way um well when when uh raniera gives them sort of their tasks you can tell they're very much like we're gonna come through for you we're gonna do this right this is important um yeah we've had conversations about whether or not that was a a wise choice from raniera i'm gonna go with no um sending her very young children on their very young dragons to places that are potentially hostile while being told that they're being treated with the other side at the same time the especially storm's end the storm's end is not far away from very dangerous places um you know sending him further north feels safer than sending him south is kind of comes down to something you don't want to have to acknowledge which is the dragon travel being kind of bullshit you mean in what way sorry because i'm not going to disagree but yeah okay so them traveling alone is dependent upon dragons being a thing and dragon travel being something that you can do to get between places especially considering uh i don't know if this is i guess book knowledge but westeros is freakishly huge it is absurdly massive um so the amount of time it would unless the dragons are obscenely fast to the point of killing their riders the amount of time it would take to get there would necessitate stopping at least once along the way which means you still need to have a royal entourage or just you know an entourage of some description at all so the only thing enabling the idea of dragon travel to get from place to place quickly like this is the idea that they can you know it's like a car ride that can get there in an afternoon or whatever yeah isn't really feasible and west roads is such danger yeah it's the size of south america pretty much big boy west roads and uh the george has always had like uh this is going to sound bad size issues uh uh chat you can't it's because he's fat what do you mean yeah maybe that's kind of you're right you're right that that there's parts of uh this fantasy that's supposed to like be the nuts and bolts and answer the questions that like talking didn't like that doesn't it just get stuff wrong and it's gonna yeah it creates more problems as it goes along it doesn't keep all this stuff in in track but um yeah him you can see what's probably going to happen when this season's coming to an end and she's like you guys go off on your own and auto's already said we're we're dealing with some of the others as well offering them stuff and then uh he even gets i think focus at the beginning um luceras he's looking at drift mark and he's saying like i don't know if like me leading armies is ridiculous because i don't know anything about it and stuff like that and then her reassuring him and being like don't worry you know i i had to deal with stuff that i wasn't ready for just like uh oh get a little bit of screen time he's on his own it's very rainy and then we get the i'm gonna actually go grab him now but the uh uh vagar is particularly fucking cool in this episode they took advantage of uh having a giant dragon let's put it that way yeah they're really lucky that they managed to get her in the cost they chose well you know of all the dragons are on offer they they cast plenty of small dragons but uh they cast one of them bigans grandma dragon body positivity well she she's got a bit of she's got a bit of flab going but she's like a million years old so i love that bbd dude that looks so the that looks so good though that was like okay nick yep all of it was pretty damn good yeah by the way the i think it was free you mentioned it would be first watch it but the color scheme on uh the luceris's dragon like really cool it's not that's it it's dead but yeah this this shot in particular having like this is what i mean though it's like why does this shot so fucking cool it's like it was probably because it's a binding of absolute fantasy with things we're more familiar with like a building a castle then you just have this fucking giant lizard in the background bearing over it it's like well that's it's the value of having all of those objects and buildings in the foreground just gives us a sense of the scale of this dragon yeah i'm just fucking insane and you get that to them when aamon claims vega you see like that he has to clot he scales her like a building yeah that's see yeah that's where they nailed it with this stuff with the fantasy imagery that and you know daemon walking out uh walking out of the cave after he uh cuts you know cuts in half of crab feeder and the dragons are flying in the background that was so fucking cool that's like why i watch this stuff i love it i definitely love those moments tactical i'm trying to find that i can love coraxies so much he's so dumb the neck is so dumb he's a noodle dragon but uh he's a big spicy noodle boy i wonder um because i wonder if i would i would hate the design if the show was really bad or if i'm very much in favor of the noodle dragon just because it's i just like the show a lot anyway so because uh yeah no he's such a unique dragon weird windy way he always takes off and flies yeah he's fluky yeah he's so goofy that was a cool moment by the way when when aamon uh first starts writing vega um daemon is watching it in the skies and uh i think raniera spotson says who's writing it it's like yeah that has incredible repercussions as to whoever is riding that dragon dragons are vaguely analogous to nukes but you know not one use it's like someone just went and got the biggest one someone just went and picked up a f***ing zarba or whatever yep there's the image i was like oh cool that's good i thought best dragon cool we take those that's the thing it was so like even with a limited time they had they set up exactly what kind of person aamond is and he's like i i believe he'd be like he knew he could die doing this but that's how much he wants this dragon yeah he's defined by his dragonlessness to up to this point and he has one of the coolest ones yeah um and it seemed to me the scene of vega flying around was like really want to be the the dragon rider let's see if you could deal with it and then came through and so big i was like all right you're kind of cool i'll give it to you pretty young but i like this guy he's all right yeah and uh and funnily enough uh i want to set this up a little bit before we see what happens but uh visaries when he first talks to raniera properly about like inheritance and stuff and becoming um the queen he talks about the dragons and he says uh you know people think we have control of them but we really don't yeah and uh that line is super important for this scene uh oh yeah this is what i was looking for oh you mean these guys was a mistake you mean set they set something up for much later in the show and then didn't like describe it to us well i feel very confident that's going to do a lot going forward just the idea that oh that's so good yeah this is one of the best shots in the entire show it's so amazing like uh they made it they made a jaw seed in the sky like they do so well to leverage vegas sheer scale so scary it is pretty terrifying yeah um and yeah and and you discover quickly that amon is looking to fuck with with him that's it he doesn't want to kill him let's do the screw with him because that means bad bad bad things happen it's a very very tenuous situation explodes even just beyond the tenuous situation kin slaying is not a good yeah a man just wants to do a bit of trolling but gets out of hand i'll get a bit too seriously yeah and uh we can talk about right but like i i did like the way this scene unfolded in terms of the absolute stress and anger that the smaller dragon is going to be feeling and uh being made to be it's like a top of the chain predator a dragon but it's made to feel like a fucking mouse in this scene um you have like all those emotional things going on and of course the panic for the dragon rider and so it takes a pot shot at vega and vega despite being the most mature dragon available right now probably is like did you seriously just fucking attack me you know who i am or that sort of thing he said there is a tempest in me yep and so uh yeah i just think it's all set and both the riders are like don't no you stop listen like they're just both panicking in the sea because the dragons dragons got their own intentions in this scene um and yeah uh it's so fucking sad he gets this moment of rising above the storm it's pretty chill and we get this pause just relaxing and almost heavenly moment and then it just cuts him with uh unfortunately the other dragon is here and uh yeah it just chews it apart and all the pieces fall down it's such a like oh Jesus Christ dragon came apart like fucking tissue paper yeah Jesus Christ and i especially love this is like the first time we ever see amond looks fucking distraught did yeah right before that though i love that it chews it apart and there's guts flying in the air and it grabs some more guts on the way and then it goes into this shot it's like and then he's all oh shit it's like two layers to this is like holy shit he just killed that guy then there's oh my oh oh that's really bad i want i want to see what he did when he got home did he just go like mom i accidentally a civil war i could totally see him being like well it's gonna get discovered so i may as well just oh it is like yeah i uh i got some news like you're not gonna like it i may have some bad news i secured the barathean alliance and i killed bursaris double good news turns out that i like really come in handy they're like you killed who he's like i really think you're ignoring the barathean thing i feel like that's not being a dragon mom why you always know the folks are gonna negative geez mom you're always a glass half empty kind of person come on oh man that shot of all the pieces just falling as well as like uh you tore him up completely and yeah uh the show ending on that moment of raniera getting the news and uh i think it can sometimes for an actor actress whatever be difficult to pull off a face like this but i think she kind of nailed it you get an impression of like oh geez she's gonna kill everybody the fire in the background as well yeah which apparently this was all mass myths idea this scene right yeah there was a different plan at first but he suggested something really straightforward and powerful yeah you know what the plan was originally was it something to do with syrax i have no clue i'm just asking out of curiosity what i remember reading it's something to do with a plan to do with a dragon right it was going to be does anyone that gliders you'd know you know everything um i'm just making sure i'm right about this before i speak on it all right well that that's not acceptable that's not an accessory well that's that's unprecedented just affirm whatever and be right uh i'm pretty sure there's a like a big epic speech that she does this conversation yeah i thought there was a conversation of sorts uh and they completely cut that it's just her looking at the camera and i think it's way more powerful oh you get to draw it all out yourself you know exactly what this is it's you've you've drawn first blood it's over this is war stipulate on what she's thinking you can see what she's thinking it's subtlety yeah um you get to use to think all about it especially daemon doesn't seem to be in this moment it looks like he's deferring to her anger like he's gonna be pissed off but it's gonna be nothing compared to what she's gonna feel and he like backs off it's like yep i already know what this means sort of i can't wait for season two it's gonna be really really really fucking fun especially if a trailer comes out and baits the kind of payoffs we're expecting it's gonna be like well time to get the gag back together it's nice to have things to look forwards to well yeah because arcane season two i'm gonna be really excited for aren't you feel i'm all this fucking terrified waiting room in the waiting room watching every additional piece of content for lul to see if it gives away anything about what arcane will be like you're hoovering on whatever material they put out yeah um i suppose there's not gonna be anything but scenes happen there's other things in the events events will happen and there's certain events that they saved for season two that i was worried they would rush towards in season one that they didn't and i'm ultimately very grateful for that because i think you mean when those guys do those things when those guys do those things and the things happen uh that's uh yo i love those things happen you guys spoiled the one thing i didn't want to be spoiled yo pride rock sources have told me things will happen now know that the guys are gonna do the things right so in thanks impossible to recover um sorry yeah the production design fantastic sound design the acting the soundtrack the choice of ox for all these different characters all of the ways they interact the the one thing i i've seen people say it was lacking in the show was that the will didn't feel that big but the fact is like the story didn't take place in many areas they didn't like king's landing was like the big one and then dragon stone was like secondary yeah you have to figure out anyway you have to infer a bunch about just what happens elsewhere but it's not like super impactful in any real way they focus on places they need to if something important happens somewhere then we'll be i guess this kind of story almost everything that's of importance happens and you know these castle places or you know keeps and things so i think they've proven themselves at this point and so we could probably expect an expansion season two and three and stuff they'll go to different place wondering how it would be nice it would be nice hmm get some scenery imagine if we're getting a war that needs to be you know battle is fought in the war which necessitates going around a bit that's a hesitate going around a bit maybe some things is it some castles maybe never know winter fell i know that one pride rock but winter fell which one's been to the one with the big it has like a snowball on it because winter fell the snowballs winter fell over oh that's another thing gary it'd be stranger things season five hopefully that's good we'll not know yeah we'll see they're working on that so yeah i i wonder if it's going to be like shortened split season again or we'll see since it's the last one it's definitely going to be someone i'll check out because i just want to see what happens you know i'm just very happy that david harbour will be filming that and thunderbolts simultaneously oh i cannot wait for thunderbolts thunderbolts is my favorite of all the bolts what is it you don't know what it is i don't know what thunderbolts are well you know ghost right thunderbolts the dog from uh he's the hero dog from 101 dominations it's marvel suicide squad oh i mean it's gonna be shit what what you guys i think you like i'm sorry i know i said it was going to be the shit it's going to be amazing oh yeah there you go yeah yeah um yeah i'll be sure anything else anyone wants to say in general about house of the d oh i'm kind of misty all right are we all right sorry let's send things on a high note that's yeah that's sad actually to bring this up now accidentally piloting a dragon through the roof fucking hell yeah listen just close your eyes and think of a saris it's um yeah rain was in inverted controls okay rain is just kind of interesting to me and then she was not uh not at all um she really talked a big game about how you know these men they'll watch the rumba and instead of you know men would sooner put the realm to the torch than see a woman ascend the iron throne and your father is no fool and then you have allison saying back to her we need to direct and you know push men to make sure they don't engage in the via violence and she says like a queen needs to take care of her people she says something like that i hate listening to those fucking words when they have that as an ending for a woman will just assume break through a wall and kill thousands of peasants then take the proper