 Welcome everyone and thank you for joining us for this session. We talk about leveraging tech-led innovations to create impact at scale. Let me start with a brief round of introductions. My name is Siddharth Nautiyal. I'm a partner at Omedia Network India. We're an investment firm focused on social impact. Our purpose is to serve bold entrepreneurs who create a meaningful life for every Indian. We do that by investing in not-for-profit entities by giving grants, and also by providing early stage venture capital investments to companies that can provide technology-led solutions that create impact at scale. Our target customer segment is somebody we call the next half billion euro, who's typically a low-middle-income Indian, somebody who's come online in the last five years using the mobile phone as a primary way of accessing the internet, more familiar with their own mother tongue, and predominantly somebody who's been historically deprived and not had access to the benefits of what technology can provide. We've been in India for around 10 years, invested close to $400, worked with 100-odd entrepreneurs over the last decade or so, and really we've seen things change in the last five years. As technology has become more prevalent, we found that the ability of entrepreneurs to create impact at scale by serving this previously excluded target segment has really increased. A study which was done recently by the Impact Investors Council, which is the industry body of all impact investors in India, suggested that there are over the last decade, 600 early-stage innovation-driven impact enterprises that have got started that together serve close to half a billion people. Those are big numbers, and that brings us to the topic of this discussion, which is how do we make sure we can benefit from the learnings that we've all had and share some of those, on how can we create impact at scale using technology. With me, I have three entrepreneurs who've been through the journey, Hardika Shah, who's the founder and CEO of Kinara Capital, one of the leading lenders to micro and small and medium enterprises. I have with me Shashank Kumar, co-founder and CEO of DHARP, one of India's leading technology firms focused on the agri-value chain. And I have Gaurav Agarwal, founder of 1MG, which is one of India's largest e-farmacy and online health chains. Let's start with a brief round of introductions. Hardika, if you could hand over to you to speak a little bit about yourself, the company, and then we'll go around and then move forward. Sure, thank you very much, and thank you for having me on this panel. Let me just set the context, since we're talking about what is going on in the country that houses over a billion people. Now, where we have 60 million small businesses that actually employ over 100 million people, and a lot of them are at the bottom of the pyramid, right? And yet these 60 million small businesses struggle to get access to credit. Less than 10% have access to formal credit. And the challenges with this are really deep-rooted. Firstly, there's lack of collateral, no land or property to offer, a security to get a loan, two-third of Indians don't even own a home, and in urban India, that's even a bigger number. Secondly, it's lack of formalization. Just India is for small businesses, the ease of doing business is not quite there yet, although it is changing. So this formalization means compliance, paperwork, it just makes it difficult for a small business to actually get their arms around it. And then the last part, so this lack of formalization, lack of property collateral, and leads to a lack of documentation. There is no footprint of what is possible for small businesses, in terms of what their revenues are, et cetera. And so what we end up with is a large economic engine of 60 million small businesses that drive over 30% of the country's GDP, 40, 45% of the industrial output and exports are unable to get access to credit. Now, this is where Kinara Capital comes in. Kidara is a socially conscious fintech, and we have been providing loans to micro and small businesses in India for almost a decade, I feel so all saying that, but we build a digital lending solution that provides small loans in the range of $8,000 to $10,000 to manufacturing, trading and services businesses. And we do this in a high touch high tech model, a data-driven decisioning model with last mile distribution, last mile doorstep service across over a hundred cities in six states in Southern and Western India. To date, we have actually dispersed over $300 million across 60,000, 70,000 loans. This has helped increase entrepreneurial income by 20, 25%, it has created more than 70,000 jobs at the bottom of the pyramid and sustained over a million livelihoods. And all this while we remain profitable for the last six years. So that's Kinara in the nutshell, in the context of small businesses in India. There are mutes at the end of the room. Sorry, just wanted to. Thank you. Thank you, Adhika. That's a super journey, and we'll speak more about this in the next few sessions. Shashank, if I hand it over to you for a quick introduction. Thanks, Adhaka. Thanks for having me. Hi, everyone. My name is Shashank, and I'm one of the co-founders and CEO of Tehath. For Tehath, in fact, was the default setting. It was a conscious choice for us, because that's where, that's how it all started. Being part of farmers' family, by the time I was 26, somehow got exposed to both the ends of food chain. Somehow could not understand the gap between farmers and this multi-billion dollar industry, and that's where it all started. It's been close to a decade. We have been in this space. Our journey started with mere 14 farmers, which is today more than 6.8 lakhs farmers, which is close to 0.7 million farmers. So, and again, I mean, the only reason why we could stick to this