 Let's call the liquor control board to attention. First up is public comment. This is public comment on the liquor control board. So we do our liquor licenses under that. And then we move on to the select board comment on the liquor board. Seeing none, approval of the agenda. Moving for you to approve the agenda. Like that. All those in favor? Aye. We have the next agenda item as a first class liquor license for Weebird Bagel Cafe. First class is beer and wine, right? Beer and wine. No ice louche set up there. No ice, that's the third class, we don't need any of that. And then the format you have in your packets is the new sheet from the new application sheets from DLC. So if they look a little different, that's why those are changed. I guess it's more of an online system. That's what they're trying to move towards. We don't even have a signature page, it looks like. Yeah, it's very confusing. Yeah. It was a very confusing first experience, having done them all previously on hard copies. We have a motion to approve this. How will we approve the first class liquor license? I'll second that. Motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. I maintain a motion to adjourn. So moved. All those in favor? Aye. Call the select board meeting to order. First up is public comment. This is anything that's not on the agenda, but it's like board. Seeing none, no step on the screen. We'll go on to approval of the agenda. Move that we approve the agenda. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Onto the consent calendar. This meeting minutes from September and wants. It's your turn, Perry. Motion to approve the consent calendar. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Next up is our business items. And first up is equipment proposals. So we've got, we sent this around a little while ago to go with this conversation. I'll throw one down, Larry. I'll try to pull one up on the screen so I can give my reach. I haven't done a share screen in a while, so if I'm technologically inept, that would be part of it. So let's try to put this on there a little bit. So this gives you an overview, and I'll walk through what some of the small text is here. That's not on the main screen. So yeah, so we've got four pieces of equipment, basically, to talk about. The first three tie-in of the conversation we had last month about a placement of a pickup truck for highway, replacement of one of the loaders, and then replacement of the vibratory roller. And so those are the numbers you see up there. The fourth piece that we've started to talk about, too, based on age conditions and concerns about its durability and reliability, is a jetter that's primarily used by Chris and his crew in water, wastewater. So there's some numbers, at least preliminarily, to talk about there and why that piece of equipment is important. And so we'll touch base on that. And essentially what we're looking for from that conversation is to get it started. Move to approve. Whoop. In your Congress. I think we've got a little bit of feedback with her. Just to go to the big one, right? Yeah, well, that's done now, but you can find it on there. Well, let's try. I don't hear myself again, so I think we got it. So just to kind of walk through, in green on these sheets are the currently recommended options. These are all paid for at that highway equipment reserve. There's a mixture of funding mechanisms that are at work here. The truck purchase, which is the very top listing, is would be an outright purchase. So we just would use those reserve funds to make that purchase in this fiscal year and be done with it. The other two, given the useful life of the pieces of equipment and the cost, and in trying to maximize the dollars that are in the equipment reserve, because if you'll recall, we purchased a dump truck out of that fairly recently as well. So to leave a little bit in there, thinking ahead to next year, even though that'll probably have to be a more modest set of proposals in terms of equipment, there are already some ideas for that. We can fit all of these pieces together in that footprint. So we're going to try to, if you can just, yeah, maybe, over here, this one, I'm not here right now. So with the truck, we looked at a couple of different options. There were the extended cabs. That's what we currently have, right? Yeah. So we have an extended cab now. We went with a bigger crew cab as part of the mix so that we could more easily fit department personnel. We went with a slightly bigger truck and some of the modeling so that it have some more functionality when it comes to snow removal, summer maintenance activities, those types of things. So the one that's recommended is a 2022 Ford F-350. It's got a crew cab. This one, we have actually a credit with this dealer. So when you weigh out the total cost of that, taking the trade allowance for the 15 Silverado, is that what it is? Yeah. Six, seven-year-old Chevy Silverado extended cab we'd be trading in. You've got that. Plus, we've got a $7,500 credit with the dealer. That credit, what we're proposing to do is essentially roll into that plow package add-on. So it's the plow, the frame, the wiring, and there's actually a spray-on bed liner that we've lumped into that. And so the purchase price with all of those things included is about $49,525. So that gives us some of the different functionality that we'd be after. Gives us a little more size and still fit within the vehicle fleet as we've imagined trying to use it. And if you skip down to the loader, this one gets a little more confusing. We had looked at lease financing options. The reason you see five years, and there's a note on the six-year one, statute allows us to go up to five years, or as many as five years, before you have to go out for voter approval, and then it becomes more akin to bonded indebtedness. One vendor gave us six and seven-year options. We showed the six-year option just because they were closest in timeline. But if you did like one of those options and didn't want to go with the recommendation, we'd need to figure out when we could go to the voters for those six-year terms. Try to break it down into starting prices for the equipment. These are loaders that should meet all of our needs. They were sized appropriately. For that, there are two different options for the caterpillar ones, bigger than the other. And the bigger one does what you think it would in comparison to the smaller one, which is have a little more power. And then we've shown some of the payment ranges. Those came right from the vendor and tried to break them out, so you can see that. The recommended one would be a five-year lease to own. So at the end of it, we'd pay a dollar on that loader outright. There are seven-year warranty coverages on these pieces of equipment. So we'd be done paying the debt service before the warranty ever ran out. This would replace a loader that is about 26 years old, we think, 27 years old? 97. Yeah, the loaders are pretty valuable pieces of equipment. This one is up at the center garage, correct? Would be that one. And so we use this one for everything from loading trucks to snow removal to trees, yeah. So it's a pretty important front-line vehicle. There's another one down at the village, which we'll need to address at some point too. It's not quite as old as this one. I think that's in 0708 or straight somewhere there. That's right. And still is in decent shape. So this would be a lease payment we'd pay for out of that highway reserve. We've used this mechanism before for everything from trucks to pieces of heavy equipment. So let's just get into this game, replace equipment. It's also when we think long-term capital planning, in order to get sort of where we wanna be with equipment and vehicle replacement schedules, probably gonna have to mix methods for a while. It'd be nice to get out of the debt game, and be able to go straight to a save and purchase model, but that's gonna take some time, take some catch up. We're gonna get on a cycle where we trade in equipment when it has greater value that lowers the price. So there's a little bit of think of it as a staircase here. So this helps us get the equipment and vehicles we need while being mindful of how much is in there for resource, both currently projected. And then the vibratory roller, same set of circumstances. You can see same five-year terms in this case, comparing the two. So I do lower payment on one. We are using that one highlighted in green currently, primarily for pothole patching. So we've rented it for the month. That's a way to try it out. If we do end up going with the recommendation, that rental fee will be applied to any of these payment or purchase prices at some point too. So it's not, we get the service of it now, and there's a little bit of a loss leader, I guess you could think of it as. So those are the pieces there for that. For the three pieces of highway equipment, this was the conversation that started when we were looking mainly at an excavator. We figured out that we can go with a rental method there, get that for periods of time scheduled work around that. So it hits quite a few different categories of equipment need. So we made it all fit within the math, and that was available. What was there? And made sure that if for some reason there is, there's still room for the truck. Knowing that with finance, department staffing issues, we have lag sometimes in information. There's enough of a safety cushion that if for some reason there's a lag there, we're not gonna be over any kind of a barrel. We can afford everything we've committed to, if we commit to these things. Okay. Any questions? What's the, on the pickup trucks, were those diesel or those gas? The 3,500 GMC was the diesel. The F350 is the 7-3 gas motor. Okay. Let's see what the spec sheets look like. Right now it's about a $3 gallon saving, so do you look at us? Yes, but I'm not a big fan of diesel pickup trucks in those capacities. I mean, gas pickup trucks. So I would opt to pay a little bit more and end up with a GMC diesel than I would afford a gas car. That's just my opinion. Do you have thoughts, Tom? All right. No, I mean, I was blown away a little bit at the price that it's just for the diesel. I mean, you look at the GMC and it's just like, that's just the truck, you know? Not including the plow. I mean, we do unfortunately use our plows a lot. So to try to keep an older plow from the older truck, but on a new truck, it doesn't really make sense to me, but I, yeah. So the difference is about 15,000? Yes. So go to the. The only reason I really didn't want to go over the diesel is I mean, I've heard, I mean, obviously everyone has nightmares of the death and the electronics with the diesels, you know? I mean, some people have no problems. Some people have a lot of problems, you know? And that goes the same with the gas motor as well. So I just figured there was less things going on than with the gas job. By the aftermarket, black market, believe it. Right? Well, I own six of those Duramaxes and I can tell you that very minimal problems in any of them. And I've got them from 2007, clear up to 2020 to 2020. So I'm a really big fan of Duramaxes. And I realize it's a little bit more money, but I think you'll find that power, especially if you're going to use it for climbing, I think if you find you'd be better, better served with that pickup truck than you would be before gas truck. Johnny, with the plow, we'd be recycling the