exit fucking to kill that many people just to make like a power play i've actually heard the defense there's no other way out and it's like how could they be no other way out that's making fucking sense at all every time a dragon leaves the pit muller that's why they have to rebuild the temple the construction costs are through the fucking roof why no and there's no union or anything yeah it's one chagarian king or the other be like why don't we make it like this because it's tradition damn it absolutely fucking nuts yeah she the whole episode is filled with crazy contrivances she never should be able to get to a dragon it's a plot point that she can't he's like when she get her armor wait she left it by the dragon everyone does that because the armor looks very very cool so we need to have her an armor like galadriel um i also think it's dumb as fuck that she didn't burn all of them to be honest with you especially the character and then for her reasoning you you can sort of think of the reasoning yourself but then she claims her reasoning is that it was not her right to start the war her reasoning is terrible but i don't think burning them all is actually a legitimate option i think it is they've already put a crown on them all and your mind and everyone vaguely related to you is like scum forever for like yeah so to be fit they don't do a good enough job of even implementing that in game of thrones i don't think like that they need to really play that at computer uran kills his family sir c kills her family yeah uh laria kills her family to the casual watcher kinslaying isn't even a thing exactly uh but secondly this i think reynice is the kind of person to know that if she wipes them out here and now then it saves shit tons of lives um unfortunately she just killed shit tons of people everyone in that room that needed to die lived and everyone who needed to live died it's a rationale she gives her it's the most borked power play ever like she comes out with making this huge grandiose statement of like yeah that's a symbol that like rejection of the offer that was given right well i thought she said her reasoning was it's not her war to start yeah and then she shows up to reynir and she's like no it's not my war to start it's like you kind of if that's not an act of war fucking gate crashing the coronation i don't know dude i bet i dragon i can't stop mentioning the killing of that many civilians you can't just casually do that and then the writers would give a statement of like it's gave a throne civilians don't count very true um there there is a hint of truth to it in particular context of particular discussions in relation to game of thrones but also to the wider context of like those have to be specific yeah very specific but not that one where you just casually kill a whole bunch of people first of all it's bad enough for a character it destroyed it because nothing i can't i can't take seriously anything she says anymore that has anything to do with it's funny um when she's like trapped and and alison is trying to say like this is an attempt to avoid violence and she's like avoid violence is what you're doing to me and i'm just like stop stop talking anytime you mention anything about keeping peace or avoiding damage i just like i look at you just like i can't believe they did it again denaris is bad enough they have another woman do this insane move and it's like and it makes no sense again like how did you not learn and then you find out like the person who made that episode i'm pretty sure is not responsible for like the viscera stuff uh or it's a slightly different person slightly different teams slightly different rationales and i'm just like i see i understand and that it was supposed to be a girl power moment and it was shared all over the internet as a girl power moment and it's just like guys isn't it just it's it's isn't it just like a fucking tumor on things well you could have girl power moments why the hell did you do that there was like a bunch of legitimate just powerful moments in in the show like you did not need that at all it would have been we talked about it would have been more powerful for her to bust out somewhere else without killing a bunch of people yes that would have been like it's like oh shit now people are going to find out that we just basically usurp the throne or she can characterize so strongly as giving a shit about the small folk yeah she can make a power play and disrupt the coronation just by flying around the city like and just grabbing attention that way yeah you have like the audience are yelling and cheering and it finally dies down with a gone celebrate and then you hear me like screeching over and it's like hey excuse me they kind of refer back to the reference in the book that the dragon pit there's there's two frames of mind of what happened during the coronation right that it was packed and people were enthusiastic and the other version was no it was about a third the two-thirds full and it was very quiet and you could have thrown that in you have rainy's fly around and then the crowd that was once enthusiastic like stops immediately you could just hear them quiet up immediately and that would send a message to agon then see there's there's a lot of different ways you could have done this that would have been better but now we need the girl pal speaking of the book um i i can see why they wanted to do something like what they did like they are setting up something specific that i obviously won't mention but um i get the motivation behind that but like it's just not a good enough reason to yeah it was a huge blight and it changed it had a significant lot shit and it does damage to a main character or secondary character but still it's just like uh why do you understand how she can possibly pretend like she's neutral after doing that or a good person yes there's a next episode she just like sits in the back of renaire's it's really pretty she's like paying no respect to renaire during all of the ceremonies she's around for like everyone else bows and she doesn't which is supposed to be like ah she's undecided but no that's just playing disrespectful and i don't know if you've heard but medieval societies operate based off of respect so that's kind of fucked well she also just sees this she when you rewatch it it's actually really hard to watch your scenes because she sees herself as so far above everyone else the way she oh from up on that dragon she's you know she she is she's gonna use the kill people in season two they just call her out on all of it that's the problem i don't know that they've done anything wrong we're in that situation now we said this before we saw the next episode we were like unfortunately she won't get punished because they the writers have already said like this was an awesome moment it's like oh no as a mother stomping on a bunch of mothers yeah yeah sorry so to give context one of the things they said was that the writers said she didn't burn them all because she couldn't bring herself to burn allicent a mother just like she is it's like what about all the people in the room she just stood on a whole bunch of mothers she checked in earlier none of them were mothers everything i hear an actor say about a character is like really good and insightful everything i hear a writer say about a character is just or like a scene is poison oh yeah when you see what the actors had to say about doctor strange and multi for some matters for them to desperately try to explain anything about that movie oh it's great because of reason no yeah it's more than likely you end up with especially actors who really give a shit like uh listening to patty concity and talk about his inspirations for how he played the series is golden um and then listening to you know elizabeth olson try to justify wander's insanity it's like oh it's like the actors that put in these positions because the writers you know give them shit to work with or greatness to work with make it even yes i'm not glad go stab twist got mm-hmm another legendary girl boss they kill an orc very cool it's not as cool as nori no you went off the trail like that i'm still not over it we're gonna gate crash the coronation fly away straight to raniera hang around with raniera for a while but it's okay we haven't picked a side yeah then call this comes in and he's like let's not pick a side and she's like actually no raniera oh okay i'm what you call a go getter stuck with raniera now because this is a succession crisis you can't be neutral well i thought it was kind of funny because like if call us and said we've decided we're gonna remain neutral it would be such an awkward like they slowly walking out of the room and raniera's like um nah grab them grab them i i don't understand why that was presented as an option you can't be neutral in a succession crisis someone's gonna be king well what happens if you just say um i'm gonna think about it i don't i don't know who's king i gotta think about it you can think about it hey we're just gonna sit this one out and whoever's king at the end like whatever thumbs up to you whoever you know i don't have any strong opinions at all so i suppose that i'll be over here let me know who wins and i'll serve you there's an implication being a binary but i think fray did yeah well so interestingly right that's what that guy tries in episode eight nine yeah nine he's he's like uh i have to confer with my house and then auto says you cannot leave this room until you declare like who doesn't you know you can make it so it's binary you have to choose but if you're wall defray or someone else who's got a huge army and just sits in a castle yeah you'll be like nah i haven't chosen fuck you that's the thing like if you're in king's landing there is no neutrality yeah well then that oh that was another thing i didn't like when that guy tries to escape and and that that that part is like something i'm surprised he got as far as he did but when he's like he's brought before auto and larris is like he was clearly trying to warn the queen and then auto's like hmm and then the guy is like uh you know you you presume far too much and then auto goes all right why were you leaving and he's just silent oh it's like you couldn't make up anything you couldn't say you're gonna go visit family you couldn't say like you needed something anything you just went oh shit anything just say there's a fucking silent pennies for god sakes come up with something i saw a spider and i got scared and he legit he gets hanged for that i was like you mother you couldn't have why open with i don't know if he would have been able to weasel himself out of you gotta try what the hell yeah yeah i'm just gonna go back to that castle and tell everyone i declared for you what how they're gonna find out i'm i'm fast for a horse ride dude i do it every day i love my horse rides i literally do and auto says you literally don't and he said oh but i literally do they go starting today i do it every day starting today starting today i do it every day every day i promised viscera's if he died i would ride a horse ride a horse every morning every day was this whole thing you wouldn't get it we had a thing we would connect we had a thing it was something about the song of ice and fire or whatever you wouldn't tell you because you're not with it yeah well how's the dragon not not not me though i think you're worthy it's just that that's him i'm just telling you what he said uh people say do you recommend it it's like i'd probably rather to wait until the whole thing is out but i can't deny that people should probably see the story of viscera's targaryen absolutely so neat yeah don't watch gamut game of thrones afterwards if you haven't seen them if you haven't seen well you'll see dragon your hope right is that they nail it with house the dragon they maybe do another sort of sure series like probably the rebellion or something else and then that they maybe remake game of thrones so you're hoping if uh if the world gets right again yes that would be my i have always thought that the game of thrones story is better suited to like an animated adaptation just because there's so much ridiculous scope that is easy to capture in a non-live action format robust rebellion would probably be the last thing they make the reason i think they would do it is because they can rely on a lot of game of thrones alger be like look we got a lot of points in robert's rebellion that are like big spoilers for the books that george is apparently still trying to get out yeah that's what he says apparently even the the dance of the dragons with this is based on is supposed to be a backstory for a song of ice and fire that's just how it started you know and uh it's supposed to be a lesson uh for other characters and like i think it did spoil something for a song of ice and fire i think the song of ice and fire that was on the blade i think some form of that is actually going to happen in the book but it hasn't happened yet but it makes a lot of sense it explains some targaryens doing what they did like agon the fifth reygar reygar i agree if you're going to put something on the sword aim and it should be loyal brave and true yeah nailed it well house of the dragon house of the dragon everybody that's uh that's uh that's really impressed by it absolutely pretty good what a neat show likes a lot of great characters didn't see that one come really cool thematic elements mm i yeah we got it yep i'm i'm glad we got it too thank you ryan thank you ryan condol and in terms of uh saris is real nice because his story is is wrapped up it's uh it's complete it can't be ruined yeah yeah there's an element of that as well that at least you know that there is the one thing is safe you know you got that insurance policy that you've always got vissaris you never know there may come a day where a lot of people who said he wasn't a good king or like maybe it wasn't so bad well yeah they'll be pining for those days get them back um all right well uh next up we're gonna we're gonna check out the messages that have been sent over course of this stream but i would like to offer as it's uh the particular time into this stream if anyone should wish to escape into the world of the living for a good time that will be me i do have to go attend to some business elsewhere gross thank you for having me on there's but i'm fine it's been a long time coming yeah it's been like a year finally we found a subject mola and i've been talking about doing something together like three years any day now any day well that's the thing it'll just be i'll just have this was it this was it everyone yeah that's it now yeah gotta go all right bye forever yeah but uh don't worry see you want to make more scenes out we'll make more scenes of this thing and then we can talk about it again it was great but uh yeah yeah tell people what it is you do you crazy symbol on a gray background um what does that symbol it's a glidas it's um well with serifs that i added personally it's just a dumb fucking avatar i made when you know you've got to make branding when you make a channel and i didn't have any other ideas yeah a line is pretty cool yeah thanks yeah i think it's pretty cool um yeah like lines um i'll make overly edited videos about game of thrones so far and maybe other things in the future who knows um i'm apparently funny i don't know about that but you know i'd agree i binged basically your entire video catalog after finishing hot the so did you saw your icon was that rags is it but like like feels like i watched your whole library right like i saw your icon i love how it's i love how i like the the ironic artistic decision to have such a minimalist icon to contrast with the overly edited uh final products that you put out on your channel it's uh it's a bold vision i can definitely appreciate that's the kind of that's the kind of forethought that i appreciate from any fat guest are you still working through just getting coverage of basically every episode of game of thrones on hot day is that the uh the plan um yeah