sector, which is today, Agritech, when we started, this was agriculture, is the impact. And I can't express, right? I mean, Socap, obviously, right? I mean, since years we have been hearing that, hey, you are into impact space. You're trying to do something in Agri. You must attend Socap. So it's great to be here today. About Tehath, it's a farmers' first company. We have been trying to bring everything related to agriculture under one roof. So right from which crop to grow, how to grow, to where to sell. It's a seed-to-market model. So whichever crop farmer is growing, they get access to complete end-to-end agricultural value chain services, right from agricultural input, crop advisory, financial services, which is the most recent one, and logistics, warehousing, and last but not least, and probably the most important thing is the market linkage of the farm produce. So in a way, we have been connecting small holders of India to the different Agri business institution. So as on that, we are connecting these 0.7 million farmers to more than 850 unique Agri businesses while connecting these farmers with different businesses, while helping these farmers to make each and each stage of their farming cycle. At the same time, again, the overall approach has always been farmers-friendly, farmers-first, where approach is not just to exchange the information, while to be with them throughout the season. So just one level above farmers network, we have been building our own last-mile distribution system, last-mile supply chain, and that's where we have been building our own network of rural micro-entrepreneurs, which is currently 3,000. And with the help of these 3,000 exclusive digitized network of rural micro-entrepreneurs, we have our footprints in more than 33,000 Indian villages, as on date. So as on date, the heart is present in more than seven Indian states. As I said, that with the network of these 3,000 micro-entrepreneurs, we are working with the 0.7 million farmers who are active on the platform on day-to-day basis. So on day-to-day basis, they are buying any Agri info, they are selling any farm produce. If not, then they are raising their advisory-related queries. If I talk about the quick milestone, so as on date to our platform, every day we are aggregating close to 1,800 metric ton of produce, whether it's corn or vegetables or oil seeds. Every day we are delivering more than 12,000 orders of seed fertilizer to farmers. Every month we are spending close to 3 million minutes with farmers, while advising them for sustainable agriculture practices. But again, the best part is the overall spam or the overall sample size of the problem statement, which is huge. And in front of that, the current milestone, it's not even a drop in the ocean. But the good part is that the value proposition is very well established. The unit economics is pretty strong. And that's the reason why we have a super ambitious goal of aggregating more than 35 million Indian farmers in next four years. We are aiming to build a network of more than 30,000 rural micro entrepreneurs to create our footprints in more than 400,000 Indian villages by 2025. In the last 23 months, we have raised 46 million US dollar, which is again another validation of what exactly we are building at the heart. So pretty excited to be here and look forward for much deeper interaction. Thank you, Sushant. Gaurav, let me hand it over you. Thank you. First of all, Siddharth and Sokarp, thank you so much for having me on the panel. You know, again, I'm sure listening to my esteemed colleagues, they're solving some really tough problems. One such tough problem, I feel is healthcare. And you know, healthcare affects folks who are poorer, more than affects folks who can actually afford high quality healthcare within or outside the country. And you know, when we started 1MG in 2015, we had a very simple vision. We felt naive, very naive at the time. We felt that if you gave people the right information, which helped them make right decisions, if you gave them the right products and services at the right quality and at the right price, you may be able to make a dent in this otherwise extremely complex problem called healthcare. And with this, you know, lofty goal, but sort of naive, our naivety at the start, we started 1MG. And you know, 1MG has been probably the most fulfilling journey of at least my life in the kind of impact that we've had over the years. To give you some numbers, last year we had almost 200 million people, million Indians, almost 20%, 15% of the nation's population come to 1MG to actually access information. Information was our main inroads into healthcare. And the information that we provide is actually medicines that consumers get prescribed by their doctors. Unlike the West where when a doctor describes your medication, there's a pharmacist who explains the purpose of how he's supposed to take it, how it works, et cetera. There's no such person in India, and we found to 1MG that that was a huge aid to meet. 200 million people come to 1MG to actually access content of medicine, which is available in six different languages. On top of this information platform, we built a fundamental transaction platforms starting out with e-pharmacy, which is medicine delivery at home. We sort of managed the whole end-to-end supply chain, ensuring there's authenticity and quality in the medicines that get delivered to the home. The second service we built was diagnostics. Same problem around trust quality information where 1MG today owns a lot of the supply chain for providing high quality lab test services at your home. And the last service we built was consultations, which is online consultations both through video, audio, and chat. We use a lot of artificial intelligence and machine learning to make sure that patients can access healthcare in cheaper ways, without