 Hi. I'm Lonnie Grafman. Hi. Thank you very much. I came to Humboldt seeking an escape from violence and a way to have impact on my community. I didn't fit into society and I wasn't really sure I wanted to. I'm still not sure really. Here I found a community that was really patient with my differences and also helped me fit in just enough to start having an impact. Also here I found kindred spirits like penalties. That was two decades ago. We were both young and a little bit out there and for a brief moment we were both roommates in Namonia Gulch Sunny Bray. Since then I've had the reward of watching her grow. Watching her grow her impacts. Watching her grow her non-profits, sustainable nations, building straw bale homes and earthen plasters with photovoltaic systems with indigenous communities. Watching her grow her, yeah right? Let's clap for that. Watching her grow her beautiful family. Her pedigree, right? Doctor Penelope Stroes. Someday I'll get there. And also watching her grow into this new role as the director of the Indian Collective's Changemaker and Prize Fellowship, which I'm really excited for her to tell us about. In fact, you know, before we get started how many people just clap or yell if you know penalties personally? All right. How about if you're just meeting her for the first time and just for fun? How about everybody? Penelope is our second speaker in a series of speakers and workshops that are part of a competition, a new business model competition here in Humboldt County. I'm really excited to tell you more about it after the talk. But for now welcome back all the way back to Humboldt from sunny Tucson, Arizona. Doctor Penelope Stroes. I should have been down here. I heard people yell that they knew me. I'm like, what? Who's here? I'm so happy to see you and I can't wait to connect after the talk. Let me remember my talk now. First of all, I'll just introduce myself. As I said, my name is Penelope Stroes. My family is Anishinaabe. I'm an Anishinaabe descendant. My family is originally from the Great Lakes. But Yurok Territory raised me. I was raised in Trinidad, California and feel a lot of love and commitment. And my just heart is always going to be here as well. So currently I live in Tucson. My husband's from Tucson, Arizona. And so we're raising our kids in the desert. And then in the summer times, we go back to Anishinaabe country to Wisconsin. And we just rearranged our lives. So we're going to start to be able to spend significant time here every year to reconnecting with the land and people that grew me and maybe everything that I am today. So I'm very happy to be here. Thank you for the invitation, Lani. And I also, I have five children. Three of them were, you know, mostly raised here. One of them, Chetan, is back there. He's going to be my clicker today because our technology is in different locations. And so Chetan is going to, I'm going to be doing this now and again. And that's going to be my son clicking forward for me. So let me open up my notes. Oh my goodness. All right. I'm so excited to be here talking about this with you. So you can click it. All right. So this is how I feel. I feel like the colonial project failed. That might seem, it might feel awkward or maybe a little bit bitter because the colonial project obviously succeeded in so many ways. But the intention was to destroy what had been here and to take its place. As I hope everybody has the knowledge that people have gained already is that colonialism takes many forms. The most obvious part of colonialism is physical colonization when folks come over and take over your land and when genocide happens. But there's many other forms of colonization as well. So there's spiritual colonization. There's emotional and intellectual colonization. And there's also economic colonization. And all of these work together to attempt to oppress people. And I do want to say that I'm going to be speaking to sort of this very disparate like North American indigenous experience. But these, this colonial experience is impacted, is current, is happening all over the world right now. And it impacts us all. The reason why I use these two pictures is, you know, this, who has seen this image before? Yes. So that is a fine example of physical colonization. This is a pile of buffalo skulls, if you haven't seen this image before. Because it was US policy to kill as many buffalo as possible. Folks were encouraged to shoot them passing by on the trains so that they could have a better chance of exterminating the plains natives. So that was a very specific way of taking away a people's ability to provide for themselves. I'm sharing this story with you because context is critical. And history is critical. So this is the most famous image that represents that phenomenon. But just so you know, George Washington intentionally burned the seed houses of the Haudenosaunee people in the northeast. Over here in California, groves of oak trees were burned. So removing a people's ability to provide for themselves is a great way to dominate. But it failed. We're still here. We're still growing, having babies, passing on culture, bringing our cultures back, remembering our connection to our