 Ma sitza from WHO'S A COMMUNICATION SPECIALIST at Kektenet, that's Kenya ICT Action Network. Karibu Sananema. Thank you so much for having me here, Stephanie. I'm glad to have you. Yeah. Looking nice. Thank you. Looking glamorous too as well. Thank you, thank you. So how did you celebrate yesterday? International Women's Day. Oh my goodness, it was a remarkable day. What we did is we attended meetings in regards to the International Women's Day. Just celebrating the greatness of what women have been achieving so far in the internet space and in the tech space. Okay. Yeah. All right. Tell us a little bit about Kektenet. Where you working? What do you, what's your mission? All right. The Kenya ICT Action Network is a network whereby we involve persons and institutions who are in the initiative to develop tech and ICT policies and also are interested in that initiative as well. So we rely on actually four pillars. The pillars include policy advocacy and we have capacity building, we have research and we have the stakeholder management. So if I can break it down is when we come to policy advocacy, we here are interact with stakeholders, different stakeholders to come up about with policies that will help us in advancing this tech. And also we have the capacity building whereby from those policies they have gotten we use the policies in our space to hold events whereby we teach about tech as we follow the policies because policies in this case are very important. And then we have the research whereby we take the, we take the policy advocacy and we take the capacity building to be research based because we did evidence, isn't it? Yeah. And for the stakeholder engagements we do them online and also we have town hall meetings and we also have a mailing list that is above that 5,000 people engaging. So it is a really good space to talk about tech. Wow. Amazing. You're revolutionizing tech. Yeah. In Kenya at least. Yes, at least. How is it for you? You say you are a woman in tech, you are a lady in tech, yes? Yes. How is the space for you? I can say the space is really a challenge as per now but it is not a challenge that you cannot overcome. Everything starts with a challenge and then it develops to something that is even bigger than us because if we look at it as a challenge we will not be able to develop in tech. Okay. And we get to talk about some of those challenges that we are on but first maybe you can help us get some background around International Women's Day. Kuna watili ptanao janasiba, oh the International Women's Day, inakwa nga ama ili aresia pekeke, you know, so people don't even know it like this. Yeah. But it started long ago. Long ago, it started in the year 1911 but then it wasn't considered the International Women's Day. So that is about 112 years ago and then we came to the, yeah it is just amazing. We now have the UN who identified it to be on March the 8th in the year 1975. Wow. Okay. And now what is the, what do we need to celebrate women and what's the importance of this year's theme exact, you know, this year's theme is digital and you know it's digit and all and then innovation and technology for gender equality. Yes, the theme is innovation and technology for gender equality because what we are critically looking at here is the rights of women when it comes to this digital space because without having these rights of women being catered for, we cannot have innovations or technology. So it's just shading a light on how women and girls can be able to engage in this digital space. So that is the critical thing we need to look about, we need to look into and also we look like the ICT facilitated gender-based violence that it's always, it's also brought to the limelight when we are looking at these innovations and technology. Okay. Yeah. All right. Maybe you can help shed some light speaking of what the challenges that happen to ladies online and whatnot. So what maybe shed some light on some of the ills that happen in the digital space. Oh my goodness. We have to start from there many, there are so many. We can start with cyberbullying, we can also begin with trolling. Trolling is a way that women are silenced online and if you silence my voice, Stephanie, how can I be able to advocate for what women stand for? How can I be able to bring the voice that women are facing certain challenges in the society? So if you silence my voice through trolling, it's a factor that contributes to online gender-based violence. Okay. So trolling is one of them. Yeah, it's a challenge. It's a challenge. We also have harasments. These are digital harasments that happen both online and offline. The harasments can also be catered and are stalking also because you figure out when you're using your phone, a message pops up on Facebook and you're like, who's this? Okay. Maybe you accepted the friend request. Just you know, that's how we do it. Yeah. Inocently. You get the request, he DMs you or she DMs you. You don't know who it is, you don't know their background. And they start to always stalking your photos, stalking where you work, stalking you. You figure out some women are even stalked outside work. So it is a factor. This person, there's one of the presenters at some point in KBC, previously in KBC. There's a fan who stalked her. He