old plow to put on. So say we went with the GMC, we'd be using existing plow frame to try to fit. To this or we'd have to replace the plow as well? I think with the trade-in value we have on the existing truck we have now, the majority of the value they gave us between, I mean we had a trade-in value of 11,000 from one and 9,000 from the other. That's pretty much just what they're giving you trading on the plow. There's, I mean, the trucks, the truck we have now is pretty rough. I mean, lack of, you know, being took care of in one, you know, previous years. So I think that's a pretty shot of the value of what they've given us. So we'd need another nine to 11 for plow for the GMC or my personal opinion, I would replace the plow if you're gonna put it on a new truck. Listen, try to think about what everything includes. Right. That's an element now, you don't have to fit it. So you're actually, you're probably closer to the 75,000 to go with the diesel option. So we're at 25,000, Perry? Well, in my opinion it would be, but it's not my money here, it's the town's money, so I guess, you know, if you wanted to save some money, fine, but if I was buying those two trucks, there's no way I'd touch that board. Because it's a gas drop, and I just think that that's, my opinion is that that's a mistake. I don't own any gas trucks, except for one pickup truck I bought in 2013, and I wish I'd never bought that one. And that's the GMC too, but it's just, the gas trucks just don't have the power or the longevity that you're gonna find with the diesels. So if you go look online right now and see what used GMC Dermax as a word to be shocked, then I can literally sell most of the trucks I've got for more than I paid for them when I bought them. Right. The only reason I really wanted to go with the Ford is because I like the aluminum body, you know, just to help from the, you know, minimize the rust in a little bit because, you know, we are in the field, and I know they're still gonna corral, it's just gonna curl from the inside out, but. Have you asked Lebanon if they can get you a diesel? I haven't, I mean, that truck hasn't even arrived yet. That's not gonna be here until like the beginning of November. They've been pretty decent with us. And I think we did put a hold on it, at least put a name on it that way. We didn't get rid of it, you know, because I mean, they're selling as fast before they're even coming in. So GMC said it would be March, maybe before we could get a truck, what we were looking at getting. So maybe we need to ask Lebanon about getting a diesel and see what those two compare at. Right. Could do that. Yeah, I mean, none of these trucks are available right now, right? They're all sitting in a huge someplace. Yeah, the Ford is built and it should be here. You said in less than two weeks. Yeah, okay. Is it, can we get more information like we're talking about and do some sort of an email decision? Cause it sounds like if we do this that we want, this truck that's gonna be around in two weeks that we're gonna need to make a decision pretty soon before our next meeting. So somewhere we can. We may wanna have the conversation and see if, cause we do have a sort of a hold on this one. Maybe there's a way to essentially roll that over into a theoretical diesel model if we had to, if there was one available to hold the consideration open. Yeah, they'll do that, they'll swap it. This one will be sold before it arrives in the yard six times over. Whether we take it or not. Right, I just talked to somebody. They have to put them in inventory, even if you've ordered them. And before it even arrived in the yard, they have people calling and saying they want it. Right. It's crazy, you just can't get them. Right, but it sounds like we would be able to get this one. Yeah, this one has a, if we chose to take it. So that's worth something. Otherwise, you're looking at waiting until March at the earliest. And is the truck that we have now gonna, could it make it to March? Like we would be able to. It can, the inspection runs out in December. And I mean, it needs a lot of body work in order to pass inspection. I'm sorry, in December? Yes. Like this December, like in two months, it has inspection. Yes. Okay, so we can't wait until March to get a new truck. We need to replace this truck before December, before it's inspected. To get an inspection. Invest in Bondo? So it sounds like if you can go back to 11 and then ask them what the time is for a diesel. If it's not timely. Yeah, the diesel's in March too. And it's sort of the gas now or the diesel later then that might shape the decision as well. Yeah, I mean, from what I'm hearing, it sounds like if there's not a diesel available, we don't have much of a choice. We have to replace this truck soon. Or I heard the other day that 30% of vehicles haven't been inspected. They're out there on the road right now because people are bright at reasons whether they can't pass it or whether they're just not doing it or so we just run the risk, right? Live on the wild side a little bit for a few months. Sure, I'm comfortable making that as my official position. And we're gonna run a car. How they operate and put stickers on is in support of this decision. Of course, this is assuming that nobody in the room tells anybody. Or the recording doesn't go anywhere. The recording doesn't go anywhere. Well, we don't operate the day-to-day stuff. We don't need to know that, right? We didn't tell them what to do. So when Kim records the motion, it's gonna be to live on the wild side. Exactly. He's a pretty son. All right, so let's go on to the next one. So there was the Jeter. No, the loader. We got a loader and a vibrator, a vibratory roller to decide on. I don't know. Any questions on either of those? They're very happy with the roller. They brought it down here and even tried to get me on it. You didn't want to play? I did, but I figured I don't want to pay for everything else that I hit, so. If he doesn't want to ride, I'll take a ride. Sounds like fun. He had to operate it. Go ahead and operate it. Yeah, I was gonna say no rides, you just gotta ride it. Just run it, yeah, that's fine. Close it pretty easy. Use one of those hand, watch the compactors once. Yeah, that's one of them. A little nicer. A little nicer. That sounds good. Do you want to make a motion to proceed with the loader and the roller? Almost, but we proceed with the loader and the roller purchase. No second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Now we have Chris's equipment. The Jeter. Yes. Sounds very exciting. So our Jeter was purchased in, what was built in 99, it was purchased in 2000. What, for anyone that doesn't know, if we have a sewer plug or actually works pretty well with culverts too, it shoots water out of a hose and it'll pull itself up and it'll clean out the line so that everything will flow the proper direction. It's getting to that point where parts are hard to find because it's got a Ford 2.4 liter engine in it that they don't make anymore. So we were actually starting this discussion, we were going to get some numbers and come for budgetary purposes to start discussion and then the Jeter decided to have an attitude. It blew a seal on the pump. It works, but not very well. We reached out to the company that originally sold us the Jeter and they no longer make that model with that pump. They can rebuild it, but it was kind of one of those things, we can rebuild it and there's no guarantee that it's gonna work. And that's gonna cost us about 15 to 20,000 to get them up here to rebuild the pump and you cannot buy a replacement pump that fits in there. You have to do a bunch of modifying the whole system. So just on the note of that we were already kind of in the thought process and we've started talking with Trevor about coming up with a budget plan and stuff to replace it and now that things are kind of staring us in the face on it we've put together a bunch of numbers still trying to figure out if who's got what for financing options. Couple of them have given us quotes but they have to reach out and find out what their least financing options and stuff like that would be. Right now it currently ranges from 90,000 to about 120,000 depending on the models and what kind of specs they each have. If we don't have a Jeter it requires us to contract it out. Right now, PumpTech does not have a Jeter of their own so we don't have that next door capability like we used to have with Wind River and Wind River is about $500 to $1,000 per time that we need that machine depending on how long we have it for and that's like a day rate, hourly rate take deal. How often do you use it? When it's functioning properly we use it depends on where we are in our maintenance schedule we'll take like a month and we'll go through and clean a whole bunch of lines and then it will sit for a little bit but it also varies on backups, how many baby wipes people are flushing, how much grease people are putting down the line. Sometimes you can use it a lot in a short period of time sometimes it does sit for about a month but it's one of those machines that... So you would spend at least $30,000 a year in rentals at $1,000 a day More than like that. For 30 days Yes. In four years there's your 120,000 versus 22 years that you've had. What's the finances of the... It looks like they've got it at the waste... Yeah, it'd be the wastewater, fund reserve, there's plenty in there we'd have to tease out everything just to make sure we're not missing something given the transitions but it looks like at 120 whether it would be a lease payment certainly at a 40 plus or whatever it would be for the five years some really good math I would say 20, 25 to 30 per year for that. It seems like a good absorber that would be part of this exercise if you're okay with us fully modeling it out we'll make sure that we pull those pieces apart. I don't think you got much choice. No. It doesn't feel like it. Especially if you need it 30 days for maintenance plus to have it immediately available when you've got a... Yeah. It does really work if you have to borrow it to clean out powers when they're clogged. Couple of new ones have heat. They have heat options. They heat up the water. Actually, it's funny because some of the more affordable options have to heat whereas the real expensive one does not. I thought that was interesting. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I can see how that could be useful in the winter. Yeah. Well, John can speak to how it cleans out a nice, subculture. Yeah. The last one here was just so far. It was just so cold, a lot of cold which it froze. So we use that. It worked, but it took a little while. So you want to go and look at these and figure out what the financial side looks like. Come back with a recommended model and funding source or funding plan. And again, if you need it before the next meeting, we can handle it the same way we talked about doing the pickup. Sure. Any other equipment? I always wanted a motorcycle. That's the discussion when you get home. Wrong location, Trevor. In that case, I'll just write no. No discussion needed. All right. Does that give you what you need, Chris? What's that? That give you what you need? Yeah. All right. Next up is the discussion about the Randolph Center water system and fire district number one. Thanks, John. Thank you, John. So I don't know if the wastewater committee wants to provide the intro. If you guys want me to try it real quickly. This is a continuation of a conversation. I guess I'll just launch into it. Conversation that started at the wastewater committee level with the Prudential Committee members from fire district number one. There's split coming up about the long-term operating and other needs of that system. So that was kind of a generalized conversation on where the fire district is, what it sees its current needs are, future needs are. Leaving that conversation as a potential next step was to check in with the select board about what is everybody's thoughts, feelings about putting in time and effort into continuing that conversation. And to make sure that if we're going to dedicate some staff resources to it, we set them aside and make sure that we create that time for. So it's really about having a little bit of a conversation now and seeing if you want to dig into additional research, spend some time working through all the various questions that could come with whatever arrangement would come out of those conversations from assisting to something more comprehensive. So to provide you with a primer, I guess, we've got some folks here who can talk about certainly the fire district side, Chris, in terms of operating. Larry was in that committee conversation. So I don't know if I've missed anything in the quick summary there. That's the quick summary. All right. Well, that's easy. So yeah, we spent quite a bit of time talking about it in the wastewater committee. And as we talk more and more, we realize that the information that we really need to have to make any kind of recommendation. But we just didn't have that information and that it would require some resources to get that information, resources which the committee is not able to authorize. And so we decided we need to bring it to the select board to have a little discussion and talk about what we're willing as a town to put into resource-wise to acquire the information that we might need to bring this further along. Maybe somebody wants to talk about what you would like to see the town do. Raise this up. Sure, you don't need it even. You don't have to come forward or just do whatever you want, whatever makes you comfortable. My name is John Lenz. I'm the chair of the Prudential Committee for the Fire District. With us tonight is Patrick Giordano from Gifford. And online is David Rubin from BTC. He couldn't be here because of a medical situation. And also Bill DeFlorio and Bob DeLeo from the Fire District. We talked, actually, we proposed last year to the town manager's office a discussion about the idea of joining forces in some way to assist us because we are a volunteer organization. We have folks that are aging, including myself. And we don't have volunteers. So we do have revenue. We have revenue from our water sales. And so we approached the town about that. We had a meeting in September, September 13th or 16th here with the Water Wastewater Committee to talk about this idea. We reached the point in that discussion where it's a number of analysis that needs to be done on the town's part. We did provide our financials. And it was clear to us, actually, to the Water Wastewater Committee and St. Clary who was there. On behalf of that, this needed to be brought to the select board to get approval to spend the time, I think, by Chris and by Trevor to do the outside of the analysis to be able to continue the discussion. So that's why we're here. What role are you hoping the town does? What are the options that you're leaving because that'll make a difference in what we actually think we need for data or information. Right, so the role would start with operations and maintenance. So the day-to-day operating of the system. And also, there are the financial aspects of issuing the invoices and collecting the payments. And that's on the fire district side. So we have about 52 customers. We have half of the Randolph Center water system. That system is a state designated number 5177, water system. VTC has the other half, about half in terms of pipelines. They have the water storage tank. We actually have 50,000 or about 20% of the capacity of that storage tank allocated by the state. And we're looking at, because we are a volunteer organization and we don't have volunteers to get those services that need to be done. And we looked at private entities to do that. But they're not particularly as promising as the town. This is really an extension of what the town already does for the water wastewater. So it seemed logical that it would be an expansion of what's already done there. So that's the minimum. If there needed to be some greater role by the town, I guess we could consider that. But we're looking at the operations from a day-to-day water system and then the financial aspects. And am I missing anything? Do you have a fund large enough to cover the costs of that? Or is that something you need to figure out what that would do to your rate to change to a model that you had? We don't know what the town water wastewater system would need to have for compensation for that work. We know what we get for income. But I think the next step was to find out what the town felt and needed to have for compensation for doing this extension. That's essentially what I understand of where we are. You provided the financials. Did you provide anything that gives us an idea of the condition of the system to know what the maintenance needs and replacements? Yeah, we've done an asset management plan that was done two years ago. And that is in the package that we gave. And so we don't have any immediate pressing needs, nothing hanging on by a band-aid. But we have aging pipes, particularly. They're pipes that are reaching 75 years. So they're on the list of the higher priority repairs or actually replacements. So we actually, in that asset management plan, have a schedule that was prepared as far as the financing for that through a bond. So we're ready with the asset management plan, or the system is to start going to a design for the replacement of the next generation of infrastructure that needs to be brought to a more modern life. Is that a lot of it that needs to be replaced? No, I mean, it's in the plan. I mean, you can take a look at it and decide what you consider a lot. But I don't think it's, I mean, it's not all the, it's not all, does anybody remember what the percentage is of the types that we're thinking would be first? Essentially, we looked at a schedule, prioritize the risks, the criticality, and the age in terms of when it needs to be replaced. Or our engineer did, and they came up with a schedule of what we should be prioritizing for repairs. Or replacement, I shouldn't say repairs, these are just replacements. We don't have frequent breaks. I think we were saying that we have less than one per year, typically. But we don't want to get, I'm sure, the way you don't want to get to any infrastructure that's breaking a lot. And we say we're spending more time and money fixing than we are just replacing the stretch of pipe. As far as what's happening on the Morgan-Warchwoods campus, in the future of the assisted living potentially being added to that, how does that affect what you're doing in Randolph Center? Has that already been considered in the infrastructure that's on that property, or do you have to consider that as you move forward? So they are our customer. Right. Or their user. Right. And we're not looking at changes in our system to account for any specific changes in what Gifford's doing. So that's not going to affect your replacements as far as volume, water volume, and so forth? Well, if it's a question of what to demand. I'm asking about growth. Yeah. How does that affect what you have to do? We don't know what that growth is. We don't have a specific request from Gifford that I'm aware of on the growth. We know that there's some plans for expansion, but we don't know what those specifically are. What we're looking at is maintaining our current system and our current state, right? If you have a large development that's gonna take place, any growth needed in the system goes lots of times as a conversation with the developer, and they actually invest in that usually and provide something if it's gonna drastically change your system. So, and I don't know that that would be part of this analysis, because we're not looking at any of that. We have nothing to go on, nothing to make that judgment on. Right, okay. I'm only concerned that we are not fully staffed right now and we are kind of piecing together to keep everything operating here right now. I don't know if the timing of this is great to reassign folks that are already reassigned to make this a priority, but I would say once we have a finance director on that could dig into this, it would make sense and have that person once they kind of understand their functions and what they got there to sit down with Chris and look at this. I think the asset management plan is gonna play in key here because somewhere you need to understand also kind of what that means. Like if this is what you're looking at for work that has to be done, what is the, you know, what are you looking at for requirements? I mean, you're gonna have to do it anyway, right? So what is your, somewhere in there you need to be building some type of finance model that looks at not just keeping the existing functioning but doing these replacements and then what does that look like if you're having to hire somebody to operate it and manage it for you? Patrick, do you have anything you wanna add or? Franko? No, I mean, you know, here from Gifford Medical and Patrick Giordano facilities director there. Obviously we have a vested interest in the system with our campuses there. I think they've done an excellent job with maintaining the system that they have, upgrades with pump systems, et cetera. But again, looking to the future, you know, knowing that you've got a department that's doing a very good job here locally, you know, it would, it lends itself to that, you know, in the future. And again, as that area and Randolph Center continues to expand, there's potential there as well. Yeah, I just been looking at both sides of this and the town's gonna wanna know what we're going into, right? What are we committing for resources and what has to be done but the users up there should wanna know too, like what's our, what does this look like? I think that's part of what this discussion is looking to spur that interest to continue down that pathway with the town. Yeah, and the only concern I have right now is our staffing level as we're bringing on some new managers and getting them adjusted and kind of finding a finance person to dig into that role because I think the finance side is pretty important. And then on Chris's side, him having time to dig into kind of that asset management plan and what does that look like and how do you get numbers around it? You know, it's easy to say we need to replace 20% of the system but what does that really mean? Yeah, and again, I think looking into that today and having that interest to then partner with the Prudential Committee to look at that together with what they've provided and then just move down that pathway just a starting point. Yep, and maybe Larry and Perry feel differently but I'm just concerned that we don't have the staff to pull off what they have to do today to keep the town functioning. You're not alone. To commit to that project right now and I'm