actually affecting quality in any way, shape, or form. And our goal is to make sure that 1MG provides, for lack of a better word, better alternative to the broken healthcare that exists for everyone in this country today. And when we look back and think about the impact that we've had, we are actually extremely gratified when we see that 1MG's biggest and fastest growing areas are actually tier three plus cities. Cities that somehow came online on the back of cheap internet access like Geo and Airtel. And then suddenly just off growing, massively which test is again, that we are reaching the right audience, solving the right problems, serving the right needs. And we are very, very grateful that Siddharth and his firm were actually part of our journey as well. So that's a little bit about 1MG. From me, I was born, brought up in Kampur, did my undergrad from IT Delhi, spent over a decade in the Bay Area. And then really started to think about what I wanted to do in life, how I could have more impact, came back to India and 1MG is the best thing I could have asked for. So yeah, very simple that was. Thanks, Gaurav. So clearly the spaces you've each picked and worked in, be that credit or the agri-value chain or healthcare are immense. And your companies have been at this for a while, six years in the case of 1MG, a decade or so for Kenara as well as for Tehaad. If we look at the growth of the Indian internet sector, I think it's fair to say most of the people who use your services today weren't part of the Indian internet ecosystem when you started your businesses. So clearly, even though consciously you might not have done it, over time you have had to tweak your products, your offerings in terms of technology, the languages you serve, customers in the pricing, the operational design, et cetera. Talk to us a little bit about how that journey's been, how those tweaks in your strategy came along to take advantage or to serve this customer segment, this NHB customer segment who wasn't there when you started off and how that's impacted your growth. So if I flip the order around a little bit, this time Shashank, if I put you first and ask for your comments and then we'll go around the table. So to be very honest in the case of Tehaad, when we started, there was no model at all. It was just a thought that in India, if we have more than 140 million farmers, again in India, if this industry is more than 300 billion dollar industry, why can't we build a large, sustainable working model around farmers? So this was just a thought, right? I mean, the model solution, I mean, we were a blank slate when we started and it has been a bottom of journey. So to answer your question, there were few internal debates to, again, I mean, to solve or to combat. I mean, for example, when you're looking at farmers, whether you should look at the entire, you know, wallet share of the farmer across import, advisory, output, or you should focus just one of these services, right? So this was like one question we had that like from day one, we should have all the touch points around any individual farmer, or we should just pick one of these and go to thousands of or millions of farmers and then with the respective time to add more and more touch points on top of that. Obviously between these two, we chose the first one. Why? Because we wanted to gain confidence from first farmer, right? I mean, whether we are trying, whether we are in a position to change or to bring some impact on their livelihood or for the farmer's family or not. So that's why this was something, again, I mean, we got clarity during very early stage of life, like that number of farmers that will come later. But even though this number is mere 14 or 250 or 5,000, let's focus in an integrated way, right? I mean, irrespective of the number, how we can provide complete end-to-end agricultural services to these farmers. Obviously, when this will get established, then the next task will be to add more and more farmers, right? So obviously, this was one thing where we debated a lot and again, the good part, the fortunate part is that we got clarity during very early stage of our journey. The second design aspect or the second solution part was that, again, paid versus free. Crop advisory is something where, again, we had been working since very first day. We knew that crop advisory is something which is very much needed and probably this is the best touch point to build and to strengthen relationship with the farm. But at the same time, we wanted to build a customized crop advisory services, not a generic. Then again, the question in front of us was that whether we should have any subscription fee or we should not. So obviously then again, we decided not to have any subscription fee. And again, just to compensate that part with other touch points, which is input and output where, again, I mean, obviously there were some commercials involved in that. So those are the two main things I think we had to answer ourselves before we started in order to get in. Again, I repeat that we were fortunate that we could. I think Trashank might be facing some initial connectivity. Let's give him a few seconds. If not, we'll keep going. There he is. Sorry, my bad. I got wrong. So I was saying that the good part was that we could get clarity around these and that's where initially we built each of these services for farmers. And then afterwards, we started adding more and more farmers. So for initial five years, the total number of farmers were less than 15,000. And then today, every month, we are adding more than 60,000 farmers. So that was one. The second, I think, evolution or the point of inflection or solution was transformation from physical to digital stuff. Again, I mean, we started in 2012. Initially, everything was pretty manual, whether it was onboarding a farmer or onboarding a micro