knew even where she stayed and it became so uncomfortable and you don't feel safe anymore. So it's something that actually happens. Yeah. That is actually what I was going to talk about next. It's called doxing whereby a person can be able to get your personal information from your address to your location, to your ID. And the information he gets is not using it for good purposes but for malicious purposes. Just like that story of the presenter, he or she might have used the doxing feature. So they can be able to use that as it's also a form of harassment. Yeah. How? Yeah. So any information they can get, all the information that they need till they know my house number. Yes, they know your house number. You know how you, okay, in our daily lives we usually order things online, isn't it? We order food, we order what? But we need to order safely. Yeah, that's what we're going to talk about next, tackling gender online basis violence. So with that, somebody can be able to get your information. Basically when you're using, most times when you're using public Wi-Fi, you get that we have the black hackers. The black hackers. Yes. The black hackers are able to hack your phone through public Wi-Fi. It is very easy for them. So they're able to get your every information even when you're doing mobile transactions, including bank transactions, your advice to shut off your data so that you do it. So you figure out that those are the challenges that women are facing. They do not know how to, how to keep safe online, how to do cyber hygiene. Okay, and you can tell us all about that. What are the forms of, yeah. Okay, apart from stalking, trolling, we have something that is called fishing. Now this is the new form of, I think you've seen some of the scum emails, scum messages that we get online, yes. So when you click on that link, do you know you have given your personal information to someone maybe in the U.S., in Canada, or even in Kenya? Isn't it Zile links and the number, or click this link, Naivas is living what, what, and Naivas is actually not giving anything out. It's not giving, they're just fishing you out. They're fishing your information out. So you get that they are basically focusing on your credit cards and your bank account. You get that. Yes. Okay. So anytime you just press my, let's say my password is 1254, the person gets it, and they can take days and ages just looking at your account for you to Study your account. Study your account properly, Stephanie. Where? Yeah. The streets are not safe. They can be safe. That's what I mean. They can be safe. They can be safe. Because the rights are going to be met for all women and girls. All right. Yes. And are all this under cyberbullying or cyberbullying as standalone? Okay, I can say it's also, cyberbullying is a standalone because bullying basically is threats, false threats, there is threats, there is also stalking is part of it. Now we differentiate them so that people understand that it's not all under cyberbullying, but it is a different perspective of when you look at the dangers that are there towards the net. Like different, how can I put this, the different dockets that they are there. If we all put them under cyberbullying, we can't understand, we just say, ah, fishing ya ni cyberbullying. No one knows who is fishing in. Fishing in. Yeah, so we will, in order to get the right amount of information, we need to now categorize them into fishing, into stalking, into cyberharassments and trolling and all that. Yes. Okay. So when this happens to women, what do we stand to lose as a society because you said that if I'm being harassed online then chances are that I don't want to be online. So what do we stand to lose as a society? It's quite sad that we stand to lose a lot as a society. I can use a quote, I don't know if I can remember the quote correctly, but the quote says, a home without a daughter is like a river without a source. A home without a daughter is like a river without a source. Yes, now that brings me to my next point. When somebody is bullied in the society, especially a woman, it affects the children, it affects the families, it affects the community as a whole. How so? How so? When a woman in a house, maybe say you're in a station, do something wrong, you're bullied, you go back home, you can't even take care of your children, the family starts breaking down and then you get into isolation, you get into depression as a woman, leading you to have suicidal thoughts and the community loses you and your impact towards it. So I've broken it down to how it happens. Yes, the impact. Apart from that we lose the voices of women. Women can be able to identify the critical things that are happening in the society, especially when they are, you know, we are motherly, we are affectionate, we are able to emphasize on the issues that are happening in the society. So we lose the voices that we have in the society. Apart from that, we also, I hope I'm not taking you too fast. No, no, no, no. You're forgetting it. Apart from that, we also have the FGMs going on, we have the Ali marriages going on, how can we be able to know them? How can you be able to identify those areas? If not somebody just taking a phone. aqaan nere iwi ingeyu hiniwezwa hiniwa hadaki kalim hiniwa social