 It's wonderful knowing that you're still there. It's still the breakfast on plus TV Africa right now We're talking on an issue that we hope to rest very soon Because we've been talking about this all the time. Remember that COP 28 is happening in Dubai and Nigeria went there with a delegation of 1411 the uproar was that the number is too much when the country is grappling with economic crisis here and there Federal government first of all said that it is only about 800 that it took to the place and now the number has been cut to 422 the federal government said they only sponsored 422 we're still trying to find out the rationale behind all that we have Mr. Shegoon shock which own principal partner would reach and Scott consulting here with us to Help us make sense of this. Good morning and welcome to the program sir It's Pleasure to be here Okay, so we are We are down to four four two two number a cop 28 is happening in Dubai first of all, let's have an insight to what you feel about our participation in the first place in Cop 28 because that divergent Opinion some say Because of what we contribute to the global warming We are not even supposed to be there when other people are talking the culprits In court talking about how to save the planet as it were. What do you think? Should be our role and relationship with this group of people talking climate change Breaking it all down We'll have to be And I like being part of this about you and look at things So first of all to answer the question that you just asked directly We have to be there. I'd say absolutely we have to be there So climate change is a reality Global warming is a thing and it's not just a reality anything. These are things that have significant impact on Everybody on this planet, whether you are a climate culprit or a climate victim There's an impact on you Right. So anywhere that people are sitting down to have the conversations around the issues of climate change Obviously those conversations will be about how it happened what's resulting what's causing, you know The climate change issue and what can be done? You know to mitigate the effect and perhaps even reverse some of these things that are happening to us as a planet Everybody that is involved must be at the table You know, so it's a it's a conversation that of course we have to be a part of Because we are if even if we are not culprits. We are definitely victims and Decisions are going to be made regarding how the planet the world moves forward About that matter. We must be a part of that decision because if you are not at the table then whatever is decided You know, you are bound by it anyway You know, so I don't buy to that argument about also not Needing to be there. We absolutely need to be there. Let's not also forget that Nigeria is the biggest country By population and by economy in Africa where the largest black nation in the world How can anybody suggest that something as Momentous and as significant as this is happening and Nigeria will not be there. It's it's I mean Whoever is saying that probably said we doesn't understand what the issues are maybe, you know, there's some good I think that climate change is a box Don't have Trump actually said something like that. Oh, it's a Chinese thing. There's nothing like climate change You know, so if you if you if you're in that school of thoughts, then you would say things like that You say, you know, what are we even doing that what climate change is real the ocean levels are rising Yeah, if not for the yeah, if not for the reclamation efforts that happened, you know on the barbage Anybody who was holding up to have visited barbage 30 years ago, you know, it's shocking to discover where the waterfront had gotten to the waterfront Of the Atlantic Ocean was a right on a matibalo way Right on it you will see the crashing waves it will spill over. I'm not talking of flogging The ocean will spill over onto the road just as a result of the crashing waves. That's how serious The rising water levels have been, you know, so we have to push back on that There's the ice caps the ice picks and they do not pull, you know I'm melting as a result of the increasing temperature of the planet and that melting water must find its level So what's happening is that countries are getting subsumed in water very slowly and somebody had said that look Lagos If we're not careful in 50 years Lagos who would have a significant chunk of Lagos the entirety of Victoria land and Nipoi may be underwater If action is not taken, of course, we have taken action as a country But the action will be insignificant if The action is isolated. So there's a there's a global concert to fight and push back on climate I'm particularly excited that the world appears to be taking this very seriously now as you can see in the numbers of delegates that has Attended this from all over the world. So this not just in Nigeria, but actually Who had a significant jump in the number of delegates attending pop 28 relative to the other hops Okay, okay. Let's talk numbers now About 1411 people went from Nigeria's delegates However, the federal government came back to say it was only about 800 and something that they sponsored And now they've they're back again saying they only sponsored 422 Do you think that number was too much first? And secondly, is that something fishy with the numbers that they're saying this they only sponsored a few So make it look like they're not wasting our resources Look, I think that Just speaking as an outsider and I think it's important to provide a caveat I'm not a part of the workings of government I don't know what's what's informed the number of Participants from the number of ministries and agencies that have gone there I would assume and imagine and vote