entrepreneur, advising the farmer, collecting their data cells. So this was quite manual, but obviously over the years, everything could get transformed to the digital side. And that's why again, I mean, where we are today, that we have a complete full stack solution right from farm level to farmer to last mile to warehouse to the buyers and sellers as well. That's where again, I mean, while at this level, where again, the milestone I had shared, at any given point of time, we get complete visibility at farm level, at farmer level that who is doing what? Who is buying what, selling what, what sort of, where is they are asking? Even at their land parcel level, I don't know that what exactly is happening at their land parcel, regardless of the size of the farm or land parcel level. So those are the two major aspects I would, I'd like to highlight on the evolution or the transformation on the solution side stuff. Got it. Haldika, what about you? What's changed and what design choices have worked for you? Well, I'm going to take off from Marisha. Shahan was talking about this large shift on digital and the India stack, right? Things that are been such an enabling environment. Gaurav talked about geo and practically free data, low cost mobile phones, the India stack, essentially democratizing data in general, whether it's identity, whether it's trust, whether it's this digital view of the person and the business. And so when we started, we were a highly touched model because our customers needed that vernacular and last mile distribution and that touch. And we did what Shahan was talking about. We collected a lot of information. Now we had paperless technology from day one. So we were collecting in the field and digitizing information. But the biggest shift that has happened in the last three, four years has been our ability to get onto the India stack and be able to fast track a lot of these processes in a very low cost manner, which is an important piece of the puzzle as well, the cost element, as far as how we can plug in for the kind of loans we do, small ticket loans for micro enterprises. And what that has, and in doing that, one of the design decisions we had to make is how far do we go up the technology curve and leave behind the people side, right? And where we have landed is a very blended model. Our customers still like the last mile service. They still want that personalization. And yet the processing can be completely digital. All of our decisioning is completely automated. And so we're taking out the bias from the individual in the field deciding whether I should or are you eligible for a loan? And should I sanction your loan to a machine learning model? But at the same time, they are still making sure that the customer relationship is maintained. The customer has a person they can call, which is still how we operate, right? At the relationship-based level. So that was a big critical decision point as the world was shifting around us. How do we create a blended tech model and provide that last mile service? I would say the other piece is also a little bit around expansion. It is so important that as we think about expansion, there's so much pressure to go all India, pan India, you know, pan Asia. And it requires a lot of deep thinking to recognize where we are good at. And for us, we decided that we wanted to go deeper in existing geographies. It allowed us to build operational efficiency. It allowed our employees to get opportunities for a career growth. There's so much nuance to local regions and local regional information style working. And it allowed us to capture that and work with that rather than rush around all over the nation trying to provide the same service. We will eventually get there. Might take me another decade. So it's not out of the question, but I didn't want to do it right away out of the gate. So that was probably a second decision. And maybe an interlink third decision or a design decision is more, you know, how much scale do you chase versus profitability? So the scale versus profitability question keeps coming up often. And, you know, profitability is where we focused because as a lending institution doing unsecured business loans, which was unheard of or rather not, you know, not well received, but in the ecosystem we operate in, we needed to establish that we had unit level economics down that while we were doing this for a financially excluded community, we were still able to build a model that could stand the test of scrutiny from a banker or a lender perspective. And thank God we did that. Look at the world we ended up in where our ability to, you know, to stand our ground has counted for a lot and our ability to therefore continue the work we're on and the path we're on, having done the profitable part of the solving of the business problem has been an important element of it. So maybe those three things are my big decision feedback points. Got it, makes sense. And that actually is a, they've all worked for you. And the emphasis and profitability of a scale is one of those which is the most obvious to somebody who's starting off a business by themselves, but given investor pressures, it's something that's not always the most obvious given other constraints and other stakeholders. So, but that's a point we'll come back to. Thank you for that. Gaurav, if I turn to you, you guys have clearly done a fair bit of innovation around this and I see comments on the chat about exclusion and how that could also be something that technology always doesn't take into account. And I know in your basic thesis of language as, and making that all encompassing, that's the starting point of what you guys have started off with. So speak to us a little bit about how that journey has been, how those innovations are planned out for you at one point. Yeah, that's a great question actually. And, you