lands and each other, and rebuilding our economies, rebuilding our trade. And it is unspeakably beautiful. I can't see him, so I'm glad he can see me. So, a little awkward note situation going on. So I want to share a little bit about how my personal work has evolved into just sort of this interesting conversation about economy. So all economy means is how people provide for themselves. How you create what you need to live and thrive. How you trade it. How you distribute it. That's all an economy means. Economy and economics is not capitalism. It's not globalized exploitative capitalism. And to be honest, my personal belief is that economic systems are only as good as the values and responsibility and cosmologies that guide them. So you can take pure capitalism. You can take pure socialism. You can take pure communism. And you apply an exploitive, colonial, violent value set and cosmology to any of those economic systems. And then you have a violent economic system. And all of the systems that we function under today, our trade, our infrastructure, our transportation systems, our agriculture systems, all of the systems that, because of colonialism that we rely on today, are all expressions, all of these structures, like literally our physical structures that we engage in, in space and time, are shaped by this sort of violence and history of this colonial narrative. So we seek to flip that. And it takes a form of re-envisioning economies outside of capitalism. But I don't want to lean on that excessively because of what I just told you. Really, what it is is a return of economic thinking and systems thinking to our original values. And that's the work that I'm doing. And I think that work is being done in a lot of different places. Like, this is not just obviously an indigenous cultural thing, but my work is in our indigenous communities. So one of the things that I always draw folks' attention to is, you know, our traditional economies had several things in common. They were bioregionally focused, you know, provide as much as you can for your people within as close a range as possible, build good trade. They were also extensively networked. So there were trade networks running from all the way at the top of Turtle Island down to Chile to Alaska and over the seas. Traditional indigenous economies were highly networked trading systems. They were also, again, expressive of our values and cosmology and our beliefs. I'm going to return to that more deeply because, of course, to me, that's the critical piece. And then additionally, now, what I overlay as far as what we need to analyze is we need to be conscious of our sovereignty and our self-determination as political entities in this world. I'm sure that folks know that Native Nations are Native Nations. So we always have to be aware of that because that political, our political power is regularly, attempts are made to degrade and diminish it on a regular basis. So we always have to be very watchful and aware and conscious of that. And we also need to be intimately aware and speak out that we have to consider equity and justice in all aspects of all of our decision-making. So you can flip it. Yeah, so values and cosmology are the most important thing. So shared values, almost ubiquitously, as far as looking to the past and also contemporarily, is one thing that indigenous communities share whether you are indigenous to Africa, to Europe, to Asia, to the Americas. What all indigenous people who retain their cultures understand is that we live in, we have homelands that are alive and we live in relationship and we are intended to live in relationship to these homelands. So the meaning of that is very important. Because we have these homelands that we're intended to live in deep relationship to, we have a responsibility. Again, literally everything is about relationships. If you live in a homeland that is alive and when I say land, I also mean animals, I mean plants, I mean water, I mean, you know, the land to me when I say land means everything within the land is alive and you relate to it. And maintaining good relationships with this living land is what life is all about. This is what we are responsible for. We are responsible to live in good relationship and maintain good, healthy relationships with our living land and each other. So it's this code, this responsibility that you hold and you carry with you. So all of our choices, all of our system, our infrastructure, our economic choices all have to be made with these relationships in mind. In my tribe's creation story, very literally and physically, relationships create life. For us every, I'm not going to tell you the creation story, but literally everything is a song for us. Every universe, right? Literally for my tribe, everything is an actual literal song. It's this vibration that's being sent out, that's coming to be, it's emerging. And that what makes this plant different than me, different than you, it's relationships. It's the patterns, it's like we're a lake people. So, you know, the water drops, you threw a handful of pebbles in the lake and then you see the different ripples and the vibrations interact with each other in a different way. And