that they really do have Significant duties and roles to play at the conference, but just speaking as an outsider I honestly don't understand why we need 422 much less 800 much less one thousand four hundred and eleven people acts a climate change Conversation We need our ministry of environment We need our ministry of um, maybe energy oil and gas, you know, the oil oil industry Obviously obvious reasons. They are their significant contributors to the matter Maybe we need a few state governments of national governments that are They are in the largest impact of of the effects of climate change in Nigeria Southeast for example Maybe legal states who has to continue to combat rising water levels But to be honest, I don't understand why the numbers have to run into as many as they have As as they have done But there is a caveat to that. So that's what I said. I don't understand that doesn't mean that it's bad Just means that the government needs to be more Um forthcoming with information They need to explain in as simple terms as possible Why each of those people have to be there what role precisely are they playing? You know one thousand for the whether they are private sector people or government people We have to assume that they're going there to place specific roles. What are those roles? What are those roles? Um If the government doesn't come out to explain these things Then you will have the humor mail You know going into hyper drive as it is right now So people will not have a choice what to speculate with that no information now To train the number from 800 plus to 400 plus is also disingenuous. Which one should we believe? So so I would really encourage Government officials to be more Portraits who operate with candor when they're dealing with the people of Nigeria because it is our money And nobody should make any mistake about that. It is our money matter who you are You know as in Nigeria, it is your money that is being spent The lowest spent person in Nigeria pays value at their tax everybody in this country pays value at their tax So It's it's important that the government understands that people actually do have a right to ask and have a role You know to to to play in this entire conversation. Whatever is discussed in in those uh conferences The eight facts is based on the people. There is nothing like, you know Nigeria as a country doesn't exist if there is no human being inside it. So people demand people or people Deserve to be informed About why why the money is being spent in the manner that it is Whether it's for 22 or it's it's whatever, you know, um, we need explanations. We need clear explanations as to why this but I don't understand it Um Let me Okay, please go ahead. Please go ahead. Yeah, you you are you are part of the civil society And one of the arguments is that the people that went there some of them like you said private sector and all that Civil society organizations went as well Well, I was wondering what the civil society will do because I'm wondering will they be given a chance to address the the the gathering because if civil society from every country Addresses the gathering. I wonder how it's going to be. Will there be workshops that they will attend and profile solutions? we don't know because yesterday I was watching a report in one of the sister stations and The federal government first of all gave a number like a joy youth association went to the The conference with about 15 participants or more And someone who was on ground said that he went with that delegation and they were not up to 10 So number's being burdened around. We don't even know how it is But what exactly will the civil society be doing as individual civil societies that they couldn't have sent delegation to represent them At that place because even that same reporter was saying the gallery where these people were supposed to sit Nobody is there probably a lot of them are just doing shopping In the malls in Dubai and all that. So what critical role Where the civil society organizations supposed to play at the COP 28? If you have that insight Okay, so so Like you said, I remember some mistakes. So I have A good understanding of how civil society works. And in this instance, you have to expand the terminology civil society to include Governmental organizations NGOs and You will agree that there are NGOs whose whose charter whose primary Raise all their trade Is this revolves around the climate conversation subject of climate change So if if a discussion is going on about that, they have to be there They will be there to provide their knowledge their experts private sector driven Perspective on the issues that's one They have to be there perhaps To provide some sort of oversight At their cost obviously, I mean this this things that we're talking about cannot be at the cost of You know, but if if the civil society organization decides that look, um, I want to monitor what's happening at at at COP I want to see what role Nigeria is playing. I want to see what Nigerian government officials are saying I want to see what positions they're pushing. I want to see how They are Going about their participation, you know, for example, you say Some of the galleries were empty. Where were the people, right? So it is a CSO that is geared or whose activities are geared to us Ensuring accountability and transparency You know in the activities of government might decide to send two or one or two people to to have the first hand view of how Government is conducting these activities there That I don't see a problem in Some might have like I said earlier my type perspectives I might be able to participate in, you know in this in the sideline events um helping You know push the position of Nigeria helping push The interests