not saying it's not important and I'm not saying we're not interested in that we shouldn't go down that path. I'm just saying it probably isn't gonna happen tomorrow. We also have Dave Reis. I mean, Dave Reis, Dave Rubin from BTC Update. Can you hear us? Is there anything you'd like to contribute from your side as the co-operator and owner of this entity? Only that the Fire District is a value partner and we have a long history of working closely together. I would say I would add that we also have done a recent AMP analysis on our side of the infrastructure as well so we have new data there. I guess that's about what I would add there, John. Okay. I think, so in this asset management plan was actually undertaken by the Fire District but it included BTC. So we did the whole number 5177 water system. I think what's important to remember is it's we're actually part of the town. And so it just started as a volunteer operation when things were three villages. And I think around 1850 if I'm right. And the Fire District itself's been around as that in the supply of BTC since 1939. And it's gone to the point where volunteers just don't exist. So I think we're in this together as far as being in Randolph, Randolph Center. So we think it's, I think it's, and I think we all think that it's very important that we do move ahead with this because if we lose people, we don't have people that will run this. It's very welcoming to hear you say the Fire District feels like they're part of the town and one because usually we get up against them and they're like, we're independent and we're our own. And so it's good to hear the chain in that. That's not the case. I mean, we're here, we serve a chunk because that's where our system is. We think it may, it seems to me to make some good business sense. Just look at it from the business point of view that we're not a large piece being added on. We're actually really pretty small piece I think compared to what's already there. And so there's some sharing of resources, staff, excuse me, equipment, synergies and buying power and that sort of thing. Just keep in mind that when you point to the water, wastewater, that's a whole separate piece of the town. It's in its own fund and the users pay for that. So while it's part of the town, it's definitely, it's user based and even when we bond for stuff, the bond payments are paid by that user group. And so we would need to be looking at this the same way. Whether it's a separate entity or however it's managed that that's a user group. Right, we're aware of that. We're not gonna. Well, just the way the fire district is actually. Yeah. We're an entity that is self contained. So that's why we think it's important. We started on this. We've been at this for a while. We talked to VTC at first and the idea of maybe they can expand, but there's a lot of change that happened with the state college system. So we've approached the town and we've been at this for over a year, frankly. And so we think, I think it's important from everybody's point of view to get some numbers at least to see where this can lead. If the answer is it can't lead anywhere, that there's a combination of things done between the water wastewater and us. We need to know that soon. Now not to pressure you, but I don't know how much effort it is. Do you have any sense of how much effort this would take to do this number crunching? I don't. It would be starting from scratch. And it would be something, frankly, that based on our staffing capacity, you're talking about me right now in terms of who that's on. Yeah, I mean, this at a minimum. And I'm not, again, non-minimum, I'm not saying it's not important. This is at minimum the 58th thing in line right now. Including the water supply project, we've already started that we have to really be managing all the different funding streams, finding the funding for and getting moving. So it's just, we're not talking about a little bit into some open capacity. We're talking about more on top of more as we try to patch it through. So not knowing fully what the exercise is at not having mapped it and then being mindful of it's, Chris and I really, doing the different pieces, I don't know. Well, okay. What do you have when you look at your group? How do you set your rates and do all that? Does somebody do an analysis of that to figure out what your rate structure is and? Yes. Yeah, I mean, over the years, we raised our rates for the first time, I think in 25 years, maybe three or four years ago, looking to catch up. And yes, so we have this credential committee looks at the finances on a regular basis. We look at what's necessary to make sure that we're staying on the positive. And so have you done like a five-year look? That's in the asset management point. I haven't seen it, so I don't know what's that. Okay, yeah, yeah, so there's a look forward for that. It's a matter of, I think the same thing that the town's going through, which is people, but you're looking at the people here. Well, you're looking at the people here. Right, right, so I guess, as I said, we are all in this together. I suppose if you could tell us what you needed to know, we could try and put something together on our own. In other words, we're happy to do some legwork, but we need to move ahead. You know, I just want to be really direct about that. We do need to move ahead with something. And so if you told us we needed X done, we could see if we could get those resources together. I mean, we do have some knowledgeable people with finance. Who passed the asset management plan? Did you get that? Have you seen that? I think we've all got to move on with it, but it's one of those things where, you know, it's not true. I'm just wondering who has it. If somebody forwards it to me, I'll look at it and see what's in there. So if you're an arning sent, yeah, we probably could. It's a big plan and it's a big document. It's mapping all the infrastructure, but the short part is... There's a summary that says this is a replacement schedule. This is a... Exactly. It talks about how to get financing. Right now, I think the other thing that's important to bring up is, as you know, there are funds available like there have been for a long time and probably won't be for a long time. And so, now's the time to start looking at replacing that hardware, you know, that infrastructure. And the fire district's not eligible to apply in most cases. No, they're not. We can. But, you know, these are the people, you know, I have a full-time other job. And so, we're looking to spread the resources. And we've talked to private entities, but they're really not set up to do that. And if we could pay them, then it would seem that we could pay the talent. So, that's why we came to the talent first. Okay. Yeah, if somebody sent me the AMPL, look at it and see if it's got kind of what we would need to build out something. And that's what I can offer you. Okay. So, I can't give you any other dates because I think we're in a... We have some staffing issues too to work through here, but I'm willing to look at the AMP and see what's in it and if it's got the data that would show it. And then we can, I'll come chat with you or whatever we can figure out kind of what the time commitment would be for somebody to do the operations maintenance. And I gotta believe the billing is minor, right? Once it's set up, it's like billing the rest of the system. It just would have some type of coding difference to... Also, there are 18 users of the source system that get their meters read on our system. So, out of the 52 or so, there's already folks coming up to do readings. So, I think you're right that the financial billing and that sort of thing is small. And we can sit down and talk to you, Chris, and others about what time we spend on it. In other words, what the effort is. And I think that's already happened a little bit. I think we have the conversation in September about what that might take in terms of how many hours a week would be added on. So we realize that there's more that your waterway source system would need to do, but we have revenue to compensate for that. And I think the question is, how much revenue do you need? Right. Well, if it's a standalone entity, then you'll have to track your time and charge your hours into that account. And so, it'll be what we need to be able to tell you is about x number of hours by these different employees at this rate is what's gonna get charged into that account. The same way we do now, you track your time and you charge to the water district or the sewer district, or sometimes... Sometimes it's a high way, we're high way, right? Yep. So I think the accounting systems in play there to do it, it's that if I was on your side, I wouldn't wanna go into it blind. I'd not wanna know about how many hours is somebody gonna be charging that your user group is gonna have to cover, right? You wanna know what it's gonna cost. What's it gonna cost you if you went with the model in the town to the... Well, that's the question, right? Yep. Yep. What's your contingency plan if you all are gone tomorrow? What happens as the water stops flowing or? The water will still run because this doesn't need somebody there every day. But there isn't a plan, that's the problem. Right. There isn't a plan. I mean, we're not a municipality that has... BTC in the hospital, we're stepping up. Right. Have you put out a query for new members? Yes. Nothing's happened. No. Interesting. So we'll get the plan and look at it. And then see where that goes. Is that true? I don't know what you guys committed to in there. This is our contingency plan. I'll wait at the middle of the meeting. You know the one that doesn't have to be there. Yes. All right. Does that work? Yeah, I'll get my hand. We'll get the hold of the plan and look at it and digest it. Please feel free to call us if there's something that's not clear or... Oh, I will. Does that have information? I don't know. Anything else, Dave? Anything else? Yeah, just, you know the two big entities that we are connected to. And so that's why they're here and why that's important overall for the community. Okay. Thanks. I mean... Next up is Bethany Church Wastewaterville adjustment request. So they had some high bills randomly, and they weren't real sure what had happened. They called on us. One of my guys went into the leak inspection. I don't know if I dated when he went in, but he didn't find anything at that point. I've got the toilet issues, but they had speculated someone had used an outside spigot left it on. So that's what we kind of ran with. Well, they have another one. They went one quarter where they were normal, and then they got another quarter where they were really high, total of $2,600, $2,575. And so they called on us again. They said, let me get back in there. Luckily, someone had, luckily for me finding it, that someone had used the outside spigot and it was a frost-free valve that was mounted the wrong direction. So the water had collected in the bottom on the inside and froze and popped the pipe. So any time they turned it on, it sprayed water inside the basement. And they get pressure washed, boards, all kinds of stuff. And it was visible water on the floor when I had gone in. That's what led us to really finding it right away. So we brought up their past history usage. And other than the two quarters that where they had not really high bills, they were always right around the minimum or less than the minimum. Their average was below the minimum. So that leads to the adjustment. I wrote it down here. I'm not gonna, for a 123 units, which drops them down to the $1,537.50, which is just the wastewater portion of the bill. It's unused wastewater. It didn't go down the drain. It physically went on a dirt floor basement. And your committee looked at that. They were good with it. Questions, anybody? Getting questions, Barry? Motions? No, I'm also, I make a motion to, you have a reduction of $1,537.50. I'll second that. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Nguyen, precision discharge agreement. So as you guys recall, a few months ago, we discussed the lens copper limits concerns that came up. That was kind of the big factor. The committee wanted to revisit the discharge agreement just to update the parameters. Also, the state wanted the most recent document for the pretreatment permit. So by doing that, we kind of adjusted some things other than some clerical error thing, clerical pieces throughout the agreement. The biggest notorieties are an increase on the BOD and the TSS demand from 16 pounds to 45 pounds and 42 pounds. Those numbers are the 5% max load before the state trigger. That's just kind of what the state, they cannot do any more than that. They pay a surcharge for anything that goes over the 250 milligram number that comes in as part of the testing. So therefore, anything above and beyond that, they pay us a surcharge. Anyways, this just caps them out. They can't go over 45 pounds per day. And that's for the wastewater plant specs. That's the maximum for 5% if they were to do that. I don't believe they'll be anywhere near that once they get their new system online to address the lead in copper, but those were the numbers the committee felt like they wanted to go with. We're good with that one too? We took a lot of information from Chris and from the state over the past few meetings, looking at this issue closely, and we feel comfortable that this is a good plan. Any questions, Barry? Nope, I'm good with that. Entertain a motion. I'll make a motion to authorize the company and respond on our behalf for the discharge agreement with England precision. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. To help you finish out your list, we'll skip over the next one and we have an appointment to the Water Wastewater Committee of Maury Smith. That's on Maury Ham. No, they get to work with him too. That's right. Maury is a longtime member of our community here in Randolph and he's also a member of the Water and Wastewater District as a consumer user. And he has already started to attend meetings and is very excited about being on the committee. He thinks it's pretty interesting stuff, which I wholeheartedly agree. It's a great committee. It's a good thing people like different things. It's an unsung committee, it really is. All sorts of cool stuff comes out. So anyway, we very much are in need of additional numbers so that we can make sure that we always have a quorum and additional eyes on what we're doing. So I would very much like to see Maury Smith approved as a full-time member of our committee. That was a motion, right? It was indeed. We think very... We're fine. Larry's gonna make a motion, right? He already did. I was there at the time. Those in favor? Aye. Aye. Post? Motion carries. There you go. Thanks Chris. Have a good evening. You too. Let's see, we're gonna go back one to the East Valley Community Group use of the community hall. We've kind of been in out here with this. The latest question is on whether what it would take or if there was the ability for them to use the hall three seasons of the year that included, there was an email that came out and included them doing some upgrades for ADA accessibility and bathrooms. But the question before they go and do a business plan and do all that work is would the town allow them to use the building three seasons of the year? The only concern I have is we know there's no insulation. We know the windows are not good. Who's paying to heat the space beyond? We do minimal space now, right? So the office for the fire department and the bathroom is in there for the fire department. So we heat a minimum space, but is the town willing to take on the cost of heating it or the cost of doing repairs so you could heat it or and where does that discussion belong? I'm not sure if we hang on just a minute, Betsy. I'm not sure where that conversation needs to happen or what it needs, but I don't know that we have all the information and I think that group is still working on a business plan and what that would look like, but where does this is gonna keep coming back? As we've seen, we're not doing that. We're doing that, we're doing that. So, does it go to the budget committee to talk about prioritizing? Does it, where does it, what does that look like? What does it look like to heat that space, you know, and what does that cost currently? And what would that be if you heated the, I gotta believe it just sucks the fuel to try to heat that space in the wintertime or the cold months, but as a matter of fact, I know it does back in the day, but. It can't be, we can't hear you. We'd have to go into the bills just into the invoices, because we don't break heat out that way right now in terms of, in a way where we could easily select a report and say it was this amount in this fiscal year. So it's not a difficult exercise, especially with K-Lon board, that could be something we could pull out in terms of get a multi-year kind of average as it's been in this holding pattern to at least say, since we've owned it, or even going back, yeah, as far as to when we took ownership a few years ago, this is what we've spent each fiscal year on. I think it's propane might be the heat source, I forget which, but we could pull them that way, but we'd have to, a little bit of investigative work, but not anything too onerous. But that usage is only heating to a certain temp. Yeah. And only for very minimal use. Yeah. You know, I don't know how you then use that data to figure out what would it cost to. And I think, honestly, one of the things we talked about, that the office space in the bathroom for the fire department is also what keeps that in Tanglement Open. They had their own facility, say, in a meeting room over there. We probably winterized the building each year and even have held it that way whenever the insurance and safety related closure came down. So that element is the reason that we do heat to that minimal standard currently. So. Can Harold do some look into like what, what that, like what does it mean if we continue where we are now and expand the time in which the building was available versus what it would cost if we put in a bathroom and meeting area into the existing fire station to be able to separate those two. Remember some of the conversation that's taken place in all these was about separating the buildings anyway and letting a non-profit or somebody else take that building over and do what they wanna with it. So, you know, it may not be just an exercise and information, it may be kind of step one and that, but the problem is your power, all that is tangled in through that building. Yeah, one actually runs through one to get to the other. So your, your power lines and your communication lines, you know, those would all have to be part of it. If you're gonna look at giving, making it so the fire station is completely independent of that building. This is to me like if you were. Andrea, hang on a second. It's board discussion right now, but then you gotta, we'll have to pull that septic permit too. But I believe when we permitted that, we intentionally permitted it to be able to put a bathroom in that fire station. I'm not mistaken. Were you around for that? Before my time. I think we did. I think we did a larger capacity to tie the, to be able to tie the two in together, which it's not gonna matter, right? Because there's no leech field, you gotta pump it anyway. Yeah. Now we just went through that exercise for, it was a little less than $3,000 I think to do that recently. Training? Yeah. Yes, Betsy. So our question, which I guess is new was that initially we thought we had to really fix the foundation and everything in order to get back in the hall. In order to use the hall again for anybody to use it again, it's really the fire marshal code and the ADA that has to be fixed. And so our question was, if all of those were fixed, could the hall be open to rent to others, not this group, okay? It would be income coming in at least three months out of the year. And if all of those fire marshal codes were fixed, it sounds to me like you really, you as a select board want to separate the building from the fire station and have it managed or owned by somebody else. We don't wanna put a lot of time into putting our little plan together about what it would cost to open it up and what the current expenses are and what income could be. It sounds like we should just drop a little idea. Am I correct? That's not quite how I understood it. Pardon me? What we need to understand is what it would cost to run that building. So the conversation was over figuring out what the heat bills are and the expenses are and how you use that data since it's such a minimal use to try to expand on what that would cost the town. If it's gonna cost us $20,000 to heat that thing in the wintertime, we're probably not gonna be too apt to say, yeah, go ahead and make a couple hundred dollars on rent. So the issue is, I think is what is that cost gonna be to the town before we're willing to say yes to something like that. But the other topic that's out there is separating it from the fire station and that came up while we were out there, for folks that don't understand, the power comes into the hall, then goes through the hall and out the hall to the fire station on another panel in the back and the communication lines do the same and the firemen have to go out of the fire station into the hall to use the bathroom and to have their meetings because when the fire station was built, there was no bathroom built in it. So some of this is just making that fire station so it's functional and they don't have to involve two. But also if it's gonna be extremely expensive to heat that hall in the wintertime, the option to drain the pipes and shut it down for the wintertime ought to be there without impacting the fire department. So I think we've gotta have all that data in front of us to make a decision on that. Okay, well, we'll go ahead with our presentation that we want to give to you if possible. We'd like to do it next month and you'll have the information about the costs, I guess from somebody. Well, we'll have what we can do. And I know there's nothing, we can't predict what heating's gonna cost in the future. But your rental fees can go up along with all of those costs. Right now you've got nothing coming in to wait to no revenue coming in at all to help violate any of those expenses. So I know there could be a lot more revenue coming in for this building. We just, we, as a committee, we turned down in October, we sent four different people away that wanted to know about they could rent the building for a meeting or for a day. So I think there's, I think there's more, with a lot of marketing now and things like that, I think there's a lot of things that can happen. So we'll, anyways, I wanna take up any more of your time. And