 Welcome back, and it's time for our very first hot topic. President Bola Tinobu is set to meet U.S. President Joe Biden on an exclusive invitation. The DOS meeting may be on the sidelines of the United Nations Assembly in New York, scheduled to run from September 18th to 26th, 2023. It's starting today, actually, so he's in the U.S. for this meeting. We've been joined by Abraham Great, Public Affairs Analyst. Good morning to you, Mr. Great. You're nice to be with you once again. Glad to have you join us, and he's joining us from Canada this morning. Now, Mr. Great, U.S. Assistant Secretary for African Affairs Molly Fee did reveal that President Timut was the only leader in Africa so invited for the special interface with the U.S. leader. Clearly, it will be discussed in Niger. The U.S. and France were seeing putting pressure on ECOWAS to use military force to reinstate the oyster president, Mohammed Bazoum. How do you see this meeting going? Do you see Niger being the main reason for this special exclusive invitation to President Tunibu? I wouldn't think that is the main reason for the invitation. Nigeria in itself has a lot more reason to be in America. America being one of the major bilateral partners of Nigeria. It will be the first since its inauguration as president. President Tunibu meeting with the President of America. That in itself President Tunibu needed in a way for its own authentication with several things that has been going on around its presidency and stuff like that. Being in America in itself for every Nigerian president is the statement of its own. Now, at the back end of that, you have to understand that being the populace, the most popular black nation on the earth, it makes a lot of sense for America being the number one world power to meet with the most important president in Africa regarding their fears of the EU as well as in terms of the region of West Africa where there has been a lot of coup. It might not be the primary reason why they will be meeting Nigeria in itself. Nigeria itself will have an agenda for seeing the President of America, but this will be one of the main agenda. As you cannot have America sit back and just watch what is going on around the world and military intervention in West Africa may not be the only option but if it should be, Nigeria and Ecuador will definitely need the backing of the number one force on the earth, which is America. So what are the ways you think such a meeting can be a social economic opportunity for Nigeria? Well, America being a large economic country in itself needs Nigeria, needs Nigerian oil, needs Nigerian gas, needs so many things from Nigeria. America already enjoys a lot of human capital from Nigeria. We know that a bulk of Nigerian diaspora are in America. So a bilateral relationship between the two countries, it will be for me what will be on the forefront of the agenda. Like you can see what the President did in India taking with him as many economic power in the house. Most of the billionaires in the country already see it will be meeting with Apple, it will be meeting with Microsoft, it will be meeting with General Electric. So there are so many things that the President is in America for to be able to attract foreign investment back into Nigeria. But is that in your own, if you were to set the agenda for this meeting, for the President, what will be top on your agenda? It shouldn't be like what we heard from the UAE that he has gone, he has done the visa, he has solved the visa problem, and the next day we saw that nothing like that was even discussed at all and all that. So if you were to set the agenda for this meeting between Joe Biden of America and our President, what would that agenda be? What would be top most for you? First of all, I would like to correct the notion that nothing like that was said of the visa ban between UAE and Nigeria. There is nothing like that, that is completely far from the reality. A presidential statement would not come out when a president makes a detour through that country and then there will be completely no truth to the fact that that was said. In fact, that is the major reason why the president was in the UAE. What you must understand about the UAE is that, and you can prove me wrong, their primary source of dissemination of news is not internet. So you might not see the UAE categorically right anyway that they have lifted the visa ban or so like that. However, saying that, whatever report you have seen from CNN or what have you, it is not from the government. Both the one that said it has been lifted and both the one that said it has not been lifted. Both information are coming from individual perspective, but the president himself is spokesman himself, the minister of aviation have said everybody who went with him have said this was why they are in the country. We have no reason under heaven to just begin to disbelieve such source of information. Now, when they have discussed this kind of information, it might take days to ratify. So they are trying to work out the process and then you see one of the things that I have noticed about the president is that when you criticize him, when you criticize his government, just few days after, whatever you say, I mean, I'm sure by the time Emirate land in Lagos or Abuja or Etihad and then people can travel in the next few days, I'm sure people will be able to pull that bet. Now, number one, I would not be in the position to set the agenda, but I would expect that whoever is setting the agenda to make the foreign policy the number one thing on the agenda. Nigeria has to reclaim its place. There has been a bit of clandestine move between Nigeria and South Africa and in terms of economic power and in terms of military strength and everything, Nigeria should be the number one nation in Africa. Economically, we have it intelligence wise, I'm sure you know this, that in terms of intelligence of the Air Force and the Navy, yes, you talk about, Algeria, you talk about Tunisia and stuff like that, but Nigeria has a bigger force. So strengthening our foreign policy and strengthening our military apparatus should be the number one there. We need America to manufacture to purchase