it's those changes of the ripples of the pattern of the song that create the differences in all life. So basically in our lives, we can choose to make decisions and acts and say words and think thoughts that create harmonious music and create balance, create good relationships, or we can create discord. And so everything we do ideally, we strive to have everything we do create harmony and not discord. So it's like literally that physical for us. Yeah, so within every economic act, we also need to consider these relationships. Who's it going to impact? Is it going to impact my neighbor's kid? You know, how is this choice going to impact that grove of trees? How is that impact? How is this decision going to impact those huckleberries? Like, we got to make make good choices here. Yeah, so how do you how to live in good relationship? How do you do that? That's kind of a theory, you know, and it depends on who you are. Everybody has different relationships that they are responsible to. Everybody has different lands and peoples and families and and networks to live in good relationship to. So what are some, if I can think of, like how to tell people to have good relationships? Reciprocity, if you take, give back. There you go. If you take, give back to the land and each other. Be generous. Be generous with the land and each other. I, I got into a conversation with somebody that was convinced that greed and hoarding and taking was just human nature. You just are not going to be able, like, you need laws and prisons and police to stop the humans from hoarding and being greedy and taking too much. And, and I, I really profoundly disagree. I feel like the cultures that encourage hoarding are actually the minority. I feel like the majority of diversity of cultures in the world have, we have teachings that, that flipped that script within Anishinaabe traditional culture, for example, and I'm going to be leaning on sharing my traditional culture quite a lot because that's the only one that I can speak of, right? Your, how you're seen, your status, you know, in society is how generous you are. How, how much you give. And if somebody takes too much, there's so many stories of what happened when humans got out of balance and took too much and then chaos and challenges followed. And we're not the only ones that have those stories. So greed and hoarding are bad. I know it's funny that you got to say this, but in this world, like, it's, can you believe it? Like, can you, can you believe we actually have to say, like, it's like a bleeping revolutionary act that like hoarding is bad. Like, you couldn't really have too much of something that it actually, it's this whole economic system out of whack. I mean, I am so relieved that this is finally becoming a public conversation because I'm not 40 yet, but I'm going to be 40 soon. Kinda on November. I'm like rocking my, I'm, I'm 40 already. Like, but, um, like to even say that out loud, like you'd be called all kinds of names and like, oh, you're anti and being anti capitalist was such a problem. And it's just amazing. Like, and I, so I love to see the conversation. Y'all are like, y'all young people are pushing this dialogue where it needs to go. So thank you very much. In these times of climate change, like, I, so I put this picture up here because this is not a boy show for California indigenous folks. This is like coyote for us. Not a boy show is like the element of mistakes and change and challenge and issues and mischievousness and just illustrates that fact that nothing is predictable in life. But you can't predict anything. And if you pretend you can control things and if you, then you're going to cause some problems if you try to control things too much. You try to dam that big river and control that water flow. You're going to create a lot of toxics. You're going to create a lot of problems. Every, you try to control a human being. You try to control a group of human beings and make everything predictable. You're going to cause a lot of problems. So that's, that's who this guy is for me. And so in this perpetual change that has the power to teach and expand and push and deepen us, we need to be adaptable and constantly be learning. So now we're in this unfortunate position where we're having to learn a lot of things like very, very quickly because of climate change. We're going to have to upend a lot of these violent structures. And when I also, when I say violent structures, yes, I'm thinking about our current economic system. Yes, I'm thinking about our current way we get around, which is based on this sort of violent fossil fuel culture. But I also apply the same principles to our lives. Our relationships to one another, like our family relationships, our intergender relationships. So, you know, a lot of these things, it's, are based on the same phenomenon. So I'm, I speak about them all as one. We got to learn a lot real quick. And what is the ultimate source of knowledge? Our homelands. You know, the, the, the land, meaning the land and the elements and the spirits. Yes, I said it. And the creator. Yes, I said it. And there are things that are infinite inside you. There are things that are infinite. There