 good evening. You can go to live in France, but you cannot become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany, or Turkey, or Japan, but you cannot become a German, or Turkish, or Japanese, but anyone from any corner of the earth. Come to live in America and become an American. Welcome back to A Nation of Immigrants, Season 3, a bi-weekly talk show program featuring the lives of immigrants, knowledge, diversity, and inclusion. Created by Sintank Kowaii, Team Student Law Office, and the US-China Cultural Media Group. All guests share their life stories, journey to the United States, and the contributions to cultural diversity. Today's guest is Eric Xiao-Ren Liu, bamboo flute musician. Welcome, Eric. Hi. Hello, everybody. We are honored to have you here. You are the first musician we interviewed. Oh, wow. May, let me read your short bio. Eric is a leading figure in the young generation of bamboo flute performance in China. He has been passionate about traditional Chinese music, things childhood, and the guidance of renowned bamboo flute masters like Zhang Wei-Liang, Chen Yue, Yuan Fei-Fan, and Wang Xinyi. Eric has developed a diverse musical style. In 2012, he gained admission to the Middle University of China in Beijing with the highest national ranking in music, continuing his advanced studies. Eric now lives at work in New York City, and he will perform a solo concert at Carnegie Hall in New York City on January 21. What a great honor, Eric, and thank you so much for taking time to be on the show. We can imagine how packed your schedule must be at this moment, only four days away from a solo concert at Carnegie Hall. It's my great honor as well, and it's grateful to share my experience and my thinking, my feeling as an immigrant musician to all of the friends in front of the TV and live. The honor is all ours. Thank you, Eric. Thank you. Let's start with your childhood. Because in your bio, you mentioned that you are passionate about Chinese traditional music in childhood. Could you share with some of your early memories of music and how it influenced your decision to pursue a career in traditional Chinese music, particularly with bamboo flute? I would say that it's a very popular instrument and a major instrument in Chinese music, but why a flute, a bamboo flute in particular? Of course. Actually, there was no one in my family involved in music. Most of my family members were in medical field who are working as engineers. I was doing great in my studies during my childhood, and according to my family's expectations, they hoped I would pursue this plan in science, technology, or maybe finance in the future. However, my mom has always wanted me to learn an instrument since my childhood. He hoped I would learn the piano, but I wasn't interested in it at that time. It wasn't until the sixth grade when I was watching TV and saw promotional video featuring many angels playing instruments in heaven. There was a girl playing the bamboo flute in the very graceful manner and it was like cat my eyes. The entire presentation of playing the instrument was really charming, and from that day I told my mom that if I were to learn an instrument, I wanted to learn the flute. That's how my journey into learning the flute began. Another fun fact about that girl who played the flute in that commercial, I later met her when I went to study in Beijing. She happened to be a senior student of one of my mentors, so it feels like a dream coming true eventually. What a lovely story. It feels like you fall in love with bamboo flute on the first night and by pure serendipity, and then you met the female musician later in your professional career. Exactly, that's amazing. I want to show you something. That bamboo flute is dear to me. That all the bamboo flute I've been playing in my life. I brought all of them from Beijing, and I still have the first bamboo flute my master gave to me 35 years ago, and that has been outdated in tapes because bamboo flute, as you know, is very active. I admire your music. I'm really honored to have the opportunity to interview you because you are writing style in Chinese music. It's a leading figure in younger generation of bamboo flute performers. This is my hobby. I would never become a professional musician. No, no, no way. Even your teaching, I would be able to make it. It's my hobby, but I understand, even as a professional, it is extremely hard to be a musician. So in today's global era, and now you are in New York City in the United States, and I was wondering how do you see the role of traditional Chinese music in today's global cultural landscape? This is a great question. First of all, let me introduce the knowledge about bamboo flute a little bit. The bamboo flute is one of the oldest musical instruments discovered in archaeological history, with a history of around 9,000 years, and every country in the world right now has its own ethnic or regional transverse flute. The major genres today are the Asian version, like Chinese bamboo flute, and western flute. We often sing in orchestras. However, all these wind instruments are somehow related. It's just that in the course of historical development, combined with different regional cultures, different languages, and other factors, they have been involved into different styles. This not only applies to wind instruments, but also to all forms of music. If we study the history a little bit more, we will find that there is a commonality in human wisdom. For example, the string instrument founded in ancient Persia, spread to Europe, and gradually developed into violin. Moving east forward and involved into our art. Understanding this aspect, we can realize that the commonality in human culture at a higher level, showing that our roots were or at least had similar regions many years ago. Knowing this, we will become more open-minded and less desiring of centralized power. Thank you so much. I also want to mention that what I play is a vertical flute. I understand you play all kinds of flute. The