we'll bring what we can. We are not asking for funds. We were trying to come up with the funds ourselves and help with the town because you've got a lot on your platter. Okay. So next, if we could be on the agenda for next meeting, we'll try and get the documents together and get them to the select board prior to the meeting. I think we'll look, let's wait and see what we can gather on the rest of them of the costs on the, from the town side. And then if we can get the two together. We're gonna need that information anyways. And so I'm not, I'm saying we're not gonna put it on the agenda until we know everybody's gonna have the information together they need to put all of it on. Okay. And then we can look at that. All right. Any other? I'll have to give myself deadlines. Oh, you can. We'll let you. Any other questions, comments? I guess what I was gonna offer is that, that's, he's right. There's a lot of rental opportunity. And we know from the chamber that we have a lot of requests for meeting rentals and party rentals and wedding rentals. And it seems to me that the revenue that the committee could accrue through their marketing abilities and management could offset all the costs you're talking about in the carry. And I certainly can understand the size of the building and the condition it's in. If it were to be closed down from January 1st to March 31st, they wouldn't lose an incredible amount of revenue over the winter. But to have those other nine months of the year available for rental and availability of that space, I'm sure they could cover the expenses and costs that it takes to carry that building. And it would offer a really nice additional. Andrea, they're looking for volunteers on their committee to help them come up with their plan. Let me volunteer for anything else. But I fully support it with what they're doing. With East Randolph, another growing community, I know there'd be more use in the future than you've seen in the past. And we desperately need community space within our area. So that would be a good one to add to it. And is there any money out there through Efficiency Vermont to help with some of the majorization that's needed there? Not on that one, probably. No, okay. Okay, we're gonna move on to the next agenda item, which is an appeal, signed permit appeal. Cool, then. Mark is on here, he's your sign officer. The sign ordinance sends the appeals of the sign officer's decision to you as the select board. So here we are tonight. You have materials from Mark in there. You can take you through any of those. Justin's here as well to answer any questions you might have about anything he's supplied or hear his perspective. And that's the general queuing up for why we're here. Okay, so there was a sign permit applied for was denied. The appeal that came in was based a lot on that it was an agriculture activity exempt from the sign. I believe I heard that Mark did some follow-up with the agency at Ag on that. Hey, Mark, are you? You wanna jump on? Yes, okay. So, yes, we did follow-up. Just to put it all in a nutshell, Justin came in and applied for a sign permit for the Splitter Island at 1212A, 25th of August. We reviewed that. I think he kind of knew going into it based on a conversation that was gonna be a problem. There's a long history of sign issues on the Splitter Island. But his long-term objective was to be able to exercise his rights to be able to express an opinion to maybe change the policy in the future. And he recognized the need to follow procedure to do that. So he applied for a permit in this case for a temporary sign and the permit was processed on 25th on the 30th. I denied the sign based on the standard language in the sign ordinance, which was updated in 2020 in part because of the longstanding history of issues in this Splitter Island, but also the ongoing commercial activities and established businesses don't have the ability to put any signs there ever. And so Justin's primary argument for the appeal was that he is neither an ongoing commercial activity or an established business. So he reached out to the folks at the state. The state responded, provided a letter back and that letter stated that you are in fact a farm. You're also a small business farm, but according to RAPS, you still have to follow the rules and guidelines of the municipality and they concurred that a farm is in fact an established business. So the permit was, the sign permit request was denied. Okay. And so your appeal is based on why do you feel you don't have to follow the sign permit? So I disagree with Mark's interpretation of the letter from the Department of Agriculture. They did not state that we're an established business. They did state that we're a farm, but that's as far as they went. So in regards to zoning, specifically building requirements, farms are exempt from local zoning regulations. You can pretty much build whatever you want as long as it's related to the farm operation. And furthermore, the legislature just passed, I think it's 145 or 165, that allows for on-farm accessory uses that a lot of farms are doing agritourism type activities where they're hosting weddings or on-farm events that aren't necessarily farm-oriented as much as it is just bringing people to the farm. So, and a lot of people are having trouble with local municipalities saying those activities weren't allowed. Have you been told they're not allowed? No, the Act 165 gave exemptions to those type activities from local zoning. But they appeal as over the sign. Right, so my opinion is that we're not a commercial business or an established business. So we should not fall into the same guidelines as the local gas station or we're advertising our agriculture operation. Is a farm exempt from the sign ordinance? There's no specific language, anywhere's in the state currently that specifically refers to that. So it's a difficult, it's- May I interject? So the letter from the state says, and I quote, the farm operation determination does not exempt the farm from compliance with any provisions of the raps or any other laws or regulations. So it does in fact state that even though you are deemed a farm you still have to follow the rules and regulations and in this case also the sign ordinance regardless. And to go, and again, just for argument, just for clarification, Act 143 is called the accessory on farm business and you're right, the Act 143 was established in 2018 and the idea was to help farms generate revenue so they can be viable businesses, which is awesome. And we totally support that. However, the right on the title page or the act, it says that the farm must meet municipal requirements that are in place for any other business in the municipality. So again, 143 is designed to absolutely promote business. The municipality can't stop you from having another business on your farm and they want to. However, they make it clear and they bend over backwards to make it clear that you still have to follow the guidelines of other businesses. They're just making it clear also that they have your back just like the town has your back to be able to have other ideas, have other ways to make sure the farm is viable. But Act 143 and no, I mean, it is crystal clear in terms of what it says. And then if you go to the raps which is the program that farms must follow, it's very clear in raps that there are no exemptions in raps at all, aside from spreaders and how they can spread their manure in the winter time on an individual basis. So I respectfully disagree with Justin. But the raps do give specific exemptions in regards to building zoning. But the question in here tonight is a sign. No, I didn't say that. And it sounds like it's pretty clear you gotta follow the same rules as everybody else. Well, if you look at your packet, there's a lot of pictures that I said, did you get these? Mark said he was gonna include them in your handout. You did send them along, so. I stopped somebody from putting a sign in there on Saturday as I was leaving them. But there's our signs we take down every night. We're only up when they're open. There's many signs throughout town that stay up all the time, full time. I guess I'm gonna say yes. We probably have an enforcement issue, but I'm still not seeing where you feel like because your neighbor has a sign up longer than you would like. That means you get an exemption. I'm not seeing in statute or anything that there's an exemption for you. My argument is it's not clear that we're a commercial business. And if you look at other zoning issues that farms are exempt from those, from other businesses, that other businesses are obligated to follow. And this issue hasn't come up on a state level for them to really make a clear determination. And I did at the Farm Bureau meeting the other night propose a proposal that the state look at this issue and address it because there's not clear language within the state to allow, to clarify this either from the zoning administrator's part or from the farm's part. But it sounds like language that says you have to follow all the other municipal rules is pretty clear. So then I'm happy to send those over to you, Justin. And just so you see, I can highlight in yellow where each of these are very specifically written within RAPS, within Act 143. And I'll also point out that it says that in 143 that receiving a farm determination does not override the need to consult and work with the town. And so every step of the way, while the state wants to help maintain the viability of farms, they're also saying that on one hand, they totally want your business to succeed. On the other, they wanna make sure that you work with the local government to be able to achieve that. And that's exactly what we're trying to do. I understand your frustration. You've mentioned how it's important for you to have a sign there because it brings spontaneous business to your accessory business. But what we're saying is the sign ordinance was put together, there was a lot of thought and effort put into it. And there are only two places in the sign ordinance that are very specific in one of which is where you're trying to fight to put a sign. And I don't think you're gonna find there's gonna be any luck there because there are many issues in that space that create problems, traffic, there are accidents that happen there all the time. The town is constantly pulling up signs there and I've really expressed an interest to the town and asked them to be lenient on your signs there because I really wanna work this out with you. I don't want you to feel like we don't support your farm. What I wanna do is come to terms with this so we can focus on the next part which is your words and your interests to perhaps change the policy in the future. We don't have the resources to be able to go on and argue this point over and over again. It's where we're short staffed, Trevor is tired. This has taken the other part of my job, the economic developer job, is where I can really help you. And I'll just be candid. This has taken a tremendous amount of our time and nobody's trying to stymie you from having a successful business. And believe me, I wanna see you do well but you're barking up the wrong tree to try to get a sign at the Splitter Island because it is crystal clear and the state is behind us and you could appeal it as many ways as you want. I don't see myself clear, I don't see myself clear. They're in every section that you, in your appeal letter that