was an infinite source of knowledge. And the ultimate source of knowledge in my belief is the land that can call us to those infinite places inside ourselves. And that is the real source of new knowledge. So for me, any kind of revisioning our economies has to begin with going out and for me, praying, meditating on the land, making sure that I recognize what plants are growing where, how they're growing, how they're changing. That, you know, anybody that harvests from the land knows this intimately, what I'm talking about. You witness and you watch and you relate. When you witness and you watch and you relate and you observe creatively with a living earth and all of her creatures, you're constantly learning new knowledge. And that isn't that, that new knowledge. That's what we need to re-vision our economic systems, especially as Indigenous people in my belief. So. Hey, thanks. You couldn't change it, babe. All right. So when I was young, okay, I just check my notes. Lonnie, what's my time? Beautiful. Okay, cool. Any of these things I can like talk about forever. So just, I also did not share something I wanted to share real quick, which is with us, our coming of age ceremony is a requiring of a youth to go out and engage and bring back new knowledge that's then reflected with stories, with old knowledge, with elder teachings with, you know, because it's that combination, right, of like the new and the creative and the different and the change with these foundations, with this foundational cosmology with this, like that dance, that's some power right there. That's some like visionary, powerful stuff right there. I want to make sure I didn't dishonor our elders by forgetting about them. So anybody that studied permaculture, ecological design or ecological architecture or taken Lonnie's class is probably or knows this, I'm sure. Can I get a call out if this feels really familiar? Okay. So yeah, so that's why I got a limb to it. I actually, I graduate, my master's is in engineering and the reason why it started off in physics and ended in engineering and I got so into all of those things because they're like our perfect reflections of like the culture and cosmology that I halt and I just felt amazing that dang these scientists are like, look at what these scientists are saying, holy, like they're they're really, it's all the study of creation, but like scientists just can't talk about the meaning. So you got to put it, you got to put in your own like wisdom there, you know, but the study of creation is beautiful. So yeah, mere natural principles and processes. If anybody wants to, I've dug into this, I actually did my master, my PhD on this. Intimately, I'm going to use some academic term. My PhD dissertation was biocultural engineering design. Should I say that again? Biocultural engineering design, because academia. But because the integration is really beautiful. So and so I have like so much resources on how our traditional architecture and how our traditional economics and how our traditional governance is critical reflected this. So anyone wants to, you know, get that from me, fun, fun, fun college students, let me know, or not, or fun other people that might be interested in that kind of thing. Yeah, learn from the earth. There you go. Had to throw this up here if you haven't seen this already. For real. Okay, you can click it, babe. Okay. So also real critical value. Cooperation and collaboration is always better than competition. I know that I'm speaking for a competition. But you know what I'm talking about though, don't you? It's true. Read that. You watch the nature documentaries and then that talk about and the competition. And you know, and have you ever noticed how the nature documentaries, which I adore, they always talk about conquering, like you have conquered the blah, blah, blah, blah, like I these. Okay, but it's a cool show. So like, we're so accustomed to the language and the thought processes of colonialism. It's wild. So I just anyway. And also this this one boundaries. Here's like an indigenous knowledge piece and value piece that when I actually was teaching at HSU because I taught at HSU for five years was always a challenge for for so many people that boundaries are critical for regenerative practices. Boundaries are critical for good family relationships. Boundaries are critical for good for building good relationships. Remember, the only important thing in our value system to remember is be a be a good relative. But if you come across folks that are challenged by the notion of boundaries, because boundaries have been used to oppress them, be empathetic, right? But I do always feel the need to explain how and what boundaries are healthy. And that we really need to think and analyze. You know, we're all impacted by we're all impacted by boundaries that have been oppressive, because they've been tools of violence. But we need to really question what what what is our intent to pursue whatever we're pursuing and what boundaries are appropriate and are critical to keeping good relationships with the earth and ourselves and our families and our relationships. Boundaries are important. Okay, babe. All right. So now we're