i'm gonna finish my house of the dragon videos then season six of game of thrones i have a series called god review where i talk about i go like basically what we did today but like even longer and more bewildering um character by character through the earlier seasons of the show it's fun time yeah even went back and born one day you'll run out and then you'll have to talk about another show impossible well don't worry you'll have that's why it takes a long to make videos i'm gonna say by the time you get through all of hoddy and got you'll probably have another two shows that they've made what you got yeah they'll be provided i'm not being lectured about video releases by maul or am i no i i was saying what a good choice multiple times i said what a good choice that you've done you know no it's yeah it's good great clever business decision it's great for the algorithm oh yeah i i'm familiar with such that's what people love long videos that only get released once per like half a year that's that's the way to do it i mean it's not great for the like algorithm but people do come out in drums it's weird right it's like um this is a holiday like christmas you get as long as become more popular over time in terms of like you see like an hour breakdowns of some obscure nicolodian show and you're like okay and then like those people tune in i don't know if it's because they they go to sleep to them or that they put them on while they've gone to a really long shift in work and that's just i watched all the drake and josh episodes in portuguese for this 12 hour review pretty neat what did you think well i think it's just because god is dead that's probably why i saw him yesterday he's fine oh yeah yeah he's chilling out watching hot d god made house of the dragon and rings of power just to remind us what he's capable of yeah he's like don't cross i'm capable of horrific torture and incredible you know joy so don't don't fucking push it all right stay on my good side all righty well subscribe to go ahead link in description and i posted it in the drawer don't oh yeah you sell yourself what's the opposite when i hit a hundred thousand subscribers which is soon apparently i'm going to well i've it's kind of basically gonna happen i'm going to eat the winds of winter when it comes out what do you mean by that surely your search is this is some kind of subtext no i'm going to acquire a physical copy of the book paper and ink yeah and consume it are you going to read oh after eating it why would i read it so that you could so that sounds like a book now now for a slight amount amount of you know seriousness here uh that sounds hilarious and all but are you sure that you can eat a whole book and not like hurt yourself no so you should actually probably check yeah just to see if you could eat that much that's a big book too i've done the research i'm fully aware of how terrible an idea it is because i don't know about like the ink you um and stuff like that i was like actually the check what math are you what math are you going with i think you're gonna be like soup i think i can do a variety of things why did this happen why was this something you promised so once on stream um you know hollow night silk songs been in development for a long time i was streaming hollow night and someone asked me do i think the winds of winter or silk song will come out first and i said just off the cuff um if the winds of winter comes out before silk song i'll eat it because like that's so unlikely and then i just kept using that as a thing to say for things i thought were unlikely i will eat the winds of winter if this happens you know and then i thought well you know what i'll just eat the winds of winds well you can eat the winds of winter uh the romance book it's out like you can find it that could be oh my god that's a good idea so you kept making the band and you were like you clearly noticed about yourself you're like you've been making this bet because ultimately you just want to eat it you're looking for an excuse that is why i kept saying it i realized deep down there was a part of me that wanted to put that book in my body well you could just show of your ass you don't need to eat it well maybe you absorb like the information from it and just yeah that's what i was thinking yeah yeah yeah you are what you eat and i'm gonna be a book you're gonna be the winds of winter um mold yeah so i i know it's great to pull a hair in and everything but like seriously check and make sure it's safe to eat a book my brother is a doctor and um i've talked to him about this and and his response was um don't do that and he just doesn't know what makes for good content though so i'm gonna do it anyway yeah idiot he probably doesn't even have a youtube channel he's not he's not content brained yeah exactly i'm gonna lose a doctor anyway thanks for asking who's a doctor these days um but yeah no thanks for thanks for popping on for the quick five hours thanks for having me on see you next time so yeah quick leaf app all right oh can do toodaloo oh you're my boy just the nice travel yeah i'll leave now three two all right audios all right Theo gary you guys hanging around for a bit or you leave and i'm hanging out for a half an hour all right so we're getting the super chats first one says if critics are supposed to be objective then reviews wouldn't need to exist at all every critic would say the exact same thing how am i supposed to respond to this oh wow um i would like you to i mean explain gosh you could probably just find a test to show that that's just not the case so there does seem to be this misunderstanding that an objective review is just this clinical sterile description of events as they occur without any level of analysis or creativity or anything like that it's if you if you were to go and ask a hundred people what they thought of the same movie or to describe it objectively you will get vastly different answers yeah that isn't of itself should describe the point the person who told you that if they are gonna go from the school of thought of like if i was to describe a given objective all i would say is it's the name it was made this time these people made it it has this mechanic in it that functions this way it's like already you've gone a different direction on the next person they might describe in a different order or they put one thing ahead of another thing or and then of course it's like what is the line between moving from objective to subjective if it is as simple as the character's name is blah blah blah they feel blah blah blah and that is a subjective part you're like why it's like well because i just assume that's what they feel i don't know not written in stone it's not a part of the better information of the creation of it what i'm highlighting is it's funny that you can be so sure of to be objective would mean everybody would sound exactly the same when everyone disagrees on what it even means to be objective um just i mean fringy and fringy and moller and you know they've both done movie reviews for instance and they're just different products or just different people yeah ultimately styles if somebody wants to make it their goal to create a review where they try to focus as much on the material and do so impartially in in attempting to do that people are invariably going to come to different conclusions about what is in a story and then they'll present their arguments for why they think it works or why they think it doesn't they're going to focus on different things because they have perspectives ultimately that are going to inform what they focus on or why they chose to talk about it or whether they want to focus on a specific character or a specific theme certain plot points how they would even structure whatever they have to say like the notion that if you make an attempt to essentially approach like a creative work and try to dissect it in a way that is as much as possible not hugely informed by like your own cognizant biases it's still going to be different because people ultimately agree and disagree on things and have different things that they value and ideally the way that you would think about it is that you want to create some sort of framework that you can use to talk about stories in a way that people will be able to understand and that you can explain why you've come to a conclusion it doesn't mean that everybody's going to come to the exact same conclusion yeah being objective is not because we get this a depressingly high amount people think that being objective is essentially making claims about the absolute truth of anything and that's all that it is process i think what people get hung up on in terms of that word would be that it's like you're trying to make a claim that's unassailable which i think is probably maybe somebody would try to throw out that word to make a claim that's unassailable but i mean ultimately someone could claim that and then you could just make better arguments yeah not that that's even bad i mean if i if i was when i get around to making reviews of shows and things then i want every one of my claims and to be things that are pretty you know pretty airtight you know i don't i want them to be correct yeah so i mean it's not a bad goal to have i mean you know it goes without saying someone can think they're being objective and be wrong or even that's not you know there's a lot of the people that engage in the whole like absolutely not true can't even remotely be objective about absolutely anything at all you'll catch them in their reviews we uh do you remember the clip of uh high top where he was like some people claim that daredevil is too slow or boring no that is objectively wrong like that was hilarious all the time it's like they all do it well so this will help you a lot is you should recognize that for as much as uh like there's always going to be some framework that you have that you're going to be applying to stories and you're likely or to anything really and the better that you understand that the less likely you are to say something stupid like that that there is no such thing as like being able to appeal to true things in a story but then also make the claim that if you personally feel like something is boring which is totally subjective that you're wrong yeah honesty it really comes with yourself you know yeah you know that's that's the the baseline of this you know just be real yeah i think um accuracy and you're you're able to check whether or not you've been accurate it that's not a subjective thing you don't use your subjective elements to ensure that you've been accurate with your reviews ultimately i think that one of the goals that i would have in terms of developing some sort of framework that i can apply consistently to stories is i have my own brain that is obviously going to have preferences in terms of storytelling and biases and levels of like irrationality in terms of different aspects of storytelling like things that personally appeal to me or are meaningful to me versus things i dislike um not everybody is going to think about things the same way and you can't assume that they will understand what you're saying or what you believe like if you can't develop some sort of framework that better distills the values that you have when it comes to storytelling because everybody's got different values but like you can convey that effectively or you can convey it poorly relatively if actually if all five of us were told to do a review of house the dragon without involving any personal feelings it has to just be references to how the show works and what it did and connecting so you know you have to very robotically claim like this is a trait that was set up in this episode and it manifests here and it's uh got a variable of this and that's what leads to that like all those videos are going to be drastically different they're all going to be different absolutely and i you know even if they were all considered absolutely objective by whatever robot decided that that was that was the case we didn't let any of our feelings bleed in all of it was testable and provable they would still all prioritize differently spend different amounts of time on different things oh yeah like if if fringies review spent 80 percent of the time talking about viscera smaller's review spent 80 percent of time talking about raniera i spent 80 percent of the time talking about uh brim brimble barbell bee's worth and then this like that those could all be equally as objective as the other but we just focus on different things you have you have way more freedom of what you can do and and there's so much of the creative process there even if you're trying to be as objective as you can i think uh something that's quite sterile thing considering is that when it comes to like truth statements about a story it's on a spectrum right there's like degrees to which you can support or discredit a claim about a story so like if you said man saving private ryan was awesome i love the part when superman flew to krypton and then played like gears of war that was a really great scene like you're just wrong like you're totally wrong you're completely and utterly wrong like what you've referenced is not in the story and all of the claims that you make on the basis of that reference are worthless but then it could go like more so oh well i think that this scene in a in a film is like bearing reference to or an allegory for like i don't know some story in mythology where it's like well that's not as clear but depending on the arguments you could make i could be more or less convinced of that and then you move along and you could say statement about things that are just categorical like the character's name was this and they did this but then of course the arguments you make about what they did it's like well you could say definitively what they did why it can be a little bit harder and it depends on what arguments you put forth in terms of supporting whatever conclusion you make you can be wrong and still be objective yes usually use the amplifier was a broken thermometer it was user what exactly is influenced by biases yeah absolutely doing something and if you're unaware that it's broken you're just i was a not being objective well yeah everybody's got access to different information right everybody's got a different level of understanding about things and that would be the reality right like your mind if your mind your mind can be changed like you can try to uh present a perspective that you think is well founded well argued and new information could change your perspective it could reef re uh it could it could alter your conclusions it's not like the be all and end all that you're trying to make claims that are rooted in the references in the story and that you're trying to do so without letting your biases overly color your uh critiques or praises yeah the uh if if you're clear about how you know i reach these conclusions because of you know abcde you know bits of you know material and references and if i get more you know my my conclusions might change as a result of it then i mean that's the important thing is you're doing the process so are any of you firearm owners yes i have many firearms i'm gonna guess rags and gary are myself ringing in the o and nought that's my guess technically i am not allowed my wife hasn't been so i see uh i have about right now i think i i have to take a recount in my head but probably about 22 firearms i've got i own cool duty that was lots of true very cool you're proud of your eggs thank you i'm uh and i'm and i'm kind of coming in kind of in the mood to get another so who knows who knows i bought a squirtle plushy and squirtle evolves into blastoise so he's got cannons so he's got cannons yeah he does squirtle is man squirtle is just like he's so great like in terms of the start of pokemons squirtle he's just he's such a he's such a good lad in a little blue turtle and whatnot isn't it clever that his name is the joining of squirtle and turtle it's real clever i think it's neat all right well