media kata niwezwa takutum gluten hiniwa neta kapiwa wujedan na pape hiniwa omiwa mwa kikue sokwa wajitu hiniw bezi wezwa hatred nisa karasha yagushan yaa Tsikoba tezi Ammi empower civus la ni tri Noro Auz hii k joints ku Vanguard nieu Kuwa Iwa kumans ambil Le ... Afisha音 t хочу ..... I can be used as an impact towards the society and also as a form of income for themselves. So it is really affecting our society. So that brings me to the question, what needs to be done to carb the online gender based violence? What are some of the tools that are there? Yes, there are so many tools. I will start by with our tool at Kickternet. We have been championing online gender based violence since the year 2011. Because we are online companies since the year 2006. And we have been championing it under a study we called the dark sites of the internet. Whereby it covered the women. The dark sites of the internet? Yes. So we were looking at the e-mail scammers. It is found actually in our website at kickternet.org.ke. And with this you can find the studies that we have done. So with having seen all this happening in the community of tech, especially to women, we decided that one of the things that we will do to tackle online gender based violence is come up with a learning module that is called the digital inquiry kit where it is tackling the safety. Our module is module 5. Stuck in safety of online, safety of women online. Yes, especially in the digital space. So someone goes through that and then they have the knowledge around what they need to do. So it is basically a self-paced module. It is a 90 minute module whereby a woman can go through it and learn what do I do when somebody attacks me. So you figure out there are so many things that one can do. Once I think I mentioned earlier, cyber hygiene. So in cyber hygiene it involves okay, Stephanie, what do you do when you get bullied online? The first thing you have to document it. Document it? Yes, by document it is like taking a screenshot. Okay. Just taking a screenshot. Having an evidence. Having an evidence. What's happening? Because you need evidence. You can just not say out of nowhere, I am being bullied. You need to show it. After you do that you report. How do you report? These applications have places where they write reports on your settings. When you go through your settings there is somebody written report. And you can specify what report you want to give. Is it somebody stalking you? Is it somebody insulting you as a woman? So you report like that. After you report, you tell five of your friends, report for me this account. So it becomes very effective. So after they have reported their account, there is the Office of the Data Protection Commission whereby they accept these reports online. Gena based violence. Let me pause you just for a second there. So if I report on Facebook, do I send the screenshot or do I just go and report? Say this password and I'm getting insults from this account. And then that's it. So what you do when it comes to Facebook, necessarily Facebook, Twitter, if they give you the option of adding the image or documentation, please do. You're adding evidence. But now when it comes to the physical reporting here, the Office of the Data Protection Commission or even the police station where there's a gender desk, you will go with the evidence, say my name is Stephanie or my name is Neema and on this date and this date, this guy insulted me and said this and this my life is at risk. Because you never know what next. He might insult you the next day is appearing at your workplace or maybe is appearing where you're having brunch with your friends and he's just looking at you and you're like what can I do? But with reporting and 5 people reporting about the account it is shut down and you are given a space whereby you can now live freely and say that I have protected myself from the violence. So that is also another way called cyber hygiene. So that's cyber hygiene and this is not only for by women in tech, women in digital spaces, or for any social media user. For any social media user and why we specify it on women, it's because it happens to a lot of women in the society and we need to voice it so that this information it's disseminated effectively towards the society. Amazing. Now before we come to a close what is it about the men being having more careers in tech than women? That is a very interesting question. So what I can say this about tech is that tech was considered a male kind of career a male kind of when you want to fix your computer who is the first person you go to it's a male. We cannot consider me even if I am in the tech space that is a competence. So without thinking and our cultural constraints that we have towards tech is what has brought this that women cannot involve themselves in tech. And also I can say in that regard we figured out that in the grassroots level women are not able to engage in social spaces they are prohibited they are told you have to do cooking you have to do washing even girls you don't have time to go to Facebook and block that account and document it you see there is so many things and also to learn the models that are there not only our company has the models the models are online and they are actually free and also