 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. Today, we have with us Prof. Bishuji Dhar and we are going to discuss the latest shenanigans or discussions in DeVos. The World Economic Forum is meeting. Do they actually address the central question which has come today, the crisis of the so-called globalization they had followed, which is really a finance-led globalization? No, that is something that DeVos has never addressed effectively. Although they make a lot of noise about how global capitalism is going to be changed. Every year, they bring out a set of documents which talk about the fact that globalization has created increasing inequality both across countries and within countries. But those seem to be just another way of grandstanding, so that they are responsible people and they are aware of the problems and they have the intentions of changing the system. But in actual practice, what you find in the discussions in the deliberations in DeVos, year on end, you find that there is a reinforcement of the status quo and going towards more aggressive forms of globalization. Of course, the characters change year after year. We are talking about the kind of policies that DeVos or the World Economic Forum is on this pursuit. You are saying that they are making some lip services while having a more aggressive globalization policy. So, what are the aggressive globalization policies that today we are finding DeVos is doing? For instance, there is a very clear message coming from DeVos and some of the major CEOs making this point that the real way forward for the global economy is just to focus on growth. Same old story that you have heard time and time again and that the only way in which growth can be energized is through greater global integration and putting in place all these new forms of trade agreements that you are seeing for instance TPP and in the Asia-Pacific region and a closer home, you have this regional comprehensive economic partnership. So, one is seeing, you know, a resurrection of these agreements at a time when for instance, Donald Trump has junked them and for all practical purposes, TPP which was standing on the legs of the United States has no legs to go forward. So, I think that this has become a very big issue in DeVos that these CEOs are coming together and some of the world leaders are coming in support of these leaders saying that you need to reinforce the status quo going forward. Well, it is interesting that China has actually now taken up the mantle that U.S. had in terms of propagating globalization. Of course, it is also true that they are the largest manufacturing country in the world today and therefore, China propagating globalization means really opening other people's markets to their global goods, their goods. Do you see China being able to shore up this World Economic Forum's platform of greater global integration? This is a very interesting dynamic that is taking place in Davos because as U.S. under Trump is showing signs of retreat and talking about a more isolationist kind of of taking that kind of a view, the Chinese have become more regressive and they seem to be taking the place of the Americans and the speech that President Xi gave the other day on globalization, on the benefits of globalization and he made a very strong point that globalization does not result in the kind of problems that even World Economic Forum has been talking about in its reports. It was quite astounding. There are actually two identities. One is, let us not forget, the globalization paradigm was selling opium to China and that is where three opium wars took place, supposedly to open the Chinese economy. That is right. And then we have the current scenario where the western powers were aggressively pursuing globalization and now that it has come back to hit them, now they are talking about protecting themselves, essentially from those who they invaded earlier as it were economically. You are absolutely right. The circle seems to have come completely around from the late 70s. China was the one which plunged into this whole process of globalization. And of course, China did it on its own volition, but other developing countries were pushed by the Americans aided and abetted by the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. And then we had this whole great Washington consensus coming around. So, we went through the whole cycle and come the great financial crisis of 2008 when Obama, Bush and then Obama realized that they had gone too far and they need to now start developing their own manufacturing and get a little more inward looking and that the fact that they cannot remain so open. Well, Trump, as a good businessman, is not talking diplomacy anymore. He has now been very clear that it is time for US to close doors and they cannot tolerate trade anymore and they have to go against open trade and become more inward looking. And who does jump into this? The first guy who actually got into this closer globalization. You know, it is interesting what you are saying is of course that Trump's argument is interesting is about manufacturing, but real estate finance that has been the way actually globalization has taken place and manufacturing has been hit also by the fact technological changes have taken place. You are going to see 3D printing, you are saying automated factories. The old style employment that existed in the factories today is too long a possible to have that. Given that it seems to be, Trump seems to be playing identity politics rather than even protectionism. For Trump, you know, it is also a fact that you know it is in the good old world of manufacturing that employment really lies. So, on the one hand, there is a compulsion for Donald Trump and that was his vote bank in Michigan and other places when he went and sold this idea of creating more jobs. So, he has this compulsion of creating jobs. So, without the good old world, he cannot actually get those jobs. The other thing that is actually happened with China is that China is right there in the world of finance that you are talking about. Over the past few years, China has calibrated the entry of yuan into this big bad world of finance and you know, we saw you know, short while back that the Chinese yuan is now a part of the SDRs. So, in a way, it has been recognized in international currency. So, in one way, the Chinese are also playing the same old game of coming into this whole process of globalization using the same old tricks of finance and also technology. Let us not forget about the fact that you know if the patent numbers are any indicator of innovation. Chinese are way ahead of the Americans and you know, I was the total number of the total patent applications in China, the Chinese patent office has crossed a million mark and the Americans are lagging behind, they are not even half a million. So, the Chinese, you know, the Chinese development will have to be viewed to seen very carefully in light of the aggression that they are now showing. But as far as Davos is concerned, are we seeing anything new in order to address one central issue which has been plaguing a lot of the countries, which is the so-called iniquitous tax regime by which some countries benefit for what it is called tax havens, which are really a phenomena of certain western countries. The US, Britain, which is really one of the biggest tax havens in the world and also to some extent Europe. Do you see that the Davos coming out with anything that addresses these issues, which are really again close to the financial world we are talking about? No, not really, because you know for two reasons. First, in terms of the crisis of capitalism, Davos admits and there have been several publications which admit that capitalism is in crisis. And of course, now they are wanting to find ways, they are actually instigating others to help them to find ways out of this crisis. But interestingly what has happened is that China has come in and reinforced the fact that the old, you know, the old model of capitalist development is the right way to go forward. Now, if you have the second largest economy and moving towards the largest economy very soon, if that economy and the president comes and reinforces the benefits and the virtues of capitalism, then there is very little that the capitalist world can do to undo the damage that itself perceives of the system. So, that is point number one. And linked to that is the fact that you ask the question that, you know, the real culprit behind this capitalism and the exploitative nature of capitalism is capital itself, the form of capital and the way you were actually mentioning the use these tax havens and they are going around. Now, a few years back, G20 tried to address this issue. They called it base erosion profit shifting process of, you know, the global companies going around doing this business in a very, you know, in a way that deprives both the home countries and the host countries in a large number of ways. Now, one in the past few years, one didn't see any appetite going forward. Now, again, interestingly, the push towards doing something on that count has coming from the United States. And again, Trump, you know, he comes and took the center stage saying that the American companies cannot just, you know, put their money in other countries in different tax havens and deprived the American economy of investable surplus. So, he is trying to again, you know, put pressure on these companies, put some amount of discipline to bring back the ill-gotten wealth back into the US. Ill-gotten wealth from all over the world. All over the world. It has never happened in the past. In the past, you know, you know, if you look at the history, the Euro dollar world got created because of American pressure of, you know, on the companies to bring back with these funds into the US. It never happened. So, let's see what happens. But if history is anything to rely on, I don't think the world of finance is going to be changing. It has changed for good in the bad way. I don't think it's going to ever change. Thank you very much, Mr. Jit. We'll keep discussing these issues as you go further. This is all the time we have for NewsClick today. Keep watching NewsClick for further episodes.