equipment, aircraft, fighter jets and stuff like that. And number two for me is in terms of bilateral arrangement that will bring in prosperity from America to Nigeria and from Nigeria to America, they need to be a bigger fluidity. We lost a lot of bilateral relationship during the Obama administration and that was on the premise, you know, from American perspective, it's on the premise of corruption. Remember, during President Jonathan America has a lot of issues with Nigeria in terms of our oil dealings and stuff like that. Corruption, they want us to put a house in order and when they realize things were not going on, they begin to play setting, sanction in a way. That's when we drew the DV lottery visa and stuff like that. Now under this presidency, we should be having a review of our bilateral arrangement, even the treaty, the freedom of travel treaty, the EB-1 visa, E-1 visa between America and Nigeria needs to be on the front burner. Well, you said that the president is expected to push for global tax resolution. Yeah, let me just correct. Let me just say one thing before you say that, sorry. I just let you talk earlier on, but when the meeting in the UAE was held, the presidential spokesman, Julian Glari, came out to say that the visa ban has been lifted, but the UAE government vehemently refuted that claim and said nothing like that has been done. The ban has not been lifted. We are hoping it will be lifted one day, but not at that meeting. Now this was not said just to say that it was a laughable thing or something, but the thing is that if we are going to be real about discussions that we want to put on the table, we need to know them and whether we discuss them and arrive at a solution or not is another thing, but we shouldn't say one thing was tabled when another thing was tabled. And definitely what are the things that Nigerians are expecting the president to table before a powerful president like the president of America? That's why I asked the question. But in the real fact of it, they claim by Nigerian government that that ban has been lifted, has been refuted by the UAE. I just wanted to chip that in for you to know. I would like to reiterate that the information you got, you see, I'm an immigration lawyer as well. The information you got is not coming from the UAE government. It's coming from a representative who spoke to CNN that I can again categorically say to you the number one reason why the president was in the UAE is to resolve the issue of Etihad and Emirate not being able to fly into Nigeria because they were not able to repatriate their money. Nigeria did not solve that problem under the previous administration and the UAE visa ban as well as rectifying the Nigerians who are living in the UAE because the minister, the diaspora, what's the name again? The woman in charge of diaspora. She has been back and forth on this issue also to try and help to rectify a lot of Nigerians are living in the UAE without papers. So I can categorically say to you that is the major reason why the president was there. The misinformation and the back and forth or maybe they've lifted, they've not lifted. The Arab world, particularly the UAE and Saudi Arabia, they have a different means of the dissemination of their own information. In fact, I always say this and you're right on this, until the issue is completely resolved I don't always trust Arab news or Arab information because they don't roll the way we roll. They don't play with social media the way we do. But CNN, which is said is where their representative went to give that information is not social media and if their representative... It's not a government official from them. I forgot the name of the person who went on CNN to make that clarity. And one of the things we must put here is this. There is a banter, maybe it's opposition or what have you. We have someone that I admired a lot, Daniel Bala, who first of all came and said immediately the said he's been lifted will refuse. That's not opposition. And if more forces are reinforcing the opposition's view, it does not mean. So for example, I have a lot more inside information with people who were on that trip. And I can categorically tell you what I'm saying to you. Either he's been lifted or he's not been lifted. What I'm iterating is that the major reason why the president was in Saudi Arabia was to ensure that that issue is resolved. The president left the president of EAU with an impression with the affirmity that this issue has been resolved. That is why it's representative. But that is not the only reason why they are there. They also... See, I'll tell you this. The president, our current president, Bala Ahmed Tinibu, admires what has been done in the UAE. The visionary leadership that has brought that nation that... I mean, UAE is one of the countries I've been to a lot. And when you travel between the 90s and now into the UAE, the level of development that has happened into that country can be replicated elsewhere. This president is very admirers of what they have done in the UAE and is partnering with the leaders there for his own leadership enhancement and for dreams for vision. But I can tell you categorically, one of the major reason why he was there and he left with an impression with a consensus with those governments that this issue will be ratified. Yeah. Well, in the coming days we'll find out. And well, that's not the issue on the table right now. But we do hope that it will be resolved. We like the body language. We like how the passion is for our government, our president. What we're asking today is it's only natural that the people you're leading know what actually is taking you to where. And that's why I was asking the question, if you were to decide, what would you tell the president? I know you said that you were not the one to decide, but somehow you are in Nigeria with insight and we needed to know to pick your mind a little bit and see what you feel is priority for Nigeria. That's why the question came up. Oh, well, I'm glad that that was well trashed out. It's important that, you know, it's trashed up. But let's talk about this global tax resolution that President Tinnubu is expected to push for. At