 I'm Steve Nunn, president and CEO of the Open Group. Welcome to Toolkit Tuesday, where we highlight the various components and leading experts of the Architects Toolkit, a collated portfolio of the most pertinent technology standards for enterprise architects. During the series, I'll be calling on a number of recognized experts who will bring their particular insights on how to most effectively use the various tools in the Architects Toolkit. We'll have a mix of interviews, panel sessions, and pre-recorded presentations along the way. While all standards of the Open Group are designed so they can be adopted independently of one another, the greatest value for an organization can be derived when they're used in unison, that some of the parts should be greater than the whole. In the Architects Toolkit, we have collated a portfolio of the most pertinent ones for architects, together, all in one place. For most of these tools, certification from the Open Group is also available, so practitioners can demonstrate that they have the skills required, and recruiters can take the guesswork out of the recruitment process all backed up by our Open Badges program. Historically, organizational leaders only needed to worry about getting the best out of their individual capability piece of the value chain to assure at least some success in their domain. As disruption has manifested itself almost everywhere, those same functional leaders have today needed to understand their context more fully and explore how to extend it to adjacent capabilities in their industry value chains. The future brings yet greater uncertainty, and a fuller systems thinking approach is necessary. Why? Well, those same functional leaders are being compared and measured against their predecessors' performance, who are often the ones now doing the measurement. To even achieve basic parity in terms of success with their predecessors, they will now need to understand the full contextual environment they are in and the associated changes over time, with new and adapted value-based ecosystems. Business people as well as IT professionals can ill-forward to regard these ecosystems as a series of greyed-out boxes out of their immediate concern. Understanding the architecture of these ecosystems affords meaningful discussions of benefit to all participants. Welcome everybody, welcome to Toolkit Tuesday, and my thanks to you all for joining us, and my thanks as ever to Paul Holman of IBM for his EA Minute, his thoughts have been both useful and amusing over the various episodes that we've had so far. So my thanks again to Paul. It's great to have you with us. This will actually be the last regular version of Toolkit Tuesday for this season. We will have, watch out at the end for what we're going to do for the season finale, but we're in two weeks time on 15th of August. We will have a, I'll say a little more about it, but we'll have a slightly extended version as our season finale. But this whole activity of Toolkit Tuesday, this broadcast has been fun, it's been entertaining, it's been such a great thing to do, and we've reached thousands of individuals over the various episodes and the three seasons now, I think that we've been doing it. It's kind of taken on a life of its own with the, it just shows there are so many tools that we can talk about and so many topics of interest that keep people coming back. So it's been great. And today is a great topic. We're focusing on our IT for IT standard today. A little more about that in a moment. So just the usual housekeeping item, if you would like to ask a question of the speaker today, then please try to do that in the Q&A channel, as opposed to the chat channel. The Q&A channel you'll find if you click the three little dots in the bottom right-hand corner of your screen, that'll give you the chance to click Q&A and please ask them in there. But as usual, please use the chat channel for communicating with other attendees. In particular, we love knowing where you're joining us from. Where in the world are you joining us? We had a virtual event of the open group last week and we had people from 33 different countries. So it's always great to see the global spread and how folks all around the world are interested in what's going on here. So please do that. I can see that starting up now in the chat channel. So thanks for doing that and thank you for joining us. And in particular, thank you for joining us today to our main speaker. We will have Rob Ackershoch from DXC will join for Q&A as well, who will be known to quite a few of you probably. But our main speaker today is Luke Bradley, who is the head of the IT for IT platform engineering at Vodafone Group Services. Luke has been leading architecture and platform engineering teams in the Vodafone Group for the last eight years, having worked in technology for more than 20 years. He is accountable for a multitude of group-wide transformation projects spanning topics such as ITSM, observability, CICD, analytics, portfolio planning, identity and access management, and more. And today Luke's going to talk to us about how the Vodafone Group is using the IT for IT standard as a blueprint for their new digital operating model supporting their digital transformation journey. So a warm welcome to Toolkit Tuesday, please, for Luke Bradley. Over to you, sir. Thank you very much, Steve, for the introduction. I think your colleague has had a new hand to me over the boss, that's great. And so, by the way, everybody, thank you for joining. I'll jump rather quickly into things. What I'll be talking to you today is around how Vodafone are using IT for IT to enable DevSecOps at scale. Bear with me here, just fighting