you argue it's not a letter directed to you from the state that says what you just stated. The letter that the state, the letter that the state sent you and me is very... That's very gravitational. But it's not my interpretation. The law that he just read says that you have to follow all the municipal rule. A sign ordinance is a municipal rule. What I'm asking you is where do you have something that's in statute or you have something because it's your job to prove to us that you don't have to follow this. And I haven't been proven that yet. I'm using the other exemptions that are allowed in other zoning issues and I'm saying there is no... But it's not zoning. Signs are not zoning. A sign is an ordinance. It's not a zoning ordinance, it's not a zoning when the zoning administrator is... It's its own stand-alone ordinance. The sign ordinance is its own ordinance. It's not part of the zoning regulations. It's not part of any of the other ordinances. But farms are exempt from noise ordinances, farms are exempt from hours of operation ordinances. But in this case, Justin, you have a state law that says you have to follow the municipal ordinances. Justin, I've doubled back. I've asked numerous people, and again, I'm not trying to make your life miserable. I'm just telling you that next year, the town is gonna start enforcing the sign ordinance and we're trying desperately to make sure everybody has a fair understanding. So next year, there aren't gonna be financial fines that are assessed to people. And we just, because we don't have the resources, if you do put signs up there, the fine is gonna very quickly escalate to $800 a day. And based on what I've communicated or discussed with the state, you will have to end up paying them. So why don't we focus on other ways? I can put my other hat on, the Economic Development Director hat, to help you actually figure out ways to grow your business and not argue about a losing battle for you because I'm 99% certain you're going to lose in this case. Now you're threatening me. No, I'm just, what I'm telling you is I want to help you. It's just, this isn't the way to do it. I understand that, but this is how, I didn't put my sign up today. We got zero customers, zero. And I have everybody that comes in to the restaurant, not to the restaurant, to the store, we ask. And they all, 90% of them say they saw the sign and they came out. So it does, if I cannot have some type of sign, it does make zero sense to open up to business next year. And we will not open it. Well, you have options for signs, whether you get the highway sign that directs them or whatnot. But that intersection is spelled out specifically in the sign ordinance for a reason, Justin. It's not a safe spot. I know, but there's multiple signs that are there all the time. And they've been pulled up. No, some of them are still there today that have been there for the last two weeks. Well, I know some of them get pulled up on a regular basis when some employees are on their walks. You go out of the wedding that happened two weeks ago, the sign's still there today. There can be signs there that are one-offs for events like yard sales, and then the sign has to be taken up. It also has to be three by three. Your sign had six square feet on your application. It wasn't three square feet. And again, it goes back to the ongoing business. We can't allow one farm to have an ongoing business sign in the Splitter Island and not have anyone else who wants to have their business on the Splitter Island. So this, while I feel that you believe that we're coming after you in this case, this is about a uniform, fair and equitable rule for every meeting. And fair, you have Liberty Orchard, who has two signs, one on Ridge Road, and the other one is right at the intersection of BTC. And those are pulled down that way, and they're pulled over the six foot thighs, and that business isn't even in town. So you are being unfair and un-equitable. That is not true. Again, we don't have to do that. I have a silly maple that has over a 20 foot square sign that's permanently in, it's an odd premise sign, and it's adjacent to the, it's in the town right away, and it's there permanently. And I think you heard him say, Justin, they're educating everybody on these signs right now, and they're gonna start enforcement next year on them. Okay, can I say something? Go ahead, Barry. Hi, you didn't hear? So I think Justin is right in a number of cases regarding the signs that are all around the town, okay? And for businesses that aren't even in the town. And as somebody who sat on the planning commission and worked on the side in ordinances, I can tell you right now, we never anticipated that this kind of situation was gonna happen. So my suggestion is that we take Mark's suggestion and we work on the policies and try to figure out if there's a way that we can figure out how to make people comply with the sign ordinances and maybe we've got to change the sign ordinances again, okay, to get this little part of the sign ordinance fixed because there's a lot of violators. I don't think anybody's intentionally violating, but these signs are beneficial to their businesses. And I'd like to find a way to continue to get these businesses the kind of support we need because we don't really need to lose that anymore. Okay, we're starting to build back some here and I'd love to figure out how we can support them. And I think Mark is right. So we can figure out how to change that. We've got a few months here, we're gonna go into the winter season and I think we could probably make this a priority for the planning commission to go in and revisit this and get some input on what we think is okay. And you've got to deal with the whole state side of this thing because the state's the one that creates the basis to the sign rules. I mean, that's why we have no billboards. And I'm happy we don't have billboards but we also have to find ways for businesses to be found. Okay, and the state signs don't always do it. And I know that for a fact, because for years, I lived with the same problem. So I think it's time to send this back to the planning commission and get some public input and get Mark's assistance on how to maybe make this more palatable for everybody. Because I don't see anybody saying they have to find- This is a sunny hope from the planning commission. We'd be glad to take that on. Thank you, Sonny. Trinity, I just want to state, I'm not here to badger with Mark. Mark at the beginning of this process told me that I had to follow procedure. And that was by submitting the application. And then he told me that it's going to get denied and then I would need to appeal it. So I was following what Mark wanted to do or suggested that I do. And that's what I'm doing. We were closing this weekend for the winner. So after this weekend, it's really a non-issue. But next summer, I would like to be able to do something because we feel it's important for the success of it to, for our business to work. And hopefully the planning commission will feel that same way. But- One thing I'd like to add is the sign ordinance took account for traffic safety, okay? The Splitter Island is one of the most traffic-intense areas in the town. It's where 12way meets 12, okay? So any signs in there, if people are taking their eyes off the road looking at signs in that area, it's a hazard. Especially if that sign is too small to read. And the planning commission took that into account for any areas where there might be a traffic hazard if people had to slow down and try to reach something. So there shouldn't be any signs at all in that island. Trevor, is that state property? The island understood it to be ours. Our property inside the state's right away. Said we should have given up and let them put a T intersection there years ago. So on the appeal based on what we've been presented, do we have to act on it or do you want to withdraw it because you don't need the sign? I would prefer you act on it that way. I have the opportunity to appeal to the state if I need to. The, just for the record, the way it sets, these are, the appeal here is a, it's a binding appeal. The matter is finished. What you would take up for the state would be something entirely different on your own. In terms of- I think if you go to the environmental court, your decision. Yeah, you can, you can know it. Any select court decision could be appealed. Not any? Not any. You're thinking of a zoning based decision. This would be about the regulatory power. So if there's a court process for this, it would be through one of the different courts. Superior court. Right. This zoning would be environmental court. Right. Land use related stuff will go to the environmental court. So a DRD decision is zoning permit. Those types of things would go to environmental court. You could try. So do you want us to rule on it or you don't want us to rule on it? Well, what, what is it going to hurt to have you rule on it? I'm just giving you the opportunity to leave a direction. Rule on it, please. All right. So we have a signed permit appeal. Any other testimony on it? Any other information? Not seeing any. Anybody want to make a motion on it? Is it a motion or is it just a? Well, it's set up here as a agenda item. Yes, not just to be, just to be clear, the, the select board has 15 days to deliberate and issue an opinion on findings. The fact that we can, we can res, we can mail that to, to Justin. We don't have to, the board doesn't have to render an opinion tonight. You basically have two options for a motion. One is to uphold the appeal and to grant the application. The other one would be to deny the appeal and that would stand with the sign ordinance officer's decision. So you'd be upholding Marxist decision if you deny the appeal. You uphold the appeal and grant. You essentially be granting the, the application. And those are the, those are really the two choices. It is, I don't really have a story path. But you do have the 15 days to do it, but it's those are the, that's what you're trying to weigh out. Okay. I guess I was just wondering about procedurally, whether it's something which actually requires a motion to, to. Yeah. Cause. It's not quite a quasi judicial process, but it is cleanest if you end it with a motion so that there is some sort of action so that if there is an appeal avenue for the appellant, it creates that kind of due process framework as well, cause you've taken action. So there's been staff action. Now there's been an appeal. There's been the action to uphold, or to stay with the sign office's decision. The motion could be to the action we want to take and then to issue a formal notice within the 15 days allowed. Right. To allow for the preparation of a, like this is what it was based on. Yeah. Yeah, a lot like a DRV decision would be one way or the other where it maybe even lays out sort of, here's the process, here are the findings. Here's the conclusion of the board and whatever your decision is gets inserted there. And we do that with doc hearings, for example, for those same due process reasons. This one's full of some municipal wonkering with regulatory police powers and between land use and appeal pathways. It is, it's a fun one. Do you want to take action tonight in 15 days? I think we should just take action and move on. Yep. I agree with you. Justin, I just would like to say that I've been to your establishment for Creamies twice and enjoyed them very much. I'm glad that you're there. I think it's an important business and I've seen what you've done with that property over the last several years and it's been a big improvement. And I really deeply appreciate the effort that's gone into it and the economic aspect that it brings to the town. At the same time, it seems like this ordinance is really, really clear. And I don't think we have much of a choice in my opinion to deny your appeal and I would like to make that motion. Okay. Perry's still on there? Yep. You're muted if you're trying to back in there. Oh yeah, sorry about that. All right, so Larry made a motion. I'm going to second it. Is that we're doing? We're denying it? Yes. Okay. Well, then I second the motion. The motion and the second all those in favor? Aye. Aye. I'm writing for you. Thank you. Justin, just one last thing. I do want to work with you. So give me a call. We can talk about other ideas as well. Okay. Thanks, Mark. Thank you, Mark. Thank you, Mark. Okay. You too. Next up are assembly permits. We have an assembly permit for Halloween and another one for the 30th for pumpkin carving. Any reason we can't take these both at the same time? Think so same organizers basically, right? Yeah. Yeah. Complete with dancing. So I would say one dance. Questions, comments, motions. Motion to approve. Is that you, Larry? I was trying to say it so quietly, too. I know. You're hearing me. I had. That's amazing. Somebody. All right. I'll make a motion to approve the assembly permit. All of them. Cool. Thank you. Oh. That was easy. Larry's already done this. That was easy. We'll give you the second. I'll get the second. I'll be happy to second that. All those in favor. Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Other business. I don't have any for you. No other business. I have a question. If you don't mind just going back to the farm sign. Does he have the option to appeal to any of the adjacent business owners? No. No, okay. He has a way. He's got a good idea. Appeal it in court. Got it. We need to find a different software. Your neighbor's got it done. That's what I wondered is if he, in that spot, is there a neighbor. Oh, he talked to the gift store or to your mother. He could go and talk to somebody else. But then it's still an offsite. And can he do the green signs that go on the post? He could, sure, be trans. And some of it with this one was if that sign were the three square feet that Mark was talking about, and you put it, say, on the gift store property, and you got the permit, that all probably comports with that sign ordinance, and we're fine. The problem with the splitter island, in addition to the sign being too big, the splitter island is prohibited. Totally understand that. So it's kind of too different. But there's enough adjacent property there that it might be a sum of summaries. It might, yeah, fabric visually that he could order. We still got stuff on the agenda, so we're done with that. Thank you very much. I'm not going to solve that one so far. Come and see it. The paving is going to be moved back. We just heard from Pike the other day, so it'll be the week of the 24th. We're expecting to be on site with that million machine running on the 24th, and that this will be the last change. They're following all the state specs with regards to temperature, so we're not worried about finished products. It's just about the timing. And we'd like to have a set time so that we can tell the community, other partners, like the hospital, this is what we're doing when we're doing it. You can expect to see them in front of your house, business, whatever, playing ahead. So that's still moving forward. They've been finishing up a great number of other projects. Howard Hill's done. We've graded everything or come really close. They've been out pothole patching. They were doing some culvert dish line work along the way as well, getting ready for winter. So I think we've come a long way, very fast over the last month in having that roller on the scene. They went down to Hull Street. They put nine tons out the other day. And I think four or five of it went right up to Hull Street and the hole was there. And there was a similar experience on, there's a heart brace that they, quite a few there. Yeah, so we're trying to pick around sort of the side streets. Some of them where we know we have large holes that are gonna be addressed with a larger paving rather than don't pass all into it just to mill it up a week and a half later. So that's why I have anybody on Pleasant Street? Yeah. I was just gonna ask if there was a Pleasant Street one. That's it. So I can tell my staff. I was telling them this week. Yeah, so Pleasant Street and Main Street will be part of the mill and repave. So you'll see those will be a little more extensive to take a couple of days and then everything else will be sort of shim and overlay around it. So we're not patching potholes there because we're gonna do more. Right, but it's not happening till a week later than it was just set, right? A week for a Monday, yeah. Okay, perfect. I just wanted my staff to know so they know to. Right. Is that what I'm gonna tell them? Yeah. I'm gonna tell them. I don't know. So the staffing thing we mentioned a little bit. Paige is on here. She's the new REC director if you haven't met her yet. Try to find some time to stop and say hi. Kayla is in finance, doing the accounts payable utilities billing and has been a boon to our research capability. She's really good at, we give her a task and she goes and finds you what you need. That's been a really nice addition to. Unfortunately, as I mentioned to you the other day, we lost our finance director candidate who withdrew. He was due to start on Monday. We're gonna get the team together in there and try to figure out what a longer term plan looks like for this diminished capacity scenario. I may have to take on certain pieces that we were holding for that role. And then Cynthia from NEMRIC will take on some other pieces and we'll thankfully have someone else in the mix now to handle some of the accounts payable. We may have to bring in extra NEMRIC based resources. So some contract ones. We've been using one of their other employees to help us with payroll processing, for example. So that we can keep all the regular wheels moving. But some of the stuff to give an example of what's been kind of held. Since the summer it's, we're talking about tax payment agreements and it's tax due date time. To some of those things that a finance director has done in sort of a delinquent tax collector role in that case. We're gonna figure out how to pick those up so that we can get those done sooner than later. So that was less than ideal news to get the other day. It was due to some changes in commute time tide. An infrastructure project that was gonna be a couple of months over two summers turned into an 18 month at least full on bridge closure. This person lives just across the river. So now they gotta be that and it just didn't work for their schedule. They could just park their car on the other side of the bridge for 18 months. Walk through the zone, yeah, not that, yeah. I can pitch that. The winger over right, put her in the left. Just the pole balls or something. Clean, I didn't hear a thing. How complicated could it really be? Get her hair pumping, she doesn't need coffee, right? If you do that. Save a lot of money that way. Pages are eating string cheese. Yes, she's eating string cheese. Just some of the other stuff. We'll have the traffic ordinance, the wage schedule. Some of those things are coming. Re-appraisal started, you'll notice the sign up on the wall. We're gonna try to sit them in there. Originally we're gonna put them up in the conference room. Seems like that might be a better workspace for them. So they've been on site doing some initial work. There's been some tie-ins to getting things loaded onto the server, software-related, starting some of that database setup so they can begin to pocket like those things as they go out and do visits later. Do you like what else? Well, I think that's it. I've eaten way too many M&Ms this week. I think I have a stomach ache. That's probably three pounds of those, that they're getting me through. That's probably too much, Erin, but... Dark chocolate. They're very good. They're dark. Yeah. If they're dark, it's okay. It's okay. Any oxidant rich, so it's actually, I'm doing healthy stuff. It's healthy for the vegetables. I don't think there's anything else really right now. We've been able to chop quite a bit of stuff off our list just with having that one extra body in finance so you can take some front-end stuff, how it sort of ripples out. So each time we add a piece somewhere, that does help us come up. Having pages a week and a half in, but just having her on scene, just how these things start to tumble out. So yeah, and so it's hard to lose somebody else and it means a lot to carry those tasks for a while longer. But I think because we're starting to buttress everywhere else and fill up, hopefully it's a little more doable. That continues to be the struggle point. We're in a market for a position that Montpere's looking for one right now. Westminster's looking for one right now. There's a couple of places across the river that are. Some different other rules that are out there and it's a small pool to begin with, so we'll see. So if you know anybody who may have an interest in municipal finance, some kind of background in those pieces, send them our way. We'd certainly consider somebody with all the technical chops because municipal pieces are kind of wonky, but we can certainly train somebody up on those. They're not talking about rocket science. They're talking about 19th century law in a lot of cases. You have to have an appreciation for the archaic, but not any real technical knowledge. But, so if anybody knows, send them on. But we're closer. It's the positive, a little grayer. Could be the kids though, so who knows. It's the kids. It's the kids. They're not, they shouldn't, no they're just. They're not here, so we'll blame it on them. Okay, sounds fair. That's all I have for you. I think that's, I don't know if there's anything else to come up this week, but. No. Did you come for a specific item? Just to enjoy it? He's not here. He's close up. Ooh, I gotta find you some fun things to do in town. We're gonna put him to work. I've got some ideas for him. Yeah, you know, we probably get better participation from the public if we do this on Friday night because it's gonna be that little thing to do when you don't know what else to do on Friday night. Only if we provided drinks. I'm gonna say you could have a beer garden and just a few other things to make you show up. Well, there's nothing that says we can't. That's what Justin would say. You have to change your policy, that's all. It's just policy. It's just a policy change. Well, we couldn't do it here. Oh, we just do it somewhere. We just gotta do it off-site. And you could. All right, anything for us? You're at the rebirth, we just have a first-class license. That's right. You just go upstairs. For sure. I'm just looking at him. I feel like he was there. All right, anything for executive session? No. Then the next item is to adjourn. I move we adjourn. Perry said second. Even though he's muted, I saw his mouth full. Okay. I saw him the captioning, he did. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Meeting is closed. Thank you, everybody. Amen.