Ongar. Mr. Great, at Ongar. Now, you have to understand that one of the greatest passions of President Tinnubu is finance, account, taxation. Now, the world rules most countries have natural resources like the United Kingdom and they thrive on taxation. And the president, President Obama believes that there is a lot of issue that can be resolved economically between two countries and between the globe when the issue of tax is fixed. Going back to what you said, usually when a country invites another country within the context, the content of the letter of invitation, you will see the premise of the agenda in there. And I've looked at the letter of invitation or the statement inviting President Tinnubu into America. But I believe taxation and the issue of global affairs is one of the major reasons why the invitation has been sent to President Obama Tinnubu. So on the issue of the global taxation, it will be good to see American perspective on how the issue of taxation, interest rates, inflation can be resolved on a global level. And this is very, very important, particularly with the nomination of a supposed nomination of the new CBN governor. Now, remembering that this particular nomination, Mr. Yemi Kadoso is someone who had been part of the leadership of the Swift banks, the global Swift bank, that is the city bank. So he understand the workings of global transaction, global taxation, global exchange. So it is a very crucial time. And I wouldn't want to pre-empt what their conclusions will be, but I'm sure they'll be coming out with things like the reduction of interest rates to reworking of the interest on loans. And in some cases, this might be similar to what President Obasanjo did during his time when he went around the G7, the G8, the G20, even though Nigeria was not a member at the time to renegotiate Nigerian debt. Remember, not only that for Nigerian debt, even for many other African countries, these are part of the moves that you'll be seeing right now. Okay. All right, well, okay. Let me talk about something that is a bit related to this, but that's the new scramble for Africa's natural resources. When you look at how it's going, especially with France and the way you've been going about it, how would you say that African leaders, you regain their sovereignty from all this, I don't know what to call them, hawks? I think it's in order because there's carvenging for Africa. They are scrambling for Africa. They're dividing Africa. And no matter what the agenda might have been for the meeting, shouldn't we use this opportunity to stamp our foot and say we too are a sovereign nation and negotiate from a point of strength rather than of weakness, like we're going carp in hand begging for these people? Yeah. Eberheim, you want to talk about this? Yeah, you see, first of all, I'm going to use an analogy for this. When we were younger, if you are eating on the table with your siblings and you are much older than your siblings, sometimes you can be wiser than them to take the meat and blind their eyes, tell them to close their eyes. You see, African eyes are closed for too long while the big brothers are taking the meat off the table. But Africa is no longer a child, particularly Nigeria. The biggest thing that has happened to the world is not education but enlightenment. And the internet has contributed a lot to enlightenment. So a lot of resources for research, for development has come around the world. And the number one beneficiary of this information are Nigerians. In America today, you realize the Nigerians are the most educated. So what we don't know, when you hear this saying in the past, if you want to hide anything from a black man, put it in a book. Even though that statement is not completely true, I mean, right now with the advent of the internet, since the mid-90s, information has become a lot more prevalent and Nigerians have taken advantage of that. Now, I can say to you Nigerians are of full knowledge of how the world runs right now. And this is why you see that America and any other country cannot do what they're doing in the African countries with Nigeria because what those African countries are experiencing now, Nigeria experienced it immediately after independence. So you will see, for example, if you read maybe this book by Arrosmi and Fred Serratem and give so many people, you will understand that by the time Nigeria was negotiating and Africa was negotiating for independence, the administrators of those independence clandestinely put together a document that puts these countries in chains. For example, giving power to one zone, making the other zone look supreme to the other. The issue of even the Armagamation in 1914, a lot of these things were intentionally done to be sure that this country would take too long for their eyes to open and to see. Now, when you see war happening in countries, when you see coup, we also understood from administrators like this and from someone like Max, let me, what's his name again? You know, Maxillian, what Britain did to America? You will understand a lot of things that have been done clandestinely to make the world inequitable. Now, when you see people like this president go from the 1990, fought for his country to go back into democracy. I'm talking about President Bala Mertinubu without riot, without fighting, without anchor, is someone that is astute in all the world wrongs and this is the time that we have to rethink the world to be equitable because we know what the West is doing. But it's not going to happen because Africa do not have the might to go against the West in terms of military force. It will have to be done by dialogue. It will have to be done by rearrangement. It will have to be done by sitting on the table and renegotiating our natural resources. I am of the opinion that there are still so many secret and clandestine pipes that run between Nigeria and many West African countries and many African countries taking away the resources of those countries into many countries around Europe. We can't see America because the distance is too far. But the world is so inequitable that the leaders now have to start sitting on the table because there seems to be rebellion from Africa. Now, what's