what my curves are. So a big part, I think everybody will have a pretty good view on who Vodafone is. Vodafone is one of the largest global telecom providers. It's maybe the fourth or fifth largest teleco in the world. And we're globally distributed across a variety of geographies. As part of our Tech 2025 strategy, we're doing a vast amount of work to boat it in source, what has been contracts that have been outsourced over the last 20 years. But as part of that in-sourcing, we have a huge aspiration to enable a lot of platform development within the organization. And with that, and again, if you type in Vodafone, you'll see a lot of media coverage everywhere. With that, we have an aspiration to onboard in excess of 7,000 developers in the coming few years. And to also get to a position where close to 50% of our technology staff base, which is in excess of 35,000 globally, where by 50% or at least 50% of those come from a software engineering background. I work within Digital Lighting, within Vodafone Group Services, or within Vodafone Technology. And we see ourselves as a huge part in how Vodafone will achieve that ambition. Bear with me here, let's change the slide. So to provide a bit more context on the organization that I come from and maybe to give a bit more context on the problem. So I work with an internal service provider within Vodafone Group called Technology Voice, where we are an enormous organization that has grown rapidly over the last few years. In the last, maybe seven years, we've grown from close to 1,500 people when I joined to be in excess of 15,000 people now. And what we aim to do is to support Vodafone in achieving its Tech 2025 vision through a multitude of levers. So around helping, one of the big focuses that we have is differentiating ourselves through software engineering. We're really facilitating and accelerating our in-sourcing ambitions, whereby we maintain a sustainable knowledge, a long-term knowledge base within Vodafone, where we modernize delivery. So that's in adapting more and more modern practices, whether it's DevSecOps, whether it's Scaled Agile, and in particular CyberLibrary Engineering from a culture in mindset perspective. And then at the same time that we really look to leverage our scale. So being an organization of 15,000 people, there's a vast amount of talent and skill in the organization, and what we really want to do is to make that available to Vodafone on demand as required in an agile manner. Writing our recursor. To introduce myself a bit further and to introduce the organization that I sit within. So I work, or I head up a function called IT for IT Platform Engineering. We have over the last three or four years really tried to embrace the basic principles of what IT for IT targets. And what we've recently done is rebranded ourselves around IT for IT Platform Engineering, whereby we've taken global accountability, both within our technology voice function that I'm specifically reside within, but also in the context of our broader digital and IT function. And our overarching ambition is to, as the title of the presentation is, effectively to enable DevSecOps at scale. You guys will obviously be familiar with Wabakashok. We all would regularly and quite facetiously infer that DevSecOps in some organizations, depending on how things progress, are at risk and can become the next silo in a modern organization. And what we're really trying to head off is making sure that we can avoid that type of risk. To give you a bit of flavor in terms of the scale. So, as I mentioned, Photophone in our technology organization, we have four in excess of 35,000 people. Tech Voice is in the region of 15,000 people. And in terms of our platform throughout, I talked today, or on the slide, we talked about supporting 46 platforms. The way I try to look at it, and the social contract, if you will, that I have with our stakeholders is that we try to unburden them with managing some of the platforms that would enable scale development. So, instead of individual teams having to worry about monitoring services or monitoring capabilities, whether it's logging, cloud monitoring, et cetera, instead of having to build their own automation tools, what we try to work with them is to, one, is take that burden off them, bring them through the life cycle, financial security approval processes get the platforms up and running at scale and establish them in a more collaborative and democratized operating model so that the people using our platforms, but in particular our engineers, that they can instead focus on creating value as opposed to messing around, to be honest with what is ultimately duplicated inside of work. So, in terms of why do we exist, I think I'm pretty sure everybody would have seen this slide before. I think everybody's aware that the overall operating model in IT and the types of challenges that an organization needs to cater for is evolving rapidly, right? Vodafone is an enormous company. There are external trends in technology. There is an ever-evolving set of working practices. I think there would force in us, but also facilitating a change. And I'll be honest, so much change is happening quite frequently with, you know, essentially major power lines just happening on a regular basis. And we have collectively cleared it up. You know, we must evolve. We must respond to this. We must be at the forefront of this in order to attract and retain talent, but also as a business in order to properly leverage the variety of emerging opportunities. And to be honest, you know, it isn't easy. It isn't hard. If you look at this visualization, I'm particularly fond of this visualization. You know, you know, and it