getting we're getting out of the these are like values as well, but more into just sort of the structure of how of the values and the intentions and the philosophy that guides everything we do at sustainable nations and Indian. So self determination, no decision can be made that diminishes our nationhood rights or political power or degrades our land base. Critical. Okay, you can change it, but equity and justice. So the people impacted by systems of injustice must be the ones to lead the way to justice. Even if you don't agree with their techniques or the speed at which they're doing so, that doesn't matter. The people most impacted by systems of injustice have to be the ones to lead the way to justice or else it's not going to be a complete justice. So we believe that very deeply. Community must be engaged and invest in they need to be invested in whatever is going on and they need to be invested in. So we're designing this amazing new culturally based community and we're outreaching the people to build the knowledge and build the value set and build the visions that's going to create this new community. Well, if the moms of young children aren't able to come because there's not childcare, if the people that don't have cars can't make it because it's far away or if it's like, no, it's the responsibility of leadership and the folks that are facilitating these things to make sure that folks that need to be there are there and that whatever needs to be done, even if it takes another six months to get the project done, it's worth it. There needs to be mechanized. There needs to be systems of accountability in all aspects, accountability, the community accountability to each other, accountability to the vision. There needs to be in any project design or cool thing you're doing. There needs to be ways of mediating and problem solving and ultimately responsibility. Again, back to the most important thing is good relationships. So accountability is critical. And local decision making. So click. So how do we do this? So I'm sharing you pictures of some of my favorite people and actions and cool stuff. So we can move on. What does this look like? Time check real quick. So I'm going to kind of blow through some of these because I actually really want to get to end the end. So what does this look like? You can apply these principles and practices to small and very, very large scale, small scale, a little brief, little quick example of sustainable nations. When we went when sustainable nations rerouted and went to Tucson, it took us about four years to build enough solid and trusted and nurtured relationships to even begin practicing work there. I sat in ceremony and worked my butt off in community and earned trust and did a lot of consulting for the local tribes before I ever told anybody that I had this nonprofit. Because that's really important. Then when we did tell, we came out of the closet. We had a few dinner parties like to announce, Hey, we actually have this organization. It's a tool to be used this 501C3. And do you think it would be useful in this area and how? And folks were, you know, housing, we want to learn and relearn and rebuild our adobe housing and water rainwater. And so then we did a lot of cool stuff. I'm going to skip through it. Click, click, babe. Click, click, click, click, click, click, youth, youth, click, click. Okay, mid scale. I want to uplift my friend, well, Hala Johns, dinner woman. She started an organization called native renewables. Check them out. They are, they do intensive training. And they kind of do what sustainable nations that they do, they do intensive training and professional development, but specifically in renewable energy. And, and then install solar. And they have financing mechanisms to allow people to afford this solar. All across Navajo nation. They're also not abandoning people with their solar systems, which is, which was a mistake that was kind of made earlier in the first iteration of these attempts at community solar in these far flung, super rural locations, like we install a solar, we teach folks how to use them. And then, but then like 10 years later, and the batteries need replacing and nobody can afford that. So what do you do? So their entire program is designed to meet those needs, respond to their needs. They're doing it brilliantly and at scale for Navajo. It's beautiful. Great. Okay. A little bit larger scale. And there's, let me just say, I'm sharing like, I'm only able to share a few examples with you. There's so many. When we started in 2004, doing training and project development and built to consulting and like we felt like we were the only ones. And this is happening all over the place now. And it's so wonderful. This is Winona's place when on all the Duke, who knows who Winona the Duke is. Yay. So she's all that she's an issue now as well from White Earth. Their organization, they have a billion things going on, but they have a hemp farm. Check them out. The Anishinaabe and the Anishinaabe Indigenous Hemp Conference just tap into there. And they have Anishinaabe Marketplace where folks from the community trade. They also are building solar thermal panels right now. It's technique