this? West African francophone countries are sorting out today. Nigeria has sorted them out in the 90s. That's my point. It's not completely sorted out. This is one of the reasons why we should be on the table and ratify the issue of bilateral relationship to be sure that the world is more equitable. It's not only presentable. It's not only there for Nigeria. It's also there to speak on behalf of Congo, on behalf of Nijie, on behalf of Kodewa and to ensure that the world is equitable. Yeah, but in your own opinion, like you said, negotiating table is what should be the answer to everything. But do you think we are going to negotiate from a point of strength? And if it is a point of strength, what do you think is that strength that we are going to do? Because a lot of things over the years that have come from the West seem to be things that they can use now to forgive the word, blackmail us or just hold us to ransom. We have taken so much loans. We have taken so much support from here and there. Every time we are going cap in hand and all that, and they have that against us. So what point of strength are we going to be negotiating with the Western countries with? First, I'm going to say to you after this question, I'm going to take about maybe 20 seconds to adjust my battery, which that's the point of strength cannot be established until you have financial strengths. Nigeria will be negotiating from the point of knowledge, from the point of enlightenment, from the point of intellectual powers. But it is the scriptures that says that the borrower is subject to the lender. You don't have strength when you don't have money. If you don't have the economic power, you are not strong. The reason why Saudi Arabia is as small as those countries are, the reason why they can bully and talk back at America is because of their financial strength. Nigeria is not yet at that point because we are holding World Bank, we are holding IMF and so many, we are holding China and stuff. We are just beginning to reposition ourselves financially and I think we can get there. This is not going to be the only meeting that will happen between America and Nigeria. This is the first of many between these two presidents and many other presidents. I will say that we are going first of all in the position of knowledge, in the position of willingness, in the position of exposition. This team that we have in this government right now, they are financially exposed. We also have a Nigerian, you know, at the hands of global financial affairs. So we are now negotiating in the position of strength and we will wait to see how far we go with it. Yeah, in the position of strength also, although we may not have the kind of money as you said, but we do have resources that they need and they will continue to need, perhaps that is the part of the strength that we should be negotiating from. And look at what BRICS have achieved. Transactions in national currencies. So I think we do have some kind of strength that we can also negotiate with. When we sit at those international tables and discuss as equals, not as, you know, a lesser power or a lesser people. If we keep waiting for that time, we will have money. We will never have the strength because they will keep doing some things that will keep us impoverished. That is how it is. So we have our own kind of power. What has UAE got on us? Because we have oil as well. We have gold, we have so many things. We have uranium, we have everything. And then we are still a country without money. Abraham, great. Always great having you. Yes. You have my crystal on? Just a quick one so that we wrap up. Okay, so let's wrap up on a final note. Okay. Now, you see, there is a scripture that I love again today. I'm just using scripture. It says that man does not roast, is killed. You see, what we have is fantastic, what we have is tangible, what we have is... But our return on investment, our return on resources has been eaten by greed, by misnegotiation and stuff. So we are not converting resources into prosperity. So we are at the position right now. You say we have gold, we have this. We have gas, but we have not even extracted them. We are now building the infrastructure. And when I mean that we do not have money, what I'm saying that we first of all need to go back, minimum, the minimum requirement for me for this country is to go back into what President Obasan just did by renegotiating Nigerian debt. In fact, in some cases, it was nearly wiped out. And I trust this presidency that we can get to a point, first of all, right now, within three months of his presidency, Nigerian credit rating has gone from negative to positive. That's a good sign. Our debt has also gone up within the last three months by 75 percent. Now, debt going up was as a result of we are now borrowing, not just for frivolity. We are now borrowing from capital infrastructure. We are now building infrastructure. We are building pipes, we are building gas. We are taking our natural gas right now through Niger to Algeria into Europe. We are saying we want to compete with Russia. We want to be able, right now, we're dealing with our raw material to be able to sell. So when you are borrowing in this case, and I have not seen under this government any form of borrowing, in fact, one of the things that they have reiterated is that they are not going to borrow for capital expenditure any longer. So you are seeing all kinds of ideas. I would say that it's too early to ever judge this government by anything at all. These are the phases of renegotiation. Interest rates and so many other things that will make it easy on Nigerian finance. Thank you, Abraham. Great. As I was saying, it's always great to have you on the show. And I do like the confidence that you have on President Ahmed Chernobyl. We are all rooting for him and hoping that we'll see a better country. That is really the goal. That is a dream and vision for all Nigerians. A better country that we can all be proud of. Thank you for your time, Abraham. Great. Thank you so much for having me. It's always a pleasure. Thank you. I'm expecting you. Yeah. So we'll take a break now and come back with our second hot topic. Stay with us.