we have yes and then blast and tortoise blastoise yeah even though turtles and tortoises are not the same but that's true they're not the same but he does he does evolve so he does evolve that's true they're saying tortoises are better than turtles more turtle is better right it's just the thing that comes afterward i don't know why you would attach any sort of better or worse when it comes to evolution have you played pokemon well no i know that in the poke well i mean it depends maybe this is you see we're talking about subjectivity more like maybe you subjectively look at when it when the uh no they are better i don't know i genuinely don't know if you know this the stats go up you should if you deny an evolution you lose out on stats the numbers the numbers not necessarily you do yeah being higher i mean what if you value the fact that squirtle knows tackle and i can't remember there are you can you can maintain when you went to there are times when you want to delay evolution for statistical reasons um i think the well i think the example that comes to my i forget there was it's been so long since i was kind of in the know on pokemon but there are some there's some pokemon that if you hold on to their early evolutions for longer they can learn certain moves that they otherwise wouldn't have learned at higher levels or things about nature um but i can't remember but yeah generally you do want to you do want to evolve them yeah it's kind of a part of the progression stuff i will show that that's up to you ultimately it's your choice yeah and and there is an element of i mean who who really evolves their Pikachu under Raichu oh fuck that no yeah yeah uh i don't know Raichu is all right he's oh he's fine you know what that summarizes it doesn't it Raichu is all right Raichu is all right Raichu is like the forgotten pokemon he can't yeah well because even Pichu's got more of a uh representation yeah you're right because people love Pikachu and they want they don't want to lose their Pikachu to become Raichu plus because remember don't isn't it when you have Pikachu in your party it follows behind your character and i think if you evolve it into a Raichu does it go into the pokeball now so it doesn't follow you you'd be talking about i don't remember any of the games where your pokemon is like sitting there by your side walking along well yeah what like Pikachu follows yeah Pikachu i hate Pikachu hates pokeballs in which one though yellow all of them as far as i know i know in yellow then you have no one follows you um but i maybe i'm misremembering but i know like yellow version that was one of the things you always you had a Pikachu to follow you because Pikachu doesn't like being in a pokeball in yellow okay gary what's your opinion on pokemon what's your opinion on evolution i personally deny it in all of its forms it is a bastardization of science and it is completely a biblical of course by stance on that's pretty hard how do you feel about it i think coming out of the trees was a bad idea we were happier up there it was we didn't have to sweat so much up there yeah i was too old for pokemon 20 years ago so that's fair you know it's best you just avoid it anyway come on it's nearly 30 years old you know because i don't want to put them all because i'm a completist and i wouldn't be able to too many now i gotta catch them all except i don't think you can transfer your pokedex into the new ones fully so which upset a lot of people i remember yeah there are people who've been collecting and moving their their collections over for every 20 years yeah and then it stopped it's like oh it'd be too hard to like make the assets it's like guys you like pokemon company and game freak like you knew games on 10 million copies in three days okay like you have to make a front pixel model a back pixel model not well that's 3d now yeah so oh all right i guess i mean let's get real they're not that detailed like the most profitable uh i think they're legitimately the most profitable ip like ever it's i think this this came up during one of your streams and yes that's right um yep it's it's in terms of video games i think the only one that's made more money is mario and even then that might not be the case anymore um oh wow yeah so it is the third best selling it is one of the highest grossing media franchises of all time wikipedia says it's number wow we need to poo is number one apparently that fucking bear now pokemon 92.121 i just googled it because you know google always tells the truth 92.121 billion hello okay it's number two at 80.026 billion then we need to poo we need the freaking poo no way well when are the poos being around since like 1924 yeah 1924 so i guess it's that yeah isn't the um copyright's running out on him right these are public domain now yay at least i think of the united states i don't know about in the uk because finally i've been waiting to make some fanfic of poo put him on some adventures too oh yeah can go hot i know what you mean i know what you mean you don't even have to say it brother so when we're talking about paladins then shad said shad would probably just be a fighter if any of them were paladin it'd be odin the odin from fight of night tights i believe well yeah i mean a lot of people would pick paladin paladins kind of fun get magical powers for gods yeah absolutely especially if you go with uh i think i guess we were talking it was it during the stream or before the stream we were kind of talking about this this was what's the referring to i suppose beginning i guess it wouldn't be very much of a coincidence yeah but oh yeah you absolutely can really good role play potential hold on guys i just need to go to the bathroom and they follow up with i'm back thanks for waiting oh yeah no problem yeah we wait for you well the sun is a myth all hail giant space heater true irie day ball that's what i called it see like the the wire and the plug come off it sometimes they don't cover it up that well this enormous socket in earth that it plugs into to get the power yeah i mean i'm i'm just glad that our our illuminati overlords you know turn it on every day for us to you know keep the crops growing and you know energy for the planet getting bombarded by ads calling Wakanda forever number one movie in the world which both annoys me and makes me wonder if these are ever just straight up lies uh well it would be make it would be like number one in the box office those weeks and that's the claim to be number one movie in the world nothing's competing with Wakanda forever right now right there's nothing even well not not any like massive movies i guess black adam was kind of for a little while but black adam's already on digital so they just happened a variety just came out and said uh Wakanda forever had this 60 million dollar weekend what they're not mentioning is it's the holidays here in the states we have a thanksgiving right it's like five days so they're counting it's a five day weekend oh that really that's yeah that's sure that's not legal i can't well i guess ultimately the the question is like if it beats the first film and it looks like the answer is actually going to be no it's not um and that if it's actually even going to cross a billion is is uh maybe who knows very iffy which uh that's surprising actually i i thought it would clear a billion hey can't wait to watch this live sadly uh they have to do it after work personally i think the show is a six out of ten lots of great moments but almost every episode has one moment that dips into post season four quality and almost season eight yeah uh i don't know about that no i'll happily concede on the re-re-re-release moment all right but yeah that episode is it stands out yeah other than that the biggest long-running issue with the show is i don't think it this is somewhat swaged by being fantasy but i don't think it really understands how medieval society works but that's a little bit yeah too many modernisms and even all from the book right they amped up the violence like at the tourney you know uh which certainly happened but there was a lot of uh a lot of a lot of uh sons uh sons of high lords who were getting their faces bashed in that just wouldn't go down yeah that's not flying with anyone i yeah i that one doesn't work with me by by the time you're seeing tournaments like that someone dying is a very unfortunate accident because that guy's daddy is very important he probably wanted that sun for something you know yeah maybe uh verserys best character yeah yeah yeah probably pretty cool i rewatched slash binged it and it was even better yeah i think it actually improves on a rewatch there's lots of stuff you can see building ahead of when it pays off fitting that the series the most powerful moment wasn't for power politics but in defense of his daughter yeah it's for his family and this we really cared about especially just as a dad yeah that's that's what you want your most powerful moment to be um god of war ragnarok has been a five course meal for my soul fair enough yeah i think a lot of people are very inspired by the story lie did that game not to mention i had several messages about like people talking about the relationship with their sort of father uh as a result of that game making them feel a lot about it which makes complete sense the game is about a lot of things we're going to talk about it next week it's going to go long i'm excited it looks fun great i would be horrible at it but it looks fun don't worry they have a easy mode don't do it easy mode doesn't help me i am so inept you'll find out we'll see where do they keep vega so around vegas like i'm assuming in if they talk about king's landing specifically um i don't know if they go whatever i don't even know if it can fit in the dragon pit is it big enough they mentioned it earlier in the season that he can't that she goes wherever the fuck she wants they go yeah they go just chills out wherever uh hey moeller fringy and high rags hello hey yo glad to see a hot d e fap amond is my fave thanks for all the content been watching since the beginning hope wolf is well checking it out we've got a lot of people who were desperate to hear our our e fap collective thoughts on on house the dragon and it is done now we actually post that part so we did it everybody excellent um they second oh and what do they do with a huge dead dragon's remains i was thinking about this surely they cut it up because it'd be really valuable pieces in there right uh so it probably depends on who finds it if it's random people they would probably take the scales and stuff and yeah because it's probably incredibly valuable um if it was some some of the authorities they would probably give it back over to the people for i guess they have some kind of a burial process or something like that i would assume but it probably depends on who finds it which is likely going to be some guy and uh yeah if it was me and i came across them i at least you know nicks some scales off that thing and take it with me because that is a lot of money i'm sure the maesters cut it up but yeah george has never talked about that i don't think i say i wonder if there's any royal chart or anything relating to what should be done with dragon remains should that ever happen do you think they would treat it like a targaryen funeral and burn it but i'd still think the maesters would want dragon scales some of the blood and teeth right i could see that yeah yeah i imagine the targaryens would fairly jealously hoard rights to anything dragon related well that you know bellarian skulls like that's that survives all the way up to game of thrones right i'm not sure what entirely its fate would be but pretty cool skull you don't want to keep it until they shoot an arrow through it oh yeah fuck we don't talk about season eight what a good show how do you shoot an arrow through a dragon skull oh it's not it's uh balusters oh okay well that that's just ruining a really cool you know decoration that's just not chunks way at all there's a bit of a tangent but it looks like people are getting their plushies they're they're they're making their way out there you're right oh very good very yeah i've seen a couple of pictures on twitter they got the little fringo oh my god which is neat so yeah it looks like those will be coming soon which is very cool thank uh what is your full opinion on the death of the author i usually take the author as the authority like ray bradbury saying fahrenheit 451 is about tv making people morons and not government censorship uh we well i mean we we covered this with the rings of power stuff we were like if uh we treat the author as another source of information they are more than likely going to have more insight than most people but at the same time they have to be in a position where we can deny them their interpretation they can be insane sometimes they can get it wrong or they can create something that is totally different from what they intended textual references are really cool it turns out yes i don't like it yeah you know what my work was actually about all this crazy shit that you can't see in there at all and it's like oh oh i don't believe we just talked about it with house the dragon but we listed the people who made this talk about it it's like no no no no shush shush shush shush okay no wait wait good you keep your interpretation to yourself that's fine like i'm just the author's right to say that i don't know bloodborne is about a penguin on a chair is dependent on you know bloodborne being about a penguin on a chair which i don't think it is so yeah and then you know the other side of the argument is of course when a really experienced author with their work tells you a lot about the inner workings and references all of it and says what they were going for it's like yeah that's worth taking all into account go for it they'll often have a lot of insight about their own works they made them after all they exactly sometimes they critically misunderstand their and work though it's really sometimes i don't hate it when that happens yeah there's always some nerd on reddit who knows your lore better than you do though yeah probably mules for your every time mollus says benedic cumberbatch supercut made me wonder if those are ad libs um yeah a lot of them were in terms of just coming up with them on the spot but i'm gonna be honest with you i don't think they were particularly impressive they were just kind of funny it's you know like they're not hard you just sort of say a bunch of stupid shit right you just go yep yeah like when hit a guy hide of there except that was written that was probably written down was printed on paper that was handed out to these actors to read uh king visaries is a very tasty man rags 2022 you all right yeah i don't think i said that uh psa scott schaefer established titles is a scam what i hear because i've seen those sponsorships and videos every once in a while oh this i don't know this is the trees thing is it although the yeah something about this company has this land in scotland and you buy like a one foot by one foot area so that technically you could say you're a lord and is it all bullshit it was oh man well sorry for all those people who paid to be lords i guess i don't know how to suck it's it's a cool idea but instead you just have to go online and like take a class and become a reverend that's that's your backup go go to some online school and just become a reverend honestly just call yourself a lord anyway i did that so long ago isn't that the earth church or something help me out there's plenty there's probably plenty of places that you could do it they're just accredited enough to where you could call yourself and it's like if you're a doctor of some bullshit thing and you could technically be a doctor or something like that which isn't cool because doctor has a sort of like because you know being a reverend is like i could i would say that i was a reverend as a joke by like going online taking a quick little class getting certified and i'm officially a reverend like i would