horizontal one is harder. I believe it's much harder. You think so? Yeah, I think so. I think the vertical one is a little bit easier. And I think you emphasized. This vertical one is extremely similar to the Japanese vertical flute. And they are all technical. The Japanese just are shorter. The Chinese vertical one just a little bit longer. Exactly. In terms of the horizontal one, no matter the cultural tradition, they are strikingly similar. And obviously, the Chinese one are made by bamboo and jade and other materials, but Western ones are made of metal. But anyway, let's move on. You are a fighting musician and a professional, leading and working in the New York City and performing now in the most prominent music concert hall in the United States. And how high do you experience in the United States? When did you come to the United States? I came here in 2018 at the summer time. This is a really good question. Actually, after I graduated from my undergraduate degree in Beijing, it's called Minzhu University, I had a very stable job. My main job was teaching music at school. And as my side project, I assist many producers and singers with recordings and participating in live performance a lot. However, during that years, I worked from 2016 to 2018. There were many issues in the whole music market, such as the lack of protection for copyrights. This was closely related to many musicians working behind the scene. And the industry demand for talent wasn't significant and only a small group of people can truly achieve success in that industry. So I experienced a lot of my students, even though they love this major, but many of them had to switch to other professions. So when I saw these kinds of issues frequently, I thought, OK, it's time to stop my current job and explore the world outside. That's why I decided to stop a little bit and move to the United States. Coming to New York certainly had a significant impact on my musical expression. The first year when I was in New York City, I was mainly focused on learning English. So I found that the logical of English actually quite similar to music. English is, yeah, that's my personal opinion. We can talk about it. English is very straightforward and Chinese often pursue a certain mood, requiring the listener to filter and integrate the information. This is very much like the logic in different music. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great point, Eric. I was very surprised to hear that. I need to think more, think about it more, that the English language is like music because music is logical. And that's Chinese language in overview. We are Chinese-imaginated literary, artistic, symbolic, pictorial, graphic. And they are out in line in particular with logic and reasoning. That's why we always say German language is better for law. And English is in the same family with German language. The Chinese language is better for often the literature, but they are not good for legal reasoning. Yeah, exactly. This is what I want to say. Yeah, so you can see the connection between different fields, right? Yes, definitely. And definitely it's a language. It's a higher level of language. It's a very difficult language, I would say. And again, we want to thank you for taking time, your four days before your performance at Carnegie Hall, and to be on the show. And performing at Carnegie Hall is a dream for many musicians. How are you preparing for this significant event? And what does this opportunity mean to you personally and professionally? Oh, so it's such a great honor to hold a solo concert at Carnegie Hall for me personally. I prepared for this record for like almost half a year. And it's also, I would say it's also a significant success for Chinese bamboo flute, because in the past 20 years, this is the first time Carnegie Hall has hosted a solo concert. Featuring the Chinese bamboo flute. So for me personally, I feel like both nervous and exciting about this performance, especially the performances right around the corner this weekend. So from the professional perspective, this concert in the cultural capital of the world in New York City, it certainly will be different. The concert aims to convey the diverse and inclusivity of Chinese music. So we committed to build a bridge that connect traditional and modernity, China and the world. So therefore the musical style will be very diverse, including traditional and contemporary pieces, aiming to provide the audience with a more comprehensive understanding of the possibilities of Chinese music and flute itself. So the performance difficulty is also quite high. Definitely, and the flute is a very, what we see is very rich. It's like R-Hoo, R-Hoo is like violin in the Western music. Yeah, it's on screen. They kind of present wide range of feelings. And when we see solo concerts, we don't really mean you're only you will be our state. We will be our tennis. And in Chinese music, our route with Jun or Qin, the seven screen zither or 21 screen zither, will become August. They can just express all kinds of human emotions by two minutes. So you mean as a route musician, you mean working with many composers and other musicians that could you share the highlights of some of your experience and how do you work with different musicians and the composers and have there in some way shaped your own musical style? Of course. Recently, like, for example, I collaborated with the New York Chinese ensemble. And I was shocked that this orchestra has a history of more than 60 years in New York City. And the oldest musician in it is already in their 80s. Yeah, so you can see like they are still performing on stage, like seeing this level of passion for music from the seniors is truly inspiring. And recently, exactly last month, I also collaborated with West East Ensemble from Bart College performing in Washington DC. So, and in that performance, I had the opportunity to meet the US Ambassador to China, Nicholas Burns. I performed Chinese music for him and he was really enjoyed