really does a good job at talking about how and highlighting how difficult it is to evolve an operating model when this is the reality of the landscape. You know, I've given maybe an indication of the scale of the platforms that we run. Maybe, you know, I think we're including public cloud. We're in the region of about 75,000 infrastructure elements under management. We have about 120,000 end user computer elements under managed and about six or under management and about 6,090 services. You know, when you combined siloed working siloed working practices with that level of number of services and federated global operating model overlaid with a tooling ecosystem or a capable ecosystem like that, that the level of complexity is exponentially larger than what's accentuated here. And, you know, we encountered it on ISIS, but everybody encounters it. You know, it's extremely difficult for a senior leader to identify, you know, a really effective path out of this scale, you know, this real, this complexity in modernizing the digital management landscape in that brownfield environment. You know, there are countless legacy constraints and challenges existing in large enterprises that enables that aspirational target of achieving flow. And, you know, when you combine it with this, and obviously I think anybody who's familiar with Rob's presentation will be aware of this as well or will have seen this. You know, the vendor landscape is absolutely large. There are an abundance of suppliers in the market and they are increasingly ever starting to horizontally expand into other areas. As an architect, or as an enterprise architect's or architect's background, I'm often finally supplementing or wishing that they would sort of stay in their lane a bit more as they bleed that early. And I think, you know, to really accentuate the problem, the emerging field of generative AI, you know, it's probably the perfect example of the types of challenges that senior leaders of digital and IT face. You know, it's not, there's no question as to whether those capabilities and those emerging technologies, there's no question as to whether they will add value. But I think that the question is, how do you actually really benefit from the potential? How do you really benefit from the use cases, the productivity gains? But how do you do so in a scaled and sustainable way that addresses cost, privacy, security, intellectual property when it comes to generative AI? How do you really leverage that as opposed to just layering on another set of silos and another layer of complexity? And I think those silos, you know, the silos can be very enticing sometimes but in reality is they enable agility in the short term while ultimately strangling the agility of the organization in the long haul. And you know, that again, that aspirational target flow, that aspirational target of transparency and traceability across the stack, that becomes obviously more and more difficult with every layer of complexity. You know, and tying some of those challenges back into Vodafone, right? And in terms of, you know, what does digital and IT in Vodafone need to respond to? And you know, the reality of the telecom industry is evolving, you know, just like in tech, just like in various other industries, there are risks of disruption all over the place. You know, in reality, Vodafone needs to give our customers what they want and they need to give it faster and sooner. You know, we need to position ourselves for sustainable but maximizing our growth opportunities and we need to really simplify and remove the complexity that acts as barriers to engaging and purchasing and using our services. And in digital and IT, I think we are seeing ourselves and more and more in the telecom industry, and digital and IT are seen as being uniquely positioned as a way to differentiate ourselves among our customers and to really deliver the outcomes and the experience that our customers want. In Vodafone, we see ourselves as a premium service provider where customer experience, where ease of use is a major part of what we want to do and it's how we want our brand to be seen and digital and IT enables so much of that. So it's absolutely critical that we respond. All right, let's change the slide here. So to build on those types of challenges and what's happening in the industry and what Vodafone really specifically need to respond to and why did we go down the direction of IT for IT? Charles, I'm going to keep this quite simple, quite practical. We can get quite aspirational, quite abstract in some of this stuff, but at its heart, so much of what I've talked about, so much of what the industry needs to solve, so much of what we want to achieve in Vodafone. It is about enabling productivity in a sustainable way and a scalable way across the organization and what IT for IT is really helping us is to tell a story and establish a brand for what would be a reasonably long and long tail of the transformation program. At a headline perspective, we are achieving major things but when you have a long tail of 6,500 servers and 75,000 endpoints, it isn't going to be a big bang overnight thing. Things are going to take a while. Vodafone are a Togaf organization. We have embraced Togaf from an enterprise architecture practices perspective for a long time. We are going through an enormous safe transformation where we're really trying to align the organization around value streams and take some of the complexity of the organization but also be a lot more intentional and a lot more controlled around how we drive investment. And obviously, historically, we've embraced and leveraged ITIL. Vodafone globally offer a variety of services. We offer