that not everybody knows about, but solar heating. This is Minnesota. It's cold. So they actually opened up a manufacturing facility recently, building solar thermal panels. It's called Eighth Fire Solar. A little plug. Look, I'm up. Okay, you can click it, babe. Larger scale. Blue Lake Rancheria is rocking it. They're inspiring people all over the world. I know that there's I know that there's other cool work happening here in Humboldt and Trinity counties that I don't know enough about to speak to. But there's been like these are some of the projects that I've worked on. Kayawakpala is a 600 acre culturally and spiritually designed and developed native community in Rosebud, Rosebud, South Dakota. The Klamath tribes up in Oregon are planning a whole like systematic like regenerative economy that they we did in strategic planning for them on without going through it. I mean, Thunder Valley Economic Development Corporation is also another indigenous regenerative community being built out under a community development corporation. And there we have tribal green building codes. So tribes don't have tribes can develop their own codes. You can develop codes that are not based on punishing and directing, but codes that are really this is the model for what we want all tribal housing to look like. And here's the code for it. And so Panolival Pomo was actually a tribe that was really, really led that their tribal housing prototype is strawberry. It's a round straw bale house with ecological wastewater and composting toilets. And we put in a constructed wetland for them. And, you know, they're just moving it and doing really good things. So folks are folks are applying these at larger and larger scales now. So let's and really, really, really, really, because all of these projects have come to fruition on unconscionable levels of work and partnership building and, you know, hours and hours of heartbreaking tears and struggle. So we need to figure out how to create means and mechanisms for the decolonization of wealth. Let's really start talking about this. So let's change and I will blow through this Lonnie. Am I? Oh, good. I can tell stories about everything. So thank you. We can flip it. All right. So a friend of mine. Now I work with ending. I step back to the Board of Sustainable Nations, because the ending collective is so exciting, because that's basically what it is and what it's working on. I can tell you all the story about how ending collective came to be during our meet and greet, if you'd like. But basically, ending collective is a vehicle to decolonize wealth. Yeah, no, it's pretty, it was very exciting. Our platform is Defend Develop Decolonize. And it actually came, I can tell you a brief thing about how it came about. Nick Tilson, our ED, I've known for quite a long time. He was the director of Thunder Valley on Pine Ridge, the community that was developing as a CDC, a community development corporation. And Nick found himself talking to and lots of people that were the benefactors of like this incredible amount of like the benefactors of globalized capitalism, like folks that have the purse, hold the purse strings to unconscionable amounts of money, people in organizations, and that want to change, you know, said as somebody from, you know, not a wealthy family, like I used to see rich people as these, you know, not quite human, like, and just feel a lot of anger. And then I started meeting more of them. I'm like them. They're people too. And a lot of them want systems change. A lot of them want systems change and a lot of them. So what happens when you hold a lot of money is nobody tells you the truth. And you're surrounded by yes men all the time. And yes, women all the time. And so a lot of these folks, they, you know, a lot of they live in a bubble of their wealth. And some literally, I've had people say, like, how do I invest this million dollars to do system change? How do I, you know, I'm like, I do realize what we've done on with $5,000. Holy, oh, my goodness. And so basically, there are our ed found himself in a lot of those positions and with people wanting to invest. So thus was birth ending collective to move radical decolonial systems change through a couple of mechanisms. So you can click it. We have a philanthropic arm, follow us in this in the media's and check out our website. We're brand baby new. We haven't launched our official grant making program. We have been moving grant money already, even though we're not official, I would love to share our future grant making program because it's going to be like nothing that's happened before it's going to be geared towards actual sustainability. We also are launching a fund and a development program. So this fund is designed to invest significant amounts of resource into indigenous, decolonial, regenerative businesses, organizations, nations, projects, development work, infrastructure change. Yeah. Um, blended capital. So what blended capital means is that we aren't just investing. We're investors and we actually and we can be business partners even. But we also will help find grants, help find other loans, help facilitate and network with any state relationships or federal