and mentioning how colorful and emotional Chinese music is. Also, for example, recently I rehearsed with my piano accompanist for this Carnegie performance a lot. Her name is Patience. She's also really professional. Even though she's like, you really are very easygoing and cheerful girl, but as soon as she's sitting in front of the piano, she has like a different personality immediately. Yeah, so all of these collaborations are so inspiring and like make your, like my own musical experience really comprehensive and diverse. Oh, very cool. Thank you so much. And you basically, I would say, gave up your tenured professors at the University of China. And you were once you were named the outstanding young teacher in Beijing, that you're young compared to me, you're very young. You are a teacher and you are a teacher right now. And you inspire the next generation of musicians. And are you planning to continue your mentorship with younger generation of musicians and students? Yeah, of course. I'm so interested and like into teaching what I learned before. So I think in teaching felt having empathy is really crucial. I really enjoy teaching because, you know, there's a Chinese saying goes, it means, yeah, it means like in process of teaching, understanding and progress in knowledge are mutual. As a teacher, when I explain a piece of knowledge to a student in different ways, I'm also reviewing and reinterpreting that knowledge. And at the same time, each student has different personality and understanding. So in teaching, I have to explore the method that suits each student. This is very interesting and help me better understand how to communicate. Yeah. Good point. Thank you. You mentioned that Ambassador Burns thoroughly enjoyed your music. And for like the Chinese traditional music, like the bamboo flute, how could the music to serve as a bridge for cultural exchange and understanding between the Chinese and the American people? Oh, this is a good one. So as we mentioned before, playing bamboo flute and music and speak Chinese and English is the same. They are both languages. It's just music is a more universal language and you don't have to worry about grammar and or like what vocabulary is. Everyone can understand it and based on what they hear, they can understand the meaning within the music. So, in music, there's no language boundaries. As long as you are willing to spend some time to listening and feeling you can always discover the cultural connections. That's why we always see the culture and art are a form of like soft power in communication, especially right now I live in New York City. For all of my American friends were very friendly, embarrassing and eager to understand Chinese culture. Every time when I play Chinese music for my American friends, they always say like always so beautiful. I can feel I can see like mountains and flowing water, something like that. That's all aspects of cultural exchange. So I believe traditional music plays a significant role in cultural exchange between America and China. It's truly a bridge. I cannot agree with you more. Music doesn't need any translation and music is universal. Music can touch every corner of the earth and touch everybody far. And we are running out of time, but I do have three quick questions I want you to answer if we can. The first one is as a Chinese musician living in New York City, what are the most significant challenges in your career and particularly after you came to the United States and how do you overcome those challenges? So I think it's not a challenge just for myself, it's in general for all of the musicians. Like challenges in areas like lack of copyright protection and all the talented are hard to make living through music or art after they spend a long year to learn music or art. Even in New York trying to make a bamboo flute or Chinese traditional music recognized by the market and the audience, I think it still has a long way to go. As a younger generation artist, I'm still thinking and actively trying to find solutions to these challenges. Thank you very much. I think you build a company. What does that mean? Oh, so it's a combination of what fusion itself and ocean. So the spelling is like F-U-C-E-A-N and the slogan for this company is Fusing the Ocean. I actually formed this company is a start from when I prepared for the Carnegie concert and so eventually my business partner and I formed this company. I am to, you know, find more artists and help them to like, as we mentioned before, like there's lots of challenges and difficulties we are aiming through this platform to assist more artists in recognizing their value. So and bring all artists together. Yes, that's a great idea. And so now the next question is that you're young, but if you time travel permits, you can travel back in time to your early twenties and what advice would you give to yourself and or give to the younger generation? I would say for you definitely find the most difficult way but pursue your dream and always find something that can give you some self motivation, although this path is going to be really difficult, but don't be afraid. Yeah. Thank you. That's a great decision. And a very good advice. Lots of us exist. We normally ask our distinguished guests to make a recommendation, a book, a movie or music. And I'm thinking the liberty now for us to recommend your music concert on January 21 at Carnegie Hall. Thank you. Everybody. Thank you. Thank you. I'm looking forward to see more audience of this show in Carnegie Hall. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much for taking time to be on the show. Thank you, Mr. Wang. Fantastic achievement and to be a solo musician to perform at Carnegie Hall. What a great honor. And we look forward to hear more about your music, to hear more about your story. And we look forward to welcoming you back on the show. Thank you, Eric. I will. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Wang. Thank you very much. Aloha. See you next time. Thank you.