business critical services, emergency services and whether it's ITIL or adjacent frameworks, it's absolutely critical. We really live the standard and live the mindset of which ITIL drives. And I think that's, you know, it's the ever emerging new frameworks and new trends in this sort of process ecosystem is where IT for IT has really helped us. How we've been using IT for IT is the tell a story of an umbrella framework that ensures that people are thinking about how these practices work together, up front, very early in the lifecycle of a program, very early in the lifecycle of a product or initiative that we're thinking about how to do this. As well, most importantly, Vodafone as a telecom, obviously we're heavily engaged with TM Forum. Vodafone are one of the founding members of ODA where they've opened Digital Architecture, which is the broader OSS, BSS, and Digital Architecture framework that we've adopted and architecture framework that we've adopted in Vodafone. What we've done is we've embedded IT for IT into ODA. We've branded it as Voda or VODA. And, you know, it's allowing us to tell a very consistent story and our overarching direction of travel. At the same time, you know, obviously I mentioned that we've incorporated IT for IT into Voda. You know, Voda or ODA or Voda Together is the overarching reference architecture of Vodafone. What we use IT for IT is to describe an architecture vision or to act as a reference architecture for what an integrated DevSecOps toolchain. You know, starting from enterprise architecture, portfolio planning, all the way through to, you know, the services that are in production, enabling that transparency, enabling that traceability, enabling a common set of reference data, et cetera, et cetera. You know, again, I quite like this slide. I quite like this view being a child of the 80s. I sort of see it as a game of Tetris, to be honest, where we're trying to connect things and we're trying to create that full stack. And building on that reference architecture point, obviously here is a standard, a relatively standard view of V3 of IT for IT. We in Vodafone are still using version two. I want to be very open with that. Some of the terminology you'll see in the subsequent slides. Obviously, version three has recently been released. We are doing a vast amount of work at the moment in terms of building a development pipeline for our people so that we can start to embrace that scale. Jumping on to the next stage around how we've used IT for IT or where IT for IT has really influenced us on the ground. In the 20 for IT building on what I spoke about with Voda and ODA, the top half of this diagram is a representation of how we're organised from a customer and partner segment, organised red hero user journeys, and then also the business value streams that we've been defining in collaboration with TM Forum. You know, true that the heart of that is our transformation and using ODA as a reference architecture, whereby we have established a global portfolio organisation acting as a list to help bring, you know, and start looking at, you know, vertically integrated value stream design, spanning so the operational value streams to other value streams and then underlying platform value streams. I think so, you know, one of my colleagues created this view showing how IT for IT and the full ecosystem of IT for IT advocates underpainting what we want to achieve at scale in VodaPone and Digital IT. It's probably been one of our crowning achievements, but, you know, I think this is usually important, obviously complemented by a high degree of OKRs. And... Excuse me. And again, echoing that, so, you know, we are, you know, Rob, I think we'll touch on a bit of a regular question around governance and what do we do and how do we achieve this. So, obviously from an organisational perspective, we've worked in terms of structuring value streams. We have executive sponsorship of each of these value streams that align to our objectives as an organisation. So, from a strategy portfolio perspective, where new demands come in, you know, what we really want to do is to target an understanding of the business, the impact value, using data in order to drive funding decisions to allocate resources to understand how it impacts architecture. Really, in this area where IT for IT is helping us is, again, the topic of how we use data in order to make sure that key information is available to decision makers to ensure that investments and funding and capital investment is allocated in the right area. When it comes to existing products, when it comes to allocating new features, safe on the pin by IT for IT, what we're really working on now as part of that broader shift from project to product is to work with our stakeholders on how to really balance, you know, incremental, short-term one-off asks from stakeholder groups, how do we balance that relative to our own or overarching strategic roadmap. And then, obviously, drive natural on how services are provisioned and then also from zero-touch operations in terms of, you know, I touched on that we, you know, a critical differentiate of what Vodafone offers is, you know, highly available services and making sure that we're operating effectively is absolutely huge and IT for IT really helps us tell that story. And ultimately summarizing, maybe summarizing, wrapping things up, getting to a point where we've gone from. So in terms of where we are today, so we've gone from a situation where we have had a large number of teams planning in isolation and also on occasion developing own tools and practices and processes. We've worked on an IT for IT to help us tell the story, to simplify and standardize around