for our company is good because you can now be satisfied with the cost and while you are getting the certification you can now disseminate the information towards the society and the grassroots level. You are getting literacy for free and you can empower others but you have and there is something that I read from your website that is written GBV poor digital literacy and lack of awareness in cyber security has made women the diversity to be excluded from internet governance and economic spaces mind to expound on this alright so GBV is actually gender based violence gender based violence for women is brutal is brutal to the sense that now let me just say this the UN is now considering only in gender based violence a health issue a health issue it has taken a new life because it affects the mental health it affects the mental health of the woman now how can a woman engage in such a platform and her mental health is not even there she doesn't have the mental capacity when it comes to digital literacy literacy we realize that most of the hubs that were being set in the grassroots levels are now closed or they were closed long ago the hubs that are supposed to teach the community on what tech is on how to go about this violence it is closed the third one was kindly the third one was lack of awareness in cyber security yes we are not aware we don't know we don't have information and it's not that the information is not there it is just that the people who are giving information we are like this and the people who want information so we need to work together as a community when I give you this information maybe today you will go and teach in your social media I learned this and this from online gender based violence you don't necessarily have to mention me or mention where it came from but just from your knowledge it helps the society now with that we can be able to be innovative and in technology and also equalize gender in tech and the digital space when we address these issues we are at par we are at par we become at par and this gives us opportunities in business nowadays businesses have gone online imagine a woman who is pregnant has been laid off work and she needs something to feed herself maybe she is a single mum so what will she do she will have to engage in gig economy gig economy is the economy that is found in tech and while engaging in this she will have to air her products and she will engage she will get the bullies so it is a spectrum that needs unity we just need to learn the whole spectrum on how it is towards advancing in tech in tech as women and girls and even with that we will be able to engage in matters internet governance how our voice had finally finally as we concluded we concluded for the first time how many minutes where do you see the future of women in tech from where you seated from where I seated it is possible there is nothing that is impossible it is just that we do not have to wait for the international women's day so that we can be engaging women in tech we have to do it as a daily basis think we have to make it a habit so it is possible to start with me and you as girls we can save your women it starts with us it is possible to have gender equality it is possible to have all the innovations and tech we can think or imagine about as women and it is possible to get jobs as women in tech because as for Safaricom they are having a safety mentorship program where I was previously before yesterday at the University of Nairobi Sarawambu was talking about it and they need women who can take the infrastructure of tech forward because the money is situated for women so they need women to do so so many opportunities in tech so it is a growing platform it starts with me and you and we can do it regardless of what it takes we need to start and never stop as I said let us not just do it in the international women's day but also let's make it habitual so that we can be able to disseminate this information properly towards the society wow amazing thank you very much Melva where can people get you on social media your company if they need information or how to keep safe online and everything that you have alright that's your camera thank you so much as for my company you can get us under the website Kenya ICT Action Network and with this you will be able to get all the modules that you have done towards cyber security we have done data protection we also currently doing data protection and broadcasts whereby we are engaging the community as well and as for me you will get me on Twitter as Nema Masitsa that is my day-to-day platform and also at LinkedIn thank you so much Stephanie this has been a very interesting conversation interesting conversation I'm leaving here and like it thank you very much Nema we love to have you again to speak on something thank you so that has been Nema Masitsa who is the communication specialist at Kenya ICT Action Network talking to us about how to keep safe online and what we need to do to have women in this spaces because there are many opportunities for you as a woman in this space so don't shy away from it I hope you've taken something from this it has been sport and tech but more is to come your way we will be coming up next so stick with us we take a short break will be right back