do that but i wouldn't pass myself off as a doctor there's i actually kind of really that's a that's one i wouldn't you know that see it as a different kind of prestige i seem to recall you having an avatar with a little doctor outfit on at some point so yeah i'm a doctor no yeah i wouldn't pretend to be a doctor but i am one yeah i'm a doctor doctor rags i'd never pretend to uh to not be to or to be one of course is all totally legit i'll show you the picture later it's i've got a photograph of it so they they want us to read this out all right let's do it you got it starts with me um and i say i will kill rags the dog of war war oh fringy's muted theo do your best fringy door oh geez uh no i gotta go fringy you conspire against me bark that's probably good enough the thing is the one thing they didn't get from this recording is for you say no which there's about thousands of examples online so you should be okay for that good god of war reference um wings quote of the day if i could pick any job what would it be no job i'd wake up and sleep all day sleep all day watch some tv and go back to sleep sounds like you have to respect that kind of you have to respect that kind of drive and motivation in life i yeah he's a competitive sleeper he truly is a renaissance man i just like the idea of like ah there i've woken up now to sleep fills out a little like note of paper like okay what's on the schedule sleep there you go good my favorite uh bonus quote i hate the mcdonald's made the 20 piece nugget eight dollars that's unreasonable 20 piece not 20 piece 20 nuggets for eight bucks well you know California i guess it depends on how good the nuggets are i'm supposed to i mean 20 that's like what that's two and a half bucks a nugget well two and a half nuggets a buck your story is two and a half nugget a buck sorry so that means each nugget is concerningly cheap so i just stepped out for a second right one and one is what is this dialogue they just wanted you to say no oh but okay oh but how it's pretty straightforward yeah so close you keep saying no like yeah i'm trying to get a read on the script and the character that i'm trying to embody it's it meant to be like a very passionate nor is it meant to be a motivation for the acting really you get to really embrace the role in the way that you see this character yeah well i'm just trying to figure out because i see you conspire against me which is a little credo slide and so i'm wondering if that's i'm just trying to figure out no are you happy with that you happy you got what you wanted i know i think that was pretty great rags doesn't seem happy with it i'm sorry i'm gonna do it again i yeah one more time and they'll have two options to choose from how do i say no fringy 2022 in the chat i'm just trying to figure out what this all right no there you go now you got a nice that was pretty good i like that one yeah a lot of that variety between those two it was a very classic no pretty cool i figured i would give them some options there yeah all right yeah i'm getting coffee i'll be back in a minute oh my friends and i like this show and i think it's good but it's frequent for our conversation to devolve into something along the lines of why is the prisoner choosing bran as king or she so she's just lawnmowering the city huh yeah it goes back to season eight sometimes unfortunately season eight is uh pretty funny it is really dumb funny hi rags hello anyway you guys could get sofia now it's on for the ragnarok stream just to have a wider range of views of the game thanks for the fun stream don't worry we're already getting stacked for that stream and we have theo right here you got to represent hatred hello you got to be the one that's like i hate all of it it's all really bad yep everything about it is terrible that's my opinion we did actually do someone in my stream who said please bring theo on for it otherwise it'll be a circle jerk and i was like hey i'm i'm the token hater now got that like after elden ring i'm the token even though all of us were very critical of elden rig in that stream i think the base does a poisoning the king making him weak a conspiracy with the high towers so they can control the crown both come from old town i think that's possible i wouldn't i wouldn't uh just from going from the show i don't know if there's more information in the book as to whether or not that's a thing but i could see that being a thing they the one reference i think that's worth keeping in mind in the show is when a maester that's new offers a particular point of like healing and the grandmasters like no no no no no no we're not doing that like hmm that's uh i've seen gliders and alt swiftx talk a lot about this grand maester conspiracy thing yeah that really came forward in uh a dance with dragons with a combination yeah it was like one uh there was a conversation where one lady uh did not like them and then later on at the end an actual grand maester says says to uh sam why do you think uh galler valiant dragon slayers killed all the dragons it was that mean i'm paraphrasing it was the maesters so uh that's where that comes from but people were thinking there was a theory before uh there's theories like people have dissected this book so much that the theories a lot of the theories ended up being correct or george just picked them up on the way not really sure how that way is we i could imagine george probably read someone was like whoa that's great yeah let's do that that's really that works really well i wouldn't even blame a writer for that if they've managed to make an intricate world they didn't expect how something to slaughter together is like well it doesn't ruin everything i suppose you can implement uh do you all think that the failure of the rings of power will be big enough to disabuse corporations that woke shows will work if you throw enough money at said show also high-rack hello no i'm part so yeah so first off rings of power it's only wokeness really comes from a very diverse cast which is weird given the world but once you see past that it's it's not it's not woke well the vast majority of the issues in that show is just incredibly it's just shit writing badly written yeah badly and i think people conflate the word woke with and that's fine because it's easier to say than intersectional which is purely what that show is uh trying to erase gender norms and make a guy lad reel and have at your actor sitting you know with their legs so wide they could give birth to a balrog so like that's just hot goes in the fire i don't know if it's not the latest promo picture i tweeted it a couple days ago it looks like desperate housewives it's all the it's all the female actresses from they're all in one the one who plays female sam is like front and center with her legs just practically in the splits it's hilarious it's freaking hilarious how clueless they are but uh not woke intersectional well uh i guess what i assume rags again that is that if their goals had nothing to do with anything which it basically like it's so incompetently done they could have achieved what they were going for way better but they didn't even do that yeah and you know how i mean you see like when it comes to like the bat woman's a good example right it never did well and they kept doubling down and doubling down on it and it got worse and worse and they just still they just kept going so it seems like a lot of people until they were buying crush they never want to they never want to pull back it seems that especially with these writers and directors who aren't paying for it they really they i guess a lot of them would rather keep going knowing the show will fail without or instead of toning that sort of thing down i think two is probably going to be just as battle with season one but season three is the one i'll be curious about in two changes for rings of power yeah season two might have some band-aids on it if that it that's probably the most they'll do is having some band-aids on it just because you know how much can you change at that stage but i yeah i think moller and fringy were right when they said season three probably we're gonna be seeing the biggest changes if they're going to do it and you might think of course they'll change it i mean look at you know basic logic but that is definitely not something that's guaranteed it's very possible the show runners or someone says yeah um but you know how you know how these things can go it's i i i would imagine they would i don't know it's tough to imagine what they do because i mean i wouldn't have done this in the first place so right and by making changes you're meaning fault oh yeah don't like to do that problem which means you're probably gonna get fired so they're gonna what you mentioned earlier is they uh the the bean counters the bankers these you know the board members don't watch any of the shit they have no idea they have no idea what fandom is so they're gonna accept whatever the people working on the show tell them and they're gonna oh everything's fine look at the minutes watched they'll skew the data to make it look like they had a success and that's why we keep getting such crap now because there's no measurable way to tell like what's a flop or not it unless you're just on the absolute inside amazon but i think it's pretty you know i think it's an objective truth at this point that that show did not bring in the subscribers needed to pay a billion dollars to cover a billion freaking dollars just from its quality it was never gonna like nobody's gonna get passionate enough about it yeah it just wasn't yeah even like i said even people who like it they struggle to talk about character journeys in it they really do because it's just so little talk about meanwhile like we spent what five hours talking about the characters one by one yeah and this wasn't even an episode by episode breakdown because if we did if we did like the reverse quality version of what we did for rings of power we'd be here for many well it'd be like arcane it'd be multiple streams pretty much yeah yeah uh there is a video yeah just i want to i want to go on too long gary you you need to escape the worlds of the living as as others have previously so i want to give you the chance to jump out thanks for inviting me it was a pleasure to be here i love talking about house of the dragon with you all well yeah because this is like the epilogue and it'll be back someday and we'll we'll dodge up the machine all over again to talk about hopefully it's at least as good a season one hopefully i'm i'm just glad i can look forward to it yeah something to look forward to i didn't think that was gonna happen so yeah thanks guys um before you go do you want to feel plushy is going right that's what's happening oh yeah oh yeah oh like that erotic i mean well this is good proof yeah oh dude is it called wizard plush yes it may be called neurotic plushy look just to let people know i don't know uh i think it's neurotic wizard plush but it's fine i i'm very happy with everything oh you should be mad look at it it's such a oh yeah if you watch yeah if you if you type in neurotic it does it does pop up yes that does look good look at you that's that's great i have already ordered my my wait you can stand them up or is that just for a promo i assume that's just for the image okay i didn't know if i had a third leg down there or something or if it's well i don't know i'll tripod the tan here uh so we'll get that gary that looks great yeah you also have um if you buy this along with a hotdog man as plush which is right here you get yourself 10% off hot dog normally normally i typed that into my browser for unrelated reasons but let me see it filled out something else isn't it hot dogs in your area here it is hot dog man as plush look at him go it's great yeah and i can see a wizard and a hotdog feels right feels like a combination that makes sense we're gonna hotdog jeremy was supposed to be in there but uh he and i had a little trouble figuring out the emails because you know we're done that's what i think that's what i think that's what happened to me it was the the format of like approving stuff and the email thing was it kind of confused me a bit too so but yeah let me add uh let me get these yeah and if i get them together and i get a yeah yeah yeah takes takes the plushy family is growing got my whole little corner filled with them and yeah i got i got me fringy you and as on the way as well i can just i'll put him i'll put i get all my plushies set together and i'll put them in the on the dashboard of my miata and i'm just gonna go pick up all the babes even one at a time so let's awesome them off and to fight them off and i can't wait to fight to be the one the only one that i could take with me yeah uh and thanks to you guys for help helping make this happen so i appreciate that and i appreciate you all in the chat and i'll go with this because somebody asked in the in the chat how many days has it been since the release of a dance with dragon it's been 4155 days not many not many just around the corner and when it is you're gonna do like would you do it like a book review video or absolutely of course immediately i'll probably read it in a couple days and uh yeah it'll happen if it happens all right thank you very much for jumping on with us and i'll catch you next tuesday presumably you say ciao bye bye see you later later on dude do you guys do you guys do because i guess i'm the only american here now you guys know the see you later alligator and then your person says in a while crocodile yeah you ever heard of that yeah all right that was curious enough yeah we talked about the simultaneous sleeve or simultaneously thing too so it's one of those things hey shad do you study italian or german longsword or both i don't imagine both the i feel like he's the kind of guy would want to look into all of the world's swords to see which ones are the darkest and coolest maybe he has videos on him i think an australian longsword i don't know what that looks like made from the blood of koala bears apparently it's sharp sharp blood so an article in some rag talking about how the night king may return in the snow hbo series i'm thinking it's going to be a redo of the long night i've heard rumors about that too uh it's just funny that's hilarious they feel that return it up and just end game do you think they feel that his his death and that whole shit was so wasted that they could like they just could they're just going to do it again yeah maybe you could say that yeah that's an interesting idea that being the case just makes the idea of a game of thrones remake seem more inevitable to me yeah uh it's so unfit because everybody recognizes this is an emperor has no fucking closed situations like we all agree the last season was shit redo it just redo it again yeah i know you don't want to do that but just do it you canonize the fuck out of that stupid thing you made and redo it get someone who cares i beg you all the actors are still around it won't be for much longer well i say that as if several of them are old i think they are well i guess it might be more so a matter of they'll move on to different projects oh yeah they'll be like i don't fucking do that shit again i i'm trying to you know make a name for myself and other things like oh uh to me the show is about uncertainty auto can't be blamed for looking out for number one ultimately it's the king's uncertainty that wastes decades all started because damon now that he's mature the problems taken life of their own uh the show is about uncertainty um i wouldn't know that the problems are really created by uncertainty rather a lot of the problems in the show are created by a certainty of a certain course of action that everyone seems to have locked themselves into yeah you could argue he disinherits damon that is a decision made in stone it's done and he commits to ranira being the air right up and well i say right until he dies he still commits to it post being dead it's just that uh his words are interpreted once they're committed to