of Nigeria because we must not forget that at the end of the day If there are negotiations going on and interests of in fact, there are professional negotiators On who are parties, you know, who are their parties government parties to this to this uh conference So Interests are very important and some of this NGO some of this civil society organizations will help Government With the perspective they need to better push the interest of Nigeria. So I have absolutely no problem with civil society Even people like a joy youth council, you know, yeah, why not because they are victims They're climate victims and we all know what's happening in the in the Niger Delta, you know They can't farm Otakot a city as big as otakot as a suit problem where Black dust falls from the sky you'll hand your float on the line to dry And when you go back to pick them up later in the evening, it's covered in black dust black suit, you know So I mean look we have to be there to push You know that argument to let people know if possible from us first hand a set of people as possible How this thing is affecting us? Why because there's money to be shared and I think the commission must get to this part There's money. There's a whole lot of money to be shared, you know as a result of hope 28 And everybody that is there is going to jostle for as much of that money as possible, especially You know countries that have been the victims of the climate climate change Okay, so talking about money being shared, right Is the money supposed to be based on the number of people that go there one and two Don't you think it's a waste of resources if that's not the case? Don't you think it's a waste of resources for us to send so much people considering the crippling economy in Nigeria? Yeah, I mean like I said before I Really don't support the large And and it doesn't matter and I think it's important for our government officials to understand That it does not matter whether you know the 1411 people were funded the public funds or not It does not matter. They are spending money and When you have an economy that is leading the way Nigeria's economy is leading when you have an exchange rate that is out of control You have inflation that is developing out of control. You have purchasing power reducing You need investment in manufacturing. You know, you need to revive and and kick start Give the economy a good kick in the heart so that it can it can start pumping well again All efforts must be concerted um in terms of optics in terms of Of just the the messaging from government in terms of messaging as a country as a people to ourselves We cannot be taken part in jamborees You know, I I can't for the life of me understand why we need 1,004 11 human beings to go push our interests I am pleased I think it's important for the sake of balance for Nigerians to understand that I am not saying that it that pop is not important pop is critical It's critically important to the to the to the survival Even to the economic interest of Nigeria, but you do not need I don't think you need 1,000 for that level people to go push our interests I just don't see it not in a situation where the economy is Where it is, I think you could easily have gone to that event with maybe a 300 party type of thing Maybe 200 there are countries that went with those types of numbers, you know, so I'm trying to be balanced here And I understand that there are countries that went with double what we went with, you know, and there are countries, you know, even last year There are countries that also went with very large numbers. So I'm trying to be balanced, but I still Just don't understand why we need these large numbers But again for the sake of balance placement that As the climate conversation continues to increase in terms of the relevance and importance that it is given By nations across the world The attendance of this event is going to be taking more seriously And you may have a larger number of people, especially When you have on the table the type of money you are talking about one 0.1 trillion dollars That's a hundred billion dollars being on the table to help deal with the climate change problem So you see it jump. I mean the total number of delegates last year was about 40,000 40,000 the entire number of delegates from across the world We're talking almost 100,000 today. So we're talking well over 150 percent jump in the attendance So we will see this you probably will see more people at 0.29 Because the climate problem is taking more seriously like more money being thrown at it all of that so I understand the importance of this I understand the need to have more people Go there to push your case push your argument to fight for your interests But for a country going through what is going through now I just can't for the life of me find it within me to say no, this is okay I don't think this is okay. I think we could have done this far more efficiently Yeah, maybe the Dubai factor is also part of it. We don't know Well, we see this year and we see this kind of number. We'll know that they were they went there because of 28 but like I said, the Dubai factor could be a part of the reason people are so many We had the same number with china that has like 1.4 billion people And they they came with the same number of a thousand four hundred and eleven people just like we did We have just over 200 million people here and we're thinking hotels We're thinking Transportation we're thinking other things even the shopping that they were bound to do Before they they come back to this place and how they are enriching somebody for the economy Apart from our own economy and we're just wondering. Well, there's nothing else we can do Yeah, you know, you know just just for perspective though last