that. We've gone from sort of these platforms often being maybe second-class citizens to establishing internal engineering practice where we've insorted a vast amount of work ramped up from, you know, a very small function to quite a large function. For example, we're working to consolidate the number of portals, et cetera, et cetera, and we've established our IT for IT data lake. I'm jumping on to the final slide. So maybe, and maybe I've tried, I've done my very best to keep this very, very practical around how we've used IT for IT and I wanted to finish things up to talk about how do we get started. And I think this very simple slide sums things up quite perfectly. We, you know, instead of starting from scratch and establishing our own reference architecture, we opted to use IT for IT in order to get things going. We took a data-driven approach to assessing where our maturity is across a variety of areas and then we provided actionable insights and that together with our product team, we built the roadmap that drove a set of short-term improvements, quick wins in order to demonstrate immediate value, but it has also influenced what are probably four or five major portfolio epics in terms of our program backlog that we are building out now and will continue to build out. We're about a year into that journey and we reckon we have about a year or two left. What I would say is, and what I really emphasise is building on that sentiment, I don't want to suggest that we're done. I probably don't want to suggest that we're ever going to be done. Things are evolving and never evolving so fast. But what we're doing here and what we're doing with IT for IT allows us to constantly go back, reassess where we want it to be, use data to assess and whether we've achieved that, and again to revise and to re-baritise and refocus. So with that, I want to thank everybody. I appreciate your time and if you have any questions, either here or offline, please feel free to reach out to me. Thank you, Luke. I realise that trying to cover such a huge body of work in 15, 20 minutes is very, very difficult. But these slides will be available for people so you will get a chance to dig into those and obviously the recording too. So we're going to go to Q&A without wasting more time with me speaking. So joining us for Q&A in the familiar trademark jacket is Rob Eggershoek, who is the Senior IT Management Architect at DXC. He's also co-chair of the IT for IT Forum within the Open Group, which is the group that evolves and maintains the standard. In his day job, he helps IT organisations to transform and become a lean and agile service provider ready to manage the new digital ecosystem consisting of hybrid cloud and multi-vendor sourcing landscape. He's architecting the new IT organisation, combining standards, practices and concepts such as IT for IT, TogF scale, agile framework, DevOps and continuous delivery security management with established IT service management methodologies such as ITIL. A lot of the things that you heard Luke talk about, so that's obviously how Rob is involved here. So welcome, Rob. Thank you, Steve. Nice to be here. Quick, straight to a question for you, Luke. And it's really around governance, but there's a preamble. I understand that creating a holistic digital operating model across the end-to-end IT value chain is challenging, considering the various stakeholders involved. Can you explain more about how governance was set up and how important is the right governance model? Yeah, yeah, sure, absolutely. But I think, firstly, it's about communication and knowledge sharing. I don't necessarily pretend that I do that quite well, but large chunks of our organisation are aligned around this story and it's quite self-perpetuating at this stage, so that helps. But as a first protocol, Vodafone as part of our technology strategy, or Tech 2025, we have our tech guidance. And that is a very clearly published set of technology standards that guides investments. So that drives things in the right direction. How we've gone from 22 IT assistance to three is a big part of that, for example. In organising, structuring around our value stream, we've not quite adopted the IT for IT value streams and the box, we sort of hybrid between two and three. Our members, our executive leadership team, are effectively sponsors of those value streams. So everything that's happening from a strategy portfolio planning perspective are less, for example, are the key epic owners, if you will, of that value stream. At the same time, we have our target state, so we've done that material assessment. We have quite a robust data baseline of where we are and where we want to be. We, in our product roadmaps, in our conversations with our partners in the definition of our OKRs. On a regular basis, whether through PIs or broader portfolio planning, we're constantly trying to assess against data where are we tracking or against our objectives and using sort of leading lagging indicators to see whether we're making the right decisions or not. So it's quite a broad variety of levers that we use, but in between those, maybe four or five main instruments, that's how we're maintaining our overall travel direction. Great, okay, yeah, so important. Rob, if I can bring you in, we've heard in such a huge organisation, a great example of, let's just talk a bit about some of the benefits they've got from how they've used IT for IT. So you've experienced in helping other organisations, obviously. How can others get started with using this? There's so many things out there. How do we get started with IT for IT? Yeah, I think the photo phone case showed how photo phone is started. I think a very good