relationships, we were will work with your vision and help put together funding packages because that's what really moves these big projects, particularly at ending country. And also, you know, help connect people with legal resources and all of the critical things in all of these topics. So we can click it. So we're guided by resilient and regenerative financing principles. We have so hit me up or go to our website. We have our indigenous economic principles that are the philosophy of what we fund and how we fund that I love to share with you. I was like, I'm going to print them off and give them well in the office, they were like, print them off and give them to everybody. And I was like, Oh, God, yeah, no. But we have them. So connect with me if you want to read our indigenous environment, indigenous economic principles. If you want to read our resilient and regenerative finance principles, if you're a money person and are wondering how does that work? Hit me up. We got those to share. They're all based on the values I was sharing before. So you can move it forward. We are really quick. We are currently building a toolkit for folks and for tribes and travel communities in some of the deeper layers of how to pull these things off and what it's about. We just made our first loan just as an example. And we're actually if you all know of like a really amazing native indigenous business idea project that needs support, like talk to me. I'd love to share where we're at in our process of lunch. But we just invested in a large scale, like a large scale renewable energy project, set up like a B Corp, a benefits corporation. We just gave them like a six figure loan. We also have an ownership stake in the company. We basically have, you know, we are we are solid partners and technical development and technical assistance connections. So start to finish partnerships. This partnership started with deep connection, a lot of prayers together, a lot of deep relation building work. And that is what's enabling. That's what we believe enables success because we've seen it in the past. So I can't wait to share more about it. I'm so enlivened to be part of this organization. You can flip it, babe. Flip it again. Our new office as a model is fun. So this is this is what it's about. This is my little baby wassia. This is what it's about for us. Decolonize the land, the wealth, reconnect to the land, rebuild our economies. Let's do this. So yeah. Did that resonate with you? You said so many things that I not only want to like, just repeat over and over again, but it's going to make it into our literature review about the competition that's coming up. But I guess I should say that I'm the director of the awesome business collaboration, not the awesome business competition. We're just changing the we're changing the name, changing the website. No, that's that's still the website. And we can, and we can follow up with those with the materials that penalties was promising, we can send if you sign up on the mailing list, I'll make sure to get those sent out. So a couple quick things on the competition. And then penalties is going to be over here for a meeting greet. And then we'll have Kevin, Kevin, can you stand up? Where are you in this room? Okay, you can talk to Kevin. Hi, Kevin, we're clapping for you. You can go talk to you can go talk to him about the competition. A few things I want to say, when you say that we need to flip the script on on economics and that economics is only as good as our relationships and our values. That's the competition we're building here, right? We're going to do that together. There's the one of the reasons that the competition is still really vague is that we're collecting feedback from you so that we can build it together. And then starting, we have our next presentation at the end of April, and then in May, we're going to start workshops together. And then the competition itself won't start until fall. And so, August, September, we'll be working together to build up each other's companies. And then and then at the end in November, we'll have 10 companies, hopefully all winning money. And the top prize is going to be at least $3,000. We hope to give out like $20,000 in prizes. We don't have any of that money yet. So if you have that money, you can give it to me, I'll be over there. I'll be over there. In order to do that, please spread the word. Our next talk is going to be April 28. We'll send it out on the mailing list. I want to give a special thing to our sponsors, HSU, Blue Tech Valley and the Small Business Development Center. Thank you. Thank you all for coming. A really quick aside, I got I got to tell you, you know the cake up, like by Currig below? Okay, you see you already know, right? When you were talking, I was I was reminded how much I love running this competition in humble because we've we already have the values, right? There's this thing called innovation that San Francisco and Silicon Valley see that just isn't the right definition of innovation. They see innovation as anything that can make money. Innovation is anything that makes the world a better place. And we're going to do that together. Thank you for your time.