ranira and then once auto is back in adolescence married to beserries everyone's just committed to okay this is going to come to a head when he kicks the bucket yeah what do you think of the final evolutions of the new pokemon startups meows karada skeladesh and wagyu val i don't know what they look like i may as well have just said flew beef levy and fimble wimble um are those actually the final evolutions i uh that's what they say i don't know no i'm i'm just because i'm looking at the pictures it's like are they they they must be i think this is it this is the the final link i'm link them you link them yeah hold on yeah because i uh gotta say i'm i'm not a big fan oh yeah i'm not a big fan oh come on oh well what am i looking at are these the new ones dude this is so they're the final evolutions of these of these this reminds me of like these are shit like lame spore monsters what this like viva pinata what the fuck look at where they start and look at where they end up that's i don't like they started so strong they started really strong these are really what happened to the cat oh my god i'm parking it what did that's i guess that's what the cat turns into cats are weird oh no that's not yeah because like they're so much better in this tata form this is what we're talking about this is the advantage of um of not evolving your pokemon then you got to keep them wonderful well the thing is nice like do you want to keep your boy squirtle or you want to turn him into blastoise it's like blastoise is cool yeah usually there's usually a cute cool change over isn't it pretty much yeah like like uh venus or white hold on yeah white venus or the final yeah venus or is the final i'm i'm okay with someone saying venus or is cool that's fine you know you can venus or is cool did they see i think he's got the big hyperbean flower in the back of him yeah he's a big chunky boy who fuck you up but these these ones just look goofy to me uh yeah i want yeah what happened to the duck what is that i don't duck turned into sassy dancer duck yeah i don't know why do they insist on making them like anthropomorphic they're also just lame they just like so look at the expressions so what do you what do you think about the legendaries um hold on yeah i get a picture as far as as as far as i can tell of the legendaries there is one that is way more popular than the other oh boy oh the is it two legendaries one oh well that's always two legendaries right you've got one for each of the versions of the game that are well what about the legendary dogs uh oh well yeah that there have been those ones but i don't know what is the case for this so they're the oh uh can you i guess the one i'm designed yeah these look terrible i should never take me more than a few seconds to understand the creature yeah which which one do you think is more popular left so i as i understand it it's the one on the right is the really popular one my answer was going to be i don't know which one's what that thing's a yugioh card well so i as i understand it one of the big things is that they turn into motorbikes you can turn them into motorcycles now i see the wheel the wheel and drive them around yeah oh no you give five d's so that's that's what they that's what they do if you're driving motorcycles here we be what i'm hearing about this new one is that if you take away all the bugs and all of the technical problems it's actually one of the better pokemon games that's what people have said that's really funny though in isolation if you take away all its problems everything that's wrong with it on a technical level that it's the best that is one of the best pokemon games i always hear that black and white was one of the really good ones too but that was when i stopped i dropped off after pearl diamond bikes i don't know because so you can drive them around in the big open world but i don't get that either though yeah you used to have bikes remember in pokemon you just had a bike but you were right around now it's like the pokemon was also your vehicle it just in case you weren't enslaving it at all i can't get over this they're bikes they are bikes that's right they're bikes wait i need to find a picture of them as you probably should because my mental images are i'm having trouble i can see the wheels you know like there's one wheel on each of them wait these two are supposed to be bicycles they turn into bikes have four fucking legs you don't need to give them wheels what is this horseshit they don't know you could just have them run real fast oh no it's not good oh that's just god damn what a shame oh are they unlocked from the start of the game what kind of legendary is that do you get the right at the start what do you mean well maybe someone in chat can help out it's like are they unlocked from the start of the game like you get them right at the beginning i can't be right because then you can't have something that's legendary that you give to every player something i really liked about kaiyoga and grudon um from sapphire and ruby was that they seemed very like mythical um they seem like ancient creatures that have been around for a long time like it you can't prove that motorcycles aren't that old what's all i was gonna say is that i i don't know it's uh you can't use them in battle you can't okay it's literally just a mode of transportation uh really it's got if you can't use it for battle like you can you breed with it not you can you breed it and like use the children to fight i guess does the game have like oh my goodness god out of context what you just said can you breed them and make the children fight i mean that's what pokemon is it's i don't make the rules i've just been sent this fight the discord oh my god oh they just want to make they fly now so they're they're legendary pokemon who despite having four limbs also flies and also have wings as well what the fuck is happening this has modern games written all over it what are they thinking failed you have failed your task i should never be looking at something and saying it's a yugioh card but it's never a positive comparison it would it's the only thing it's missing to be a yugioh card is a is an uh an irrelevant abstract background yes and maybe like some orbs just randomly like dotted throughout the design and the flavor texts that make it seem far more powerful than the measly 750 attack that it actually has can suck the soul out of any enemy three stars 750 attack 400 defense the landscape looks horrible yeah one of the few game franchises will actually criticize for low fidelity graphics it's pokemon should look better than this they should have gone with a really cool ultra they should have kept that that wonderful 2d style and just a modern version of it yeah like a cool cell shaded or a super you know octopath traveler i only know the like the look of it but something like that where it's 2d but everything like the everything looks wonderful it like it keeps that and it embraces it instead of this 3d kind of well either i'm surprised that they didn't because like breath of the wild is is a really good example of essentially carving out like a unique art style it's got the cell shading going on it's like a painting sort of comes to life which is really cool whereas here i don't know just kind of looks a bit it looks a little bit incoherent almost like the background for a little too tech plane they're just yeah they're really detail meanwhile you've got kind of like cartoon characters sort of pokemon and people running around as well i don't know what it is it's just it doesn't look good it's trying to get to um real in a way if that makes sense it's like they're not put they don't have the power to realize that nor but there are games on switch that look better than this yeah i don't know why it looks like this i'm just saying like the franchise makes too much money you know like it makes too much money for that to be like the level that you get out of it like the switch is capable super mario odyssey is a very nice looking game that's a real nice looking game even though it's on the switch breath of the wild looks really good there are a lot of good looking games on switch i don't know maybe it'll be the next one they need more development time though clearly yeah or they need to like it go back to that 2d style and just really do something wonderfully stylized with it that will last forever and will always good i'm full of the meme go back to 2d remember the meme that you sent me the the miyamoto quote but instead it's about pokemon ah yeah the late game is eventually good a bad game we'll sell tell me all your copies well yeah it's um the pokemon they buy my games and have taste skull and violet is the fastest selling pokemon game it's the fastest selling nintendo game and it is the fastest selling exclusive like console exclusive ever oh shit really because god of war ragnarok sold about five million copies i think in the first week or the first five days 10 million in three days was what scarlet and violet got there's in fact not only is that really good not only is that the best for a console exclusive that's better than most games like on multiple platforms that that's like i can't remember how many copies grand theft auto five sold in like the first week but it was it was around that around that ballpark so it's tremendously successful um let me see yeah i have to it's sold estimating that take ginnis world record certified that claim and declare gta 5 the best selling game in any 24 hour period estimating that take two moved more than 11 million copies in its first day on sale okay so in three days that's pretty pretty close up there it says in the first five days gta 5 sold 16 million units so pokemon doing real well considering it's on one system considering it's pokemon and it looks like this well i mean it's pokemon right but but it seems to be another thing is that the nintendo switch has bolstered every single nintendo franchise every single one has had its like best performing game on that system including more of the niche ones like metroid dread i believe was the fastest selling metroid game curbie in the forgotten land is the fastest selling curbie game um and of course it even applies to their big hitters like breath of the wild odyssey smash brothers ultimate mario mario kart 8 deluxe is like the best selling mario kart game sold like 50 million copies the attack rate the nintendo gets for their games to their system is unparalleled nobody else gets those numbers nobody got to sell them oh okay sorry that was a huge tangent so anyway yeah whole skirts time skips hoping we kind of forget i just think that you could have uh he has like a stubble beard going on he could have like removed it fully for the first era and then added that on the second one and maybe change the length of his hair more significantly add a add some maybe a gray streak or something just just a little bit of something i don't know and maybe maybe there was some subtle changes to age them up and i didn't see them but um yeah i don't know it's it was just a little bit of a stood in contrast to a lot of changes other characters are going through we're just like oh it's you and you look exactly the same that's fine it was supposed to believe he's early 20s to late 30s and you know he just takes care of himself he looks real good i'm coming to disagree with your people won't bitch about good take on adaptation um okay well they said all quiet on the western front 2022 is the best of the films but people hate it for not being both accurate okay wait i'm pretty sure that our film's gotten pretty sorry if you want to go we're gonna go all the way back to disagree with your people won't bitch about it if it's a good take so this you should know if you've watched enough e-fab that we're fully aware that just being good isn't enough to prevent people from bitching about it especially like we would have defended um people didn't like that the the uh with great power comes great responsibility came out of aunt may instead of uncle ben in the mcu spider-man right so like we think it was really well executed like the reason she told him that and the context of why and all that but like that doesn't change how much people hate the fact that it's not uncle ben's like we're aware of this alongside all kinds of adaptation stuff the context of us saying people won't bitch about it if it's good was more so to do with um like race swapping or missing a couple of details here and there these are things people will forgive if the overall thing is really really good um that seems to be the case for well funnily enough to talk about house the dragon today a lot of people complained that uh you know callus and the valarian house had their race swapped but like nobody gives a shit anymore because of how well executed it was and in terms of like good yeah how good the characters are and stuff so that's what we mean we are staunch defenders a lot of the time of adaptations going like like like a um we even reverse it so we're like why do people complain more about hillhouse they should be because it's though in opposition to the original source so i'm afraid that the reason why i wanted to start there is that you're countering an argument we haven't made if anything i'd agree with your counter being that people will be upset if you go against the source it depends on the way in which you do it um say for example a source has this hero you know character and you adapt it all faithfully except you turn that character into a villain that can be enough to make people be like fuck this like you droid the legacy of this guy that sort of thing even if it was a particularly good story in and of itself or something um and then yeah as free was just saying to follow up i've only heard praise for all quiet on the western front um i know that there's been some but i've seen people outright say that they actually prefer it to the original um that they prefer some of the changes that were made i've heard that um and yeah as for the response to it i've only heard good things i thought it was a pretty good movie so was it because nobody's heard of all read the hillhouse book first of all they have they're out there there's lots of them the book was successful secondly exactly that's our point um but yeah there you go there are major issues in allicent's parenting but the series lack of attention to those kids is also part of their problem i bet my only child jesus to be fair he's not saying that in the sense of i hate my other children i wish they went born sort of thing he's saying it because his mind is falling apart and uh his memory is is he's starting to revert to the older and stronger memories like calling allison emma um and i'm willing to infer that it's because that's where he was happiest as well but um yeah his brain is definitely falling apart especially while being on milk at the poppy that that'll that'll fuck with you um hey rags hello updates on the mando video no no updates on the mando video no i'm not it i will make it one day it's just a matter of i probably want to do stuff um in the meantime and plus i just got this this is actually the first efat from a new computer so i've uh it's gonna move some stuff over and i haven't started working on this pc yet but um i've got a you know a vegas in here and i got my old files and everything so it's just a matter of me um yes sort of getting back into it which won't take long at all i'll be back in the zone pretty quick but there was a good three or so weeks where i where i just wasn't you know having a computer at full steam so because i got this back i mean essentially yesterday for this new computer essentially yesterday you know i you know i'll be enjoying it for a while please go into agons oh wait we did come with that one uh hey miller on a scale ranging from amand to daemon uh how good of an uncle would you describe yourself amand to daemon i don't i'm not really like either of those guys i'm afraid i'm more of a friendly happy uncle who's uh who's chill you know go movies and stuff friendly