know, six years in, I feel that while we were correct in a few areas around how technology actually bridges the digital divide or the divide, you know, between the haves and the haves, I also feel that today we are a lot more, we have a lot more humility around how it actually creates divides as well. And to give you an example, I think, you know, our contents available in six different languages more coming. Significant amount of people actually now access 1MG in the local language, you know, Hindi, Tamil, Telugu, Kannada, Gujarati, et cetera, right? So it hasn't been easy, you know, it takes a fair amount of effort to actually keep everything updated, working in many different languages. So that was, I think, an easy win for us to get going. But then, you know, I think a belief that people will open an app and sort of order, you know, order their tests or order their medicines, you know, also points to the fact that just getting internet doesn't mean that people suddenly become tech savvy, right? And they know what this checkout flow means and what search means and, you know, how do you do this, you know, payment thingy and how do you figure out the OTP copying and stuff, right? So I think some of this has also been a realization that in, especially the impact micro market, if you will, where there is no technology access, but maybe not a lot of technical literacy, right? And we've seen markets sort of evolve from not having technical, not having, let's say, tech access to getting tech access to becoming consumers of content, right? So a lot of people consume a lot of content. They go to YouTube, they go to 1NG, they'll read everything they can, but don't become trans actors initially, right? And so some of our thinking has also gone through an evolution where we started to realize that people are at different journeys. And, you know, it's an acceptance that, you know, the old fashioned idea-based order placement, right? Or WhatsApp-based order placement are actually good technological interventions as well, you know, and everything doesn't need to be an app. And, you know, it took us a while, and I'm sharing this because it took us a while to actually accept that, you know, that's technology as well, and to someone that's actually high-end technology and for us to actually accept and adopt it wholeheartedly. I'm not sure if we still adopt and accept it wholeheartedly, but, you know, that was a big switch for us to make, right? We were so digital all the time that, you know, four years back when we started all the new channels, it faced a fair amount of pushback within the organization. Our technology didn't want to bear any tools for it because, you know, oh my God, it's taking a step back. So I think for us, that was like a key learning, right? I think the third learning that we had was that we were so focused on service quality levels, right? So if you're serving, let's say a consumer in Delhi, his service expectations are very, very high. And without realizing explicitly, we assumed that that's the service quality level that everyone across the country needs, okay? And that was another illusion that broke over time that a lot of rural India, a lot of tier three plus India was just happy to get service, you know, was just happy to have choices. Was just happy to get their medicines in three to five days versus, you know, having to actually make a trip to the city or get a relative to actually, you know, parcel it through India post and, you know, it getting lost, et cetera. So, you know, that realization also became very important where we actually started to use centralized fulfillment locations to service pan India, built a lot of technology for it. And as I mentioned earlier, tier three plus is one of our largest segments, drawing very, very rapidly. And so we are increasingly setting up new supply chain points and new supply chain tech. It requires something completely different because in a lot of places, you know, transportation is a challenge. And we were just looking at a model where, you know, you can't, in these segments, you can't work directly. Typically you have to work with a middleman because, you know, that's the guy who's built all this intelligence around using an app and ordering for other people, you know, how do you use that point as a hub or let's say drop offs of orders, et cetera. So I would say these three are the key technological interventions that we've made to make our technology, you know, more accessible. Fascinating. I think the interesting point I take away from this is technology is an enabler but sometimes there's a risk of making technology the product. Yeah. And that might not work. It's a design choice you guys took to make sure it was tailored to the needs just because you thought, and we thought app was cool, doesn't mean that the user thinks app is cool. How do we do the right messaging for the individual? And the same hard liquor for you where you took a conscious design calls and you could actually make everything paperless and making everything online but that's not what your customer wants. You need to have that blend across the board. It's fascinating. I mean, an anecdote comes to mind, right? So if you look at the shopping experience all of us have, it's really the US supermarket shopping experience ported on to a website. You Amazon started off with the cart which was the analog of the shopping experience in the aisles in a physical supermarket. And that that became the de facto and the default standard across the world. But if you take that experience to an Indian to a person in tier two, tier three India that person is not shopping in a supermarket. She's never been there. She's shopping in the local neighborhood store and the owner of that store is telling her this is nice, buy this, et cetera, right? So that's really the innovation that is driving the next