example. You start with basically looking at your current state, using IT for IT to look what good looks like, assess your current state, co-create with different stakeholders, a kind of target state where you want to move to and then create a sort of transformation plan. And IT for IT really helps you to define, use it as an assessment tool where you are today, use it as a tool to define where I need to go to and then basically guide you in the transformation. So that is a good way of how to use IT for IT. Right. Get started. Yep. Okay. Let's you gather where you are and gives you a path forward. Yeah. Gathering that stuff. Yeah, because IT for IT as a reference model really can be used as a kind of assessment. Okay. What do I have in place? What is missing? Relate to data flows and value streams, the capabilities and then help you to basically look, get a better insight what we have today. And that's the last slide that Luke shows as well and then use it as a kind of guidance where how to what change and what phase and what step to go to a more integrated digital delivery model. Great. Okay. One of the things I'll come back to you Luke and maybe Rob you have a comment as well on this, but merging practices, there are different practices and standards that are out there. You mentioned a few, you know, ODA and obviously SAFE and DevOps approaches as well as IT for IT. How did the IT for IT standard help you merge these together Luke? I think sometimes it's much about storytelling, right? I don't think anyone, you know, maybe being able to link incidents and problems back to defects, you know, so that ops and DevOps teams can collaborate. I don't think anyone objects to that, right? But I think, you know, if I go into that diagram showing you if I mentioned this data, it's when you really go deep into that view relative to the number of services that we have, you know, when you're operating in a relatively federated nature with the working practices, trying to do that linkage is quite interesting. I talked, I usually talked about how when we started this week, 23.2 ITSM platforms were down to three. We would be down to one by the end of the year. But if you have multiple ITSM platforms with multiple team backlog, that would be great. It's an integration nightmare. It's a data-modic nightmare. It's a reporting analytics nightmare that there's, you know, where you start. And, you know, that type of, emphasizing that type of problem, really using data to talk about that. IT for IT sort of had just a tell a story and write actually, you know, again, we're not, we're not advocating something new. We're not advocating something unique to Vodafone here. We're talking about something that the industry that the major SIs, the major software vendors are advocating they're doing. This is what we need to do. Which ultimately, the confidence that a predefined framework, if you will, gave meant that it was far easier to push on what it was effectively became an open door. Right. Maybe I can add to that. Maybe I can add to that. I think organizations now realize they need to see it as an integrated system, a system approach from idea to production, all the feedback loops and to create a more integrated approach, like thinking about how do you connect all the parts. And in the past, we have like architecture practice with Toga development, all security risk and compliance with different practices. But IT for IT can bring all this practice together in a more integrated system, right? An integrated digital platform that enables the team to deliver better value and safer and sooner as Luke was also showing in his slides. Right. Yeah. Getting that flow going that we hear you sometimes sing about. Yeah. Make it flow. Yeah. Make it flow. That's great. Gentlemen, I could talk to you guys all day about this, but we'll, we need to wrap up in the interest of respecting everyone's time. But a huge thanks to you, to you both Rob for everything you continue to do in the IT for IT forum in the open group and Luke for joining us today and sharing Vodafone's experience. And as you said, you're not done yet. Maybe we'll never be done, but maybe we could we could hear another another time about how you what further progress has been made at some point. So let's stay in touch on that. We'd love to do that. Steve, thank you everyone. Yeah. So thank you very much for Luke Bradley and Rob Eggershoek. Thanks guys. So that's that's it for today's topic of folks. As I said at the at the beginning we are going to bring the regular Toolkit Tuesday to a close in two weeks time. It doesn't mean we won't be back doing special episodes and things like that. It's as I say, it's taken on a life of its own and it's been been such a great experience. And I think we hear great things about the value of some of these short and to the point talks and the presentations available afterwards. So I think it's been great to to wrap it up. We are going to do a slightly extended episode in two weeks time. So August the 15th where we will have a panel of our resident experts on the show to to deal with the topics that we have heard raised multiple times over them over the various episodes. So do please join us in two weeks time and get your questions ready early. If there's anything that's gone on from pretty much any episode then do let us know. And of course all of these are available or nearly all of them are available for you on the open group YouTube channel as well. So meantime thank you for joining us today. Thanks again to Luke and Rob for their insights and I wish you wherever you are in the world keep safe and well and hope to see you in two weeks time. I'm Steve Nunn this was Toolkit Tuesday.