year Nigeria went with a very small delegation Nigeria went with I think it was less than 50 people that went for pop in fact our president was in there That's so I think we also need to understand that this new president Has an Outward-looking approach in this in this governance style is at this moment Thinking about how to bring the world into Nigeria and how to bring the benefits that are outside of the world into Nigeria And I think that may also inform why You know But have we Have we swept our room and made our bed so that the strangers can come and sleep in there because yeah, I mean We're fishing for people to come to for foreign investors when we know that There are issues that we need to address before people can be comfortable to come visit and do business Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with you and I've said this You know something I've had the opportunity to speak that we do need to do a lot of housekeeping and house cleaning And in fact if you do the housekeeping and house cleaning then what you find is that you don't need too much marketing Don't need to go out there to say too much investment will flow in You know, but it's important again for balance to say that Pop is different because this is not going after foreign investment per se There will be foreign investment conversations on the sidelines There will be conversations about renewable energy, for example, because that fits right into the agenda of pop, you know But besides the investment conversations, whether it's on renewables, whether it's on transition energy transition and all of that There is the loss and damage funds 100 billion dollars and everybody will go there to say look at the loss and damage have suffered in my country And they will try to monetize and quantify You know, you know the the negative impact that climate change has had on them in some instances You might even try to tie The damage that you have suffered as a result of climate change to specific Sectors to specific countries, you know across the world 75 percent of global gas You know climate gases are emitted by G20 nations A country like Pakistan who has suffered we all know the kind of ravaging flogs Typhoons, hurricanes that countries like Pakistan, Indonesia have suffered But they they contribute less than 1 percent to to to to green greenhouse emissions. You know, so We have to go there have conversations to try and pin down this impact Determine the financial implication of the impact the losses we have suffered Who are the people responsible for those losses? It's impossible And therefore how much money needs to come in terms of reparations if you like, but that's what the loss and damage You know funding is really you know get towards achieving some sort of reparations and some sort of damage control Some sort of investment in renewing the earth knowing that if the earth in the Niger Delta is renewed and is revived There is a positive impact to them in canada and in the united states because the world is a global image Everything is a necosystem that must be balanced and right now the balance is being shifted And the earth is basically limping and walking on half a leg instead of on two legs, you know So so it's it's all it all sort of interconnect each other and I understand the need for these conversations It's just that we must continue to call our government out that We can achieve these things in my view and maybe wrong Without going with these types of large numbers that are going to buy apparently to go shopping And I've seen videos I've seen videos of some people that I know for a fact have absolutely no business Being in Dubai being on this delegate delegation and you know, and that's that's not a good thing We need to see government deal with kando and honesty with people of Niger deal with responsibility and you know, we need to see them um Making a very deliberate conscious obvious effort to keep things tight with government costs and government expenditure And this is really really not Uh good Uh Make up 28 not turn us to cops Okay, we're also hoping for the best And we do hope that when that money comes and gets to Nigeria because we must have a chunk of that money It will be spent uh judiciously and not to buy cars and yachts and everything that I would be complaining about In Nigeria, we'd like to thank you mr. Sheikun Shokuton for coming on the program and bearing your thoughts Thanks for having me All right, we'll be talking with mr. Sheikun Shokuton principal partner would reach out He was on the show talking about the delegation to Dubai for the cop 28 and how Nigerians have to react to that Well, uh, I just I just remember a very inspiring story about a woman Did not have any inheritance but became a millionaire on her own By trying to do something and teaching others to do that as well. I think he's uh Her name is red love Sarah red love. Yeah, so if you want to read up on red love, you can just go read up red love She married at 14 by 18. She had a child by 20 She was a widow and then she started doing one or two things but the thing that struck me was that She started working in a factory that gave her An ailment But instead of the ailment being what will heal her the ailment became became the inspiration for her to become the first Independent millionaire that goes up to that status without an inheritance. That's an inspiring story Yes, yes, you can achieve anything as long as you set your mind to it. I don't just live only AI to do that for you No, don't be mentally lazy Okay, possibly this is where we are going to draw the cartoon. I know we are going to do that for the day But don't tell me the game to tomorrow or another way to express my name is Thank you My name is Rometh Paulson. Have an amazing day