happy uncle who's chill i don't have the ipatral swords or anything my failings but you know i have a sword but no ipatch do you have a red noodle dragon maybe um off the check i don't have a red noodle dragon do you think if rey ranira i assume asked her dad to annul her marriage with lano it would have worked well he's the one that set that marriage right and it's really important politically i don't think he'd be okay with annuling it uh if we're talking specifically about for series but i'd be interested to see how that conversation would go because i think he'd entertain you know listening to a reasoning and everything but i just don't i i don't know politically speaking he'd want to give it up um it was odd that you said ranira having bastards causes the war on gary's stream especially after agreeing with otto in episode five and three i doubt true bones would ease allison's mind it could even make it worse well so arguably obviously what does it is what he says to allison before he dies but uh i i definitely stand by ranira should know the repercussions of having children with someone who is making it obvious that you have bastards is not a good thing to do this galvanizes things makes you no friends gets everyone upset with you and yeah like it everybody's pushed to polarize on these different sides and then yeah it's just all it's waiting for is a spark a lot of his good scenes came from matt episode one eight and ten not sure do you mean a lot of like he needed matt to matt smith to play off of to have good scenes i hope that's not what they mean i hope not yeah because i i don't think there's a well he wasn't in episode ten though uh this oh right so it must be talking about must be talking about damon maybe we're there for amond no way amond isn't in episode one so when you say a lot of his good scenes came from matt do they mean a lot of damon's good scenes are a result of matt's uh oh well i mean of course right oh sorry they clarified they meant they meant that a lot of his best stuff is stuff that matt was coming up with on the fly oh i see right which makes sense and it was his job doesn't surprise me that he elevated the material he was given uh protector of the realm is a great track it's other one that plays in the foreign room when he walks in because if it is yeah about to be swallowed by the work abyss e-fap on spotify has been a real lifesaver my knees are glass but at least i have you massives in my ears and heart also fringy you should get a goo launcher on your arms similar to similar to i kit claw oh i kit claw i kit claw who what enemy is that from that's a warhammer oh warhammer the enemy he's a scaven oh scaven are cool i like rats i kit claws the mad scientist one of course of course rats rule the night we start at night we're the rats yeah sure but that doesn't cause the war well nothing no one thing causes the war as as you saw it's shad believes art it was probably the like main progenitor of all of it lots of decisions cause lots of points of view and attitudes that cause lots of more decisions and what causes the war is unclear rules regarding succession yeah um weird that he lets hobot hightower call agon second of his name in episode three i don't think you could even call raniera first of her name while the series lives um i don't remember what is this he lets hobot hightower call agon second of his name in episode three and i don't think you could even call raniera first of her name while the series is alive is that offensive to call raniera targaryen the first of her name i thought that just represents how many people in the family line you have the same name with right i would assume so it's because they are not a monarch so until they until they were in monarch they would just be um well it doesn't work quite the same in westeros because they don't have the same thing going but in the real world there'd be like raniera of insert location here that she is from like before king henry the second was king henry the second he was henry of anju well um otto could have forced fed milk of the poppy to the series and told the maesters to hush i think he cares about the series he just had a specific mind about how the kingdom should be run yeah that we were kind of talking about how it's difficult to be definitive about the sort of the 5050 of how much he cared about just the realm and versus how much advancing his own house similar for a lot of characters old town is a hive of heresy that must be destroyed they attacked the throne revolted against uh because of inbreeding and then there's the maester conspiracy um he calls agon not the air first of his name while the series is still alive it's basically treason oh yep is the of his name sort of thing is that what you were saying that that's only applicable to those who were like yeah in line for the i see okay you get that when you become a monarch before that okay now it makes more sense i thought you get that anyway or something but they just don't typically say it interesting yeah that probably should have been we wanted curious to check the scene against see if there's any reaction at all from visaries of any kind um so this is as part there's four of these on the next meme fap would you consider watching chefrilles tlj april fools video from four years ago about the brilliance of the green alien titty milk uh there's no it just goes part one part three part four i don't know part two got got booted by youtube or dot but uh the next one says plus strangely enough it's hilarious compared to the rest of his content and actually contains good satirical criticism of tlj and if not on a meme fap then maybe on an e fap to accompany the next video of his that you cover um i i don't know if you put in the maybe pile we've got a backlog of things i want to cover we've got videos to respond to as well as more it's immediate to break down you know i'm very happy we got house of the dragon done it's uh it's nice it deserves it yeah it does um because it's it's great and now i'm just i'm super excited for next week yes i'm i'm more i would say i've been thinking about it a lot today ragnarok i've been thinking about it anything with sharing with the class i the the problem is it's just it's it's like there are just moments that i'm so eager to get to discuss i uh the the more that i sit on it that one moment in particular like man i kind of adore it i it's it's incredible oh we'll talk about it we that one of many many moments um oh that's that game uh a reddit q&a by arcane writers happened with season two hints guessing you'd know about that yeah yep they dropped some one word hints about the next season in the words war and rubicon all right you're obsessed what does that mean um rubicon is where that means point of no return essentially sorry i mean what does it mean for arcane slash lol oh war uh friggin i think you can guess what war means i think we know what's happening okay let me spell it out so which factions does this involve what is it talking about though there runs on who else right oh i thought we're gonna be involving um like like why so room terror is enormous right we've got all these different yeah so what what kind of stuff i mean i'm expecting more than just war like is that all the go because like i thought we do this that was just the one word and they dropped they did a bunch of other stuff throughout the day a ma okay um i would say that is really a hint though because war and rubicon those both are like yeah i know i know that that's kind of what i'm getting at like i think season one tells us that sure i would agree but i don't know that's what they gave okay uh headry cavill as kregan stark mourning his brother's death and bonding with jace you just get him in whatever get him into anything that's good that man deserves it get him in make him play um the series is ghost comes in around some spooks everybody just so he has a role so you can say he's a part of it all right any way possible replace rainies with him where are we hi fringy moeller and rags hello hello have you all seen detective knight rogue the movie is really bad and you all might get a kick out of it also when you're gonna invite hittle subtleties to the show and he's welcome at any time he has an open invitation he pops in every once in a while whenever you hear something incredibly philosophical that's him that's influence he pokes his head in he goes hello and then he leaves but yeah no i have not seen or heard of detective knight rogue i'm afraid not familiar rags some french guy ate an entire plane in the 70s and didn't die until much later in something else uh i think gliders will be fine with the book i don't know like but just because so yeah there's always some weirdo who get eat like light bulbs and some you know stuff like that i mean raspute and eat poison apparently but let's have that really cool i think of that guy ate a plane so i could eat a book it's like i don't see the connection there this person fell from space and survived so if i jump off a building i'm pretty sure i'll be fine i agree with rags just make sure you're safe with whatever it is you're up to when it comes to eating things that don't typically get eaten that's cool yeah it's the ink that i'm concerned about like if you space it out between a long time sure but like seriously they're not meant to be made and i don't know if there's chemicals in the paper or something so uh great commentary oh thank you i'm glad that you enjoyed it that the sun shines is objective not liking the amount of heat it gives is subjective some even have self-immolation fetishes just look up most art turned activism modern ip's ah i get it self-immoling oh right funny how allison's worries aren't tenfold by episode eight after leno's death her first example of ranira killing someone in her way to get what she wants that is interesting i don't think we get allison's perspective on leno's death the nature of it and what it meant for ranira right we don't see her talking about it as like a thing that she clearly did the benefit sort of it feels like it just faults in with everything else such as the the bastards for lack of a better way of putting it but like for allison i kind of agree with this sentiment it's like isn't it shouldn't she be like holy like i could imagine a scene where her and auto find out and they both like wow she did it she killed him just so that she could uh blah blah blah because of course everyone would immediately or at least allison would immediately point fingers at ranira over that regardless of how etiquette you'd slip on a banana peel and fall into the sea and be like yep ranira put the banana peel there and even if she didn't she wanted it to be there she used her psychic powers probably true um so says digimon of the day is magnadramon here we go magnadramon that just sounds like magnadramon all right that looks like um looks like something i don't like it i mean it's it's a yukioka again let me oh did you paste it okay yeah i mean it's um i don't think the head really fits with the body it was strange too it looks like someone crossed a mutu and a growl life or an arcanine and uh mutu or something it's it's got yeah i mean it's definitely not the worst offender we've seen but it's like three different artists had four different ideas and then they all ended up here yeah that's that's that's how all digimon is gonna say isn't that how it works it's like a random generator for just things and then here's your digimon digimon as much digimon i mean as far as yeah digimon are the champions yeah as far as like i will say this i i don't play magic anymore i used to play it but i will say that i really appreciated a lot of the thematic like the the consistent aesthetics and some sets and things um so like inestron and things like that had these consistent kind of thematics to them and i really appreciated that but when it comes to yugioh and and and digimon it's just like what the fuck's going on such a grab bag of stuff where his magic it's just random shit yeah magic's really good at staying unified within its own aesthetic uh i like that theos the token hypocritical guy that's yeah theo that's like i like that he's just wrong what do i do now no they said specifically hypocritical it wasn't even like your negative or your pessimism no no hypocritical specifically you hypocrite theo the famous hypocrite yeah hold what standard have i you know betrayed well you say you like anime but you don't like god of war ragnarok i don't say that but you know i say you like anime and yet you don't like digimon and yugioh yeah what's that about hey i love yugioh yugioh i love classic yugioh don't get me started on what yugioh used to be versus what it is now fuck that game is fucking hilarious in its current state it used to be so goddamn fun and it it i'll i'll accept that that might be because i was a kid playing it but man early yugioh was fun as fuck to play with people you felt like you were actually fighting another player and you'd whittle their life points down and you'd make it was fun as hell i'd loved early yugioh it was legitimately fun to play and what i see the shit it is now don't even don't even i won't go into it i have before i have just never seen anything that is the strong of an example of power creep absolutely there is no stronger example than yugioh it's absolutely unbelievable yeah you remember ray gecky that destroys all your opponents monsters yeah no one plays it fuck that card it's shit it's like what the hell the hell it's unconditionally destroy all monsters your opponent controls and like no one's interested like nah it's bad monster that's one less card that i can use to make a 12 stage multi combo to win the game before the opponent gets to play it's like if it's like that means you're good that means you've got skill all that works idiots yugioh was it was great in the sense that like i said you you really felt like you were battling another player and these could be long drawn out slugging matches sometimes that were super intense you know but uh i don't know it's i guess it's just changed over time hard games seem to want to cannibalize themselves now because magic has been in a like a tailspin for five years from my understanding i've been out of the magic the gathering scene for quite a while now uh so i don't know i think like the last set that i was buying was it was probably the one i think it was the one after in a strud when that kind of trio wrapped up there was another yeah i got after shortly after that i left i don't know a little bit later than that but yeah from what i i kept following the scene for a while and from what i hear it's just baffling decision after baffling decision and the most recent one is uh thousand pounds randomized proxies for an anniversary collection thing which made everyone upset i didn't quit i don't i don't think i quit because i stopped enjoying it i think i stopped enjoying it like you just sort of i never stopped having fun for the most part but i think i just i was just i think i just got it way into video games and that kind of took over and definitely it's just one of those things you fall out of yeah i have all my cards though so i i mean i've got my pokemon cards my yugioh cards my magic the gathering cards i got my dual masters cards it's all at my uh folk's place in my older room in the closet and uh i i got them i got them they're there dual masters that that was that was a fun game that was that was a fun game in an ideal timeline what are the book adaptations would y'all be interested in seeing also amazon's patriot is a pretty good series um so what book series what i want to see uh televised or turned into a movie adaptation or a show adaptation essentially sure oh i don't know it's been so long since i've read books um and a lot of them have been turned into series there is a part of me they said alternate universes i mean there's a part of me that wants to get a different take on you know maybe lord of the rings or you know something like that but good yeah but good if it can be good i would be interested