phase of growth in e-commerce in India. Because the first wave got stuck at the top 50 to 60 million users and really changing that paradigm has been critical in expanding the universe of folks that the e-commerce space can serve. So thank you. That was an excellent reminder of how we sometimes get sucked into our own myth that technology by itself is enough when it really becomes just an abler for this to become a solid business. We are in the last 10 minutes of our time here. And I wanted to focus now on another question that had come up in the chat, which was the choices between impact and scale. And I say that also in the context of capitals because once you take outside money it's not just what the founders think. It's what other people are also saying whoever's taking the company as shareholders and influencers. Each of you has taken money from investors focused on impact and has also taken money from investors who are more commercially minded, traditional commercial VCs. In one MTSK you've now gone through an M&A transaction where a large Indian corporate house is managers and owns equity in the company. How have you specifically seen that balance play out? Is that, so simple question, founder versus investor pulling together, pulling in different directions, impact versus scale. Is it a journey that you take together or is it a battle that you fight step along the way? So I think if I can start with you and then we go around the table on this one. Sure, so look at Kinara, transforming lives, livelihoods and local economies is our mission and our focus on financial inclusion is such a large opportunity that it provides enough comfort for both financial investors and impact investors. So we are never debating about whether we should or shouldn't do this because what we do is core to how we operate the entire business is structured around this opportunity. And so that has not been a challenge. I think the more nuances and I think I see a question here about mission drift, et cetera as well and how investors push towards that. I think the more nuanced part of this is more back to that scale profitability question that it's as investors have funds, they have cycles, they need to exit timeframes that perhaps there is a push for scale and is there a question around how that scale needs to be achieved by moving to adjacent segments. And that's where I would say the mission drift starts to creep in and it really just requires you to be focused and clear on what it is that the company stands for. This is what Kinara has done. We have focused on the micro enterprise segment. We have been focused on it on this segment for the last 10 years. We're not deviating it from it. We're not changing tracks and we are making sure that this story is so powerful that whether it's an impact investor or a finance first investor that there's something for everybody in it. Got it, makes sense. Shashank, your thoughts? So I think before investor, it's an important question for every entrepreneur, right? I mean, one has to go through every day. I believe both are important without any obviously confusion. Obviously, why? Because as an entrepreneur, you feel good when you see your impact is reaching to a scale, right? So more than someone else is asking, right? I think it also excites every entrepreneur when you will see that impact from where you had started that's reaching to a different scale, right? So that's one. Again, in the context of the heart, we raise our first institutional capital after seven years of our inception. So again, being a first generation entrepreneur, I can't say that this was the plan, but that's how it happened. And primarily because as a team, as model, we wanted to get that confidence that let's say now, whenever we are ready, I mean, are we really ready for scale-up journey or not? So I think when we gained that confidence, then we started raising our institutional capital. So first initial six and a half years, seven years, we took a lot of debt, we took money from Angel, right? So we didn't have to deal with that question, what you're actually asking. And then last past two and a half years, when we started raising institutional capital, again, we were fortunate to be in a position to choose our investors in a way. The first institution in the investors, in fact, we chose, in fact, who have some understanding of, you know, agree, right? Who understands, you know, impact. And then with respect to time again, I mean, every time, I think we just maintained that equilibrium, I think. But last but not the least, what really helped us, four co-founders, seven years of, you know, grassroot experience, cumulative 28 years, it will take a lot of effort to anyone to treat us. So by the time, basically, we got investors on CapTable, by that time, we knew that what we have. So I think there we are. Lastly, I think I would agree with Harjika. I think for any investor, their own respective fund cycle is important. So again, I mean, in the context of, it's been just two years, in fact, like the oldest investor on CapTable is just two years old. And still, and like, and more than investor, I think, or someone else is saying, as a promoter, as an entrepreneur, again, we believe that this is a growth stage. Every year we are growing by 4X and 5X. So again, I mean, because of all these facts and reason again, we didn't, you know, have to go through this phase, you know, Siddharth. All right. Correct. You have an additional perspective to that, which is not just investors, but also having been through the M&A part of the journey. What are your thoughts on this? Yeah, look, I think there are two parts to your question, right? One is that do you guys build something together or do you go in opposite directions, I think, or different directions? You know, when you have any more than one human being involved in the building up of any enterprise whatsoever, people will go in different directions, right? And I think that what we've seen is that the diverse perspectives have been extremely helpful. We've had our investor, you know, Badri from Omidya come in often with a very different perspective than, let's say, some of the traditional VCs that we've had on the captive, and we've been very fortunate, right? Because we fall in such an interesting intersection of impact and financial VC that we've had, you know, benefits of both. And some of the best investors in the world in both, you know, we've had Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation on our captive for a bit, you know, before the transaction, we've had IFC, sort of in a quasi impact. And then of course we have Omidya as well, right? And we have some of the best financial investors as well, Sequoia, Maverick, you name them. So I feel that the diverse perspectives help. And the second part of the question is actually more interesting, my impact versus scale. And I'm not sure if they are two different things. And, you know, sure, if you could affect one person's life and have an impact there, it's great. But, you know, I just very strongly feel that as an enterprise, unless you can affect the lives of thousands and tens of thousands and millions, you know, you have a potential that capital to do so much more that why would you settle for less, right? And so for us, it has always been very, very clear that for us impact is equal to scale and there's no difference between the two. And we've seen that play out remarkably well in the 1MG journey. Lastly about the M&A portion, I think that the M&A was actually, it actually happened because we see the Tata group also as a group that has a financial motive, but impact at heart. They have probably, you know, they were named, I think recently as one of the largest, biggest philanthropy groups in the world, one of the biggest individual philanthropists as well. And there's something good about everything they do, you know, somewhere along the way, their hearts in the right place. They don't cut corners where it matters. And, you know, that was a big deal for us that healthcare is so important that sure you could get swayed by just making money and making profits, but you have to do the right things. You know, you have to do the right by the people who trust you for, you know, their healthcare needs. And which is where, you know, it became very important to pick a partner who just didn't think about money and scare, but who also brought to the table a philosophy on doing the right things for the right reasons, right? And that's what I think that's what impact is all about, right? Doing the right things for the right reasons, you know, not just for money and actually affecting people's lives positively in whichever way that you can. And that's really been our journey and our learning from the social experience. Fascinating. And that's actually a pretty deep insight. It's impact and scale really isn't a choice. It isn't a choice from your experience. Also, if the basic dynamics of the business are what drives scale, which is what attracts the investors to come alongside because they bought into the model, then it's more about taking diverse views to make that end state more robust as opposed to fighting about whether this direction or that, I think that's a pretty strong insight that we can build off. I see we are at our time and I'm gonna request twice from the organizers if we have time for a last question or whether we are beyond our time, but it's been fascinating and just chanceing luck. Let me just put out that one. If you were to as entrepreneurs who've been in business of scale have one bit of advice to a new entrepreneur starting off on a similar journey where you were 10 years back trying to figure out how do I use this massive efflorescence in technology to build up scale business. What advice would you have for that entrepreneur? How they can start with you, then to Sean and Gaurav and then we can wrap up. Embrace uncertainty. It's gonna come at you from every direction. And while we talk a lot about mission and impact and scale, really good stuff being able to ride with whatever is thrown at you is going to take you far. So that I don't think I qualify for this, but I'm gonna ask and again, nothing new. Just again, relate yourself with a problem statement that why you are doing whatever you are and then think long term. Rest everything will get settled down with respect to time. I think this is what I think we have learned from our own journey. So that's why again, and knowing that the sector where we are in, it's going to be a long race, right? Makes sense. Gaurav? I think very similar to Shashank, only thing to add is technology is a tool. Use it wisely, use it to your advantage, but never lose sight of the people you serve and the impact that you seek to make. I think we often forget in this whole hallabaloo of scale and valuations and money and technology and AI and ML, we often forget about the customer who's at the core of everything. And being very honest, we often forget about the customer who's at the core of everything. And as a founder, as an entrepreneur, if you can somehow always keep going back to that North Star and be honest to yourself, are you making a real impact? Are you doing what is the right thing to do? I think everything else just becomes a lot easier in the whole process. Fascinating, sage advice. Thank you. Thank you, Gaurav. Thank you, Shashank. Thank you, Hardika, for this session. Much, much appreciated. My sense is we can keep going on, but we have overstayed our welcome by at least five minutes. So with that, thank you to the audience and I hope you have a good day ahead. Thanks, guys. Thanks, sir. Thanks for that. Thank you. Everyone who is with us. Bye-bye. Thank you. Bye-bye.