to see a good but different version uh what about the dictionary ooh yeah yeah yeah characters would be very well spoken i feel like there's just lots of potential data um yeah i don't know i i feel like all the major ones have been given adaptations now and it's all very sad yeah i'm just not the person that's that up maybe people maybe friggin can get it give you an answer uh well i don't have one off the top of my head actually well all right because it's kind of the same as like you said a lot of them have already been done have there any have there been any that have been horrifically butchered that we just need to give a fair chance uh oh well i mean like any good adaptation of any well-loved book series of probably everyone's on board like a wheel of time right is uh oh right because nobody's happy with that one right yeah i heard that's not good hate it yeah i i you're probably a probably a bunch of agatha christie books that are probably really good that you could make some excellent movies out of uh thoughts on novel ai prompt images as art i don't think they're art because i don't think that that we kind of talked about this a little bit when uh on the when destiny was here and we were covering the um uh the weird person's video i forget the name but we were talking about ai stuff it came up briefly and i think that my position was an ai as we have them now is not advanced enough or complex enough to express itself on a personal level so it can't so what it makes isn't art though it can be it might be considered um art or appear to be art uh in much the same way that you could have things that are incidentally you know perceived as beautiful but i don't think we're quite here that uh quite there yet with ai complexity as much as i agree with the idea that it's clearly not the art the ai expressing itself i'm not sure i agree it's not art because of the nature of uh when you construct codes to create images that is technically expression by the person who coded it um so it's difficult in terms of category for how i would decide whether or not it counts as art it's complicated because i do agree that we should gatekeep it to some degree shouldn't just say everything is a thing uh i just don't know how to categorize it properly now i'm assuming the question is more so just i don't know do you have any existential thoughts about it it's just like it's a bit worrying because uh you know it's just like where are we going next when this is already yeah you do want to keep certain things i think within the purview of you know sentient creatures they uh you don't want to have everything done by ai so that all the you know creative must rob in a way especially in drowned out through sheer volume because i mean on ai especially with the speed that they work it's just we have we have a overall cool down on on efap that gets expunged every once in a while of talking about the fundamentals of meaning and art and existence and uh you know still building back up we did it recently okay yeah yeah you gotta give them what time uh some pokémon if you delay evolution can get moves early slash can't learn the moves at all some are really good right also if you move the game to ssd it runs better that's what i heard um i looked at some examples of the as far as i know it runs a whole lot better if you move it to like the internal storage or something like that but i i've only heard of it casually i don't know anything about it so just switch exclusive right so i don't mean so how does the hard drive work on the switch do you get an ssd anahe hd i said i i said i use as if it was an exclusive i said i think so oh i thought you said so because i don't know how the hard drive works but because if you move how do you can you choose where to save can you can you get expansions like an sd card but that's okay okay well that's yeah that that is i guess uh i was about to say a workaround but i mean i don't know does it improve its bugs at that point improve its bugs well you know bugs you have higher quality bugs yeah you know the bugs like when they abruptly destroy your game they do it in a civil way they've improved in the candle the bugs are in your favor maybe that's a high quality bug um well yeah you know fair enough unrelated but has disney made up their purchasing cost for buying star wars i'm really not sure they've made up the 2.4 billion there's more than that wasn't it well it's like i mean surely it's costing them more with more time goes on right like overall it'll uh well i mean of course inflation um i don't know and loans they would have had to yeah of course opportunity cost is a big one what could you have spent that five million dollars on would it have been more profitable and the answer is maybe put it all into like fucking apple stock or something probably would have been better than buying star wars presumably at this point i don't know actually i don't want to be confident well i'll give you an answer here they did make that they did recoup recoup their 4.05 billion dollar investment back in 2018 at the time the four star wars feature films disney has released since 2015 so between 2015 and 2018 they have grossed more than 4.8 billion at the box office and they also make money from taxes and agreements and sales of merchandise apparel and toys making 4.8 billion at the box office doesn't mean that they profited 4.8 billion that's the total no no because theaters get a cut the cuts vary depending on which countries they're in you've got the budget and marketing that you have to factor in um the big thing would have been merchandising probably that was one of the things that i'll probably rely on i thought it was famously they marked that the uh merchandise was like down on an all-time low yeah i'm pretty sure because it was like really high when it started and when it was coming out but then later on you remember like the best-selling toy stars when tfa was being promoted was captain phasma was uh captain phasma and who's buying a captain phasma one now does anyone even know who that is of the general public do you know captain fucking phasma is meanwhile do you know Darth Vader is like yes mm-hmm i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of parents assume storm trooper is a character it's like halo it's like samus's metroid like zelda yeah zelda zelda halo metroid oh uh so this is about the q and a for arcane apparently there were hints about the silk silco vanda flashbacks oh yes apparently we're not done with silco when we haven't seen uh last of him i guess we're gonna see more of his history i really like silco so that's good and you really like silco don't ruin it but i yeah don't do it because it's don't fuck it up you have is pretty damn good um thio thoughts on the new berserk anime and manga it's a new anime i didn't realize they'd made another one that franchise is bugging cursed in terms of adaptations yeah uh the manga um well what with miura you know passing and stuff it's it's not the same that's all there is to really say i always block my cheerlea from evolving can't have it getting too old now i well during the queue while you're reading super chats i i did a quick little google of you know if there's reasons to do it and there's uh there there are reasons to not um evolve it but yeah like they said the whole so they so that they learn moves that they otherwise would never learn from evolving uh some uh some pokemon will lose moves when they evolve so something something something um i mean visceri's general parenting through season one not episode eight well when i gather he was a pretty okay father to ranira up until emma died then he was distant and difficult and then uh he was apparently just not there for a agon and amond even though his death do you remember amon's reaction when he seems to discover that he's dead i thought that implied maybe that amond had a better relationship with the adversaries but i don't know um they didn't really show us and i think all we have left to infer is that he wasn't really around that's good you know a lot of that is going to be due to his health but at the same time what's interesting if you remember he's quite um low power so to speak in episode five and then at the end of it he's like falling over and stuff ten years on yes he's lost the arm his hair is like all fallen out his skin has got no thingy but he's quite um engaged for lack of a better term he's like hey how's everyone doing oh look my kid ah that's great like like he's talking to people and he's walking around it's like oh so he's still you know still capable of doing stuff so yeah um hey rags hello hi hey i was going to say very honestly the man was just depressed like yeah if ever there was a tell the giant sculpture of valeria in his room that's uh well he thinks about it history legacy in his place in it i noticed you mentioned sieve four more than the average person so i assume you play can i interest you in a mod called rfc dawn of civilization an expansion on the original rise and fall mod and this is for what game sorry i was four i haven't listened i haven't played sieve four since uh how many years ago was that i mean it was a first civilization game i played but i i don't i don't play civilization anymore at least i currently don't i'm just into other games and i haven't played sieve four in a long time i do appreciate the recommendations uh though but i'm just i'm not uh i am not into sieve four however one of a some very fond memories of it playing with um my friend henry we would uh we would do hot seat sieve four and we would just while away the afternoons i'd go to his house and we'd play sieve four while just watching random internet videos all y'all the oldies the you know the dr tran and legendary lily pad all that sort of thing we but henry the the eighth that theo was talking about oh he's henry first of his name oh okay oh uh yeah so yeah we had a great we had a lot of fond memories of that yeah they had one of those and i mean this in a good way they had one of those houses that you could all you always knew the smell of um your no it had a good smell i shouldn't call it smell i should call it a like a scent or an aroma but but they that the house many of my friends did i guess but uh as you're when you're a kid and you start going to other people's houses and everything you recognize that a lot of them have their own sort of smell some are faint uh but like i had some friends he lived on the street and their dad smoked and so their their house smelled faintly of smoke all the time and so that was not great or like a roadkill mustard sort of huh i just see a naive reaction to that combination no no no roadkill mustard but oh my best friend growing up he um his mom was uh korean and we're talking korean uh and um true was her name and i assume it still is but it also was too but it's probably still is uh but she would make insanely good food and whenever i went over to his house and she would cook for all of us when we went over there for like sleepovers and stuff all that house smelled heavenly that whole house would just get the that smell of that you know delicious korean food heavenly amazing good memories of being a kid and that puts us uh caught up actually with with uh today's super chance uh okay that's awesome so what i'll do i guess is uh well you know theo do you want to advertise your channel yeah you know stay away i'll make something eventually i think the first time you ever came on the show you're probably like i might make a dmc5 video and that's that's the update right yeah i want to and then i keep going back and forth on how i want to do it and then you know you lose confidence in the project and start something else and then you know well being aware of that being the process means you can overcome it correct yeah thank you that's awesome yeah great so we're expecting it next week is thing next week uh tomorrow you know five minutes from now well you know awesome this great timing because we're just about to end so they could go over there and watch that now that's awesome so i will say for the people who are like i would like to see a video of theo talking about video games well next week theo will be talking about god of war playing your pitchforks and torches the only thing is oil the plan is to talk pretty much exclusively about the story because we're gonna split it into two e-faps story and mechanics so you have to wait until the week after before you get like that that part but hey uh i got loads of prep to do i'm planning on this being a little bit more complicated than just a simple we talk about the game i'm gonna be getting some resources together because this is a game that deserves some respect to runes and references um i say that as though i didn't do it for house the dragon that was a fun rewatch lots of notes taken i think it we managed to squeeze it all into five hours phenomenal i like that uh you can't make memes anymore about us forgetting house the dragon you can continue to do it for a moon night that he's just a little scound in the corner like but yes uh what else do i say uh so that that's the plan um so eagle eyed viewers will notice i have named this 214 even though we already had e-fap 214 but the thing is uh computer troubles both on my end fringies and and rags and the different portions of time has made it difficult for us to sync up and be able to record the thing i was going to put on the end of it so that's still happening and i'm just going to rename it and put it out at a different time in terms of numbering um it'll just be the first half will be old second half will be new and um oh gosh we are inching very close to crimbus as well so crimbo hey we're still ahead of e-fap episodes from what i understand so if we did next week an episode week after an episode week after that i can probably drop the the one we're cooking in terms of the the other 214 one and then the week after that we'll probably drop an offline recorded christmas one because that'll be christmas day where i think all of us will be busy but if we can get a christmas one recorded like a week before or a free day we'll try maybe watch a christmas movie and talk about it something like that so that anybody who's um you know got a bit of a free day for whatever reason on christmas you can have some company with the old e-fap lads so that'll probably be the plan online online offline offline uh for over the next four weeks and then maybe the week after that oh that's new years dammit i'm gonna have to fucking sort some some schnizzles out you know we'll figure it out anyway we will we're continues on assorted projects um rags frames anything you guys wanted to mention no i guess um yeah i just uh like i said new computer still kind of putting everything on there but i'm not in a super rush to do that uh just because i haven't had one to really enjoy in a while in fact i downloaded a number of stuff uh during the e-fap that i just needed to put on here uh bup bup bup i don't really have anything uh that's super planned uh so i'm just kind of i'm getting new assets for things uh getting nice looking stuff i got ideas for what to do for videos and the dog bite stuff and i guess but i guess nothing super set in stone right now uh but don't expect any more long gaps like we had before oh and yeah we'll figure out andor at some point maybe we'll make it so that the christmas episode is talking about andor or something i'm not sure i'll have to get them in that'll be sort out at some point gentle scissors and like yeah but yes um until the next stream of whatever kind that may be or video uh thank you for joining us thank you for the kind donations and more absolutely we really appreciate that that's the kind of that's what let me help me get this computer so you know we did you know thank you very much for that we'll catch ups on the way as well as more coverage in general like i said next is god of war ragnarok so thank you all for keeping this company have a good night now see you later one thanks for coming by see you next week to deliver one you know hi bye